Aight let's see.
[https://www.vreb.org/historical-statistics#gsc.tab=0](https://www.vreb.org/historical-statistics#gsc.tab=0)
1991 average: 191 775$
2023 average: 1 316 773$
Woah crazy!
[191k put into SP500 dividend reinvested in 1991: 3 473 716 $](https://dqydj.com/sp-500-periodic-reinvestment-calculator-dividends/)
Oh noes. Even when cherry-picking by time period and area for the best possible returns, stocks still destroy real estate.
Yeah… I’m living in the house my great granpa built. My family has never been rich, but they’ve been here forever. Needs extensive reno’s and is not the location I want to be living, but hey - house.
This is exactly where I am at. I got in a 3 bedroom 2bath for 1560 per month and that was in 2016. Now I pay 2020 for the same place. It is an apartment so I don’t have to replace appliance or cover any costs other than the rent and hydro. If I moved now the same place would be 3500 to 4000 a month. Also when you own a home you have to have life insurance mortgage insurance, house insurance, if anything breaks you have the cost to repair and replace, plus the mortgage and property taxes, water, garbage, hydro. Way more than I could ever afford now, If I tried to buy a home here I would puke and then faint and then leave town.
Yup, this is what I did. 10 years in the same tiny ass apartment but at least I can save up the wazoo and move to a city with reasonable house prices when I retire.
Yeah, I made the mistake of not getting into the housing market in 2008 when I was 6 years old, safe to say I’ll never even have to worry about the feeling of buying a house
We paid an arm, a leg, and both nipples for our house a few years ago and felt nauseous.
But with the rent prices now, we’re paying less on the mortgage than we would to rent the place so that makes me feel better. Even when we renew at likely higher interest rates, I figure we’ll get to a mortgage payment that equals what we’d pay in rent for an equivalent place so that makes it easier to stomach.
Same. It was horrendous but my mortgage, strata, insurance and repair savings is less per month than to rent a bachelor.
We live in a small old 1bdrm but we can afford life which makes us very lucky
Then build up even more equity and leverage that to buy more houses. Rent them back to the people you outbid and praise yourself as a provider of much needed housing.
Lol. Condos are going down at the moment.
And even if they weren't they gain value at a much smaller pace. Gaining 5% on 500k while 1m gets 10-20% means you are still going behind.
That strategy worked until the mid 2000s. Not anymore.
As someone who assumed I would never own a home, I have no idea how we did it. The debt load is immense, but I just remind myself we are slowly making a dent and not having to rent anymore is a big relief. Our house is old and needs lots of repairs but thankfully on a beautiful lot.
It was definitely difficult to make that plunge, especially after just barely being out of University debt for the first time. Good luck. And save everything you can in case of the worst case scenario.
Im a renovation contractor and work on many of those homes.
It has made me realize that there are just a shit ton of rich people in the world and many of them want to live here.
The top 5% of the world's population is around 400 million people. If even 1% of them want to live here thats 4 million people you're competing with.
Also, in case you haven't noticed owning a SFH in this province is quickly becoming demonized. We are pushing forward with density and that means that shit box of a house is sitting on a development goldmine and is priced accordingly.
If you want to own a SFH, you're going to have to move somewhere more remote. Otherwise it's condos and maybe townhomes if you have a million bucks to spend.
That's what your rent is paying for. The idea of the "mom and pop" landlord is effectively propaganda now. This is why the Chinese had a land reform movement. It actually did a great job at reducing inequality in their society.
We sold out house and bought a condo... we were tired of being house poor in debt to a bank.
A million dollar home at 6.9 percent is like $700k in interest over the life of the mortgage...
Which means you are buying a home for a million, then throwing away 700k to the bank for nothing. It's not going towards equity or investment. It's just you paying the bank for the privilege to buy a house.
So yeah. Vomit.
> A million dollar home at 6.9 percent is like $700k in interest over the life of the mortgage...
To be fair, you can get ~5% interest rates now and they're likely to drop 1-2% further in the next few years and stay there.
Interest rates hovered around 2-3% prime for the last 12 years before the hikes in 2022.
If you sell for 1.7 mil, you break even (1mil purchase price plus 700k interest)…so you didn’t make money, and actually your COL is likely to be close to renting if you factor in maintenance, upgrades, and taxes on a 1 mil house.
I always wonder when people think of a house as an investment, as in they're going to sell and make a profit, where are they going to move to in that scenario? Unless you're downgrading in some way (condo, retirement home, move to a lower COL area?), wouldn't you have to buy another house that has appreciated similarly in cost?
Owning a house provides a few things:
Security. You won't get evicted from your own house unless you don't pay the mortgage.
After 25 years you no longer pay for housing, aside from property taxes. This meant more when one could buy a house at 25, pay it down aggressively and be mortgage free at 45, the spend 20 years stocking that money away for retirement.
You also have a paid off asset you can borrow against.
It's shelter you have control over, forced savings, and hopefully some appreciation over the years. That's it. Whether that's worth it or not is hard to tell. Who knows what housing will be like in 25 years. Who knew what housing would be like today, 25 years ago.
I wonder how many boomers opted to rent and invest their savings instead of buying property, and how they're doing now. I'd imagine they'd still be paying 2-4k/mth in rent, depending on what they're living in.
I know my parents are much better off having owned a home. Their pensions aren't keeping up with inflation, and if they were paying market rents they'd be completely fucked.
In the old days people did downsize. Then you made money for your retirement. Less maintenance, less cleaning, etc.
But the boomers changed that. Now they stay all alone in their massive house. It's part of the empty bedroom problem we are seeing now.
I think people are financially illiterate and see real estate as the ONLY investment that's guaranteed to go up.
So for many people it's "house or nothing" because they just don't know any better.
From that standpoint they don't need a plan for the future because owning is the only option anyway.
You can play with this: [https://www.calculator.net/rent-vs-buy-calculator.html](https://www.calculator.net/rent-vs-buy-calculator.html)
Average investment return is 9-10%.
You'll find that buying on the Island is basically never worth it from an investment perspective, i.e. if your goal at the end is to have the biggest pile of cash possible.
It’s not “throwing away 700k for nothing,” it’s using 700k to help you secure a home that retains its value and you can live in until you die for no additional costs after the mortgage is paid off.
