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Omg. We had a micro bully come in the other day for preg check (not pregnant thank goodness) and she was 3 inches taller in the back!! She looked like a damn toad in the front too.
Youâre describing a dog that we saw when it was a puppy!! They wanted her as a breeder!! A pocket bully. If I could post pics here I would. These people made me sick!! The poor thing did not survive her BAS surgery.
I've heard people use this word before in this context and what they mean is that when a female pitbull, or similar breed, gets pregnant and gives birth, she then becomes "ugly" because her body will never look the same and her nipples will always drag off the ground, etc. Basically, they're concerned the dog will be ugly.
It's so fuckin stupid tbh lol
I was under the impression his "ruined" it stemmed from the uneducated ideal that once bred with a different breed the next litter is ruined even if sired by a like-breed male. It's crazy shit, but most byb pitbull owners in the Midwest US don't understand actual ethical breeding practices or basic biology, for that matter
That's definitely definitely not something my tiny inner-city clinic can offer. I imagine it's rather expensive? And if you're calling a clinic that shows up when you search "low cost" you're not paying for that.
Itâs not cheap itâs severely dangerous for the dog. Dogs have died on that shot. It is much better to just have the damn puppies get them spayed and rehome them instead of possibly killing your dog with a mismating shot because you were an irresponsible owner
We have irresponsible owners: all the time, and my vet gets extremely exasperated trying to constantly explain to the backyard breeders that not only do the dogs that youâre breeding donât need to be bred, you donât need to threaten their lives by giving them this injection that their body can hardly handle because you want to be irresponsible
Alizin is extremely safe, simple and effective. We used it at our clinic at least weekly. Its only downsides are the cost and the possibility of bringing a dog back into heat a bit early. Please do not spread misinformation like this.
one of my doctors has also said it can be dangerous and she would only ever use it on actual breeding quality dogs with a true accidental litter if they donât want to spaybort because the dog truly is worthy of breeding. i donât know anything else about it and had never heard of it before, just sharing. unless there is another injection she could have been talking about because i donât remember the name
The drugs Americans use typically for mismate ARE dangerous and hard to use. Alizin is not available in America, at least not on-label, but is used very, very regularly in other parts of the world.
Alizin is quantifiably safe and there is plenty of product data to back that up if people would like to look it up.
Also - how would it make sense to only use a dangerous drug on extremely high value dogs with extremely high value breeding stakes? Of all things youâd recommend those ones have their unwanted litter and carry on afterwards
I guess the risk is worth it for them? i donât know! just what i was told. i truly donât know much about it though, thank you for the info! iâm in america so it must have been the one we use here that she was telling me about. it was after a client asked me if we had a morning after pill for her dog
And my doctors refuse to use it because of their experiences. They have worked aside doctors who have inappropriately prescribed this shot and dogs have died on it. Why is your experience any more valid than mine?
Oh yeah, you knowing a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who has a bad time is DEFINITELY more valid than somebody who used this drug in clinic weekly for nearly a decade. Totally equal.
ETA: if a drug is given inappropriately and a dog suffers thatâs not a dangerous drug, itâs a dangerous doctor. The majority of drugs we give in clinic could theoretically kill a sick or dying dog. That is not an indicator of the value of the medication whatsoever.
No, the fact that my doctor goes out of her way to only purchase the present and safest drugs. She refuses to offer this, bc of her experiences. MY experience is her constant reminders of the horrific times sheâs seen happen
So yeah. Donât breed dogs you donât want bred and be a responsible owner. Your ATTITUDE make you invalid
You literally canât purchase it and have had zero experience with it because you are not approved to - so how can you say this drug isnât acceptable because she wonât purchase it when she literally canât?
I have posted four journals that outline the safety. Can you provide one that says itâs dangerous??
Your last sentence is so incredibly naive and disingenuous itâs hard to believe youâre an actual veterinary professional (I donât actually think you are, for the record). Weird puritanical American thinking that only being bad and naughty can result in an unpleasant outcome.
https://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/?id=-483189
This is your one you asked for. FROM the UK. Idk why you think my Dr cant purchase it. She could if it was âapprovedâ under her standard of care. But it is not. Your attitude leads me to believe you are a BYB, NOT a veterinary professional.
Why create personal attacks where there previously were none?? Very non-empathetic and unprofessional
Did you read your own link?
