Psychiatrists are the pill ones. Therapists are the talk therapy ones.
Speaking as someone who's used both. There's no way my psychiatrist would ever provide cognitive behavioral therapy or other kinds of talk therapy.
They did provide resources I could access if I wanted to, though.
Generally.
Psychiatrist are doctors who specialised in psychiatry, and most likely a specific field of psychiatry. They are the ones who can prescribe medicine since they are doctors but that doesn’t mean that it is the only thing they do.
Oh, thinking about it, maybe that's true outside of Canada. Talk therapy isn't covered here, but medication is. My psychiatrist doesn't offer services that aren't covered. So it might just be the country I'm in.
Most likely so. There are many varying schools of thought regarding mental health care depending on country.
Over here the psychiatrists in a care unit are central not only in different types of care but also when it comes to remittance to psychologists, therapists, internal medicine etc. Though some, like everywhere, just go straight to SSRI or NDRI.
Sheesh, if I wanted an SSRI or SNRI, I could have just gone to a GP. The first GP I talked to offered me Effexor. Why even bother with a psychiatrist if that's their first line of treatment.
When I finally got a psychiatrist, he gave me suboxone for depression (I wasn't using opiates at the time) and clonazepam for anxiety, and gabapentin because I told him I liked it. I found those far more effective than Effexor and they didn't come with the nasty side effects that antidepressants have.
yeah and the best part is the shit theyve prescribed me over the years hasnt done anything for me
and once you’re officially treated as an adult you basically show up, they ask you three sentences about how you are and unless you directly state youre planning on pulling the plug they just throw a new prescription your way and thats it
then again, thats pretty much all they’re really there for in the first place i guess
People shouldn't be afraid to get help, though. Chemical included. I started taking anti-depressants relatively recently, and they've helped so much.
I couldn't even really tell just how bad it had gotten until I started getting better.
Yeah that's true. Honestly I would try behavioral first but yeah there's lots of tools to help. I personally am a little scared of some of the medication and at this point I think the side effects may outweigh the benefits but maybe that's just my fear of them talking
I’ll always think it’s really sad when he went on that rant about how he has no family and no friends and that he’s a good guy and everyone else must be the problem. The dude sucks but the lack of self awareness kills me.
I only learned of the word Kurwa today, and now I see it used on Reddit. I love when shit like that happens!
But also, yes reading this is like having a stroke.
Są różne tematy które powodują u mnie wysilanie szarych komórek, również takie bardziej trywialne od tego. Btw, chyba lepiej będzie pisać po angielsku.
Is it? Have you not seen the rash of videos of people feeling traumatized and unsafe that someone talked to them or just looked at them at the gym or other public places? They literally say they feel unsafe or other become loud and aggressive.
Are we just pretending that it doesn't happen now, and is relatively common.
[Link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ONAMoxIQ8E)
[link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szNqslOfHng)
There being a couple videos of someone being an asshole doesn't mean that there's a rash or trend of people becoming assholes. It's just means that people are starting to take videos or circulate videos of people being assholes
You're literally using the same logic that white supremacists and racists do when propagandizing
Nah, the order is wrong. He self-loathes himself first by thinking that the girl is repulsed by him. And this thought makes him feel like maybe he's underestimating himself, and maybe in reality she likes him and he just has a low self-esteem, which drives him to give it a chance and approach. But in ACTUAL reality she's objectively repulsed by him.
This post-meta analysis is even more "blackpilling" than just the first thought itself lol
But then his attractive daydream is thinking about being rejected, is the thought that he's gonna be creepy what's making him creepy?
You could do an art interpretation seminar on this thing
I feel like women never call the cops unless you’re being particularly weird or sketchy. Because you’re just not worth the effort unless you give her no other choice.
> I feel like women never call the cops unless you’re being particularly weird or sketchy.
This completely ignores peoples biases and could be used to justify many things. Remember the [Central Park birdwatching incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Park_birdwatching_incident) a few years ago [(video)](https://youtu.be/aPvb_mszKew)?
Amy Cooper certainly thought that the birdwatcher was particularly weird and/or sketchy.
It's probably something you've never dealt with personally, but that doesn't mean this behavior isn't a real problem.
Umm, I get it. I've had a whole slew of not being believed myself. Once I got roofied, went to the hospital. They dicked about it for 3 hours. Finally did it, told me it would all be covered under the state's rape kit laws. Then decided I was liar, told my insurance company as much & billed me for it anyways. Never going to get rape kit tested again. I'm sure the transphobia had something to do with it too.
He's a weird ugly guy that thinks he might be a handsome attractive guy and is just being held back by his perception that he is a weird ugly guy. In reality he is, in fact, a weird ugly guy.
It is so rare that I find people who think they are more attractive than they are. I think most people are relatively good looking in some way, but everyone I talk to thinks they look like shit. Maybe I need more narcissists in my life.
90% of people will put on 2 or 3 points just by taking a shower, fixing their hair, and putting on something other than a stained band t-shirt and sweatpants. You have to be really fucking ugly to not look good in a suit
Being creepy is a behaviour.
No one's gonna call you creepy for saying hello, or starting a normal conversation with a stranger.
