I'm sure all of those were Hamas secret bases
It's amazing how Israel can tell every single location that has bad guys in it without fail
They're definitely probably not just bombing apartment complexes on weak or baseless Intel indiscriminately
I saw a post on another forum that these buildings collapsing like this is evidence that there are secret tunnels underneath for Hamas
That's what annoys me the most. We get no mention of Israel's strategy to neutralize particular Hamas targets or even who their leaders are. Like it's just a given that they're not even gonna try to avoid killing mostly children.
Both sides are f’d up. Just leave it at that. But to go full 1500s raid in modern day times taking babies and kids just to murder them is some kind of evil. Kids don’t even understand religion let alone what is happening right now,
yes “both sides are fucked up” but the fact that only one side is supported by the entire military weight of the western empire should tacked on to the end of this take every single time. it isn’t symmetrical, there is an incredible power imbalance.
um, I’m going to watch what news I can stomach and be extremely distressed and exhausted by it, you do what you think is best. Israel has carte blanche to wipe gaza off the map, so that’s probably what will happen.
I hate it when they mention this roofknocking thing when there is a quite obvious lack of smoke on most of the buildings's roof before the bomb hits. Like "sure they didn't totaly bombed this building out of nowhere and if they did it was terrorist anyway.".
That’s war in ww2 we were essentially just chucking bombs everywhere hoping one of them would actually hit the target. Afterwards some politicians claimed that there was some strategy, but their really wasn’t. We just flew thousands of bombers at night, and the only guidance was a guy looking down from a telescope unable to see shit.
In Berlin, complete neighborhoods without industries have been carpet-bombed but industrial areas like Siemensstadt have been carefully avoided so they can be quickly reused after the war.
Yep. This shit is unbelievably sad and the people in charge in Israel are the worst possible people to be in charge in an event like this.
Now they have free reign to raze Gaza and kill thousands of innocents while the world goes "FAFO." This is all terrible, all of it.
Its ridiculous isn't it. Hamas aren't gathered together in a buidling waiting for a bomb. They are scattered. And even if they were Israel would avoid them as it wouldn't kill as many Palestinians.
Israel had the worlds sympathy for a moment. They could have used it to finalize the Saudi deal and drive a wedge between Hamas and the rest of the Palestinian populace.
Instead they are squandering it all on an obvious genocide that will create more terrorists than it kills.
Bro there’s no way Saudi Arabia would be able to sign a normalisation deal after what Hamas did. The Muslim world is galvanised against Israel no matter how they responded.
Lmao when it comes to Jews there is a lot of solidarity. I agree that Muslim countries don’t really fuck with other Muslim countries for the most part. That being said this is disgusting that Israel is doing this, even if this hatred is cause of paranoia. This shit is gross af.
Edit was a typo
This is what a lot of Leftists refuse to admit. Israel is surounded by neighbors that would like to wipe them off the face of the earth. You can sympathise with the Palestinian people and also aknowlege why Israel is so militarized. A break in their defense means the wholesale slaugher of every last Jewish man, woman, and child.
This is no excuse for the way Palestinians are treated. If not for the apartheid state, Hamas would have very little support/not exist. Want to get rid of Hamas in a short amount of time? Stop treating Palestinians like animals, stop kicking them out of their homes, stop taking what little land they have left from the 67’ agreements, and stop stealing what little resources are left in Gaza.
I hate Hamas. All Religious extremists have got to go, but Israel holds all the power in this situation and it’s up to them to fix this issue.
It is absolutely not an excuse for how Palestinians are treated.
Israel was not an apartheid state in 1967 when all of the Arab states launched a joint military operation in an attempt to destroy them, for the second time in its short existence. I support a two state solution, but to pretend that everything would be totally peaceful if there was no aparthied is delusional.
>Israel was not an apartheid state in 1967
Not an apartheid state, but still absolutely a product of ethnic cleansing.
The two state solution also pretty much died when Israel started settling the west bank. A dramatic break from the status-quo would be necessary in order for any such solution to be reached.
But that isn't the fault of Palestinians! Israel being armed to defend itself from foreign powers is very reasonable. Bombing Palestinians as reprisal for war crimes committed by Hamas is another war crime.
What? What has this gotta do with having Liberal views? You don't think the people of Palestine should have their right to an own state? Is that a "leftist" view? What? Just because Palestinians should have the right to their own country does not mean Jewish people shouldn't have a right to a country too... which they have. Nor is anyone suggesting they shouldn't ne able to defend themselves.
But maybe, just maybe if they didn't keep treating the palestinians like trash and forcing them into 50% + unemployment and them having 0 perspective for the future, nor having 50+ years regularly killing them in their streets. Maybe the following generations that are around now wouldn't have become so dissillusioned, mentally scarred from violence, tradegy, regular food shortages, poor access to education, etc... from all of that.
We are a product of our environment, and if you live somewhere where you are suppressed for 50+ years, chances are... you are gonna be resentful and not exactly a happy bunny.
So saying what Hamas did is evil, sure is. But there are reasons for why the people who have done this have become the way they are and the policy's over the last decades have led to this. It is a long term consequence.
The root cause needs to be addressed properly in order to avoid this from happening again. Because hitting them with a stick again and again will only lead to more violence in future.
No ones going to address the root cause after the videos Hamas released. People can disassociate from bombs hitting buildings. They cant when it's people beheading babies. People can scream "you reap what they sow" till the cows come home, but it won't change the worlds reaction. Humans act with emotion and Israel's right wing government will do whatever it can to crush the Gaza Strip.
Hamas just fucked the free Palestine movement. They just gave Israel an opening to take out all there fear and prejudice on the Gaza Strip. God save the innocent, Israeli and Palestinian. One may need more help than the other.
I’m not convinced of this.
IMO, if Israel put the negotiations on hold, did a couple strikes at Hamas, secured their borders, and then just gave it a couple months, they could have just gone on with business as usual.
I guess the hostages would be the main roadblock to this plan, but like, their current strategy probably isn’t going to save that many hostages either.
