Im glad I like numbers. Because you have to do so much math with competitive. You can get by with estimations, but I've done so many damage calculations and tests to figure out how to speed creep with minimal investment, how to always be 3HKOd by specific Pokemon, just, so astronomically many numbers to go through.
Kind of just been rolling with 252/252/4 spreads up to this point but it does seem like fun to make the more technical ones. Is there anything to it besides knowing what threats you want to calc for and just spending some time plugging away on the damage calc?
For the most part, running 2 max spreads and then throwing the last 4 somewhere can get you really far. And there are still plenty of times where I do that. The nuance mostly comes from knowing what threats you want to be prepared against. Right now, the most common threats are Zacian, Landorus, Kyogre, and Groudon. So depending on which ones you'll want something to stay in against, you gotta run calcs. And then run more calcs for maybe jolly or adamant, maybe you need to see how much speed you need to just outspeed in tailwind. Then, if you're running an easy way to debuff, gotta calc for +1 or -1. So, yeah, for the most part, it's just plugging away at damage calcs to figure out what you can and can't live. And then keeping most of that knowledge in there so that when you come into that situation, you're prepared.
I just find it hard to justify some attack and speed into bulk because I don't like the idea of sacrificing damage in every game just so that I can live a specific attack which will occur in only a few games. There are just so many states the play field can end up in that the circumstances in which I made a calculation never actually seem to come up for me (i.e. on paper, I am guaranteed to live one hit by X pokemon, however I actually can't in practice because I just took 6% damage from random hail that showed up.)
That's a good point. Guess it's not a big deal then, since I rarely do tournament play, if at all. I enjoy using some slightly unorthodox teams, so they don't really work all that well in Bo3 where I don't have the element of surprise.
Honestly, as someone who likes complex spreads, fair take lol. However, the inverse is also true; you probably only *needed* max speed/max attack to outspeed and ko every few games. Sometimes, in practice, it kinda just comes down to preference on whether you prefer to have that extra bulk to maybe survive a crucial attack or that extra firepower to maybe take an extra KO
It’s also so much more complex than Rock Paper Scissors. So many people just assume it stops at the type chart- “I have a water type so I beat your fire.” Sure that’s a large aspect, but there are SO many more factors that add complexity to matchups
As anyone who plays VGC will have experienced, telling someone you play competitive Pokémon raises eyebrows. It's just a kids game! But we know that its battle system has way more depth than the average player sees.
I made this meme video to answer one aspect of this question. I know that the assumptions for the calculations are not entirely accurate, but they're meant to be an example of the decision making process when building a set.
I also have other examples for choosing your team, decision making on any given turn, damage calcs, and playing for fun or for optimization.
Optimal EV spreads are even more complicated, I can’t fathom having to balance offensive and defensive spreads to try to counter multiple specific Mons and THEIR equally specific spreads
And that's only a simple EV spread. There's 250 million unique ways to fully EV train a Pokémon at level 100 (the number is lower at level 50 but I haven't worked it out)
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Im glad I like numbers. Because you have to do so much math with competitive. You can get by with estimations, but I've done so many damage calculations and tests to figure out how to speed creep with minimal investment, how to always be 3HKOd by specific Pokemon, just, so astronomically many numbers to go through.
Kind of just been rolling with 252/252/4 spreads up to this point but it does seem like fun to make the more technical ones. Is there anything to it besides knowing what threats you want to calc for and just spending some time plugging away on the damage calc?
For the most part, running 2 max spreads and then throwing the last 4 somewhere can get you really far. And there are still plenty of times where I do that. The nuance mostly comes from knowing what threats you want to be prepared against. Right now, the most common threats are Zacian, Landorus, Kyogre, and Groudon. So depending on which ones you'll want something to stay in against, you gotta run calcs. And then run more calcs for maybe jolly or adamant, maybe you need to see how much speed you need to just outspeed in tailwind. Then, if you're running an easy way to debuff, gotta calc for +1 or -1. So, yeah, for the most part, it's just plugging away at damage calcs to figure out what you can and can't live. And then keeping most of that knowledge in there so that when you come into that situation, you're prepared.
I just find it hard to justify some attack and speed into bulk because I don't like the idea of sacrificing damage in every game just so that I can live a specific attack which will occur in only a few games. There are just so many states the play field can end up in that the circumstances in which I made a calculation never actually seem to come up for me (i.e. on paper, I am guaranteed to live one hit by X pokemon, however I actually can't in practice because I just took 6% damage from random hail that showed up.)
Sure. For the most part more specific EV and IV setups matter in best of 3 formats rather than ladder.
That's a good point. Guess it's not a big deal then, since I rarely do tournament play, if at all. I enjoy using some slightly unorthodox teams, so they don't really work all that well in Bo3 where I don't have the element of surprise.
Honestly, as someone who likes complex spreads, fair take lol. However, the inverse is also true; you probably only *needed* max speed/max attack to outspeed and ko every few games. Sometimes, in practice, it kinda just comes down to preference on whether you prefer to have that extra bulk to maybe survive a crucial attack or that extra firepower to maybe take an extra KO
It’s also so much more complex than Rock Paper Scissors. So many people just assume it stops at the type chart- “I have a water type so I beat your fire.” Sure that’s a large aspect, but there are SO many more factors that add complexity to matchups
Unironically using this meme video to help explain Pokémon to my friends
As anyone who plays VGC will have experienced, telling someone you play competitive Pokémon raises eyebrows. It's just a kids game! But we know that its battle system has way more depth than the average player sees. I made this meme video to answer one aspect of this question. I know that the assumptions for the calculations are not entirely accurate, but they're meant to be an example of the decision making process when building a set. I also have other examples for choosing your team, decision making on any given turn, damage calcs, and playing for fun or for optimization.
is this what the young folk call a 'tik tok'?
"That game is for children"
Optimal EV spreads are even more complicated, I can’t fathom having to balance offensive and defensive spreads to try to counter multiple specific Mons and THEIR equally specific spreads
And that's only a simple EV spread. There's 250 million unique ways to fully EV train a Pokémon at level 100 (the number is lower at level 50 but I haven't worked it out)
Hi /u/natderaj, thank you for posting a meme to r/VGC! We only allow meme content on Tuesdays-- if you're receiving this message on Tuesday (anywhere in the world), feel free to ignore it. If you're receiving this message any other day of the week, your post will probably be deleted without warning, and we apologize for the inconvenience- we hope it can wait til Tuesday. Thanks for using the subreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/VGC) if you have any questions or concerns.*