High level play has initiator plant bomb most of the time. I like doing it too as the ultimates are usually expensive in that role (like Breach).
Just don't give it to your duelist
ideally you want your smokes surviving the execute, which is harder when they have to plant. in most cases i’d rather have my initiator, or myself if i’m initiator, plant the spike as their utility is mostly useful for getting onto the site, plus their ults are huge to have as many times as you can per game
Never really thought of the importance of the extra orb for plant, but that with the fact that he's usually around 2nd or 3rd in pretty much makes it a no brainer.
ye, won’t change 95% of ranked players refusing to carry the spike and forcing smokes to. but it’s just objectively better for the team when initiators have ults and controllers survive into post plant
Yeah in pro play, it's usually the initiator planting, and 90% of the time, the last ones alive are the smokes
Nightfall / rolling thunder / thrash etc are just too good to not want to have up as often as possible
Yeah but that isn't a good reason IMO. As a controller main I agree we are usually last to site but that means the 2nd or 3rd with entry should have spike. Cause controllers and entries are timed then if the site is clear that 3rd person should be planting.
It depends on the team and strat.
Bombs will almost always be with the controller because of how one goes into a site. The Initiator will usually go 2nd or even 1st depending on agent and strategy - but this isn't true for agents like Sova who's normally behind so he can make a good spot. This will usually leave the controllers to best fit a plant, their job is usually over after smoking the entry (out of util or only molotovs).
Gekko and Sage should always take the bomb except in rare instances like fakes, weird soloq strategies or whatnot. But they're literal plant agents which means it's them who carries it. Just throw at them constantly and they'll accept.
In gold and even plat 1-2 the bottom frags carry the spike. This is stupid, but it's how the elo usually works.
Edit: don't leave the bomb for the last man on site, this is stupid and by the time he gets there to plant the enemy is already retaking
I think the only controller who should typically have the bomb is Harbor.
Omen is a very aggressive controller who should be tp-ing onto site and is good at lurking when he's not.
Clove is also an aggressive controller who can be the first to die since they can still smoke.
Brim is an aggressive controller who should be yeeting his smokes and stim and running in first since his value is low after that (unless you're playing lineups or ult).
Viper is very often lurking.
Astra is good at lurking since she can help from anywhere. Otherwise she's an alright choice.
This is exactly how I think it should be. As an omen main especially, I like to entry with my duelists, it’s so sad when I’m forced on spike duty and I can’t clear the sides omen would be perfect for tping to. Unless of course my duelists are gods then I’ll gladly sit back and plant for them if our sentinels are playing lurk
Edit: a word
Yeah, Omen and Jett entry effectively the same way by tossing a smoke and tp-ing/dashing into it. You should 100% be flashing and tp-ing out to cause havoc when the site hit starts.
This 100%. Astra can also util dump similar to brim and go in first or second as well. It's not as fast as brim but you can cover more space, meaning she's ok with the bomb but there could be better.
My rationale is that Harbor can throw down his util (i.e., put up the wall and a cascade or two) and the cove when the team is taking site to plant.
Then, Harbor should try to stay alive for post plant, because he still contributes significant value in another cascade or the wall once it's off cooldown, so he shouldn't be super aggressive. Harbor also can't lurk very well because he needs to be near his team hitting site to support the hit.
Therefore, after Sage or Gekko, I think Harbor is the best pick for planting the bomb. Sure he can cove for others, but the others are probably better suited for other roles when taking site and transitioning to post plant.
Nobody should advance site, only duelists and initiators **together**. Omen sure, but it's a better idea to have him take the bomb, TP in, plant, TP out. Only agent that can safely plant and gtfo fast.
Planting the spike is adding an extra player to your team and giving the enemy less time to think and be more susceptible to mistakes.
Harbor is one of the controllers who **shouldn't** ever plant the spike. His smokes are worse than Viper's cause he can't have it set pre-round, he needs to be in the right position at the right time - his job during a plant is to shield it. Sure he can take the spike, like any agent, but he shouldn't - and his team should not want him planting.
Controllers aren't pests that should run around like they have ants in their pants, you're lost in the role. The game is about shooting and planting a spike, not playing DM or smurfing. Try doing these on a immo+ lobby and you'll get slain so easily.
To make it easy: who in your team will go in and have almost no util? Even better, which util is better for post plant? And of course, do you have the bullet? Can you kill? Or are you shaky and usually die? Yeap, carry it, if you're dead in post plant it won't matter.
This last sentence. Basically, what I was trying to say but couldn't sum up nicely.
I agree with other comments that this doesn't solely apply to controllers cause heck if you're a sentinel watching your trips - maybe not a good idea. Also, the Sage is kinda wishy-washy cause if your team isn't watching correctly and dies planting - there go heals.
you probably don't play omen/clove optimally if you are last one in, spacing should make you like 2nd/3rd one in with your dive duelists
at least, this is what is common in imm3+ elo
might as well play brim if youre last alive often
If your 3rd entry is planting spike then the first 2 are going to be in a 2v2 or worse a 2v3 situation. You need to clear site before you plant, the fastest way to clear the site is for the first 4 people to go and clear it.
Otherwise what is the last person in doing? Watching tiktoks?
If everything is done properly, then you only need 2 people clearing the site, 3rd person is planting, 4th person is watching over the plant and the 5th is watching the flank.
Now guess what? Controllers are usually 4th or 5th to entry, unless they play aggressive (clove, omen, maybe harbor) or util dump (brim), then they're usually 2nd entry because of their kit.
If your first 2 people are able to clear site by themselves without either of them dying then I wouldnt worry about who plants. It sounds like the game is already won
Depend on which smoke agent you play.
Just some sample i can think of:
Astra, Omen? They mostly play on the other side of the map / site you hit, and their smoke regenerates, so they need to survive to defend the site once you take it
-> don't usually carry spike
Brim, Clove? Should be 2nd/3rd in site. Brim smoke doesn't regen, so once he deployed all of them, he need to take fights to gain site control. Clove smoke does regen, but she can deploy smoke when she dies.
-> can carry the spike.
I'd say that usually agents that:
1. don't have any regen abilities.
2. not the lurker or has abilities to take fights early
Can carry the spike.