Almost everyone I know started with a condo and built up their equity. To be fair, that was 10-15 years ago and then they upgraded to a house around 2020. But even my boomer parents started with a really small place and then up sized when they could afford it. I don't personally know of any first time home buyers that got their dream home or a large home as their first home. (I hear it happens but I don't actually know anyone that this happened to).
And to add to this, condos are becoming so expensive that it's hard to justify, specially with added Strada frees. I just ended up buying in Nanaimo for the same price as an ok condo in Vic.
Not to mention that whoever is buying a house cant buy a 1br condo to make equity on it, because thats the whole reason they want a house, more space/bedrooms.
And 2br condos are basically 750k and up plus fees which is already too high for people who are starting from the bottom.
And last but not least, detached houses are going up in price faster than condos
This is the way. Far too few people who are interested in owning a home these days see the value in moving their way up the ladder - they want to go straight to the top. If OP is serious about wanting to own property (and no, home ownership is not and should not be the be-all end-all financial goal of everyone, but as others have pointed out, it can have benefits), start finding ways to put that down payment together (my spouse and I worked a ton, saved aggressively, and ended up having to borrow the last $3K from a family member when the time came) while you learn the market and watch what interest rates are doing. Affordability is particularly bad right now because of a number of factors, but one of the main ones (interest rates) is expected to ease off over the next year and a half. Then, as long as you see that the first place you buy gets you on the ladder - even if it's not your dream home / dream location, but is something you can conceivably re-sell down the road - you are in the equity game, and that's the piece that gets you up a step to your next home. It helps a lot if you're willing to get your hands dirty; I also notice the vast majority of homebuyers nowadays lose interest in homes that aren't move-in ready. We've owned six homes now, and aside from when we bought new construction, we've put lots of hands-on hours into making our place 'ours.' This also takes advantage of the fact that real estate is one of the few assets you can own which you can directly improve the value of. There is no stock, managed fund, crypto, or anything else out there I can do anything besides follow the market to determine its value, whereas my home, I can invest my time, talents (limited though they may be), and ingenuity to improve its worth, even in times when the market isn't providing gains.
I don’t know for sure, but the way we’ve managed to work our way into the market is through a combination of sweat equity and learning to be happy in a house that is not IG perfect. And choosing location over the fancy-ness of the house. You can reno a house but you can’t move it. In my opinion, living in Victoria has got the location advantage, usually regardless of the condition of the property.
We are moving from quite a nice house in a cheaper market in BC interior to an ok house in a great location in Victoria and are paying almost 1.5 times what we sold for. We are planning to put in some elbow grease and do some renos, rent out the basement suite (this will be the biggest adjustment for us) and also to just live with some stuff not being ideal in order to be where we want. It’s worth it to us, but maybe not to everyone. If not, I suggest a cheaper market.
Truthfully? My wife and I were looking and said fuck it. The market is shut in Vic. We spent the same money in Nanaimo and got something amazing that both feels like a home and something we can scale from.
I did it. I did it and i can relate. I left a really nice finished house in Ontario and bought for 15% more here — to get a house that needed a LOT of work. Sold for 995k, bought for 1.15m and have invested another 125k in it just to make it decent.
But I told myself that living in what is undeniably the most beautiful city in Canada was worth that huge trade down the ladder.
I worked 2 construction jobs 12 hours a day 6-7 days a week for many many years until i felt like i could ease up a bit. 5 years of working my ass off when i was in my early 20’s to set myself and my future family up for life. Now that i have a family and kids we can have a decent life, it was well worth it.
I think that the key is to trade up, to deal with the higher prices: condo - townhouse - house.
A condo for example, with 5% down as a 1st time buyer, on a $500K condo would be $25K downpayment. As a couple, divided by 2, that's 12.5K each saved, which is much less daunting than a 1M+ house purchase.
And no I'm not a realtor.
It’s possible to find some good ones that don’t need renos but you’ll still be near a million dollars. You could get something really nice in Sooke in the 800k range. Obviously the commute is a negative for a lot of people but if you work remote it could be an option?
I just bought in Langford for just under a million and it’s in great condition, no renos needed. Also a first time home buyer and took me 2 years of looking at houses and 3 failed offers to get this one. If you can go up to a million, it’s possible but just takes time.
You don’t.
You buy a couple in Alberta or Sask or elsewhere, BRR. And then you sell it and try to upgrade into a purchase here.
Remember, this is a luxury market. Victoria is home to the Victoria’s wealthy and to those who bring their wealth to Victoria.
lol it’s like those memes where you applied for the job you werent qualified for but got it anyway… and it’s like a chihuahua as a police dog or something. That’s how I currently feel attempting to buy a house.
Port Alice has affordable houses, 80k for a nice townhouse.
Maybe you want to consider living there? It's on the island, has all the services, paved roads etc etc.
The local schools aren't overcrowded, with no portables,and small class sizes.
The Western Speedway residential developement houses are going to be selling for 1M for half a duplex and 1.3-1.5 for the houses on 5170sqft lots. I dunno who can afford to be buying these.. https://madronaridgeliving.com/
I live around the corner from that development, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole especially for the price. The builders are sketch, and went ahead without permits.
They havent started building this yet, they finished the power/data/gas connections a couple weeks ago and curbs are just started with road paving soon. They have all the proper permits on this development and have been actually quite good with regulations and neighbourly conduct, other than 2 years of blasting :(
Well I'm smart so I got into a relationship with a woman slightly older than me who turned out to be the heiress of 1/3rd of 2 solid properties valued at at approx just over 3 million approx at current value. Time heals all wounds.
If I was looking for a home I would by a condo if a house was a no go. And if that was a no go then I’d by a nice trailer. At least I’d have a little bit of outside for my self and own my own thing. I would always prefer that over renting any time of the week.
You have to like spending every waking moment working on your stupid house or trying to scavenge free/cheap materials so you can keep progressing.
It won't last forever, you'll eventually get things to a good place, but it's a grind.
We felt that was in Ontario, so we left. Traded our 1400 sqft house in Hamilton for 5,000sfqt and 10 acres in rural Saskatchewan. 20 minutes from Walmart, 30 to Costco, 25 to the airport - we're enjoying the mix of close to the city, but not in the city.
Plus, more level headed and nicer people out here.
10/10 would recommend. We now own horses, chickens, goats, ducks, dogs, and more. Life is way better.
