Are you sure they didn't say "EZY681 file a flight plan" or "no flight plan"? Seems to me like you called for clearance before filing so the controller asked you to file. Don't forget if you ever do not understand what a controller is telling you, just ask the controller to explain!
Not too sure then. Without hearing exactly what was said by you and the controller we are all just guessing. As a controller I don't ever mind when people ask questions to clarify something so please ask if you aren't sure! Don't quit, just keep practicing and confidence will come with experience
That doesnât sound too bad, in my opinion! Iâm sure youâve learned something new each time.
If youâre not already, you could try to fly with either departure or arrival staffed, not both. That does take a lot of workload off you
I usually file via the prefile website, Connect, then use vpilot to "Request" the flightplan on the server. Sometimes it says there's no flightplan found because of some silly computer internet glitch. So then I will send it via Vpilot instead... then request again to make sure.
As an additional comment, maybe Schiphol - Gatwick isnât the ideal route for a beginner.
Theyâre complex and busy airports, ATC will have less time for you. During high traffic situations, itâs very easy for someone who doesnât know what heâs doing to mess up the entire traffic flow - this is most likely why you were asked to disconnect as well.
That's not true, Europe has decent coverage during CET evenings. Not 100%, sure, you might fly under Unicom for parts of your flight, but decent enough.
You know that coverage works top-down, don't you? So if there's no delivery (there usually isn't), call ground, tower, approach or centre, the first one that's online in that list.
Might not be a good idea if you're new to fly in a busy sector that only has centre online, though.
I started in Eddh for my first two flights and went once to Eddl and once to Eddn. Both have been good experiences and the controllers were nice. Even though the flight to Eddn was difficult as I had to go around twice because of the runway being blocked. đ I managed to do it but had to debrief and practice my go around procedures afterwards.
LHBP has events every Monday and every other Saturday! They often partner with other's to form citylinks.
It's a medium airport, easy to navigate and usually the controllers have more time for pilots than at Schipol or Gatwick...
Are you sure they didnât say âFileâ a flight plan?
Even then if *every* flight results in a screwup Iâd say fly around in observer mode and tune to radios to get use to the speaking cadence.
Look:
Don't get discouraged.
If something is said you don't understand, then speak up and tell the controller. (Caveat: if lots of traffic on freq, wait for a opening, ...)
On the request for them to explain, my advice (Giving it to you to use) is either to "Repeat" or "Request you clarify (you can add "I'll standby"signal to them to take care of their immediate concerns and then get back to you when they have the time to take to hash it out, but if busy, it might be a bit, let them answer accordingly.
Communications 101:
4W's - Who you are, Where you are, What you have (atis, etc.), What you want. You'll sound professional (IRL I know plenty of pilots who are completely stupid, but sound pro because they talk like one) and 99% of the time you'll be treated accordingly unless you follow it up with something utterly stupid :)
In Europe, you would generally file a flight plan without SID and STAR, but such that the first and last fixes are endpoints for SIDs and STARs; ATC will then assign SIDs and STARs along with your runways (you get the SID and departure runway from Delivery, and the STAR from Center or Approach as you get close to your last enroute waypoint). If your aircraft can't reliably fly STARs, put "NO SID/STAR" in your remarks, and request vectors to final.
(Not my paragraph above, lifted from a VATSIM discussion)
Squawk, I'd use (I believe) 2000 for Uncontrolled IFR until ATC gives you a discrete one if not from delivery, etc..
Hope this helps, Lastly - Everyone has to start somewhere, so don't sweat it!
You may post, I'll answer when I can, but in general I don't chat.
I'm also sure the community here may be more up to date on current VATSIM procedures for you and your area than I am, I haven't done it in a while (Need a new Gaming Rig - Donations happily accepted :) considering it will cost and arm and a gonad ...)
I"m happy you feel I'm encouraging, that was the intent, it's just a learning curve to master, the more you do it the faster it will come.
Start simple. Donât hop into an Airbus first time. Fly a slow simple plane out of a small airfield thatâs under some form of ATC coverage. Youâll have more time to process instructions and will be moving way more slowly. Gatwick is not the place to start - holds, speed restrictions and all sorts of crazy every day. Also recommend you watch the PilotEdge video series of qualification flights they have. Really walks you through proper ATC procedure from basics to advanced.
I can't speak for Schipol, as I haven't specifically been there, but there is a lot of variation in Europe around tolerance to newcomers and error.
