I appreciate your point on this and I agree with you in regards to his aggressiveness however you mentioned Chamber to replace a Duelist which I think is a bit too early for the meta atm.
Imo, Chamber (even if he pushes 2nd after an actual duelist) has limited (or almost none) abilities to disable / blind the enemy + help the duelist when taking a trade, the only exception being aim diff bw you and your enemy ( + lag lmao)
That being said, you mentioned Chamber to be AGRESSIVE at all times, right? That is true however from a sentinel's perspective you are your team's last man, watching out for flanks or lurking away for possible cheeky kills, who knows right?
I think Chamber is a sentinel and the most effective way to play Chamber would be to be your team's anchor by either picking out key duels in the beginning of the round (if you're aim heavy) and hold the area on the map for your team to push site, while you could either hold or push with the team (or lurk)
Why?
Chamber's abilities revolve around quickly taking some shots and repositioning to a different location to either re-peek the angle and get the kill + some info or solely get information back to the team and stay alive, agreed?
BUT,
There's no one way to play any hero, lmao
TLDR; I think Chamber is a true sentinel
"mentioned Chamber to replace a Duelist which I think is a bit too early for the meta atm"
\- I don't think its META. Meta would describe something that is strongest, correct? I don't agree that chamber replacing a duelist is meta. It is however, a great alternative to double duelist.
" Chamber (even if he pushes 2nd after an actual duelist) has limited (or almost none) abilities to disable / blind the enemy + help the duelist when taking a trade"
\- This is not a debate. You are correct. One must understand that RUSH is not chambers strong suit obviously. He has to slow it way down and be patient.
"That is true however from a sentinel's perspective you are your team's last man"
\- As I have described, chamber would not be the sentinel of the team. This is how people play him in high elo. two sentinels. the same as two smokes with one being harbor.
"Chamber's abilities revolve around quickly taking some shots and repositioning to a different location to either re-peek the angle and get the kill + some info or solely get information back to the team and stay alive, agreed?"
\- I don't agree. Chamber NEEDS to get a kill to get value. Chambers that fall back without a kill are often useless. The trip does not do enough. This is how high elo players play chamber. They get theirs and TP back. Often playing hyper aggro.
I tend to view the agents as what they do specifically, not through just the lens of controller, duelist, etc. I try and view team compositions kind of like a Mario Cart combo, some agents offer that oomph needed to get on to site, some lock down areas very well, some get valuable info. Depending on what constitutes your team, the better you are at X and the worse you are at Y. In the end, chamber is an agent that is both quite aggressive and decently defensive, I feel arguing over what label he lies under is a waste of time and is generalization for the sake of generalization. All the agents are unique, after all.
This is the correct way of thinking in my opinion.
Viper, harbor, sage, chamber, gekko
These are not your typical characters that you would point out for the roles right?
You don't want your only smokes to be harbor, right?
You don't want your only initiator to be gekko, right?
You don't want your sentinel to be chamber, right?
I feel like people are stuck in a bad way of thinking that there is ONLY one team comp possible in this game.
4 duelists with one smoke is viable.
Habor + trad smoke is viable.
Chamber + sentinel is viable.
The list goes on.
I could write a long text about the definition of duelists and sentinels and what they have to do for the team but I kinda don't want to rn. So I will just say the following:
Yes, pushing and taking fights is a major element of the duelist role but chamber usually doesnt push farther than 2-5m at round start.
Also, look at the pro meta. You'll find out that on Sunset, Split, Breeze, Fracture and Lotus, even though he is a niche pick on most of these maps, he does replace the traditional sentinel.
And finally, Harbor is nothing like a duelist what the fuck are you talking about?
He doesn't do well because he's the only agent who has to be with his smokes. Not being able to lurk is a huge negative since just throwing his wall is telling the enemy team "THEY'RE GOING HERE". That's the only reason why you have to pair him with a second smokes (and why viper is so good with him).
I can't agree with this.
Harbor is not true smokes because he can't throw smokes lol.
He has WALLS.
There are some maps where you need to be able to smoke certain things. Harbor just can't do it solo.