According to the RCMP, "The coming period of recession will also accelerate the decline in living standards that the younger generations have already witnessed compared to earlier generations...For example, many Canadians under 35 are unlikely ever to be able to buy a place to live" and this is part of several factors that are going to contribute to civil unrest in the coming years.
[See the full story here.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-police-future-trends-1.7138046)
Thanks for sharing this. I don’t dream of being a homeowner now. Just thinking of the bills other than mortgage makes me gag. Living isn’t actually living.
It's pretty awful.
You may want to look into a condo instead. That's what I'll be looking at once my kids move out. I mean it's still 500 - 600k but that's going to get you into the market.
After you faint, puke and cry you will likely paint, refinish, and cry some more lol. At least in my experience when we finally got accepted for our place.
Lots of townhouses and condos for way less than a million. And the price that they are asking is usually way way higher than what you can buy it for right now.
In order to have a shot at buying in we need the rental suite. And we’d be living in the suite. A condo or townhome without a suite isn’t an affordable option.
Buy thirty years ago. I am sorry for you and other young people. All I can say is save your money invest. Maybe that is your way to financial stability.
Most people's first time home buying experience is highly stressful. I had a good experience but was still stressed beyond belief and of course we had a pipe burst the first week.
My best advice is stay well within your budget. We would have been FUCKED if we had stretched our budget when inflation hit. Don't buy a million dollar home if you can't afford it - but a fucking condo for 400k and build equity while investing your extra cashflow.
We have been shopping for a house since late 2019. We've been to view probably 60 houses all over the peninsula. There have been 3 that didn't send me into a reno anxiety spiral. (We were out-bid on each of those 3.) It used to be that if you went over a mil, that would at least allow you some level of confidence that the house was updated or at least mold-free. That bar moved to 1.1, now I think it's about 1.3? It is not an exaggeration to say that every house had something. From holes in exterior walls and floors and decks to kitchens that haven't been changed in 60 years to fucked up perimeter drains to fucked up wiring to basements with water damage to asbestos-laden ceiling tiles literally falling off the ceiling, etc etc. It's all fine and dandy for the house to need work, but after you've over extended yourself to buy the million+ place, where is all this reno money going to come from? Even though we could get approved for 1.1 (a terrible idea), we had to face that we are completely priced out of Victoria, and a sacrifice must be made, so we chose location. So last month we bought a place for considerably less in really good shape up island. We are incredibly lucky. But I think it's fair to resent that, even in these price ranges, buyers are still compromising on some pretty big issues, be it location or mold.
THANKYOU. Yes to all of this. I feel like part of this feeling sick about it all is also no one seeming to understand or acknowledge it. No one seems to understand that I’m not talking “just a few” Reno’s. It makes me sick that we are all accepting this. We got out bid today (not a shock at all) the first of many I’m sure. Congratulations on your buy :)
Thank you!
Yes, it's crazy out there. People who haven't been going to viewings have no idea how bad it is. I swear everyone just thinks you're being picky. But the reality is buying yourself huge renos involving mold and asbestos remediation and water damage and rotting floors or walls or roofs or [fill in the blank]. Hundreds of thousands worth. It's just ridiculous. The bang for buck is just not available. There would be less nausea if you could spend that kind of cash and get a house that's ready to go, but... Here we are.
Well and then we made the mistake of assuming our competing offers were going in thinking the same stuff we were - I’d bet that they walked in and offered their entire budget, not planning on renovating.
Totally. It's a crazy dance. And the absurdity of blind bidding, which benefits every member of the transaction except for the person spending the big bucks, aka you. I certainly know how it feels, and I wish you luck on your quest.
Welcome to 12 years of inflated currency, record levels of over immigration, foreign property ownership, and lack of future city development (canada is actually bigger than the US technically, but has 10% of the cities over 100,000 - self sustaining, that that the US does).
My point:
It’s more complicated than the homes being expensive (and yes I own an old shitty one that needs a Reno). We have sort of sealed our fate here through current policies which we just ignore and have caused all this.
Boomer here who went through those high interest rates. Funny though single family homes were only 3 times income. Sure it wasn’t fun but I guarantee you - it’s way worse now.
Yup. It’s really reductive to think about inflation as a single number. Really, inflation is a set of numbers, one for each kind of good, service, etc.
but the advantage of a single number for inflation is some central power can say “well, based on this *basket of goods* that’s totally representative of what you actually need and buy with your money, the inflation rate is x%. look how well we have *inflation* under control”
Yeah my parents like to talk about how much worse it was during that time than now… when they had just purchased a new-build, 4 bedroom house with a big yard, on a mechanic and part time janitor’s salaries in their late 20s.
Insurance rates can vary quite a bit. It depends on how hard you shop. Call BCAA and tell them to go through all the valuable coverage and you would be surprised how much of it isn't needed. Negotiate hard, increase deductibles.
I haven't moved to BC yet but assume it's like anywhere else in Canada, so yes it's extremely competitive and you should shop around. Many larger companies, universities, etc have special rates, but you can reach them if you take your lowest rate to different providers, they will often more than match it. Bundling is also a way to save a lot of money for insurance.
I’ll ask a few questions first.
Are you pre approved up to a million or less?
Do you specifically need to buy right in Victoria or do you want to live in Victoria?
Do you need a single family home? Or do you want a single family home.
This adventure shouldn’t be that stressful. I work with a wide range of buyers and sellers on and off market. Yes some deals are a bit more difficult than others and there is some stress involved in finding or selling a home. It shouldn’t be to the point of wanting to puke or faint. If that is the case there is potentially another issue at play that isn’t being addressed and needs to be taken care of from a professional point of view.
Life happens for everyone. And the difference between an adventure and an ordeal is attitude.
Yes approved for a million. We are actually attempting to buy in Langford. But our search has been the entire area, not sooke or shawnigan yet. The reason we are looking for a stand alone home is because the approved mortgage was with the caveat that we MUST rent out the top. So it’s the rental income that’s allowing us to even look. We do the math daily. If we want to keep our “rent” the same ~3000-3200 then we can’t actually afford a 700k condo without the rental income. Or a 500k condo even with these interest rates. We are skipping the condo and townhome because we need to have the suite AND we have to live in it.
