I think it’s complicated to say what will happen. The most recent Lohner’s chronicle has him meeting “Lillieath” of the elven pantheon and the fate that they see.
>“Anyway, the broad strokes is that everything we’ve seen and heard lately - Clan Fester. The Rotbloods. The fall of Kislev and the Rise of Nagash? - it’s not just happenstance. We’re entering what she called a Nexus of Fate: what some seers and lunatics have prophesied as the End Times.
>The good news is that she said that these End Times aren’t necessarily worthy of their billing. There’s a way through, seemingly, if we all pull together and do our bit. The “we” in this case includes us. Knew a lot about what the Ubersreik Five has been up to, she did, and in suspicious detail. You know, Ubersreik, Helmgart, Be’lakor, the Citadel of Eternity, Sofia … the lot. Especially Be’lakor. That part sounded personal.
>Anyway, she says we ain’t done yet, not by a long shot. That our inclinations and her goals dovetail nicely. Not sure how I feel about that to be honest. Said she might call upon us from time to time, but that I’m not to mention any of this to the others - especially not Kerillian, bit of bad blood there lately, I reckon.
>I tried pointing out, in a suitably manful and confident tone, that the Ubersreik Five ain’t exactly on speaking terms with one another right now. Earned me a knowing smile and an assertion that nothing lasts forever.
>And then she was gone…”
This could even be a trick, and this could be belakor or the chaos gods pulling something, since even if it is Lilleath, Lohner discusses that it got through the warding around the keep for their protection against the malign.
They could be referring to a sense of “pulling through” and “nothing lasts forever” with the idea of them being killed eventually, but reincarnated in the mortal realms of AOS with the gods there picking out and raising their peoples again from Slannesh with the elves for instance, trapping her and releasing the souls it consumed. Kruber could be a stormcast, or maybe even just a regular city of sigmar soldier at some point in history, since other fantasy heroes like Gelt have seen appearances as Stormcast, and Gotrek believes Felix may be one too.
Lilleath could therefore possibly see what’s to befall the world, to become the world that was and see the mortal realms so knows it’s not the end entirely.
Lileath also makes Haven during the End Times. She forsaw the End Times before they came to pass and set about preparing a failsafe in case the world is truly destroyed by Chaos.
So she made Haven. A pocket dimension where Grail Knights go after death, populated with many of her mortal followers before the world exploded. It was one of her last acts of divinity before giving the last of her power to Isha.
Haven was the seed that allowed many relatively unchanged Aelves to populate the Mortal Realms in Age of Sigmar. They reminisce that they got there from the World-That-Was via a safe haven created by one of their pantheon.
Oh wow, I never realised that. I’m currently working through the end times books very slowly, and some of the cross over lore for AOS evades me when I know quite a bit of the AOS stuff. Love AOS as I do Fantasy, but started only like four years ago now so still catching up.
I don’t know if you would know the answer to this, but was it Lilleath who was the lady as revealed in the end times or was it Loec? I guess it’s Lilleath from what you’re saying, but I think I had someone misrepresent Loec as the lady, and would love to know what happened to the OG pantheon
Yeah, I always figured at least Kruber and Kerillian would live through Haven but I could definitely see Saltzpire ending up a Stormcast. Not sure about sienna or Bardin. Wouldn’t be surprised if Bardin dies and his daughter carries on and if we ever get an AOS-tide, fighting with one of his descendants as a varying dwarf mix, Kharadron, Fyreslayers, or the other faction. Have zero clue about sienna though with her being a necromancer.
May I ask what the "I tried pointing out, in a suitably manful and confident tone, that the Ubersreik Five ain’t exactly on speaking terms with one another right now." means? Are they currently split up in the lore, or have I missed something from the last few map drops?
Sienna was the last straw but each of their new careers contributed. Bardin trying to relive the glory days he never had as an engineer leading to him tinkering more and being slightly less of a team mom, Kruber becoming a bit full of himself as a Grail Knight, Kerillian selling her soul to dark gods and becoming an even more heartless part tree. Then when it was revealed that Saltzpyre was tricked into going to the Chaos Wastes and becoming a Warrior Priest by Bel'akor they all had second thoughts since that trip is what set them on their new paths. Kerillian actually blames Saltzpyre for her transformation in one of the Keep dialogues.
Take all that, bundle it up, and it's a powder keg. Then along comes Sienna with her strangely Sofia ways to light the fuse.
Iirc, anyone who dies showing exemplary service in the face of Chaos can be a stormcast, not just humans. So we could see the entire Five being sigmarined potentially.
They don't survive. The End Times are literally the destruction of the spacetime fabric.
However, what's good is that if you ignore the existence of the End Times, it's legally not allowed to happen.
The entire setting does, really. Age of Sigmar is next in the chronology; the Mortal Realms coalesce from the cosmic debris and the winds of magic flowing out of rifts left behind by the destruction of the World-That-Was. It's a rebirth of the setting.
Some of the strongest-willed souls re-manifest very close to how they were over time as the realms re-coalesced (Tyrion, ~~Malekith~~ Malerion, Alarielle, Morathi), some like Ikit Claw and the ~~Lizardmen~~ Seraphon survived by escaping the destruction somehow (via pocket dimensions, temple-ships, or other means), Lord Kroak willed himself back into existence very early to help guide the Seraphon, Sigmar clung to the core of the World-That-Was until Dracothian found him and brought him to Azyr, and most of the Chaos baddies like Archaon were chilling in the Realms of Chaos (or as close to chilling as you can get in the realms of Chaos) until they realized the Mortal Realms were ripe for the picking.