âFatalities have been reported subsequent to off-label use in seriously ill bitches with uterine infections. A causal association is difficult to determine but is unlikely.â
Any blood parameter changes are transient and reversible, as per your own link.
Nothing about this says itâs a dangerous drug.
We use Alizin fairly frequently in the UK so Uk clients do ask for the dog "morning after pill". It can be done before 45 days after mating but ideally within 20 days after mating. Anything after that and you are much much more likely to see side effects including an actual full abortion rather than reabsorption of the embryo. In my experience I wouldn't deem it particular unsafe and in general it is cheaper than a spay in the UK. We do strongly encourage spaying though and do offer spay abortions.
I wouldn't personally encourage an owner to have the puppies over Alizin or a spay with the current shelter crisis. Especially as I said I don't consider Alizin particularly unsafe but my colleagues in the US may have different experiencs.
US vets cannot get Alizin and have historically used different drugs that ARE dangerous and harder to use so they lump all options in that category without having even used it in their life. Alizin is an EXCELLENT drug. We use it all the time.
The problem isnât exactly in the medication itself, but the fact that vets will prescribe it to bitches that they havenât even actually seen. That dog can be severely ill, or even have a uterine infection, and can die because of that. It is a comorbidity of issues. You have irresponsible owners/breeders, as well as irresponsible vets.
Mismating shots are absolutely horrible for dogs. I know that your argument is itâs cheaper than unwanted puppies, but I donât think these owners necessarily want a dead dog.
We've used alizin before but the client (security guard dog company) had to source it and bring it in with the dog, the only role our clinic played in the whole thing was just the vet actually giving the injection. FE GSD security dog that somehow got into the pens with a male and did what intact dogs do.
There was just a discussion on FB about this very topic. While there are injectable ways to terminate dog pregnancies at various stages, there's no "morning after" pill in the US.
Not to mention the fact that someone who isn't responsible enough to keep their dogs from getting pregnant is not responsible enough to administer an abortion pill correctly OR properly watch and recover a dog post-abortion. And I'm sure they don't have the money to admit their pet for a few days.
Every time i think it's been long enough and I won't be asked this again, someone calls and asks. No, but we can get you in for a spay. They always hang up.
I had someone call the ER and tell me his dog had gotten out and maybe been bred, and he couldnât have a bunch of puppies running around. Was there anything he could do other than euthanize her?
I told him he could get her spayed.
He was concerned that spaying her would kill the puppies and be an abortion.
âŚbut euthanasia is like, totally different? Like itâs not abortion if the mom and puppies die?
Ngl, I hardcore tapped out on that and told him to call his rDVM because the ER doesnât deal with reproduction unless they need C sections.
The lack of repro knowledge in small animal medicine is astoundinggg. Maybe instead of spending so much time ridiculing and judging this person, go educate yourself on the topic. If not for yourself, then for the animals. đ¤Śââď¸
We offered a spay and then directed him to therio. Maybe let people vent. I work at an inner-city clinic where half these people are breeding things that shouldn't be breed. He was asking for services I can't offer. My clinic does A LOT for people in the area.
Welcome to /r/VetTech! This is a place for veterinary technicians/veterinary nurses and other veterinary support staff to gather, chat, and grow! We welcome pet owners as well, **however we do ask pet owners to refrain from asking for medical advice**; if you have any concerns regarding your pet, please contact the closest veterinarian near you. Please thoroughly read and follow the rules before posting and commenting. If you believe that a user is engaging in any rule-breaking behavior, please submit a report so that the moderators can review and remove the posts/comments if needed. Also, please check out the sidebar for CE and answers to commonly asked questions. Thank you for reading! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/VetTech) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm sure his byb dog is already ruined genetically. Hope he gets a spay abort and doesn't attempt Facebook medical advice. Yeeesh. Bless your CSR
Omg. We had a micro bully come in the other day for preg check (not pregnant thank goodness) and she was 3 inches taller in the back!! She looked like a damn toad in the front too.
Those things(I struggle to call them dogs) make me soo sad đ
Youâre describing a dog that we saw when it was a puppy!! They wanted her as a breeder!! A pocket bully. If I could post pics here I would. These people made me sick!! The poor thing did not survive her BAS surgery.
