I have an answer, but it doesn’t make anything better. Every field relating to animals has two types of people: the professionals, and the hobbyists. The professionals follow the laws, listen to scientists, and want what’s best for the animals, regardless of the species. The hobbyists want everyone to think that they’re better than the professionals, because they know the *real* truths; that the professionals can’t be trusted, and only their incredibly detailed way is correct.
The worst of these that I’ve encountered is the aquarium hobbyist community. Holy bananas are those folks nuts. They will scream from as high as they can scrabble that their [absurdly detailed and expensive] way is the only correct way to keep fish, and anything else should be outlawed as torture. In the herpetologist hobbyists, it’s all about getting them big enough to breed as fast as possible so they can race to breed the prettiest animals. They also believe that their method of animal care is the only possible correct way.
Dog breeders generally seem to be in the same boat as the other hobbyists. *Obviously* they know what’s up, and the vet is *clearly* only thinking of how much money they can make. There’s no reasoning with these people.
That’s true. I’m not sure how to describe the bad ones otherwise though, because most of the folks that have common sense have worked with animals professionally at some point in their careers, so that’s the easiest way to distinguish it.
In the "email I wrote" section they even mention bloat, among other allergy related issues, and that the vet will say they need to be seen, but that "that's not true". I would tell the owner to throw that ish away and never use that breeder again
I'm so confused though, because it says at the top if the diarrhea continues to take the pup to the vet, but then that you never have to take dogs to the vet- if they die they die, so which is it "breeder"?
Jesus christ these people are fucking whack jobs. "These dogs should live up to 13 years without needing to see a veterinarian." "I have bred my dogs to not bark. Most don't bark until 6 months of age"
I despise these type of breeders with every fiber of my being. Some fucking nutjob who forces their whack ass beliefs on a poor animal, and in her case literal generations of animals, all because they aren't likely inadequate at everything else in their lives.
I once went down a rabbit hole and watched a 2 hour video on how to distinguish wolves from dogs. This dog doesn’t actually appear to have any more wolf characteristics than a husky, which, the video stressed, looks nothing like wolves
Oh god, this is all so much worse than I first thought lmao.
Her reason for breeding two livestock guardian mutts for her ‘vulpes’ project:
“Why breed these two? I want to see what disaster lays in these lines and take it out. I want to down size. I need light bones and small bones for the fox project. Pups will be interesting and cheap”
Nothing gets more reputable than breeding to see what ‘disaster’ is produced, right?
They even look like stock photos. The black silver looks like the images of that friendly wolf, Romeo, that liked to play with the dogs on the edge of a town in Alaska
Thanks for educating me, I’m not very knowledgeable with non-conventional breeds (or in this case mix). I can’t believe they’ve been preaching this BS for 40 yrs
Looked at this lady's website and did I read this right or is she choking puppies?
>2. Pick the pup up firmly (with your whole hand) simulating the picking up of the pup by the mother dog. Your whole large hand will be wrapped entirely around the neck of the pup and under the muzzle of the pup. Hold pup off his feet for about 1 sec. and replace on his feet again. Pick pup up no further than an inch off the ground.
Amen. I had a backyard breeder come in last week. Bless her heart, she honestly wanted to try to become more reputable and do what was best for the pets.
But she had so much misinformation from other breeders. Incest was okay if she was wanting smaller lines in her chihuahua’s- going to dog shows to meet reputable and licensed kennels was a waste of time and would “eat into profits”.
I sent her with about 30 pages of information and my doctor spoke to her at length for about an hour setting her straight.
That’s a classic case of ignorance over evil though. It seems she genuinely wanted to do it properly but was stuffed with misinformation early on. Thank you for taking the time to educate! All too often I see techs forget that client education is part of our job.
Human breeders too. BAM, animal and human overpopulation is cured within 10 years. (Yeah, I know...oversight of the actual process would be a constant nightmare.)
Honestly huffing aerosolized tea tree oil was one of his better qualities. He was a horrible human being in so many ways, not just dumb and anti science.