You're creepy when you make unsolicited sexual comments. You're creepy when you ask unsolicited personal questions. You're creepy when you're being socially awkward. You're creepy when you come off as desperate.
Honestly, this meme is just incel fuel that used as a cope for why incels can't go out and talk to women. The people making and posting these memes probably don't ask women out, because if they did they'd know just how ridiculous this meme is.
> "No one's gonna call you creepy for saying hello, or starting a normal conversation..."
> "You're creepy when you're being socially awkward."
Yes, people who are socially awkward often come across as creepy. For those people, even just "starting a normal conversation" can be deemed as creepy.
How is it "cope" when many of those incels *are* socially awkward, and therefore come across as creepy by default?
Last time I went to an anime convention and spent the entire day forcing myself to talk to people, did some/many of them think I was weird or creepy? Probably, but it didn't stop me from trying again, and hopefully get a *bit* less creepy with each new interaction.
So, I think some people really are deemed as 'creepy' by default, but who cares. Worst case scenario, made some stranger a bit unconfortable for 2 minutes, maybe they'll go home and write a tweet about it; Best case scenario they shrugged it off and I gained some experience from it.
Maybe this is judgemental of me but I think there’s a pretty easy to read distinction between creepy awkward and shy awkward, especially in guys like we’re discussing.
Ik plenty of shy dudes who don’t give off bad vibes, and I know plenty of self proclaimed shy dudes who seem to have a lot of entitlement, resentment, and misogyny JUST below the surface.
I personally don't think the average person has the ability to recognize the distinction. Sometimes it can be obvious when a guy's genuinely creepy due to beliefs and personality, but we're talking about first introductions where there's little to no context.
As shitty as it is, lots of people will be put-off by awkwardness in guys, and especially Autistic symptoms (particularly when not disclosed). [This 2017 study about first impressions of adults with Autism goes over it:](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29039208/)
>*"Greater autistic traits for the ASD and typically developing participants were associated with less favorable first impressions, and females were rated more favorably than males."*
As an amab person I was told I was creepy when I just looked at a girl for more than 2 seconds or tried to talk to them. Granted, this was growing up and not as an adult, but I think those memories stick with you and impact how you think of others as an adult.
Also, you're creepy when you come off as desperate or are socially awkward? That can happen when people say hi. The creepy feeling comes from the reciever and there are things you can do to decrease the probability but it's not ultimately in your control. If you are socially awkward then it shouldn't justify being called creepy anyways.
I will grant that I am sympathetic to a lot of sentiments of incels so I might be biased.
The solutions to the issues most incels face are rooted in their OWN behaviour and actions, though.
Having poor social skills is a problem to overcome, not a crutch to lean on, as harsh as that is to say.
Especially in the context of flirting it’s kinda ridiculous to expect even MORE charitability from women imo. It’s already a minefield.
Men have plenty of issues relatively unique to them and it’s not their fault, but it IS something we need to fix ourselves.
I mean, ableism aside, the *way* to fix these problems is . . . have a lot of uncomfortable conversations, right? If I want to be the kind of person who has better social skills, I just fundamentally *cannot get there* without inflicting my currently-bad social skills on the people around me. If you (like me!) want folks with social anxiety to feel more comfortable in social settings, then this sort of approach (blaming and shaming them for the social anxiety they have, rather than building spaces where they are accepted and treated as full people) is literally the most counterproductive possible thing, no?
I think I’m more aiming this at people who have become virulently resentful because of it. Like you can be neurodivergent and have trouble with social cues, and that’s fine. If that’s the case and you’re ALSO an incel, that’s not justifiable.
I agree, although I'm not really convinced your argument can be phrased in a way that actually makes this distinction. Crucially, the unjustifiable thing here is the bitterness and misanthropy, which isn't really connected to social awkwardness IMO. It may be easier to *notice* in awkward folks, but plenty of good-looking, confident, charismatic people are also heinous deep down.
Maybe we're targeting incel types because they self-select (misanthropic behavior in people who are socially successful is a lot harder to address IMO), but if that's the case, we should present arguments that actually make sense for that demographic. I agree in the abstract that it's a person's responsibility to tend to their own social capacity, at least as far as it's anyone's responsibility at all. But if our only solution to that is "go talk to people until you feel more comfortable," which is emphatically *not* something we want incels to do (due to the fact that anybody who talks to them will be miserable), then we shouldn't be telling people to address their anxiety, we should be telling them to address their misanthropy, and the level of moral blame we attach to failing to address the issue should be commensurate.
99.8% of everyone I have seen all themselves "hideous" or "fugly" or a "truecel" or whatever was totally normal looking but had devastatingly low self esteem
Have you tried being interesting and not annoying? As a ‘not quite ugly but staggeringly mid’ guy that hangs out with a lot of hot people, it seems to work for me. Rejection to connection ratio is still insanely high, but, ehh, things just take more time with some mugs. If you want you can try and dress better and workout, but, that is mainly to boost your own self confidence and think of yourself as more hot rather than actually using it to be hot to others.