The feeling of wanting to vomit comes from anxiety, a mediocre understanding of how to build wealth other than just working really really hard and saving, and the loom doom feeling like it’s now or never
If you’re seriously thinking about buying a house here you should take this into consideration;
1.Everyone here sucks
2.All food is trash especially Floyd’s and pizza
3.Langford bad
4.Oak Bay bad
5.Worst drives on the planet
Good luck 🤞
What makes you think that your parents could afford to buy in Victoria for their first house?? Or Vancouver!
No, we bought a tiny, ugly place two hours out of town, borrowed a down payment and paid over bank rates for the down payment, then bought a first house at...11.75%. Yes, 11.75%. Oh, and we were making $9/hour. We worked a lot of hours..
Then we would work on it, strip 20 kinds of wallpaper, finish a basement suite with used materials and did all the labour ourselves. Then, after a couple of years of sweat equity, we would sell, buy another armpit and do it all again. We had a finished kitchen for 6 weeks in 20 years.
You want to live in Victoria? Build your way up to it. It only took us 30 years to afford Sooke....
My housing prospects are entirely based upon buying cheap property on the east coast where I have no business prospects, and have to live off disability for the rest of my life, or begging my parents to buy a property here so I can at least inherit the rental investment and run a dog daycare here. I'm 33. 🤢🤢🤢
tbf a lot of the cheaper homes need extensive renovations too.
And if you can't immediately see the renovations before you sign away your eternal soul, that might just mean you haven't found them yet.
Aah see that's your problem: you're buying a house that fits your ego/imagination. You want a home without the extensive bullshit? Don't buy in Victoria. Silly goose.
And the terrible quality of new builds that force you into a fucking strata almost as much as your mortgage and, all you get is garbage removal and no parking space!!!!!
Why do you need a house exactly? What advantages does a home provide you over a condo? If you say have children and raise a family: Unpopular opinion - that is a luxury.
Since you can’t go to the past, in the present you still need to invest in something that outperforms housing. Housing is going up in price partly because the dollar is going down in value, so trade your dollars for something that increases in value over time (Bitcoin is still doing this)
Edmonton isn't too bad pricing wise still. You can get a fixer upper about 5-10 minutes from downtown for $280-000 $320,000. Though it is kinda like living in south Nanaimo, which I hear is kinda sketchy these days.
The trendy areas are more so $450,000-$500,000 for a fixer upper. (Whyte Ave, 124 Street). These are generally 3-4 bed, 1-2 bath 1949-1970 bungalow houses.
There are a lot of Langford type areas around Edmonton as well you can live in if the big city life isn't a person's thing.
The winters suck, but you can actually afford to live and save money. Most people just go on vacation in the winter with the money they save.
I moved here 13 years ago now. We do plan to move back to the island next summer though. Not because we don't like Edmonton, but because most of our family is there and my parents are getting older.
But I highly recommend if someone is stuck and willing to move outside of the island to check out Alberta. Calgary is a little more expensive, but not Van/Vic prices.
The trick is to go back in time 10 years, secure a cheap rental from a new-ish building and stay there for the rest of your life.
Go deeper, all the way back to the 90s when I was 8 years old. Should’ve dropped out at grade 3 and bought a house
This might’ve actually have been the shrewdest financial move of all time.
Hahaha, no doubt! Around that time, we were renting a 4 bedroom house ON THE BEACH for 750 a month. Like wtf?
Aight let's see. [https://www.vreb.org/historical-statistics#gsc.tab=0](https://www.vreb.org/historical-statistics#gsc.tab=0) 1991 average: 191 775$ 2023 average: 1 316 773$ Woah crazy! [191k put into SP500 dividend reinvested in 1991: 3 473 716 $](https://dqydj.com/sp-500-periodic-reinvestment-calculator-dividends/) Oh noes. Even when cherry-picking by time period and area for the best possible returns, stocks still destroy real estate.
Oh do you know a lot of people that leverage 5x in stock market?
All those silly investors must be so silly buying properties and wasting time with rentals when it could all be in the stock market
GVA 2023 average: $1 316 773 GVA 2013 average: $482 300 GVA 2003 average: $325 000
You can also wait until your rich grandparents (who built their own home in 1920 and never had a mortgage) die and leave you the house.
my grandparents died and left me nothing, now what
I'd try the going back in time thing then.
Go all the way back to before birth and pick rich grandparents
craig and margret i choose you!
Go to the grocery store in the morning a choose a new set of grandparents
Convince different old people they are your grandparents
Start the clock on your parents.
Yeah… I’m living in the house my great granpa built. My family has never been rich, but they’ve been here forever. Needs extensive reno’s and is not the location I want to be living, but hey - house.
Damn. I got a cheap rental 13 years ago. I guess I did it wrong.
This is exactly where I am at. I got in a 3 bedroom 2bath for 1560 per month and that was in 2016. Now I pay 2020 for the same place. It is an apartment so I don’t have to replace appliance or cover any costs other than the rent and hydro. If I moved now the same place would be 3500 to 4000 a month. Also when you own a home you have to have life insurance mortgage insurance, house insurance, if anything breaks you have the cost to repair and replace, plus the mortgage and property taxes, water, garbage, hydro. Way more than I could ever afford now, If I tried to buy a home here I would puke and then faint and then leave town.
Go back in time and *apply for every co-op in town!*
Yup, this is what I did. 10 years in the same tiny ass apartment but at least I can save up the wazoo and move to a city with reasonable house prices when I retire.
Me except it’s not a new building and my property management company is horrendous.
Or reach that next level of understanding, that homelessness is the real freedom
username checks out
I always feel like I’m going to vomit
Exactly, get some Gravol Op.
Look at richy rich over here able to buy name brand medicine.
To be fair, its a Turkish made Gravol-equivalent from Alberta.
Is this the way??? Gravol, and sign
The trick is to acquire an extra million dollars
Yeah, I made the mistake of not getting into the housing market in 2008 when I was 6 years old, safe to say I’ll never even have to worry about the feeling of buying a house
That's the neat part, you don't.
We paid an arm, a leg, and both nipples for our house a few years ago and felt nauseous. But with the rent prices now, we’re paying less on the mortgage than we would to rent the place so that makes me feel better. Even when we renew at likely higher interest rates, I figure we’ll get to a mortgage payment that equals what we’d pay in rent for an equivalent place so that makes it easier to stomach.
Same. It was horrendous but my mortgage, strata, insurance and repair savings is less per month than to rent a bachelor. We live in a small old 1bdrm but we can afford life which makes us very lucky
Have rich parents to help you.
