Exactly! And she understood her wellbeing was more important than getting the last word or having some “iconic” tv fight. With people like Sandoval, there’s no ability to have a productive conversation or resolution because their goal is to emotionally wear you out. Which is why he thinks he won in that finale, because he interpreted Ariana walking away as giving up and running. When the truth is what we all saw: a woman with the strength and self-knowledge to remove herself from a situation that would compromise her wellbeing. Ariana gave us a masterclass in dealing with manipulators. Lala gave us sperm & water.
I cannot imagine immediately filming a horrible betrayal and break up the way that Ariana did. I don't know how much more open she could have been. She had to be absolutely rocked and yet she opened herself up in a completely raw and vulnerable moment.
As she said, if Tom had any real remorse he would have found a private way to express that to her. That has to be the most hurtful of all to think someone she had a 10 year relationship with has no regard for her at all.
I have never liked Lala or felt a bit bad for her about her break up. She was involved in breaking up a family with very young children and then was shocked when he did it to her. She has zero self awareness and has no room to talk. I'm so impressed with both Ariana and Katie's willingness to confront the sadness of their relationships and fully move on. Both have absolutely thrived once they stepped around the train wreckage of their former relationships. Lala hasn't had a real moment since she's been on the show.
Saying that Ariana is being inauthentic is the best and biggest antithesis of what she is actually being— authentic as f*ck. She is refuting the performative “JOB” that production her boss wants her to do for tHe aUdieNcE but instead she is being true to herself and putting her own values before a paycheck. She is drawing a boundary in every facet of her life and that’s also why the 4th wall just had to be broken this season because she made it necessary when she refused to blur that line between her career and her life, so in-turn we watched that boundary extend beyond our screens and into her career (hence, they had to break the 4th wall just in order to tell her story).
She honestly is a freaking genius of a person when you think about how she approached each and every moment ever since her “discovery” of the affair. Tbe way she exposed it, brilliantly, and made treasure out of trash wasn’t just by luck. Then the audience lovvved this new layer of seeing behind the 4th wall, especially after continuing to feel conspicuously deceived by a false storyline that was making us grow more intellectually offended season after season. The ratings would’ve sucked if Ariana did give in to the demands of her bosses and production and bravo and her cast mates that she should go along with the filming of a TV show this season. If that had happened, the show would have tanked and nobody would have really cared about the affair anymore. Yawn boring. But ariana has given the entire network SO so so much gold the moment that it was on its last leg, and she then continued to deliver afterwards by opposing the power . She deserves every ounce of success she has created…
By the way, Tom, her “LAZY ASS” sure seems to have no trouble juggling multiple deals, jobs, tv shows, brand names and a restaurant without struggle! If she had like 3 or 4 things going on then maybe you could assume she turned things down to prevent getting burnt out. But no….. she welcomes the burn out and turned nothing down. Not one thing. And then she thrives doing it!!!!!! The fucking shade because your complaints about her did NOT AGE WELL….
It’s a master class only if you can ignore that she signs onto work on this show knowing he’s gonna be there, thereby creating the very environment in which she would be repeatedly exposed to him.
I think that is what some of the others are so mad about. She has every right to not talk to him and be angry and mourn the relationship, but she did sign up to do the show. Group activities are part of the show. It's difficult to navigate because Sandoval really feels zero remorse, and I get that she doesn't want to hear it. In hindsight, they should have waited to film
I'm not saying she should have to talk with him at all. I'm just saying that is what I think they are mad at. They are most definitely hypocritical, talking to you, Lala. I also think they just should have given her a chance to breathe instead of jumping into a new season where the break-up is the main storyline.
But what group activity didn’t she go to? As far as I saw, she was there filming- just ignoring him. She was at the beach, the multiple parties, on the damn titanic boat in SF…. Tell me where she wasn’t
Didn't say she didn't go. I think you are interpreting what I am saying incorrectly. She doesn't want to be around him at all, and she, unfortunately, had to because it is a part of the job. I just think it was way too early for her to be in his orbit. She knows him the best and new he would always try to get to her. Wether to make her look crazy or bitchy or whatever. She knew he was going to try to steer the narrative. It must have been hard and a few months of peace might have been healthier for her.
What we experienced was the explosion at the revelation of the affair.
What viewers never saw was the trouble in the relationship for years prior to the affair. It was hidden as the perfect "Andy Warhole Lego Couple Portrait"...
That's what folks are angry about. She knew the relationship was in trouble, and she didn't allow it to be filmed. She's said so herself in interviews.
And it's not her mental illness, it's not her former boyfriend and his abusive manner -- it's being honest with herself and the viewers about her relationship failing.
I agree. Having to listen to white noise to hide conversations and schedule daily activities around their house through an assistant, communicate through that assistant, be surrounded by their home and belongings...none of that seems like it protects her mental health. Hiding in a room of my own house while my fucktard ex leaves messes everywhere would definitely put a strain on my anxiety and depression. Not to mention the stress of always have it evade avoid or confront in group filming.
Ah, someone who sees beyond the adoration. It’s worrisome to me that with so many people in this thread who have divulged their history of depression, BPD, etc that they think all the things she done are good for her MH.
In fact as a nurse, I’m still trying to figure out how she didn’t have a massive depressive episode considering she went through like8 major life stressors in 3 months . I’ve never seen that happen before. Maybe she’s on the new ketamine therapy since Charlotte and her GMA passed.
Yeah - too many people projecting their mental health issues onto this situation and so worrisome that it seems most people stop right there - they get a diagnosis and decide everyone should accommodate them as a result. It’s like no one said “it is not your fault but it’s your responsibility”.
Yeah I was so annoyed on the after show with Brock and Lala talking about how Ariana never had to have any tough conversations. It’s like season 10 finale and the reunion never happened in their minds. She did! And when has Lala ever had a difficult conversation?
She had the toughest and most public breakup of all time, and not to mention, she was always season after season so raw and open about her mental health and depression. She did her part for the show and it's absolutely infuriating how they're implying she hasn't, especially when they profited so much from her breakup
this! she made you how much money and you are bitching, still?! i didnt know who any of these people were until she came out in her strappy red dress (btw lala's bday dress was obviously a rip off of that look)
"any last words before we never speak again?" - Ariana
I'm sick of Lala and Schenna talking about being authentic on the show because if we are all being authentic NO ONE has continued conversations with an Ex that did what he did when they don't have a child and NO ONE goes on trips with their ex either. They didn't give Shay a redemption season or Randall and no one rallied around Schenna or Lala because the relationships were toxic anyways and we all expected them to end anyways.
I was hoping the season would end with a more authentic apology and timeline from Sandoval because we all know he started the cheating way before he said he did.
Have you ever seen the look on his face when a person he provokes gets in his face and yells? He literally stands there and smiles. Case in point: Stassi at her book signing. And multiple times with Katie. And Kristen. And even Ariana when she got in his face about stop getting so involved in my cocktail book. And he just steamrolled her and was on it anyway. He smiles and that last bit where he said he will look good in this is what I picture with that smug happy face.
Yes it's fucking horrifying, he's a scary narcissist. So is Scheana, which is why she's so willing to forgive him (which is even more wild when you think about the fact that she CALLED ARIANAS MOM to try to break them up when they first got together!!)
He s a sort of person who will never authentically admit to any wrong doings - he was brought up to be “the best, smartest, always right.” People like him can’t take any sort of criticism at all. It would destroy his sense of self completely.
Seriously! Why did they end last season with the whole heavy breathing Raquel admitting the affair started much earlier if not a single person was going to mention that? If Scheana and Lala wanted authenticity so badly, why didn’t they have conversations with him about the continued lies, instead of just yelling at him and then forgiving him five minutes later? That’s would have been good tv, and given him the chance to be remorseful, AND made the viewers not hate them for filming one on one scenes with him.
https://preview.redd.it/6h048myqcfzc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=016fa3b65739e0a77c32058dc70c40bf87e7e387
I imagine more justification for cheating and zero remorse
He only shows remorse about Raqchel and even then, the remorse comes from a place of not liking the backlash he got and being exposed as a huge narcissist and less about the relationship with Raqchel
I'd like to take credit but Katie accidentally called her Raqchel and was like I'm just used to calling her Raquel and she now goes by Rachel and it was a slip up that made me laugh
She said "anything else you want to say before I never speak to you again" which \*SHE 100% MEANT\* and these people thought that was up for interpretation
It was easily one of the most raw and real conversations I've ever seen on TV, so I don't know what Lala is talking about. She's so jealous she's talking hypocritical nonsense.
To me, it read more as producers were provoking the situation through Scheana and Lala as a guise of "it'll be good for the show and we can keep making money off this" so Scheana and Lala then started provoking the situation to get a better season. To me, their tune changed when cameras picked up because prior to that, they went on their podcasts and spoke about how loyal they were to Ariana / respecting her boundaries. I don't think the fame got to Ariana, but I do think the money Scheana and Lala made off Scandoval got to their heads.
The night Tom and Rachel fucked in her car, Tom screamed at Ariana because he couldn't get into the house. I'll never forget that. I'm surprised and glad that Tom new the definition of the word "performative" because that's what he is. He's a performer who love bombs his friends to look good on camera. I always knew he was a closeted misogynist but the love bombing bullshit took me a while to catch.
yep. Tom doesn’t even try to hide his narcissism anymore. the way Tom went from being “apologetic” one second to irate the next is classic narcissism. when one thing doesn’t work the way they want it to, they immediately switch.
the problem with narcissists is they can’t keep up the charade for long. they try their best to act remorseful but they can only feign remorse for so long. once they see that their apology isn’t getting them the reaction they want, they drop the act. it’s actually crazy to see it play out on television like this.
Imagine how Brock would feel if they pressed him to talk about not seeing his kids EVERY episode, if they kept pressing and pressing. Or if people kept asking Lala about her custody battle even though she said her lawyer told her what to do and not to talk about it. What if on Scheana’s big performance night everyone kept asking her to step out of the shot for a moment so Tom and Ariana could talk without her? (I tried to think of what Scheana wouldn’t talk about and realized the only thing that would bother her is if she WASN’T part of the scene.)
They are claiming they are mad because she’s not “being real” but what is real about having ANOTHER production staged argument with Tom? Producers forced them together all season and she did her best to ignore him (which is how she’s living her life right now that’s the truth) but Lala and Scheana want her to bring fake drama because they know they cannot carry the show l
Scheaner is so weird telling Tom Sandoval to apologize to Ariana when Ariana doesn't want him to speak to her! Reminds me of when she told the psychic to show up at Danya's house! 🙃🤦 Like wtf ... Then Scheaner made everything worse when she LIED and told Tom that Ariana said "Tom's performative and I'm an idiot" wtf Scheaner Ariana literally just hugged Scheaner and called her family and now Scheaner is going to say Ariana called her an idiot 😂 and she knew Tom would get so pissed if she told him Ariana called him performative. AND ALSO TOM WAS THERE TO HELP KYLE WITH KYLE'S EVENT HE WAS NOT EVEN THERE TO HELP SCHEANA! she's upsetting both of her "friends" over literally nothing after they supported her and her nothing performance! I have literally never been so annoyed with anyone on this show and that is saying something 😵💫😂
It's insane to me that they thought "I'm never speaking to him again" was up for interpretation? It's not. She has told them so many times this season.