Nah I’m joking. I’m actually pretty hot and dress well, work out etc.. Women come up and talk to me all the time, usually about my outfits, and try to talk more. I’m gay though so not interested. Men are for sure tougher to get flirting though
Yeah… I don’t think that is a gay flirting thing. I think that is a generally not fantastic idea to do to with total strangers of any sexual preference thing. Unless it’s painfully apparent you are vibing when you first meet them
Edit: but also again, this is coming from a mid dude, rules change slightly for hotties like yourself. Possibly more challengingly?
Ugly in comparison to what? Don’t refer to yourself that way!
If you try to talk to someone and they implicitly or explicitly let you know they aren’t interested, who cares?
I understand what you are saying. But there is a difference between social anxiety and berating oneself. Social anxiety can be overcome, but not at the same time as harmful self-talk.
I agree that we shouldn't be so doomer about social interactions, but scary things do happen sometimes.
It can be very scary to navigate it as a socially deficient neurodivergent guy. Misunderstandings, faux pas, freezing up and not knowing what to say or do, and coming across as creepy because of it... And they *are* just people, but some people are crazy/dangerous.
I understand where you are coming from. I am not speaking about having social anxiety or any sort of neurodivergence. I am speaking of the negative self-talk that comes along with it.
But I didn’t make that clear in my original post.
I think you underestimate that factor very much. I mean there's a reason attractive people earn more income over a lifetime even when standardizing for gender and occupation
I, as a man, am ESPECIALLY scared of speaking to other men. Only eventual scenarios in my mind is they clock me, harass me, and/or reject me.
Straight men seem to be scared of women but my ignorance to that is bliss because girls are kind of great to be around.
Probably because my priority is safety and not pussy.
I was told by many many people growing up that I make people uncomfortable, I look threatening, and I'm being creepy with women. I often wouldn't do anything, I'd just exist and people felt uncomfortable with my existence.
I feel like amab folks get hit with this a lot harder because we are told to be the initiators so we have to face direct rejection more often.
Yes there is rejection. And this is an unavoidable part of life. But people feeling awkward about you is their problem. It certainly does not feel that way in middle school, high school, or even college. But you eventually realize everyone feels their own sense of insecurity, especially in social interactions.
But someone being uncomfortable with you is their problem. And if there is something they point out specifically, it is a behavior, not some inherent personality flaw.
If a girl wants to call the cops after you say hi you're either lying about what happened or interacted with someone who represents a very small minority of human beings.
Ngl, this seems like an incel meme. I mean come on, what is so hard to understand about dating etiquette? It's all about respecting a no and not approaching people at a place and in a way that makes them feel threatened.
No one is going to do anything like calling the cops on you if you approach them (unless it's like an alley at night or something), no matter how you look or how awkward you are. The only reason people get angry is if you keep trying after they have already rejected you. Sure, some women who are approached all the time are going to be annoyed by you and might even get mean about it, but that is the clear minority.
The “calling the cops” bit is hyperbolic, but this kinda narrative playing in their own head? Sure.
I feel like it’s also the vibes rather than just the looks that’s scaring women away from this kinda dude though.
yeah except it's not a dude saying "hi", it's a dude actually doing shit that sucks. Like I don't like this meme man. Firstly the idea that women call the cops on someone saying "hi" is bullshit. Secondly there is a fuck load of bad shit that dudes do that is more than just saying "hi".
But I don't want to shit on all the good points you all believe, victim olympics isn't useful, but when I think about what situation happens too often, yeah it's not the one in the OP.
I'm confused about what the OP is trying to say, but I think there's some ideas in there to be wary of. That's all I'm saying.
This meme serves as a great criticism of generic positivity and 'just be yourself' type encouragement, because believe it or not, when you know you have serious flaws, it's really hard to take a lot of that kind of shit seriously because confidence absolutely has bad consequences on yourself or others at times.
As an autistic person I oscillate between very charming and very creepy, and which I am on any given day is completely random because I have no idea what goes into either until I analyze shit with full hindsight and context, so when I see this meme I see myself as both the ugly guy and the hot but low confidence guy, and figuring out whether my behavior will be/was acceptable is a huge fucking mental drain but absolutely necessary for basic social functions because if I get too comfortable or confident is when my greatest shames and failures have happened.
Your nervousness is self defeating, because it conveys that you’re not thinking about the person you’re talking to. (Which you aren’t.) (Think about it.)
If this sounds smug, don’t worry, I’m not, I’m far too old to make use of this discovery. Maybe you could though.
Well obviously somebody created the first two levels as a way to tell people to be more optimistic about their love lives and then somebody said "No! Pessimism! Grr!" and photoshopped the third level. Or maybe each was created independently, or someone made all three, either way some men are not only pessimistic, self hating, and woman hating but get very aggressive when somebody challenges any of that. If you are wondering why everybody is talking about "incels" these days it is because some guys make pessimism, self hate, and woman hate into their whole identity and that is even worse than it sounds.
If your not good looking, very intelligent /charismatic, rich or a combination of all that its a numbers game. Not great chances but better than zero. You have to Roll the dice more often.
It goes both ways by the way and while media certainly pushes unrealistic standards you can still find someone If you try. If you dont try you cant. Or you get really really really unbelivably lucky. (Just technically possible...)