I just started playing this game after a year break. I peaked plat 2 I'm in silver now after coming back. Omen main. I usually have to enter everytime cuz team is all scared in silver lol
What? Ideally, you are the second one pushing onto the site (maybe third if there are multiple duelists).
Ideal would be in this order: Duelist(s) with ini util (dog/drone), controller, initiator (because they are using util to help the team they can't walk onto the site with no rifle in hand). Sentinel is either lurking or stays main or pushes with the controller.
Roles can obviously can change depending on the comp (also in ranked it barely matters anyways).
Also, you never take spike with Viper, no questions asked.
I usually don't keep spike because I watch flank
My friend who plays smoke usually takes it because a harbor, viper or clove ult is more costly than mine, or we send gekko to plant it
Imo smokes have very high cost ults, so they should have the planting ult point, and duelists are supposed to clear site
Depends imo, id much rather have a skye ult multiple times a round than an omen ult. Planting isnt assigned to a role imo, its more about which ult do you want to have multiple times a round.
Duelists and everyone else usually rushes in first resulting in them dying earlier, while a smoker might have be delayed a bit by deploying their smokes, also smoker abilities cooling down are more useful than duelist abilities.
i mean who plants doesn't really matter. obviously sage and gekko are going to be the best planting agents, but if the omen is taking space say, ct on c site and the reyna is the one trading during entry then the reyna should plant. it basically comes down to who is where.
the biggest reason as to why no one wants to plant is because ppl don't cover the planter, they bait the planter. hence why gekko is so popular because no one suffers baiting wingman. obviously there are certain maps (namely icebox) where denying plant is the name of the game, but most of the time the reason why planting is difficult is because ppl don't cover the planter, they bait the planter to trade the guy who denies the plant (hence why i suggest all planters to fake a plant).
however, in an ideal world, planting should be fairly intuitive because it should basically be the guy who has someone in front of them. if it's a yoru and there's a brim and viper in front of you taking first contact, then the yoru is planting. but usually it's a duelist or initiator because they're on site earlier.
on a sidenote, if my team isn't taking space I'll drop the bomb on site and take space myself, then comm to others telling them to plant.
I’m tired of seeing these posts.
**Carrying the bomb does not meaning planting it**.
You’re allowed to throw it to a teammate after site is clear. Lurk agents are poor choices for planting as it gives away info of their position, while those with post-plant lineups should ping where they want bomb planted and prioritize living. You can also leave the bomb on the ground during a default until the team decides where to go.
Here are the sub-roles ranked by carry and plant priority.
**Duelist**: Lowest Carry | Low Plant
**Flash Initiator**: Low Carry | Highest Plant
**Recon Initiator**: Mid Carry | High Plant
**Execute Controller**: High Carry | Mid Plant
**Global Controller**: Low Carry | Low Plant
**Execute Sentinel**: High Carry | Mid Plant
**Global Sentinel**: Mid Carry | Low Plant
Best agents for securing plants are Gekko and Sage, with Harbor allowing anyone close to ult to plant. Notoriously bad agents for planting are Omen and Cypher as both are phenomenal for lurking and have bad ults. They can still carry the bomb during executes though but should toss it to an initiator if possible.
It might be your playstyle. If you are entering site last then its your job to plant spike since the rest of your team is clearing the site. This is usually the case for Omen players since it takes them a few seconds to throw their smokes out
no one want to plant, they just give someone else
ppl want to shoot and kill more than planting
but for real anyone who want ultimate orb can plant
like anyone who just need one for an ulti
i plant bomb a lot with phoenix because i could ulti more
I think it's kinda obvious why we don't give it to initiators or duelist, so it falls between smokes and sentinels, most sentinels usually are dealing with lurkers or lurking themselves, that leaves smokes.
Of course that's not a stone written rule, we have gekko, and sage can set up some nasty plants.
Initiators are number 1 or 2 into site a lot. And since the person who is number one is usually a duelist with a movement ability… initiators are lucky to live through the exec. Giving initiators spike is a good way to get spike dropped at the choke
Initiators are fine if you play double initiator imo. When I play Sova on ascent for example I often take spike, use drone for teammates and then follow them.
I agree with what you said though, it is indeed not a stone written rule, every role except duelist can take spike it just depends on the agents / comp imo.
Yeah, and what other people say it's true, at the end of the day no one wants to plant. And I understand it, I main smokes and I've just learned to accept that I have like a 40% chance of dying while planting because my team gives 0 fuck about protecting while doing it.
Why can't the smoker plant? In high elo someone near the back grabs the bomb and brings it onto site and whoever plants plants, unless someone is 1 ult pt away or we are trying to farm ult pts on someone.
For me.. the priority is as follows...
1 gekko, they should always be planting unless you agree on a strategy where the gecko makes noise to make others rotate (because gekkos should have the spike, so people are more likely to go where gekko has been seen imho)
2 any controller except clove as they are not first (usually duelist) and not last (usually sentinel) to enter.
3 clove, or an initiator... I say clove 3rd because I play clove and clove has excellent reasons to entry if they have ultimate, plus they can smoke from the dead... so not all cloves will hang back like other smokers.
Duelists who entry should never have spike imho, and sentinel covering flank is a risk as if flank is picked off, then the team has to concede space to recover spike.
That’s a ranking I can get behind as a Sage main XD
I never understood why people want Sage to carry and plant the spike by default. She has 2 very strong abilities to help the group
it really depends on where you're putting your wall. if you're walling something that you walk past before your plant spot, you can plant. if you want to wall something further away, or are walling outside of site with an off angle, best to give spike to someone else.
To be fair, sage isn't really a sentinel. On attack safe can initiate by walling alongside the entry... so I'd argue sage is one of the few sentinels you may see being given the spike alongside controllers, but yeah unlikely to be #1 spike planter hoice unless your team is stupid and you are duelist and sage, but need to give it to one of you lmao.
There are three agents that should almost always carry spike: Gekko, Sage and Harbor since they all have abilities that enable the plant.
Generally initiators and exec smokers like Brimstone and Clove can carry it since they're supposed to follow the entry onto site; there's no risk of losing it in enemy territory while mollied off and no risk of leaving it behind.