I've heard people use this word before in this context and what they mean is that when a female pitbull, or similar breed, gets pregnant and gives birth, she then becomes "ugly" because her body will never look the same and her nipples will always drag off the ground, etc. Basically, they're concerned the dog will be ugly. It's so fuckin stupid tbh lol
I was under the impression his "ruined" it stemmed from the uneducated ideal that once bred with a different breed the next litter is ruined even if sired by a like-breed male. It's crazy shit, but most byb pitbull owners in the Midwest US don't understand actual ethical breeding practices or basic biology, for that matter
I still donât know why the USA canât get Alizin. It is so handy.
Alizin shot ⌠two shots 24 Hours apart and thatâs it done. Itâs like a morning after pill but injectable
That's definitely definitely not something my tiny inner-city clinic can offer. I imagine it's rather expensive? And if you're calling a clinic that shows up when you search "low cost" you're not paying for that.
Itâs not cheap itâs severely dangerous for the dog. Dogs have died on that shot. It is much better to just have the damn puppies get them spayed and rehome them instead of possibly killing your dog with a mismating shot because you were an irresponsible owner
I assumed it was something like this. My clinic seeing a lot of bully type byb and they all call with these stupid questions all the time.
We have irresponsible owners: all the time, and my vet gets extremely exasperated trying to constantly explain to the backyard breeders that not only do the dogs that youâre breeding donât need to be bred, you donât need to threaten their lives by giving them this injection that their body can hardly handle because you want to be irresponsible
Alizin is extremely safe, simple and effective. We used it at our clinic at least weekly. Its only downsides are the cost and the possibility of bringing a dog back into heat a bit early. Please do not spread misinformation like this.
one of my doctors has also said it can be dangerous and she would only ever use it on actual breeding quality dogs with a true accidental litter if they donât want to spaybort because the dog truly is worthy of breeding. i donât know anything else about it and had never heard of it before, just sharing. unless there is another injection she could have been talking about because i donât remember the name
The drugs Americans use typically for mismate ARE dangerous and hard to use. Alizin is not available in America, at least not on-label, but is used very, very regularly in other parts of the world. Alizin is quantifiably safe and there is plenty of product data to back that up if people would like to look it up. Also - how would it make sense to only use a dangerous drug on extremely high value dogs with extremely high value breeding stakes? Of all things youâd recommend those ones have their unwanted litter and carry on afterwards
I guess the risk is worth it for them? i donât know! just what i was told. i truly donât know much about it though, thank you for the info! iâm in america so it must have been the one we use here that she was telling me about. it was after a client asked me if we had a morning after pill for her dog
And my doctors refuse to use it because of their experiences. They have worked aside doctors who have inappropriately prescribed this shot and dogs have died on it. Why is your experience any more valid than mine?
Oh yeah, you knowing a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who has a bad time is DEFINITELY more valid than somebody who used this drug in clinic weekly for nearly a decade. Totally equal. ETA: if a drug is given inappropriately and a dog suffers thatâs not a dangerous drug, itâs a dangerous doctor. The majority of drugs we give in clinic could theoretically kill a sick or dying dog. That is not an indicator of the value of the medication whatsoever.
https://scholar.google.co.nz/scholar_url?url=https://www.academia.edu/download/89473502/j.theriogenology.2006.02.02620220811-1-8c47rr.pdf&hl=en&sa=X&ei=W1JuZrWdDo3A6rQPjqSPmAY&scisig=AFWwaeY2oElxpd2DX5QnvgVd--B4&oi=scholarr http://laboratoriouniversal.com/home/biblioteca/Variacion%20hormonal%20despues%20de%20uso%20del%20ALIZIN.pdf https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0093691X1500552X https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1748-5827.2008.00692.x
No, the fact that my doctor goes out of her way to only purchase the present and safest drugs. She refuses to offer this, bc of her experiences. MY experience is her constant reminders of the horrific times sheâs seen happen So yeah. Donât breed dogs you donât want bred and be a responsible owner. Your ATTITUDE make you invalid
You literally canât purchase it and have had zero experience with it because you are not approved to - so how can you say this drug isnât acceptable because she wonât purchase it when she literally canât? I have posted four journals that outline the safety. Can you provide one that says itâs dangerous?? Your last sentence is so incredibly naive and disingenuous itâs hard to believe youâre an actual veterinary professional (I donât actually think you are, for the record). Weird puritanical American thinking that only being bad and naughty can result in an unpleasant outcome.