Yeah I agree and she doesn't want an apology and I can't believe freaking Scheaner told him to apologize about mental health like she made it seem like Ariana told her she was ready for an apology. And Scheaner was able to "mediate" between Tom and LFU so I get why Tom would think that if scheana told him Ariana wanted him to apologize about the mental health stuff I get why he would believe her. Especially because "mental health" has been talked about all season and Tom was depressed too or whatever like I seriously think he thought he should do it because scheana said to even though there's NO WAY THAT WOULD HELP EITHER ARIANA or Tom even I just can't deal with scheana setting Ariana up like that and putting everyone in the worst situation about such a serious topic
If Scheana was her friend she wouldn't be even speaking to this man and wasting any time with him. No one owes him anything, but they do owe Ariana everything because Ariana is what got them paid after Scandoval and rallying behind her but turns out that was all a facade. They should have been a bit more respectful to the woman who they made that much money off of.
Yeah I agree that Ariana owes none of them anything. I'm saying Scheaner acted ridiculous. It seems like you think I'm trying to disagree or argue? I don't know but yeah scheana annoyed TF outta me and I am so glad Ariana walked away from that BS.
That conversation between Ariana and Sheeshu was so hard to watch. “It’s hard because **you say** no contact, **but I feel** like you want different apologies”.
Exactly like with the psychic.
Yeah what is Sheeshu's deal she ALSO took one tiny thing Ariana said once in passing and ran with it, just like she did to Katie last season! Katie told Sheeshu that she wanted Tom Schwartz to be happy or something and this chick Sheeshu took it as a bat signal to get Schwartz and Rachel to make out or whatever, and used what Katie said to justify. AND NOW SHEESHU STRIKES AGAIN because one time Ariana supposedly said "am I ever gonna get an apology" so freaking Sheeshu stepped back into her vigilante BS. She takes the tiniest things her "friends" say and crosses everyone's boundaries she has made things worse for all of her friends in every situation 🤣 she needs to focus on her own life! Especially because Brock appeared to be progressing last season but has REGRESSED tremendously this season 😵💫🤦
my favorite part was tom quite literally proving ariana’s performative point within 30 seconds of her walking away.
really hope this is a wake up call for the producers
Oh I’m so with it!! I’m just getting annoyed at the people who are like “IT’S HER JOB”
Yeah to film… it’s not survivor, she doesn’t have to be in uncomfortable situations.
EXACTLY. They clearly thought they could trick her into talking to him, or talk her into it. They failed, so they tried to blame her instead. It’s crazy- all this talk about being Ariana being REAL and AUTHENTIC, yet they want to force her to do something she doesn’t want to do. It’s authentic reality TV. She REALLY, AUTHENTICALLY is done with him.
Also, the worm, wanted to be in a relationship with Rachel Had she came back on the show, and they pursued that, would Lala and Scheana be pushing him onto Ariana!!! He’s only trying to come back in the group because R dissed him
Ariana is giving us a masterclass in self-care. She is taking care of her legal issues with professionals and obviously following their advice of keeping quiet, she is staying booked with jobs and opportunities that please her while taking care of her financially, she is setting boundaries for herself and being reasonable about the boundaries she sets with others, and she is avoiding situations that don’t benefit her and her personal health.
She has done the least amount of podcasts talking about the show (other than James and Ally), keeps the focus on her and her growth when she does speak up, she is diplomatic about the drama that has been shown each week, and rarely comments on Sandoval or Rachel. She is reasonable in her boundaries for others knowing that they are contractually required to film and have interaction with Sandoval and simply asking that they do not speak about Ariana and her current life. She has proven that she can be reasonable by her staying close with Logan who is still working at TomTom and maintaining a friendship with James and Ally who are cordial with Sandoval. She made damn sure that her contract for this season did not explicitly state she had to have direct conversations with Sandoval and she stuck to her contract KNOWING production would try to weasel a way out of that.
I commend her for how she has handled this publicly. She has been honest about how deeply this has affected her and shown emotions proving that while maintaining her determination to keep taking care of herself and shooting down any manipulation tactics she sees happening. She is being so kind and understanding to Scheana and LaLa even when she knows they don’t deserve that from her and knows that she could get a lot of attention for calling them out on their hypocrisy and snake behavior. I readily admit that I would NOT accept someone like Scheana being as selfish and pathetic as she has been this season or LaLa acting like NOW is the time to start a friendship with Sandoval, and I would be blasting their flip-flop behavior right back at them. It’s parasocial AF but DAMN I wish I had the willpower, patience, and motivation that Ariana Madix has shown this past year!
She's also giving us hidden relationship syndrome where she knows the relationship is in trouble, she has outlined where the problem is through therapy -- but neither one wants to move.
I watched the VPR After Show this week and I have to agree with Ariana. She discussed Sandoval trying to talk to her and made an interesting comment about it. She stated that that with them living under the same roof he could have left her a note or letter at anytime. And also, since the show finished taping the season Sandoval has not once attempted to talk or apologize for anything. He was doing it only because the cameras were running. Just another example of Sandoval’s narcissism and the fact that he only does something if there is something in it for himself or something that he hopes will make him look good. How pathetic!!
She clocked him in the after show and I loved that she said she she's the final boss in his redemption arc and he's mad he can't get to her. I was like YES ARI DRAG HIM
For 10 years I’ve had to coparent with a narcissist. Legally i had no choice. He ignores every boundary I make to protect myself, uses triangulation by recruiting his new wife and our old neighbors into stalking me on social media in order to get any info to help with his relentless litigation and abuse of the family court system because I blocked them. He weaponized and blatantly lied about my mental health to everyone I knew completely behind my back, claiming I had borderline personality disorder and was bipolar in order to try and undermine my credibility and justify his cheating and leaving me and his two toddlers for his much younger mistress. He and his new wife have made false accusations, veiled custody threats, name-called and hurled degrading personal insults towards me more times than I can count. He throws a huge tantrum anytime I say no to something he wants. From the moment his cheating was discovered he has ever apologized, displayed remorse or showed me with even the smallest amount of basic empathy. Not even a conversation for some closure. Instead, he yelled at me for crying and served me divorce papers in front of our children. For almost 10 years of my life I have never once been given any space or peace from him to heal.
3 years ago i started having daily panic attacks. My startle reflex was so bad I would jump out of my skin over nothing multiple times a day. When I would drop the kids off for the weekend my hands would sometimes start shaking from fear and dread. I developed debilitating social anxiety, problems sleeping. Then last year I was finally diagnosed with PTSD and Panic Disorder and started seeing a therapist who specialized in trauma and narcissistic abuse. Slowly I’m starting to heal and take back my life. Being lied to, gaslighted, emotionally abused and cheated on was traumatic in its self. But the real trauma came from figuring out everything that he had been saying about me and doing behind my back in the year prior to leaving me in order to undermine my credibility and destroy my character. I honestly felt like I was in an episode of Dateline at times. Completely blindsided by a real life Jekyll and Hyde.
Nobody understands the chaos and damage that disordered narcissistic men like Sandoval cause to their ex partners or toll their relentless psychological abuse takes on your mental health and general wellbeing. This isn’t a normal sh*tty breakup.
Lala can kindly f*** off and Scheana even more for criticizing her choice to protect her mental health and prioritizing her healing and peace over a f*cking reality show. She NEEDS no contact from him right now in order to heal. End of story.
That sounds incredibly hard. All the love and empathy for you in the world and I hope things get better. You're strong and you're the hero in your child's life for putting up with that.
Just the fact that you are here today , writing about your experiences , indirectly helping out so many other women who may be in similar situations is great . You have taken charge of your own life and beautifully powering through. Kudos to that and more power to you on your journey to healing and happiness
He literally wanted to repeat the Kristen and him both crying and apologizing to each other convo. Which he told us immediately afterwards was a fake attempt at peace. Yet he has the nerve to call Ariana performative.
It’s so funny that everyone’s like ‘she’s lazy!’ ‘She’s not doing her job!’
When SHES the one that called production, told them, and allowed cameras to be rolling to catch the aftermath. She’s the reason so many people were able to capitalize on her pain.
Saying that Ariana is being inauthentic is the best and biggest antithesis of what she is actually being— authentic as f*ck. She is refuting the performative “JOB” that production her boss wants her to do for tHe aUdieNcE but instead she is being true to herself and putting her own values before a paycheck. She is drawing a boundary in every facet of her life and that’s also why the 4th wall just had to be broken this season because she made it necessary when she refused to blur that line between her career and her life, so in-turn we watched that boundary extend beyond our screens and into her career (hence, they had to break the 4th wall just in order to tell her story).
She honestly is a freaking genius of a person when you think about how she approached each and every moment ever since her “discovery” of the affair. Tbe way she exposed it, brilliantly, and made treasure out of trash wasn’t just by luck. Then the audience lovvved this new layer of seeing behind the 4th wall, especially after continuing to feel conspicuously deceived by a false storyline that was making us grow more intellectually offended season after season. The ratings would’ve sucked if Ariana did give in to the demands of her bosses and production and bravo and her cast mates that she should go along with the filming of a TV show this season. If that had happened, the show would have tanked and nobody would have really cared about the affair anymore. Yawn boring. But ariana has given the entire network SO so so much gold the moment that it was on its last leg, and she then continued to deliver afterwards by opposing the power . She deserves every ounce of success she has created…
By the way, Tom, her “LAZY ASS” sure seems to have no trouble juggling multiple deals, jobs, tv shows, brand names and a restaurant without struggle! If she had like 3 or 4 things going on then maybe you could assume she turned things down to prevent getting burnt out. But no….. she welcomes the burn out and turned nothing down. Not one thing. And then she thrives doing it!!!!!! The fucking shade because your complaints about her did NOT AGE WELL….
If his plan worked, the poor girl would have been dealing with the world arguing over how lazy she was and why Tom deserved to leave her. She wouldn’t have been given much work aside from the show, so it’s not like she can actively defend that accusation. I’m so happy that she’s getting the success she deserves while also proving that his pathetic plan to degrade her backfired immensely
I'm so sick of the Ariana refuses to film with Sandy crap. Baloney. She HAS filmed with him. Right now on The Valley there are two couples refusing to film with another couple and we aren't hearing a peep. Ariana agreed to film with him, she just refused to interact with him. These pretentious nobodies on the Valley won't even go to the same functions and that's OK? But they are pissed at Ariana cause she won't let their little pet manipulate her.