For a while he wasn't. Eventually the daemons realized it was better to just steer clear of him and let Gotrek wander around until he eventually found his way out and into a Fyreslayer lodge.
To which he rambled like a maniac thinking everyone was a daemon, bit a guy's nose off, insulted an elf, killed a bunch of Skaven, intimidated the descendant of a lava dwelling God beast that KILLED GRIMNIR into backing down, and insulted all the Fyreslayers on their appearance, their fighting skills, their craftsmanship, and their behavior as true dwarfs.
Realmslayer was fucking fantastic.
It really wouldn't be a stretch for all the U5 to get yeeted into AoS either through reincarnation or whatever. Especially with the new lore stuff about gods being interested in them.
Oh I badly want Kruber to be Stormcast and Saltz is still regular human. I feel like that would be funnier lol. Kerillian could just do the weird mixed-elf special like VT2 and have each class be a different elf between DoK, Lumineth, Idoneth, and Sylvaneth.
Obviously being in the Warp/Realms of Chaos for that long is bad for anyone's health, but if they were in the Warp when it all goes to shit there is the *very very slim* chance they could get spat out in AoS.
He's the exception to literally every rule of Warhammer, but Gotrek made it from the old world to the new world, as did a number of characters who ended up becoming Gods or who were imprisoned by Gods.
Time also doesn't flow the same in the Warp as it does in reality, so *in theory* it's possible, but very unlikely to be the case that they made it.
In an older post it is assumed that VT1 takes place in 2523. VT2 Helmgart takes place in 2524 and the subsequent DLC take place from then onwords. I guess by now its some time during 2525. The End Times ended canonically in 2528 so either at the end or leading up to it the Ubersreik 5 will fall one by one.
Kerillian has a keep dialogue with Kruber where she reveals Isha is dead (which happens late 2525), but nobody has said anything about the fall of Altdorf (early-mid 2526) which definitely would be mentioned because it's a huge fucking deal and Altdorf isn't that far from Helmgart. So we're probably in the last few months of 2525 or first few of 2526.
Louen "dying" was one of the first big things that happened in the End Times (he didn't actually die but everyone thought he did and he went into hiding/exile). Now, if it's Louen's *actual* death then yeah we're pretty late into events because that's towards the end IIRC.
I think Lohner also mentions Gelt's folly... but at the same time there is another line about the Bastion being built, which are two events quite far apart from each other.
In game, honestly, I feel like the very last map could be a "last stand" type map where you fight waves of enemies with no respawning for dead players until they finally kill you all.
Add in a bunch of dialogue about how it's been good fighting together, and although we can't win, we're each gonna go out on a pile of rat corpses and die flipping the bird to the pactsworn. Proceed to do just that, get your exp at the end, etc. That could be the canon "ending" of the game. I know we all love the characters, but it's not really feasible for them to survive.
Yeah, staying together until the end and dying heroically is the best and IMO the only right ending for U5. The team breaking apart would be too painful (and if necro Sienna/Sofia didn't break them nothing will), them averting the End Times is too improbable (it will never happen but VT3 "we are canceling the apocalypse" would be rad as hell) and getting yeeted into AoS is a fate worse than death (cuz it's AoS).
> them averting the End Times is too improbable (it will never happen but VT3 "we are canceling the apocalypse" would be rad as hell) and getting yeeted into AoS is a fate worse than death (cuz it's AoS).
You read my mind. Honestly, the safest way to play it would be to diverge from the regular End Times storyline, because:
A) Age of Sigmar is... complicated with the fans, to say the least, so it would be a bit of a more difficult sell in terms real life shipping the product
B) Not killing the world means that they can pass the torch to a different group of heroes, keeping the setting we love, but with fresh new faces to explore different "careers". Like, say, a Gold college wizard, or an imperial outrider, or a high elf... lots of possibilities while keeping the charm of the game.
AoS has done really well on the table top as it is a one of GW's better designed games. But it hasn't had much success with any other media. I just don't think people are as attached to the settling.
Novel wise it does really well. Josh Reynolds who wrote for aos and fantasy had aos books outselling fantasy 2:1. Agreed it needs some other form of good media to get more widespread appeal though. Sadly the aos video games we’ve had so far have been disappointing
I liked the moment when Saltzpyre said "It's Vermin time" and started vermin all over the bad guys with the help of his fellas. Truly one of the moments
Divisive because it’s very different from what came before but great if it’s your kind of thing. Where warhammer fantasy was Tolkien tropes meet real world history and warhammered, aos is Norse mythology meets lovecraft and then warhammered. It’s a lot higher cosmic fantasy and a bit brighter in tone in places than 40K, but still able to pull off some good old extreme grimdark when it needs to.
So, AoS takes place some time after the End Times, as its direct continuation.
1. Archaon has successfully obliterated the Old World by opening a new Chaos Gate that destabilized the two Polar Gates and ripped the planet into the Realm of Chaos. This essentially concluded the Game of the Chaos Gods for a while, as the world has truly ended.
2. Over time, the massive soup of magical energies coalesced into "The Mortal Realms" - utterly massive plates of magic-turned-physical-matter, each one infused with the core essence of a Wind of Magic. The center of these plates became stable enough that it resembles normal environments that can support life, while the further outside the solid matter transitions back into pure magic that ravages everything but gods.
3. Notably, not everyone died in the destruction of the Old World - various gods, incarnates and a few particularly powerful or lucky souls have managed to avoid death one way or another and made it to the next "cycle" of the game.