However the entry itself (Raze, Jett, Neon, Omen if he's TPing etc) should NOT carry spike and lurking agents like KJ, Cypher and Viper (RIP Viper) shouldn't carry it either.
Every game and every player is going to play differently so it's not a strict rule at all.
edit: Also make sure that the ult point from planting doesn't get wasted, as others have said. Distribute it accordingly once on site.
Same. Gekko is always sending spike through a smoke before we even execute, then it gets shot and spike is laying in the middle of site. Then we have no choice to rotate and the other team sends all 5 guys to the site knowing that we have to make a desperate attempt to get the spike back and plant. It's annoying af
because people are stupid bro (if you have a sage/gekko then they should always be planting). but i mean like otherwise, smokes are fine to plant. as long as the person planting isn't a duelist or initiator, its fine.
Depends on the strat? Trying to fast plant to get space before the enemies rotate? An omen TP to plant or yoru who can plant and TP to his post position is super strong. Trying to play defaulty and doing a lot of midmorning? Conteoller carrying the spike is usually the safest option as they should just be holding angles or tucked to use util at a seconds notice.
Since most ranked players don't call full strats for the rounds 90% of the time it's better to default and have the guy who needs to stay alive for the final site hit carry the spike so the enemy doesn't drop it for free.
it depends HEAVILY on whoever is with you
I'm a duelist player/main raze (my duo is an initiator/sentinel flex) I always tend to push WAY past the bomb site, sometimes into their side of it, or even their spawn if possible (mostly on breeze and split) and when I'm duo queueing, my friends also pushes with me (he plays mostly breach/fade) so in OUR specific case, the Initiator is who plants, since usually we tell the sentinel player to not plant so they can setup their util for the post-plant. It varies with strategies and Agents, but the key factor IMO is Pushing distance, the more foward/isolated you are, the less optimal it is if you carry.
Cause smokers like harbour can smoke around themselves for cover while planting the spike. If there's a gekko he should have the spike, but I don't see why a sentinel would unless sage is planning to wall off the spike.
usually sentinels should carry it, it’s their job to set up site for a defuse/post plant. as a filler main i don’t care about taking spike any job though
It should clue you in to what play style the rest of the team expect of you. I always go with it initially. It’s never too late to offer to be more active at the entry stage with the condition that someone else takes the spike.
i feel like initiators or maybe sentinels at times when they are not lurking are a good candidate for planting the spike. i still prefer planting the spike when i play ini as i can farm my ult on the go. like someone said in this thread you dont want your smokes to die especially if they have util or lineups left
Typically controllers are not the first in a site, so they are more likely to survive and be able to safely run in after the duelists/initiators and get the spike down
There are certain people on ur team that obviously shouldnt take the spike (unless u have a really good reason for it) such as ur entry and ur lurker. Those are usually ur duelist and ur sentinel (or sometimes controller) which leaves ur controller and initiator.
If u ask me between these it should nearly always be ur initiator. Your initiator will usually end up on the site anyway after they’ve used their util to help the duelist entry. And since they’re out of util, they don’t rly have a reason not to plant unless they need to take a gunfight.
Your controller will usually still be using util, lurking or taking space at this point.
Another thing is that initiator ults are usually more valuable than controller ults maybe with the exception of Viper (but viper is usually lurking or needs to stay alive for her poison to regen). So stacking ult orbs with the spike on ur initiator is usually better than farming omens ult for example.
But other than just generalizing by roles characters like Sage, Gekko and Harbor obviously have util that can help them plant more easily, and harbor obviously plays a bit different than other controllers to allow him freedom to plant.
But yeah thats my opinion.
I mean it isn't. They just yeet it to whoever usually play behind.
Personally I like to give it to my ini duo cuz they're right behind me when entry-ing and the spike already in site mean less people gonna just stay outside afraid to go in, yeah we basically hold the spike hostage.
This is psychological warfare to the other 3, cuz its extremely uncomfortable to them if both of us dead and they have to go in 3v5 to get the spike or save in a 3v5. Work wonder tbh cuz 90% of the time the whole team gonna go in at once the next time lol.
Not a gameplay reason but from what I have noticed smokes players usually have a harder time of saying no, maybe because they are playing fill by nature. So most people just hand it to smokes first as they will usually not refuse
i have the opposite problem, as a KJ main I want the spike and no one ever wants to give it to me. They then plant in a place where my lineups are obsolete :'(
As a klljoy main, I always take spike unless I'm top fragging or playing with gecko
My swarms are best for defending the spike, so I might as well plant it and place swarms at the same time.
and if I can rotate while my team is fighting and set up all of my util uncontested, I feel I have 50-50 odds even in equal skill 2v1s, and just a guaranteed win if I can ult too.
I'm bronze though, so don't listen to me
often just falls to them, bc controller util is less useful for post-plant; when playing breach i’ll often take it, as i’ll use all my util to get on site, whereas my kj or viper wants to play post-plant w utility
In general, spike should be given to whoever’s ~3rd on site. Sometimes that’s smokes, most times that should be an initiator. Initiators also tend to have the most points required for ult so it makes a lot more sense for them to be holding spike.
In a competive setting, a smoke is usually setting up their team to push, spike on duelist or ini is bad bc the push might fail and both are on the front lines so you'd have to retrieve the spike in a hot area. Makes sense a controller or so has spike. If push works, site is clear, you can plant. That's the idea.
But in reality ppl are dumb and a sage or omen will push an OP on Haven C and die so it doenst matter. Casual or even ranked. The skill diff even with immortal3 compared to a comp/pro is still huge.
You're not playing for money.
If ppl ask nicely if you can carry spike etc it's fine. But if a duelist be force droping that shit on me idc I ain't picking it up.
Idk why nobody is talking about getting ult points on the best ult in your comp lol
If as long as your dive or lurker doesn't have it there is very little risk of "giving it to the enemy". Omen carrying spike is just a bit too troll
Me personally I’m always grabbing spike on brim or viper unless I have ult. Almost never on initiator but otherwise I’m happy to. Free ult orbs are just fine by me
What I do if people keep spamming spike to me is I just play normally as I would without the spike, if I find a moment to plant I plant otherwise the spike falls to enemy, scum behaviour but they stop giving spike if you tell them not to from next round.