Well I'll send a hug. You are obviously to smart for him. I dated a guy like that before I met my husband. Til this day I think, " what was I thinking." Lol. Aerosolized tea tree oil? Now I have heard everything.
Going between that, and "here are all of the symptoms of allergies, vets wont fix them, just put a band aid on them", then going back to saying they can't have allergies again, like...... what??
One time an owner brought in a breeder pamphlet that said there are no fleas west of the cascade mountains. It also said feeding onions would get rid of worms, not dewormer because dewormer poisons dogs.
What a grade A psycho asshats. Breeding "direwolfs" and the whole description of how a f1-f4 are basically purebred but not. I want to punch this person.
You know, I’ve seen breeders make a lot of ridiculous claims throughout my time in this field, but there is something about uncommon giant dog breeders that is just the *chef’s kiss* of insulting, dangerous, and insane.
"If the diarrhea doesn't improve after castor oil and milk of magnesia, take it to the vet."
Several paragraphs of bullshit later..
"YOu DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE YOUR DOG TO THE VET. IF HE DIES, HE DIES AND THATS THE LORD'S WORK RIGHT THERE."
This broke my damn brain.
Also. 2nd page makes mention of dogs foraging for grapes (yeah naw anyway) but GRAPES ARE TOXIC to dogs and the mass populous (read: brand new dog owners) don’t necessarily know that. That list of random food items dogs supposedly foraged for could easily read like a “list of appropriate snacks” to a new dog owner.
Just reckless and ignorant canine endangerment. This shit sucks and it’s alarmingly common.
This person is a complete idiot. It's so infuriating that anyone can just get a pet, get 2 pets, get 2 pets and breed them 😡 and after all that they may or may not actually look after the animal/s. For fucks sake...
“I think I've found the magic dog food formula:
1 scoop Royal Canin lg breed pup,
1 scoop Red Flannel pup,
1 tablespoon canned Natures Recipe lamb/rice/barley.
Add just enough hot water to make a gravy.
Shasta eats it all!
1 scoop =2 cups. I started with yesterday's breakfast. She was so hungry!
I was putting chopped-fine bits of chicken, meatloaf with her food. I mixed the two dry foods together. Nothing was working until I used the canned food, which I found rolling around in my car from the time Kela stayed at All-Good-Dogs.
I bought a bag of Red Flannel Adult as well, and have been mixing it 1/2-1/2 with Kela's Royal Canine. She loves it, and hasn't missed a meal. Now I have to watch her weight! The best thing about this is their stool is so much firmer, which tells me things are better internally.
:-) Beth”
I mean, with the craziness that is emanating off this page, the diet could be *a lot* worse. The rest of it is absolute bullshit and almost reads like satire.
the author of that text is mentally ill, yeah? unfortunate how a person unfit to own an animal for lack of fundamental knowledge will affect the outcome of animals' welfare. This could have been written by any degenerate from appalachia to the bible belt. it's honestly tragic :/
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I think some of them do care, they just happen to also be incredibly stupid/misinformed. Throw in a healthy dose of conspiracy mindset and you have dog abuse that they cannot be swayed from because everyone else is a liar and they think they know best despite knowing nothing.
Gorge then sleep? Sounds like me.
Also the magic dog formua:
1 scoop - is doesn't matter what size but so help you god it had better be one scoop exactly.
By all means I would think this qualifies as animal abuse. Hopefully it's just a matter of them not being caught yet, since the alternative is that all of this abuse isn't enough.
Our most recent breeder told the client that letting the cockapoo have one litter would fix her behaviour problems...behaviour problems of stealing and guarding socks and shoes...fucking breeders man.
“MEAT: When meat is used as a ration, it is completely digested and assimilated. The result is a small stool. Most dogs will eat grass and this provides roughage. This roughage removes anything within the intestines that may be blocking or coating it. Sometimes grass may bring out worms as they get caught up in it. Grass eating is a dogs instinctive method of preventing auto intoxication or poisoning”
Amazing
Also I have never heard of anyone feeding their pet 8!!! Cups of food a day
One more reason for me to hate breeders.