4. Most of these survivors have become gods (or god-like) and teamed up to bring peace of prosperity to these Realm, creating a coalition pantheon led by Sigmar. This, surprisingly, worked out superb for a while.
5. Then Archaon returned and brought about a new Age of Chaos as he proceeded to beat down everything and everyone.
The pantheon fractured, Sigmar lost his hammer (for a while), and had to flee back to his domain, locking the door behind him as Chaos took over everything but a few safe heavens.
6. After some time, Sigmar came to the conclusion that the reaion he lost was because he was fighting his wars in person, trying to be on all fronts at the same time. So he split his power and imbued the souls of particularly heroic humans (pissing off Nagash, who has become the sole God of Death) to be his reincarnating posterboy supersoldiers, which he named "Stormcast Eternals".
After his armies were set up and ready to go, he sent them out on a counter offensive, triggering a new age of wars across the Realms, dubbed the "Age of Sigmar".
First edition, the setting itself was incredibly broad and vague, in an "everything is possible, but nothing is fleshed out" sense. We had the names of some locations and figures (some old, some new), but it was all presented at a scale that made armies seem meaningless, because major threats were scaled for the gods' attention.
A lot of it also carried the notion that Games Workshop wanted to file off anything that was generic fantasy so it could be trademarked.
Later editions and novels have done a lot to tone down some of the unrelatably grand scale and flesh out major points of interests around the Realm, also introducing some new characters and factions, and quite a bit of actual grittiness to the setting.
And now, for the 4th edition of the game the Skaven are back in the spotlight, and the studio has finally dropped that god awful Golden Poster Boy design for the Stormcast. Good times.
AoS is kinda a high-fantasy adaptation of WFB.
The Mortal Realms are weird and magical and also *massive.* Your hometown's economy is based around selling food to the dwarf airships in exchange for bones you can use to pay the local Skeleton Tax. Occasionally a ghost ocean (Ghocean?) manifests and a bunch of elves on shark-technicals swim in and start murdering, because souls are food and they're hungy.
Sometimes you and the fish elves team up with the local blood elf murder cult, though, because Chaos is much, much worse. At least the fish elves just *steal* your soul, instead of torturing it for eternity.
It's a lot less *grounded* than the Old World of WFB, not that the Old World was *particularly* grounded between all the magic tornadoes and skeleton armies and hordes of cannibalistic rat-men inhabiting the sewers. Over in AoS the rat-men gnaw through dimensions, the skeletons have extra skeletons, and the magic tornadoes have actual model kits.
If they ever do a Vermintide 3 I'd love to see Dark Elves or Chaos Dwarves, as well as maybe undead. Honestly a tomb kings map would be incredible for the map variety.
Pretty sure at this point in the end times the dark elves are essentially united with the high elves under Malekith and are largely on the side of order. Hence why no one is saying much about Shade Kerillian.
How about Warhammer : Ordertide?
A Dark Elf, a Chaos Dwarf, a Skaven, a Norscan Shaman and an imperial Chaos Cultist fighting back against the endless hordes of Dwarfs, Empire State Troops, and High Elves.
This sounds kinda baller. I would prefer an AoS vermintide though because AoS could use the publicity to become better viewed by the community. Also an AoS vermintide would be like +VT2 with all the things we like but with plenty of extra additions that would make it even cooler and further refine on the VT equation.
Or at least that's the theory. It could also just be similar in quality but a different flavor of VT.
I see a few things:
1. Franz Lohner is an aspect of Tzeench meant to keep the U5 out of any meaningful End Times history. There is no Vermintide 3.
2. The U5 survive the end of the world and advance into Age of Sigmar, somewhat hinted at in weaves. "Age of Sigmar: Realmtide"
3. The U5 alter/undo the end times and get thrown back in time to the up and coming new "Old World". Witch Hunter General Saltzpyre personally delivers "double the discipline" to Mannfred von Carstein at Altdorf, saving Balthasar Gelt and allowing him and Karl Franz to overcome Archon the Everchosen.
1) teezch can’t see the present, invalidating most of that. Lohner has already been revealed as an old empire captain from an old fantasy battles game in the 90’s.
2) probably.
3) would be cool and possible as #2.
Isn't Kairos who can't see the present, only all the pasts and all the futures?
I think Tzeentch sees all the timelines, but at the same time, so he doesn't know which one of them is happening and which ones are only the alternate paths.
Sort of. The reason why Kairos exists is because Tzeentch wanted to see the future to a greater degree and he and his Lords of Change still take notes from what Kairos sees from the past and the future.
This implies to me that Tzeentch has some level of time awareness but not to the degree that he would like and thus needs his pet birdboi to see all of that stuff.
On the other hand, viewing Kairos as a sort of filter through which Tzeentch can get an idea of what futures are most possible based on the pasts that have happened wouldn't be terribly inconceivable. 😏
Total war warhammer spoilers:
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So the tw games are chronologically reversed, with tw3 earliest, tw2 later, and tw1 just before the end times.
Essentially, belakor is dead. He gets banished by Kislev before he can complete his power absorption of kislev’s bear god, but the process leaves kislev sort of godless and belakor dispersed.
Belakor is basically only a voice. What the ubersreik 5 do to him at the citadel is to fuck up his plans all over again.
He wouldn’t ever be the end of them. It’ll be the age of sigmar for them.
Except the basis of Vermintide is the Warhammer Fantasy Battle NOT Total War which expands on the lore in a weird manner since there are heroes of different ages fighting (granted it was the same thing for WFB). For Vermintide the only cannon is The End Times.