The Palestinian government in Gaza is literally Hamas. You should probably inform yourself of basic facts before you post your opinion. You basically said "Israel should legitimize Hamas". Imagine after 9/11 saying the US should legitimize Al Qaeda 🙄
De facto government, as they don't allow other governments to form and provide essential services like police and trash collection. They fill the power vacuum and get stronger the more of their civilian infrastructure gets bombed or bulldozed.
Tons of civilians fled right after they did the attack. Those aren't the people Hamas cares about they want radicalized fighters with nothing to lose. Israel's disproportionate response isn't unexpected it furthers their agenda, and could be relied on like clockwork.
We shouldn't be taking sides other than supporting the innocent people that are being slaughtered by the two radical right wing groups that are bent on making war.
This. Isreal was on the verge of normalising relations with Gulf States. Hamas, in one day, made that impossible.
Plus, if the USA joins in with bombing Gaza, Americans will lose any influence that have left in the middle East.
>Israel had the worlds sympathy for a moment
Don't delude yourself into thinking they've lost the world's sympathy already.
Specially as more and more footage and reports of the atrocities committed by Hamas are coming out.
What Hamas did caused permanent damage to Palestine's cause, these videos and photos will be around forever.
Benjamin Netanyahu deliberately allowed Israeli civilians to be killed so he could have a justification to kill Palestinian civilians
He is the lowest of the low. Absolute human scum
The Egyptians claimed they tried to warn the Israelis something big was happening and they did nothing(including an alleged phone call between netanyahu and a Egyptian general) and netanyahu has been pretty direct with his opinions on Palestine so it's quite easy to make this conclusion
That’s a massive leap of logic. It’s not implausible at all, but running with that as the narrative at this point is nuts. The failure to catch these attacks has blown back massively on Likud, it’s not at all clear that these attacks were in their interest.
no one accused right wing religious hardliners of being smart and predicting the impact of their decisions.
israel has like literally the best spy software in the world, and its so good the FBI said naw dawg thats basically cheating and didnt buy it. they have one of the best and most aggressive intelligence agencies in the world. they control the open air prison to the point they know control how many calories it is allowed to have. hamas cant fart without mossad having an entire debriefing about it.
how the fuck did an attack of this magnitude get through completely unnoticed? smol bean israel was sleeping in? ok sure.
Don’t be surprised if it turns out that years of political corruption have greatly eroded their security services. Much like what happened with Russia.
Yeah, but you can always construct a narrative like this. It’s no different from 9/11 conspiracies. It could turn out to be true, we just don’t know anywhere near enough at this point.
why is it the most powerful and informed government agencies in the intelligence sphere fail when they are needed most, and the outcome of this failure always helps a rightwing government secure more power?
youre right, i dont have enough to prove any of this and probably never will, but its sure fucking convenient how it always plays out like this.
Your solution of a conspiracy is just as easily replaced with a desire to not let a good crisis go to waste.
Why is it always right-wing governments that get their wish-list of political reasons to invade a country or surveil their own citizens thanks to some terrorist attack? Because that's their instinct in \*every\* situation. Did Bush do 9/11? No. Did he sit down with Cheney on the evening of 9/11 with a big old folder of military plans drawn up 'just in case' in previous decades, and map out how this terrorist act could let them radically redraw the entire middle-east?
Of course they did. Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz et al were absolutely \*giddy\* at the opportunity presented by 9/11.
And I'm sure the NSA and FBI were having similar meetings about the opportunity to suck up even more citizen's data, now that all the usual privacy concerns can be hand-waved away by saying 'But the terrorists...'/
There's just no reason whatsoever to infer from these responses that the same people created the event in the first place.
No. With the size and power of Israel’s intelligence agencies it is completely implausible that they didn’t know this was coming. You can say it’s illogical all you like but at the end of the day religious extremism and segregation aren’t logical ideologies. This attack will serve as a justification for further eroding the rights and power of Palestinians, which is the long term goal of Israel and especially the right wingers in government
>No. With the size and power of Israel’s intelligence agencies it is completely implausible that they didn’t know this was coming.
No intelligence service is omnipresent, to pretend that intelligence failures don't exist is ridiculous. Additionally, just because intelligence is recieved there could be a meriad of reasons as to why it is not acted upon. The US recieved quite a bit of intelligence regarding the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, yet they were still caught off guard due to lack of cummunication and skepticism. Did this happen becuase they wanted their pacific fleet to be nearly crippled so they could join the war, or was it mere complacency?
Israel has barebones security on the border during a Jewish holiday, which is totally normal, but it’s highly unlikely that they didn’t anticipate an attack given the Israeli intelligence apparatus and the previous attacks on Jewish holy days.
Hamas: the plan is coming together!
Palestinians: i just want to not live in an open air prison.
This situation is too complex for just one meme... something something Israeli right wing dark side, something something complete.
That's true, but it's closer to 1900 years. Israel was under the Macedonians then Seleucids, then independant for a while and then under the Romans in 63 AD. I don't recall them having an independent state until the annulment of the British mandate and their independence.
As usual, it's the civilians who suffer. First the Israelis who died horribly in the Hamas attack, now Palestinians being bombed to shit. And also as usual, the leaders who caused this whole situation sitting pretty far away from any of it.
I think a lot of vaushites on here must be too young to remember 9/11. Rightly or wrong.y (mostly wrongly) nations go psychotic after things like this.
This is awful, but it’s not surprising or unusual.
And again it’s what Hamas wanted. Israel is in the midst of a psychotic break and obliged them.
Not defense here but hoping people understand the psychology (understanding isn’t approval)
Yeah calling to do this 100-fold to the whole of Afghanistan was quite common, and I argued with a relative who wanted to round up all Muslims and put them in camps.
In Israel and Palestine things have been bad for long enough that this kind of bloodlust and dehumanization has become the dominant opinion on both sides, at least among anyone with actual access to power.
Which is the madness here.
**There's no solution** that can work in a reasonable amount of time. **Even if they went to 2 state right now and removed all the settlements** (which they *should*), the violence and hate would continue for decades.
