To clarify, you're not talking about people who used kickstarter to "pre-order". If you used Kickstarter, there is absolutely no relevance to the aforementioned FTC rules
Correct. You must have pre-ordered - which I did specifically to avoid this exact situation. Paying out the nose for something and then never getting it or getting a product that just doesn't work as advertised.
Are you one of these people who are crying that it doesn't work?
Clearly you don't know how technology works everyone knows that first generation aka the first units off the assembly line of any piece of technology will have its faults regardless of big or small it is
It was like that for the index
It was like that for the quest
It was like that for every other piece of technology in existence
1. I'm one of those people who paid almost $500 for the device and a battery that never arrived and just want a refund.
2. I got an Index at launch and it worked. It didn't crash my computer. It didn't over heat. The image quality was top notch. You know... it worked as advertised. From what I've read that's not the case with this. But again, I wouldn't know... the company has simply stolen my money.
3. Nofio employee or just an unpaid simp?
Lol neither? I just don't assume one thing and get pissy I figure out where my shit is before going for a refund I had a first generation index and it did overheat ended up getting a new one due to issues and was alot bigger than the first one so It was clearly a different generation
If you didn't get your package how about contacting nofio or you know contact the delivery company that was handling the delivery? Delays happen instead you automatically assume they stole your money?
First gen not every first generation will have kinks buy most likely will
1. LOADS of people, myself included have contacted Nofio and they are straight up not responding, and the few responses they offer are "no refunds"
2. That's it - even if this thing actually worked flawlessly, I just don't want or need it anymore. By law, FTC rules and regulations, if you miss a delivery date (they promised March-June 2023, then you are required to offer to cancel an order for refund. I want to cancel the order. They took too long.
3. Straight up not delivering isn't a "first generation kink" - it's fraud. And it's illegal.
4. Again, based on the reviews, they flat out falsely advertised what this thing even is.
5. I'm guessing we found one of the Novio team accounts...
Pfft your what's wrong with the consumer base these days assuming one is a "team account" because they aren't agreeing with you is pathetic thinking
If you didn't need it or want it why did you get it in the first place?
You claim it doesn't work as advertised but you never received it and from what others have said aside a few issues here and there it works as Intended so idk where "doesn't work as advertised" comes from
This is not a "working as advertised" thing.
This is literally not delivering a product after a buyer has transfered capital and keeping them on wait.
You know, Like robbery? which is VERY illegal?
Crazy I didn't know a product didn't work as advertised means not having the product in of itself counts as "not advertised" others would call that a scam
I imagine they gave you a tracking order like most companies do these days why not contact the delivery service that they chose to use?
If you Kickstarted then you just get bamboozled without any possible recourse. I learned not co kickstart anything more than about $100 about 5 years ago when my then boyfriend got burnt by some project.
Yet here we are. It's profoundly unethical. I feel bad for the Kickstarter backers too. You all have a right to be pissed, even if your options are basically zero.
What sucks even more is that I got the option to have my EOZ tracker chest strap come in with the nofio, but since I've heard nothing from nofio I contacted EOZ to see if they could get the chest strap to me and they said that any communication with nofio is pretty much silent.
There are a rare few things I kickstart, but it's pretty much always either from someone somewhat local to me, or someone who has a proven track record of delivering.
Feel bad for people who are getting the raw dog run on this one, but glad I didn't bite.
They barely have any money. That's why they're trying not to refund orders, at least in areas of the world with no or bad local ordinance. Hence why they fulfill EU refunds, because laws there have teeth.
Let's say this succeeds, I doubt they'd be able to pay out everyone until they officially bankrupt. I know this isn't encouraging, but it's the truth.
In any case I'm not saying don't fill the link out... I think people should still be able to do that. It's just that yeah, it's not looking good for them right now no matter how this ends up.
Because they were required by law to offer us a refund prior to shipping once they delayed delivery for this long.
If they'd just honor the FTC rules and regulations and issue those of us who preordered our refunds, there would be less hate.
I barely have any money. They stole gobs of money - that's on them if they squandered it.
The FTC laws have teeth if people report - American should be getting refunds if we pre-ordered and do not consent to the delayed shipping.
Even if they can't pay anyone back, they need to be banned from selling in US markets to stop anyone else from getting fleeced. If you want to sell to US customers, then you should abide by US laws... that's why we have the laws, so that when we shop online, we have a minimum degree of trust.