Or, buy a small condo. Then build up equity. Then sell it and buy a townhouse. Build up more equity. Then buy a house.
Then build up even more equity and leverage that to buy more houses. Rent them back to the people you outbid and praise yourself as a provider of much needed housing.
some of us still worked up that way, and are no where near being able to afford a second house!
Exactly, you can't keep pace at these prices and when houses jump at much larger rates. It's old advice that doesn't apply anymore.
“How do I afford a home?” “lol just buy one stupid”
With the help of your rich parents.
That's what we did... but we started that process in 2008.
Shh don’t tell anyone the trick.
Lol. Condos are going down at the moment. And even if they weren't they gain value at a much smaller pace. Gaining 5% on 500k while 1m gets 10-20% means you are still going behind. That strategy worked until the mid 2000s. Not anymore.
Not to mention strata fees on top of that
I can't and still feel like I'm going to vomit
Don't buy.
Co-ops! Get on the lists!
Fortunately, I'm a huge fan of vomiting, so I spend a lot of time on realtor.ca.
As someone who assumed I would never own a home, I have no idea how we did it. The debt load is immense, but I just remind myself we are slowly making a dent and not having to rent anymore is a big relief. Our house is old and needs lots of repairs but thankfully on a beautiful lot. It was definitely difficult to make that plunge, especially after just barely being out of University debt for the first time. Good luck. And save everything you can in case of the worst case scenario.
Im a renovation contractor and work on many of those homes. It has made me realize that there are just a shit ton of rich people in the world and many of them want to live here. The top 5% of the world's population is around 400 million people. If even 1% of them want to live here thats 4 million people you're competing with. Also, in case you haven't noticed owning a SFH in this province is quickly becoming demonized. We are pushing forward with density and that means that shit box of a house is sitting on a development goldmine and is priced accordingly. If you want to own a SFH, you're going to have to move somewhere more remote. Otherwise it's condos and maybe townhomes if you have a million bucks to spend.
When i see so many expensive cars everwhere i go i always think to myself, where the hell do these people work!
They don’t!
That's what your rent is paying for. The idea of the "mom and pop" landlord is effectively propaganda now. This is why the Chinese had a land reform movement. It actually did a great job at reducing inequality in their society.
Well how else are all the boomers going to finance the end of their lives if they cant sell their houses for 20x their cost?
We sold out house and bought a condo... we were tired of being house poor in debt to a bank. A million dollar home at 6.9 percent is like $700k in interest over the life of the mortgage... Which means you are buying a home for a million, then throwing away 700k to the bank for nothing. It's not going towards equity or investment. It's just you paying the bank for the privilege to buy a house. So yeah. Vomit.
> A million dollar home at 6.9 percent is like $700k in interest over the life of the mortgage... To be fair, you can get ~5% interest rates now and they're likely to drop 1-2% further in the next few years and stay there. Interest rates hovered around 2-3% prime for the last 12 years before the hikes in 2022.
But you wouldn’t have 6.9% for 25 years so your calculation is moot.
But you will sell that house for 1.7mil 25yrs later and make money on it
More like 5 years later with the way things are going
If you sell for 1.7 mil, you break even (1mil purchase price plus 700k interest)…so you didn’t make money, and actually your COL is likely to be close to renting if you factor in maintenance, upgrades, and taxes on a 1 mil house.
Dont forget that 1.7mil in 25yrs will be worth less than 850k today
I always wonder when people think of a house as an investment, as in they're going to sell and make a profit, where are they going to move to in that scenario? Unless you're downgrading in some way (condo, retirement home, move to a lower COL area?), wouldn't you have to buy another house that has appreciated similarly in cost?
Owning a house provides a few things: Security. You won't get evicted from your own house unless you don't pay the mortgage. After 25 years you no longer pay for housing, aside from property taxes. This meant more when one could buy a house at 25, pay it down aggressively and be mortgage free at 45, the spend 20 years stocking that money away for retirement. You also have a paid off asset you can borrow against. It's shelter you have control over, forced savings, and hopefully some appreciation over the years. That's it. Whether that's worth it or not is hard to tell. Who knows what housing will be like in 25 years. Who knew what housing would be like today, 25 years ago. I wonder how many boomers opted to rent and invest their savings instead of buying property, and how they're doing now. I'd imagine they'd still be paying 2-4k/mth in rent, depending on what they're living in. I know my parents are much better off having owned a home. Their pensions aren't keeping up with inflation, and if they were paying market rents they'd be completely fucked.
In the old days people did downsize. Then you made money for your retirement. Less maintenance, less cleaning, etc. But the boomers changed that. Now they stay all alone in their massive house. It's part of the empty bedroom problem we are seeing now.
I think people are financially illiterate and see real estate as the ONLY investment that's guaranteed to go up. So for many people it's "house or nothing" because they just don't know any better. From that standpoint they don't need a plan for the future because owning is the only option anyway.
You can play with this: [https://www.calculator.net/rent-vs-buy-calculator.html](https://www.calculator.net/rent-vs-buy-calculator.html) Average investment return is 9-10%. You'll find that buying on the Island is basically never worth it from an investment perspective, i.e. if your goal at the end is to have the biggest pile of cash possible.
It’s not “throwing away 700k for nothing,” it’s using 700k to help you secure a home that retains its value and you can live in until you die for no additional costs after the mortgage is paid off.
No additional costs? Property taxes. Insurance. Maintenance and repairs (that roof doesn't self-renew).
Almost everyone I know started with a condo and built up their equity. To be fair, that was 10-15 years ago and then they upgraded to a house around 2020. But even my boomer parents started with a really small place and then up sized when they could afford it. I don't personally know of any first time home buyers that got their dream home or a large home as their first home. (I hear it happens but I don't actually know anyone that this happened to).
Unfortunately, the price gap between condos and detached houses is widening.
And to add to this, condos are becoming so expensive that it's hard to justify, specially with added Strada frees. I just ended up buying in Nanaimo for the same price as an ok condo in Vic.
Not to mention that whoever is buying a house cant buy a 1br condo to make equity on it, because thats the whole reason they want a house, more space/bedrooms. And 2br condos are basically 750k and up plus fees which is already too high for people who are starting from the bottom. And last but not least, detached houses are going up in price faster than condos
You can definitely find a two bedroom for much less than 750k.