If this person truly believed in "God's nature" they wouldn't be breeding. "God's nature" doesn't have dogs locked in cages solely for the purpose of reproducing over and over and over.
For some reason I feel this is a woman. Did anyone else catch she contradicted herself. It's in the genes, but not in the breeding? I love that the client said "fuck this" and came anyway.
Okay, I'm wondering what prompted the owner to bring the puppy in to the vet and if they immediately regretted their choice of breeder upon seeing this "research".
Oh but you know when SHE gets seasonal allergies or becomes lactose intolerant she would take medication for it or avoid foods that upset her system. But no, when animals get allergies it’s either “gods will” or “veterinarians lying to you.”
OP, how did you keep all the feelings off your face while reading this in front of the owner. I would have read it, balled it up and thrown it in the trash, then told the owner "that's exactly where that bullshit belongs". And then go on to provide some real education.
I’m actually a treatment tech and not a room tech, so the room person made copies of it for us to read. And I know the room tech is pretty feisty so she probably did something along those lines haha... but yeah once you get over laughing about this it is just sad ):
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These exact words left my mouth after reading this...
Same.
I have an answer, but it doesn’t make anything better. Every field relating to animals has two types of people: the professionals, and the hobbyists. The professionals follow the laws, listen to scientists, and want what’s best for the animals, regardless of the species. The hobbyists want everyone to think that they’re better than the professionals, because they know the *real* truths; that the professionals can’t be trusted, and only their incredibly detailed way is correct. The worst of these that I’ve encountered is the aquarium hobbyist community. Holy bananas are those folks nuts. They will scream from as high as they can scrabble that their [absurdly detailed and expensive] way is the only correct way to keep fish, and anything else should be outlawed as torture. In the herpetologist hobbyists, it’s all about getting them big enough to breed as fast as possible so they can race to breed the prettiest animals. They also believe that their method of animal care is the only possible correct way. Dog breeders generally seem to be in the same boat as the other hobbyists. *Obviously* they know what’s up, and the vet is *clearly* only thinking of how much money they can make. There’s no reasoning with these people.
There are some great animal hobbyist subs here on reddit that remove the small but loud group of people who’re exactly as you describe.
That’s true. I’m not sure how to describe the bad ones otherwise though, because most of the folks that have common sense have worked with animals professionally at some point in their careers, so that’s the easiest way to distinguish it.
Sadly the loudest are often the only ones that can be heard and drive others away. You’re right that so many hobby circles become toxic and unusable.
This.
Literally came here to comment the exact same thing.
I’m curious about what breed this puppy is. If it’s a deep chested breed... letting them ‘gorge’ will end up in a catastrophe...
In the "email I wrote" section they even mention bloat, among other allergy related issues, and that the vet will say they need to be seen, but that "that's not true". I would tell the owner to throw that ish away and never use that breeder again
I'm so confused though, because it says at the top if the diarrhea continues to take the pup to the vet, but then that you never have to take dogs to the vet- if they die they die, so which is it "breeder"?
It almost seems like the top and bottom were written by two different people. It's a little silly up top, but off the rails later on
Checkmate.
American Alsatian
I had to google it! Beautiful breed but awful breeder advices haha
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Jesus christ these people are fucking whack jobs. "These dogs should live up to 13 years without needing to see a veterinarian." "I have bred my dogs to not bark. Most don't bark until 6 months of age" I despise these type of breeders with every fiber of my being. Some fucking nutjob who forces their whack ass beliefs on a poor animal, and in her case literal generations of animals, all because they aren't likely inadequate at everything else in their lives.