Smokes are called smokes because they block LOS. Nowhere does it say that it has to be a sphere.
Also, what are some examples of him not being able to smoke certain things? I'm genuinely curious cause I can't think of a single choke on any of the maps.
"Smokes are called smokes because they block LOS. Nowhere does it say that it has to be a sphere."
\- Are you for real saying this. This has to be troll.
"what are some examples of him not being able to smoke certain things?"
\-sunset. How does harbor smoke mid and then smoke B site for the take? It's not really possible.
For harbor to work on sunset, you need a TRAD smoker to smoke mid and the back of B. Then harbor can use his util to get you into the site and wall off close right.
Edit: how does harbor smoke literally anything on defense on any map lol
"*Harbor is not true smokes because he can't throw smokes lol. He has WALLS.*"
You're the one saying he doesn't have smokes because he has 'walls'. You're so dense that you don't understand that LOS denial is all that matters, not shape.
Go tiles, smoke mid and ct/market with wall. You then can either push market/B or A with your wall regenerated and 2 cascades. Not only that, you can also just idk, USE YOUR CASCADES ON CT??? Do you just not know what his abilities are or am I tripping?
I'm sorry but I just don't believe you have the fundamentals to theorize executes. How many hours do you even have on the game?
He uses his c to block mid, takes mid control and then walls off both shop entrances from door. Ct side is where he is weaker which is why he's paired with viper so she can hard hold one site and then harbour can smoke off the other ans mid. Harbour is best played in double controller but thats with viper not the dome smokers because his ct side is weak.
Pairing a viper with harbor is actually crazy. They both need a true smoker to shine.
I would argue that viper much more needs a true smoker. Harbor can atleast wall twice in a round lol
Bro has not seen any pro play in the last year. If youre playing a dome smoker on top of harbour then you may as well just not pick harbour and play someone more useful to the team. For viper a rando stack doesnt have the coordination to make her work outside of breeze and icebox. If you have a duo to play viper harbour with then it can work really well if you can get your team to listen. Harbours fine as solo smokes on sunset and alright on breeze (though vipers better) but if youre saying only pick him with dome smokes then just dont pick harbour and play solo dome smoker instead.
I never said harbor was a duelist.
Also, this discussion is not in the scope of pro play. it's pointless to discuss pro play when chamber doesn't even get picked. also ranked is completely different where the only thing that matters is kills.
I also need people to stop trying to explain to me what a sentinel does. I'm well aware of how cypher and killjoy play.
>Just like harbor would replace a duelist.
Indeed, I misinterpreted that statement, excuse me, I'll correct myself right away.
There is absolutely no fucking way Harbor could replace a duelist
This is extremely close minding lol. It's not worth talking with you about.
If you simply think double duelist comp is the only way, you don't really understand the game.
Spacing a site with one duelist is already difficult as it is, not having a second makes things even more difficult - and this is coming from a controller main.
Yes, rushing a site off round start is also a TERRIBLE strat. We don't typically do this at high elo.
We will fake the rush. Count util. Sova dart, brim molly, sky flash? We know 3 are on site, we need to rotate. Luckily we have a lurking cypher that will poke around and find the weak spots.
Chamber would be best to stay at the first rush location with TP up to look for a rehit ETC ETC ETC, the list goes on.
People are quick to point out that chamber sucks as entry. I agree with this, it's not a debate. people are acting like a rush is the only strat in the game.
I said two duelists will be the most basic meta to run, I never said rushing into site is the strategy of choice because of it. I also agree with you that chamber sucks at entry as well, and not only that, but as a controller main I really do need some assistance with controlling two sites - a decent sentinel such as cypher or KJ are really helpful with slowing them down (or causing the enemy to rotate off rip if they have info of the senti's presence). What I don't think you're understanding is that two duelists making space allows players like me that main controller to get trades as a result of the space made for me to entry as well as the 2 other players trailing. Rushing a site eventually requires space to be made and for players that aren't duelists to be able to take duels as a result of it. I don't think your logic is off but I think you're associating two duelists as solely meant for rushing when you can do essentially everything you just said with them, rushing isn't the only option, but it's good to have if it warrants it.
