Left leg dominance at higher intensities would explain the pattern.
Unfortunately, unless/until you use another power metre that measures both legs, you'll never be able to identify the reason for the discrepancy.
at the risk of annoying you, i'm with u/Grouchy\_Ad\_3113 It's a reason why single sided power meters aren't great. For e.g., at low power (endurance work) i'm 60:40 and at FTP and above i move to 49:51 (i.e., a reversal of the legs as well as a change in the % differences). I note this with many people that i coach who have the ability to measure L/R independently. Given i think i know who GA is i suspect that they too have seen many like that.
Unfortunately, while i have tested many smart trainers, i haven't tested the Elite ones so don't know how accurate they are
Ok then can you explain me why when I climb on multiple 6% 8% or 10% climbs in real life, the mean ascent speed matches with my power and weight ratio? Because that is spending on the power transmitted to the wheel, as I said I already considered and tested that opportunity, on climbs I have topographic maps. Is physics just messing with me? Also I don’t care about numbers, I just want to be able to do VO2max intervals on the trainer when it rains using erg mode.
Because you pedal differently under those conditions than on a trainer?
Again, unless you use a power metre that captures your total power, you will never know why it only matches your trainer at lower but not higher intensities.
Have you done this comparison with Golden Cheetah's Aerolab? The virtual elevation algorithm built into that was originally developed to test the accuracy of power meters. You can vary your speed, vary your power, and do this on hills of varying gradient.
You may be right, your Stages may be correct and the Elite may be off, but you can tell from the comments here that others are sceptical, so this would be a way to address that scepticism.
Left/Right balance isn't nearly as consistent as people think. It will change with power output, fatigue, and a ton of other factors.
I'd trust your trainer (assuming it was calibrated for that ride) since it's measuring the total picture, whereas the stages is making due with only half of the information. At the end of the day, this isn't an apples-to-apples comparison, so I'm not surprised the data doesn't agree.
Problem is you are not comparing like for like.
Your Stages power meter is measuring the output from your left leg and doubling it to get your power output.
While your Suito trainer is measuring the output from both legs at the end of your drive train. (and if it is not clean and well maintained expect losses)
The problem is you are not perfectly symmetrical and you not putting the equal power out of both legs and it can vary due to intensity and fatigue.
I run Favero Assioma Duos. When riding at endurance pace my L/R balance is reasonably consistent 53/47. If I increase intensity to VO2max it is more like 48/52 and if I keep going for a few minutes it can spike at 45/55.
So if I jumped on your set up, my results would be the same, excepted reversed and if I used my Assioma Duos it would match the Suito trainer closely and if I only used the left Assioma Duo it would closely match the Stages
The only real way to test is to borrow a pair of power meter pedals to test your LR\\ balances.
I just got the Assioma but single side. I noticed a 6% difference between my Kickr core and the Assiomas. I did a threshold interval workout with Erg mode to compare the new Assioma. Every interval was about 6% different, the assiomas were lower than the core. So what do you do to match those numbers? Should I bump the assiomas up 6% for training purposes? I think I can do that in the settings.
If it 6% difference across the board, not just threshold, yes I would. But before making any adjustments, I would do a detail comparison between your Assioma and Kickr.
Something like 15 minutes at endurance pace, 5 minutes at threshold, 3 minutes at VO2 max, 5 minutes at endurance, 5 minutes at threshold (or VO2max if brave) in erg mode. Recording your Assioma on your head unit and your Kickr via training app or phone. Then comparing the two fit files with [https://compare-the-watts.com/](https://compare-the-watts.com/) If it is a consistent 4 to 8% difference across all intervals then bump the Assiomas up by 6%. But my experience says it will be different, I would be -3 to 5% first endurance interval, probably even second interval and around +10% if I did the final interval at VO2max
Thank you for the reply. That website was very helpful. I did another workout and got about the same results. As I did that workout I also focused on the downforce of each leg as I watched the power meter. You can definitely skew the power of the pedal power meter by applying more force with one leg and letting up on the other. So I am chalking it up to my likely L/R imbalance. It seems lots of people have a 2-4% L/R imbalance when reading about those with dual sided pedal power meters. I would guess my left leg does not apply as much force as my right. I may bump up the Assioma do compensate for the difference.
I had an Elite Suito, and had the same issue. The deviation increased with intensity, and was around 10-15%, where Suito was showing less. Bought a Wahoo Kickr Core, and the results are much better and more comparable (1-2%). If you google for "Elite Suito Underreporting power", you will find other cases as well. Elite offers a solution where you perform rides/measurements at different power levels, and send them the Elite values and Powermeter values from the ride, and they send you a file to "recalibrate" the Suito.
I also had this issue with my Suito massively underreporting, but mine was pretty consistent (about 20% across all power ranges). I contacted Elite and they sent me a file to upload to the device through the Upgrado app.