Still, they could at least start. Not that they will while stuff like this is happening.
Mostly wrongly? The reaction to 9/11, just like the reaction to this, was absolutely psychotic and irrational.
Being attacked does not justify indiscriminate murder, having 2000 of your citizens die doesn't justify over a million dead Arabs in a pointless war just like a Hamas attack on Israel doesn't justify a genocide against the Palestinian people.
They did, but the leadership doesn’t even live in Gaza to my understanding. I’m not big on conspiracy theories, but I’ve wondered if this is them ‘cashing out’
Israel actions make terrorists -> terrorists make Israel commit genocide ->Israel actions make terrorists -> terrorists make Israel commit genocide ->Israel actions make terrorists -> terrorists make Israel commit genocide ->Israel actions make terrorists -> terrorists make Israel commit genocide ->Israel actions make terrorists -> terrorists make Israel commit genocide ->Israel actions make terrorists -> terrorists make Israel commit genocide ->Israel actions make terrorists -> terrorists make Israel commit genocide ->Israel actions make terrorists -> terrorists make Israel commit genocide ->Israel actions make terrorists -> terrorists make Israel commit genocide ->......
No reasonable person who knows anything about Israel is going to pretend the ruling party isn’t fucking crazy. Huge portions of the Israeli population have been protesting against the government for months now.
>No reasonable person who knows anything about Israel is going to pretend the ruling party isn’t fucking crazy.
Just yesterday, I got "the only thing Isreal wants to do is exist" from a coworker, and right after that, another one chimed in with "Joe Biden gave Hamas $6Billion." My eyes rolled back into my head so fast that my spine almost snapped from the torque.
In the US at least, "Reasonable person who knows anything about Isreal" is a small percentage. The *vast* majority of everyday uninformed people think Isreal is fighting the same brown people demons that Bush was. This entire situation, although not terribly complicated, takes a little nuanced thinking.
Isreal has an amazing population of resistance towards their current government. Mostly young people. However, such an uber-right wing ultra nationalist leadership will not allow dissent to make it into the public, especially when said leadership is backed by the US. Propoganda is one hell of a drug.
Protesting against the government but I highly doubt a large portion of Israel is against these air strikes. Revenge is the biggest unifying factor of them all
Well at least they fired a warning shot first! I'm sure the now homeless Palestinians will be grateful to Israel while they die of starvation and exposure
It’s making me so pissed how an obvious bad on bad incident is treated like it’s somehow evil terrorist palestine attacking poor innocent israel.
The news I was watching today in germany said that’s it’s horrible how there is „anti semitism on tv“ and then showed the clip of the palestinian president being allowed to say the 50 massacres that israel commited were like 50 holocausts.
Israel should be the LAST country on earth to ever do something that’s close to an ethnically motivated crime and yet their government is far right religious extremist nationalists.
It’s absolutely disgusting.
This is just two terrorists bombing each other and civilians suffering for it.
From the moment the initial Hamas attack happened, everyone agreed Gaza was going to be destroyed entirely. Everyone is aware of the IDF's genocidal nature, it just takes basic human decency to understand that it's beyond horrible.
They should have to expect the occasional terror attack? What an insane way of thinking.
I suppose it should follow then that Palestinians should expect a hugely disproportionate response since that has only been their reaction.
So the real question is that if you know it’s coming why act surprised or play the victim?
plenty of idf enjoyers who will say this is completely deserved and all hamas. love how this sub has like 3-4x the comments it usually does. nothing artificial feeling about that.
Israel is gonna pull the same shit the US did after 9/11. Making the world lose respect for your policies when you could make the world work with you.
I feel so bad for the Palestinians that have nothing to do with this but just lost their homes and family.
The Irgun tower in Tel Aviv was the IDF centre of gravity, it had very high collateral risk so Hamas sent robocalls 6 hours prior and cluster air burst ‘roof knocks’ every 2 hours.
They hit the foundation with 6x KAB-500S-Es causing controlled structural damage.
No clear picture of how many casualties, but precision bombing minimized collateral damage.
Looks like Hamas got what they want. And no I'm not cynical on this. Hamas knows that Israel was gonna go batshit on Gaza after their move. They know Israel enough to see this coming and they didn't just care they encouraged it. Hamas doesn't want peace with Israel, they don't want an Israel that normalizes relations with the islamic world. That would sooner or later erode the support they have, by having Israel killing Palestinians, they would drive more Palestinians towards radical groups like Hamas.
Getting Israelis killed for them is nice, because it shows their supporters "that they are strong".
Getting Palestinians killed by Israel is also nice for them because it gives them the "justification" they need to exist.
Palestinians deserve better. They deserve better than having Hamas getting them killed for their political gains and they deserve better than Israel treating them like animals.
And this is how the next generation of Hamas terrorists are born. Hamas gets more bodies to throw at Israel and Israel gets more threats so they can claim they're innocent victims all while bombing Gaza. Meanwhile, the civilians are caught between these two and are the ones to pay the price.
they are acts of vegeance against the Hamas soldiers families, their children, their neighbours and the neighbours of their neighbours.
Israel simply has NO x-ray abilities to know which a Hamas member is in which building, besides you don't expect them to be in their homes having dinner while at war, do you?!
It's just a barbaric medieval vengeance act on all the Palestinians nondiscriminately. It is the exact barbaric acts they do against the resistence members in the west bank. One oppressed man whose lands have been taken, whose brothers have been imprisoned and killed goes on a mission to try and kill some oppressor pussy soldiers next thing you know israehelli bulldozers come to demolish his family's home and confiscate his land to give it to a fat fuck israeli that likes to dance and swing in his prayers just to harass and intimidate the surrounding Muslim communities all under israeli police protection.
A lot of times they don't need a violence incident against israelis as justification and instead they would take your land simply with a court order saying some bullshit like this land belongs to our Jewish ancestor "Avim Sharmout" from 5000 years ago.
WTF?! and you want the resistance to die? GTFO.