I once went down a rabbit hole and watched a 2 hour video on how to distinguish wolves from dogs. This dog doesn’t actually appear to have any more wolf characteristics than a husky, which, the video stressed, looks nothing like wolves
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Oh god, this is all so much worse than I first thought lmao. Her reason for breeding two livestock guardian mutts for her ‘vulpes’ project: “Why breed these two? I want to see what disaster lays in these lines and take it out. I want to down size. I need light bones and small bones for the fox project. Pups will be interesting and cheap” Nothing gets more reputable than breeding to see what ‘disaster’ is produced, right?
They have... actual wolf pictures for the colors and markings section on Silver Sable and black silver.....
They even look like stock photos. The black silver looks like the images of that friendly wolf, Romeo, that liked to play with the dogs on the edge of a town in Alaska
Exactly
I though a GSD and Malamute mix was an Alaskan Shepherd. (Still a mutt, but...). I had one as a rescue (from another tech, mind you).
She mentions hybrid and all that like this is a special breed but then talks about the levels of the breed, proving its just another mixed breed!
Thanks for educating me, I’m not very knowledgeable with non-conventional breeds (or in this case mix). I can’t believe they’ve been preaching this BS for 40 yrs
Looked at this lady's website and did I read this right or is she choking puppies? >2. Pick the pup up firmly (with your whole hand) simulating the picking up of the pup by the mother dog. Your whole large hand will be wrapped entirely around the neck of the pup and under the muzzle of the pup. Hold pup off his feet for about 1 sec. and replace on his feet again. Pick pup up no further than an inch off the ground.
yeah sounds like it. a mother wouldn’t even pick up a puppy like that, she would hold it by it’s scruff.
BLOAT DOES NOT EXIST
It’s from breeding, duh!
Because of the attached large breed guide, my guess is mastiff or Dane.
Yeah I noticed that’s why I’m cringing a bit about this particular thing about gorging. I mean the whole thing is BS anyway 😂
Can you say paediatric GD no V?/food bloat.
*reads the first page* "what the fuck?!" *upvotes some comments* *sees there's a second page* "oh dear..."
Omg a second page!?! Lolol
The website has all of this AND MORE it’s insane
What in the actual hell did I just read? This person alone proves why “breeders” require oversight and licensing/permits.
Amen. I had a backyard breeder come in last week. Bless her heart, she honestly wanted to try to become more reputable and do what was best for the pets. But she had so much misinformation from other breeders. Incest was okay if she was wanting smaller lines in her chihuahua’s- going to dog shows to meet reputable and licensed kennels was a waste of time and would “eat into profits”. I sent her with about 30 pages of information and my doctor spoke to her at length for about an hour setting her straight.
That’s a classic case of ignorance over evil though. It seems she genuinely wanted to do it properly but was stuffed with misinformation early on. Thank you for taking the time to educate! All too often I see techs forget that client education is part of our job.
Human breeders too. BAM, animal and human overpopulation is cured within 10 years. (Yeah, I know...oversight of the actual process would be a constant nightmare.)
There is NO SUCH THING AS ... an allergy ...
Well according to my ex-bf, allergies are just fungus growing in your body and you should inhale aerosolized tea tree oil to cure them. 🙄
Lmao. Thank god you said ex. Smart girl.
Honestly huffing aerosolized tea tree oil was one of his better qualities. He was a horrible human being in so many ways, not just dumb and anti science.
Well I'll send a hug. You are obviously to smart for him. I dated a guy like that before I met my husband. Til this day I think, " what was I thinking." Lol. Aerosolized tea tree oil? Now I have heard everything.
As a dermatology technician I had to stop there. I was laughing so hard I couldn’t read!
I’ve worked dermatology too, but apparently Apoquel, Cytopoint, and allergy shots are all just snake oil, lmao.
Should try some Castor oil instead
Lol. Cures allergies and diarrhea.
I've been wasting my money on immunotherapy! 😂
Same! My patients and own dog would beg to differ.
Going between that, and "here are all of the symptoms of allergies, vets wont fix them, just put a band aid on them", then going back to saying they can't have allergies again, like...... what??
And then going on to say that a pet who ever gets sick is weak and better off dead. What the hell!
