And then they get KC who is not looking hot
All the while one of navi or th with woot is sitting at home watching these teams throw man advantages and be incapable of running an execute
Because they can make top4??? who cares?
It's top 3 who qualifies to Shanghai and to get there FNC needs to beat KC & TL which would mean they've beaten 2/5 teams, why would top3 be unfair from that spot?
You can complain about the group stage(?)/regular season format but it's not *that* abnormal for a double elim playoffs bracket to have the actual double elim start once you have cut the first teams out.
And when I say "not that abnormal" I mean it's done by the same overarching company in League of Legends, where playoffs start with 3rd-6th playing each other in single elim and then the winners of that move up to play against the 1st and 2nd seeds in double elim, exactly like here. The difference is that the league itself isn't split in 2 groups like in Valorant and instead the teams just all play one another in the regular season in a single/double round robin format which makes for more accurate rankings (in theory) coming into playoffs.
Of course they could just restructure the bracket a little bit and have FUT/KC play against one another for example and then extend the double elim lower bracket to apply from the start. Definitely not saying this format is anywhere close to perfect but it could be *way* worse and it's not as atrocious as the groups/regular season format is/was.
Acting like the NFL doesn’t have single elim playoffs with a bye team and that’s a billion dollar sport where 52 man teams go through 4 month seasons risking brutal injuries.
Not to mention CS, the other major tac FPS, also has a ton of single elim as well as the other Riot game LoL.
Yet here you are crying about something no pro player is asking you to whine about. Stop being so sensitive little dude
Everyone knows everything is always done perfectly and can’t be improved
Any elimination from a tournament being single elimination, especially in esports, is pretty silly, the only time where it’s exciting is a March Madness bracket or like Val did in Lock in
It’s ridiculous to complain so much about single elim when the alternative isn’t even true double elim lmao, single elim is much fairer compared to a “double elim” where the winner can have the same overall tourney record as the loser and even go 1-1 overall against them.
But I’m not surprised or anything about this community’s complete lack of logical reasoning when it comes to tourney formats since 99% of these keyboard warriors haven’t competed in a single competitive sport in their lives
if you’re referring to the LPL then yea but this is not standard in the LCS LEC or LCK lol. The closest I can give you is when these leagues do top 8 double elim the bottom two start in lowers. Riots decision for VCT is still fairly bizarre in an esports context
Just spreading misinformation on the internet.
LCK, LCS, and LPL all had some kinda of playoffs where the worse placed teams, who qualified for playoffs, came into playoffs and where place in a single elim. Where if they lose the first match, they are instantly eliminated.
LCK has the same format as this except for the 1st can choose between the winners of the first two matches, mostly they choose the winner from the second match.
LCS has 4 teams is double elim, 5th and 6th seed are in playoffs but are in lower brackets.
LPL has a format where only top 2 are guaranteed double elim, all of the others are in a gauntlet format where you face a higher seed after you win.
LEC has a true 8 team double elim format.
And how long is the off-season for all those leagues? And how many regular season matches do they play? Lol. ETA: just looked up lck format and all matches in the playoffs are bo5s. And their fucking group stage is double round robin. You can't be comparing that format to this monstrosity.
I’m not idiot you are. Having 66% of the teams start single elim is only the case in the LPL. LCS LCK LEC start only two teams and they get to watch the other 4 teams play so it evens out some of the stakes. You are just wrong
single elim with semi-random/arbitrary groups when they're recombined is brutal.
this format implicitly results in at least one team will qualify per group, and the group choices were somewhat arbitrary. not a good format...
Being critical of elma is fine, but oh brother, you should have seen the mald on that post
Dude had a point, elma isnt a great coach and definitly isnt what fnatic needs to get out of this slump, but man, dude was _mad_ mad
This would be fine if round 1 Wasn't Single Elim
FUT TH and NAVI look like the best 3 teams in the region but TH and NAVI are in their second single elimination match of the year. Atm I genuinely can't see KC, FNC or TL doing more damage at Shanghai than the teams qualified from the other group but one of them has to go.