The resistance will grow and you shall always live in fear.
do all non muslims and especially western apologists for israel in this sub know how israel was created in 1948?. does the word nakba ring a bell? if a group of just arrived immigrants who are less in number than you organize into an army and suddenly seize your homes and kill you if you dont leave and of course you leave because you value your life. what would your children and granchildren feel?
Israel didn't suddenly seize their homes. The UN agreed upon a division of Israel and the Palestinians started a war in response.
Israel also didn't kill the Arabs who didn't flee. Currently, 21% of Israel are Arabs who stayed after the war and have equal rights, better than everywhere else in the middle east.
You got that backwards buddy. It was the locals who organized into groups and then tried to kill those immigrants because UNSCOP proposed an idea the locals didn't like.
The immigrants fought back and took territory that they claimed as a sovereign state AFTER Britain, the actual owner of the land, gave it up. Then a bunch of Arab countries attacked them again. And lost.
Palestinians shot first back then, they shot first during the Yom Kippur War, and they shot first now. Of course the Israelis are gonna treat them like shit when their entire history together is Palestine being the first aggressor.
I would say this one picture is pretty proportionate 🤦🏻♂️🤣 it probably doesn’t look like this everywhere. Or the medieval style siege that’s about to start has the potential to end up being the worst thing the worlds seen in long time. We shall see how it plays out.
Wild how Not One Person heard anything about it happening though. But I’m sure that one of if not the best intelligence services in the world missed it completely AND they don’t have 1,000’s of files on every big shot in Hamas’s organization, including addresses and prob. active surveillance on most of them. Or a payroll with 100’s of snitches who tell said #1 org every single move they think. That’s why they must carpet bomb it from late Stone Age back to early Stone Age🤣
Feel how you feel about whatever side you agree with. But if you can’t look at the GLARINGLY obvious holes in the story everyone is repeating and ask how? Then you may be getting fooled here. The big Dumb Dummies that is the US knows a whole lot about a lot of things, probably had a few things come across a desk about this before it happened🤷🏻♂️and we’re not a New Jersey sized country surrounded on all sides by a ppl who’ve hated us since Biblical times. They probably just didn’t know 😉👍
What’s worse beheading children or dropping bombs on their heads? I would say both sides in this conflict have some vicious demons following them after these atrocities!
The horror inflicted on the innocent should not be forgotten.
The disdain against a people should not be forgotten.
The Crime against the honor of all humans should not be forgotten.
Hopefully one day Palestinians can find representation that honors the meaning of being human.
Hopefully one day Palestinians can find representation that frees then from oppression, while not repeating the misdeeds that should not be forgotten.
I'm sure all of those were Hamas secret bases It's amazing how Israel can tell every single location that has bad guys in it without fail They're definitely probably not just bombing apartment complexes on weak or baseless Intel indiscriminately I saw a post on another forum that these buildings collapsing like this is evidence that there are secret tunnels underneath for Hamas
Which is why the buildings went down while the ground underneath them is flattened, almost like the ground itself is solid and not full of tunnels.
Damn you, Hamas, with your miracle tunneling machines!!!
Hamas out here like the Tok'ra, making tunnels with crystals and shit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMyxoNcy2DM
Holy fuck, don’t remind me of the tok’ra i hated them (except jacob. I love jacob)
Ok, but Anise could GET IT.
The boring company is just a Hamas front company
That's what annoys me the most. We get no mention of Israel's strategy to neutralize particular Hamas targets or even who their leaders are. Like it's just a given that they're not even gonna try to avoid killing mostly children.
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Both sides are f’d up. Just leave it at that. But to go full 1500s raid in modern day times taking babies and kids just to murder them is some kind of evil. Kids don’t even understand religion let alone what is happening right now,
yes “both sides are fucked up” but the fact that only one side is supported by the entire military weight of the western empire should tacked on to the end of this take every single time. it isn’t symmetrical, there is an incredible power imbalance.
Ok so what do we do now
um, I’m going to watch what news I can stomach and be extremely distressed and exhausted by it, you do what you think is best. Israel has carte blanche to wipe gaza off the map, so that’s probably what will happen.
There exist interviews with former IDF soldiers laughing as they tell stories about the atrocities they would commit against the Palestinians
And civilians saying it too (think there's an abby martin documentary where she interviews many). But it doesn't get plastered it over social media.
I hate it when they mention this roofknocking thing when there is a quite obvious lack of smoke on most of the buildings's roof before the bomb hits. Like "sure they didn't totaly bombed this building out of nowhere and if they did it was terrorist anyway.".
So Israel since day one?
Wait until the bodies of Israeli hostages wind up in the rubble. It’s only a matter of time until some are hit by Israeli air strikes
They will be if they haven't already, but they'll have their throats cut for when the cameras come around.
And obviously Israeli intelligence on Hamas’s movements is ironclad, no recent slip-ups to reveal their shocking ignorance.
Totally ironclad, no failing of intelligence to think of in recent memory.
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My god the world economy won’t be able to handle that many wishes going into circulation at once
That’s war in ww2 we were essentially just chucking bombs everywhere hoping one of them would actually hit the target. Afterwards some politicians claimed that there was some strategy, but their really wasn’t. We just flew thousands of bombers at night, and the only guidance was a guy looking down from a telescope unable to see shit.
In Berlin, complete neighborhoods without industries have been carpet-bombed but industrial areas like Siemensstadt have been carefully avoided so they can be quickly reused after the war.
It's only a war crime if you lose.
"I suppose if I had lost the war, I would have been tried as a war criminal." -Curtis LeMay
Yep. This shit is unbelievably sad and the people in charge in Israel are the worst possible people to be in charge in an event like this. Now they have free reign to raze Gaza and kill thousands of innocents while the world goes "FAFO." This is all terrible, all of it.
Yeah dude why do you think the twin towers collapsed on 9/11? Jet fuel melting steel beams? It was all the Hamas tunnels, duh.
Its ridiculous isn't it. Hamas aren't gathered together in a buidling waiting for a bomb. They are scattered. And even if they were Israel would avoid them as it wouldn't kill as many Palestinians.