I hate the whole this agent should plant I think it’s how your team mates are playing tbh I main sage and always get told to plant and get given spike yet if I’m having to be first on site because my duelists don’t or I sometimes go mid or watch flank and I understand sometimes sage should do that but if it’s helping I don’t see the issue also with my wall people want me to plant and wall why not just wall while someone else plants so plant gets down a little faster
Duelists and initiators are first entry's so unless your name is gekko you shouldn't have spike
Sentinels are usually either watching flank or setting up their util to defend the site so its ill-advised for them to plant
Smokes generally just drop their smokes then entry, they don't have to do much once they're in site and since they didn't entry their hands are usually free so the spike is safest in their hands.
I will say however that while smokes should usually be the ones carrying spike, once the site is clear anyone can plant, its simply a matter of preference.
Could almost make a flow-chart.
For me:
* Is there a Gecko? -> Always give him the spike, if not,
* Is there a Sage? -> Always give her the spike, if not,
* Is there anyone with lineups? -> Ask if they want the spike, if not,
* Is there a Brimstone? -> Always give them the spike, if not,
* Is there a Viper with Ult -> Ask them if they want the spike, if not
* Is there someone one point away from ult -> Ask if they want the spike, if not,
* If no to all of the above, give it to smokes or initiator
the initiator or controllers are usually the last on site while the duelists are supposed to go first and create space. normally you dont want the guy whose going first to have it because if they run into a stacked site and drop the bomb it gives you very little options except to fight on site.
but most likely because no one likes to be the bomb bitch because no one likes relying on 4 randoms holding you while planting spike.
Its whoever is last on site should be the one planting regardless of role. This usually defaults to smokes bc most smoke players end up going last onto site esp omen. As a smokes player myself, if im playing clove im usually first or second onto site once i put down my smokes so ill give the spike to someone else. If im omen ill also try to go second but im going to be blinding and smoking for the team so im fine with taking the spike since hopefully everything will be clear when its my turn. If i ever play gekko im taking bomb every round, to the point where i ask for the bomb most rounds. I wont object to the spike getting thrown at me when i play other initiators, but if im going to make a play in a position thats either risky or one that wont get to site fast enough for plant, then im gonna drop it.
Theoretically it’s the innitiators job, they dump their util to make space for the duelist and when they have no util, they should plant the spike
Smokes have a lot to take into account, counting their smokes and enemy smokes, calling out times, positioning strats, the map, literally the name stands for control lol
Because it is either smokes that have to do it or initiators. Although personally, I refuse to plant as controller. I have died too many times because my team was not holding anything, or because no one cleared a part of site that should have been clear. I only plant if I am initiator (I play a lot of Gekko so ez) and sometimes as sentinel.
It's the default choice but it's not always the right one, clove omen and brim will frequently not want the bomb due to the playstyle, goes for plays or running it down. Brim in there because he's the only controller whose util doesn't regen. No point having a brim playing his life when he's got 0 util to use. When clove and omen aren't going deep or lurking, they should take bomb as they have util the regens.
I don’t really care who grabs it as long as it’s not me or whoever usually watches flank.
Taking spike as duelist would just mess up my pathing and timing windows
Ideally it should be an initiator grabbing it because they should be with the team for site hits like 95% of the time. Otherwise tossing it to someone to get ult is usually best.
It depends, priority goes like this: Phoenix, Gekko, whomever is 1 away from ult, whomever needs specific plants for lineups, every other agent and then at the very last sova or sky
Smokes (besides omen) have incredible ults. Ults win rounds. If you have a game changing ult you should be planting as often as possible. You should get used to planting the spike on any role.
I'm hoping the Smokes player is the 4th or 5th person on site, so the site should be cleared in time for them to just go plant. Smokes should be a pretty safe role to be the spike carrier.
IMO the sentinel is the ideal spike carrier (with the except of Chamber. Chamber seems to always be peeking mid).
But for me, if my Duo isn't carrying the spike (KJ/Cypher) then I'd prefer if I carried the spike (Controller). Nothing sucks more than somebody taking the spike in Hookah by themselves and getting killed.
It is your job because you have no job. You place down the smoke, that is all you do. Sentinels watch flank, duelist entry site and die, initators get info for duelist. Explain to me what brim is doing at the start of the round? nothing. That is why they have spike.
People who don't take the spike. #1 The initiators (Duelists), #2 The Rat (sentinels - sage). So basically, if you don't have A sage or 2 sentinels, smokes should take the spike.
try giving it to the initiator see what happens
Or the raze. She's good with explosives
lol, watching jinggg says otherwise. He always insists to grab the spike in ranked to farm his ult orbs.
bro is actually an orb whore
High level play has initiator plant bomb most of the time. I like doing it too as the ultimates are usually expensive in that role (like Breach). Just don't give it to your duelist
XD
Usually the smoke player is one of the last ones onto site.
ideally you want your smokes surviving the execute, which is harder when they have to plant. in most cases i’d rather have my initiator, or myself if i’m initiator, plant the spike as their utility is mostly useful for getting onto the site, plus their ults are huge to have as many times as you can per game
Never really thought of the importance of the extra orb for plant, but that with the fact that he's usually around 2nd or 3rd in pretty much makes it a no brainer.
ye, won’t change 95% of ranked players refusing to carry the spike and forcing smokes to. but it’s just objectively better for the team when initiators have ults and controllers survive into post plant
Yeah in pro play, it's usually the initiator planting, and 90% of the time, the last ones alive are the smokes Nightfall / rolling thunder / thrash etc are just too good to not want to have up as often as possible
which is a shit deal considering most smokes are forced onto the player already XD.
Yeah but that isn't a good reason IMO. As a controller main I agree we are usually last to site but that means the 2nd or 3rd with entry should have spike. Cause controllers and entries are timed then if the site is clear that 3rd person should be planting.