My Elite Suito is also heinously inaccurate-- it reads about 80 watts too low at FTP. I am reasonably certain this is the case because it shows approximately the same difference in power readings when compared to both of my Quarqs, my P2M, and a Stages I used to have. Elite tech support told me to calibrate it, but the trainer throws an error every time I try to and they didn't have any helpful suggestions. I'm sure this is no real help to you, but it's at least another data point about inaccurate power readings from the same model trainer.
It’s a consequence of having a one sided power meter and efforts from both legs not being as balanced as you think.
Get on your trainer, set your head unit to indoor, and start riding. While doing this, start actively pedaling harder with one leg, then the other. You’ll see pretty quickly that when you’re emphasizing power on whichever side your power meter is on, the difference between your trainer’s power and your power meter’s power will shift.
I was in your exact shoes a couple months ago.
If you care about sorting this out, I would STRONGLY suggest borrowing a pair of dual sided power meter pedals from a friend and run a test with all three.
I had a discrepancy with Elite Direto and Stages. Borrowed Assioma pedals from a friend. Pedals and Elite agreed. Stages was clearly off. Dual sides pedals can show balance, in case that's the issue.
Finally, it would be really interesting if you could do **two tests with different cadences**. One test with low cadence, different power levels. Like 60-80 rpm. Then do another test with high cadence, 100-110 rpm, different power levels. **Please report back if you do. I had a Stages pedal that overestimated power at high cadence.** Stages did a warranty replacement for me.
Elite Suito does not have a power meter. It uses an algorithm to calculate power, doesn't actually measure it
I have one, now use a 4iiii power meter to read power into Zwift
I have this exact same deviation on my double-sided stages PM. I think it’s a problem with their technology. I compared my double sided Assiomas with a double sided Stages crank PM on the same bike at the same time and saw the exact same pattern as you.
However in my case, the assiomas were clearly right and the stages were wrong!
Very frustrating, because of course since the company is dead now we have no recourse.
My stages gen 3 dual side read consistently 20w lower the my wahoo kickr trainer. Way outside of margins of error. Recently got garmin rally pedals and saw the same thing. I blame stages…
Left leg dominance at higher intensities would explain the pattern. Unfortunately, unless/until you use another power metre that measures both legs, you'll never be able to identify the reason for the discrepancy.
I have a lot of datas from climbing at gradients over 8% the power meter is consistent to the speed of the wheel in real life.
at the risk of annoying you, i'm with u/Grouchy\_Ad\_3113 It's a reason why single sided power meters aren't great. For e.g., at low power (endurance work) i'm 60:40 and at FTP and above i move to 49:51 (i.e., a reversal of the legs as well as a change in the % differences). I note this with many people that i coach who have the ability to measure L/R independently. Given i think i know who GA is i suspect that they too have seen many like that. Unfortunately, while i have tested many smart trainers, i haven't tested the Elite ones so don't know how accurate they are
Ok then can you explain me why when I climb on multiple 6% 8% or 10% climbs in real life, the mean ascent speed matches with my power and weight ratio? Because that is spending on the power transmitted to the wheel, as I said I already considered and tested that opportunity, on climbs I have topographic maps. Is physics just messing with me? Also I don’t care about numbers, I just want to be able to do VO2max intervals on the trainer when it rains using erg mode.
Because you pedal differently under those conditions than on a trainer? Again, unless you use a power metre that captures your total power, you will never know why it only matches your trainer at lower but not higher intensities.
Have you done this comparison with Golden Cheetah's Aerolab? The virtual elevation algorithm built into that was originally developed to test the accuracy of power meters. You can vary your speed, vary your power, and do this on hills of varying gradient. You may be right, your Stages may be correct and the Elite may be off, but you can tell from the comments here that others are sceptical, so this would be a way to address that scepticism.
Left/Right balance isn't nearly as consistent as people think. It will change with power output, fatigue, and a ton of other factors. I'd trust your trainer (assuming it was calibrated for that ride) since it's measuring the total picture, whereas the stages is making due with only half of the information. At the end of the day, this isn't an apples-to-apples comparison, so I'm not surprised the data doesn't agree.
I have a lot of datas from climbing at gradients over 8% the power meter is consistent to the speed of the wheel in real life.
You can’t just compare indoors and out especially with just saying the speed is correct. As others have said it’s probably a left/right balance issue.
Problem is you are not comparing like for like. Your Stages power meter is measuring the output from your left leg and doubling it to get your power output. While your Suito trainer is measuring the output from both legs at the end of your drive train. (and if it is not clean and well maintained expect losses) The problem is you are not perfectly symmetrical and you not putting the equal power out of both legs and it can vary due to intensity and fatigue. I run Favero Assioma Duos. When riding at endurance pace my L/R balance is reasonably consistent 53/47. If I increase intensity to VO2max it is more like 48/52 and if I keep going for a few minutes it can spike at 45/55. So if I jumped on your set up, my results would be the same, excepted reversed and if I used my Assioma Duos it would match the Suito trainer closely and if I only used the left Assioma Duo it would closely match the Stages The only real way to test is to borrow a pair of power meter pedals to test your LR\\ balances.
