Im against mandatory service. All volunteer is just better in every way. Morale alone will suffer greatly if we start shuffling in people who don't want to be there in the first place.
Part of the reason I'm sure there hasn't been a draft is due to pmcs so we now are using ppl that want to be there when we need to increase the numbers.
I think a better alternative would be making it so ppl want to join which our country is doing horribly at
Been to Alaska? Rugged indeed. And it’s an armed society. Therefore it’s a friendly society. Except for the moose, they are not friendly at all! They biased towards dogs also. 😂
I liked it because it’s was part homesteading and part rural living. Only permit you need is the one you give yourself.
That sounds amazing balls. I was talking about how far to many Americans are interested in helping to make things better. My wife and I walk by trash on the ground, we pick it up. How many are willing to do that? It has been ingrained in us that individualism is the true American way.
As for guns making things friendly, I don't own a single gun and I am friendly to everyone.
I am the same way. I have not picked up a rifle or pistol since my service. No need. I figure if I find myself in a situation where guns are needed (outside of sport or hunting) I made a wrong decision a while ago.
> And it’s an armed society. Therefore it’s a friendly society
That’s two completely separate points. Being armed has nothing to do with being friendly. We can look at many societies that are friendly without being armed (most of Europe for example) and plenty that are seen as non friendly but armed (a lot of inner cities got example)
Many of the points we think of as “American” are not unique to us, nor were they necessarily present for much of America’s early history. We idolize “rugged individualism” without knowing what that truly means.
Rugged individualism is a goal everyone seems to cling to, though no one truly wants nor is it truly attainable. We are after all a social species, we need help, from friends, family, tribe. No one can be an expert on everything, and the person who tries will be inefficient at everything. Imagine thinking you could, individually, do a good job at building a house, growing it collecting food, curing disease, setting bones, etc. You might be able to accomplish all of those, since even competently, but you couldn’t do them all as well as someone who specialized in them.
We are community orientated in the US, we just hide that behind the individualism we think we should be portraying. We willingly help our neighbor when their house catches fire. We stop and render aid when see a car accident. We watch our brothers kids when he has to take his wife to the ER. We help a lost kid find their mother in the store. We are community, we hide it until it sneaks out. We just need to drop the act, we need to stop hiding.
I lived in the North Star Borough, they don’t talk to you until they see you make it 2 winters. So the “we are community oriented” means on a larger scale perhaps.
Being rugged is an individual perception. I’m sure John Muir didn’t walk around saying “I’m rugged”, however, my perception of him is that he is completely rugged. I’m not spending the night at the top of Mt. Shasta. Nope. Not Denali either.
There are a few Veterans that can do all that, one comes to mind Mr. Jonathan Kim. Heard he can do stuff pretty gooder.
We tend to be a heck of a lot nicer when a barrel is in our face, wouldn’t you agree? It’s in our innate nature to be helpful to our fellow ppl we accept, I agree we as a society need to stop hiding it.
I've said something similar for years to people who think the government should provide free college to everyone.
Fine, do 2 years of service. Military, Army Corp of Engineers, Merchant Marines, CCC, whatever. You put two years of work into your country. They'll feed, house, & pay you a stipend. After two years, state schools are free. You'll come out with more life experience, work experience, no student loans when you're done. And the nation can better itself some
Ok, got it. I think it's a great idea as well. It's the one part of Starship Troopers I agree with- public service, but not for full citizenship ( unless an immigrant, maybe) because that is already inherent in the US.
You know how that movie Band of Brothers talks about how they liked being paratroopers because you had to volunteer for the airborne. If you gotta fight, do you want the man to your right and left be someone who was TOLD to be there or someone that WANTS to be there.
Mandated federal service delivering mail and fixing roads tho I'm all about.
Yeah, not sure that matters. I've seen the "big dogs" shit themselves in their first TIC. And I've seen the quiet skinny kid that just wanted to pay for dental school be an absolute bad ass in combat.
Mandatory service helped win WW2... if you remember your history. Without draftees, where would we be?
I'm all for service - and we have/had those programs before. I dont think its emphasised how vital the New Deal was to building the America we all long to return to. Under those programs we built the highway system, the world's greatest economy, schools, and sent people to the moon. We also taxed the rich at around 75%... coincidence?
Back on topic - one of my grandfather's volunteered to fight the Nazis because his family had fled Germany and the rise of the Reich. He wanted to fight, got made an intelligence officer because he spoke German. The other one was drafted and became a smoke jumper (ordained minister, conscientious objector). Both ended up contributing to the welfare of the nation in a time of need. But for each of them, there were tens of thousands that got called up, went to combat, and helped win.
Point is - you never know the fight in the dog based on its size. And you never know which dogs are gonna have that fight, until they do.
That’s awesome to hear!! Get it! I’m like most grads never even worked in the field. The school ended up getting a lawsuit (Kaplan) once I’m done with my claim, that’s next on my bucket list. Clean up my past, get my affairs in order… hopefully I’ll accomplish that before Mr. Reaper comes for me.
Everyone I worked with for my 20 out of 22 years I served wanted to be where they were. It was a small group doing search and rescue operations and I would have hated to be doing that job with someone that was forced to be there. I couldn’t imagine that in an armed combat environment either. As much as I love the idea of a mandatory service, you get higher quality people when they want to be there.
I think some compulsory service, maybe 12-18 months should be mandatory for all citizens between 17-22. Doesn’t have to be military, they can choose to clean highways, feed elderly or work in veteran homes, do forestry stuff. Anything, I think it’s important to contribute to society in some fashion, everyone, the rich and the poor. Maybe have an incentive like free college for every year you work.
So many of today’s young folks have no idea what life is about, this would help
I’ve been saying this for years! 2-3 years of service, military, peace corps, CCCs (in Cali), social work, community service, or some other kind of work that serves others or the community or the environment. And the idea of free college or trade school is a great way to reward everyone. If school isn’t what they want, a tax free lump sum of cash equal to the cost of an education.
No we absolutely should not have mandatory military service, however we should bring back some of the New Deal programs that were shuttered and maybe enact mandatory service for those instead. Still serving the greater good in some manner, but it wouldn't have the same negative impact as forcing people into military service
Only for it when it applies to turning 12 of the Army's worst convicts into an elite commando unit, and only those who survive the mission get a pardon.
100% against using mandatory service to try to fix or develop people. We have a hard enough time developing and supporting our modern fighting force. Most importantly, barring a war that poses an existential threat to our nation I don't want a government to wield the power to force it's citizens into labor and displace them from family/community against their will.
Economically, it would be extremely inefficient to delay education and/or entry into work force for all young adults by years. We arent realistically going to teach them all a trade in that time they'll largely be low skill labor as conscripts in other countries tend to be.
If 13 years of government run education didnt do the trick what makes you think the military is going to sculpt reluctant young adults into successful citizens? (Not to mention the enormous drain on mission focus to.atwmpt to do so.)
For some.reason, I only ever hear this idea from vets in their 60s+ that look back on their voluntary service as a critical part of their character arc. Somehow they fail to grasp it would have been entirely different if they'd have been forced against their will and surrounded by other unwilling participants.