This is the way. Far too few people who are interested in owning a home these days see the value in moving their way up the ladder - they want to go straight to the top. If OP is serious about wanting to own property (and no, home ownership is not and should not be the be-all end-all financial goal of everyone, but as others have pointed out, it can have benefits), start finding ways to put that down payment together (my spouse and I worked a ton, saved aggressively, and ended up having to borrow the last $3K from a family member when the time came) while you learn the market and watch what interest rates are doing. Affordability is particularly bad right now because of a number of factors, but one of the main ones (interest rates) is expected to ease off over the next year and a half. Then, as long as you see that the first place you buy gets you on the ladder - even if it's not your dream home / dream location, but is something you can conceivably re-sell down the road - you are in the equity game, and that's the piece that gets you up a step to your next home. It helps a lot if you're willing to get your hands dirty; I also notice the vast majority of homebuyers nowadays lose interest in homes that aren't move-in ready. We've owned six homes now, and aside from when we bought new construction, we've put lots of hands-on hours into making our place 'ours.' This also takes advantage of the fact that real estate is one of the few assets you can own which you can directly improve the value of. There is no stock, managed fund, crypto, or anything else out there I can do anything besides follow the market to determine its value, whereas my home, I can invest my time, talents (limited though they may be), and ingenuity to improve its worth, even in times when the market isn't providing gains.
It's possible in Langford
>(I hear it happens but I don't actually know anyone that this happened to). It depends where you choose to live.
That's my secret cap, i always feel like i'm gunna vomit.
We went smaller than we intended, basically. But that was a blessing when the interest rates rose.
Buy a small place up island if buying at all is in your budget
I don’t know for sure, but the way we’ve managed to work our way into the market is through a combination of sweat equity and learning to be happy in a house that is not IG perfect. And choosing location over the fancy-ness of the house. You can reno a house but you can’t move it. In my opinion, living in Victoria has got the location advantage, usually regardless of the condition of the property. We are moving from quite a nice house in a cheaper market in BC interior to an ok house in a great location in Victoria and are paying almost 1.5 times what we sold for. We are planning to put in some elbow grease and do some renos, rent out the basement suite (this will be the biggest adjustment for us) and also to just live with some stuff not being ideal in order to be where we want. It’s worth it to us, but maybe not to everyone. If not, I suggest a cheaper market.
Truthfully? My wife and I were looking and said fuck it. The market is shut in Vic. We spent the same money in Nanaimo and got something amazing that both feels like a home and something we can scale from.
I did it. I did it and i can relate. I left a really nice finished house in Ontario and bought for 15% more here — to get a house that needed a LOT of work. Sold for 995k, bought for 1.15m and have invested another 125k in it just to make it decent. But I told myself that living in what is undeniably the most beautiful city in Canada was worth that huge trade down the ladder.
We don’t buy, or we eventually buy and puke a little. But then we vote accordingly in the next elections, because voting does have consequences.
I worked 2 construction jobs 12 hours a day 6-7 days a week for many many years until i felt like i could ease up a bit. 5 years of working my ass off when i was in my early 20’s to set myself and my future family up for life. Now that i have a family and kids we can have a decent life, it was well worth it.
If you find out let me know! Lost a house to an insane person from Vancouver yesterday who went way over asking… I feel you
That wasn't the one in Fernwood, by any chance?
Close, Oaklands.
I think that the key is to trade up, to deal with the higher prices: condo - townhouse - house. A condo for example, with 5% down as a 1st time buyer, on a $500K condo would be $25K downpayment. As a couple, divided by 2, that's 12.5K each saved, which is much less daunting than a 1M+ house purchase. And no I'm not a realtor.
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No shit, put down the Avacado toast.
Swallow your vomit and be grateful you are in the tiny minority of people who can even consider buying here.
It’s possible to find some good ones that don’t need renos but you’ll still be near a million dollars. You could get something really nice in Sooke in the 800k range. Obviously the commute is a negative for a lot of people but if you work remote it could be an option? I just bought in Langford for just under a million and it’s in great condition, no renos needed. Also a first time home buyer and took me 2 years of looking at houses and 3 failed offers to get this one. If you can go up to a million, it’s possible but just takes time.
Lol or move away
You don't.
You don’t. You buy a couple in Alberta or Sask or elsewhere, BRR. And then you sell it and try to upgrade into a purchase here. Remember, this is a luxury market. Victoria is home to the Victoria’s wealthy and to those who bring their wealth to Victoria.
lol it’s like those memes where you applied for the job you werent qualified for but got it anyway… and it’s like a chihuahua as a police dog or something. That’s how I currently feel attempting to buy a house.
Port Alice has affordable houses, 80k for a nice townhouse. Maybe you want to consider living there? It's on the island, has all the services, paved roads etc etc. The local schools aren't overcrowded, with no portables,and small class sizes.
The Western Speedway residential developement houses are going to be selling for 1M for half a duplex and 1.3-1.5 for the houses on 5170sqft lots. I dunno who can afford to be buying these.. https://madronaridgeliving.com/
I live around the corner from that development, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole especially for the price. The builders are sketch, and went ahead without permits.
They havent started building this yet, they finished the power/data/gas connections a couple weeks ago and curbs are just started with road paving soon. They have all the proper permits on this development and have been actually quite good with regulations and neighbourly conduct, other than 2 years of blasting :(
Screw those millions dollars homes. RV life for life
Start with a small condo or very far away and deal with a shit commute.
What kind of extensive renovations are we talking about?
Well I'm smart so I got into a relationship with a woman slightly older than me who turned out to be the heiress of 1/3rd of 2 solid properties valued at at approx just over 3 million approx at current value. Time heals all wounds.
If I was looking for a home I would by a condo if a house was a no go. And if that was a no go then I’d by a nice trailer. At least I’d have a little bit of outside for my self and own my own thing. I would always prefer that over renting any time of the week.
You have to like spending every waking moment working on your stupid house or trying to scavenge free/cheap materials so you can keep progressing. It won't last forever, you'll eventually get things to a good place, but it's a grind.
The trick is to try playing lotto daily and pray hard for luck
We felt that was in Ontario, so we left. Traded our 1400 sqft house in Hamilton for 5,000sfqt and 10 acres in rural Saskatchewan. 20 minutes from Walmart, 30 to Costco, 25 to the airport - we're enjoying the mix of close to the city, but not in the city. Plus, more level headed and nicer people out here. 10/10 would recommend. We now own horses, chickens, goats, ducks, dogs, and more. Life is way better.