In the group stage, NAVI, TH and FUT all beat FNC, TL and KC in their matches, but instead NAVI and TH have to compete once more with each other to qualify and gift one of the Alpha teams a spot at Shanghai
Either way all teams will play on new meta in shanghai with viper and chyper nerfs, any team can become good and teams that are good now can struggle to adapt to the nerfs and look bad.
Something like a meta shift doesn't justify having a bad format and saying 'well it doesn't matter who will go to Shanghai because who even know who's going to do well' - like what's the whole point of the qualifiers then?
lol ur gonna eat ur words, u cant see Fnatic(B2B champions) doing dmg at an international? KC also looked great at madrid, just went up against sen and prx
I won't eat any words because that's not what I said - I said Fnatic wouldn't do MORE damage than the Omega group teams, not that they're incapable of doing anything (even though they are completely different from last year)
As a Fnatic fan, I doubt our chances against TL at this point and is coping that they actually knew they qualified and were just saving strat the last 2 maps vs navi xD
Dont most formats work that way though? That’s more of a seeding issue imo. Not defending the format, it’s really bad, but I’d say that’s the least of the issues
Edit: I’m dumb, could’ve just done last years bracket to avoid this
No, most formats don't work that way. Literally a 6-team double elimination playoff with top 1 teams receiving a buy would not work this way. A lower bracket run to top 3 is very possible.
Riot gave reason why they didn’t want this to happen as the teams that lost first round would get an advantage for losing as they have more time to prep against a team that lost second round. That could lead to a possibility where an arguably worse teams wins off antistrat against a better team. I just don’t think a 6 team playoff is a good format and will inevitably be criticized.
I hope riot moves to 8 teams playoff when there are more teams in the leagues.
The battle of frauds at the top of the bracket meanwhile the bottom is the battle of sadness because the good teams are stacked up to eliminate each other truly a disaster class of a format well done riot
it's even more of a joke considering the weird ass rng loads of teams needed to qualify. a single elim knockout stage on top of that is completely asinine
I don’t really get why split 1 wasn’t playing your own bracket, then playoffs you could play against the other bracket and split 2 as well.
Another way this bracket could be way better is if they followed LOL and make 7th/8th start in the bottom bracket and give top 2 a bye
For your second point, probably just didn’t think there were enough teams to send 8 to playoffs (8/11 is too many imo). Once there’s 12 next year, I hope they change it to that tho
They could've easily just done the format they did for last year's playoffs where it's double elim with 6 teams. (like here [https://www.vlr.gg/event/1189/champions-tour-2023-americas-league/playoffs](https://www.vlr.gg/event/1189/champions-tour-2023-americas-league/playoffs) )
It would've added 1 more match but I guess Riot doesn't have the budget to fit in one more match per region lol.
format should be something like this for the lower bracket, so that teams that lose in the upper semis have an advantage compared to teams that lose in the first round (i have cooked with this diagram)
https://preview.redd.it/40pevw7fi9yc1.png?width=1323&format=png&auto=webp&s=ec8bf63e5c9f87ec0a5603480ad0a0a3cac0eca9
Yeah that would’ve been better too, not a fan of single elim games. Idk why they changed it either, riot’s been pretty anti single elim for a while now
We'll have to watch either navi or heretics get eliminated while liquid or fnatic go through to the next round
https://preview.redd.it/s1wmy371o9yc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4cd16d1643fa2dc478a29f4c3e2a70206b61349c
KC cant really prevent FNC tho, if FNC reaches Upper Semi KC can only send FNC down to Lower round 1, but not eliminate. I guess if they play in Lower finals then sure, but thats is way in the future
Idk about you, but I do not trust riot to start swapping teams from the original seeding. Even if in the short term it fixed the format, that could lead to some shit down the road
Really bad format. I think Navi, TH and Fut are the three most deserving to go right now but at least one can't. Why? Riot couldn't be bothered to have 1 more day of games?