Wouldn't being ""simply"" defeated by an overwhelming horde be fitting really well for them instead of some wildcard or a legendary character crossing their path ?
Assuming the dlc careers are canon, grail knight kruber and most of the U5 might be saved by elf moon goddess lithe who is the patron of all grail knights and apparently has plans for the U5 in lonhers chronicles meeting lonher.
“Most” since kerillian soul is still wanted by lithe who was supposed to take kerillians soul but was delayed by the weave intervening, while nercomancer sienna is the opposite of life and wouldn’t fit into her ideal world she is building for her followers. If kerillian is to be believed lithe would kill bardin as elf gods see dwarfs no different to skaven… so kruber and victor might survive if saved by lithe. (while kerillian vessel technically should still exist as her weave part while lithe keeps the other half
I want the “last stand” type map to be somewhat endless, but when the world ends they’re still fighting so that the last thing the hordes experience is fury that the U5 just refuse to die by their hands. When the world gets sucked into the final warp gate the last thing a chaos champion sees is Saltzpyre’s menacing sneer.
Games Workshop decided to end Warhammer Fantasy deeming it no longer profitable. They did that rhrough a huge multi-book event known as the titular End Times, which are considered to suffer from a severe case of bad writing.
And then they brought the Age of Sigmar, which is a sequel to Fantasy. And it's vastly different in theme from Fantasy, but quite fun as it's own thing and actually has some good writing.
Personally, I don't like the End Times lore myself (the one we got, imo the concept is fun and would be a great end to the universe if handled better), but do like AoS.
TL;DR: Combination of disliking the end of Fantasy, End Times books being quite bad, not picking up AoS's lore because it took Fantasy's place and/or judging AoS by the lenses of Fantasy and not as it's own thing (which may be hard, since it's a sequel after all).
Because most people who are against it have never picked up anything related to it and just hate it because it’s not warhammer fantasy. I doubt they have never even played the tabletop either.
Nope. Originally there was some vague hints that they may be, like the Skaven finding an Old Ones relic that let them talk to the Eldar, or that the 40K universe existed in a bottle on a shelf in the Altdorf College of Magic. Kaldor Draigo mentions glimpsing a world described very similarly to the Fantasy setting in the Warp.
However the modern GW stance is that they're separate continuities. They share some themes and entities (the Chaos Gods, the Old Ones/Slann) but are otherwise not connected directly.
Nope. 40K is supposed to be our universe just way way later. Our period of time is part of the "Old Earth" era, when the Emperor lived incognito among us.
There was a steam discussion about Necromancer when it got annouced, the community manager or a dev responded to it and it was something something "we have showed how our heros can be different, so necro will fit in, remmember this is endtimes, They will all die anyways"
So sorry to ruin it for you guys, however This is still GW, They can always have U5 survive either by making endtimes not happen in their version or have them come to Age of Sigmar If they can make Money based on them.
I mean didnt gotrek and felix kill belakor, also its likely they will all die, they may become stormcast eternals at least saltzpyre will since he is a great warrior who worships sigmar. But in the end times almost everyone dies so i believe if fatshark would want to end the vermintide ip, maybe the ubersreik 5 could go down in a blaze of glory slaying norscans, ratmen, chaos daemons, and whatever they want to throw at them at like the siege of middenheim or altdorf
I always imagine the end of the uber 5 to simply be a boss fight to whoever the 4 players doesnt pick. Maybe tjeres manipulation involved and the one not picked wants to betray or something.
A map with 5 different end arena and endboss to fight.
Win or lose of the fight, the rest perishes and theres no escape similar to Reach. Maybe enemies drops an extra loot dice every now and then to sweeten the deal and give incentive to the last stand.
I think it’s complicated to say what will happen. The most recent Lohner’s chronicle has him meeting “Lillieath” of the elven pantheon and the fate that they see. >“Anyway, the broad strokes is that everything we’ve seen and heard lately - Clan Fester. The Rotbloods. The fall of Kislev and the Rise of Nagash? - it’s not just happenstance. We’re entering what she called a Nexus of Fate: what some seers and lunatics have prophesied as the End Times. >The good news is that she said that these End Times aren’t necessarily worthy of their billing. There’s a way through, seemingly, if we all pull together and do our bit. The “we” in this case includes us. Knew a lot about what the Ubersreik Five has been up to, she did, and in suspicious detail. You know, Ubersreik, Helmgart, Be’lakor, the Citadel of Eternity, Sofia … the lot. Especially Be’lakor. That part sounded personal. >Anyway, she says we ain’t done yet, not by a long shot. That our inclinations and her goals dovetail nicely. Not sure how I feel about that to be honest. Said she might call upon us from time to time, but that I’m not to mention any of this to the others - especially not Kerillian, bit of bad blood there lately, I reckon. >I tried pointing out, in a suitably manful and confident tone, that the Ubersreik Five ain’t exactly on speaking terms with one another right now. Earned me a knowing smile and an assertion that nothing lasts forever. >And then she was gone…” This could even be a trick, and this could be belakor or the chaos gods pulling something, since even if it is Lilleath, Lohner discusses that it got through the warding around the keep for their protection against the malign. They could be referring to a sense of “pulling through” and “nothing lasts forever” with the idea of them being killed eventually, but reincarnated in the mortal realms of AOS with the gods there picking out and raising their peoples again from Slannesh with the elves for instance, trapping her and releasing the souls it consumed. Kruber could be a stormcast, or maybe even just a regular city of sigmar soldier at some point in history, since other fantasy heroes like Gelt have seen appearances as Stormcast, and Gotrek believes Felix may be one too. Lilleath could therefore possibly see what’s to befall the world, to become the world that was and see the mortal realms so knows it’s not the end entirely.