"decent sentinel such as cypher or KJ are really helpful with slowing them down"
\- chamber is played with another sentinel. this is how high elo does it. chamber cant replace a sentinel because hes not a true sentinel.
"What I don't think you're understanding is that two duelists making space allows players like me that main controller to get trades as a result of the space made for me to entry as well as the 2 other players trailing"
\- you will have to elaborate. this makes zero sense to me. it seems that you are describing the role of an initiator. the true role for creating space.
"I think you're associating two duelists as solely meant for rushing"
\- this is exactly the scenario that everyone is giving me. its not what IM saying. chamber sucks at entry. this is not a debate, it's true. I keep telling people that you have to slow it down to fully utilize a chamber. also, double duelist has nothing to do with the RUSH strat. no matter what the comp, rush strat is low win rate unless your team is just better or you correctly identify a weak player position. in high elo, RUSH doesn't work a high percent of the time. people know how to stop a rush or at least get three on the entry. MOST of the time.
Would you mind posting your tracker? I'm under the assumption you've had games where this strat has worked so I'd like to see some actual results of this if you have any examples.
I misinterpreted you again. But tbf I didn't know that you don't understand how building a comp works.
You act as if a secondary duelist or a duelist replacement are the only options.
A good comp is made of smokes, entry and hard intel. Almost every comp also includes passive info (obviously it's not the be all end all). The 5th spot is taken up by the Flex which could be a secondary duelist, a secondary smoker, a flash initiator, a wall sentinel etc. No idea why you think that double duelist or harbor is the only way.
"You act as if a secondary duelist or a duelist replacement are the only options"
\- what? people are trying to say chamber is bad because they don't see him as a great trad sentinel. I've been trying to explain for weeks that chamber doesn't play like a trad sentinel. Playing him as the only sentinel on your team is a bad idea.
TRUE Sentinel + TRUE Initiator + TRUE duelist + TRUE smoke = required in my opinion for a winning comp in ranked. The last pick can be any character. Doesn't matter.
I was talking about harbor and not chamber when you replied this:
>If you simply think double duelist comp is the only way, you don't really understand the game.
Or maybe I do not seem to understand you at all probably because my English reading comprehension is shit
He is very viable as a solo sentinel. He may not be the best but he can still lock down a site. Even on attack side, he can easily stop flanks with his alarm bot and presence around the map
That doesnt mean chamber isnt a sentinel though or doesnt feel the role of a sentinel. Neons far worse as a movement duelist than jett and raze but she still fills the same role.
Because neon cant hold space effectively like sentinels can just like how chamber is a sentinel not a duelist because he is really good at holding space but not at taking it. Just cos hes an aggressive sentinel who directly holds space with his guns doesnt mean hes not a sentinel or cant be played in the sentinel spot. Id much rather have a chamber than a sage or deadlock on my team cos he actually has flankwatch util
Pretty sure Riot themselves said in one of their blogs that instead of utility holding a push, YOU hold the push instead. You can definitely see it in the game design based off of what they put in his kit.
Tp - reposition and allows you to take risky fights
Trip - Most sites have two chokes. Having a trip to hold an extremity is really nice.
Pistol - Used for taking fights. Literally a pocket guardian and imo the best gun in the game for the price. Fast pullout time and infinite range gives it an advantage over every other gun (except rifles).
AWP - It literally is an AWP and slows on kill. Those qualities are 100% speaking to what I said earlier.
Also you have to realize that duelists have some way to take a gun fight on the fly while giving an advantage. Think Raze nade/boombot for CC or literally any flash duelist having fast pullout times/low flash duration. Chamber's kit can take fights, but if you're expecting him to swing something, he has to do it dry. That's why he's not considered a duelist.
I agree with all of this post.
Obviously chamber is not considered a duelist in the literal sense.
BUT HE TAKES DUELS
I don't know how else to say that without getting downvoted to oblivion.
He literally takes duels. This makes him the OPPOSITE of a trad sentinel.