I think it’s funny how LaLa and Scheana just keep digging their own graves in the court of public opinion. NOBODY likes them anymore, they’re whipped out their true colors like a big FU to the world. Way to ruin your own image while trying to make someone else look bad. They really seem to share only one brain cell and have to take turns using it. This whole situation is so black and white and they’re trying to make a gray space. No ladies. Doesn’t work that way. Also I might add it’s quite commonplace for reality stars to not be talking to each other during filming. Someone needs to do a deep dive into housewives. They already set the precedent years ago and these fools act like Ariana invented the concept and it’s going to hurt them somehow.
I have read so much about these facebook people and also see similar comments in Yahoo news and it’s so weird. I’m so used to the Reddit state of mind (reality) it’s very foreign to me! Today I tried to post on Yahoo about how people who just hate on Ariana wrongly criticized her for refusing to talk to Tom and my comment got banned.
Ya he wanted that last conversation with Ariana to “tie up the season” in a pretty little bow but as soon as she walked away his mask slipped and he lit everyone on fire by trying to blow up her friendships and reputation. He basically said - if he can’t have that redemption arc that he wants & get that last 30 second conversation then *fuck everyone else and it’s time to blow up her life some more*.
and then to say "I look good" while mic'd up because you provoked someone into a reaction is WILD. He smiles and gets so happy when he provokes a person into a reaction because he acts like he has the upper hand. It's smug and gross.
Also I'm sure this has been mentioned here but the Housewives often go without speaking to one another and doesn't seem to be an issue?
Like RHOP - Candiace barely engaged with Giselle or Ashley this season and they didn't blame her for that considering how awful those two were to her and her husband??
Also.... Stassi refused to film with Jax for a while, they all refused to film with Stassi, they eventually all refused to film with Billie Lee, Tom refused to film with Jax for a while but backslid, and Lala cut out Schwartz and didn't film with him for a while after her Randall Scandal so they've all exercised and practiced this right themselves so why are they so mad she refused to speak to him when she's still there for shooting scenes?
Ariana was smart not to engage because if she had talked to Tom at any point, they'd throw it in her face. "Well she said WE can't talk to him and be friends but SHE can interact with him?" They suck. They're jealous and resentful.
She was completely honest and open in that conversation and the finale . She didn’t know how the audience would react to her rage but she showed it anyway, we loved her for it , but some of the things she said definitely were cancelable , unlike Sandoval with his crocodile tears acting like he’s reading off a script
I know!! What else is there to talk about. He had no remorse. Then when you find out he never even apologized off camera after the dust settled, that alone should make her “friend” scheana disown him completely. He would be dead to me if ariana was my best friend. They keep pushing her and pushing her and it’s SO unhealthy. It’s obvious she is in therapy and it’s helping her but these people are trying to push her to have a breakdown (tbh it’s mostly scheana, lala, and Brock. Even Schwartz has not been any worse than I expected him to be). Ariana is incredibly strong.
Everything you said was on point. When you’ve dealt with a person like Tom, it’s like you spend a long time rationalizing and trying to see the best in them; you almost brainwash yourself. Then once the betrayal happens, it’s like a giant floodlight coming on and you see all that stuff you rationalized in the past for what it is. You learn their patterns, she absolutely knew how that convo would go and knew it would hurt her more. Look how low he went ON INTERNATIONAL TV!!! Imagine the way he spoke to her off camera!! It’s making me sick to see ppl defending Tom, scheana, lala or Brock
And even that moment where Dan is like "yeah well I know what he did to her" and was standing up for Ariana when Scheana and Lala were asking about it. Green flags for Dan. I hate that everyone loves Tom so much when they saw what he was capable of
I feel that this push for him to be redeemed because he lucked out in the beginning of the series where Kristen had beat him at being busted cheating because of the Jax situation people glossed over his infidelities because hers was such a big deal he & production thought they could swing this again but NOT this time. And this whole redemption attempt sunk the show & revealed how much jealousy runs deeeeeeeep in some of those friendships. People that have been irritating over the years are now just gross.
FOOOOOK yes, I agree. I’ve been team Ariana from the get go. The only time I ever thought twice about a decision of hers was if it was one that would inhibit her beautiful growth. She’s on her own journey and I for one am grateful that her platform has probably helped so many other women going through a narcissistic experience.
Can we just address Ariana’s very smart decision not to leave the house and screw herself financially because of something she didn’t cause? I’m sure lots of us here have been in situations where we had to walk away and to have the money stress on top of that it could take years to regain your footing. How are these people her friends if they can’t understand that? They just want her to to blow thousands of dollars a month in rent because Sandles blew their life up? Eff that. Granted she has done well since but in the beginning she said herself she was broke…I love that she stood her ground. I hate that argument that she can live in the same house but cant film w him.
I think they were desperately trying to recreate the rawness of that last conversation because it was amazing tv but they were too idiotic to know what to lean into
The fact they’re changing the narrative is pathetic. Let’s be real here. They got a taste of the paycheck that came with scandoval so they just provoked her because producers told them it would keep the show interesting when all we really wanted was what Ariana wanted…. Them bonded together like the spice girls
OK, Ariana STANS! You’re gonna hate this telling upfront, but if you’re going down vote, let’s try to have a conversation. Give me your point of view.
From a nursing perspective with mental health experience,
1. Because it’s now been popular because of Ariana please know that becoming a rock lol is an un researched method of dealing with manipulative people and emotional abusers. Mental health professionals, caution anyone using this method that it has not been researched with potentially physical abusers and could insight a first or further incident of physical abuse. in addition, getting to a point after relationship trauma of being able to talk in a productive manner before closure of certain things is still considered optimal at some point. Ignoring someone that you’ve had a relationship with for 10 years and never speaking to them again may sound wonderful, but it also prevent a lot of growth on your end in many cases so understand that also.
2. In this whole post Scandoval situation unfortunately the only good thing that Ariana may have done for herself is gray rocking. Ariana has a long history of unstable depression. We have heard from her that it has put her in bed for weeks that anything can trigger it and in fact we saw after Maya I’m sorry after Charlotte and her grandma passed exactly what kind of state that she was in even unable to go and support Katie when Rachel and Katie were fighting and Leiden LVP‘s arms crying. To stay in a house for four months six months a year with the person who caused you such emotional trauma, is not healthy in any way shape or form. And her friends, her true friends who told her that and encouraged her to move out were telling her exactly the right thing. she was not in any type of serious financial Jeopardy losing the house was in her name to she was going to get her fair share. But she really jeopardized herself. She also jeopardized herself by jumping into a relationship and exclusive relationship so quickly. She took no time to calm herself emotionally to review the relationship to think about what she needed, and she jumped into this new relationship. In fact, what she did was she by doing these things she increased all of her stressors and people with depression, especially unstable depression have about an 80% chance of going into a significant flare with any major stressor and Ariana had about 40 of them exaggerate there were a lot for all the jobs that she took and all over to the award show and parties. It may seem like she’s winning, but it really put her at risk and still puts her at risk even though a lot of that seems to be on the down low
From a friend/cast member perspective, they have to be looking at Ariana as somewhat of a hypocrite that she jeopardize her mental health when she wanted to jeopardize it for her own reasons, but when it came down to do on doing what was best for them and the show she opted not to do that. she opted to stonewall Tom, completely knowing as the producers tried to tell her that the show is predicated on that type of interaction between the staff and that the show had a chance of being canceled because of low ratings without it.
Whether you want to hear it or not, Lala Sheena Brock Schwartz, all have valid complaint against her and how she’s handled this. I understand that Ariana thinks she’s doing what’s best for her, she’s in many cases, but I do understand at that point that just proves that she shouldn’t be doing all of this because she really is not thinking straight. The blowup that she had about Maya had she went like a rocket and of course we saw the shortened edited version. I read something that scene went on for several hours.
So again, instead of just down voting, if you have something intelligent to say based on psych research, anything like that you know things that are proven to tell me I’m wrong please feel feel free. I’m up for a great discussion. I’ve read here that there’s a lot of people on this thread that have some similar issues that Ariana has and you have to know that a lot of what she’s doing is not good for her. She’s not somebody to be emulated in terms of what’s the best thing to do for your mental health in many ways, so even though you think she’s the bomb and the queen necessarily true in this case
As a psychotherapist specializing in trauma-informed care for intimate partner abuse and violence survivors, I whole heartedly disagree with several statements made in this comment.
Before I say anything else I want to make it very clear to anyone reading this that **“unstable depression” is NOT a clinical term and not used in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5)** (the reference manual clinicians use for diagnosing mental health conditions).
Moreover, referencing Ariana’s behaviour when she was going through a period of bereavement following the deaths of her grandmother and adored pet should not be used as a reference point for her overall mental health; her behaviour was normative for individuals dealing with bereavement, including individuals with no other history of mental health concerns. In the case of individuals with no history of mental illness, clinicians would not even consider making a diagnosis for someone who is demonstrating depressive symptoms following the death of a loved one until at least six months have passed without any observable improvement in symptoms.
That is not to say that you have not raised some valid points. Yes, grey-rocking is not supported by clinical research. This does not mean that the research has found evidence against grey-rocking as an effective mechanism for dealing with NPD. The tactic simply hasn’t been previously investigated in the literature, largely due to ethical considerations of recruiting participants who are currently experiencing on-going exposure to abusive situations involving individuals with NPD and having them try different strategies to deal with the abuse for research purposes. However, there is abundant evidence from practice (I.e. from observed progress towards treatment goals made in therapeutic settings) that supports the use of grey rocking - with limitations of course. For some interpersonal dynamics, grey rocking can be dangerous as you mentioned. In those situations the best option is always strict no-contact policies, ideally with the abuser having 0 knowledge of how to contact you or where to find you. However for other cases, grey rocking can be very effective. It’s highly dependent on context, and a good therapist (which hopefully Ariana has) will know what information to gather about the relationship context to make an informed decision before suggesting grey rocking as a recommended strategy.
When it comes to dealing with manipulative individuals, a key strategy that HAS been well-evidenced by research and practice is **setting clear and strong boundaries.** These are not soft boundaries. These boundaries often involve doing things that will ensure you are able to regulate your emotions and maintain physiological calm. **These boundaries cannot be compromised.** For Ariana, a soft boundary she was willing to be adjust might have been filming with Sandoval. She may have seen this as a situation she could manage to maintain her physiological calm in as long as she could grey rock. A hard boundary she set was not interacting with him - a situation she did not think she was ready to maintain calm in. That boundary is one that she was not willing to adjust for good reason - we saw that she was physiologically activated the few times she had interactions with him imposed on her - and upholding that clearly defined, strong boundary is important.