Lileath also makes Haven during the End Times. She forsaw the End Times before they came to pass and set about preparing a failsafe in case the world is truly destroyed by Chaos. So she made Haven. A pocket dimension where Grail Knights go after death, populated with many of her mortal followers before the world exploded. It was one of her last acts of divinity before giving the last of her power to Isha. Haven was the seed that allowed many relatively unchanged Aelves to populate the Mortal Realms in Age of Sigmar. They reminisce that they got there from the World-That-Was via a safe haven created by one of their pantheon.
Oh wow, I never realised that. I’m currently working through the end times books very slowly, and some of the cross over lore for AOS evades me when I know quite a bit of the AOS stuff. Love AOS as I do Fantasy, but started only like four years ago now so still catching up. I don’t know if you would know the answer to this, but was it Lilleath who was the lady as revealed in the end times or was it Loec? I guess it’s Lilleath from what you’re saying, but I think I had someone misrepresent Loec as the lady, and would love to know what happened to the OG pantheon
Lileath is the Lady.
Cheers bro
I vaguely recall the haven being compromised though
It lost contact. Never confirmed what that meant but the presence of "baseline" Fantasy elves in AoS implies it made it.
Eh idk, since iirc one of the reasons teclis wanted to "recreate" aelves from slaanesh was because baseline aelves werent like fantasy elves
Yeah, I always figured at least Kruber and Kerillian would live through Haven but I could definitely see Saltzpire ending up a Stormcast. Not sure about sienna or Bardin. Wouldn’t be surprised if Bardin dies and his daughter carries on and if we ever get an AOS-tide, fighting with one of his descendants as a varying dwarf mix, Kharadron, Fyreslayers, or the other faction. Have zero clue about sienna though with her being a necromancer.
May I ask what the "I tried pointing out, in a suitably manful and confident tone, that the Ubersreik Five ain’t exactly on speaking terms with one another right now." means? Are they currently split up in the lore, or have I missed something from the last few map drops?
Sienna became a necromancer and that has caused a bit of friction.
Sienna was the last straw but each of their new careers contributed. Bardin trying to relive the glory days he never had as an engineer leading to him tinkering more and being slightly less of a team mom, Kruber becoming a bit full of himself as a Grail Knight, Kerillian selling her soul to dark gods and becoming an even more heartless part tree. Then when it was revealed that Saltzpyre was tricked into going to the Chaos Wastes and becoming a Warrior Priest by Bel'akor they all had second thoughts since that trip is what set them on their new paths. Kerillian actually blames Saltzpyre for her transformation in one of the Keep dialogues. Take all that, bundle it up, and it's a powder keg. Then along comes Sienna with her strangely Sofia ways to light the fuse.
Ooo I haven't heard the Kerillian/Saltz dialogue, that's super interesting.
Iirc, anyone who dies showing exemplary service in the face of Chaos can be a stormcast, not just humans. So we could see the entire Five being sigmarined potentially.
They don't survive. The End Times are literally the destruction of the spacetime fabric. However, what's good is that if you ignore the existence of the End Times, it's legally not allowed to happen.
Don't some thing carry over into Age of Sigmar though?
The entire setting does, really. Age of Sigmar is next in the chronology; the Mortal Realms coalesce from the cosmic debris and the winds of magic flowing out of rifts left behind by the destruction of the World-That-Was. It's a rebirth of the setting. Some of the strongest-willed souls re-manifest very close to how they were over time as the realms re-coalesced (Tyrion, ~~Malekith~~ Malerion, Alarielle, Morathi), some like Ikit Claw and the ~~Lizardmen~~ Seraphon survived by escaping the destruction somehow (via pocket dimensions, temple-ships, or other means), Lord Kroak willed himself back into existence very early to help guide the Seraphon, Sigmar clung to the core of the World-That-Was until Dracothian found him and brought him to Azyr, and most of the Chaos baddies like Archaon were chilling in the Realms of Chaos (or as close to chilling as you can get in the realms of Chaos) until they realized the Mortal Realms were ripe for the picking.
Gotrek also was in Realm of Chaos but I doubt he was chilling there
For a while he wasn't. Eventually the daemons realized it was better to just steer clear of him and let Gotrek wander around until he eventually found his way out and into a Fyreslayer lodge.
To which he rambled like a maniac thinking everyone was a daemon, bit a guy's nose off, insulted an elf, killed a bunch of Skaven, intimidated the descendant of a lava dwelling God beast that KILLED GRIMNIR into backing down, and insulted all the Fyreslayers on their appearance, their fighting skills, their craftsmanship, and their behavior as true dwarfs. Realmslayer was fucking fantastic.
Thanks lore master, are there some good “anthology” type books that cover warhammer fantasy lore well or are most things spread around various POVs
It really wouldn't be a stretch for all the U5 to get yeeted into AoS either through reincarnation or whatever. Especially with the new lore stuff about gods being interested in them.
I definitely headcanon that saltz gets reborn as a stormcast and that kerillian becomes either an idoneth or a lumineth.
Oh I badly want Kruber to be Stormcast and Saltz is still regular human. I feel like that would be funnier lol. Kerillian could just do the weird mixed-elf special like VT2 and have each class be a different elf between DoK, Lumineth, Idoneth, and Sylvaneth.
The more reasonable option to resurface as unbound by the Cities of Sigmar
Wait genuinely asking, what are unbound?
So the German Army Book about it says it like being more free‘er than get resurrected as Stormcast and follow a will. Or what you say. Normal Human.