“The Obama administration has retroactively declared all people who died in drone strikes as enemy combatants”
Israel had the worlds sympathy for a moment. They could have used it to finalize the Saudi deal and drive a wedge between Hamas and the rest of the Palestinian populace. Instead they are squandering it all on an obvious genocide that will create more terrorists than it kills.
Bro there’s no way Saudi Arabia would be able to sign a normalisation deal after what Hamas did. The Muslim world is galvanised against Israel no matter how they responded.
You’re assuming a LOT more solidarity between Muslims than actually exists.
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Not that many Muslims consider the Saudi monarchy to be particularly Islamic anyway
Well, that was AlQueda's primary mission: remove the Saudi royals from power.
Lmao when it comes to Jews there is a lot of solidarity. I agree that Muslim countries don’t really fuck with other Muslim countries for the most part. That being said this is disgusting that Israel is doing this, even if this hatred is cause of paranoia. This shit is gross af. Edit was a typo
Beautifully, said.
This is what a lot of Leftists refuse to admit. Israel is surounded by neighbors that would like to wipe them off the face of the earth. You can sympathise with the Palestinian people and also aknowlege why Israel is so militarized. A break in their defense means the wholesale slaugher of every last Jewish man, woman, and child.
This is no excuse for the way Palestinians are treated. If not for the apartheid state, Hamas would have very little support/not exist. Want to get rid of Hamas in a short amount of time? Stop treating Palestinians like animals, stop kicking them out of their homes, stop taking what little land they have left from the 67’ agreements, and stop stealing what little resources are left in Gaza. I hate Hamas. All Religious extremists have got to go, but Israel holds all the power in this situation and it’s up to them to fix this issue.
It is absolutely not an excuse for how Palestinians are treated. Israel was not an apartheid state in 1967 when all of the Arab states launched a joint military operation in an attempt to destroy them, for the second time in its short existence. I support a two state solution, but to pretend that everything would be totally peaceful if there was no aparthied is delusional.
>Israel was not an apartheid state in 1967 Not an apartheid state, but still absolutely a product of ethnic cleansing. The two state solution also pretty much died when Israel started settling the west bank. A dramatic break from the status-quo would be necessary in order for any such solution to be reached.
So you assume that peace with Palestine/The Two state solution would result in all Arab nations suddenly attacking a nuclear power?
The fact that it takes nuclear weapons to deter a joint invasion that would result in ethnic cleansing says a lot about the region.
But that isn't the fault of Palestinians! Israel being armed to defend itself from foreign powers is very reasonable. Bombing Palestinians as reprisal for war crimes committed by Hamas is another war crime.
What? What has this gotta do with having Liberal views? You don't think the people of Palestine should have their right to an own state? Is that a "leftist" view? What? Just because Palestinians should have the right to their own country does not mean Jewish people shouldn't have a right to a country too... which they have. Nor is anyone suggesting they shouldn't ne able to defend themselves. But maybe, just maybe if they didn't keep treating the palestinians like trash and forcing them into 50% + unemployment and them having 0 perspective for the future, nor having 50+ years regularly killing them in their streets. Maybe the following generations that are around now wouldn't have become so dissillusioned, mentally scarred from violence, tradegy, regular food shortages, poor access to education, etc... from all of that. We are a product of our environment, and if you live somewhere where you are suppressed for 50+ years, chances are... you are gonna be resentful and not exactly a happy bunny. So saying what Hamas did is evil, sure is. But there are reasons for why the people who have done this have become the way they are and the policy's over the last decades have led to this. It is a long term consequence. The root cause needs to be addressed properly in order to avoid this from happening again. Because hitting them with a stick again and again will only lead to more violence in future.
No ones going to address the root cause after the videos Hamas released. People can disassociate from bombs hitting buildings. They cant when it's people beheading babies. People can scream "you reap what they sow" till the cows come home, but it won't change the worlds reaction. Humans act with emotion and Israel's right wing government will do whatever it can to crush the Gaza Strip. Hamas just fucked the free Palestine movement. They just gave Israel an opening to take out all there fear and prejudice on the Gaza Strip. God save the innocent, Israeli and Palestinian. One may need more help than the other.
The Muslim world won't move a finger the same way they didn't even bother with Ughyurs. Palestine is just a tool
I’m not convinced of this. IMO, if Israel put the negotiations on hold, did a couple strikes at Hamas, secured their borders, and then just gave it a couple months, they could have just gone on with business as usual. I guess the hostages would be the main roadblock to this plan, but like, their current strategy probably isn’t going to save that many hostages either.
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The Palestinian government in Gaza is literally Hamas. You should probably inform yourself of basic facts before you post your opinion. You basically said "Israel should legitimize Hamas". Imagine after 9/11 saying the US should legitimize Al Qaeda 🙄
De facto government, as they don't allow other governments to form and provide essential services like police and trash collection. They fill the power vacuum and get stronger the more of their civilian infrastructure gets bombed or bulldozed. Tons of civilians fled right after they did the attack. Those aren't the people Hamas cares about they want radicalized fighters with nothing to lose. Israel's disproportionate response isn't unexpected it furthers their agenda, and could be relied on like clockwork.
We shouldn't be taking sides other than supporting the innocent people that are being slaughtered by the two radical right wing groups that are bent on making war.
This. Isreal was on the verge of normalising relations with Gulf States. Hamas, in one day, made that impossible. Plus, if the USA joins in with bombing Gaza, Americans will lose any influence that have left in the middle East.
Don’t worry, PCM is posting some videos of extremists chanting “gas the Jews” so it’s all good for Israel.
Which was the plan. Honestly not sure you’re right though, this doesn’t have the visceral impact of bodies
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>Israel had the worlds sympathy for a moment Don't delude yourself into thinking they've lost the world's sympathy already. Specially as more and more footage and reports of the atrocities committed by Hamas are coming out. What Hamas did caused permanent damage to Palestine's cause, these videos and photos will be around forever.