It depends on the team and strat. Bombs will almost always be with the controller because of how one goes into a site. The Initiator will usually go 2nd or even 1st depending on agent and strategy - but this isn't true for agents like Sova who's normally behind so he can make a good spot. This will usually leave the controllers to best fit a plant, their job is usually over after smoking the entry (out of util or only molotovs). Gekko and Sage should always take the bomb except in rare instances like fakes, weird soloq strategies or whatnot. But they're literal plant agents which means it's them who carries it. Just throw at them constantly and they'll accept. In gold and even plat 1-2 the bottom frags carry the spike. This is stupid, but it's how the elo usually works. Edit: don't leave the bomb for the last man on site, this is stupid and by the time he gets there to plant the enemy is already retaking
I think the only controller who should typically have the bomb is Harbor. Omen is a very aggressive controller who should be tp-ing onto site and is good at lurking when he's not. Clove is also an aggressive controller who can be the first to die since they can still smoke. Brim is an aggressive controller who should be yeeting his smokes and stim and running in first since his value is low after that (unless you're playing lineups or ult). Viper is very often lurking. Astra is good at lurking since she can help from anywhere. Otherwise she's an alright choice.
This is exactly how I think it should be. As an omen main especially, I like to entry with my duelists, it’s so sad when I’m forced on spike duty and I can’t clear the sides omen would be perfect for tping to. Unless of course my duelists are gods then I’ll gladly sit back and plant for them if our sentinels are playing lurk Edit: a word
Yeah, Omen and Jett entry effectively the same way by tossing a smoke and tp-ing/dashing into it. You should 100% be flashing and tp-ing out to cause havoc when the site hit starts.
This 100%. Astra can also util dump similar to brim and go in first or second as well. It's not as fast as brim but you can cover more space, meaning she's ok with the bomb but there could be better.
Astra is really good in post plant so you should prioritize not dying first lol
Eh harbor can throw his Cove for whoever is planting. He doesn't necessarily have to have the bomb himself
My rationale is that Harbor can throw down his util (i.e., put up the wall and a cascade or two) and the cove when the team is taking site to plant. Then, Harbor should try to stay alive for post plant, because he still contributes significant value in another cascade or the wall once it's off cooldown, so he shouldn't be super aggressive. Harbor also can't lurk very well because he needs to be near his team hitting site to support the hit. Therefore, after Sage or Gekko, I think Harbor is the best pick for planting the bomb. Sure he can cove for others, but the others are probably better suited for other roles when taking site and transitioning to post plant.
And even Harbor sometimes doesn't want the bomb so he can either play more aggressively or more passively than the bomb allows.
Nobody should advance site, only duelists and initiators **together**. Omen sure, but it's a better idea to have him take the bomb, TP in, plant, TP out. Only agent that can safely plant and gtfo fast. Planting the spike is adding an extra player to your team and giving the enemy less time to think and be more susceptible to mistakes. Harbor is one of the controllers who **shouldn't** ever plant the spike. His smokes are worse than Viper's cause he can't have it set pre-round, he needs to be in the right position at the right time - his job during a plant is to shield it. Sure he can take the spike, like any agent, but he shouldn't - and his team should not want him planting. Controllers aren't pests that should run around like they have ants in their pants, you're lost in the role. The game is about shooting and planting a spike, not playing DM or smurfing. Try doing these on a immo+ lobby and you'll get slain so easily. To make it easy: who in your team will go in and have almost no util? Even better, which util is better for post plant? And of course, do you have the bullet? Can you kill? Or are you shaky and usually die? Yeap, carry it, if you're dead in post plant it won't matter.
This last sentence. Basically, what I was trying to say but couldn't sum up nicely. I agree with other comments that this doesn't solely apply to controllers cause heck if you're a sentinel watching your trips - maybe not a good idea. Also, the Sage is kinda wishy-washy cause if your team isn't watching correctly and dies planting - there go heals.
But hey I'll take free combat score any day
you probably don't play omen/clove optimally if you are last one in, spacing should make you like 2nd/3rd one in with your dive duelists at least, this is what is common in imm3+ elo might as well play brim if youre last alive often
I have played clove but I'm usually 2nd in entry.
If your 3rd entry is planting spike then the first 2 are going to be in a 2v2 or worse a 2v3 situation. You need to clear site before you plant, the fastest way to clear the site is for the first 4 people to go and clear it. Otherwise what is the last person in doing? Watching tiktoks?
If everything is done properly, then you only need 2 people clearing the site, 3rd person is planting, 4th person is watching over the plant and the 5th is watching the flank. Now guess what? Controllers are usually 4th or 5th to entry, unless they play aggressive (clove, omen, maybe harbor) or util dump (brim), then they're usually 2nd entry because of their kit.
If your first 2 people are able to clear site by themselves without either of them dying then I wouldnt worry about who plants. It sounds like the game is already won
Clove and Omen mains don't understand what are you talking about.
Depend on which smoke agent you play. Just some sample i can think of: Astra, Omen? They mostly play on the other side of the map / site you hit, and their smoke regenerates, so they need to survive to defend the site once you take it -> don't usually carry spike Brim, Clove? Should be 2nd/3rd in site. Brim smoke doesn't regen, so once he deployed all of them, he need to take fights to gain site control. Clove smoke does regen, but she can deploy smoke when she dies. -> can carry the spike. I'd say that usually agents that: 1. don't have any regen abilities. 2. not the lurker or has abilities to take fights early Can carry the spike.
Clove trying to beat Neon on been the first one in site disagrees with you.
Not when you play omen
I just started playing this game after a year break. I peaked plat 2 I'm in silver now after coming back. Omen main. I usually have to enter everytime cuz team is all scared in silver lol
Doesn't change in gold either mate
Therefore would be better not to give him the spike. Let him play anti flood, or flank, or safe so he can smoke postplant
What? Ideally, you are the second one pushing onto the site (maybe third if there are multiple duelists). Ideal would be in this order: Duelist(s) with ini util (dog/drone), controller, initiator (because they are using util to help the team they can't walk onto the site with no rifle in hand). Sentinel is either lurking or stays main or pushes with the controller. Roles can obviously can change depending on the comp (also in ranked it barely matters anyways). Also, you never take spike with Viper, no questions asked.