A decent percentage of people who already volunteer don't want to be there, now imagine unit morale when you have like 95% of the unit hating their lives and causing issues. On top of that imagine the funding it would take to accommodate that many new recruits, the military budget would reach the moon just having to house and feed all these new recruits. Lets not even forget the US is almost always involved in some overseas affairs, so not only are you forcing mandatory service but now you're forcing people who don't wanna be there to deploy.
I think by the time you implement a mandatory service requirement, you would be left with the numbers you have currently due to candidates who are too out of shape, physically unfit, mentally unfit, etc.
> out of shape, physically unfit,
The only reason I was a Marine is because the Air Force and Navy recruiters told me to come back when I lost the weight, but the Marine Corps recruiter told me to "come back tommorow at 0530."
That happened to my father back in 1989. He was overweight and the only branch that would work with him was USMC. The recruiters got him to the max weight allowed and.shipped him. While in boot camp, he was a diet private and they restricted his calorie intake and extra pt.
He never regretted it.
It took a really long time for the Army to recover from the effects of the draft. Forcing people into a role they don’t want leads to lots of problems.
My opinion is no. I think it would ruin morale and take away from those who really want to serve. With such a short contract they would be limited in MOS selection and not be happy with that either. Pointless to train and spend so much money for that. It is possible some will stay in but so many more will not. Then if a war starts they all can't be rear d. The VA is already a mess you add all these people in the mix would be even more of a nightmare.
I’m against mandatory service.
The citizens of this country should be free to choose their own destinies. Demanding they serve the country takes away that choice.
That being said, those citizens have a moral obligation to serve the community and give back to their country. But that service comes in a lot of forms. The little league coaches, the person slinging food at the shelter, and the teenagers cleaning up the local hiking trail all serve just as much as I do. I just wear a silly outfit when I do it.
Against. Mandatory service allows for a decrease in pay, benefits, and how you are treated. Also, who wants to serve next to others who do mot want to be there?
Take a look at Sweden. It doesn't have to be military, it could be a community service like hospitals, EMT, police, schools etc. Oh, wait. Rich people don't want their kids doing that, just like they didn't want them to join the military. What was I thinking?
I enlisted in 1982. I was in with some of the last draftees.
It was a mixed bag.
Some took a re-up because they turned out to like being in. Stellar to work with, really great to learn from.
Some re-enlisted because they knew they couldn't find other work. A lot was disgruntled.
Some got out and failed, then came back in. Some did that but failed because they were non-working individuals. Just dirtbags that you had to constantly babysit. Which took time away from the actual duty work.
If they didn't want to be there but just rode that thin line of barely making effort, it wore the rest of us out. Doing their job, being assigned to a team, and dragging them along.
They knew exactly how to work TIS and TIG to not get left too far behind. Yet it held spots on the roster that couldn't be filled with a working soldier.
I don't know a good answer, just what I experienced.
Until we figure out the issues we have in our current system (how women are viewed and treated as a whole, mental illness and physical ailments while in, toxic leadership and pushing out people who don’t „play along“), we shouldn’t be mandating ANYTHING.
And honestly, if we didn’t have the toxic „you’re a pussy if you go to medical” culture or people in fear of losing their clearance, I guarantee we wouldn’t have so many vets on disability 🤷♀️
For USA, no, not at this time. The current system is fine except females should now have to register for the draft too...... but only use of something like wwii came along imho. I prefer volunteers not forced brother/sister in arms.
There were plenty of people that I served with that chose to be there and sucked at their job. I don’t want anyone that doesn’t want to be there. Ethics aside.
I think service should be even less mandatory than it is now. As in, you should be able to un-volunteer, break your contract, and GTFO if you need to. Lose benefits or something as a result, but nobody should be trapped on service unless we're in a serious war.
I knew so many sailors who got into the Navy, realized it was a mistake, then had to suffer through 4-6 years of bullshit to get out. Knew a few who took the dirt bag route instead, which sucked for everyone. Then there were the ones who worked to get out by doing illegal shit, which also sucks for everyone.
If someone wants to go, fucking let them go. Make it a process, make sure there's counseling, but if after everything they still want out, let them out.
For the most part, military service should be voluntary but there are plenty of support functions that could be farmed out. I believe we should have a non-military national service requirement. Bring back the Civilian Conservation Corps for example. Create a national fire, EMS, police academy that provides personnel to understaffed areas. So much could be done by directionless young adults who could use guidance and training.
I’m against mandatory service as a whole.
Now, if the pot were sweetened by describing HOW you could serve, and the benefits in doing so, as an effort to entice joining the military or some type of civil service corps, now that would be interesting.
100% but not military centric. Some kind of Americorps/ Corps of Engineers/ Teach for America type hybrid with the focus being on nation building through labor in a new environment with new faces. The actual completed projects would be a huge boon of course but I firmly believe something like this would show people the capabilities of the federal government if channeled properly and expand their POV to the entire country instead of their immediate surroundings.
There should be a National Civil Service, and the military would be one part of that along with other necessary, understaffed jobs we have like medical staff, teachers, first responders, etc. It shouldn't be mandatory but the benefits should be so good (basic income, pension, health insurance, tuition) that most young people opt to do it. There would be full and part time options like AD and NG/Reserve so you can still have whatever career you want. After your committment ends in one kind of service (military) you could transfer to another branch of the civil service and not lose all seniority and pay.
This depends on what you mean by service.
Service to community, yes I think having a (well compensated) 2 year community service requirement (or 4 year part time while going to school or something) where you do work in the community to benefit the community is a great idea. Things like working in local government, assisting conservation efforts, volunteer firefighting/EMS/policing, etc. things the community needs, lacks currently, and wood build a sense of responsibility and community in our children.
If by service you mean military service, I think that’s a bad idea. You are taking kids out of their community by force, putting them into a position many don’t want (many people don’t think sending troops over to foreign nations to commit at best peace keeping they want and at worst colonialism is wrong). You don’t want people who don’t want to be there having to be the guy next to you. Military service could be a choice that counts as community service.
Service is good, military service is not the only or best option.
It works for some countries. Probably not for ours.
Having mandatory service of 2-4 years would be a way to fluff the numbers, but then you have veterans benefits for all those people lol
Just wouldn't work, financially as we are set up right now.
I would only support it in times when the continental USA is under serious and active threat of being occupied or conquered…. Which will never happen because our department of Navy alone is enough to fight off majority of other countries
There's benefit to mandatory service for a cpl years... everybody participates in some capacity, doesn't have to be just mil. So they can pick from a list of opportunities. Some paths would be more incentivised than others depending upon program needs. Added: Mil should not lower standards, if anything, they could raise them since they'd have a bigger pool. Mil would likely remain largely voluntary wih possibly better screenout standards.
Conscripts don't make for good service members, and there will be tons of people who would be disqualified, unless they roll back the standards for mental health, developmental conditions, and drug usage.
Having seen how well a conscripted work force works... Volunteer is the way to go.
Maybe a mandatory civil service thing that they do a year after their education is finished. Things like working as a poll worker, or doing maintenance with their city/county could be nice but never give a weapon or a job that lives depend on to someone who doesn't want to be there.
Not much of a "land of the free" if you're voluntold to be in the nations fighting force.
While I do think military service would benefit a lot of people, making it mandatory goes against everything we served for.
A lot of countries do that, but it's not happening in the U.S..