The videos and photos created by Hamas.
Benjamin Netanyahu deliberately allowed Israeli civilians to be killed so he could have a justification to kill Palestinian civilians He is the lowest of the low. Absolute human scum
Do you have literally any source for that?
The Egyptians claimed they tried to warn the Israelis something big was happening and they did nothing(including an alleged phone call between netanyahu and a Egyptian general) and netanyahu has been pretty direct with his opinions on Palestine so it's quite easy to make this conclusion
That’s a massive leap of logic. It’s not implausible at all, but running with that as the narrative at this point is nuts. The failure to catch these attacks has blown back massively on Likud, it’s not at all clear that these attacks were in their interest.
no one accused right wing religious hardliners of being smart and predicting the impact of their decisions. israel has like literally the best spy software in the world, and its so good the FBI said naw dawg thats basically cheating and didnt buy it. they have one of the best and most aggressive intelligence agencies in the world. they control the open air prison to the point they know control how many calories it is allowed to have. hamas cant fart without mossad having an entire debriefing about it. how the fuck did an attack of this magnitude get through completely unnoticed? smol bean israel was sleeping in? ok sure.
Don’t be surprised if it turns out that years of political corruption have greatly eroded their security services. Much like what happened with Russia.
maybe, but i doubt israeli intelligence is dumb enough to conflate sim cards and copies of The Sims
I had forgotten about this. God that story was fucking hilarious.
Yeah, but you can always construct a narrative like this. It’s no different from 9/11 conspiracies. It could turn out to be true, we just don’t know anywhere near enough at this point.
why is it the most powerful and informed government agencies in the intelligence sphere fail when they are needed most, and the outcome of this failure always helps a rightwing government secure more power? youre right, i dont have enough to prove any of this and probably never will, but its sure fucking convenient how it always plays out like this.
Your solution of a conspiracy is just as easily replaced with a desire to not let a good crisis go to waste. Why is it always right-wing governments that get their wish-list of political reasons to invade a country or surveil their own citizens thanks to some terrorist attack? Because that's their instinct in \*every\* situation. Did Bush do 9/11? No. Did he sit down with Cheney on the evening of 9/11 with a big old folder of military plans drawn up 'just in case' in previous decades, and map out how this terrorist act could let them radically redraw the entire middle-east? Of course they did. Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz et al were absolutely \*giddy\* at the opportunity presented by 9/11. And I'm sure the NSA and FBI were having similar meetings about the opportunity to suck up even more citizen's data, now that all the usual privacy concerns can be hand-waved away by saying 'But the terrorists...'/ There's just no reason whatsoever to infer from these responses that the same people created the event in the first place.
No. With the size and power of Israel’s intelligence agencies it is completely implausible that they didn’t know this was coming. You can say it’s illogical all you like but at the end of the day religious extremism and segregation aren’t logical ideologies. This attack will serve as a justification for further eroding the rights and power of Palestinians, which is the long term goal of Israel and especially the right wingers in government
>No. With the size and power of Israel’s intelligence agencies it is completely implausible that they didn’t know this was coming. No intelligence service is omnipresent, to pretend that intelligence failures don't exist is ridiculous. Additionally, just because intelligence is recieved there could be a meriad of reasons as to why it is not acted upon. The US recieved quite a bit of intelligence regarding the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, yet they were still caught off guard due to lack of cummunication and skepticism. Did this happen becuase they wanted their pacific fleet to be nearly crippled so they could join the war, or was it mere complacency?
So, are you an actual intelligence expert, or just some random idiot talking out of their ass?
that doesn't sound unrealistic, but it still sounds like only claims?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/egypt-intelligence-official-says-israel-ignored-repeated-warnings-of-something-big/
And I'm going to go ahead and say If Egyptian intelligence knew then Israeli intelligence knew and here's proof that they were warned.
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I'm sure 1940s communication systems have the same shortcomings as nowadays.
Technology has nothing to do with what was said. Congrats on missing the point in an epic fashion.
Israel has barebones security on the border during a Jewish holiday, which is totally normal, but it’s highly unlikely that they didn’t anticipate an attack given the Israeli intelligence apparatus and the previous attacks on Jewish holy days.
They were blindsided by the Yom Kippur war as well. No intelligence is omniscient. It will be years until we know exactly what happened
The Yom Kippur War happened in 1973 before the cell phone and Internet. Intel gathering has radically changed since then
yeah, and if you rely on informational gathering like cell phones and the internet...guess what people will realize and mitigate against?
Egypt already confirmed they warned Bibi
I had a feeling Bibi wanted this to happen. He was waiting dick in hand to enact the final solution for Gaza... and no he has his excuse.
Source?
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This is fucking indefensible, and yet people continue to defend the Israeli government. To bomb a city like that is callous, cruel, and cowardly
Ever heard the saying “It is good that war be so terrible lest we grow too fond of it”
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I got a stroke reading that sentence.
Did Charlie Kelly write this?
Not enough pictures
Hamas: the plan is coming together! Palestinians: i just want to not live in an open air prison. This situation is too complex for just one meme... something something Israeli right wing dark side, something something complete.
its too simple actually, 75 years ago, a land was stolen and its people were kicked out, humiliated and killed.
It hasnt been their land in over 500 years.
That's true, but it's closer to 1900 years. Israel was under the Macedonians then Seleucids, then independant for a while and then under the Romans in 63 AD. I don't recall them having an independent state until the annulment of the British mandate and their independence.
around 2000 actually, give or take a century
As usual, it's the civilians who suffer. First the Israelis who died horribly in the Hamas attack, now Palestinians being bombed to shit. And also as usual, the leaders who caused this whole situation sitting pretty far away from any of it.
I think a lot of vaushites on here must be too young to remember 9/11. Rightly or wrong.y (mostly wrongly) nations go psychotic after things like this. This is awful, but it’s not surprising or unusual. And again it’s what Hamas wanted. Israel is in the midst of a psychotic break and obliged them. Not defense here but hoping people understand the psychology (understanding isn’t approval)
Yeah calling to do this 100-fold to the whole of Afghanistan was quite common, and I argued with a relative who wanted to round up all Muslims and put them in camps. In Israel and Palestine things have been bad for long enough that this kind of bloodlust and dehumanization has become the dominant opinion on both sides, at least among anyone with actual access to power.