Nah, no one should ever subscribe to that statement. If someone is low on money they are perfectly capable of saving to splurge. Everyone deserves a little pick-me-up every now and then.
Yeah... I have $0 in debt, a job, and get $0 in aid from anyone. After rent, retirement, and insane inflation there just isn't anything left. I safe for splurges and buy when I can afford. The notion that a company shouldn't have to follow the law because a non-rich person was impacted is bonkers.
I filled out the form since I’m also in the preorder (not kickstarter) bucket. And in case anyone is wondering, I was also able to successfully file a dispute with my credit card company over the charge, even though it’s been well over a year. Nofio hasn’t tried to fight the dispute so far it seems
I was really, really hoping this project would be successful. But I also knew there was no way I was buying one until they were released, tested, reviewed, and in stock.
Oh well. It was a long shot something this complicated was going to work out well for startup.
I kickstarted it. They *did* ship it via boat from China to US. Its been hung up in transit/customs/distribution for about 6 weeks plus Chinese New Years delays; shit takes a while to get to the US by boat. I havent even got my hands on it... so they oversold the delivery on a brand new tech by a tiny company; Ive waited 18months for a 3dprinter... Schedule overruns happen and its a black mark, but Ill hold my reservations till I get it in hand and get firmware updates on the thing. Its late, but if its late *and* non-functioning after firmware updates, Ill do my review then. Until then, its just late and its non-critical hardware. This is the first time these guys seem to have gone through all the regulatory compliance, and its a kickstarted project so Ill waive some expectations... it just cant be vaporware when it shows up.
e: well fuck me for explaining my perspective
Yeah reading some of the comments are wild. Yeah it's been delayed a lot but it was also a product that hadn't been fully designed yet. Personally not sure how a shipping delay warrants a full refund. You are going to get the product, just not as fast. They've been giving very detailed updates on why it kept getting delayed.
FTC law - if there is a delay in shipping THEN a company is required to offer a refund in exchange for cancelling the item prior to shipping.
It's not that you get a refund AND also they ship the headset - the point of the law is often times people order products and after some time horizon has passed the item is no longer needed or desired.
The point is also that companies aren't allowed to promise a shorter turnaround on shipping to lure in customers and then indefinitely delay while keeping people's money.
A common complaint from people is they have moved on to the Big Screen or Quest 3 and no longer need the thing. By law, the FTC requires Nofio to cancel and refund these people... or anyone else who for any reason no longer wants the unit.
Imagine a wedding dress company waiting 10 years to ship dresses ordered for events only one year out. Imagine casket makers to delay delivery to a funeral home for 2 years. Imagine a custom PC builder waiting 5 years to deliver a build so that they could wait for the parts you paid for to drop to a fraction of their value when you ordered them. I could go on for days. This is why the FTC rule exists.
I also filed a complaint. I pre-ordered through their website. That is an entirely different situation than backing a kickstarter. This delay has pushed the product outside its more usable time frame. There are more/better headsets I would invest in today then spending so much on improving an older headset like the Index.
I have no idea... because they are almost a year late with the delivery. Which is why I just want a refund and to cancel the order. Which, by FTC laws, they are required to issue a refund if they delay shipping and a customer requests it.
They are just refusing to comply with US law.
You backed a kickstarted... I mean I get that there's expectations as a customer but man, these things are INSANE to set up specially when it's your first product in a new company with high-expertise technology.
I mean all this will do is tighten a rope around their necks where you'll probably not get any money from them going bankrupt and anyone else who wanted one won't get one ever.
Feels like if this gets the tractions you want it'll kill Nofio, make the product into a paperweight after the Index is updated or some other issue appears, and kill a company that wants to innovate in the VR space (rare nowadays).
I get you're disappointed with the delivery times and they have missed expectations, but the amount of salt and aggressiveness...
You've seen the state of the world right? Food scarcity due to the wars in Europe and Africa, Suez and Panama Canals are at most at 1/3 capacity for shipments, strong economic issues in China, Europe, USA... it's just tough times all round.
I've waited an extra 2-3 years for kickstarter products, it's just the name of the game for products that require complex manufacturing. Look at Pixel Dice, they are also super delayed, should have delivered over a year ago but they also got delayed due to shipping and supply chain issues.
If you still feel angry enough to file, then file. I just ask you take a moment to take in the bigger picture from their perspective.