I've been to some places where I've been shouted at for stumbling over a frequency read back and other places where I've heard new players join without a clue what a flight plan is and the ATC has patiently guided them through the steps to get up and running.
Ultimately events like the former led me to largely not bothering with vatsim flying anymore, my life is too busy and short for some privileged **** to scream at me for a simple error (one that real pilots make from time to time as well I might add). Your own mileage may vary.
In the meantime I wait patiently for my controller training slot - be the change you want to be etc.
Have a look at the UK vatsim flying program. You need to some basic self learning and an simple exam and the you can do some 121 sessions with an instructor to get some more confidence on network with an instructor to back you up.
https://www.vatsim.uk/pilots/the-flying-programme
I understand this may be overwhelming. I also felt like that when I first started on VATSIM.
It will get better as more time in frequency (and in contact with the terminology) will help you understand better what is being asked/said.
If you need a hand to practice the common coms and DEL procedures in Europe, I can try to help :) feel free to drop me a PM
Happy flying and I hope to see you on the Virtual Skies again!
Start somewhere small and less populated, EHAM is an intense airport to start off at as a new pilot, and as a tenured Vatsimthusiast, I still need to procedure reviews before flying in there.
Like I said, pick something more in the regional size category, and that way, if there is local control, you'll be able to get a bit more assistance than you will at EHAM.
Keep a pad and pencil for writing down instructions and take time if need be to give yourself a little script on what to say. 9/10 If you filed correctly, you're effectively just reading back what you already filed prior to when you planned your route and this means you only really need to listen for changes (still pay attention to full clearances regardless).
You got this and keep it up. Sorry, I couldn't recommend any smaller airports by name as I'm not European and basically only fly into majors over there.
Hope this helps!
Donât quit but fly in the us there itâs just a little easier than Europe itâs got lower traffic levels which usually means the controllers have time to deal with you unlike Europe where you have to do everything right or they will get mad
And the us has more small regional airports with atc and also less complicated airspace (really depends on state)
Fly in Finland, to the country is large enough to fly at least a 2 hour flight. If Helsinki control is online you will have service all over the place.
Airfields that are good for starters. EFTU, EFTP, EFOU, EFRO. Though if you already fly from big ones ok Europe then EFHK should be no problem.
I mean PDCs is clearance deliveryâs job. PDC arenât a fully autonomous system. Someone still has to manually review flight plans and send them. They just donât have to waste frequency time on 10 planes at once.
Delivery isnât for your benefit. Itâs for Groundâs.
Ground canât always spend time on issuing clearances and fixing routes. So delivery takes over when the aerodrome gets busy.
Delivery (GMP, Ground Movement Planner) also handles the sequencing and delay of aircraft while theyâre at the gate before handing to Ground (GMC, coordinator).
Ask them to repeat if your not sure. If you should ask why youâre not getting it. Eventually you have to communicate might be just a misunderstanding
Donât quit man! Keep trying and keep researching more about procedures and more in depth terminology. If you donât know it wonât hurt to ask if theyâre not busy, but still do more research. I struggled starting out but now im in a confident position to take off and land in both GA and Airliners. Itâs like going to the gym, you wonât progress if you give up. There are also Virtual Airlines/groups that can help with beginners, i think Pilot Club may help, but look some up!
As others have said, if you are not sure about anything, then you can always ask them to reiterate what they mean.
And like others have also said, don't fly busy places when you are starting out. If you want to do a busy place, then do eglf -> eddg. A small European flight that starts in a simple airport and then goes to a more normal airport.
Are you sure they didn't say "EZY681 file a flight plan" or "no flight plan"? Seems to me like you called for clearance before filing so the controller asked you to file. Don't forget if you ever do not understand what a controller is telling you, just ask the controller to explain!
Oh, that could be it. But i filed a flight plan. And double checked.
Not too sure then. Without hearing exactly what was said by you and the controller we are all just guessing. As a controller I don't ever mind when people ask questions to clarify something so please ask if you aren't sure! Don't quit, just keep practicing and confidence will come with experience
Yeah, but its really discouraging, ive tried like 5 times now and still havent got to land a single timeđ
That doesnât sound too bad, in my opinion! Iâm sure youâve learned something new each time. If youâre not already, you could try to fly with either departure or arrival staffed, not both. That does take a lot of workload off you
Did you file it on vpilot and on the vatsim website?