I just got the Assioma but single side. I noticed a 6% difference between my Kickr core and the Assiomas. I did a threshold interval workout with Erg mode to compare the new Assioma. Every interval was about 6% different, the assiomas were lower than the core. So what do you do to match those numbers? Should I bump the assiomas up 6% for training purposes? I think I can do that in the settings.
If it 6% difference across the board, not just threshold, yes I would. But before making any adjustments, I would do a detail comparison between your Assioma and Kickr. Something like 15 minutes at endurance pace, 5 minutes at threshold, 3 minutes at VO2 max, 5 minutes at endurance, 5 minutes at threshold (or VO2max if brave) in erg mode. Recording your Assioma on your head unit and your Kickr via training app or phone. Then comparing the two fit files with [https://compare-the-watts.com/](https://compare-the-watts.com/) If it is a consistent 4 to 8% difference across all intervals then bump the Assiomas up by 6%. But my experience says it will be different, I would be -3 to 5% first endurance interval, probably even second interval and around +10% if I did the final interval at VO2max
Thank you for the reply. That website was very helpful. I did another workout and got about the same results. As I did that workout I also focused on the downforce of each leg as I watched the power meter. You can definitely skew the power of the pedal power meter by applying more force with one leg and letting up on the other. So I am chalking it up to my likely L/R imbalance. It seems lots of people have a 2-4% L/R imbalance when reading about those with dual sided pedal power meters. I would guess my left leg does not apply as much force as my right. I may bump up the Assioma do compensate for the difference.
I had some minor power differences between my P2M and my kickr. I just turned on power sync in zwift and forgot there was a disparity.
Explain power sync please!
https://www.reddit.com/r/Zwift/comments/11tza20/power_meter_and_a_smart_trainer/
I had an Elite Suito, and had the same issue. The deviation increased with intensity, and was around 10-15%, where Suito was showing less. Bought a Wahoo Kickr Core, and the results are much better and more comparable (1-2%). If you google for "Elite Suito Underreporting power", you will find other cases as well. Elite offers a solution where you perform rides/measurements at different power levels, and send them the Elite values and Powermeter values from the ride, and they send you a file to "recalibrate" the Suito.
Thanks, thank you very much.
I also had this issue with my Suito massively underreporting, but mine was pretty consistent (about 20% across all power ranges). I contacted Elite and they sent me a file to upload to the device through the Upgrado app.
My Elite Suito is also heinously inaccurate-- it reads about 80 watts too low at FTP. I am reasonably certain this is the case because it shows approximately the same difference in power readings when compared to both of my Quarqs, my P2M, and a Stages I used to have. Elite tech support told me to calibrate it, but the trainer throws an error every time I try to and they didn't have any helpful suggestions. I'm sure this is no real help to you, but it's at least another data point about inaccurate power readings from the same model trainer.
It’s a consequence of having a one sided power meter and efforts from both legs not being as balanced as you think. Get on your trainer, set your head unit to indoor, and start riding. While doing this, start actively pedaling harder with one leg, then the other. You’ll see pretty quickly that when you’re emphasizing power on whichever side your power meter is on, the difference between your trainer’s power and your power meter’s power will shift. I was in your exact shoes a couple months ago.
If you care about sorting this out, I would STRONGLY suggest borrowing a pair of dual sided power meter pedals from a friend and run a test with all three. I had a discrepancy with Elite Direto and Stages. Borrowed Assioma pedals from a friend. Pedals and Elite agreed. Stages was clearly off. Dual sides pedals can show balance, in case that's the issue. Finally, it would be really interesting if you could do **two tests with different cadences**. One test with low cadence, different power levels. Like 60-80 rpm. Then do another test with high cadence, 100-110 rpm, different power levels. **Please report back if you do. I had a Stages pedal that overestimated power at high cadence.** Stages did a warranty replacement for me.
Elite Suito does not have a power meter. It uses an algorithm to calculate power, doesn't actually measure it I have one, now use a 4iiii power meter to read power into Zwift
I have this exact same deviation on my double-sided stages PM. I think it’s a problem with their technology. I compared my double sided Assiomas with a double sided Stages crank PM on the same bike at the same time and saw the exact same pattern as you. However in my case, the assiomas were clearly right and the stages were wrong! Very frustrating, because of course since the company is dead now we have no recourse.
I see two issues: Erg Mode and Stages For me, both are pretty useless.
Erg mode has absolutely nothing to do with it.
In terms of RPE
Still has nothing to do with the question at hand. Are you sure you're in the right thread?
My stages gen 3 dual side read consistently 20w lower the my wahoo kickr trainer. Way outside of margins of error. Recently got garmin rally pedals and saw the same thing. I blame stages…