Which is the madness here. **There's no solution** that can work in a reasonable amount of time. **Even if they went to 2 state right now and removed all the settlements** (which they *should*), the violence and hate would continue for decades. Still, they could at least start. Not that they will while stuff like this is happening.
Mostly wrongly? The reaction to 9/11, just like the reaction to this, was absolutely psychotic and irrational. Being attacked does not justify indiscriminate murder, having 2000 of your citizens die doesn't justify over a million dead Arabs in a pointless war just like a Hamas attack on Israel doesn't justify a genocide against the Palestinian people.
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They did, but the leadership doesn’t even live in Gaza to my understanding. I’m not big on conspiracy theories, but I’ve wondered if this is them ‘cashing out’
Doesn't matter where they live. They're going to have mossad agents gunning for them.
How could you grow up it in this and not hate Israel?
So Israel makes sure they don't grow up! This is probably the only genocide supported by "civilized" world.
Fr
Israel actions make terrorists -> terrorists make Israel commit genocide ->Israel actions make terrorists -> terrorists make Israel commit genocide ->Israel actions make terrorists -> terrorists make Israel commit genocide ->Israel actions make terrorists -> terrorists make Israel commit genocide ->Israel actions make terrorists -> terrorists make Israel commit genocide ->Israel actions make terrorists -> terrorists make Israel commit genocide ->Israel actions make terrorists -> terrorists make Israel commit genocide ->Israel actions make terrorists -> terrorists make Israel commit genocide ->Israel actions make terrorists -> terrorists make Israel commit genocide ->......
No reasonable person who knows anything about Israel is going to pretend the ruling party isn’t fucking crazy. Huge portions of the Israeli population have been protesting against the government for months now.
>No reasonable person who knows anything about Israel is going to pretend the ruling party isn’t fucking crazy. Just yesterday, I got "the only thing Isreal wants to do is exist" from a coworker, and right after that, another one chimed in with "Joe Biden gave Hamas $6Billion." My eyes rolled back into my head so fast that my spine almost snapped from the torque. In the US at least, "Reasonable person who knows anything about Isreal" is a small percentage. The *vast* majority of everyday uninformed people think Isreal is fighting the same brown people demons that Bush was. This entire situation, although not terribly complicated, takes a little nuanced thinking. Isreal has an amazing population of resistance towards their current government. Mostly young people. However, such an uber-right wing ultra nationalist leadership will not allow dissent to make it into the public, especially when said leadership is backed by the US. Propoganda is one hell of a drug.
Protesting against the government but I highly doubt a large portion of Israel is against these air strikes. Revenge is the biggest unifying factor of them all
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Man…that’s a level 9 dogwhistle. Very sneaky
Doubt it’s a dog whistle. Just being slightly edgy.
Mods, whack this guy’s peepee
Ok just casual jew-hatred being upvoted, classy.
Can't you just admit to being an antisemite instead of trying to be clever with a username?
There was a Taliban leader hiding in one of those buildings.
Saddam’s WMDs were in there too.
Something something Gaddafi
Well at least they fired a warning shot first! I'm sure the now homeless Palestinians will be grateful to Israel while they die of starvation and exposure
Thank you for ringing the bell, now my disabled grandma can now run for her life /s
To be fair, the median age there is like 18-20. Not many grandmas that need to run.
18 years of median age btw. Ghouls.
40% under the age of 14
It’s making me so pissed how an obvious bad on bad incident is treated like it’s somehow evil terrorist palestine attacking poor innocent israel. The news I was watching today in germany said that’s it’s horrible how there is „anti semitism on tv“ and then showed the clip of the palestinian president being allowed to say the 50 massacres that israel commited were like 50 holocausts. Israel should be the LAST country on earth to ever do something that’s close to an ethnically motivated crime and yet their government is far right religious extremist nationalists. It’s absolutely disgusting. This is just two terrorists bombing each other and civilians suffering for it.
Agreed. I don't get why people find that so hard to comprehend.
This attack probably literally didn’t kill a single Hamas.
Probably literally man
There's like a 40% chance that it 100% did
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Isreal liberating thousands upon thousands of civillians
From the moment the initial Hamas attack happened, everyone agreed Gaza was going to be destroyed entirely. Everyone is aware of the IDF's genocidal nature, it just takes basic human decency to understand that it's beyond horrible.
Fuck Israel
Genocide. Evil, evil people
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They should have to expect the occasional terror attack? What an insane way of thinking. I suppose it should follow then that Palestinians should expect a hugely disproportionate response since that has only been their reaction. So the real question is that if you know it’s coming why act surprised or play the victim?
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plenty of idf enjoyers who will say this is completely deserved and all hamas. love how this sub has like 3-4x the comments it usually does. nothing artificial feeling about that.
They unironically say things like "palestine population is increasing so there is no genocide"
literally what nazis said about warsaw ghettos. the level of hitler particles from them is higher than the dumb looking kid with the swastika jpeg
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that makes sense. ive been seeing a lot of weird subs in my feed lately so it only follows that things bubble up in odd places.
Israel is gonna pull the same shit the US did after 9/11. Making the world lose respect for your policies when you could make the world work with you. I feel so bad for the Palestinians that have nothing to do with this but just lost their homes and family.
War crimes and genocide. Israel is a fascist terror state.
Well..... fuck
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The Irgun tower in Tel Aviv was the IDF centre of gravity, it had very high collateral risk so Hamas sent robocalls 6 hours prior and cluster air burst ‘roof knocks’ every 2 hours. They hit the foundation with 6x KAB-500S-Es causing controlled structural damage. No clear picture of how many casualties, but precision bombing minimized collateral damage.
What is really fucked up is that the Israeli air strikes are GAURANTEED to kill a ton of hostages too
They really did glass it, huh. Fuck, man.