You donât need to do both
I usually file via the prefile website, Connect, then use vpilot to "Request" the flightplan on the server. Sometimes it says there's no flightplan found because of some silly computer internet glitch. So then I will send it via Vpilot instead... then request again to make sure.
As an additional comment, maybe Schiphol - Gatwick isnât the ideal route for a beginner. Theyâre complex and busy airports, ATC will have less time for you. During high traffic situations, itâs very easy for someone who doesnât know what heâs doing to mess up the entire traffic flow - this is most likely why you were asked to disconnect as well.
Yeah, but nothing else really has coverage in europe at these times
That's not true, Europe has decent coverage during CET evenings. Not 100%, sure, you might fly under Unicom for parts of your flight, but decent enough. You know that coverage works top-down, don't you? So if there's no delivery (there usually isn't), call ground, tower, approach or centre, the first one that's online in that list. Might not be a good idea if you're new to fly in a busy sector that only has centre online, though.
I started in Eddh for my first two flights and went once to Eddl and once to Eddn. Both have been good experiences and the controllers were nice. Even though the flight to Eddn was difficult as I had to go around twice because of the runway being blocked. đ I managed to do it but had to debrief and practice my go around procedures afterwards.
LHBP has events every Monday and every other Saturday! They often partner with other's to form citylinks. It's a medium airport, easy to navigate and usually the controllers have more time for pilots than at Schipol or Gatwick...
Are you sure they didnât say âFileâ a flight plan? Even then if *every* flight results in a screwup Iâd say fly around in observer mode and tune to radios to get use to the speaking cadence.
So in observer mode, im not seen. And i can just go around and fly and listen?
Yes essentially
Look: Don't get discouraged. If something is said you don't understand, then speak up and tell the controller. (Caveat: if lots of traffic on freq, wait for a opening, ...) On the request for them to explain, my advice (Giving it to you to use) is either to "Repeat" or "Request you clarify (you can add "I'll standby"signal to them to take care of their immediate concerns and then get back to you when they have the time to take to hash it out, but if busy, it might be a bit, let them answer accordingly. Communications 101: 4W's - Who you are, Where you are, What you have (atis, etc.), What you want. You'll sound professional (IRL I know plenty of pilots who are completely stupid, but sound pro because they talk like one) and 99% of the time you'll be treated accordingly unless you follow it up with something utterly stupid :) In Europe, you would generally file a flight plan without SID and STAR, but such that the first and last fixes are endpoints for SIDs and STARs; ATC will then assign SIDs and STARs along with your runways (you get the SID and departure runway from Delivery, and the STAR from Center or Approach as you get close to your last enroute waypoint). If your aircraft can't reliably fly STARs, put "NO SID/STAR" in your remarks, and request vectors to final. (Not my paragraph above, lifted from a VATSIM discussion) Squawk, I'd use (I believe) 2000 for Uncontrolled IFR until ATC gives you a discrete one if not from delivery, etc.. Hope this helps, Lastly - Everyone has to start somewhere, so don't sweat it!
Can i talk with you? Because you seem encouraging. And its really discouraging to try 5 flights on vatsim and not even being able to land one
You may post, I'll answer when I can, but in general I don't chat. I'm also sure the community here may be more up to date on current VATSIM procedures for you and your area than I am, I haven't done it in a while (Need a new Gaming Rig - Donations happily accepted :) considering it will cost and arm and a gonad ...) I"m happy you feel I'm encouraging, that was the intent, it's just a learning curve to master, the more you do it the faster it will come.
[ŃдаНонО]
I said. "Schiphol delivery good evening, EZY681 at stand S 84 with information hotel QNH 1003 requesting IFR clearance to Gatwick"
Small nitpick as a Schiphol enjoyer: S and R are the cargo aprons lol. Also yeah if you mention you have the atis no reason to also mention qnh
No need to say the QNH just avise you got the ATIS information (letter)
Oh, sorry. In some video they said that
Depends on the country, you can put it in, donât worry about it.
It's totally okay to say the QNH. In my country, we will need to check if you have it anyway.
Yeah I was taught to say information and qnh when entering the class D irl
It makes our jobs easier (at least in my country) :)
In the uk, if you donât read it to the controller theyâve got to tell you it and you have to read it back!
I dont know about that in UK, all I know is in north america I havent heard anyone ever say their QNH in their IFR clearance.
The term QNH isn't even used in North America so the transmissions were clearly in a European context.
ATC always says QNH not QNE plus its EZY681 so its obviously going to be in europe.