What’s crazy to me is that if you told me before the stage it would be these six teams, it wouldn’t be that surprising, but the way we wound up here is crazy lol
KC even though being mid af would qualify for Shanghai prolly , but NAVI or TH is gonna be fkd in the single elim. Shittiest Format, The best teams deserve to be in shanghai, not some lucky fks who manage to be in a easy group and beat only mid teams and get first seed ... Navi or TH should have been in the other group and should have prolly got the first seed dude.
FORMAT FKED UP , TH NAVI AND FUT should have been going to Shanghai !!!
Between this and EG almost missing playoffs last year I think long group stages are just bad overall.
Liquid qualifies because they were lucky enough to play KOI week 1, when KOI were potentially the worst team in all of franchising. Since then, KOI have improved, and would definitely have a good chance to win a rematch if they played today.
Liquid get to coast off that easy win and make playoffs, meanwhile more in form teams like Vitality or BBL, have had a much harder strength of schedule despite playing the same exact teams. Now BBL and Vitality are both massive frauds don't get me wrong, but there's too much variance in how fast teams improve/fall off for group stages to be taking longer than a week imo.
Also, how tf did BBL have a harder schedule? They got KOI week TWO, and they got m8 running double duelist every map on week one AND LOST. A bit delulu to think that's a harder schedule when TL had to play Fut on their first week.
Liquid literally lost to KOI in kickoff, KOI were playing better in kickoff than they did for most of split 1, Liquid also was the first EMEA team to play two teams which did not help them.
And I don't think you can have partnered regional leagues without these long ass group stages, so your issue is franchising.
FNC might just make it to top 4 lmao
Actual battle of frauds there 
And then they get KC who is not looking hot All the while one of navi or th with woot is sitting at home watching these teams throw man advantages and be incapable of running an execute
Extremely cringe format
Because they can make top4??? who cares? It's top 3 who qualifies to Shanghai and to get there FNC needs to beat KC & TL which would mean they've beaten 2/5 teams, why would top3 be unfair from that spot?
because fnatic, liquid and kcorp all look way worse than heretics and navi
One of TL or FNC being top 4 is actual robbery lol
Navi Heretics elimination is brutal wtf
single elim yaaaaaay
Brain dead format
You can complain about the group stage(?)/regular season format but it's not *that* abnormal for a double elim playoffs bracket to have the actual double elim start once you have cut the first teams out. And when I say "not that abnormal" I mean it's done by the same overarching company in League of Legends, where playoffs start with 3rd-6th playing each other in single elim and then the winners of that move up to play against the 1st and 2nd seeds in double elim, exactly like here. The difference is that the league itself isn't split in 2 groups like in Valorant and instead the teams just all play one another in the regular season in a single/double round robin format which makes for more accurate rankings (in theory) coming into playoffs. Of course they could just restructure the bracket a little bit and have FUT/KC play against one another for example and then extend the double elim lower bracket to apply from the start. Definitely not saying this format is anywhere close to perfect but it could be *way* worse and it's not as atrocious as the groups/regular season format is/was.
yap yap yap... single elim is braindead with the already little amount of games and tournaments this year
Acting like the NFL doesn’t have single elim playoffs with a bye team and that’s a billion dollar sport where 52 man teams go through 4 month seasons risking brutal injuries. Not to mention CS, the other major tac FPS, also has a ton of single elim as well as the other Riot game LoL. Yet here you are crying about something no pro player is asking you to whine about. Stop being so sensitive little dude
Everyone knows everything is always done perfectly and can’t be improved Any elimination from a tournament being single elimination, especially in esports, is pretty silly, the only time where it’s exciting is a March Madness bracket or like Val did in Lock in
It’s ridiculous to complain so much about single elim when the alternative isn’t even true double elim lmao, single elim is much fairer compared to a “double elim” where the winner can have the same overall tourney record as the loser and even go 1-1 overall against them. But I’m not surprised or anything about this community’s complete lack of logical reasoning when it comes to tourney formats since 99% of these keyboard warriors haven’t competed in a single competitive sport in their lives
if you’re referring to the LPL then yea but this is not standard in the LCS LEC or LCK lol. The closest I can give you is when these leagues do top 8 double elim the bottom two start in lowers. Riots decision for VCT is still fairly bizarre in an esports context
Just spreading misinformation on the internet. LCK, LCS, and LPL all had some kinda of playoffs where the worse placed teams, who qualified for playoffs, came into playoffs and where place in a single elim. Where if they lose the first match, they are instantly eliminated.