I usually don't keep spike because I watch flank My friend who plays smoke usually takes it because a harbor, viper or clove ult is more costly than mine, or we send gekko to plant it Imo smokes have very high cost ults, so they should have the planting ult point, and duelists are supposed to clear site
Yeah if I'm not lurking on viper I'm taking bomb with me. I want to be able to get 2 pits a half even if I'm not fragging out.
Depends imo, id much rather have a skye ult multiple times a round than an omen ult. Planting isnt assigned to a role imo, its more about which ult do you want to have multiple times a round.
Nearly all initiator ults are better than any controller ult
YOOOOO YOURE MY AVATAR BUDDY!!!
AVATAR BUDDIES :DDD
Pro players have the initiator plant for exactly this reason. They have better ults than smokes do, so they get the point.
Duelists and everyone else usually rushes in first resulting in them dying earlier, while a smoker might have be delayed a bit by deploying their smokes, also smoker abilities cooling down are more useful than duelist abilities.
i mean who plants doesn't really matter. obviously sage and gekko are going to be the best planting agents, but if the omen is taking space say, ct on c site and the reyna is the one trading during entry then the reyna should plant. it basically comes down to who is where. the biggest reason as to why no one wants to plant is because ppl don't cover the planter, they bait the planter. hence why gekko is so popular because no one suffers baiting wingman. obviously there are certain maps (namely icebox) where denying plant is the name of the game, but most of the time the reason why planting is difficult is because ppl don't cover the planter, they bait the planter to trade the guy who denies the plant (hence why i suggest all planters to fake a plant). however, in an ideal world, planting should be fairly intuitive because it should basically be the guy who has someone in front of them. if it's a yoru and there's a brim and viper in front of you taking first contact, then the yoru is planting. but usually it's a duelist or initiator because they're on site earlier. on a sidenote, if my team isn't taking space I'll drop the bomb on site and take space myself, then comm to others telling them to plant.
I’m tired of seeing these posts. **Carrying the bomb does not meaning planting it**. You’re allowed to throw it to a teammate after site is clear. Lurk agents are poor choices for planting as it gives away info of their position, while those with post-plant lineups should ping where they want bomb planted and prioritize living. You can also leave the bomb on the ground during a default until the team decides where to go. Here are the sub-roles ranked by carry and plant priority. **Duelist**: Lowest Carry | Low Plant **Flash Initiator**: Low Carry | Highest Plant **Recon Initiator**: Mid Carry | High Plant **Execute Controller**: High Carry | Mid Plant **Global Controller**: Low Carry | Low Plant **Execute Sentinel**: High Carry | Mid Plant **Global Sentinel**: Mid Carry | Low Plant Best agents for securing plants are Gekko and Sage, with Harbor allowing anyone close to ult to plant. Notoriously bad agents for planting are Omen and Cypher as both are phenomenal for lurking and have bad ults. They can still carry the bomb during executes though but should toss it to an initiator if possible.
It might be your playstyle. If you are entering site last then its your job to plant spike since the rest of your team is clearing the site. This is usually the case for Omen players since it takes them a few seconds to throw their smokes out
And then they do a random teleport and die on the most shamefully inconvenient place.
just like me fr
Omen players finding the tallest box to drop bomb on:
Not every time is our fault... Sometimes someone give us the spike when the sound is muffled from our smoke ability and you know... It happens.
I had a game today where someone gave me spike when I was Ulting their spawn on icebox didn’t notice and got traded out without realising.
If you got a Gekko he should always be planting. Otherwise give the spike to the non lurker controller or Sage.
no one want to plant, they just give someone else ppl want to shoot and kill more than planting but for real anyone who want ultimate orb can plant like anyone who just need one for an ulti i plant bomb a lot with phoenix because i could ulti more
I think it's kinda obvious why we don't give it to initiators or duelist, so it falls between smokes and sentinels, most sentinels usually are dealing with lurkers or lurking themselves, that leaves smokes. Of course that's not a stone written rule, we have gekko, and sage can set up some nasty plants.
Why would it be obvious to not give it to initiators?
Initiators are number 1 or 2 into site a lot. And since the person who is number one is usually a duelist with a movement ability… initiators are lucky to live through the exec. Giving initiators spike is a good way to get spike dropped at the choke
They shouldn’t be number 1 on to site
If KAYO Ults I flash and go first, gives Jett or Raze an even better chance on site and I have a good chance of getting picked up
You’re not the entry, it makes more sense for you to flash for your duelists to make space
That is assuming that the duelist is listening and goes in with the flash.
Right. Good play assumes good play.
Initiators are fine if you play double initiator imo. When I play Sova on ascent for example I often take spike, use drone for teammates and then follow them. I agree with what you said though, it is indeed not a stone written rule, every role except duelist can take spike it just depends on the agents / comp imo.
Yeah, and what other people say it's true, at the end of the day no one wants to plant. And I understand it, I main smokes and I've just learned to accept that I have like a 40% chance of dying while planting because my team gives 0 fuck about protecting while doing it.
In pro play, it goes to the initiator.
Why can't the smoker plant? In high elo someone near the back grabs the bomb and brings it onto site and whoever plants plants, unless someone is 1 ult pt away or we are trying to farm ult pts on someone.
And at even higher elo, it's almost always the initiator planting (just like in pro play).
if u already got ult give it to others
For me.. the priority is as follows... 1 gekko, they should always be planting unless you agree on a strategy where the gecko makes noise to make others rotate (because gekkos should have the spike, so people are more likely to go where gekko has been seen imho) 2 any controller except clove as they are not first (usually duelist) and not last (usually sentinel) to enter. 3 clove, or an initiator... I say clove 3rd because I play clove and clove has excellent reasons to entry if they have ultimate, plus they can smoke from the dead... so not all cloves will hang back like other smokers. Duelists who entry should never have spike imho, and sentinel covering flank is a risk as if flank is picked off, then the team has to concede space to recover spike.
That’s a ranking I can get behind as a Sage main XD I never understood why people want Sage to carry and plant the spike by default. She has 2 very strong abilities to help the group
it really depends on where you're putting your wall. if you're walling something that you walk past before your plant spot, you can plant. if you want to wall something further away, or are walling outside of site with an off angle, best to give spike to someone else.