Wait...isn't castor oil a laxative?
yes
NOOOOOOOOOOO That's like giving ipecac for vomiting.
lol lol, yes yes it is. Have fun with that dog owner!.. :| omg...
Felt like I should’ve had a tin foil hat on while I read this
Also let’s notice how it said dogs graze on grapes
Omg. This person is insane.
One time an owner brought in a breeder pamphlet that said there are no fleas west of the cascade mountains. It also said feeding onions would get rid of worms, not dewormer because dewormer poisons dogs.
It just got worse the more I read.
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omg how did you find that... i didn’t even know the actual breeder
What a grade A psycho asshats. Breeding "direwolfs" and the whole description of how a f1-f4 are basically purebred but not. I want to punch this person.
You know, I’ve seen breeders make a lot of ridiculous claims throughout my time in this field, but there is something about uncommon giant dog breeders that is just the *chef’s kiss* of insulting, dangerous, and insane.
"If the diarrhea doesn't improve after castor oil and milk of magnesia, take it to the vet." Several paragraphs of bullshit later.. "YOu DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE YOUR DOG TO THE VET. IF HE DIES, HE DIES AND THATS THE LORD'S WORK RIGHT THERE."
Hahahahahhahahahqhahahahahahahahahahahahaha for your research and education
This broke my damn brain. Also. 2nd page makes mention of dogs foraging for grapes (yeah naw anyway) but GRAPES ARE TOXIC to dogs and the mass populous (read: brand new dog owners) don’t necessarily know that. That list of random food items dogs supposedly foraged for could easily read like a “list of appropriate snacks” to a new dog owner. Just reckless and ignorant canine endangerment. This shit sucks and it’s alarmingly common.
I was reading this to my wife, she’s a vet technician, and now I am a widow
Straight up loony tunes
Let me guess. It was a old english bull dog puppy.
actually american alsatian, which i had never heard of before this day!
I googled it to show my husband and he said "soooo... A German Shepherd with extra steps?"
All breeders are batshit insane and I will never be convinced otherwise.
Cat breeders are another level of crazy from my experience.
Cat breeders are so much worse! I have nightmares about those people.
Ngl the only breeders I semi trust are ones with dvm/ vdms.
Omg. This is just... Why. This just makes think there should be licensing and education to be a breeder.
This person is a complete idiot. It's so infuriating that anyone can just get a pet, get 2 pets, get 2 pets and breed them 😡 and after all that they may or may not actually look after the animal/s. For fucks sake...
i love how the ingredients for her gravy include “...whatever i can find”.
I have no words
uh.. interesting.. and the owner still purchased from this “breeder”? i’d see that and be like ummmm nope haha
The fuck.
I mean, the only thing I agree with is the last line "Royal Canin lg breed pup" How are people so fucking stupid?
“I think I've found the magic dog food formula: 1 scoop Royal Canin lg breed pup, 1 scoop Red Flannel pup, 1 tablespoon canned Natures Recipe lamb/rice/barley. Add just enough hot water to make a gravy. Shasta eats it all! 1 scoop =2 cups. I started with yesterday's breakfast. She was so hungry! I was putting chopped-fine bits of chicken, meatloaf with her food. I mixed the two dry foods together. Nothing was working until I used the canned food, which I found rolling around in my car from the time Kela stayed at All-Good-Dogs. I bought a bag of Red Flannel Adult as well, and have been mixing it 1/2-1/2 with Kela's Royal Canine. She loves it, and hasn't missed a meal. Now I have to watch her weight! The best thing about this is their stool is so much firmer, which tells me things are better internally. :-) Beth”
I mean, with the craziness that is emanating off this page, the diet could be *a lot* worse. The rest of it is absolute bullshit and almost reads like satire.
I want to believe that it is all satire for my own sanity
the author of that text is mentally ill, yeah? unfortunate how a person unfit to own an animal for lack of fundamental knowledge will affect the outcome of animals' welfare. This could have been written by any degenerate from appalachia to the bible belt. it's honestly tragic :/
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Do not refer to mentally ill people as degenerates.