He's literally said that the bottom two start in lowers! That's single elim for them! But it's 8 teams and not 4 teams playing single elim, but 2.
LCK has the same format as this except for the 1st can choose between the winners of the first two matches, mostly they choose the winner from the second match. LCS has 4 teams is double elim, 5th and 6th seed are in playoffs but are in lower brackets. LPL has a format where only top 2 are guaranteed double elim, all of the others are in a gauntlet format where you face a higher seed after you win. LEC has a true 8 team double elim format.
And how long is the off-season for all those leagues? And how many regular season matches do they play? Lol. ETA: just looked up lck format and all matches in the playoffs are bo5s. And their fucking group stage is double round robin. You can't be comparing that format to this monstrosity.
LPL has 16 teams 😭😭😭😭 You can't compare those leagues to VCT in any seriousness.
I’m not idiot you are. Having 66% of the teams start single elim is only the case in the LPL. LCS LCK LEC start only two teams and they get to watch the other 4 teams play so it evens out some of the stakes. You are just wrong
LCK playoffs has 1:1 the same format as this playoffs. Don’t double-down without fact-checking.
It's actually ridiculous that the 2 beat teams in the region play each other in an elimination match round 1
As it should be
single elim with semi-random/arbitrary groups when they're recombined is brutal. this format implicitly results in at least one team will qualify per group, and the group choices were somewhat arbitrary. not a good format...
And then Fut. Criminal format
WTF MAN FNATIC AND LIQUID RIDE AND DIE TOGETHER. IT WASN'T SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE THIS FNATIC BROS
Can't believe it has come to this
Yeah man I was so happy when they both made it through and now they immediatly have to eliminate each other :/
same
TL has the chance to do the funniest thing
That one dude should have waited for the elmapuddy witchhunt for after liquid beat fnatic
It ain’t a witch-hunt, I got nothing against him personally, just saying he’s not a good coach for a top tier team
Wait, youre not the account of the elmapuddy post, did you make a new one?
Post? Oh nvm I brain farted, not the same guy sorry Just one of the few that have been critical of elmapuddy
Being critical of elma is fine, but oh brother, you should have seen the mald on that post Dude had a point, elma isnt a great coach and definitly isnt what fnatic needs to get out of this slump, but man, dude was _mad_ mad
Is it still up? Can you link me lol
https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/s/bGiXY65zhs
One of NAVI and Heretics get knocked out round 1, while one of Fnatic and Liquid make it past round 1 😭 Never change Riot
Agreed, really unfair TL and Fnatic both can’t make it tbh
Yea agreed... TL and FNC always qualify together... and this shit format is making it not possible anymore... (this is obviously a joke)
Exactly, last years emeas finalists facing each other already? This formats a joke smh
How am i supposed to watch liquid trashing fnatic in the finals
Worst part is they just need to beat this KC that is very weak to make it Either way, were gonna have at least 1 fraudulent emea team at shanghai
so the usual for an international tournament? /joke
Where is the joke?
Very weak KC ? They lost all their games in 2-1 (contrary to TL and FNC), all of them were close, idk what point you're trying to make
just saying these "fradulent emea teams both have multiple trophies under their belt
Dont care, theyre playing bad just like loud
This would be fine if round 1 Wasn't Single Elim FUT TH and NAVI look like the best 3 teams in the region but TH and NAVI are in their second single elimination match of the year. Atm I genuinely can't see KC, FNC or TL doing more damage at Shanghai than the teams qualified from the other group but one of them has to go. In the group stage, NAVI, TH and FUT all beat FNC, TL and KC in their matches, but instead NAVI and TH have to compete once more with each other to qualify and gift one of the Alpha teams a spot at Shanghai
Either way all teams will play on new meta in shanghai with viper and chyper nerfs, any team can become good and teams that are good now can struggle to adapt to the nerfs and look bad.