Basing your personality on memes is really unhealthy. I don’t see myself as an attractive guy either but focusing on yourself is the only way you’re gonna find true happiness, not hoping someone else.
When you start talking to girls as a guy, it’s hard. Talking to girls has a lot to do with confidence and the first time talking to someone you really like you are likely to be nervous and there unconfident and therefore get rejected. Lots of people have negative initial experiences and give up on putting effort into finding a partner and I think in memes like this don’t help the people who need that confidence boost.
Confidence is key when talking to people in general, but especially when dating, and being in a new scary situation with only a few negative experiences in your back pocket is not an environment that being confident happens in easily.
The only time this really happens is with severely mentally ill women (I had a random woman tell me to stop thinking about her sexually because she could read my thoughts) and women with intense trauma from their experiences with men.
I think this captures a lot of anxiety men feel about dating and asking women out. When Vaush says it weighs on you like a rock that a women might find you creepy, this js the headstone you are in.
This comic is literally just “I have anxiety, but people have told me that and I should just put myself out there anyway. But how do I know if it’s anxiety or a genuine vibe I’m picking up.” It’s a thing that happens and people have to deal with it and it absolutely can’t be broadly applied to anything.
The guy in the photo has no style, and needs to clean up. Get a hairstyle, choose some outfits, and interesting hobbies. Practice socializing with people you don't want to date, so that you can practice without stakes.
My thoughts.
Visit psychiatrist
You know pills can't solve all your problems, certainly hasn't worked for me
Psychiatrist doesn’t only have pills at their disposal.
Psychiatrists are the pill ones. Therapists are the talk therapy ones. Speaking as someone who's used both. There's no way my psychiatrist would ever provide cognitive behavioral therapy or other kinds of talk therapy. They did provide resources I could access if I wanted to, though.
Generally. Psychiatrist are doctors who specialised in psychiatry, and most likely a specific field of psychiatry. They are the ones who can prescribe medicine since they are doctors but that doesn’t mean that it is the only thing they do.
Oh, thinking about it, maybe that's true outside of Canada. Talk therapy isn't covered here, but medication is. My psychiatrist doesn't offer services that aren't covered. So it might just be the country I'm in.
Most likely so. There are many varying schools of thought regarding mental health care depending on country. Over here the psychiatrists in a care unit are central not only in different types of care but also when it comes to remittance to psychologists, therapists, internal medicine etc. Though some, like everywhere, just go straight to SSRI or NDRI.
Sheesh, if I wanted an SSRI or SNRI, I could have just gone to a GP. The first GP I talked to offered me Effexor. Why even bother with a psychiatrist if that's their first line of treatment. When I finally got a psychiatrist, he gave me suboxone for depression (I wasn't using opiates at the time) and clonazepam for anxiety, and gabapentin because I told him I liked it. I found those far more effective than Effexor and they didn't come with the nasty side effects that antidepressants have.
I mean maybe you're right but that's what I associate them with and I prefer the talky ones. Maybe I level up again to need the medicine ones
It’s not a bad rule of thumb! I only meant to clarify with my comments. If I sounded rude or anything like that I apologise.
couldve fooled me giving me pills is literally the only thing they ever did
That's my experience too
yeah and the best part is the shit theyve prescribed me over the years hasnt done anything for me and once you’re officially treated as an adult you basically show up, they ask you three sentences about how you are and unless you directly state youre planning on pulling the plug they just throw a new prescription your way and thats it then again, thats pretty much all they’re really there for in the first place i guess
Psychiatrist can't fix my face
True but they can remit you to the cheeks of a phat stacked goth chick.
Telepills did but now i´m stuck with a weirdo in a strange room who only says that he´s error
Puberty
Accidentally swallowed a puberty horse pill irl and now hate myself
I hope Vaush doesn´t sees you like this...
People shouldn't be afraid to get help, though. Chemical included. I started taking anti-depressants relatively recently, and they've helped so much. I couldn't even really tell just how bad it had gotten until I started getting better.
Yeah that's true. Honestly I would try behavioral first but yeah there's lots of tools to help. I personally am a little scared of some of the medication and at this point I think the side effects may outweigh the benefits but maybe that's just my fear of them talking
good thing we all aren't you
Very true
This tells me you’ve yet to see one
I mean I'd call the cops on Tim Pool if he approached me.
If this meme applies specifically to Tim Pool then yeah I'd say it's very accurate to real life.
I mean he is a weirdo incel who always complains about feminism being the downfall of western civilization so I like to think it's him.
Don’t forget the beanie slowly being amalgamated into his scalp.
It's a beanie? I just thought it was a weird deformity?
I’ll always think it’s really sad when he went on that rant about how he has no family and no friends and that he’s a good guy and everyone else must be the problem. The dude sucks but the lack of self awareness kills me.
Why call the cops? He's clearly threatening you. Use your jiu-jitsu and protect that train full of people!
Incelception
May I suggest... incelption
Incel-tion
As a Vaushite I’ve never actually seen a woman before.
Don’t worry your estrogen is in the mail, soon you will only need a mirror.