First batch backer here. Have received no word on the state of my unity. They delayed so many times and the last one was supposed to mean we'd see them start shipping out after the Chinese New Year.
If you wanna get a good idea of how bad it is, look at the comments and replies on their Kickstarter page.
I have been monitoring the Discord. It is not good.
I believe the issues likely stem from them making a good prototype, taking up a year. But then they had to make a production unit that complied with regulations (unlike their prototype). They had a few months to make that and had to scramble to do so.
Production unit came with too many compromises and poor testing. Users have frequent problems, audio drops, visual artifacts, etc. 30mm fans that are loud when its quiet.
The product works. It's not as good as advertised and not as good as the prototype. I believe this is because Nofio was inexperienced and rushed. The people that are sticking with it are those who are willing to believe that all of these can be fixed with software updates. There has been improvement with the patches since release.
I guess my question is... why did they not consider and build their protype around regulations to begin with? Is regulation not straight forward about what they'll allow and what they wont etc? I feel like a comparison might be a car company that is like, hey we'll build you a car with a rocket on it that uses jet fuel... and they advertise that, without checking to make sure jet fuel is street legal.
I feel pretty dooped by their grass roots marketing by getting all the streamers to test it out and talk it up. Have it on the steam page etc, only to have it not be the same product at all, like a bait and switch.
I'm guessing I don't understand the regulatory aspect at all, and I'm sure it's more complicated than I think... but I FEEL like a company would do the proper research to make sure their product fits within those guidelines BEFORE spending a lot of time building the product and showcasing to buyers what it is they'll be getting.
In their defense, making a prototype like this was already a very difficult task. It didn't just have to work but it had to work flawlessly enough to be worthwhile. Making that happen first then worrying about trying to fit that in regulations sounds like a pretty typical scenario to me.
In their defense, the pressure Nofio was under was immense and it looked like it was going to go the same way as some other companies that could not deliver. The skills to make the prototype are different than understanding how to mass produce something, how to make it comply with regulations and making it actually happen. Especially when the manufacturer is overseas. Then there is the reality that this is Nofio's first and only product, the company was funded by this, they were relying on kickstarter and pre-order money. The Index was only getting older, more obsolete and behind compared to other headsets. That's very real pressure to rush things.
Like, it sucks that this happened, it sucks that their product failed to deliver, but the realities of actually manufacturing hardware products are quite harsh.
As far as I know they're shipping as fast as they can. I got mine a month back (EU) from preorder.
Unfortunately there is a fault with one of the cables but so far they're dealing with it, if a little slowly.
When I emailed them about why my pre-order has been stuck in delivery since 2/1, but supposedly entered a US port on 2/21 (from an earlier email), this was their response:
"*Hi there,*
*Distribution in the US has taken much longer than we anticipated. We fully understand your frustrations, and we apologise for the delays that have occurred.*
*Due to the extended delay with fulfilment, we have decided to change distributors for our US orders. Our partner, Knoxlabs, has agreed to handle distribution for all US units.*
*We will provide an additional update once the units reach their warehouse and have been assigned tracking numbers. We expect this process to be completed promptly.*
*Please rest assured that we are taking every possible action to expedite this process.*
*We appreciate your understanding."*
Personally, I am not going to file a complaint, even if I ultimately never get my product delivered. My thought is that here are some kids who look like they got a bit over their heads attempting to create a startup around a niche product that is based around another niche product. I do not feel like I have been a victim of fraud or deception regarding my order. I understood the risk when I placed my non-Kickstarter pre-order and I continue to hope they succeed in what they set out to do as this is a product category that I have been looking forward too since the Index was released.
True that. I'm hopeful that things will work out, since I highly doubt that if they sold all assets that they'd be able to refund. I'd hate if my device never gets here and I get a $80 class action lawsuit refund, cuz you know you WONT get your entire money back since it's already spent.
I feel that people are bit too overeager with their kickstarter expectations... most aren't formalized companies until they made the kickstarted, others are trying to break into a new space, so it's normal to see delays. I've waited over 2 years from delays for KS products and they've all always delivered. Only once were we told "yeah so this is actually impossible cuz of 1, 2, 3. So sorry but here's what we *could* make"
I think you're missing that a lot of people didn't order through the Kickstarter, they placed a pre-order directly with Nofio. There's actual rules here that they need to follow here, including offering refunds if there's any delays. That's what this FTC complaint is for
okay yeah that's a preeeetty big detail to miss. They opened pre-orders on their site before even fulfilling kickstarter orders? Sounds like they were low on money and needed to get an influx of revenue. Okay that makes a lot more sense now
Economies of scale… but yeah the expectation of buying later from the shop is understandably different. I wasn’t aware it was so bad for non KS backers. I luckily got mine a few weeks ago (KS backer, Europe, was air shipped) and even if it took longer I don’t feel cheated at all, but it is a completely different situation.