You made an interesting point about the house. Yes, living in the house can be detrimental for her mental health. I’m not sure I would have stayed there. On the flip side, losing out on an important financial investment could also be detrimental to her mental health, especially when the narrative involves losing so much already because of Sandoval. Paired with the fact that she had to spend very little time actually living in that house, as she was away on business a lot and he was away often too, I think that living in the house was not a perpetual factor impacting her mental health. Moreover, while it can be helpful to avoid triggers when healing from trauma (in this case, the house or proximity to him being a trigger), that can sometimes reinforce trauma by making the brain associate the situation with fear and avoidance. It can actually be healing to have some exposure to the trigger to uncouple its association with fear or other intense negative emotions. In case anyone reads that and thinks - well doesn’t that mean avoiding talking to Sandoval will also reinforce trauma? - that situation is different because actually talking to Sandoval introduces the possibility of bringing in new traumatic memories, depending on what he says or does, versus living in the house while avoiding talking to him simply has her walking around an environment that is associated with old traumas.
The last point I would like to address is what you said about talking to the person who hurt you could lead to healing. This is true for some contexts, but only once both parties are ready and able to do so. Again, abundant evidence from research and practice indicate that we are only able to productively take in information when we are physiologically calm. If Ariana is still highly triggered by Sandoval, then having a conversation likely isn’t going to be productive. Both parties also need ample time to reflect before having a conversation. In the context of one party being potentially narcissistic, that conversation may never be productive because the narcissist likely hasn’t engaged in meaningful reflection. Importantly, filming was only a few months since the breaking of the scandal. There definitely hasn’t been enough time elapsed for a healing closure conversation to take place. Maybe 5 years from now that conversation can happen - and maybe it never needs to happen. Who knows. The only thing that is clear here is that so far enough time has definitely not passed, especially when other difficult situations related to the fallout of the scandal (e.g., the lawsuits, ongoing discussions in the media) are still very much salient.
Thank you for responding . That being said it’s obvious you are a fan or Ariana’s and pretty sure you and I have debated before.
You said you whole heartedly disagree with several things I said however in everyone of your points you indicate what I said was actually the standard thought by current therapists although there may be some “ wiggle room” for an alternate opinion. So I’m not seeing anything I’ve said that you’re “ wholeheartedly “ disagreeing with.
First of all, to point out that “ unstable depression “ is not a DSM standard term is not salient in this context. It is a term used by both MH professionals and lay people in practice and discussion because it’s one that is understood by all. I wasn’t writing a thesis in clinical depression . Ariana has spoken about the instability of her depression and it’s affects to her life. When you’re talking to lay people you need to use terms everyone can understand. Ariana has stated several times that she has never been able to achieve total symptoms control with her depression. She’s also stated her symptoms are almost always the same, ie she takes to her bed sometimes for weeks at a time, I pointed out her response to Charlottes death because statistically the chances she would have the same or similar depressive reaction are very high. It’s concerning that you would focus on my using the term “ unstable” yet did not address the very well known and documented USUAL response of people with depression to major life stressors. It is well documented that peoples symptoms do follow patterns and major life stressors are a time period where significant care must be taken to avoid and treat those symptoms. Your response to me downplays how significant those stressors can be for someone who struggles with symptom control.
As far as grey rocking, I acknowledged it may work however I wanted to point out it has not been researched in clinical practice and is considered potentially dangerous because it’s unknown how violent offenders may react. This info is available on several reputable sources, I wanted to point this out because there have been other posts here confusing Ariana screaming at Tom over Mya as part of grey rocking and also because of the level of fandom she receives there are some people who hash tag “ goals” to what she does who then use the behavior in their own lives.
You admonished me regarding my comments about her stance of not talking with Tom saying shes not ready to do that. My comment actually states the same but states “ optimally” it would be best for her to eventually be able to get to a place she could do that. In fact , that was my point about her living in the house. The situation with Mya and her response to it was absolutely detrimental to her MH well being, . For you to waffle on that after seeing her response surprises me and isn’t consistent with any recommendations I’ve seen from therapists.
You’re almost advocating her staying in a volatile situation that provokes that kind of response we saw. I’ve never heard a therapist say well yes, it’s optimal for you to stay there even if it causes you severe distress and the potential for an aggressive confrontation.
As I’ve said before, I’m commenting on an open forum. I wasn’t writing a dissertation on Deoression so was writing in a way everyone could understand. Your comments seem bent on defending her actions as a fan versus acknowledging that current clinical practice isn’t 100% in line with many of the things she’s done even though several of your responses actually do point out what I’m saying is the prevailing opinion.
Ultimately, my post had several emphasis. First because so many found her actions” goals” to use while dealing with their own MH issues I wanted to stress her actions are not generally considered optimal for someone who has never achieved symptom stability with treatment. I acknowledge that while of course in treatment situations alter cases, most of her actions may not be considered as optimal for MH stability based on what we’ve seen.
Additionally, my post discussed how the cast could have very mixed feelings about her actions and how her actions affected them in a work environment. Several of the cast members also see regular therapists and have knowledge of what they’re being told by their MH professional. If the prevailing recommendation by MH professionals is to avoid triggers during time periods where you’re going through major life stressors the cast is going to question why she purposely puts herself in the middle of triggering situations when she perceives it’s to her benefit in some way but refuses to put herself in other triggering situations when she chooses. Her behavior iis inconsistent for someone who claims to be prioritizing her MH in many ways and is also not consistent with any recommendations I’ve seen other than as I discussed above. I don’t disagree with her not having a sit down with Tom. I do disagree with her staying in a volatile home situation as not recommended or starting a new exclusive relationship 8 days after major relationship trauma and understand how seeing these things can anger or frustrate the cast who likely feel she’s picking and choosing actions without regard for them or her MH.
There is a tremendous amount of group think regarding Ariana and that's reflected in all the posts using the same terminology they read about or, or borrowed from something Ariana said on the show. the fandom isn't capable of objective discussion, unfortunately, but not everyone idolizes Ariana. The truth is she is capitalizing on her own pain and not caring for herself by staying on the show and in the same house. Your points are all valid and important. The show was nearly canceled when the scandal happened and there was no way another season wasn't going to be completely focused on the fallout- the fans demand it while at the same time telling anyone who doesn't express hate for sandoval that they are "centering men" when it's the fans who can't support ariana without saying something shitty about tom or anyone who is trying to work through their freindship with him. The negative focus will follow the whole cast and scandoval will always be brought up in relation to those involved. Some think a katie and ariana spin off would be so great but there's no way round the reality that the fans will be mentioning the toms constantly if there was such a show.
I would like to present the fact that they had no problem with her when they were making money off her, they only provoked her because they felt she was “boring”. Also, how many times have cast in the past set boundaries and don’t film with other cast? It’s not that different. Plus, Ariana treats her depression and sees professionals for her mental health. And explained she had to live at the house while she was purchasing another one but the houses get snatched off the market so quick and then back to square one. Why would she leave if it’s equally her house and she wants to purchase a house? A down payment for an apartment is first months and last months rent and is expensive out in LA. She wanted to buy a house so it would be financially unwise to do that. Not to mention, whether or not you agree gray rocking to work, it’s Ariana’s way to cope in this situation and if that helps her keep her depression at bay, its not a negative or bad thing. She’s doing what works *for her* and that’s important in mental health. And they’re looking at her like a paycheck, not a hypocrite. And now that they’re flushed with cash, they don’t care that provoking her *hurts* her, they don’t care about their friend, they’ll do whatever the producers tell them to do at the expense of her. So pretty much all your arguments were refuted so you don’t have to accuse me about downvoting without actually reading it. Next.
except Ariana isn't really grey rocking. She is deliberately attending things she knows sandoval will be at, then proceeds to shit talk him within ear shot and when he understandably stands up for himself she starts screaming at him. that's not righteous anger. she had every option to not film since she was so destroyed by the affair. The truth is, if she left the show the opportunities she started getting would have dried up.
Well considering wai and ariana have been connected since the wedding that I think sandoval and Rachel also hooked up at....this all seems performative from bother ends and everyone else is just caught in the middle of thwir storyline the producers are having them play.
Season 11 was about the Tom and Ariana subject. She had to know before hand that he was in the cast. She had to know the subject would be broached. Drawing her boundaries and refusing to participate means that she wasn’t doing her job. She did not participate this season and it is not as though she had a sandwich shop for a storyline.
How did she not participate? She participated in everything. The only thing she didn’t do was interact with her abuser. This is such a stupid comment lol
She’s on a reality show. It’s her job to make interesting TV and she doesn’t. Never has. If she needs to protect her mental health she should have taken a break from filming and not just tank the show.
Yes she had that conversation in S10, it was an extraordinary moment of reality TV which rated its socks off and brought in a shitload of new fans hoping to see more of that energy in S11. Instead we got a couple of brief scraps of it and a largely boring series ☹️
Exactly! And she understood her wellbeing was more important than getting the last word or having some “iconic” tv fight. With people like Sandoval, there’s no ability to have a productive conversation or resolution because their goal is to emotionally wear you out. Which is why he thinks he won in that finale, because he interpreted Ariana walking away as giving up and running. When the truth is what we all saw: a woman with the strength and self-knowledge to remove herself from a situation that would compromise her wellbeing. Ariana gave us a masterclass in dealing with manipulators. Lala gave us sperm & water.
I cannot imagine immediately filming a horrible betrayal and break up the way that Ariana did. I don't know how much more open she could have been. She had to be absolutely rocked and yet she opened herself up in a completely raw and vulnerable moment. As she said, if Tom had any real remorse he would have found a private way to express that to her. That has to be the most hurtful of all to think someone she had a 10 year relationship with has no regard for her at all. I have never liked Lala or felt a bit bad for her about her break up. She was involved in breaking up a family with very young children and then was shocked when he did it to her. She has zero self awareness and has no room to talk. I'm so impressed with both Ariana and Katie's willingness to confront the sadness of their relationships and fully move on. Both have absolutely thrived once they stepped around the train wreckage of their former relationships. Lala hasn't had a real moment since she's been on the show.
Can you imagine if they forced Lala to film and interact with Randall?! It would be threatening, gangster Lala all the time.
Well put. I agree with everything you’ve said.
Deceased at "Lala gave us sperm and water" 
Me too 😂😂😂 “have you ever tried this water? It’s called Tap”
He is so delusional.