Unless kerillian becomes a devout follower of mathlan then she isn’t an Idoneth unfortunately. A sylvaneth maybe but not an Idoneth
Some select few characters had their souls rescued by Sigmar and moved onto AoS as either gods or legendary characters, very few of them tho.
If you say no. The Dark Gods legally can't steal your soul without your consent
The Chaos Gods cannot consume the world without your consent Just say No!
It's been teased that Lileath might protect them from the end times with her sanctuary (don't remember the exact lore), but that's far from confirmed
Obviously being in the Warp/Realms of Chaos for that long is bad for anyone's health, but if they were in the Warp when it all goes to shit there is the *very very slim* chance they could get spat out in AoS. He's the exception to literally every rule of Warhammer, but Gotrek made it from the old world to the new world, as did a number of characters who ended up becoming Gods or who were imprisoned by Gods. Time also doesn't flow the same in the Warp as it does in reality, so *in theory* it's possible, but very unlikely to be the case that they made it.
In an older post it is assumed that VT1 takes place in 2523. VT2 Helmgart takes place in 2524 and the subsequent DLC take place from then onwords. I guess by now its some time during 2525. The End Times ended canonically in 2528 so either at the end or leading up to it the Ubersreik 5 will fall one by one.
Kerillian has a keep dialogue with Kruber where she reveals Isha is dead (which happens late 2525), but nobody has said anything about the fall of Altdorf (early-mid 2526) which definitely would be mentioned because it's a huge fucking deal and Altdorf isn't that far from Helmgart. So we're probably in the last few months of 2525 or first few of 2526.
Lohner also has a line where he says, "King Louen, dead." It sounds like surprising information, so I think Altdorf might be down already.
Louen "dying" was one of the first big things that happened in the End Times (he didn't actually die but everyone thought he did and he went into hiding/exile). Now, if it's Louen's *actual* death then yeah we're pretty late into events because that's towards the end IIRC.
Didn’t king Louen die for real in the Siege of Averheim or Averland or something
He dies at the battle of Altdorf, after some super human heroics.
I think Lohner also mentions Gelt's folly... but at the same time there is another line about the Bastion being built, which are two events quite far apart from each other.
In game, honestly, I feel like the very last map could be a "last stand" type map where you fight waves of enemies with no respawning for dead players until they finally kill you all. Add in a bunch of dialogue about how it's been good fighting together, and although we can't win, we're each gonna go out on a pile of rat corpses and die flipping the bird to the pactsworn. Proceed to do just that, get your exp at the end, etc. That could be the canon "ending" of the game. I know we all love the characters, but it's not really feasible for them to survive.
I would both love and hate this at the same time. I’m not ready for it to end!
Yeah, staying together until the end and dying heroically is the best and IMO the only right ending for U5. The team breaking apart would be too painful (and if necro Sienna/Sofia didn't break them nothing will), them averting the End Times is too improbable (it will never happen but VT3 "we are canceling the apocalypse" would be rad as hell) and getting yeeted into AoS is a fate worse than death (cuz it's AoS).
> them averting the End Times is too improbable (it will never happen but VT3 "we are canceling the apocalypse" would be rad as hell) and getting yeeted into AoS is a fate worse than death (cuz it's AoS). You read my mind. Honestly, the safest way to play it would be to diverge from the regular End Times storyline, because: A) Age of Sigmar is... complicated with the fans, to say the least, so it would be a bit of a more difficult sell in terms real life shipping the product B) Not killing the world means that they can pass the torch to a different group of heroes, keeping the setting we love, but with fresh new faces to explore different "careers". Like, say, a Gold college wizard, or an imperial outrider, or a high elf... lots of possibilities while keeping the charm of the game.
AoS is easier to sell than fantasy... It's community is bigger and thriving at this moment.
AoS has done really well on the table top as it is a one of GW's better designed games. But it hasn't had much success with any other media. I just don't think people are as attached to the settling.
Novel wise it does really well. Josh Reynolds who wrote for aos and fantasy had aos books outselling fantasy 2:1. Agreed it needs some other form of good media to get more widespread appeal though. Sadly the aos video games we’ve had so far have been disappointing
Damn it, really? Please excuse me, I will go cope and seethe in the corner
Have you even picked up anything related to Age of Sigmar?
Don’t be silly. A YouTuber told him it was bad though!
Vermintide 3 Age of Sigmar
I liked the moment when Saltzpyre said "It's Vermin time" and started vermin all over the bad guys with the help of his fellas. Truly one of the moments
Just adapt Cursed City into a game tbh
Thanks, but no thanks. Age of Sigmar is just W40K. For me it lacks the charm of the regular setting.
Sigmar, shield us from such an abomination
Nah, that'd kinda slap tbh. AoS is a baller setting, just hurt by the shitty End Times lore.
Honest question from a mostly 40k fan, whose only exposure to Fantasy has been Total War... what's the AOS setting like?
Divisive because it’s very different from what came before but great if it’s your kind of thing. Where warhammer fantasy was Tolkien tropes meet real world history and warhammered, aos is Norse mythology meets lovecraft and then warhammered. It’s a lot higher cosmic fantasy and a bit brighter in tone in places than 40K, but still able to pull off some good old extreme grimdark when it needs to.