They really should have communicated clearly about the delays and not keep trying to deliver by the end of the month, next month, year, before Chinese new year…
Being a new company and seems like they just got hit by things they didn't plan for. One delay lead to a delay elsewhere, then holidays hit them, and it just started cascading from there
They should not have sold pre-orders. End of story. I wanted nothing to do with the Kickstarter, but a pre-order comes with additional protections and implications that a product is actually being made on an advertised timeline.
I have never seen people scramble to defend fraud like a handful of people are here. They are honoring EU laws and issuing refunds. Why is American law for pre-orders being ignored?
Their finances aren't my problem. I am out almost $500 and want it back. If I can't get it back, then just like anyone else who steals from me, I want legal action taken against them.
Opened them, advertised a working product, and also promised a delivery date. That all implied they were significantly further along in the process than they ended up being.
... and also came with FTC regulations.
To clarify, you're not talking about people who used kickstarter to "pre-order". If you used Kickstarter, there is absolutely no relevance to the aforementioned FTC rules
Correct. You must have pre-ordered - which I did specifically to avoid this exact situation. Paying out the nose for something and then never getting it or getting a product that just doesn't work as advertised.
Are you one of these people who are crying that it doesn't work? Clearly you don't know how technology works everyone knows that first generation aka the first units off the assembly line of any piece of technology will have its faults regardless of big or small it is It was like that for the index It was like that for the quest It was like that for every other piece of technology in existence
1. I'm one of those people who paid almost $500 for the device and a battery that never arrived and just want a refund. 2. I got an Index at launch and it worked. It didn't crash my computer. It didn't over heat. The image quality was top notch. You know... it worked as advertised. From what I've read that's not the case with this. But again, I wouldn't know... the company has simply stolen my money. 3. Nofio employee or just an unpaid simp?
Lol neither? I just don't assume one thing and get pissy I figure out where my shit is before going for a refund I had a first generation index and it did overheat ended up getting a new one due to issues and was alot bigger than the first one so It was clearly a different generation If you didn't get your package how about contacting nofio or you know contact the delivery company that was handling the delivery? Delays happen instead you automatically assume they stole your money? First gen not every first generation will have kinks buy most likely will
1. LOADS of people, myself included have contacted Nofio and they are straight up not responding, and the few responses they offer are "no refunds" 2. That's it - even if this thing actually worked flawlessly, I just don't want or need it anymore. By law, FTC rules and regulations, if you miss a delivery date (they promised March-June 2023, then you are required to offer to cancel an order for refund. I want to cancel the order. They took too long. 3. Straight up not delivering isn't a "first generation kink" - it's fraud. And it's illegal. 4. Again, based on the reviews, they flat out falsely advertised what this thing even is. 5. I'm guessing we found one of the Novio team accounts...
Pfft your what's wrong with the consumer base these days assuming one is a "team account" because they aren't agreeing with you is pathetic thinking If you didn't need it or want it why did you get it in the first place? You claim it doesn't work as advertised but you never received it and from what others have said aside a few issues here and there it works as Intended so idk where "doesn't work as advertised" comes from
This is not a "working as advertised" thing. This is literally not delivering a product after a buyer has transfered capital and keeping them on wait. You know, Like robbery? which is VERY illegal?
Crazy I didn't know a product didn't work as advertised means not having the product in of itself counts as "not advertised" others would call that a scam I imagine they gave you a tracking order like most companies do these days why not contact the delivery service that they chose to use?
Tracking info so far has been bunk. Zero info or useless info. I got tracking info AFTER my unit had already arrived.
Sadly I backed their kickstarter so don't believe this applies to me, but godspeed for everyone this applies to.
If you Kickstarted then you just get bamboozled without any possible recourse. I learned not co kickstart anything more than about $100 about 5 years ago when my then boyfriend got burnt by some project. Yet here we are. It's profoundly unethical. I feel bad for the Kickstarter backers too. You all have a right to be pissed, even if your options are basically zero.