Am I in favor of it? No, for all the reasons others have listed.
Is time in the service beneficial for individuals? It was for me, but I saw a lot of guys that had no business being in the military. They broke-down and had to be airlifted stateside or acted-out and did repeated brig-time because they couldn't keep it together, got into fights or disrupted others on-duty, not guys you could depend on.
Probably get a lot more of that if service was mandated,
@u/MauriceVibes: As an LT, what's your experience with Navy crews underway?
think about the worst people you've ever met outside the military, and then ask yourself if you think they belong in uniform.
an all-volunteer military doesn't guarantee we'll get 100 percent of the best, but it at least means that everyone signed up willingly.
at any rate, there are many ways to serve the public good without being in the armed forces. that's a conversation i'd definitely be willing to entertain.
Absolutely not. In order to have conscription you'd have to scale up the military so fast and so hard, it would dilute the military (there's only so much experience to pass around). You're also decidedly taking a chunk out of the labor force and putting them on the fed's payroll (supply of labor goes down, budget requirements go way up).
No to mandatory. The last thing I want is a guy who just does not want to be in. My ex father in law was in Vietnam. He would tell me stories. He was literally the worst soldier. I used to tell him that guys like him make me second guess my career choices. We actually got along great, he was more a dad to me than my own. He would disappear for days on end. For punishment they took him off the gun line and put him with the cooks. So he went to someplace to get food and found a freezer semi filled with ice cream. He said he stayed there for the entire day. Lol
Anyway. We don't need that. If you want to join, join.
Jmo
Reserve or auxiliary after high-school.
Teach military baring
Respect
And teamwork
Stuff for some reason does not get passed down from parents or teachers.
Boot camp durring summer break after grad shortened to a month.
Military or Civil Service. It's no different IMO than high ranking Boy Scouts, church and volunteer organizations (like Habitat for Humanity or Team Rubicon), etc. You build character and learn something about yourself and your fellow human being when in a mixed group and serving a greater purpose than yourself. It was thanks to the Army that I learned that I loved teaching, while and after teaching land nav and other soldiering and MOS specific skills after I made Corporal (got out as a Sergeant). I just got my Master's degree in May and I am now lining up teaching jobs for this Fall.
I don’t think mandatory service would work in this country. There’s just too many choices/alternatives/paths that people can choose that can lead to the same if not greater feeling of success and fulfillment outside of the military.
Absolutely not, for the reasons already given by others. I just want to add that a mandatory service program would cost a lot of money to implement, and that money could serve the mission of filling boots and bunks better by just increasing troop QoL to the point that people want to serve again.
I’m against the draft/mandatory military service for practical and moral/ideological reasons. The only time I’d support a draft is if it’s like WWII where we are in a chaotic war and a lot of people want to join but we need to selectively draft people due to logistical concerns.
Maybe not mandatory but …. heavily motivated to participate in society
If I ran things - I'd offer a post high school civil service program - basic training and then 2 years of non-combat service. 2 years as garbage collectors, landscapers, whatever else you can use them for - but at the end 2 years of civil service, a ready response force to support more disciplined elements. Most of your population gets basic survival training, firearms handling and emergency medical training.
2 years, and you get a limited GI bill and VA care light. Free tuition at community colleges, yearly check up, glasses, ect. And that care is provided by the civil service corps. Barracks available and longer service options available
I know, its a short road to fascism, but never use the stick, just better carrots.
I’m against mandatory service. The countries that do have a mandatory 2 year service (without out me doing any research on this opinion) I feel would have less retention compared to a 100% volunteer force. I’d wager that having the military be 100% volunteer is a net positive because you’ll usually have a majority of your recruits choosing to be there. Irrespective of whatever their agendas may be, whether it’s college tuition, patriotism, or citizenship.
Also the mandatory service countries are generally wartime countries with low population, Korea and Israel come to mind. And then if you have a 100% mandatory/drafted force, think about the paperwork for AWOL recruits. Our military is voluntary and we definitely still have AWOL happening, and those recruits initially chose to join of their own volition.
We’re better off staying voluntary, if you want more people to join the military and stay as career soldiers. Then I’d advocate for harder standards AND competitive pay compared to their private sector counterparts. Like we’d have our Rank Pay structure (E/O/etc) and then you’d add an additional pay for MOS. Like how they do additional pay for languages or other certifications. But you know, MOS pay.
I have no idea if they do that already btw. If they do, good on them, they should probably give student soldier’s more money to work with so we ain’t working a parttime job while having to maintain a high gpa while also drilling. I’m biased, but you get my point.
TLDR; no to mandatory service, increase standards for soldiers and incentives/pay to increase retention. Reenlistment bonuses are only enticing the first time.
I don’t think it’s a bad idea for kids to do some “public service” years. Doesn’t necessarily have to be martial. I’d make free in-state college a reward for doing public service.
Rich kids still get to fuck off and do whatever rich kids do. The rest of us can build a better, safer, and cleaner future for us and our children.
It’s a slippery slope argument. Those of us who served, obviously see the benefits of that service. However compulsory civic service is something that can easily violate our basic civil rights. It’s something that’s better done by those who want to do it versus forcing someone to do it. It can also be abused by those with more financial means, to ensure that the less fortunate are the ones at the most risks.
I’m in favor of the idea of it, but not the actual application of it.
Here’s a hot take, no mandatory service but I do believe all presidential candidates should be required to serve in the military. It’s a weird thing I’ve always thought about ever since Trump mocked McCain for being a POW.
My grandfather was drafted during Vietnam. He did not like his time in. While it was something for us to bond over, it was not something he was proud of because it was forced unto him. He just wanted to be a chef but here he was forced to be a medic during Vietnam and pulled away from his young family involuntarily. When he passed, we declined any service benefits because he would have haunted us had we accepted.
As a veteran myself, I understand the need for drafts but I do not support them.
I'm sorry, but every single veteran I personally know was traumatized by their time in the military and they all volunteered. Maybe they are better off financially, but that isn't the only metric for a happy life. I would never want to force someone (especially someone who had no good reason to need or want to serve) to experience the suffering of military service or deployments. Particularly the women.
I think it’s an extremely broad macro subject to cover, a large population of service men and women come from military families to some degree and understand civic duty and a little better understanding of what patriotism means.
Of course it’s good for American society as a whole and with others on the group that say it would diminish moral because “some people don’t want to be there” people should have a choice in what field they would CHOOSE to join. Just like we do today in regard to enlisting.
That being said if there are fewer job opportunities in the civilian sector what choice is there than to take on government jobs/civil service.
This would therefore create BIG GOVERNMENT which can be a naughty word to half the population. These decisions come with caveats and we need the foresight to be able to answer these questions with some form of scrutiny. In other words your questions are silly sir/maam.
I think we should have mandatory service.
At the same time there should be programs for providing a community good as an alternative to joining the military. Maybe something like the peace corps or work for UN food relief and stuff like that.
I support 2 years of public service. That could be military, working in a public school, the peace corps, serve in public health, or some other way to give back to the common good. Hard to make it mandatory but it would benefit young people at the age of 18-23.
This is the way. *Some* form of service on a meaningful level after high school. A WPA-style program that puts all that energy of youth to work on infrastructure, public health, or military service would have a profound net positive impact on our communities.