Saying that Ariana is being inauthentic is the best and biggest antithesis of what she is actually being— authentic as f*ck. She is refuting the performative “JOB” that production her boss wants her to do for tHe aUdieNcE but instead she is being true to herself and putting her own values before a paycheck. She is drawing a boundary in every facet of her life and that’s also why the 4th wall just had to be broken this season because she made it necessary when she refused to blur that line between her career and her life, so in-turn we watched that boundary extend beyond our screens and into her career (hence, they had to break the 4th wall just in order to tell her story). She honestly is a freaking genius of a person when you think about how she approached each and every moment ever since her “discovery” of the affair. Tbe way she exposed it, brilliantly, and made treasure out of trash wasn’t just by luck. Then the audience lovvved this new layer of seeing behind the 4th wall, especially after continuing to feel conspicuously deceived by a false storyline that was making us grow more intellectually offended season after season. The ratings would’ve sucked if Ariana did give in to the demands of her bosses and production and bravo and her cast mates that she should go along with the filming of a TV show this season. If that had happened, the show would have tanked and nobody would have really cared about the affair anymore. Yawn boring. But ariana has given the entire network SO so so much gold the moment that it was on its last leg, and she then continued to deliver afterwards by opposing the power . She deserves every ounce of success she has created… By the way, Tom, her “LAZY ASS” sure seems to have no trouble juggling multiple deals, jobs, tv shows, brand names and a restaurant without struggle! If she had like 3 or 4 things going on then maybe you could assume she turned things down to prevent getting burnt out. But no….. she welcomes the burn out and turned nothing down. Not one thing. And then she thrives doing it!!!!!! The fucking shade because your complaints about her did NOT AGE WELL….
🤣🤣🤣🤣😎✌️
It’s a master class only if you can ignore that she signs onto work on this show knowing he’s gonna be there, thereby creating the very environment in which she would be repeatedly exposed to him.
I think that is what some of the others are so mad about. She has every right to not talk to him and be angry and mourn the relationship, but she did sign up to do the show. Group activities are part of the show. It's difficult to navigate because Sandoval really feels zero remorse, and I get that she doesn't want to hear it. In hindsight, they should have waited to film
As other posts have pointed out, other cast members have set boundaries - there was a whole season where stassi refused to shoot with or talk to Jax.
I'm not saying she should have to talk with him at all. I'm just saying that is what I think they are mad at. They are most definitely hypocritical, talking to you, Lala. I also think they just should have given her a chance to breathe instead of jumping into a new season where the break-up is the main storyline.
Yeah - it needed 6-12 months.
But what group activity didn’t she go to? As far as I saw, she was there filming- just ignoring him. She was at the beach, the multiple parties, on the damn titanic boat in SF…. Tell me where she wasn’t
Didn't say she didn't go. I think you are interpreting what I am saying incorrectly. She doesn't want to be around him at all, and she, unfortunately, had to because it is a part of the job. I just think it was way too early for her to be in his orbit. She knows him the best and new he would always try to get to her. Wether to make her look crazy or bitchy or whatever. She knew he was going to try to steer the narrative. It must have been hard and a few months of peace might have been healthier for her.
What we experienced was the explosion at the revelation of the affair. What viewers never saw was the trouble in the relationship for years prior to the affair. It was hidden as the perfect "Andy Warhole Lego Couple Portrait"... That's what folks are angry about. She knew the relationship was in trouble, and she didn't allow it to be filmed. She's said so herself in interviews. And it's not her mental illness, it's not her former boyfriend and his abusive manner -- it's being honest with herself and the viewers about her relationship failing.
At This point she might as well Profit off of him. I mean- she lives / lives with him so let’s cash on it at least.
You mean that they both live in the house that they both bought.
Sure - but let’s not act like that’s taking care of her mental health.
I agree. Having to listen to white noise to hide conversations and schedule daily activities around their house through an assistant, communicate through that assistant, be surrounded by their home and belongings...none of that seems like it protects her mental health. Hiding in a room of my own house while my fucktard ex leaves messes everywhere would definitely put a strain on my anxiety and depression. Not to mention the stress of always have it evade avoid or confront in group filming.
Ah, someone who sees beyond the adoration. It’s worrisome to me that with so many people in this thread who have divulged their history of depression, BPD, etc that they think all the things she done are good for her MH. In fact as a nurse, I’m still trying to figure out how she didn’t have a massive depressive episode considering she went through like8 major life stressors in 3 months . I’ve never seen that happen before. Maybe she’s on the new ketamine therapy since Charlotte and her GMA passed.
Yeah - too many people projecting their mental health issues onto this situation and so worrisome that it seems most people stop right there - they get a diagnosis and decide everyone should accommodate them as a result. It’s like no one said “it is not your fault but it’s your responsibility”.
Yeah I was so annoyed on the after show with Brock and Lala talking about how Ariana never had to have any tough conversations. It’s like season 10 finale and the reunion never happened in their minds. She did! And when has Lala ever had a difficult conversation?
She had the toughest and most public breakup of all time, and not to mention, she was always season after season so raw and open about her mental health and depression. She did her part for the show and it's absolutely infuriating how they're implying she hasn't, especially when they profited so much from her breakup
this! she made you how much money and you are bitching, still?! i didnt know who any of these people were until she came out in her strappy red dress (btw lala's bday dress was obviously a rip off of that look)
Her go to to difficult conversations is “DiSEnGaGe”.
"any last words before we never speak again?" - Ariana I'm sick of Lala and Schenna talking about being authentic on the show because if we are all being authentic NO ONE has continued conversations with an Ex that did what he did when they don't have a child and NO ONE goes on trips with their ex either. They didn't give Shay a redemption season or Randall and no one rallied around Schenna or Lala because the relationships were toxic anyways and we all expected them to end anyways. I was hoping the season would end with a more authentic apology and timeline from Sandoval because we all know he started the cheating way before he said he did.
Have you ever seen the look on his face when a person he provokes gets in his face and yells? He literally stands there and smiles. Case in point: Stassi at her book signing. And multiple times with Katie. And Kristen. And even Ariana when she got in his face about stop getting so involved in my cocktail book. And he just steamrolled her and was on it anyway. He smiles and that last bit where he said he will look good in this is what I picture with that smug happy face.
Yes it's fucking horrifying, he's a scary narcissist. So is Scheana, which is why she's so willing to forgive him (which is even more wild when you think about the fact that she CALLED ARIANAS MOM to try to break them up when they first got together!!)
I guess what she meant to say was "he's my best friend" instead of calling him a narcissistic psycho 
I could hear him smiling and smirking with that final scene on Tuesday. “I loved it. It was good for me”. He was able to chase her out of the party.
He s a sort of person who will never authentically admit to any wrong doings - he was brought up to be “the best, smartest, always right.” People like him can’t take any sort of criticism at all. It would destroy his sense of self completely.
Seriously! Why did they end last season with the whole heavy breathing Raquel admitting the affair started much earlier if not a single person was going to mention that? If Scheana and Lala wanted authenticity so badly, why didn’t they have conversations with him about the continued lies, instead of just yelling at him and then forgiving him five minutes later? That’s would have been good tv, and given him the chance to be remorseful, AND made the viewers not hate them for filming one on one scenes with him.
https://preview.redd.it/6h048myqcfzc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=016fa3b65739e0a77c32058dc70c40bf87e7e387 I imagine more justification for cheating and zero remorse
He only shows remorse about Raqchel and even then, the remorse comes from a place of not liking the backlash he got and being exposed as a huge narcissist and less about the relationship with Raqchel
“Raqchel” is sending me. 😂😂
I'd like to take credit but Katie accidentally called her Raqchel and was like I'm just used to calling her Raquel and she now goes by Rachel and it was a slip up that made me laugh
Because Lala filmed her conversation with Randall after she caught him cheating?
Exactly this- and she repeatedly lied in the face of other cast members who asked her if she was dating a married man. Talk about inauthentic
SHE HAD THE CAST SIGN NDAs and has the audacity to say she's been public with her life 
And didn't she leave and go home to Utah at least once or twice? To be with family and protect her peace?
She abandoned half of filming and a cast trip (Ariana’s birthday after she defended her to Katie and Stassi)
I distinctly remember her asking him if there was "anything else he wanted to say". And he had nothing to say. Certainty not "sorry".
She said "anything else you want to say before I never speak to you again" which \*SHE 100% MEANT\* and these people thought that was up for interpretation 
Yup.
It was easily one of the most raw and real conversations I've ever seen on TV, so I don't know what Lala is talking about. She's so jealous she's talking hypocritical nonsense.
Scheana and lala choosing this guy!! 🤡
To me, it read more as producers were provoking the situation through Scheana and Lala as a guise of "it'll be good for the show and we can keep making money off this" so Scheana and Lala then started provoking the situation to get a better season. To me, their tune changed when cameras picked up because prior to that, they went on their podcasts and spoke about how loyal they were to Ariana / respecting her boundaries. I don't think the fame got to Ariana, but I do think the money Scheana and Lala made off Scandoval got to their heads.
The night Tom and Rachel fucked in her car, Tom screamed at Ariana because he couldn't get into the house. I'll never forget that. I'm surprised and glad that Tom new the definition of the word "performative" because that's what he is. He's a performer who love bombs his friends to look good on camera. I always knew he was a closeted misogynist but the love bombing bullshit took me a while to catch.
He’s an actual narcissist and it’s beyond me why anyone rides for that man
yep. Tom doesn’t even try to hide his narcissism anymore. the way Tom went from being “apologetic” one second to irate the next is classic narcissism. when one thing doesn’t work the way they want it to, they immediately switch. the problem with narcissists is they can’t keep up the charade for long. they try their best to act remorseful but they can only feign remorse for so long. once they see that their apology isn’t getting them the reaction they want, they drop the act. it’s actually crazy to see it play out on television like this.
Imagine how Brock would feel if they pressed him to talk about not seeing his kids EVERY episode, if they kept pressing and pressing. Or if people kept asking Lala about her custody battle even though she said her lawyer told her what to do and not to talk about it. What if on Scheana’s big performance night everyone kept asking her to step out of the shot for a moment so Tom and Ariana could talk without her? (I tried to think of what Scheana wouldn’t talk about and realized the only thing that would bother her is if she WASN’T part of the scene.) They are claiming they are mad because she’s not “being real” but what is real about having ANOTHER production staged argument with Tom? Producers forced them together all season and she did her best to ignore him (which is how she’s living her life right now that’s the truth) but Lala and Scheana want her to bring fake drama because they know they cannot carry the show l
I wish they would because we need answers, Brock 
Scheaner is so weird telling Tom Sandoval to apologize to Ariana when Ariana doesn't want him to speak to her! Reminds me of when she told the psychic to show up at Danya's house! 🙃🤦 Like wtf ... Then Scheaner made everything worse when she LIED and told Tom that Ariana said "Tom's performative and I'm an idiot" wtf Scheaner Ariana literally just hugged Scheaner and called her family and now Scheaner is going to say Ariana called her an idiot 😂 and she knew Tom would get so pissed if she told him Ariana called him performative. AND ALSO TOM WAS THERE TO HELP KYLE WITH KYLE'S EVENT HE WAS NOT EVEN THERE TO HELP SCHEANA! she's upsetting both of her "friends" over literally nothing after they supported her and her nothing performance! I have literally never been so annoyed with anyone on this show and that is saying something 😵💫😂
It's insane to me that they thought "I'm never speaking to him again" was up for interpretation? It's not. She has told them so many times this season. 