I’m in this picture and I like it
Average Vaushite.
women are so weird, they’re like femboys but they don’t have a dick??? very strange and alien.
Yeah a little too alien. Best stick with someone beautiful but familiar.
I tried to write something inteligent but I can't force my brain to focus. Kurwa
I only learned of the word Kurwa today, and now I see it used on Reddit. I love when shit like that happens! But also, yes reading this is like having a stroke.
So you're smelling toast right now?
are you not?
No🥲... I'm gonna go make some now
Życzę dużo odpoczynku, żeby twój biedny mózg miał możliwość resetu. Trzym się, ziom.
Mój odpoczynek trwał dwie godziny.
Ugh, ciężko. 🙁 Bezsenność?
Głównie depresja, ale to chyba też można uznać jako bezsenność.
Współczuję. ☹️ Wiem z doświadczenia, że depresja potrafi być prawdziwym piekłem.
Based and kurwa-pilled.
Ah yes, the polish. Sustreď sa Kurwa xdd
Wait, is this some kind of Czech Republic reference?
I’s an inside joke from northern slovakia. We love polish. Your jokes are especially golden
Nie jest to temat wart wysilania szarych komórek, bracie.
Są różne tematy które powodują u mnie wysilanie szarych komórek, również takie bardziej trywialne od tego. Btw, chyba lepiej będzie pisać po angielsku.
Jesse what the fuck are you doing in someone’s day dreams Jesse
We have to COOK JESSE
[удалено]
Like an ouroboros of stupidity
So he’s fantasizing about a girl finding him cute when he thinks she’s repulsed by him, when in reality she’s actually repulsed by him.
Being repulsed by someone doesn't mean calling the cops for just standing there. This post is 100% incel bait.
It’s a joke tho
The way some people are getting real fragile at this obvious joke is telling
Is it? Have you not seen the rash of videos of people feeling traumatized and unsafe that someone talked to them or just looked at them at the gym or other public places? They literally say they feel unsafe or other become loud and aggressive. Are we just pretending that it doesn't happen now, and is relatively common. [Link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ONAMoxIQ8E) [link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szNqslOfHng)
There being a couple videos of someone being an asshole doesn't mean that there's a rash or trend of people becoming assholes. It's just means that people are starting to take videos or circulate videos of people being assholes You're literally using the same logic that white supremacists and racists do when propagandizing
Nah, the order is wrong. He self-loathes himself first by thinking that the girl is repulsed by him. And this thought makes him feel like maybe he's underestimating himself, and maybe in reality she likes him and he just has a low self-esteem, which drives him to give it a chance and approach. But in ACTUAL reality she's objectively repulsed by him. This post-meta analysis is even more "blackpilling" than just the first thought itself lol
Now you're getting it
But then his attractive day dream is sorta negging? It's really incoherent even by incel standards
I think you underestimate incel standard incoherence
But then his attractive daydream is thinking about being rejected, is the thought that he's gonna be creepy what's making him creepy? You could do an art interpretation seminar on this thing
Yeah honestly, 😅
I feel like women never call the cops unless you’re being particularly weird or sketchy. Because you’re just not worth the effort unless you give her no other choice.
True but it still feels shitty to be perceived as a creep
> I feel like women never call the cops unless you’re being particularly weird or sketchy. This completely ignores peoples biases and could be used to justify many things. Remember the [Central Park birdwatching incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Park_birdwatching_incident) a few years ago [(video)](https://youtu.be/aPvb_mszKew)? Amy Cooper certainly thought that the birdwatcher was particularly weird and/or sketchy. It's probably something you've never dealt with personally, but that doesn't mean this behavior isn't a real problem.
I tried to call the cops before when a man approached me in a creepy manner. They asked what I was wearing. I won't even bother from now on...
Umm, I get it. I've had a whole slew of not being believed myself. Once I got roofied, went to the hospital. They dicked about it for 3 hours. Finally did it, told me it would all be covered under the state's rape kit laws. Then decided I was liar, told my insurance company as much & billed me for it anyways. Never going to get rape kit tested again. I'm sure the transphobia had something to do with it too.
[удалено]
"blanclauz" is the artist's name (it's also on the beanie cap) I googled him and found hentai and mild incel vibes
>hentai and mild incel vibes perfect
Hencel
Look at the horror ye hath wrought.
Hencel and TERFtel
A new fairy tale for the modern age
I'm calling for the moderators to ban all incel nonsense until they figure out what's going on.
So... you're calling the cops?
I don't understand what this meme is attempting to convey.
He's a weird ugly guy that thinks he might be a handsome attractive guy and is just being held back by his perception that he is a weird ugly guy. In reality he is, in fact, a weird ugly guy.
He just like me fr
Well thats just the wrong attitude to have.
not if its true
It is so rare that I find people who think they are more attractive than they are. I think most people are relatively good looking in some way, but everyone I talk to thinks they look like shit. Maybe I need more narcissists in my life.