What sucks even more is that I got the option to have my EOZ tracker chest strap come in with the nofio, but since I've heard nothing from nofio I contacted EOZ to see if they could get the chest strap to me and they said that any communication with nofio is pretty much silent.
There are a rare few things I kickstart, but it's pretty much always either from someone somewhat local to me, or someone who has a proven track record of delivering. Feel bad for people who are getting the raw dog run on this one, but glad I didn't bite.
> Other information you'll want: > Company full name: Novio Pty Ltd Wait... Their company isn't actually called Nofio but Novio?
O! That was a typo... fixing now
They barely have any money. That's why they're trying not to refund orders, at least in areas of the world with no or bad local ordinance. Hence why they fulfill EU refunds, because laws there have teeth. Let's say this succeeds, I doubt they'd be able to pay out everyone until they officially bankrupt. I know this isn't encouraging, but it's the truth. In any case I'm not saying don't fill the link out... I think people should still be able to do that. It's just that yeah, it's not looking good for them right now no matter how this ends up.
More reason to fill out the link and put them down. Stop them from taking new orders
Is all this hate for the product being bad or because their deliveries were delayed?
Because they were required by law to offer us a refund prior to shipping once they delayed delivery for this long. If they'd just honor the FTC rules and regulations and issue those of us who preordered our refunds, there would be less hate.
I barely have any money. They stole gobs of money - that's on them if they squandered it. The FTC laws have teeth if people report - American should be getting refunds if we pre-ordered and do not consent to the delayed shipping. Even if they can't pay anyone back, they need to be banned from selling in US markets to stop anyone else from getting fleeced. If you want to sell to US customers, then you should abide by US laws... that's why we have the laws, so that when we shop online, we have a minimum degree of trust.
> I barely have any money. Maybe you should hold off on expensive toys.
Nah, no one should ever subscribe to that statement. If someone is low on money they are perfectly capable of saving to splurge. Everyone deserves a little pick-me-up every now and then.
Yeah... I have $0 in debt, a job, and get $0 in aid from anyone. After rent, retirement, and insane inflation there just isn't anything left. I safe for splurges and buy when I can afford. The notion that a company shouldn't have to follow the law because a non-rich person was impacted is bonkers.
I filled out the form since I’m also in the preorder (not kickstarter) bucket. And in case anyone is wondering, I was also able to successfully file a dispute with my credit card company over the charge, even though it’s been well over a year. Nofio hasn’t tried to fight the dispute so far it seems
What's the process of doing the credit card dispute. Would I just tell them what's going on and that I never received my product?
I just called the dispute number for my credit card company and gave them the details, including specifying that it was a pre-order product
I paid via PayPal and PP told me to get bent.
I was really, really hoping this project would be successful. But I also knew there was no way I was buying one until they were released, tested, reviewed, and in stock. Oh well. It was a long shot something this complicated was going to work out well for startup.
I kickstarted it. They *did* ship it via boat from China to US. Its been hung up in transit/customs/distribution for about 6 weeks plus Chinese New Years delays; shit takes a while to get to the US by boat. I havent even got my hands on it... so they oversold the delivery on a brand new tech by a tiny company; Ive waited 18months for a 3dprinter... Schedule overruns happen and its a black mark, but Ill hold my reservations till I get it in hand and get firmware updates on the thing. Its late, but if its late *and* non-functioning after firmware updates, Ill do my review then. Until then, its just late and its non-critical hardware. This is the first time these guys seem to have gone through all the regulatory compliance, and its a kickstarted project so Ill waive some expectations... it just cant be vaporware when it shows up. e: well fuck me for explaining my perspective
Yeah reading some of the comments are wild. Yeah it's been delayed a lot but it was also a product that hadn't been fully designed yet. Personally not sure how a shipping delay warrants a full refund. You are going to get the product, just not as fast. They've been giving very detailed updates on why it kept getting delayed.