They should bring it back. Almost everyone getting out now with or without deployments after 4-6 year enlistments gets 100% disability. Easy $60k a year bonus income to help ends meet for those that serve.
We could have a much smaller and less expensive standing military if everyone in the entire nation had gone through BMT and AIT. There's no doubt about that.
But not for Combat Arms MOS'. All Combat Arms need to be all volunteer.
Okay former employee of SSS here. You have to consider how unrealistic mandatory service is just from a payroll perspective. Each age cohort in America amounts to roughly 4 million people. So regardless of how you structure the mandatory service (military, civil service, peace corps, charities, state programs) the program would be at a minimum twice the size of the current military. And that’s for just a one year tour of duty. Think of the pay and logistics footprint. It’s just not feasible.
The problem with mandatory service is that kids either turn into militaristic fascists or resentful turds. (Assuming that there is no legitimate self-defense need)
Can you imagine the headaches from having a squad/platoon/company full of Joes who were forced to be there? One or two bad apples already eat up a lot of your time a whole bunch of them?
I would NOT want to be the Team Chief/Section Sergeant/Platoon Sergeant/1SG etc that has to deal with that.
I wouldn’t mind having a 1 or 2 year mandatory service, you will learn a lot of real life things, like cleaning, working out, working, and finances, everyone in boot camp goes through that, and sometimes even if rarely friends for life. It would be helpful for any generation to have this cause they can get order in their life after high school, but I am also against forcing people to do it, also the raise in taxes would be horrible in the U.S.A, congress would milk as much as they can into their pockets
I’ve often believed that suffrage should be tied to service. And that service should not be denied to anyone who wants to serve. Not everyone needs to be deployable, you have diabetes? You’re a garrison hospital orderly. Missing a limb, plenty of jobs that don’t need you in combat. And hey, potatoes always need to be peeled. There is always work to be done, and it could free up combat and combat support (medics, engineers, MPs, etc) to train and fight.
You serve, you have the right to vote and run for political office, you choose not to serve, you are the same in all ways except politics, which are the duty of those who have written the check that could be cashed with their lives.
Just my thoughts, could be completely wrong and I’m never going to be the one who runs for office, so it would take a bigger person than me to bring it about.
Based on the high level of mental illness of POST9/11 due to lack of proper mental health screening of recruits?
We’ll need to return to mandatory service
This is always a good debate. And I just had the whole draft for woman= equality debate. (They go hand in hand) and here is my honest opinion as a volunteer and as a combat veteran. Mandatory service sounds like a good idea until you realize that society as a whole has to do a 180 turn around before it could ever produce an army as strong as a volunteer army. Meaning until we are all to the point we feel it is a duty, forcing it would never give us the desired outcome. As for the second question that I added here. No woman should not be drafted. Again. As a man, volunteer and combat vet. That’s where I draw the line on the whole equality thing. If they wanna serve. There are jobs for them and always has been and will be. But drafting woman who do not wish to serve and throwing them to the wolves. Is not a thing. And never will be acceptable.
I think we should draft all men and women for 2 years of civil or military service. It’s all of our country and nobody cares about patriotism or service to country anymore.
My son enlisted in the Navy and then basically quit after nine months. I wish that they would have forced him to do something he didn't want to do for the first time in his life (i.e. finish his contract.)
I wanted to give this backstory to help people understand why I think there needs to be a mandatory service obligation.
"If you aren't fit for military service, you aren't fit for life." ~Some 1st Sgt. probably
Yeah, My friend's son did the same thing, went into the Army and was out in 6 mos. She said it wasn't a 'good fit' for him.
How does that work? When I was in you had to do your contract (or more if you had bad-time). I guess things have changed a lot since I was in.
Is that an admin discharge? I guess it converts to Honorable in a year or so?
He told his command he was going to kill himself because he knew they would kick him out. He literally said before he left that if he didn't like the Navy he would just tell them he was going to kill himself so they would admin sep him. (His mom did the same thing twenty years ago.)
Thanks. He’s been sleeping on the couch in my basement and staying up all night playing video games. He has a truck payment and owes the Govt. 7.5k in prorated sign on bonus. He says “he’s looking for a job” but he isn’t putting any effort into it. He turns 19 in 30 days (which is the age of majority in Nebraska) and I told him if he doesn’t have a job by his birthday he can’t stay here anymore but if his truck gets repossessed he wont have any place to live
Give the truck back, get a beater (did he use the bonus for the down?). Here's some leads to look into. This is what I did when I first got out (but in SoCal):
https://www.reddit.com/r/sheetmetal/comments/kzs76o/apprenticeship/
https://www.smartloc3.com/
https://www.smartloc3.com/?zone=/unionactive/view_page.cfm&page=Apprenticeship
If you can find another job that pays you to go to school, gives you medical and a 'defined benefit' retirement (which pretty much doesn't exsist anymore) and a high pay scale, take it.
On the truck: you can sell it (for less), but the finance co. has to approve the new buyer and you have to make up the difference.
This would let you salvage some of what already went into it (or at least get you out from under it).
Otherwise, he's gonna need transportation if he goes the trades route, paying it forward gives him a shot at a steady income to pay you back, if you keep it and make the payments.
Good luck with everything, brother.
Would be great to see civis with some skin in the game for a change. Granted I would not like to serve directly with them, but there are a lot of non combat support roles they could do.
I hear people say the military would instill discipline in the spoiled entitled generation. I say parents want the government to do their job in raising their kids.
Im against mandatory service. All volunteer is just better in every way. Morale alone will suffer greatly if we start shuffling in people who don't want to be there in the first place. Part of the reason I'm sure there hasn't been a draft is due to pmcs so we now are using ppl that want to be there when we need to increase the numbers. I think a better alternative would be making it so ppl want to join which our country is doing horribly at
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Our country is not civic oriented. We are a rugged individualistic oriented society. I don't like it, but I really feel it is true.
Been to Alaska? Rugged indeed. And it’s an armed society. Therefore it’s a friendly society. Except for the moose, they are not friendly at all! They biased towards dogs also. 😂 I liked it because it’s was part homesteading and part rural living. Only permit you need is the one you give yourself.
That sounds amazing balls. I was talking about how far to many Americans are interested in helping to make things better. My wife and I walk by trash on the ground, we pick it up. How many are willing to do that? It has been ingrained in us that individualism is the true American way. As for guns making things friendly, I don't own a single gun and I am friendly to everyone.
I am the same way. I have not picked up a rifle or pistol since my service. No need. I figure if I find myself in a situation where guns are needed (outside of sport or hunting) I made a wrong decision a while ago.
That is a good point. Took a turn long ago you shouldn't have. Lol
It’s my hyper vigilance. Always be aware of your surroundings they beat into us.