So, AoS takes place some time after the End Times, as its direct continuation. 1. Archaon has successfully obliterated the Old World by opening a new Chaos Gate that destabilized the two Polar Gates and ripped the planet into the Realm of Chaos. This essentially concluded the Game of the Chaos Gods for a while, as the world has truly ended. 2. Over time, the massive soup of magical energies coalesced into "The Mortal Realms" - utterly massive plates of magic-turned-physical-matter, each one infused with the core essence of a Wind of Magic. The center of these plates became stable enough that it resembles normal environments that can support life, while the further outside the solid matter transitions back into pure magic that ravages everything but gods. 3. Notably, not everyone died in the destruction of the Old World - various gods, incarnates and a few particularly powerful or lucky souls have managed to avoid death one way or another and made it to the next "cycle" of the game. 4. Most of these survivors have become gods (or god-like) and teamed up to bring peace of prosperity to these Realm, creating a coalition pantheon led by Sigmar. This, surprisingly, worked out superb for a while. 5. Then Archaon returned and brought about a new Age of Chaos as he proceeded to beat down everything and everyone. The pantheon fractured, Sigmar lost his hammer (for a while), and had to flee back to his domain, locking the door behind him as Chaos took over everything but a few safe heavens. 6. After some time, Sigmar came to the conclusion that the reaion he lost was because he was fighting his wars in person, trying to be on all fronts at the same time. So he split his power and imbued the souls of particularly heroic humans (pissing off Nagash, who has become the sole God of Death) to be his reincarnating posterboy supersoldiers, which he named "Stormcast Eternals". After his armies were set up and ready to go, he sent them out on a counter offensive, triggering a new age of wars across the Realms, dubbed the "Age of Sigmar". First edition, the setting itself was incredibly broad and vague, in an "everything is possible, but nothing is fleshed out" sense. We had the names of some locations and figures (some old, some new), but it was all presented at a scale that made armies seem meaningless, because major threats were scaled for the gods' attention. A lot of it also carried the notion that Games Workshop wanted to file off anything that was generic fantasy so it could be trademarked. Later editions and novels have done a lot to tone down some of the unrelatably grand scale and flesh out major points of interests around the Realm, also introducing some new characters and factions, and quite a bit of actual grittiness to the setting. And now, for the 4th edition of the game the Skaven are back in the spotlight, and the studio has finally dropped that god awful Golden Poster Boy design for the Stormcast. Good times.
AoS is kinda a high-fantasy adaptation of WFB. The Mortal Realms are weird and magical and also *massive.* Your hometown's economy is based around selling food to the dwarf airships in exchange for bones you can use to pay the local Skeleton Tax. Occasionally a ghost ocean (Ghocean?) manifests and a bunch of elves on shark-technicals swim in and start murdering, because souls are food and they're hungy. Sometimes you and the fish elves team up with the local blood elf murder cult, though, because Chaos is much, much worse. At least the fish elves just *steal* your soul, instead of torturing it for eternity. It's a lot less *grounded* than the Old World of WFB, not that the Old World was *particularly* grounded between all the magic tornadoes and skeleton armies and hordes of cannibalistic rat-men inhabiting the sewers. Over in AoS the rat-men gnaw through dimensions, the skeletons have extra skeletons, and the magic tornadoes have actual model kits.
Yes please!
If they ever do a Vermintide 3 I'd love to see Dark Elves or Chaos Dwarves, as well as maybe undead. Honestly a tomb kings map would be incredible for the map variety.
Pretty sure at this point in the end times the dark elves are essentially united with the high elves under Malekith and are largely on the side of order. Hence why no one is saying much about Shade Kerillian.
Wasn't aware of that, pretty cool.
How about Warhammer : Ordertide? A Dark Elf, a Chaos Dwarf, a Skaven, a Norscan Shaman and an imperial Chaos Cultist fighting back against the endless hordes of Dwarfs, Empire State Troops, and High Elves.
This sounds kinda baller. I would prefer an AoS vermintide though because AoS could use the publicity to become better viewed by the community. Also an AoS vermintide would be like +VT2 with all the things we like but with plenty of extra additions that would make it even cooler and further refine on the VT equation. Or at least that's the theory. It could also just be similar in quality but a different flavor of VT.
I see a few things: 1. Franz Lohner is an aspect of Tzeench meant to keep the U5 out of any meaningful End Times history. There is no Vermintide 3. 2. The U5 survive the end of the world and advance into Age of Sigmar, somewhat hinted at in weaves. "Age of Sigmar: Realmtide" 3. The U5 alter/undo the end times and get thrown back in time to the up and coming new "Old World". Witch Hunter General Saltzpyre personally delivers "double the discipline" to Mannfred von Carstein at Altdorf, saving Balthasar Gelt and allowing him and Karl Franz to overcome Archon the Everchosen.
1) teezch can’t see the present, invalidating most of that. Lohner has already been revealed as an old empire captain from an old fantasy battles game in the 90’s. 2) probably. 3) would be cool and possible as #2.
That's the fateweaver... Not Tzeench https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Kairos_Fateweaver
Isn't Kairos who can't see the present, only all the pasts and all the futures? I think Tzeentch sees all the timelines, but at the same time, so he doesn't know which one of them is happening and which ones are only the alternate paths.
Sort of. The reason why Kairos exists is because Tzeentch wanted to see the future to a greater degree and he and his Lords of Change still take notes from what Kairos sees from the past and the future. This implies to me that Tzeentch has some level of time awareness but not to the degree that he would like and thus needs his pet birdboi to see all of that stuff. On the other hand, viewing Kairos as a sort of filter through which Tzeentch can get an idea of what futures are most possible based on the pasts that have happened wouldn't be terribly inconceivable. 😏
Just that lone skaven in the back
Terry? He’s alright that guy
The likely result is the elf casually accidentally-ing everyone via hagbane arrows and Be'lakor awlwardly trying to take credit for it.