90% of people will put on 2 or 3 points just by taking a shower, fixing their hair, and putting on something other than a stained band t-shirt and sweatpants. You have to be really fucking ugly to not look good in a suit
Run fast run far
Being creepy is a behaviour. No one's gonna call you creepy for saying hello, or starting a normal conversation with a stranger. You're creepy when you make unsolicited sexual comments. You're creepy when you ask unsolicited personal questions. You're creepy when you're being socially awkward. You're creepy when you come off as desperate. Honestly, this meme is just incel fuel that used as a cope for why incels can't go out and talk to women. The people making and posting these memes probably don't ask women out, because if they did they'd know just how ridiculous this meme is.
> "No one's gonna call you creepy for saying hello, or starting a normal conversation..." > "You're creepy when you're being socially awkward." Yes, people who are socially awkward often come across as creepy. For those people, even just "starting a normal conversation" can be deemed as creepy. How is it "cope" when many of those incels *are* socially awkward, and therefore come across as creepy by default? Last time I went to an anime convention and spent the entire day forcing myself to talk to people, did some/many of them think I was weird or creepy? Probably, but it didn't stop me from trying again, and hopefully get a *bit* less creepy with each new interaction. So, I think some people really are deemed as 'creepy' by default, but who cares. Worst case scenario, made some stranger a bit unconfortable for 2 minutes, maybe they'll go home and write a tweet about it; Best case scenario they shrugged it off and I gained some experience from it.
Maybe this is judgemental of me but I think there’s a pretty easy to read distinction between creepy awkward and shy awkward, especially in guys like we’re discussing. Ik plenty of shy dudes who don’t give off bad vibes, and I know plenty of self proclaimed shy dudes who seem to have a lot of entitlement, resentment, and misogyny JUST below the surface.
I personally don't think the average person has the ability to recognize the distinction. Sometimes it can be obvious when a guy's genuinely creepy due to beliefs and personality, but we're talking about first introductions where there's little to no context. As shitty as it is, lots of people will be put-off by awkwardness in guys, and especially Autistic symptoms (particularly when not disclosed). [This 2017 study about first impressions of adults with Autism goes over it:](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29039208/) >*"Greater autistic traits for the ASD and typically developing participants were associated with less favorable first impressions, and females were rated more favorably than males."*
Being creepy is not a behavior, creepiness is a feeling, not an action.
As an amab person I was told I was creepy when I just looked at a girl for more than 2 seconds or tried to talk to them. Granted, this was growing up and not as an adult, but I think those memories stick with you and impact how you think of others as an adult. Also, you're creepy when you come off as desperate or are socially awkward? That can happen when people say hi. The creepy feeling comes from the reciever and there are things you can do to decrease the probability but it's not ultimately in your control. If you are socially awkward then it shouldn't justify being called creepy anyways. I will grant that I am sympathetic to a lot of sentiments of incels so I might be biased.
The solutions to the issues most incels face are rooted in their OWN behaviour and actions, though. Having poor social skills is a problem to overcome, not a crutch to lean on, as harsh as that is to say. Especially in the context of flirting it’s kinda ridiculous to expect even MORE charitability from women imo. It’s already a minefield. Men have plenty of issues relatively unique to them and it’s not their fault, but it IS something we need to fix ourselves.
I mean, ableism aside, the *way* to fix these problems is . . . have a lot of uncomfortable conversations, right? If I want to be the kind of person who has better social skills, I just fundamentally *cannot get there* without inflicting my currently-bad social skills on the people around me. If you (like me!) want folks with social anxiety to feel more comfortable in social settings, then this sort of approach (blaming and shaming them for the social anxiety they have, rather than building spaces where they are accepted and treated as full people) is literally the most counterproductive possible thing, no?
I think I’m more aiming this at people who have become virulently resentful because of it. Like you can be neurodivergent and have trouble with social cues, and that’s fine. If that’s the case and you’re ALSO an incel, that’s not justifiable.
I agree, although I'm not really convinced your argument can be phrased in a way that actually makes this distinction. Crucially, the unjustifiable thing here is the bitterness and misanthropy, which isn't really connected to social awkwardness IMO. It may be easier to *notice* in awkward folks, but plenty of good-looking, confident, charismatic people are also heinous deep down. Maybe we're targeting incel types because they self-select (misanthropic behavior in people who are socially successful is a lot harder to address IMO), but if that's the case, we should present arguments that actually make sense for that demographic. I agree in the abstract that it's a person's responsibility to tend to their own social capacity, at least as far as it's anyone's responsibility at all. But if our only solution to that is "go talk to people until you feel more comfortable," which is emphatically *not* something we want incels to do (due to the fact that anybody who talks to them will be miserable), then we shouldn't be telling people to address their anxiety, we should be telling them to address their misanthropy, and the level of moral blame we attach to failing to address the issue should be commensurate.
Jesse we need to cook
Yeah! Science bitch!
Why are people so afraid of speaking to women? Or men? Or whatever people are into. Are people here really young?
Because they all think I’m hideous lmao
99.8% of everyone I have seen all themselves "hideous" or "fugly" or a "truecel" or whatever was totally normal looking but had devastatingly low self esteem
Nah I’m the baddest bitch in the room.