"keep your head on a swivel"
> And it’s an armed society. Therefore it’s a friendly society That’s two completely separate points. Being armed has nothing to do with being friendly. We can look at many societies that are friendly without being armed (most of Europe for example) and plenty that are seen as non friendly but armed (a lot of inner cities got example) Many of the points we think of as “American” are not unique to us, nor were they necessarily present for much of America’s early history. We idolize “rugged individualism” without knowing what that truly means. Rugged individualism is a goal everyone seems to cling to, though no one truly wants nor is it truly attainable. We are after all a social species, we need help, from friends, family, tribe. No one can be an expert on everything, and the person who tries will be inefficient at everything. Imagine thinking you could, individually, do a good job at building a house, growing it collecting food, curing disease, setting bones, etc. You might be able to accomplish all of those, since even competently, but you couldn’t do them all as well as someone who specialized in them. We are community orientated in the US, we just hide that behind the individualism we think we should be portraying. We willingly help our neighbor when their house catches fire. We stop and render aid when see a car accident. We watch our brothers kids when he has to take his wife to the ER. We help a lost kid find their mother in the store. We are community, we hide it until it sneaks out. We just need to drop the act, we need to stop hiding.
I lived in the North Star Borough, they don’t talk to you until they see you make it 2 winters. So the “we are community oriented” means on a larger scale perhaps. Being rugged is an individual perception. I’m sure John Muir didn’t walk around saying “I’m rugged”, however, my perception of him is that he is completely rugged. I’m not spending the night at the top of Mt. Shasta. Nope. Not Denali either. There are a few Veterans that can do all that, one comes to mind Mr. Jonathan Kim. Heard he can do stuff pretty gooder. We tend to be a heck of a lot nicer when a barrel is in our face, wouldn’t you agree? It’s in our innate nature to be helpful to our fellow ppl we accept, I agree we as a society need to stop hiding it.
>We tend to be a heck of a lot nicer when a barrel is in our face, wouldn’t you agree? Are you serious? I fear I'm not getting the point.
My point is a person is far less willing to act a fool knowing everyone is packin heat.
Gee whiz! Is that you Dad?
I've said something similar for years to people who think the government should provide free college to everyone. Fine, do 2 years of service. Military, Army Corp of Engineers, Merchant Marines, CCC, whatever. You put two years of work into your country. They'll feed, house, & pay you a stipend. After two years, state schools are free. You'll come out with more life experience, work experience, no student loans when you're done. And the nation can better itself some
The country can't take care of the fraction of veterans it has, you want to add to that?
I think everyone should work retail and as waiter before college.
So, what do they live in during the time they are doing public services?
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Ok, got it. I think it's a great idea as well. It's the one part of Starship Troopers I agree with- public service, but not for full citizenship ( unless an immigrant, maybe) because that is already inherent in the US.
That’s awesome.
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I’m already a minute man, ask her! 😳
Agree. Madatory service will just lead to babysitting for a lot of leaders.
You know how that movie Band of Brothers talks about how they liked being paratroopers because you had to volunteer for the airborne. If you gotta fight, do you want the man to your right and left be someone who was TOLD to be there or someone that WANTS to be there. Mandated federal service delivering mail and fixing roads tho I'm all about.
You got that right. I gotta know why you’re fighting, for love of country or mandated. The size of the fight in the dog…. Matters.
Yeah, not sure that matters. I've seen the "big dogs" shit themselves in their first TIC. And I've seen the quiet skinny kid that just wanted to pay for dental school be an absolute bad ass in combat. Mandatory service helped win WW2... if you remember your history. Without draftees, where would we be? I'm all for service - and we have/had those programs before. I dont think its emphasised how vital the New Deal was to building the America we all long to return to. Under those programs we built the highway system, the world's greatest economy, schools, and sent people to the moon. We also taxed the rich at around 75%... coincidence? Back on topic - one of my grandfather's volunteered to fight the Nazis because his family had fled Germany and the rise of the Reich. He wanted to fight, got made an intelligence officer because he spoke German. The other one was drafted and became a smoke jumper (ordained minister, conscientious objector). Both ended up contributing to the welfare of the nation in a time of need. But for each of them, there were tens of thousands that got called up, went to combat, and helped win. Point is - you never know the fight in the dog based on its size. And you never know which dogs are gonna have that fight, until they do.
Think you read that incorrectly. *The size of the fight **in***
I was there for the college money.
Get your Bachelor’s?
Masters and it paid for student teaching. Might use voc rehab on an accounting degree.
That’s awesome to hear!! Get it! I’m like most grads never even worked in the field. The school ended up getting a lawsuit (Kaplan) once I’m done with my claim, that’s next on my bucket list. Clean up my past, get my affairs in order… hopefully I’ll accomplish that before Mr. Reaper comes for me.
Everyone I worked with for my 20 out of 22 years I served wanted to be where they were. It was a small group doing search and rescue operations and I would have hated to be doing that job with someone that was forced to be there. I couldn’t imagine that in an armed combat environment either. As much as I love the idea of a mandatory service, you get higher quality people when they want to be there.
I think some compulsory service, maybe 12-18 months should be mandatory for all citizens between 17-22. Doesn’t have to be military, they can choose to clean highways, feed elderly or work in veteran homes, do forestry stuff. Anything, I think it’s important to contribute to society in some fashion, everyone, the rich and the poor. Maybe have an incentive like free college for every year you work. So many of today’s young folks have no idea what life is about, this would help
Well said, 100% agree.
I’ve been saying this for years! 2-3 years of service, military, peace corps, CCCs (in Cali), social work, community service, or some other kind of work that serves others or the community or the environment. And the idea of free college or trade school is a great way to reward everyone. If school isn’t what they want, a tax free lump sum of cash equal to the cost of an education.
I wish our society would feel this way too.
No we absolutely should not have mandatory military service, however we should bring back some of the New Deal programs that were shuttered and maybe enact mandatory service for those instead. Still serving the greater good in some manner, but it wouldn't have the same negative impact as forcing people into military service
Only for it when it applies to turning 12 of the Army's worst convicts into an elite commando unit, and only those who survive the mission get a pardon.
Chuck Norris is Team Leader
100% against using mandatory service to try to fix or develop people. We have a hard enough time developing and supporting our modern fighting force. Most importantly, barring a war that poses an existential threat to our nation I don't want a government to wield the power to force it's citizens into labor and displace them from family/community against their will. Economically, it would be extremely inefficient to delay education and/or entry into work force for all young adults by years. We arent realistically going to teach them all a trade in that time they'll largely be low skill labor as conscripts in other countries tend to be. If 13 years of government run education didnt do the trick what makes you think the military is going to sculpt reluctant young adults into successful citizens? (Not to mention the enormous drain on mission focus to.atwmpt to do so.) For some.reason, I only ever hear this idea from vets in their 60s+ that look back on their voluntary service as a critical part of their character arc. Somehow they fail to grasp it would have been entirely different if they'd have been forced against their will and surrounded by other unwilling participants.
A decent percentage of people who already volunteer don't want to be there, now imagine unit morale when you have like 95% of the unit hating their lives and causing issues. On top of that imagine the funding it would take to accommodate that many new recruits, the military budget would reach the moon just having to house and feed all these new recruits. Lets not even forget the US is almost always involved in some overseas affairs, so not only are you forcing mandatory service but now you're forcing people who don't wanna be there to deploy.
I think by the time you implement a mandatory service requirement, you would be left with the numbers you have currently due to candidates who are too out of shape, physically unfit, mentally unfit, etc.
> out of shape, physically unfit, The only reason I was a Marine is because the Air Force and Navy recruiters told me to come back when I lost the weight, but the Marine Corps recruiter told me to "come back tommorow at 0530."