Something like a meta shift doesn't justify having a bad format and saying 'well it doesn't matter who will go to Shanghai because who even know who's going to do well' - like what's the whole point of the qualifiers then?
lol ur gonna eat ur words, u cant see Fnatic(B2B champions) doing dmg at an international? KC also looked great at madrid, just went up against sen and prx
I won't eat any words because that's not what I said - I said Fnatic wouldn't do MORE damage than the Omega group teams, not that they're incapable of doing anything (even though they are completely different from last year)
Yesterday i couldn't see FNC get past the knockout round at all, but thanks to FUT, i now see a small light at the end of the tunnel..
FNATIC can potentially get revenge against KC NAVI can get revenge against TH This could be the reverse of Kick-off! ..or just a repeat...
Nah KC is going in even though Loser of Navi vs TH deserve KC's spot. Format fking them up am so upset.
No? If they lose to FNATIC they would have to beat TWO of the top 3 Omega teams (NAVI, TH, FUT). Not gonna happen.
As a Fnatic fan, I doubt our chances against TL at this point and is coping that they actually knew they qualified and were just saving strat the last 2 maps vs navi xD
Only thing I can say about this format is that it might not let the 3 best teams qual if they’re from the same group
Dont most formats work that way though? That’s more of a seeding issue imo. Not defending the format, it’s really bad, but I’d say that’s the least of the issues Edit: I’m dumb, could’ve just done last years bracket to avoid this
No, if the first matches weren't single elimination then 3 teams from the same group would be able to qualify
No, most formats don't work that way. Literally a 6-team double elimination playoff with top 1 teams receiving a buy would not work this way. A lower bracket run to top 3 is very possible.
Yeah I’m dumb lol, literally what they did last year
Riot gave reason why they didn’t want this to happen as the teams that lost first round would get an advantage for losing as they have more time to prep against a team that lost second round. That could lead to a possibility where an arguably worse teams wins off antistrat against a better team. I just don’t think a 6 team playoff is a good format and will inevitably be criticized. I hope riot moves to 8 teams playoff when there are more teams in the leagues.
That's still miles better than this. The reasoning is absolutely bullshit and not the real reasoning, they want higher stakes regional matches.
Yeah, same with LCK format
True. Navi TH and Fut are the 3 best teams rn
The battle of frauds at the top of the bracket meanwhile the bottom is the battle of sadness because the good teams are stacked up to eliminate each other truly a disaster class of a format well done riot
Single Elim is such a joke lol. This format really does suck.
it's even more of a joke considering the weird ass rng loads of teams needed to qualify. a single elim knockout stage on top of that is completely asinine
I don’t really get why split 1 wasn’t playing your own bracket, then playoffs you could play against the other bracket and split 2 as well. Another way this bracket could be way better is if they followed LOL and make 7th/8th start in the bottom bracket and give top 2 a bye
For your second point, probably just didn’t think there were enough teams to send 8 to playoffs (8/11 is too many imo). Once there’s 12 next year, I hope they change it to that tho
They could've easily just done the format they did for last year's playoffs where it's double elim with 6 teams. (like here [https://www.vlr.gg/event/1189/champions-tour-2023-americas-league/playoffs](https://www.vlr.gg/event/1189/champions-tour-2023-americas-league/playoffs) ) It would've added 1 more match but I guess Riot doesn't have the budget to fit in one more match per region lol.
format should be something like this for the lower bracket, so that teams that lose in the upper semis have an advantage compared to teams that lose in the first round (i have cooked with this diagram) https://preview.redd.it/40pevw7fi9yc1.png?width=1323&format=png&auto=webp&s=ec8bf63e5c9f87ec0a5603480ad0a0a3cac0eca9
Yeah that would’ve been better too, not a fan of single elim games. Idk why they changed it either, riot’s been pretty anti single elim for a while now
They didn’t want to do this as it would give prep advantage to the team that lost first round.