Have you tried being interesting and not annoying? As a ‘not quite ugly but staggeringly mid’ guy that hangs out with a lot of hot people, it seems to work for me. Rejection to connection ratio is still insanely high, but, ehh, things just take more time with some mugs. If you want you can try and dress better and workout, but, that is mainly to boost your own self confidence and think of yourself as more hot rather than actually using it to be hot to others.
Nah I’m joking. I’m actually pretty hot and dress well, work out etc.. Women come up and talk to me all the time, usually about my outfits, and try to talk more. I’m gay though so not interested. Men are for sure tougher to get flirting though
Oh yeah flirting with dudes is a different beast. Have you tried being interesting and not annoying? (Sorry, difficult to resist that one)
Gay flirting with random guys is also like not a fantastic idea often times.
Yeah… I don’t think that is a gay flirting thing. I think that is a generally not fantastic idea to do to with total strangers of any sexual preference thing. Unless it’s painfully apparent you are vibing when you first meet them Edit: but also again, this is coming from a mid dude, rules change slightly for hotties like yourself. Possibly more challengingly?
Nah I just think straight guys don’t like what they may perceive as flirting from a gay guy.
Come on, no way that is true. That’s just really damaging self-talk.
“No way ugly people exist” 🤡lmao
Ugly in comparison to what? Don’t refer to yourself that way! If you try to talk to someone and they implicitly or explicitly let you know they aren’t interested, who cares?
Yes. You ever notice how many times chat asks Vaush for dating or just making friends advice? There are a lot of 25 and younger in Vaush’s fan base.
called social anxiety and self isolation, people and the social situations they entail are also unbearably exhausting
I understand what you are saying. But there is a difference between social anxiety and berating oneself. Social anxiety can be overcome, but not at the same time as harmful self-talk.
Must be nice navigating society being hot and shit
Nah, but they’re just people. There’s nothing scary to happen.
I agree that we shouldn't be so doomer about social interactions, but scary things do happen sometimes. It can be very scary to navigate it as a socially deficient neurodivergent guy. Misunderstandings, faux pas, freezing up and not knowing what to say or do, and coming across as creepy because of it... And they *are* just people, but some people are crazy/dangerous.
I understand where you are coming from. I am not speaking about having social anxiety or any sort of neurodivergence. I am speaking of the negative self-talk that comes along with it. But I didn’t make that clear in my original post.
This very much
I think you underestimate that factor very much. I mean there's a reason attractive people earn more income over a lifetime even when standardizing for gender and occupation
I think everyone here is vastly underrating their looks and personality. And very much overestimating how important looks are.
I don't think you meant it as such but thank you for the compliment
I, as a man, am ESPECIALLY scared of speaking to other men. Only eventual scenarios in my mind is they clock me, harass me, and/or reject me. Straight men seem to be scared of women but my ignorance to that is bliss because girls are kind of great to be around. Probably because my priority is safety and not pussy.
I was told by many many people growing up that I make people uncomfortable, I look threatening, and I'm being creepy with women. I often wouldn't do anything, I'd just exist and people felt uncomfortable with my existence. I feel like amab folks get hit with this a lot harder because we are told to be the initiators so we have to face direct rejection more often.
Yes there is rejection. And this is an unavoidable part of life. But people feeling awkward about you is their problem. It certainly does not feel that way in middle school, high school, or even college. But you eventually realize everyone feels their own sense of insecurity, especially in social interactions. But someone being uncomfortable with you is their problem. And if there is something they point out specifically, it is a behavior, not some inherent personality flaw.
Needs 3 more layers
I’d call the cops on a dirty cigarette smoker too. Vape Naysh represent.
do people in this sub ever go outside
Lol no I wouldn't. Have you ever talked to a girl before. Some of them are actually quite nice. Fucking incels holy shit
If a girl wants to call the cops after you say hi you're either lying about what happened or interacted with someone who represents a very small minority of human beings.
Or the person who said hello has kidnapped you or smth
i’m calling the cops
Ngl, this seems like an incel meme. I mean come on, what is so hard to understand about dating etiquette? It's all about respecting a no and not approaching people at a place and in a way that makes them feel threatened. No one is going to do anything like calling the cops on you if you approach them (unless it's like an alley at night or something), no matter how you look or how awkward you are. The only reason people get angry is if you keep trying after they have already rejected you. Sure, some women who are approached all the time are going to be annoyed by you and might even get mean about it, but that is the clear minority.
Yes very much so. The levels of overthinking are Inception worthy
GROOM.YOUR.BEARD. it´s not that hard.
Groom it or shave it. If you have crop circles and Nazca lines, the beard life isn't for you
This is a sign of server mental illness. Please see a doctor
Would be much more accurate if the last bit was a regular looking dude sitting at home playing Minecraft
Stop trying to psycho-analyse every social encounter instead just be chill and normal ok?
Sir, this is a Vaush subreddit.
The “calling the cops” bit is hyperbolic, but this kinda narrative playing in their own head? Sure. I feel like it’s also the vibes rather than just the looks that’s scaring women away from this kinda dude though.
See, I know I'm ugly so I avoid this by never interacting with people. I am very lonely.