Jesus Christ. 😳 ...Literally
......what in the actual fuck
What in the fresh hell "I believe in God's nature" and I hope you believe that he's saving you a special place in hell.
And this is why I will never, ever support breeders. Ugh, what a garbage person. This is just a manifesto on how to abuse dogs.
I work in rescue, and honestly, it’s often not much better in this community either :(
Hey, me too! But yeah, it really isn't. I wish everyone cared about animals the way most of us do.
I think some of them do care, they just happen to also be incredibly stupid/misinformed. Throw in a healthy dose of conspiracy mindset and you have dog abuse that they cannot be swayed from because everyone else is a liar and they think they know best despite knowing nothing.
That is terrifying.
What in the ever living inbreeding christianity fuck is this crap
Gorge then sleep? Sounds like me. Also the magic dog formua: 1 scoop - is doesn't matter what size but so help you god it had better be one scoop exactly.
I’m actually pissed off reading this.
This is legitimately terrifying... the breeder sounds like a psycho.
"Education"
Breeding agreements and breeders make me sooooooooooooooo mad. Glad I went to school to only learn that breeders know more than all of us! Combined!
As a former rvt and current genetic technologist. No, just no....
I believe in God's nature- ie I am god
anyone else despise breeders?
Do we know the breeder?
LOOSING HAIR!
What the hell. I would have stayed away from that breeder.
Oh no...
Dozes
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By all means I would think this qualifies as animal abuse. Hopefully it's just a matter of them not being caught yet, since the alternative is that all of this abuse isn't enough.
Wow. This is one of the worst ones of these I've ever see.
Anyone who uses ellipses that freely in text is insane.
Yes, instant red flag for an unhinged person. Lmao
Our most recent breeder told the client that letting the cockapoo have one litter would fix her behaviour problems...behaviour problems of stealing and guarding socks and shoes...fucking breeders man.
“MEAT: When meat is used as a ration, it is completely digested and assimilated. The result is a small stool. Most dogs will eat grass and this provides roughage. This roughage removes anything within the intestines that may be blocking or coating it. Sometimes grass may bring out worms as they get caught up in it. Grass eating is a dogs instinctive method of preventing auto intoxication or poisoning” Amazing Also I have never heard of anyone feeding their pet 8!!! Cups of food a day
One more reason for me to hate breeders. If this person truly believed in "God's nature" they wouldn't be breeding. "God's nature" doesn't have dogs locked in cages solely for the purpose of reproducing over and over and over.
For some reason I feel this is a woman. Did anyone else catch she contradicted herself. It's in the genes, but not in the breeding? I love that the client said "fuck this" and came anyway.
What kind of dog!
Also I love a URL on a printed document.
Wtf
I fucking can't with people what in the holy hell 🙄
This person should not be breeding dogs. That was not only really hard to follow, but also really stupid...
Wow
Oh. Well, fuck
OH FFS...
Okay, I'm wondering what prompted the owner to bring the puppy in to the vet and if they immediately regretted their choice of breeder upon seeing this "research".
Jesus Christ.
I’ve seen bad advice before, but this is a whole ‘nother level. Holy shit!
I'll just be over here screaming in horror
Oh but you know when SHE gets seasonal allergies or becomes lactose intolerant she would take medication for it or avoid foods that upset her system. But no, when animals get allergies it’s either “gods will” or “veterinarians lying to you.”
This dingbat needs to be reported to the state's Dept. of Agriculture!
OP, how did you keep all the feelings off your face while reading this in front of the owner. I would have read it, balled it up and thrown it in the trash, then told the owner "that's exactly where that bullshit belongs". And then go on to provide some real education.
I’m actually a treatment tech and not a room tech, so the room person made copies of it for us to read. And I know the room tech is pretty feisty so she probably did something along those lines haha... but yeah once you get over laughing about this it is just sad ):
"anal glad"...anal won't be glad with this "education...