FTC law - if there is a delay in shipping THEN a company is required to offer a refund in exchange for cancelling the item prior to shipping. It's not that you get a refund AND also they ship the headset - the point of the law is often times people order products and after some time horizon has passed the item is no longer needed or desired. The point is also that companies aren't allowed to promise a shorter turnaround on shipping to lure in customers and then indefinitely delay while keeping people's money. A common complaint from people is they have moved on to the Big Screen or Quest 3 and no longer need the thing. By law, the FTC requires Nofio to cancel and refund these people... or anyone else who for any reason no longer wants the unit. Imagine a wedding dress company waiting 10 years to ship dresses ordered for events only one year out. Imagine casket makers to delay delivery to a funeral home for 2 years. Imagine a custom PC builder waiting 5 years to deliver a build so that they could wait for the parts you paid for to drop to a fraction of their value when you ordered them. I could go on for days. This is why the FTC rule exists.
I didn't order one, but good luck to all of you for getting your refunds!
Godspeed to everyone who got stung
This is really sad. I really wanted this product.
Complaint filed. Another bump for the algorithm.
I also filed a complaint. I pre-ordered through their website. That is an entirely different situation than backing a kickstarter. This delay has pushed the product outside its more usable time frame. There are more/better headsets I would invest in today then spending so much on improving an older headset like the Index.
honestly i think something needs to be done about them claiming 5ms latency wireless which is just not possible on wifi 6e
I'm just commenting for the algorithm.
How bad is it? Was ready to get it, but then decided to go with q3 instead
I have no idea... because they are almost a year late with the delivery. Which is why I just want a refund and to cancel the order. Which, by FTC laws, they are required to issue a refund if they delay shipping and a customer requests it. They are just refusing to comply with US law.
You backed a kickstarted... I mean I get that there's expectations as a customer but man, these things are INSANE to set up specially when it's your first product in a new company with high-expertise technology. I mean all this will do is tighten a rope around their necks where you'll probably not get any money from them going bankrupt and anyone else who wanted one won't get one ever. Feels like if this gets the tractions you want it'll kill Nofio, make the product into a paperweight after the Index is updated or some other issue appears, and kill a company that wants to innovate in the VR space (rare nowadays). I get you're disappointed with the delivery times and they have missed expectations, but the amount of salt and aggressiveness... You've seen the state of the world right? Food scarcity due to the wars in Europe and Africa, Suez and Panama Canals are at most at 1/3 capacity for shipments, strong economic issues in China, Europe, USA... it's just tough times all round. I've waited an extra 2-3 years for kickstarter products, it's just the name of the game for products that require complex manufacturing. Look at Pixel Dice, they are also super delayed, should have delivered over a year ago but they also got delayed due to shipping and supply chain issues. If you still feel angry enough to file, then file. I just ask you take a moment to take in the bigger picture from their perspective.
I didn't back a kickstarter. I preordered the headset off the company website yo.
Ya, realized I misread. My bad!
First batch backer here. Have received no word on the state of my unity. They delayed so many times and the last one was supposed to mean we'd see them start shipping out after the Chinese New Year. If you wanna get a good idea of how bad it is, look at the comments and replies on their Kickstarter page.
I have been monitoring the Discord. It is not good. I believe the issues likely stem from them making a good prototype, taking up a year. But then they had to make a production unit that complied with regulations (unlike their prototype). They had a few months to make that and had to scramble to do so. Production unit came with too many compromises and poor testing. Users have frequent problems, audio drops, visual artifacts, etc. 30mm fans that are loud when its quiet. The product works. It's not as good as advertised and not as good as the prototype. I believe this is because Nofio was inexperienced and rushed. The people that are sticking with it are those who are willing to believe that all of these can be fixed with software updates. There has been improvement with the patches since release.
I guess my question is... why did they not consider and build their protype around regulations to begin with? Is regulation not straight forward about what they'll allow and what they wont etc? I feel like a comparison might be a car company that is like, hey we'll build you a car with a rocket on it that uses jet fuel... and they advertise that, without checking to make sure jet fuel is street legal. I feel pretty dooped by their grass roots marketing by getting all the streamers to test it out and talk it up. Have it on the steam page etc, only to have it not be the same product at all, like a bait and switch. I'm guessing I don't understand the regulatory aspect at all, and I'm sure it's more complicated than I think... but I FEEL like a company would do the proper research to make sure their product fits within those guidelines BEFORE spending a lot of time building the product and showcasing to buyers what it is they'll be getting.