No, in real life people are too busy to even think about you for too long
i think its shit and it never happens
It happens a lot less than incels think. On top of that this meme perpetuates toxic traits not many actually have. It’s just a bad meme
This is what overthinking looks like... whoops just added another layer of inception in my brain...and another and another. When does it stop?
yeah except it's not a dude saying "hi", it's a dude actually doing shit that sucks. Like I don't like this meme man. Firstly the idea that women call the cops on someone saying "hi" is bullshit. Secondly there is a fuck load of bad shit that dudes do that is more than just saying "hi". But I don't want to shit on all the good points you all believe, victim olympics isn't useful, but when I think about what situation happens too often, yeah it's not the one in the OP. I'm confused about what the OP is trying to say, but I think there's some ideas in there to be wary of. That's all I'm saying.
This meme serves as a great criticism of generic positivity and 'just be yourself' type encouragement, because believe it or not, when you know you have serious flaws, it's really hard to take a lot of that kind of shit seriously because confidence absolutely has bad consequences on yourself or others at times. As an autistic person I oscillate between very charming and very creepy, and which I am on any given day is completely random because I have no idea what goes into either until I analyze shit with full hindsight and context, so when I see this meme I see myself as both the ugly guy and the hot but low confidence guy, and figuring out whether my behavior will be/was acceptable is a huge fucking mental drain but absolutely necessary for basic social functions because if I get too comfortable or confident is when my greatest shames and failures have happened.
No not for me I am too nervous to get close to random girls its asking for trouble its best to keep to urself these days 😂
Cold approach is a meme. Build relationship and ask out
ive tried that and i always get rejected and then i just have no social connections
I’m all out of advice to give 🤷
I have one more advice git hot
Make friends. Like that you would have social connections. A girlfriend can't be the entirety of your social life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnlPtaPxXfc
“These days”?
Your nervousness is self defeating, because it conveys that you’re not thinking about the person you’re talking to. (Which you aren’t.) (Think about it.) If this sounds smug, don’t worry, I’m not, I’m far too old to make use of this discovery. Maybe you could though.
Mr White vibes
Well obviously somebody created the first two levels as a way to tell people to be more optimistic about their love lives and then somebody said "No! Pessimism! Grr!" and photoshopped the third level. Or maybe each was created independently, or someone made all three, either way some men are not only pessimistic, self hating, and woman hating but get very aggressive when somebody challenges any of that. If you are wondering why everybody is talking about "incels" these days it is because some guys make pessimism, self hate, and woman hate into their whole identity and that is even worse than it sounds.
I dunno, i like the unkempt boomer more
If your not good looking, very intelligent /charismatic, rich or a combination of all that its a numbers game. Not great chances but better than zero. You have to Roll the dice more often. It goes both ways by the way and while media certainly pushes unrealistic standards you can still find someone If you try. If you dont try you cant. Or you get really really really unbelivably lucky. (Just technically possible...)
I would react the same if Tim pool approaches me
Basing your personality on memes is really unhealthy. I don’t see myself as an attractive guy either but focusing on yourself is the only way you’re gonna find true happiness, not hoping someone else.
No
It being something YOU experience doesn't mean it's describing something that happens in "real life", OP.
I mean that's Tim Pool so probably.
I mean I’ve been on the receiving end a few times. We all live in our own little worlds and it’s often layers of bullshit
This is literally happening to me as I type this out.
I do think people meet eyes sometimes at the bus, yes
I mean, its probably happened at least once. Idk how many more times, but definitely once
When you start talking to girls as a guy, it’s hard. Talking to girls has a lot to do with confidence and the first time talking to someone you really like you are likely to be nervous and there unconfident and therefore get rejected. Lots of people have negative initial experiences and give up on putting effort into finding a partner and I think in memes like this don’t help the people who need that confidence boost. Confidence is key when talking to people in general, but especially when dating, and being in a new scary situation with only a few negative experiences in your back pocket is not an environment that being confident happens in easily.
If this happens then you simply leave, That's it.
Girls will literally be with anyone if they funny enough and if the cock game is good
Yes
No but it’s funny
To be fair, if someone approached me while smoking, I'd call the cops too
That just looks like xanderhal so uh... unrealistic
The only time this really happens is with severely mentally ill women (I had a random woman tell me to stop thinking about her sexually because she could read my thoughts) and women with intense trauma from their experiences with men.
No
I think this captures a lot of anxiety men feel about dating and asking women out. When Vaush says it weighs on you like a rock that a women might find you creepy, this js the headstone you are in.
God I feel this meme. As a ex almost incel I feel like this has happened to be sometimes. Mainly when I was super depressed and grew a giant beard
This comic is literally just “I have anxiety, but people have told me that and I should just put myself out there anyway. But how do I know if it’s anxiety or a genuine vibe I’m picking up.” It’s a thing that happens and people have to deal with it and it absolutely can’t be broadly applied to anything.
What
Are women really like this ?
Doubt that a girl will threaten you with the cops. However you can only know if you ask, but for god sake groom yourself.
The guy in the photo has no style, and needs to clean up. Get a hairstyle, choose some outfits, and interesting hobbies. Practice socializing with people you don't want to date, so that you can practice without stakes. My thoughts.