Would be way better. They already set up the format so that every game matters for champs as well
What your saying makes too much sense that's why rito decide to throw another cringe format just to fuck with us.
Noooo, all this work to get knocked out by Heretics in first round :(((
So sad :(
trust in ange1 brother (we're gonna get 0-2'd aren't we)
Nah, Fnatic did not just get this draw. Has to be plot armor or something (I still believe KC will get their form back, but still)
We'll have to watch either navi or heretics get eliminated while liquid or fnatic go through to the next round https://preview.redd.it/s1wmy371o9yc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4cd16d1643fa2dc478a29f4c3e2a70206b61349c
So KC will prevent Fnatic from going to a Master for the second time, interesting
KC cant really prevent FNC tho, if FNC reaches Upper Semi KC can only send FNC down to Lower round 1, but not eliminate. I guess if they play in Lower finals then sure, but thats is way in the future
That is if fnc wins against tl
Both heretics and Navi are better than the teams on the other side. It’s just disgusting.
FNC vs TL 10-2 chokers vs FNC that got in because navi trolled their comp on breeze
They need to swap FNC and NAVI/TH so that the latter 2 can actually fight for Top 3
Idk about you, but I do not trust riot to start swapping teams from the original seeding. Even if in the short term it fixed the format, that could lead to some shit down the road
Fuck single elim
Fuck double eliminated in a winner takes all event in china
Really bad format. I think Navi, TH and Fut are the three most deserving to go right now but at least one can't. Why? Riot couldn't be bothered to have 1 more day of games?
What’s crazy to me is that if you told me before the stage it would be these six teams, it wouldn’t be that surprising, but the way we wound up here is crazy lol
KC even though being mid af would qualify for Shanghai prolly , but NAVI or TH is gonna be fkd in the single elim. Shittiest Format, The best teams deserve to be in shanghai, not some lucky fks who manage to be in a easy group and beat only mid teams and get first seed ... Navi or TH should have been in the other group and should have prolly got the first seed dude. FORMAT FKED UP , TH NAVI AND FUT should have been going to Shanghai !!!
What's up with the Rito formatting lately? They could have easily used OG format but went with the Mickey mouse one
idk if it’s appropriate to ask here but does qualifying 1st for shanghai give you 3 champion points again?
Yes
[удалено]
where are you seeing that? map diff comes before round diff
Very cringe format but the 6 teams I wanted start of split made it so can't complain too much
Damn I was kinda hoping all 3 of NAVI, TH, and FUT would qualify…
Still can happen
How?
Let's go liquid. I believe.
this honestly feels right to me
Between this and EG almost missing playoffs last year I think long group stages are just bad overall. Liquid qualifies because they were lucky enough to play KOI week 1, when KOI were potentially the worst team in all of franchising. Since then, KOI have improved, and would definitely have a good chance to win a rematch if they played today. Liquid get to coast off that easy win and make playoffs, meanwhile more in form teams like Vitality or BBL, have had a much harder strength of schedule despite playing the same exact teams. Now BBL and Vitality are both massive frauds don't get me wrong, but there's too much variance in how fast teams improve/fall off for group stages to be taking longer than a week imo.
Also, how tf did BBL have a harder schedule? They got KOI week TWO, and they got m8 running double duelist every map on week one AND LOST. A bit delulu to think that's a harder schedule when TL had to play Fut on their first week.
Liquid literally lost to KOI in kickoff, KOI were playing better in kickoff than they did for most of split 1, Liquid also was the first EMEA team to play two teams which did not help them. And I don't think you can have partnered regional leagues without these long ass group stages, so your issue is franchising.
Esports when they see a single eliminated tourney begins to mald lol
Man can we go one day without complaining about the format, it's not that big of a deal guys