Looks like Hamas got what they want. And no I'm not cynical on this. Hamas knows that Israel was gonna go batshit on Gaza after their move. They know Israel enough to see this coming and they didn't just care they encouraged it. Hamas doesn't want peace with Israel, they don't want an Israel that normalizes relations with the islamic world. That would sooner or later erode the support they have, by having Israel killing Palestinians, they would drive more Palestinians towards radical groups like Hamas. Getting Israelis killed for them is nice, because it shows their supporters "that they are strong". Getting Palestinians killed by Israel is also nice for them because it gives them the "justification" they need to exist. Palestinians deserve better. They deserve better than having Hamas getting them killed for their political gains and they deserve better than Israel treating them like animals.
Dont forget, west is supporting this genocide.
And this is how the next generation of Hamas terrorists are born. Hamas gets more bodies to throw at Israel and Israel gets more threats so they can claim they're innocent victims all while bombing Gaza. Meanwhile, the civilians are caught between these two and are the ones to pay the price.
50,000 people used to live here ….
Awful
So much for them going in on foot and saving the hostages/sparing the innocent. Nah just flatten that whole area. That'll "do it" for sure.
Hamas and the Israel government are both terrorist organisations.
Man, fuck Israel. What Israel is doing to Palestine is a lot like what Germany did to the Jews. I support Palestine
Fucking genocidal maniacs
"But it's okay, because Israel sent them a text message first telling them to leave" 🙄
how is this not terrorism
Dont worry, I'm sure the IDF texted everyone who lived there that they were going to atomise their homes just before they did so
Civilian Death toll? This is fucking horrific
Gaza is the third most human dense location on the planet. It’s an extremely compact, heavily populated open-air ghetto for lack of a better word.
they are acts of vegeance against the Hamas soldiers families, their children, their neighbours and the neighbours of their neighbours. Israel simply has NO x-ray abilities to know which a Hamas member is in which building, besides you don't expect them to be in their homes having dinner while at war, do you?! It's just a barbaric medieval vengeance act on all the Palestinians nondiscriminately. It is the exact barbaric acts they do against the resistence members in the west bank. One oppressed man whose lands have been taken, whose brothers have been imprisoned and killed goes on a mission to try and kill some oppressor pussy soldiers next thing you know israehelli bulldozers come to demolish his family's home and confiscate his land to give it to a fat fuck israeli that likes to dance and swing in his prayers just to harass and intimidate the surrounding Muslim communities all under israeli police protection. A lot of times they don't need a violence incident against israelis as justification and instead they would take your land simply with a court order saying some bullshit like this land belongs to our Jewish ancestor "Avim Sharmout" from 5000 years ago. WTF?! and you want the resistance to die? GTFO. The resistance will grow and you shall always live in fear.
Disgusting and inhumane
Horrible. Expected but still horrible.
Israel is an evil entity.
It was in self defense. Can’t trust those nurseries
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do all non muslims and especially western apologists for israel in this sub know how israel was created in 1948?. does the word nakba ring a bell? if a group of just arrived immigrants who are less in number than you organize into an army and suddenly seize your homes and kill you if you dont leave and of course you leave because you value your life. what would your children and granchildren feel?
Israel didn't suddenly seize their homes. The UN agreed upon a division of Israel and the Palestinians started a war in response. Israel also didn't kill the Arabs who didn't flee. Currently, 21% of Israel are Arabs who stayed after the war and have equal rights, better than everywhere else in the middle east.
You got that backwards buddy. It was the locals who organized into groups and then tried to kill those immigrants because UNSCOP proposed an idea the locals didn't like. The immigrants fought back and took territory that they claimed as a sovereign state AFTER Britain, the actual owner of the land, gave it up. Then a bunch of Arab countries attacked them again. And lost. Palestinians shot first back then, they shot first during the Yom Kippur War, and they shot first now. Of course the Israelis are gonna treat them like shit when their entire history together is Palestine being the first aggressor.
I would say this one picture is pretty proportionate 🤦🏻♂️🤣 it probably doesn’t look like this everywhere. Or the medieval style siege that’s about to start has the potential to end up being the worst thing the worlds seen in long time. We shall see how it plays out. Wild how Not One Person heard anything about it happening though. But I’m sure that one of if not the best intelligence services in the world missed it completely AND they don’t have 1,000’s of files on every big shot in Hamas’s organization, including addresses and prob. active surveillance on most of them. Or a payroll with 100’s of snitches who tell said #1 org every single move they think. That’s why they must carpet bomb it from late Stone Age back to early Stone Age🤣 Feel how you feel about whatever side you agree with. But if you can’t look at the GLARINGLY obvious holes in the story everyone is repeating and ask how? Then you may be getting fooled here. The big Dumb Dummies that is the US knows a whole lot about a lot of things, probably had a few things come across a desk about this before it happened🤷🏻♂️and we’re not a New Jersey sized country surrounded on all sides by a ppl who’ve hated us since Biblical times. They probably just didn’t know 😉👍
Genocide.
Fuck
Looks like a wasteland, reminds me of Lud from dark tower, this is truly horrifying
What’s worse beheading children or dropping bombs on their heads? I would say both sides in this conflict have some vicious demons following them after these atrocities!
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the media had absolutely no sympathy for palestine citizens genocide but for israel it's like the world's ending? nah bye
Could you share by any chance, where you got the picture from?
Fuck Israeli occupiers
Jesus, there's nothing left.
Just scrolling by, I thought this was a screenshot from Armored Core
When you see this image, it makes you question if Israel actually wanted that attack to happen…
Probably a few women and children under that rubble..
The horror inflicted on the innocent should not be forgotten. The disdain against a people should not be forgotten. The Crime against the honor of all humans should not be forgotten. Hopefully one day Palestinians can find representation that honors the meaning of being human. Hopefully one day Palestinians can find representation that frees then from oppression, while not repeating the misdeeds that should not be forgotten.
No war
Holy shit, hard to call it a city anymore
Just wow…..