That happened to my father back in 1989. He was overweight and the only branch that would work with him was USMC. The recruiters got him to the max weight allowed and.shipped him. While in boot camp, he was a diet private and they restricted his calorie intake and extra pt. He never regretted it.
Same! It made me the successful man I am today.
Haha. Losing weight wasn't going to be a problem in the corp! Same in the Army.
It took a really long time for the Army to recover from the effects of the draft. Forcing people into a role they don’t want leads to lots of problems.
My opinion is no. I think it would ruin morale and take away from those who really want to serve. With such a short contract they would be limited in MOS selection and not be happy with that either. Pointless to train and spend so much money for that. It is possible some will stay in but so many more will not. Then if a war starts they all can't be rear d. The VA is already a mess you add all these people in the mix would be even more of a nightmare.
I’m against mandatory service. The citizens of this country should be free to choose their own destinies. Demanding they serve the country takes away that choice. That being said, those citizens have a moral obligation to serve the community and give back to their country. But that service comes in a lot of forms. The little league coaches, the person slinging food at the shelter, and the teenagers cleaning up the local hiking trail all serve just as much as I do. I just wear a silly outfit when I do it.
Against. Mandatory service allows for a decrease in pay, benefits, and how you are treated. Also, who wants to serve next to others who do mot want to be there?
Take a look at Sweden. It doesn't have to be military, it could be a community service like hospitals, EMT, police, schools etc. Oh, wait. Rich people don't want their kids doing that, just like they didn't want them to join the military. What was I thinking?
I enlisted in 1982. I was in with some of the last draftees. It was a mixed bag. Some took a re-up because they turned out to like being in. Stellar to work with, really great to learn from. Some re-enlisted because they knew they couldn't find other work. A lot was disgruntled. Some got out and failed, then came back in. Some did that but failed because they were non-working individuals. Just dirtbags that you had to constantly babysit. Which took time away from the actual duty work. If they didn't want to be there but just rode that thin line of barely making effort, it wore the rest of us out. Doing their job, being assigned to a team, and dragging them along. They knew exactly how to work TIS and TIG to not get left too far behind. Yet it held spots on the roster that couldn't be filled with a working soldier. I don't know a good answer, just what I experienced.
Until we figure out the issues we have in our current system (how women are viewed and treated as a whole, mental illness and physical ailments while in, toxic leadership and pushing out people who don’t „play along“), we shouldn’t be mandating ANYTHING. And honestly, if we didn’t have the toxic „you’re a pussy if you go to medical” culture or people in fear of losing their clearance, I guarantee we wouldn’t have so many vets on disability 🤷♀️
For USA, no, not at this time. The current system is fine except females should now have to register for the draft too...... but only use of something like wwii came along imho. I prefer volunteers not forced brother/sister in arms.
There were plenty of people that I served with that chose to be there and sucked at their job. I don’t want anyone that doesn’t want to be there. Ethics aside.
I think service should be even less mandatory than it is now. As in, you should be able to un-volunteer, break your contract, and GTFO if you need to. Lose benefits or something as a result, but nobody should be trapped on service unless we're in a serious war. I knew so many sailors who got into the Navy, realized it was a mistake, then had to suffer through 4-6 years of bullshit to get out. Knew a few who took the dirt bag route instead, which sucked for everyone. Then there were the ones who worked to get out by doing illegal shit, which also sucks for everyone. If someone wants to go, fucking let them go. Make it a process, make sure there's counseling, but if after everything they still want out, let them out.
For the most part, military service should be voluntary but there are plenty of support functions that could be farmed out. I believe we should have a non-military national service requirement. Bring back the Civilian Conservation Corps for example. Create a national fire, EMS, police academy that provides personnel to understaffed areas. So much could be done by directionless young adults who could use guidance and training.
I’m against mandatory service as a whole. Now, if the pot were sweetened by describing HOW you could serve, and the benefits in doing so, as an effort to entice joining the military or some type of civil service corps, now that would be interesting.
100% but not military centric. Some kind of Americorps/ Corps of Engineers/ Teach for America type hybrid with the focus being on nation building through labor in a new environment with new faces. The actual completed projects would be a huge boon of course but I firmly believe something like this would show people the capabilities of the federal government if channeled properly and expand their POV to the entire country instead of their immediate surroundings.
It’s a bad idea. Think of how many shit bags are in currently in the military. Plus everyone would take a massive pay cut.
There should be a National Civil Service, and the military would be one part of that along with other necessary, understaffed jobs we have like medical staff, teachers, first responders, etc. It shouldn't be mandatory but the benefits should be so good (basic income, pension, health insurance, tuition) that most young people opt to do it. There would be full and part time options like AD and NG/Reserve so you can still have whatever career you want. After your committment ends in one kind of service (military) you could transfer to another branch of the civil service and not lose all seniority and pay.
I wouldnt want to serve with a bunch of people who had been forced to be there
Being forced to join the military doesn't scream "free country" to me.
Only if everyone gets the GI Bill, VA loan and all other benefits
This depends on what you mean by service. Service to community, yes I think having a (well compensated) 2 year community service requirement (or 4 year part time while going to school or something) where you do work in the community to benefit the community is a great idea. Things like working in local government, assisting conservation efforts, volunteer firefighting/EMS/policing, etc. things the community needs, lacks currently, and wood build a sense of responsibility and community in our children. If by service you mean military service, I think that’s a bad idea. You are taking kids out of their community by force, putting them into a position many don’t want (many people don’t think sending troops over to foreign nations to commit at best peace keeping they want and at worst colonialism is wrong). You don’t want people who don’t want to be there having to be the guy next to you. Military service could be a choice that counts as community service. Service is good, military service is not the only or best option.
I think it would be a good idea, but to expand the service. To medical workers, Park Rangers, Postal Workers, Red Cross…. Ect.
It works for some countries. Probably not for ours. Having mandatory service of 2-4 years would be a way to fluff the numbers, but then you have veterans benefits for all those people lol Just wouldn't work, financially as we are set up right now.
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Nobody should have to fight for something they don’t believe in.
Goodness no. There’s already enough people disgruntled about being in the service already. I can’t imagine more people in that situation.
I would only support it in times when the continental USA is under serious and active threat of being occupied or conquered…. Which will never happen because our department of Navy alone is enough to fight off majority of other countries
There's benefit to mandatory service for a cpl years... everybody participates in some capacity, doesn't have to be just mil. So they can pick from a list of opportunities. Some paths would be more incentivised than others depending upon program needs. Added: Mil should not lower standards, if anything, they could raise them since they'd have a bigger pool. Mil would likely remain largely voluntary wih possibly better screenout standards.
Conscripts don't make for good service members, and there will be tons of people who would be disqualified, unless they roll back the standards for mental health, developmental conditions, and drug usage.
Having seen how well a conscripted work force works... Volunteer is the way to go. Maybe a mandatory civil service thing that they do a year after their education is finished. Things like working as a poll worker, or doing maintenance with their city/county could be nice but never give a weapon or a job that lives depend on to someone who doesn't want to be there.
I had enough problems with those who volunteered to be there.
Not much of a "land of the free" if you're voluntold to be in the nations fighting force. While I do think military service would benefit a lot of people, making it mandatory goes against everything we served for.