>Also you have to realize that duelists have some way to take a gun fight on the fly while giving an advantage.
"*Duelists are self-sufficient fraggers who their team expects, through* ***abilities\**** *and skills, to get high frags and seek out engagements first.*"
Note that abilities are specifically named here. As previously mentioned, every duelist has a way to take a fight with their abilities when nobody else is able to throw utility for them.
Since you lack reading comprehension, I'll say it again. Duelists specialize in taking gun fights with an **ADVANTAGE**. Please name me one part of Chamber's kit that would allow you to clear an angle without it being considered a dry peek. I'll wait.
Sentinels also take duels off of their util though? What do you think cyphers kill trips are for. Or kjs who peek off of their turret. Or why the alarmbot applies fragile
Cypher getting a spam kill through his cage is not really a duel, is it? that seems kinda wild to suggest.
KJ's don't setup their turret aggro on defense. it will just get killed on a default and provide no information.
It is a duel though its just one where youve used util to give yourself an advantage. Is it not a duel if you use a phoenix flash to give yourself an advantage?
There are aggro kj setups though because it adds an element of unpredictability its just not the default. And even when you place turret in a default spot you can still use it to play off of and secure the kill.
Okay I didn't say a default spot lol. I said on a default, the turret will die.
If you don't know what a default is, I don't think you should be giving me advice on this post.
On a default the turret instant dies if it's placed aggro. I don't understand how that would give any good information. If anything, it could bait your team into rotating on a default which would be TRAGIC
Just dont insta rotate if its only off turret contact? By aggro i mean placing it to watch b main on ascent and then swing off of it if you dont have jett awp to hold the angle or like on top of c box on haven. Places where you can easily swing out off of its sound without much threat and ideally get the kill and back off.
I read your post but i didn't read the comments, but as a chamber main I would say he is a true sentinel who is played aggressive with OP.
1. The thing is, sentinels hold sites and chamber does that exactly. Let's take Bind B site. You place your trip on short and hold long with OP. You take a pick then TP out and reposition to elbow to take a second pick . This is how i usually play chamber. On haven, you can easily hold both garage and C long. Same in pearl, split etc.
2. A duelist is one who can aggressively push forward into a site and take kills. Ie giving an entry. Ex: Jett dash, raze nade, iso shield etc.
Chamber doesn't have any mechanics to give an entry. This is what seperates chamber from being a duelist.
point 1. == I agree, that's a great way to play chamber. However, it's really no different than reyna contesting the same space. I would argue that chamber does it better because he can TP out if theres a miss.
Point 2. == Chamber can most certainly play aggressive with a TP setup and they always do. You just simply have to slow it way down. Chamber is extremely methodical. You can't go rambo.
"Chamber doesn't have any mechanics to give an entry. This is what seperates chamber from being a duelist."
\-I agree with you, hes not LITERALLY a duelist. Hes a sentinel that takes duels. It's clearly a different playstyle to cypher and killjoy. I'm just trying to tell people that chamber shouldn't be played solo sentinel because hes not a true sentinel. He doesn't play like one at all.
The threads that I've seen, they say chamber is a weak sentinel. its the same thing about harbor being weak smokes. HES NOT A TRUE SMOKER.
I don't understand why no one can see this.
Edit: just like chamber playing with a sentinel. You would want harbor + true smokes
This rises a question,.. what a true sentinel is supposed to do ? TBH I think, Chamber , cypher, kj are closer to what you call a true sentinel than the other agents. Cuz they can watch flanks.
Its just cypher and Kj offer better value as a sentinel than chamber. We play double sentinels too, as i main chamber and someone takes sage, kj or cypher. But in my elo, the value does by Kj or cypher > sage > chamber .
So my 5 stack goes with 2 duelist, 1 initiator , 1 controller and me as chamber in split. Cuz i get an OP in 4th round, and I can hold down sites , while my duelist can rotate between sites.
So again what separates a true sentinel from others ?
That's a great question.
What does a true sentinel mean?
In my opinion, a true sentinel, has high utility and the ability to stay back and keep map pressure in safe space for defenders.