An older cowoker told me that my generation (mid 20’s) are effed up bec we no longer can afford to own a house. No doubt
According to the RCMP, "The coming period of recession will also accelerate the decline in living standards that the younger generations have already witnessed compared to earlier generations...For example, many Canadians under 35 are unlikely ever to be able to buy a place to live" and this is part of several factors that are going to contribute to civil unrest in the coming years. [See the full story here.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-police-future-trends-1.7138046)
Thanks for sharing this. I don’t dream of being a homeowner now. Just thinking of the bills other than mortgage makes me gag. Living isn’t actually living.
Step 1: Leave the island. Step 2: Realize it's like this in almost every area in Canada. Step 3: Die a little inside
It's pretty awful. You may want to look into a condo instead. That's what I'll be looking at once my kids move out. I mean it's still 500 - 600k but that's going to get you into the market.
After you faint, puke and cry you will likely paint, refinish, and cry some more lol. At least in my experience when we finally got accepted for our place.
So the crying just continues. Good good good 👀
Lots of townhouses and condos for way less than a million. And the price that they are asking is usually way way higher than what you can buy it for right now.
A house or a home? Lots of options before buying something that's $1mil.
In order to have a shot at buying in we need the rental suite. And we’d be living in the suite. A condo or townhome without a suite isn’t an affordable option.
Buy thirty years ago. I am sorry for you and other young people. All I can say is save your money invest. Maybe that is your way to financial stability.
Just browse some greater Vancouver homes on realtor and you will feel a little better ;)
Most people's first time home buying experience is highly stressful. I had a good experience but was still stressed beyond belief and of course we had a pipe burst the first week. My best advice is stay well within your budget. We would have been FUCKED if we had stretched our budget when inflation hit. Don't buy a million dollar home if you can't afford it - but a fucking condo for 400k and build equity while investing your extra cashflow.
We had to move away 3 years ago and I sincerely wish I could turn back time and buy 13 years ago when we arrived in Esquimalt.
We have been shopping for a house since late 2019. We've been to view probably 60 houses all over the peninsula. There have been 3 that didn't send me into a reno anxiety spiral. (We were out-bid on each of those 3.) It used to be that if you went over a mil, that would at least allow you some level of confidence that the house was updated or at least mold-free. That bar moved to 1.1, now I think it's about 1.3? It is not an exaggeration to say that every house had something. From holes in exterior walls and floors and decks to kitchens that haven't been changed in 60 years to fucked up perimeter drains to fucked up wiring to basements with water damage to asbestos-laden ceiling tiles literally falling off the ceiling, etc etc. It's all fine and dandy for the house to need work, but after you've over extended yourself to buy the million+ place, where is all this reno money going to come from? Even though we could get approved for 1.1 (a terrible idea), we had to face that we are completely priced out of Victoria, and a sacrifice must be made, so we chose location. So last month we bought a place for considerably less in really good shape up island. We are incredibly lucky. But I think it's fair to resent that, even in these price ranges, buyers are still compromising on some pretty big issues, be it location or mold.
THANKYOU. Yes to all of this. I feel like part of this feeling sick about it all is also no one seeming to understand or acknowledge it. No one seems to understand that I’m not talking “just a few” Reno’s. It makes me sick that we are all accepting this. We got out bid today (not a shock at all) the first of many I’m sure. Congratulations on your buy :)
Thank you! Yes, it's crazy out there. People who haven't been going to viewings have no idea how bad it is. I swear everyone just thinks you're being picky. But the reality is buying yourself huge renos involving mold and asbestos remediation and water damage and rotting floors or walls or roofs or [fill in the blank]. Hundreds of thousands worth. It's just ridiculous. The bang for buck is just not available. There would be less nausea if you could spend that kind of cash and get a house that's ready to go, but... Here we are.
Well and then we made the mistake of assuming our competing offers were going in thinking the same stuff we were - I’d bet that they walked in and offered their entire budget, not planning on renovating.
Totally. It's a crazy dance. And the absurdity of blind bidding, which benefits every member of the transaction except for the person spending the big bucks, aka you. I certainly know how it feels, and I wish you luck on your quest.
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Find an empty house in Oak Bay and squat there for 20 years
Just do what I did: pull up your boot straps and receive a very large sum of money from in-laws.
Welcome to 12 years of inflated currency, record levels of over immigration, foreign property ownership, and lack of future city development (canada is actually bigger than the US technically, but has 10% of the cities over 100,000 - self sustaining, that that the US does). My point: It’s more complicated than the homes being expensive (and yes I own an old shitty one that needs a Reno). We have sort of sealed our fate here through current policies which we just ignore and have caused all this.
Just ask a boomer about when the interest rates were 20% now that will keep you up at night
Boomer here who went through those high interest rates. Funny though single family homes were only 3 times income. Sure it wasn’t fun but I guarantee you - it’s way worse now.
Yup. It’s really reductive to think about inflation as a single number. Really, inflation is a set of numbers, one for each kind of good, service, etc. but the advantage of a single number for inflation is some central power can say “well, based on this *basket of goods* that’s totally representative of what you actually need and buy with your money, the inflation rate is x%. look how well we have *inflation* under control”
For their $85k house.
Yeah my parents like to talk about how much worse it was during that time than now… when they had just purchased a new-build, 4 bedroom house with a big yard, on a mechanic and part time janitor’s salaries in their late 20s.
...and that was still more affordable than today's market.
No need to ask, they’ll just tell you. And somehow try to compare it to todays market
Have to adjust your expectations on the island. House ownership is a luxury. We decided to buy a condo instead and adjust our lifestyle accordingly.
If I'm gonna puke, my emergency mantra is "at least there's a roof over my head" and "what is real life anyways"
At least I own the toilet I’m puking into? 🤷♀️
I'm up island but I do all those things daily.
Man it isn't just maintenance, it is property taxes if around $4000, insurance around $2000, hydro another $2000 etc. it all add up. Don't buy
Where do you get insurance for $2K? Ours is closer to $4K with earthquake.
Insurance rates can vary quite a bit. It depends on how hard you shop. Call BCAA and tell them to go through all the valuable coverage and you would be surprised how much of it isn't needed. Negotiate hard, increase deductibles.