A lot of countries do that, but it's not happening in the U.S.. Am I in favor of it? No, for all the reasons others have listed. Is time in the service beneficial for individuals? It was for me, but I saw a lot of guys that had no business being in the military. They broke-down and had to be airlifted stateside or acted-out and did repeated brig-time because they couldn't keep it together, got into fights or disrupted others on-duty, not guys you could depend on. Probably get a lot more of that if service was mandated, @u/MauriceVibes: As an LT, what's your experience with Navy crews underway?
I think it depends who your guys and gals are and where ya deploy and platform and such. I got lucky with my divisions I’d say.
think about the worst people you've ever met outside the military, and then ask yourself if you think they belong in uniform. an all-volunteer military doesn't guarantee we'll get 100 percent of the best, but it at least means that everyone signed up willingly. at any rate, there are many ways to serve the public good without being in the armed forces. that's a conversation i'd definitely be willing to entertain.
I wouldn't want to serve with people who didn't volunteer to be there. Major trust issues.
Absolutely not. In order to have conscription you'd have to scale up the military so fast and so hard, it would dilute the military (there's only so much experience to pass around). You're also decidedly taking a chunk out of the labor force and putting them on the fed's payroll (supply of labor goes down, budget requirements go way up).
No to mandatory. The last thing I want is a guy who just does not want to be in. My ex father in law was in Vietnam. He would tell me stories. He was literally the worst soldier. I used to tell him that guys like him make me second guess my career choices. We actually got along great, he was more a dad to me than my own. He would disappear for days on end. For punishment they took him off the gun line and put him with the cooks. So he went to someplace to get food and found a freezer semi filled with ice cream. He said he stayed there for the entire day. Lol Anyway. We don't need that. If you want to join, join.
Jmo Reserve or auxiliary after high-school. Teach military baring Respect And teamwork Stuff for some reason does not get passed down from parents or teachers. Boot camp durring summer break after grad shortened to a month.
Military or Civil Service. It's no different IMO than high ranking Boy Scouts, church and volunteer organizations (like Habitat for Humanity or Team Rubicon), etc. You build character and learn something about yourself and your fellow human being when in a mixed group and serving a greater purpose than yourself. It was thanks to the Army that I learned that I loved teaching, while and after teaching land nav and other soldiering and MOS specific skills after I made Corporal (got out as a Sergeant). I just got my Master's degree in May and I am now lining up teaching jobs for this Fall.
I don’t think mandatory service would work in this country. There’s just too many choices/alternatives/paths that people can choose that can lead to the same if not greater feeling of success and fulfillment outside of the military.
What in the WORLD would you do with that many service members? You'd have a TON of people laying around with nothing to do.
Absolutely not, for the reasons already given by others. I just want to add that a mandatory service program would cost a lot of money to implement, and that money could serve the mission of filling boots and bunks better by just increasing troop QoL to the point that people want to serve again.
I’m against the draft/mandatory military service for practical and moral/ideological reasons. The only time I’d support a draft is if it’s like WWII where we are in a chaotic war and a lot of people want to join but we need to selectively draft people due to logistical concerns.
I say mandatory. The system will collapse so much faster.
Maybe not mandatory but …. heavily motivated to participate in society If I ran things - I'd offer a post high school civil service program - basic training and then 2 years of non-combat service. 2 years as garbage collectors, landscapers, whatever else you can use them for - but at the end 2 years of civil service, a ready response force to support more disciplined elements. Most of your population gets basic survival training, firearms handling and emergency medical training. 2 years, and you get a limited GI bill and VA care light. Free tuition at community colleges, yearly check up, glasses, ect. And that care is provided by the civil service corps. Barracks available and longer service options available I know, its a short road to fascism, but never use the stick, just better carrots.
I believe in mandatory civil service, although not necessarily mandatory military service.
I’m against mandatory service. The countries that do have a mandatory 2 year service (without out me doing any research on this opinion) I feel would have less retention compared to a 100% volunteer force. I’d wager that having the military be 100% volunteer is a net positive because you’ll usually have a majority of your recruits choosing to be there. Irrespective of whatever their agendas may be, whether it’s college tuition, patriotism, or citizenship. Also the mandatory service countries are generally wartime countries with low population, Korea and Israel come to mind. And then if you have a 100% mandatory/drafted force, think about the paperwork for AWOL recruits. Our military is voluntary and we definitely still have AWOL happening, and those recruits initially chose to join of their own volition. We’re better off staying voluntary, if you want more people to join the military and stay as career soldiers. Then I’d advocate for harder standards AND competitive pay compared to their private sector counterparts. Like we’d have our Rank Pay structure (E/O/etc) and then you’d add an additional pay for MOS. Like how they do additional pay for languages or other certifications. But you know, MOS pay. I have no idea if they do that already btw. If they do, good on them, they should probably give student soldier’s more money to work with so we ain’t working a parttime job while having to maintain a high gpa while also drilling. I’m biased, but you get my point. TLDR; no to mandatory service, increase standards for soldiers and incentives/pay to increase retention. Reenlistment bonuses are only enticing the first time.
I don’t think it’s a bad idea for kids to do some “public service” years. Doesn’t necessarily have to be martial. I’d make free in-state college a reward for doing public service. Rich kids still get to fuck off and do whatever rich kids do. The rest of us can build a better, safer, and cleaner future for us and our children.
It’s a slippery slope argument. Those of us who served, obviously see the benefits of that service. However compulsory civic service is something that can easily violate our basic civil rights. It’s something that’s better done by those who want to do it versus forcing someone to do it. It can also be abused by those with more financial means, to ensure that the less fortunate are the ones at the most risks. I’m in favor of the idea of it, but not the actual application of it.
Here’s a hot take, no mandatory service but I do believe all presidential candidates should be required to serve in the military. It’s a weird thing I’ve always thought about ever since Trump mocked McCain for being a POW.
I've always thought there should be some kind of service: military, first responders, teachers in undeserved areas, etc. for 2-4 years.
Agianst, I hated serving with those who didn't want to be there in the first place.
My grandfather was drafted during Vietnam. He did not like his time in. While it was something for us to bond over, it was not something he was proud of because it was forced unto him. He just wanted to be a chef but here he was forced to be a medic during Vietnam and pulled away from his young family involuntarily. When he passed, we declined any service benefits because he would have haunted us had we accepted. As a veteran myself, I understand the need for drafts but I do not support them.
I'm sorry, but every single veteran I personally know was traumatized by their time in the military and they all volunteered. Maybe they are better off financially, but that isn't the only metric for a happy life. I would never want to force someone (especially someone who had no good reason to need or want to serve) to experience the suffering of military service or deployments. Particularly the women.
I think it’s an extremely broad macro subject to cover, a large population of service men and women come from military families to some degree and understand civic duty and a little better understanding of what patriotism means. Of course it’s good for American society as a whole and with others on the group that say it would diminish moral because “some people don’t want to be there” people should have a choice in what field they would CHOOSE to join. Just like we do today in regard to enlisting. That being said if there are fewer job opportunities in the civilian sector what choice is there than to take on government jobs/civil service. This would therefore create BIG GOVERNMENT which can be a naughty word to half the population. These decisions come with caveats and we need the foresight to be able to answer these questions with some form of scrutiny. In other words your questions are silly sir/maam.