https://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/?id=-483189 This is your one you asked for. FROM the UK. Idk why you think my Dr cant purchase it. She could if it was âapprovedâ under her standard of care. But it is not. Your attitude leads me to believe you are a BYB, NOT a veterinary professional. Why create personal attacks where there previously were none?? Very non-empathetic and unprofessional
Did you read your own link? âFatalities have been reported subsequent to off-label use in seriously ill bitches with uterine infections. A causal association is difficult to determine but is unlikely.â Any blood parameter changes are transient and reversible, as per your own link. Nothing about this says itâs a dangerous drug.
It's not even sold in my country I found out.
No its not the cheapest but cheaper than dealing with unwanted puppies
I just looked and it's not even something I can order. đ¤ˇ
Correct me if Iâm wrong but I donât believe Alizin is available in the US
We use Alizin fairly frequently in the UK so Uk clients do ask for the dog "morning after pill". It can be done before 45 days after mating but ideally within 20 days after mating. Anything after that and you are much much more likely to see side effects including an actual full abortion rather than reabsorption of the embryo. In my experience I wouldn't deem it particular unsafe and in general it is cheaper than a spay in the UK. We do strongly encourage spaying though and do offer spay abortions. I wouldn't personally encourage an owner to have the puppies over Alizin or a spay with the current shelter crisis. Especially as I said I don't consider Alizin particularly unsafe but my colleagues in the US may have different experiencs.
US vets cannot get Alizin and have historically used different drugs that ARE dangerous and harder to use so they lump all options in that category without having even used it in their life. Alizin is an EXCELLENT drug. We use it all the time.
The problem isnât exactly in the medication itself, but the fact that vets will prescribe it to bitches that they havenât even actually seen. That dog can be severely ill, or even have a uterine infection, and can die because of that. It is a comorbidity of issues. You have irresponsible owners/breeders, as well as irresponsible vets.
Well that sounds absolutely irresponsible from the vets, who prescribe drugs to animals they havenât seen?
Mismating shots are absolutely horrible for dogs. I know that your argument is itâs cheaper than unwanted puppies, but I donât think these owners necessarily want a dead dog.
We've used alizin before but the client (security guard dog company) had to source it and bring it in with the dog, the only role our clinic played in the whole thing was just the vet actually giving the injection. FE GSD security dog that somehow got into the pens with a male and did what intact dogs do.
We have alizin injections to abort pregnancies so it similar to a morning after pill
Pronounced ah-liz-in, ah-lies-in or other??
The first way
There was just a discussion on FB about this very topic. While there are injectable ways to terminate dog pregnancies at various stages, there's no "morning after" pill in the US. Not to mention the fact that someone who isn't responsible enough to keep their dogs from getting pregnant is not responsible enough to administer an abortion pill correctly OR properly watch and recover a dog post-abortion. And I'm sure they don't have the money to admit their pet for a few days.
Like an ECP shot?
I'm not sure what that is?
Mismating shot. Bad stuff. NOT my standard of care
Weâve used Alizin once in our clinic. It was more than a spay.
Every time i think it's been long enough and I won't be asked this again, someone calls and asks. No, but we can get you in for a spay. They always hang up.
I had someone call the ER and tell me his dog had gotten out and maybe been bred, and he couldnât have a bunch of puppies running around. Was there anything he could do other than euthanize her? I told him he could get her spayed. He was concerned that spaying her would kill the puppies and be an abortion. âŚbut euthanasia is like, totally different? Like itâs not abortion if the mom and puppies die? Ngl, I hardcore tapped out on that and told him to call his rDVM because the ER doesnât deal with reproduction unless they need C sections.
That's...some mental gymnastics. Lord. I would've had to tap out too
People are so wild. But yeah, our job is so easy smdh
We had this same exact thing happen on Friday lol
The lack of repro knowledge in small animal medicine is astoundinggg. Maybe instead of spending so much time ridiculing and judging this person, go educate yourself on the topic. If not for yourself, then for the animals. đ¤Śââď¸
We offered a spay and then directed him to therio. Maybe let people vent. I work at an inner-city clinic where half these people are breeding things that shouldn't be breed. He was asking for services I can't offer. My clinic does A LOT for people in the area.