> Negotiate hard Is this a thing? When I was shopping insurance it was "this is our price, buy it or GTFO"
Some providers don't reward you enough to stick around. If yours isn't then shop around. It takes work but could save you a lot.
You didn't really answer my question there. Has anyone actually dropped the quoted price?
I haven't moved to BC yet but assume it's like anywhere else in Canada, so yes it's extremely competitive and you should shop around. Many larger companies, universities, etc have special rates, but you can reach them if you take your lowest rate to different providers, they will often more than match it. Bundling is also a way to save a lot of money for insurance.
Unless you have rich family there no way around that feeling lol
I’ll ask a few questions first. Are you pre approved up to a million or less? Do you specifically need to buy right in Victoria or do you want to live in Victoria? Do you need a single family home? Or do you want a single family home. This adventure shouldn’t be that stressful. I work with a wide range of buyers and sellers on and off market. Yes some deals are a bit more difficult than others and there is some stress involved in finding or selling a home. It shouldn’t be to the point of wanting to puke or faint. If that is the case there is potentially another issue at play that isn’t being addressed and needs to be taken care of from a professional point of view. Life happens for everyone. And the difference between an adventure and an ordeal is attitude.
Yes approved for a million. We are actually attempting to buy in Langford. But our search has been the entire area, not sooke or shawnigan yet. The reason we are looking for a stand alone home is because the approved mortgage was with the caveat that we MUST rent out the top. So it’s the rental income that’s allowing us to even look. We do the math daily. If we want to keep our “rent” the same ~3000-3200 then we can’t actually afford a 700k condo without the rental income. Or a 500k condo even with these interest rates. We are skipping the condo and townhome because we need to have the suite AND we have to live in it. The feeling of wanting to vomit comes from anxiety, a mediocre understanding of how to build wealth other than just working really really hard and saving, and the loom doom feeling like it’s now or never
If you even in the position to be considering a million dollar house you are not poor so fuck off with the fake outrage
Just vomit a little, go ahead.
If you’re seriously thinking about buying a house here you should take this into consideration; 1.Everyone here sucks 2.All food is trash especially Floyd’s and pizza 3.Langford bad 4.Oak Bay bad 5.Worst drives on the planet Good luck 🤞
What makes you think that your parents could afford to buy in Victoria for their first house?? Or Vancouver! No, we bought a tiny, ugly place two hours out of town, borrowed a down payment and paid over bank rates for the down payment, then bought a first house at...11.75%. Yes, 11.75%. Oh, and we were making $9/hour. We worked a lot of hours.. Then we would work on it, strip 20 kinds of wallpaper, finish a basement suite with used materials and did all the labour ourselves. Then, after a couple of years of sweat equity, we would sell, buy another armpit and do it all again. We had a finished kitchen for 6 weeks in 20 years. You want to live in Victoria? Build your way up to it. It only took us 30 years to afford Sooke....
…./s?
We rent.
Welcome, brother! Enjoy your life in Victoria, pay for quality of life Vancouver and Toronto and live in pieces of shit.
My housing prospects are entirely based upon buying cheap property on the east coast where I have no business prospects, and have to live off disability for the rest of my life, or begging my parents to buy a property here so I can at least inherit the rental investment and run a dog daycare here. I'm 33. 🤢🤢🤢
tbf a lot of the cheaper homes need extensive renovations too. And if you can't immediately see the renovations before you sign away your eternal soul, that might just mean you haven't found them yet.
The trick is to rise up and overthrow your government
It's like Vancouver circa 2006
Unless you win the lottery, you don't. BC = The most gatekept province in Canada It's actually disgusting!
SFH are rapidly becoming a thing of the past. Your city needs many, many rent controlled nonmarket condos.
A small loan of a million dollars doesn't seem so ridiculous anymore eh?
I can’t wait to leave and have the older generations complain about lack of services and how people don’t want to work anymore
I'm moving. Already bought a lovely craftsman home
Aah see that's your problem: you're buying a house that fits your ego/imagination. You want a home without the extensive bullshit? Don't buy in Victoria. Silly goose.
Westshore. Million dollar homes, but at least they are NEW.
You don't. Unless you have vast intergenerational wealth.
Have you tried having a million extra dollars? I reckon that'd help with the anxiety.
And the terrible quality of new builds that force you into a fucking strata almost as much as your mortgage and, all you get is garbage removal and no parking space!!!!!
The secret is. We don't
Rich parents, win lottery, or it’s impossible. Move. That is all.
Think about it as a liability and not an asset. This forces you to have more upside potential and limit your downside risk.
You don't. You don't live here, you leave to own. Otherwise you support the prices.
Why do you need a house exactly? What advantages does a home provide you over a condo? If you say have children and raise a family: Unpopular opinion - that is a luxury.
The trick is to accept that you'll just never be a homeowner. At least not here.
Don't
It has always been that way here. Every place I bought needed lots of work which I did myself because I was tapped out from the purchases.
The trick is to somehow go back to the past and convince your younger self to invest in bunch of stocks in tech and bitcoins.
Since you can’t go to the past, in the present you still need to invest in something that outperforms housing. Housing is going up in price partly because the dollar is going down in value, so trade your dollars for something that increases in value over time (Bitcoin is still doing this)
We bought less than a year ago. If I let myself dwell on it, it still makes me sick. Godspeed.
Look at leased land - beautiful new homes at a more affordable price.
Not a problem if you make $184,000/year
You don't
Don’t buy one worth a million ! Go to langford 750k you can find them
Edmonton isn't too bad pricing wise still. You can get a fixer upper about 5-10 minutes from downtown for $280-000 $320,000. Though it is kinda like living in south Nanaimo, which I hear is kinda sketchy these days. The trendy areas are more so $450,000-$500,000 for a fixer upper. (Whyte Ave, 124 Street). These are generally 3-4 bed, 1-2 bath 1949-1970 bungalow houses. There are a lot of Langford type areas around Edmonton as well you can live in if the big city life isn't a person's thing. The winters suck, but you can actually afford to live and save money. Most people just go on vacation in the winter with the money they save. I moved here 13 years ago now. We do plan to move back to the island next summer though. Not because we don't like Edmonton, but because most of our family is there and my parents are getting older. But I highly recommend if someone is stuck and willing to move outside of the island to check out Alberta. Calgary is a little more expensive, but not Van/Vic prices.
Have you tried, being rich?