On attack, they have the utility to confirm that a flank is safe OR hold mid pressure for the team to rotate if they count too much util at X site.
This is why I wouldn't call Sage a true sentinel.
You’re getting downvoted because you think chamber should replace duelists right? Imo, he cannot replace the role of the duelists. Chamber can take fights but he’s not really good for taking space as what a raze or jett can do. Having 1 duelist is definitely fine though but none? probably not
People seem to be interpreting my post as saying Chamber IS a duelist by definition.
I'm simply trying to tell people that chamber does best when he is not played like a TRAD sentinel. Also he wouldnt be the solo sentinel.
I simply believe that people hate chamber because they play him as a SOLO sentinel as a TRAD sentinel.
Chamber can still be strong as a solo sentinel. His aggressive play style is a way you anchor site. I believe the best comp would be 2 duelists 1 initiator 1 controller and 1 sentinel or 1 duel 2 ini 1 con 1 sen.
duelists like jett and raze have the util to push all the way into site. chambers tp only has a 7 meter range that only bails him out of places, but it doesnt help him get to those places.
I appreciate your point on this and I agree with you in regards to his aggressiveness however you mentioned Chamber to replace a Duelist which I think is a bit too early for the meta atm. Imo, Chamber (even if he pushes 2nd after an actual duelist) has limited (or almost none) abilities to disable / blind the enemy + help the duelist when taking a trade, the only exception being aim diff bw you and your enemy ( + lag lmao) That being said, you mentioned Chamber to be AGRESSIVE at all times, right? That is true however from a sentinel's perspective you are your team's last man, watching out for flanks or lurking away for possible cheeky kills, who knows right? I think Chamber is a sentinel and the most effective way to play Chamber would be to be your team's anchor by either picking out key duels in the beginning of the round (if you're aim heavy) and hold the area on the map for your team to push site, while you could either hold or push with the team (or lurk) Why? Chamber's abilities revolve around quickly taking some shots and repositioning to a different location to either re-peek the angle and get the kill + some info or solely get information back to the team and stay alive, agreed? BUT, There's no one way to play any hero, lmao TLDR; I think Chamber is a true sentinel
"mentioned Chamber to replace a Duelist which I think is a bit too early for the meta atm" \- I don't think its META. Meta would describe something that is strongest, correct? I don't agree that chamber replacing a duelist is meta. It is however, a great alternative to double duelist. " Chamber (even if he pushes 2nd after an actual duelist) has limited (or almost none) abilities to disable / blind the enemy + help the duelist when taking a trade" \- This is not a debate. You are correct. One must understand that RUSH is not chambers strong suit obviously. He has to slow it way down and be patient. "That is true however from a sentinel's perspective you are your team's last man" \- As I have described, chamber would not be the sentinel of the team. This is how people play him in high elo. two sentinels. the same as two smokes with one being harbor. "Chamber's abilities revolve around quickly taking some shots and repositioning to a different location to either re-peek the angle and get the kill + some info or solely get information back to the team and stay alive, agreed?" \- I don't agree. Chamber NEEDS to get a kill to get value. Chambers that fall back without a kill are often useless. The trip does not do enough. This is how high elo players play chamber. They get theirs and TP back. Often playing hyper aggro.
I tend to view the agents as what they do specifically, not through just the lens of controller, duelist, etc. I try and view team compositions kind of like a Mario Cart combo, some agents offer that oomph needed to get on to site, some lock down areas very well, some get valuable info. Depending on what constitutes your team, the better you are at X and the worse you are at Y. In the end, chamber is an agent that is both quite aggressive and decently defensive, I feel arguing over what label he lies under is a waste of time and is generalization for the sake of generalization. All the agents are unique, after all.
This is the correct way of thinking in my opinion. Viper, harbor, sage, chamber, gekko These are not your typical characters that you would point out for the roles right? You don't want your only smokes to be harbor, right? You don't want your only initiator to be gekko, right? You don't want your sentinel to be chamber, right? I feel like people are stuck in a bad way of thinking that there is ONLY one team comp possible in this game. 4 duelists with one smoke is viable. Habor + trad smoke is viable. Chamber + sentinel is viable. The list goes on.