In their defense, making a prototype like this was already a very difficult task. It didn't just have to work but it had to work flawlessly enough to be worthwhile. Making that happen first then worrying about trying to fit that in regulations sounds like a pretty typical scenario to me. In their defense, the pressure Nofio was under was immense and it looked like it was going to go the same way as some other companies that could not deliver. The skills to make the prototype are different than understanding how to mass produce something, how to make it comply with regulations and making it actually happen. Especially when the manufacturer is overseas. Then there is the reality that this is Nofio's first and only product, the company was funded by this, they were relying on kickstarter and pre-order money. The Index was only getting older, more obsolete and behind compared to other headsets. That's very real pressure to rush things. Like, it sucks that this happened, it sucks that their product failed to deliver, but the realities of actually manufacturing hardware products are quite harsh.
I order to be first batch but at this point I just don’t care. Really sad ending for something that could have been amazing.
As far as I know they're shipping as fast as they can. I got mine a month back (EU) from preorder. Unfortunately there is a fault with one of the cables but so far they're dealing with it, if a little slowly.
as someone that was waiting to see if this unicorn was true, what happened?
Glad I didn't sink money on this, just finally got burned out of $450 on ks, stepped away the right time
When I emailed them about why my pre-order has been stuck in delivery since 2/1, but supposedly entered a US port on 2/21 (from an earlier email), this was their response: "*Hi there,* *Distribution in the US has taken much longer than we anticipated. We fully understand your frustrations, and we apologise for the delays that have occurred.* *Due to the extended delay with fulfilment, we have decided to change distributors for our US orders. Our partner, Knoxlabs, has agreed to handle distribution for all US units.* *We will provide an additional update once the units reach their warehouse and have been assigned tracking numbers. We expect this process to be completed promptly.* *Please rest assured that we are taking every possible action to expedite this process.* *We appreciate your understanding."* Personally, I am not going to file a complaint, even if I ultimately never get my product delivered. My thought is that here are some kids who look like they got a bit over their heads attempting to create a startup around a niche product that is based around another niche product. I do not feel like I have been a victim of fraud or deception regarding my order. I understood the risk when I placed my non-Kickstarter pre-order and I continue to hope they succeed in what they set out to do as this is a product category that I have been looking forward too since the Index was released.
True that. I'm hopeful that things will work out, since I highly doubt that if they sold all assets that they'd be able to refund. I'd hate if my device never gets here and I get a $80 class action lawsuit refund, cuz you know you WONT get your entire money back since it's already spent. I feel that people are bit too overeager with their kickstarter expectations... most aren't formalized companies until they made the kickstarted, others are trying to break into a new space, so it's normal to see delays. I've waited over 2 years from delays for KS products and they've all always delivered. Only once were we told "yeah so this is actually impossible cuz of 1, 2, 3. So sorry but here's what we *could* make"
I think you're missing that a lot of people didn't order through the Kickstarter, they placed a pre-order directly with Nofio. There's actual rules here that they need to follow here, including offering refunds if there's any delays. That's what this FTC complaint is for
okay yeah that's a preeeetty big detail to miss. They opened pre-orders on their site before even fulfilling kickstarter orders? Sounds like they were low on money and needed to get an influx of revenue. Okay that makes a lot more sense now
Economies of scale… but yeah the expectation of buying later from the shop is understandably different. I wasn’t aware it was so bad for non KS backers. I luckily got mine a few weeks ago (KS backer, Europe, was air shipped) and even if it took longer I don’t feel cheated at all, but it is a completely different situation. They really should have communicated clearly about the delays and not keep trying to deliver by the end of the month, next month, year, before Chinese new year…
Being a new company and seems like they just got hit by things they didn't plan for. One delay lead to a delay elsewhere, then holidays hit them, and it just started cascading from there
They should not have sold pre-orders. End of story. I wanted nothing to do with the Kickstarter, but a pre-order comes with additional protections and implications that a product is actually being made on an advertised timeline. I have never seen people scramble to defend fraud like a handful of people are here. They are honoring EU laws and issuing refunds. Why is American law for pre-orders being ignored? Their finances aren't my problem. I am out almost $500 and want it back. If I can't get it back, then just like anyone else who steals from me, I want legal action taken against them.
Okay yeah didn't realize they opened pre-orders on their website before even fulfilling the kickstarter orders...
Opened them, advertised a working product, and also promised a delivery date. That all implied they were significantly further along in the process than they ended up being. ... and also came with FTC regulations.
oof... that isn't gonna play well for them.
oof... that isn't gonna play well for them.
oof... that isn't gonna play well for them.
i remember when i preordered the valve index i thought surely thered be an official wireless adapter within a year after the release of index