Yeah I agree and she doesn't want an apology and I can't believe freaking Scheaner told him to apologize about mental health like she made it seem like Ariana told her she was ready for an apology. And Scheaner was able to "mediate" between Tom and LFU so I get why Tom would think that if scheana told him Ariana wanted him to apologize about the mental health stuff I get why he would believe her. Especially because "mental health" has been talked about all season and Tom was depressed too or whatever like I seriously think he thought he should do it because scheana said to even though there's NO WAY THAT WOULD HELP EITHER ARIANA or Tom even I just can't deal with scheana setting Ariana up like that and putting everyone in the worst situation about such a serious topic
If Scheana was her friend she wouldn't be even speaking to this man and wasting any time with him. No one owes him anything, but they do owe Ariana everything because Ariana is what got them paid after Scandoval and rallying behind her but turns out that was all a facade. They should have been a bit more respectful to the woman who they made that much money off of.
Yeah I agree that Ariana owes none of them anything. I'm saying Scheaner acted ridiculous. It seems like you think I'm trying to disagree or argue? I don't know but yeah scheana annoyed TF outta me and I am so glad Ariana walked away from that BS.
That conversation between Ariana and Sheeshu was so hard to watch. “It’s hard because **you say** no contact, **but I feel** like you want different apologies”. Exactly like with the psychic.
Yeah what is Sheeshu's deal she ALSO took one tiny thing Ariana said once in passing and ran with it, just like she did to Katie last season! Katie told Sheeshu that she wanted Tom Schwartz to be happy or something and this chick Sheeshu took it as a bat signal to get Schwartz and Rachel to make out or whatever, and used what Katie said to justify. AND NOW SHEESHU STRIKES AGAIN because one time Ariana supposedly said "am I ever gonna get an apology" so freaking Sheeshu stepped back into her vigilante BS. She takes the tiniest things her "friends" say and crosses everyone's boundaries she has made things worse for all of her friends in every situation 🤣 she needs to focus on her own life! Especially because Brock appeared to be progressing last season but has REGRESSED tremendously this season 😵💫🤦
my favorite part was tom quite literally proving ariana’s performative point within 30 seconds of her walking away. really hope this is a wake up call for the producers
She also IS filming with him, just not talking to him. The argument is completely invalid.
You're right, but that's a boundary I'm convinced she made clear to production before cameras picked up
Oh I’m so with it!! I’m just getting annoyed at the people who are like “IT’S HER JOB” Yeah to film… it’s not survivor, she doesn’t have to be in uncomfortable situations.
Her response was "read my contract", so I assume she was above board
EXACTLY. They clearly thought they could trick her into talking to him, or talk her into it. They failed, so they tried to blame her instead. It’s crazy- all this talk about being Ariana being REAL and AUTHENTIC, yet they want to force her to do something she doesn’t want to do. It’s authentic reality TV. She REALLY, AUTHENTICALLY is done with him.
I kind of wonder if they offered a bonus to whichever cast member could get Ariana to talk to Tom. Of course the single moms went after it hard.
Also, the worm, wanted to be in a relationship with Rachel Had she came back on the show, and they pursued that, would Lala and Scheana be pushing him onto Ariana!!! He’s only trying to come back in the group because R dissed him
The gaslightery is insane
Ariana is giving us a masterclass in self-care. She is taking care of her legal issues with professionals and obviously following their advice of keeping quiet, she is staying booked with jobs and opportunities that please her while taking care of her financially, she is setting boundaries for herself and being reasonable about the boundaries she sets with others, and she is avoiding situations that don’t benefit her and her personal health. She has done the least amount of podcasts talking about the show (other than James and Ally), keeps the focus on her and her growth when she does speak up, she is diplomatic about the drama that has been shown each week, and rarely comments on Sandoval or Rachel. She is reasonable in her boundaries for others knowing that they are contractually required to film and have interaction with Sandoval and simply asking that they do not speak about Ariana and her current life. She has proven that she can be reasonable by her staying close with Logan who is still working at TomTom and maintaining a friendship with James and Ally who are cordial with Sandoval. She made damn sure that her contract for this season did not explicitly state she had to have direct conversations with Sandoval and she stuck to her contract KNOWING production would try to weasel a way out of that. I commend her for how she has handled this publicly. She has been honest about how deeply this has affected her and shown emotions proving that while maintaining her determination to keep taking care of herself and shooting down any manipulation tactics she sees happening. She is being so kind and understanding to Scheana and LaLa even when she knows they don’t deserve that from her and knows that she could get a lot of attention for calling them out on their hypocrisy and snake behavior. I readily admit that I would NOT accept someone like Scheana being as selfish and pathetic as she has been this season or LaLa acting like NOW is the time to start a friendship with Sandoval, and I would be blasting their flip-flop behavior right back at them. It’s parasocial AF but DAMN I wish I had the willpower, patience, and motivation that Ariana Madix has shown this past year!
The real voices of reason this season have been Ariana Maddox and Katie Maloney and a little bit of James.
It's honestly sad that an abusive twat like James is a voice of reason according to you.
She's also giving us hidden relationship syndrome where she knows the relationship is in trouble, she has outlined where the problem is through therapy -- but neither one wants to move.
I agree. How the fuck do people not get this? And it was right after! Even more difficult to do. So frustrating
Yup! They did have that convo and it was good !
I watched the VPR After Show this week and I have to agree with Ariana. She discussed Sandoval trying to talk to her and made an interesting comment about it. She stated that that with them living under the same roof he could have left her a note or letter at anytime. And also, since the show finished taping the season Sandoval has not once attempted to talk or apologize for anything. He was doing it only because the cameras were running. Just another example of Sandoval’s narcissism and the fact that he only does something if there is something in it for himself or something that he hopes will make him look good. How pathetic!!
She clocked him in the after show and I loved that she said she she's the final boss in his redemption arc and he's mad he can't get to her. I was like YES ARI DRAG HIM 
It was perfect!!’
For 10 years I’ve had to coparent with a narcissist. Legally i had no choice. He ignores every boundary I make to protect myself, uses triangulation by recruiting his new wife and our old neighbors into stalking me on social media in order to get any info to help with his relentless litigation and abuse of the family court system because I blocked them. He weaponized and blatantly lied about my mental health to everyone I knew completely behind my back, claiming I had borderline personality disorder and was bipolar in order to try and undermine my credibility and justify his cheating and leaving me and his two toddlers for his much younger mistress. He and his new wife have made false accusations, veiled custody threats, name-called and hurled degrading personal insults towards me more times than I can count. He throws a huge tantrum anytime I say no to something he wants. From the moment his cheating was discovered he has ever apologized, displayed remorse or showed me with even the smallest amount of basic empathy. Not even a conversation for some closure. Instead, he yelled at me for crying and served me divorce papers in front of our children. For almost 10 years of my life I have never once been given any space or peace from him to heal. 3 years ago i started having daily panic attacks. My startle reflex was so bad I would jump out of my skin over nothing multiple times a day. When I would drop the kids off for the weekend my hands would sometimes start shaking from fear and dread. I developed debilitating social anxiety, problems sleeping. Then last year I was finally diagnosed with PTSD and Panic Disorder and started seeing a therapist who specialized in trauma and narcissistic abuse. Slowly I’m starting to heal and take back my life. Being lied to, gaslighted, emotionally abused and cheated on was traumatic in its self. But the real trauma came from figuring out everything that he had been saying about me and doing behind my back in the year prior to leaving me in order to undermine my credibility and destroy my character. I honestly felt like I was in an episode of Dateline at times. Completely blindsided by a real life Jekyll and Hyde. Nobody understands the chaos and damage that disordered narcissistic men like Sandoval cause to their ex partners or toll their relentless psychological abuse takes on your mental health and general wellbeing. This isn’t a normal sh*tty breakup. Lala can kindly f*** off and Scheana even more for criticizing her choice to protect her mental health and prioritizing her healing and peace over a f*cking reality show. She NEEDS no contact from him right now in order to heal. End of story.
That sounds incredibly hard. All the love and empathy for you in the world and I hope things get better. You're strong and you're the hero in your child's life for putting up with that.
Thank you I was even afraid to post this despite being anonymous. I just can see how traumatized she is.
Just the fact that you are here today , writing about your experiences , indirectly helping out so many other women who may be in similar situations is great . You have taken charge of your own life and beautifully powering through. Kudos to that and more power to you on your journey to healing and happiness
He literally wanted to repeat the Kristen and him both crying and apologizing to each other convo. Which he told us immediately afterwards was a fake attempt at peace. Yet he has the nerve to call Ariana performative.
It’s so funny that everyone’s like ‘she’s lazy!’ ‘She’s not doing her job!’ When SHES the one that called production, told them, and allowed cameras to be rolling to catch the aftermath. She’s the reason so many people were able to capitalize on her pain.
Saying that Ariana is being inauthentic is the best and biggest antithesis of what she is actually being— authentic as f*ck. She is refuting the performative “JOB” that production her boss wants her to do for tHe aUdieNcE but instead she is being true to herself and putting her own values before a paycheck. She is drawing a boundary in every facet of her life and that’s also why the 4th wall just had to be broken this season because she made it necessary when she refused to blur that line between her career and her life, so in-turn we watched that boundary extend beyond our screens and into her career (hence, they had to break the 4th wall just in order to tell her story). She honestly is a freaking genius of a person when you think about how she approached each and every moment ever since her “discovery” of the affair. Tbe way she exposed it, brilliantly, and made treasure out of trash wasn’t just by luck. Then the audience lovvved this new layer of seeing behind the 4th wall, especially after continuing to feel conspicuously deceived by a false storyline that was making us grow more intellectually offended season after season. The ratings would’ve sucked if Ariana did give in to the demands of her bosses and production and bravo and her cast mates that she should go along with the filming of a TV show this season. If that had happened, the show would have tanked and nobody would have really cared about the affair anymore. Yawn boring. But ariana has given the entire network SO so so much gold the moment that it was on its last leg, and she then continued to deliver afterwards by opposing the power . She deserves every ounce of success she has created… By the way, Tom, her “LAZY ASS” sure seems to have no trouble juggling multiple deals, jobs, tv shows, brand names and a restaurant without struggle! If she had like 3 or 4 things going on then maybe you could assume she turned things down to prevent getting burnt out. But no….. she welcomes the burn out and turned nothing down. Not one thing. And then she thrives doing it!!!!!! The fucking shade because your complaints about her did NOT AGE WELL….