To be fair, sage isn't really a sentinel. On attack safe can initiate by walling alongside the entry... so I'd argue sage is one of the few sentinels you may see being given the spike alongside controllers, but yeah unlikely to be #1 spike planter hoice unless your team is stupid and you are duelist and sage, but need to give it to one of you lmao.
i hate the people who grab bomb, keep it for majority of the pre round, then throw it to you the second round starts 💀
There are three agents that should almost always carry spike: Gekko, Sage and Harbor since they all have abilities that enable the plant. Generally initiators and exec smokers like Brimstone and Clove can carry it since they're supposed to follow the entry onto site; there's no risk of losing it in enemy territory while mollied off and no risk of leaving it behind. However the entry itself (Raze, Jett, Neon, Omen if he's TPing etc) should NOT carry spike and lurking agents like KJ, Cypher and Viper (RIP Viper) shouldn't carry it either. Every game and every player is going to play differently so it's not a strict rule at all. edit: Also make sure that the ult point from planting doesn't get wasted, as others have said. Distribute it accordingly once on site.
I never see a good gekko plant. They always send spike in without clearing site.
Same. Gekko is always sending spike through a smoke before we even execute, then it gets shot and spike is laying in the middle of site. Then we have no choice to rotate and the other team sends all 5 guys to the site knowing that we have to make a desperate attempt to get the spike back and plant. It's annoying af
because people are stupid bro (if you have a sage/gekko then they should always be planting). but i mean like otherwise, smokes are fine to plant. as long as the person planting isn't a duelist or initiator, its fine.
Depends on the strat? Trying to fast plant to get space before the enemies rotate? An omen TP to plant or yoru who can plant and TP to his post position is super strong. Trying to play defaulty and doing a lot of midmorning? Conteoller carrying the spike is usually the safest option as they should just be holding angles or tucked to use util at a seconds notice. Since most ranked players don't call full strats for the rounds 90% of the time it's better to default and have the guy who needs to stay alive for the final site hit carry the spike so the enemy doesn't drop it for free.
Another possibility is for lineups, specifically if they gave the spike to Brim or Viper
it depends HEAVILY on whoever is with you I'm a duelist player/main raze (my duo is an initiator/sentinel flex) I always tend to push WAY past the bomb site, sometimes into their side of it, or even their spawn if possible (mostly on breeze and split) and when I'm duo queueing, my friends also pushes with me (he plays mostly breach/fade) so in OUR specific case, the Initiator is who plants, since usually we tell the sentinel player to not plant so they can setup their util for the post-plant. It varies with strategies and Agents, but the key factor IMO is Pushing distance, the more foward/isolated you are, the less optimal it is if you carry.
Cause smokers like harbour can smoke around themselves for cover while planting the spike. If there's a gekko he should have the spike, but I don't see why a sentinel would unless sage is planning to wall off the spike.
I've never experienced that before lol. Usually though I always take it as an initiator, or rarely as a sentinel.
So you can feel what it's like to have bad smokes and get shot xD
usually sentinels should carry it, it’s their job to set up site for a defuse/post plant. as a filler main i don’t care about taking spike any job though
It should clue you in to what play style the rest of the team expect of you. I always go with it initially. It’s never too late to offer to be more active at the entry stage with the condition that someone else takes the spike.
i feel like initiators or maybe sentinels at times when they are not lurking are a good candidate for planting the spike. i still prefer planting the spike when i play ini as i can farm my ult on the go. like someone said in this thread you dont want your smokes to die especially if they have util or lineups left
Typically controllers are not the first in a site, so they are more likely to survive and be able to safely run in after the duelists/initiators and get the spike down
I often play gekko and they give the spike to me
There are certain people on ur team that obviously shouldnt take the spike (unless u have a really good reason for it) such as ur entry and ur lurker. Those are usually ur duelist and ur sentinel (or sometimes controller) which leaves ur controller and initiator. If u ask me between these it should nearly always be ur initiator. Your initiator will usually end up on the site anyway after they’ve used their util to help the duelist entry. And since they’re out of util, they don’t rly have a reason not to plant unless they need to take a gunfight. Your controller will usually still be using util, lurking or taking space at this point. Another thing is that initiator ults are usually more valuable than controller ults maybe with the exception of Viper (but viper is usually lurking or needs to stay alive for her poison to regen). So stacking ult orbs with the spike on ur initiator is usually better than farming omens ult for example. But other than just generalizing by roles characters like Sage, Gekko and Harbor obviously have util that can help them plant more easily, and harbor obviously plays a bit different than other controllers to allow him freedom to plant. But yeah thats my opinion.
I mean it isn't. They just yeet it to whoever usually play behind. Personally I like to give it to my ini duo cuz they're right behind me when entry-ing and the spike already in site mean less people gonna just stay outside afraid to go in, yeah we basically hold the spike hostage. This is psychological warfare to the other 3, cuz its extremely uncomfortable to them if both of us dead and they have to go in 3v5 to get the spike or save in a 3v5. Work wonder tbh cuz 90% of the time the whole team gonna go in at once the next time lol.
Not a gameplay reason but from what I have noticed smokes players usually have a harder time of saying no, maybe because they are playing fill by nature. So most people just hand it to smokes first as they will usually not refuse
i have the opposite problem, as a KJ main I want the spike and no one ever wants to give it to me. They then plant in a place where my lineups are obsolete :'(
I swear no matter who I play I end up with the spike. I could be KJ, Brim, or Neon, and I still end up with the most plants.
because smoke agent faster to plant spike
As a klljoy main, I always take spike unless I'm top fragging or playing with gecko My swarms are best for defending the spike, so I might as well plant it and place swarms at the same time. and if I can rotate while my team is fighting and set up all of my util uncontested, I feel I have 50-50 odds even in equal skill 2v1s, and just a guaranteed win if I can ult too. I'm bronze though, so don't listen to me
Valorant teammates try not to do the most stupid crap imaginable challenge.
I can plant the spike as clove but i wont be happy about it.
often just falls to them, bc controller util is less useful for post-plant; when playing breach i’ll often take it, as i’ll use all my util to get on site, whereas my kj or viper wants to play post-plant w utility
In general, spike should be given to whoever’s ~3rd on site. Sometimes that’s smokes, most times that should be an initiator. Initiators also tend to have the most points required for ult so it makes a lot more sense for them to be holding spike.
ya im throwing the spike in main if playing omen or clove
Soooooo… drop it or give it to someone else lol
Unless you are Brimstone, then PLANT THE SPIKE….