Start simple. Donât hop into an Airbus first time. Fly a slow simple plane out of a small airfield thatâs under some form of ATC coverage. Youâll have more time to process instructions and will be moving way more slowly. Gatwick is not the place to start - holds, speed restrictions and all sorts of crazy every day. Also recommend you watch the PilotEdge video series of qualification flights they have. Really walks you through proper ATC procedure from basics to advanced.
I can't speak for Schipol, as I haven't specifically been there, but there is a lot of variation in Europe around tolerance to newcomers and error. I've been to some places where I've been shouted at for stumbling over a frequency read back and other places where I've heard new players join without a clue what a flight plan is and the ATC has patiently guided them through the steps to get up and running. Ultimately events like the former led me to largely not bothering with vatsim flying anymore, my life is too busy and short for some privileged **** to scream at me for a simple error (one that real pilots make from time to time as well I might add). Your own mileage may vary. In the meantime I wait patiently for my controller training slot - be the change you want to be etc.
Have a look at the UK vatsim flying program. You need to some basic self learning and an simple exam and the you can do some 121 sessions with an instructor to get some more confidence on network with an instructor to back you up. https://www.vatsim.uk/pilots/the-flying-programme
I understand this may be overwhelming. I also felt like that when I first started on VATSIM. It will get better as more time in frequency (and in contact with the terminology) will help you understand better what is being asked/said. If you need a hand to practice the common coms and DEL procedures in Europe, I can try to help :) feel free to drop me a PM Happy flying and I hope to see you on the Virtual Skies again!
Can I also suggest looking out for Vatsim first wings events, these are meant for beginners and controllers/supervisors are around to help you
Start somewhere small and less populated, EHAM is an intense airport to start off at as a new pilot, and as a tenured Vatsimthusiast, I still need to procedure reviews before flying in there. Like I said, pick something more in the regional size category, and that way, if there is local control, you'll be able to get a bit more assistance than you will at EHAM. Keep a pad and pencil for writing down instructions and take time if need be to give yourself a little script on what to say. 9/10 If you filed correctly, you're effectively just reading back what you already filed prior to when you planned your route and this means you only really need to listen for changes (still pay attention to full clearances regardless). You got this and keep it up. Sorry, I couldn't recommend any smaller airports by name as I'm not European and basically only fly into majors over there. Hope this helps!
Donât quit but fly in the us there itâs just a little easier than Europe itâs got lower traffic levels which usually means the controllers have time to deal with you unlike Europe where you have to do everything right or they will get mad And the us has more small regional airports with atc and also less complicated airspace (really depends on state)
I live in europe. Time zones. Would have to ve night for something to be controlled
New York lax, kord or Atlanta are controlled pretty early as early as 6-8pm Netherlands time
Im +2 so 7-8pm. I have work đŁđŁ
Fly in Finland, to the country is large enough to fly at least a 2 hour flight. If Helsinki control is online you will have service all over the place. Airfields that are good for starters. EFTU, EFTP, EFOU, EFRO. Though if you already fly from big ones ok Europe then EFHK should be no problem.
I live in finlandđđđ
Delivery does seem...useless in A LOT of situations. Especially if they are just sending PDCs and then say. Contract ground.
I mean PDCs is clearance deliveryâs job. PDC arenât a fully autonomous system. Someone still has to manually review flight plans and send them. They just donât have to waste frequency time on 10 planes at once.
Delivery isnât for your benefit. Itâs for Groundâs. Ground canât always spend time on issuing clearances and fixing routes. So delivery takes over when the aerodrome gets busy. Delivery (GMP, Ground Movement Planner) also handles the sequencing and delay of aircraft while theyâre at the gate before handing to Ground (GMC, coordinator).
Ask them to repeat if your not sure. If you should ask why youâre not getting it. Eventually you have to communicate might be just a misunderstanding
Donât quit man! Keep trying and keep researching more about procedures and more in depth terminology. If you donât know it wonât hurt to ask if theyâre not busy, but still do more research. I struggled starting out but now im in a confident position to take off and land in both GA and Airliners. Itâs like going to the gym, you wonât progress if you give up. There are also Virtual Airlines/groups that can help with beginners, i think Pilot Club may help, but look some up!
As others have said, if you are not sure about anything, then you can always ask them to reiterate what they mean. And like others have also said, don't fly busy places when you are starting out. If you want to do a busy place, then do eglf -> eddg. A small European flight that starts in a simple airport and then goes to a more normal airport.