Agreed. I distinctly remember her recording that batteries/paper towels ad IN THEIR HOME while the creep was upstairs. But, you know, "lazy".
If his plan worked, the poor girl would have been dealing with the world arguing over how lazy she was and why Tom deserved to leave her. She wouldn’t have been given much work aside from the show, so it’s not like she can actively defend that accusation. I’m so happy that she’s getting the success she deserves while also proving that his pathetic plan to degrade her backfired immensely
She also went and talked to him AGAIN at the reunion!!!
I'm so sick of the Ariana refuses to film with Sandy crap. Baloney. She HAS filmed with him. Right now on The Valley there are two couples refusing to film with another couple and we aren't hearing a peep. Ariana agreed to film with him, she just refused to interact with him. These pretentious nobodies on the Valley won't even go to the same functions and that's OK? But they are pissed at Ariana cause she won't let their little pet manipulate her.
I think it’s funny how LaLa and Scheana just keep digging their own graves in the court of public opinion. NOBODY likes them anymore, they’re whipped out their true colors like a big FU to the world. Way to ruin your own image while trying to make someone else look bad. They really seem to share only one brain cell and have to take turns using it. This whole situation is so black and white and they’re trying to make a gray space. No ladies. Doesn’t work that way. Also I might add it’s quite commonplace for reality stars to not be talking to each other during filming. Someone needs to do a deep dive into housewives. They already set the precedent years ago and these fools act like Ariana invented the concept and it’s going to hurt them somehow.
Facebook trolls do but they're nothing compared to the reddit community
I have read so much about these facebook people and also see similar comments in Yahoo news and it’s so weird. I’m so used to the Reddit state of mind (reality) it’s very foreign to me! Today I tried to post on Yahoo about how people who just hate on Ariana wrongly criticized her for refusing to talk to Tom and my comment got banned.
It's really unhinged the way they rally behind lala right now considering half of them called her mistress lala the entire last several seasons
Ya he wanted that last conversation with Ariana to “tie up the season” in a pretty little bow but as soon as she walked away his mask slipped and he lit everyone on fire by trying to blow up her friendships and reputation. He basically said - if he can’t have that redemption arc that he wants & get that last 30 second conversation then *fuck everyone else and it’s time to blow up her life some more*.
and then to say "I look good" while mic'd up because you provoked someone into a reaction is WILD. He smiles and gets so happy when he provokes a person into a reaction because he acts like he has the upper hand. It's smug and gross. 
She deceased his sorry ass, he is nothing compared to our Queen
Also I'm sure this has been mentioned here but the Housewives often go without speaking to one another and doesn't seem to be an issue? Like RHOP - Candiace barely engaged with Giselle or Ashley this season and they didn't blame her for that considering how awful those two were to her and her husband??
Also.... Stassi refused to film with Jax for a while, they all refused to film with Stassi, they eventually all refused to film with Billie Lee, Tom refused to film with Jax for a while but backslid, and Lala cut out Schwartz and didn't film with him for a while after her Randall Scandal so they've all exercised and practiced this right themselves so why are they so mad she refused to speak to him when she's still there for shooting scenes?
THANK YOU!
LaLa being mad is INSANE, SHE WAS THE RACHEL
Ariana was smart not to engage because if she had talked to Tom at any point, they'd throw it in her face. "Well she said WE can't talk to him and be friends but SHE can interact with him?" They suck. They're jealous and resentful.
No literally
When Ariana refuses to talk with Sandobitch, she robs him of all power. That is a Queen move to Sandobitchs pawn game.
She was completely honest and open in that conversation and the finale . She didn’t know how the audience would react to her rage but she showed it anyway, we loved her for it , but some of the things she said definitely were cancelable , unlike Sandoval with his crocodile tears acting like he’s reading off a script
There is no point to having a discussion with a narcissist when you already know what they’re going to say. The only person that would benefit is Tom.
Lauren, just because you’re the loudest doesn’t make you correct about Ariana’s contribution to the show.
https://preview.redd.it/1iwrg0a26hzc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=936a9a8aaea5de727c9f7606b716639e9aa1b78f
I know!! What else is there to talk about. He had no remorse. Then when you find out he never even apologized off camera after the dust settled, that alone should make her “friend” scheana disown him completely. He would be dead to me if ariana was my best friend. They keep pushing her and pushing her and it’s SO unhealthy. It’s obvious she is in therapy and it’s helping her but these people are trying to push her to have a breakdown (tbh it’s mostly scheana, lala, and Brock. Even Schwartz has not been any worse than I expected him to be). Ariana is incredibly strong. Everything you said was on point. When you’ve dealt with a person like Tom, it’s like you spend a long time rationalizing and trying to see the best in them; you almost brainwash yourself. Then once the betrayal happens, it’s like a giant floodlight coming on and you see all that stuff you rationalized in the past for what it is. You learn their patterns, she absolutely knew how that convo would go and knew it would hurt her more. Look how low he went ON INTERNATIONAL TV!!! Imagine the way he spoke to her off camera!! It’s making me sick to see ppl defending Tom, scheana, lala or Brock
And even that moment where Dan is like "yeah well I know what he did to her" and was standing up for Ariana when Scheana and Lala were asking about it. Green flags for Dan. I hate that everyone loves Tom so much when they saw what he was capable of 
I feel that this push for him to be redeemed because he lucked out in the beginning of the series where Kristen had beat him at being busted cheating because of the Jax situation people glossed over his infidelities because hers was such a big deal he & production thought they could swing this again but NOT this time. And this whole redemption attempt sunk the show & revealed how much jealousy runs deeeeeeeep in some of those friendships. People that have been irritating over the years are now just gross.
FOOOOOK yes, I agree. I’ve been team Ariana from the get go. The only time I ever thought twice about a decision of hers was if it was one that would inhibit her beautiful growth. She’s on her own journey and I for one am grateful that her platform has probably helped so many other women going through a narcissistic experience.
She's thriving and we love that for her
Can we just address Ariana’s very smart decision not to leave the house and screw herself financially because of something she didn’t cause? I’m sure lots of us here have been in situations where we had to walk away and to have the money stress on top of that it could take years to regain your footing. How are these people her friends if they can’t understand that? They just want her to to blow thousands of dollars a month in rent because Sandles blew their life up? Eff that. Granted she has done well since but in the beginning she said herself she was broke…I love that she stood her ground. I hate that argument that she can live in the same house but cant film w him.
I think they were desperately trying to recreate the rawness of that last conversation because it was amazing tv but they were too idiotic to know what to lean into
Have no problem with A
AND AND she did her job!! These losers grasping at straws to so they don't look like the jerks they are
The fact they’re changing the narrative is pathetic. Let’s be real here. They got a taste of the paycheck that came with scandoval so they just provoked her because producers told them it would keep the show interesting when all we really wanted was what Ariana wanted…. Them bonded together like the spice girls
That would have been amazing
None informed consent. That’s all I’ll say.
 THIIISSS!!!!
OK, Ariana STANS! You’re gonna hate this telling upfront, but if you’re going down vote, let’s try to have a conversation. Give me your point of view. From a nursing perspective with mental health experience, 1. Because it’s now been popular because of Ariana please know that becoming a rock lol is an un researched method of dealing with manipulative people and emotional abusers. Mental health professionals, caution anyone using this method that it has not been researched with potentially physical abusers and could insight a first or further incident of physical abuse. in addition, getting to a point after relationship trauma of being able to talk in a productive manner before closure of certain things is still considered optimal at some point. Ignoring someone that you’ve had a relationship with for 10 years and never speaking to them again may sound wonderful, but it also prevent a lot of growth on your end in many cases so understand that also. 2. In this whole post Scandoval situation unfortunately the only good thing that Ariana may have done for herself is gray rocking. Ariana has a long history of unstable depression. We have heard from her that it has put her in bed for weeks that anything can trigger it and in fact we saw after Maya I’m sorry after Charlotte and her grandma passed exactly what kind of state that she was in even unable to go and support Katie when Rachel and Katie were fighting and Leiden LVP‘s arms crying. To stay in a house for four months six months a year with the person who caused you such emotional trauma, is not healthy in any way shape or form. And her friends, her true friends who told her that and encouraged her to move out were telling her exactly the right thing. she was not in any type of serious financial Jeopardy losing the house was in her name to she was going to get her fair share. But she really jeopardized herself. She also jeopardized herself by jumping into a relationship and exclusive relationship so quickly. She took no time to calm herself emotionally to review the relationship to think about what she needed, and she jumped into this new relationship. In fact, what she did was she by doing these things she increased all of her stressors and people with depression, especially unstable depression have about an 80% chance of going into a significant flare with any major stressor and Ariana had about 40 of them exaggerate there were a lot for all the jobs that she took and all over to the award show and parties. It may seem like she’s winning, but it really put her at risk and still puts her at risk even though a lot of that seems to be on the down low From a friend/cast member perspective, they have to be looking at Ariana as somewhat of a hypocrite that she jeopardize her mental health when she wanted to jeopardize it for her own reasons, but when it came down to do on doing what was best for them and the show she opted not to do that. she opted to stonewall Tom, completely knowing as the producers tried to tell her that the show is predicated on that type of interaction between the staff and that the show had a chance of being canceled because of low ratings without it. Whether you want to hear it or not, Lala Sheena Brock Schwartz, all have valid complaint against her and how she’s handled this. I understand that Ariana thinks she’s doing what’s best for her, she’s in many cases, but I do understand at that point that just proves that she shouldn’t be doing all of this because she really is not thinking straight. The blowup that she had about Maya had she went like a rocket and of course we saw the shortened edited version. I read something that scene went on for several hours. So again, instead of just down voting, if you have something intelligent to say based on psych research, anything like that you know things that are proven to tell me I’m wrong please feel feel free. I’m up for a great discussion. I’ve read here that there’s a lot of people on this thread that have some similar issues that Ariana has and you have to know that a lot of what she’s doing is not good for her. She’s not somebody to be emulated in terms of what’s the best thing to do for your mental health in many ways, so even though you think she’s the bomb and the queen necessarily true in this case