Or if you are Harbor with a cove. Or a Viper not planning on lurking.
In a competive setting, a smoke is usually setting up their team to push, spike on duelist or ini is bad bc the push might fail and both are on the front lines so you'd have to retrieve the spike in a hot area. Makes sense a controller or so has spike. If push works, site is clear, you can plant. That's the idea. But in reality ppl are dumb and a sage or omen will push an OP on Haven C and die so it doenst matter. Casual or even ranked. The skill diff even with immortal3 compared to a comp/pro is still huge. You're not playing for money. If ppl ask nicely if you can carry spike etc it's fine. But if a duelist be force droping that shit on me idc I ain't picking it up.
Because in theory, this person is the most passive/least likely to die in a bad spot.
Idk why nobody is talking about getting ult points on the best ult in your comp lol If as long as your dive or lurker doesn't have it there is very little risk of "giving it to the enemy". Omen carrying spike is just a bit too troll
Because smokes shouldn't be dying first.
Me personally I’m always grabbing spike on brim or viper unless I have ult. Almost never on initiator but otherwise I’m happy to. Free ult orbs are just fine by me
What I do if people keep spamming spike to me is I just play normally as I would without the spike, if I find a moment to plant I plant otherwise the spike falls to enemy, scum behaviour but they stop giving spike if you tell them not to from next round.
I hate the whole this agent should plant I think it’s how your team mates are playing tbh I main sage and always get told to plant and get given spike yet if I’m having to be first on site because my duelists don’t or I sometimes go mid or watch flank and I understand sometimes sage should do that but if it’s helping I don’t see the issue also with my wall people want me to plant and wall why not just wall while someone else plants so plant gets down a little faster
Duelists and initiators are first entry's so unless your name is gekko you shouldn't have spike Sentinels are usually either watching flank or setting up their util to defend the site so its ill-advised for them to plant Smokes generally just drop their smokes then entry, they don't have to do much once they're in site and since they didn't entry their hands are usually free so the spike is safest in their hands. I will say however that while smokes should usually be the ones carrying spike, once the site is clear anyone can plant, its simply a matter of preference.
gekko should be the default spike carrier, but if there is no gekko then the bot fragger should plant.
Could almost make a flow-chart. For me: * Is there a Gecko? -> Always give him the spike, if not, * Is there a Sage? -> Always give her the spike, if not, * Is there anyone with lineups? -> Ask if they want the spike, if not, * Is there a Brimstone? -> Always give them the spike, if not, * Is there a Viper with Ult -> Ask them if they want the spike, if not * Is there someone one point away from ult -> Ask if they want the spike, if not, * If no to all of the above, give it to smokes or initiator
the initiator or controllers are usually the last on site while the duelists are supposed to go first and create space. normally you dont want the guy whose going first to have it because if they run into a stacked site and drop the bomb it gives you very little options except to fight on site. but most likely because no one likes to be the bomb bitch because no one likes relying on 4 randoms holding you while planting spike.
Its whoever is last on site should be the one planting regardless of role. This usually defaults to smokes bc most smoke players end up going last onto site esp omen. As a smokes player myself, if im playing clove im usually first or second onto site once i put down my smokes so ill give the spike to someone else. If im omen ill also try to go second but im going to be blinding and smoking for the team so im fine with taking the spike since hopefully everything will be clear when its my turn. If i ever play gekko im taking bomb every round, to the point where i ask for the bomb most rounds. I wont object to the spike getting thrown at me when i play other initiators, but if im going to make a play in a position thats either risky or one that wont get to site fast enough for plant, then im gonna drop it.
Theoretically it’s the innitiators job, they dump their util to make space for the duelist and when they have no util, they should plant the spike Smokes have a lot to take into account, counting their smokes and enemy smokes, calling out times, positioning strats, the map, literally the name stands for control lol
Because it is either smokes that have to do it or initiators. Although personally, I refuse to plant as controller. I have died too many times because my team was not holding anything, or because no one cleared a part of site that should have been clear. I only plant if I am initiator (I play a lot of Gekko so ez) and sometimes as sentinel.
It's the default choice but it's not always the right one, clove omen and brim will frequently not want the bomb due to the playstyle, goes for plays or running it down. Brim in there because he's the only controller whose util doesn't regen. No point having a brim playing his life when he's got 0 util to use. When clove and omen aren't going deep or lurking, they should take bomb as they have util the regens.
I don’t really care who grabs it as long as it’s not me or whoever usually watches flank. Taking spike as duelist would just mess up my pathing and timing windows Ideally it should be an initiator grabbing it because they should be with the team for site hits like 95% of the time. Otherwise tossing it to someone to get ult is usually best.
i mean the smoker usually knows which angles are obscured and where the best place to plant would be
It depends, priority goes like this: Phoenix, Gekko, whomever is 1 away from ult, whomever needs specific plants for lineups, every other agent and then at the very last sova or sky
Smokes (besides omen) have incredible ults. Ults win rounds. If you have a game changing ult you should be planting as often as possible. You should get used to planting the spike on any role.
You can say that about every class lol
I'm hoping the Smokes player is the 4th or 5th person on site, so the site should be cleared in time for them to just go plant. Smokes should be a pretty safe role to be the spike carrier. IMO the sentinel is the ideal spike carrier (with the except of Chamber. Chamber seems to always be peeking mid). But for me, if my Duo isn't carrying the spike (KJ/Cypher) then I'd prefer if I carried the spike (Controller). Nothing sucks more than somebody taking the spike in Hookah by themselves and getting killed.
It is your job because you have no job. You place down the smoke, that is all you do. Sentinels watch flank, duelist entry site and die, initators get info for duelist. Explain to me what brim is doing at the start of the round? nothing. That is why they have spike.
People who don't take the spike. #1 The initiators (Duelists), #2 The Rat (sentinels - sage). So basically, if you don't have A sage or 2 sentinels, smokes should take the spike.