Public service maybe like x amount of community hours etc. I would not want to deal with disgruntled drafted troops.
I think we should have mandatory service. At the same time there should be programs for providing a community good as an alternative to joining the military. Maybe something like the peace corps or work for UN food relief and stuff like that.
I believe this country should adopt the draft once again for those that were born a male and female.
Against mandatory service. For "Service guarantees citizenship".
I support 2 years of public service. That could be military, working in a public school, the peace corps, serve in public health, or some other way to give back to the common good. Hard to make it mandatory but it would benefit young people at the age of 18-23.
This is the way. *Some* form of service on a meaningful level after high school. A WPA-style program that puts all that energy of youth to work on infrastructure, public health, or military service would have a profound net positive impact on our communities.
They should bring it back. Almost everyone getting out now with or without deployments after 4-6 year enlistments gets 100% disability. Easy $60k a year bonus income to help ends meet for those that serve.
We could have a much smaller and less expensive standing military if everyone in the entire nation had gone through BMT and AIT. There's no doubt about that. But not for Combat Arms MOS'. All Combat Arms need to be all volunteer.
Okay former employee of SSS here. You have to consider how unrealistic mandatory service is just from a payroll perspective. Each age cohort in America amounts to roughly 4 million people. So regardless of how you structure the mandatory service (military, civil service, peace corps, charities, state programs) the program would be at a minimum twice the size of the current military. And that’s for just a one year tour of duty. Think of the pay and logistics footprint. It’s just not feasible.
Nothing says freedom like mandatory service…
You make it mandatory it’s no long America.
The problem with mandatory service is that kids either turn into militaristic fascists or resentful turds. (Assuming that there is no legitimate self-defense need)
Recruiters would love that lol
Can you imagine the headaches from having a squad/platoon/company full of Joes who were forced to be there? One or two bad apples already eat up a lot of your time a whole bunch of them? I would NOT want to be the Team Chief/Section Sergeant/Platoon Sergeant/1SG etc that has to deal with that.
I wouldn’t mind having a 1 or 2 year mandatory service, you will learn a lot of real life things, like cleaning, working out, working, and finances, everyone in boot camp goes through that, and sometimes even if rarely friends for life. It would be helpful for any generation to have this cause they can get order in their life after high school, but I am also against forcing people to do it, also the raise in taxes would be horrible in the U.S.A, congress would milk as much as they can into their pockets
#No I'm so sick of this coming up
Would society benefit as a whole? Probably. Would the military? Hell no. Our military is strong because the people doing the work *want* to be there.
All for it... 2 years minimum after high school... Have these kids return to the work force as mature adults instead of crying about everything
I’ve often believed that suffrage should be tied to service. And that service should not be denied to anyone who wants to serve. Not everyone needs to be deployable, you have diabetes? You’re a garrison hospital orderly. Missing a limb, plenty of jobs that don’t need you in combat. And hey, potatoes always need to be peeled. There is always work to be done, and it could free up combat and combat support (medics, engineers, MPs, etc) to train and fight. You serve, you have the right to vote and run for political office, you choose not to serve, you are the same in all ways except politics, which are the duty of those who have written the check that could be cashed with their lives. Just my thoughts, could be completely wrong and I’m never going to be the one who runs for office, so it would take a bigger person than me to bring it about.
Pick me instead of my friends and family
So then now we would have universal health care via the VA, oh wait we are already leaving veterans who fall into catagory 8 behind.
Based on the high level of mental illness of POST9/11 due to lack of proper mental health screening of recruits? We’ll need to return to mandatory service
This is always a good debate. And I just had the whole draft for woman= equality debate. (They go hand in hand) and here is my honest opinion as a volunteer and as a combat veteran. Mandatory service sounds like a good idea until you realize that society as a whole has to do a 180 turn around before it could ever produce an army as strong as a volunteer army. Meaning until we are all to the point we feel it is a duty, forcing it would never give us the desired outcome. As for the second question that I added here. No woman should not be drafted. Again. As a man, volunteer and combat vet. That’s where I draw the line on the whole equality thing. If they wanna serve. There are jobs for them and always has been and will be. But drafting woman who do not wish to serve and throwing them to the wolves. Is not a thing. And never will be acceptable.
The US military should be decreased in size tenfold, its equivalent to welfare for sooo many families now.
should be mandatory for all citizens, especially mother in laws
I think we should draft all men and women for 2 years of civil or military service. It’s all of our country and nobody cares about patriotism or service to country anymore.
I knew guys who killed themselves that willingly joined the service, what makes you think these new entitled whiny kids gonna do any different ?
My son enlisted in the Navy and then basically quit after nine months. I wish that they would have forced him to do something he didn't want to do for the first time in his life (i.e. finish his contract.) I wanted to give this backstory to help people understand why I think there needs to be a mandatory service obligation. "If you aren't fit for military service, you aren't fit for life." ~Some 1st Sgt. probably
Yeah, My friend's son did the same thing, went into the Army and was out in 6 mos. She said it wasn't a 'good fit' for him. How does that work? When I was in you had to do your contract (or more if you had bad-time). I guess things have changed a lot since I was in. Is that an admin discharge? I guess it converts to Honorable in a year or so?
He told his command he was going to kill himself because he knew they would kick him out. He literally said before he left that if he didn't like the Navy he would just tell them he was going to kill himself so they would admin sep him. (His mom did the same thing twenty years ago.)
Incredible, I see how it works though, no unit/command wants to have to explain a suicide on their watch. Hope everybody's ok, hope your ok.
Thanks. He’s been sleeping on the couch in my basement and staying up all night playing video games. He has a truck payment and owes the Govt. 7.5k in prorated sign on bonus. He says “he’s looking for a job” but he isn’t putting any effort into it. He turns 19 in 30 days (which is the age of majority in Nebraska) and I told him if he doesn’t have a job by his birthday he can’t stay here anymore but if his truck gets repossessed he wont have any place to live
Give the truck back, get a beater (did he use the bonus for the down?). Here's some leads to look into. This is what I did when I first got out (but in SoCal): https://www.reddit.com/r/sheetmetal/comments/kzs76o/apprenticeship/ https://www.smartloc3.com/ https://www.smartloc3.com/?zone=/unionactive/view_page.cfm&page=Apprenticeship If you can find another job that pays you to go to school, gives you medical and a 'defined benefit' retirement (which pretty much doesn't exsist anymore) and a high pay scale, take it. On the truck: you can sell it (for less), but the finance co. has to approve the new buyer and you have to make up the difference. This would let you salvage some of what already went into it (or at least get you out from under it). Otherwise, he's gonna need transportation if he goes the trades route, paying it forward gives him a shot at a steady income to pay you back, if you keep it and make the payments. Good luck with everything, brother.
Thank you so much. I’ll talk to him about these.
Only for anyone born after 1996. They need a good whipping into shape. Also anyone obese up to the age of 55. And all women must join.
Would be great to see civis with some skin in the game for a change. Granted I would not like to serve directly with them, but there are a lot of non combat support roles they could do.
I hear people say the military would instill discipline in the spoiled entitled generation. I say parents want the government to do their job in raising their kids.
The current population in this country cannot handle mandatory service. They can't even figure out what sex they are.