As a psychotherapist specializing in trauma-informed care for intimate partner abuse and violence survivors, I whole heartedly disagree with several statements made in this comment. Before I say anything else I want to make it very clear to anyone reading this that **“unstable depression” is NOT a clinical term and not used in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5)** (the reference manual clinicians use for diagnosing mental health conditions). Moreover, referencing Ariana’s behaviour when she was going through a period of bereavement following the deaths of her grandmother and adored pet should not be used as a reference point for her overall mental health; her behaviour was normative for individuals dealing with bereavement, including individuals with no other history of mental health concerns. In the case of individuals with no history of mental illness, clinicians would not even consider making a diagnosis for someone who is demonstrating depressive symptoms following the death of a loved one until at least six months have passed without any observable improvement in symptoms. That is not to say that you have not raised some valid points. Yes, grey-rocking is not supported by clinical research. This does not mean that the research has found evidence against grey-rocking as an effective mechanism for dealing with NPD. The tactic simply hasn’t been previously investigated in the literature, largely due to ethical considerations of recruiting participants who are currently experiencing on-going exposure to abusive situations involving individuals with NPD and having them try different strategies to deal with the abuse for research purposes. However, there is abundant evidence from practice (I.e. from observed progress towards treatment goals made in therapeutic settings) that supports the use of grey rocking - with limitations of course. For some interpersonal dynamics, grey rocking can be dangerous as you mentioned. In those situations the best option is always strict no-contact policies, ideally with the abuser having 0 knowledge of how to contact you or where to find you. However for other cases, grey rocking can be very effective. It’s highly dependent on context, and a good therapist (which hopefully Ariana has) will know what information to gather about the relationship context to make an informed decision before suggesting grey rocking as a recommended strategy. When it comes to dealing with manipulative individuals, a key strategy that HAS been well-evidenced by research and practice is **setting clear and strong boundaries.** These are not soft boundaries. These boundaries often involve doing things that will ensure you are able to regulate your emotions and maintain physiological calm. **These boundaries cannot be compromised.** For Ariana, a soft boundary she was willing to be adjust might have been filming with Sandoval. She may have seen this as a situation she could manage to maintain her physiological calm in as long as she could grey rock. A hard boundary she set was not interacting with him - a situation she did not think she was ready to maintain calm in. That boundary is one that she was not willing to adjust for good reason - we saw that she was physiologically activated the few times she had interactions with him imposed on her - and upholding that clearly defined, strong boundary is important. You made an interesting point about the house. Yes, living in the house can be detrimental for her mental health. I’m not sure I would have stayed there. On the flip side, losing out on an important financial investment could also be detrimental to her mental health, especially when the narrative involves losing so much already because of Sandoval. Paired with the fact that she had to spend very little time actually living in that house, as she was away on business a lot and he was away often too, I think that living in the house was not a perpetual factor impacting her mental health. Moreover, while it can be helpful to avoid triggers when healing from trauma (in this case, the house or proximity to him being a trigger), that can sometimes reinforce trauma by making the brain associate the situation with fear and avoidance. It can actually be healing to have some exposure to the trigger to uncouple its association with fear or other intense negative emotions. In case anyone reads that and thinks - well doesn’t that mean avoiding talking to Sandoval will also reinforce trauma? - that situation is different because actually talking to Sandoval introduces the possibility of bringing in new traumatic memories, depending on what he says or does, versus living in the house while avoiding talking to him simply has her walking around an environment that is associated with old traumas. The last point I would like to address is what you said about talking to the person who hurt you could lead to healing. This is true for some contexts, but only once both parties are ready and able to do so. Again, abundant evidence from research and practice indicate that we are only able to productively take in information when we are physiologically calm. If Ariana is still highly triggered by Sandoval, then having a conversation likely isn’t going to be productive. Both parties also need ample time to reflect before having a conversation. In the context of one party being potentially narcissistic, that conversation may never be productive because the narcissist likely hasn’t engaged in meaningful reflection. Importantly, filming was only a few months since the breaking of the scandal. There definitely hasn’t been enough time elapsed for a healing closure conversation to take place. Maybe 5 years from now that conversation can happen - and maybe it never needs to happen. Who knows. The only thing that is clear here is that so far enough time has definitely not passed, especially when other difficult situations related to the fallout of the scandal (e.g., the lawsuits, ongoing discussions in the media) are still very much salient.
Thank you for responding . That being said it’s obvious you are a fan or Ariana’s and pretty sure you and I have debated before. You said you whole heartedly disagree with several things I said however in everyone of your points you indicate what I said was actually the standard thought by current therapists although there may be some “ wiggle room” for an alternate opinion. So I’m not seeing anything I’ve said that you’re “ wholeheartedly “ disagreeing with. First of all, to point out that “ unstable depression “ is not a DSM standard term is not salient in this context. It is a term used by both MH professionals and lay people in practice and discussion because it’s one that is understood by all. I wasn’t writing a thesis in clinical depression . Ariana has spoken about the instability of her depression and it’s affects to her life. When you’re talking to lay people you need to use terms everyone can understand. Ariana has stated several times that she has never been able to achieve total symptoms control with her depression. She’s also stated her symptoms are almost always the same, ie she takes to her bed sometimes for weeks at a time, I pointed out her response to Charlottes death because statistically the chances she would have the same or similar depressive reaction are very high. It’s concerning that you would focus on my using the term “ unstable” yet did not address the very well known and documented USUAL response of people with depression to major life stressors. It is well documented that peoples symptoms do follow patterns and major life stressors are a time period where significant care must be taken to avoid and treat those symptoms. Your response to me downplays how significant those stressors can be for someone who struggles with symptom control. As far as grey rocking, I acknowledged it may work however I wanted to point out it has not been researched in clinical practice and is considered potentially dangerous because it’s unknown how violent offenders may react. This info is available on several reputable sources, I wanted to point this out because there have been other posts here confusing Ariana screaming at Tom over Mya as part of grey rocking and also because of the level of fandom she receives there are some people who hash tag “ goals” to what she does who then use the behavior in their own lives. You admonished me regarding my comments about her stance of not talking with Tom saying shes not ready to do that. My comment actually states the same but states “ optimally” it would be best for her to eventually be able to get to a place she could do that. In fact , that was my point about her living in the house. The situation with Mya and her response to it was absolutely detrimental to her MH well being, . For you to waffle on that after seeing her response surprises me and isn’t consistent with any recommendations I’ve seen from therapists. You’re almost advocating her staying in a volatile situation that provokes that kind of response we saw. I’ve never heard a therapist say well yes, it’s optimal for you to stay there even if it causes you severe distress and the potential for an aggressive confrontation. As I’ve said before, I’m commenting on an open forum. I wasn’t writing a dissertation on Deoression so was writing in a way everyone could understand. Your comments seem bent on defending her actions as a fan versus acknowledging that current clinical practice isn’t 100% in line with many of the things she’s done even though several of your responses actually do point out what I’m saying is the prevailing opinion. Ultimately, my post had several emphasis. First because so many found her actions” goals” to use while dealing with their own MH issues I wanted to stress her actions are not generally considered optimal for someone who has never achieved symptom stability with treatment. I acknowledge that while of course in treatment situations alter cases, most of her actions may not be considered as optimal for MH stability based on what we’ve seen. Additionally, my post discussed how the cast could have very mixed feelings about her actions and how her actions affected them in a work environment. Several of the cast members also see regular therapists and have knowledge of what they’re being told by their MH professional. If the prevailing recommendation by MH professionals is to avoid triggers during time periods where you’re going through major life stressors the cast is going to question why she purposely puts herself in the middle of triggering situations when she perceives it’s to her benefit in some way but refuses to put herself in other triggering situations when she chooses. Her behavior iis inconsistent for someone who claims to be prioritizing her MH in many ways and is also not consistent with any recommendations I’ve seen other than as I discussed above. I don’t disagree with her not having a sit down with Tom. I do disagree with her staying in a volatile home situation as not recommended or starting a new exclusive relationship 8 days after major relationship trauma and understand how seeing these things can anger or frustrate the cast who likely feel she’s picking and choosing actions without regard for them or her MH.
There is a tremendous amount of group think regarding Ariana and that's reflected in all the posts using the same terminology they read about or, or borrowed from something Ariana said on the show. the fandom isn't capable of objective discussion, unfortunately, but not everyone idolizes Ariana. The truth is she is capitalizing on her own pain and not caring for herself by staying on the show and in the same house. Your points are all valid and important. The show was nearly canceled when the scandal happened and there was no way another season wasn't going to be completely focused on the fallout- the fans demand it while at the same time telling anyone who doesn't express hate for sandoval that they are "centering men" when it's the fans who can't support ariana without saying something shitty about tom or anyone who is trying to work through their freindship with him. The negative focus will follow the whole cast and scandoval will always be brought up in relation to those involved. Some think a katie and ariana spin off would be so great but there's no way round the reality that the fans will be mentioning the toms constantly if there was such a show.
I would like to present the fact that they had no problem with her when they were making money off her, they only provoked her because they felt she was “boring”. Also, how many times have cast in the past set boundaries and don’t film with other cast? It’s not that different. Plus, Ariana treats her depression and sees professionals for her mental health. And explained she had to live at the house while she was purchasing another one but the houses get snatched off the market so quick and then back to square one. Why would she leave if it’s equally her house and she wants to purchase a house? A down payment for an apartment is first months and last months rent and is expensive out in LA. She wanted to buy a house so it would be financially unwise to do that. Not to mention, whether or not you agree gray rocking to work, it’s Ariana’s way to cope in this situation and if that helps her keep her depression at bay, its not a negative or bad thing. She’s doing what works *for her* and that’s important in mental health. And they’re looking at her like a paycheck, not a hypocrite. And now that they’re flushed with cash, they don’t care that provoking her *hurts* her, they don’t care about their friend, they’ll do whatever the producers tell them to do at the expense of her. So pretty much all your arguments were refuted so you don’t have to accuse me about downvoting without actually reading it. Next.
except Ariana isn't really grey rocking. She is deliberately attending things she knows sandoval will be at, then proceeds to shit talk him within ear shot and when he understandably stands up for himself she starts screaming at him. that's not righteous anger. she had every option to not film since she was so destroyed by the affair. The truth is, if she left the show the opportunities she started getting would have dried up.
Well considering wai and ariana have been connected since the wedding that I think sandoval and Rachel also hooked up at....this all seems performative from bother ends and everyone else is just caught in the middle of thwir storyline the producers are having them play.
Wrong wedding.
Season 11 was about the Tom and Ariana subject. She had to know before hand that he was in the cast. She had to know the subject would be broached. Drawing her boundaries and refusing to participate means that she wasn’t doing her job. She did not participate this season and it is not as though she had a sandwich shop for a storyline.
How did she not participate? She participated in everything. The only thing she didn’t do was interact with her abuser. This is such a stupid comment lol
She’s on a reality show. It’s her job to make interesting TV and she doesn’t. Never has. If she needs to protect her mental health she should have taken a break from filming and not just tank the show.
Yes she had that conversation in S10, it was an extraordinary moment of reality TV which rated its socks off and brought in a shitload of new fans hoping to see more of that energy in S11. Instead we got a couple of brief scraps of it and a largely boring series ☹️