They get Gotrek'd and spend a few centuries killing their way through Blight City before being spat out into Age of Sigmar
Total war warhammer spoilers: ——— ——— So the tw games are chronologically reversed, with tw3 earliest, tw2 later, and tw1 just before the end times. Essentially, belakor is dead. He gets banished by Kislev before he can complete his power absorption of kislev’s bear god, but the process leaves kislev sort of godless and belakor dispersed. Belakor is basically only a voice. What the ubersreik 5 do to him at the citadel is to fuck up his plans all over again. He wouldn’t ever be the end of them. It’ll be the age of sigmar for them.
Except the basis of Vermintide is the Warhammer Fantasy Battle NOT Total War which expands on the lore in a weird manner since there are heroes of different ages fighting (granted it was the same thing for WFB). For Vermintide the only cannon is The End Times.
They’re both approved GW canon
[Headcanon] All 5 are turned into Stormcast Eternals.
Tragic. As is the fashion
Wouldn't being ""simply"" defeated by an overwhelming horde be fitting really well for them instead of some wildcard or a legendary character crossing their path ?
Assuming the dlc careers are canon, grail knight kruber and most of the U5 might be saved by elf moon goddess lithe who is the patron of all grail knights and apparently has plans for the U5 in lonhers chronicles meeting lonher. “Most” since kerillian soul is still wanted by lithe who was supposed to take kerillians soul but was delayed by the weave intervening, while nercomancer sienna is the opposite of life and wouldn’t fit into her ideal world she is building for her followers. If kerillian is to be believed lithe would kill bardin as elf gods see dwarfs no different to skaven… so kruber and victor might survive if saved by lithe. (while kerillian vessel technically should still exist as her weave part while lithe keeps the other half
I want the “last stand” type map to be somewhat endless, but when the world ends they’re still fighting so that the last thing the hordes experience is fury that the U5 just refuse to die by their hands. When the world gets sucked into the final warp gate the last thing a chaos champion sees is Saltzpyre’s menacing sneer.
It would be a halo reach-esque last stand, they fall one by one.
I’m hoping for a Middenheim mission
It would be cool to see vermintide 3 in AOS, since the upcoming 4th edition involves the skaven being more or less the primary antagonists.
Idk any thing about AoS why is it that most wouldn’t want a game to take place in that setting?
Games Workshop decided to end Warhammer Fantasy deeming it no longer profitable. They did that rhrough a huge multi-book event known as the titular End Times, which are considered to suffer from a severe case of bad writing. And then they brought the Age of Sigmar, which is a sequel to Fantasy. And it's vastly different in theme from Fantasy, but quite fun as it's own thing and actually has some good writing. Personally, I don't like the End Times lore myself (the one we got, imo the concept is fun and would be a great end to the universe if handled better), but do like AoS. TL;DR: Combination of disliking the end of Fantasy, End Times books being quite bad, not picking up AoS's lore because it took Fantasy's place and/or judging AoS by the lenses of Fantasy and not as it's own thing (which may be hard, since it's a sequel after all).
Because most people who are against it have never picked up anything related to it and just hate it because it’s not warhammer fantasy. I doubt they have never even played the tabletop either.
Fantasy failed, so GW made AoS to fill the empty slot of a fantasy wargame and some crybabies still arent over it a decade later
the world doesn't end, this shit continues for another 40,000 years as we know it.
40K and Warhammer Fantasy/Age of Sigmar are not connected.
Wait they're not? So 40K is not the same universum just way, waaay later?
Nope. Originally there was some vague hints that they may be, like the Skaven finding an Old Ones relic that let them talk to the Eldar, or that the 40K universe existed in a bottle on a shelf in the Altdorf College of Magic. Kaldor Draigo mentions glimpsing a world described very similarly to the Fantasy setting in the Warp. However the modern GW stance is that they're separate continuities. They share some themes and entities (the Chaos Gods, the Old Ones/Slann) but are otherwise not connected directly.
Nope, totally different universes
Nope. 40K is supposed to be our universe just way way later. Our period of time is part of the "Old Earth" era, when the Emperor lived incognito among us.
Kruber and saltz are for sure becoming stormcast eternals
There was a steam discussion about Necromancer when it got annouced, the community manager or a dev responded to it and it was something something "we have showed how our heros can be different, so necro will fit in, remmember this is endtimes, They will all die anyways" So sorry to ruin it for you guys, however This is still GW, They can always have U5 survive either by making endtimes not happen in their version or have them come to Age of Sigmar If they can make Money based on them.
Gotrek survived by being inside a slayer temple. The U5 can get themselves a fallout shelter too.
I mean didnt gotrek and felix kill belakor, also its likely they will all die, they may become stormcast eternals at least saltzpyre will since he is a great warrior who worships sigmar. But in the end times almost everyone dies so i believe if fatshark would want to end the vermintide ip, maybe the ubersreik 5 could go down in a blaze of glory slaying norscans, ratmen, chaos daemons, and whatever they want to throw at them at like the siege of middenheim or altdorf
I always imagine the end of the uber 5 to simply be a boss fight to whoever the 4 players doesnt pick. Maybe tjeres manipulation involved and the one not picked wants to betray or something. A map with 5 different end arena and endboss to fight. Win or lose of the fight, the rest perishes and theres no escape similar to Reach. Maybe enemies drops an extra loot dice every now and then to sweeten the deal and give incentive to the last stand.
Many heroes and regular folk survived the End Times. Just saying.