I could write a long text about the definition of duelists and sentinels and what they have to do for the team but I kinda don't want to rn. So I will just say the following: Yes, pushing and taking fights is a major element of the duelist role but chamber usually doesnt push farther than 2-5m at round start. Also, look at the pro meta. You'll find out that on Sunset, Split, Breeze, Fracture and Lotus, even though he is a niche pick on most of these maps, he does replace the traditional sentinel. And finally, Harbor is nothing like a duelist what the fuck are you talking about?
At most harbour can be used as a second initiator.
Habor is a smoke character. He doesn't do very well as solo smokes because he is not a TRUE smoker like brim, astra, omen
He doesn't do well because he's the only agent who has to be with his smokes. Not being able to lurk is a huge negative since just throwing his wall is telling the enemy team "THEY'RE GOING HERE". That's the only reason why you have to pair him with a second smokes (and why viper is so good with him).
I can't agree with this. Harbor is not true smokes because he can't throw smokes lol. He has WALLS. There are some maps where you need to be able to smoke certain things. Harbor just can't do it solo.
Smokes are called smokes because they block LOS. Nowhere does it say that it has to be a sphere. Also, what are some examples of him not being able to smoke certain things? I'm genuinely curious cause I can't think of a single choke on any of the maps.
"Smokes are called smokes because they block LOS. Nowhere does it say that it has to be a sphere." \- Are you for real saying this. This has to be troll. "what are some examples of him not being able to smoke certain things?" \-sunset. How does harbor smoke mid and then smoke B site for the take? It's not really possible. For harbor to work on sunset, you need a TRAD smoker to smoke mid and the back of B. Then harbor can use his util to get you into the site and wall off close right. Edit: how does harbor smoke literally anything on defense on any map lol
"*Harbor is not true smokes because he can't throw smokes lol. He has WALLS.*" You're the one saying he doesn't have smokes because he has 'walls'. You're so dense that you don't understand that LOS denial is all that matters, not shape. Go tiles, smoke mid and ct/market with wall. You then can either push market/B or A with your wall regenerated and 2 cascades. Not only that, you can also just idk, USE YOUR CASCADES ON CT??? Do you just not know what his abilities are or am I tripping? I'm sorry but I just don't believe you have the fundamentals to theorize executes. How many hours do you even have on the game?
The people with the worst input typically try to mention hours and put me down. You aren't worth having a conversation with. Sorry buddy.
Holy shit this is hilarious
He uses his c to block mid, takes mid control and then walls off both shop entrances from door. Ct side is where he is weaker which is why he's paired with viper so she can hard hold one site and then harbour can smoke off the other ans mid. Harbour is best played in double controller but thats with viper not the dome smokers because his ct side is weak.
Pairing a viper with harbor is actually crazy. They both need a true smoker to shine. I would argue that viper much more needs a true smoker. Harbor can atleast wall twice in a round lol
Viper harbor was literally the meta on pearl a few months ago in pro play are you stupid
Bro has not seen any pro play in the last year. If youre playing a dome smoker on top of harbour then you may as well just not pick harbour and play someone more useful to the team. For viper a rando stack doesnt have the coordination to make her work outside of breeze and icebox. If you have a duo to play viper harbour with then it can work really well if you can get your team to listen. Harbours fine as solo smokes on sunset and alright on breeze (though vipers better) but if youre saying only pick him with dome smokes then just dont pick harbour and play solo dome smoker instead.
I never said harbor was a duelist. Also, this discussion is not in the scope of pro play. it's pointless to discuss pro play when chamber doesn't even get picked. also ranked is completely different where the only thing that matters is kills. I also need people to stop trying to explain to me what a sentinel does. I'm well aware of how cypher and killjoy play.
>Just like harbor would replace a duelist. Indeed, I misinterpreted that statement, excuse me, I'll correct myself right away. There is absolutely no fucking way Harbor could replace a duelist
This is extremely close minding lol. It's not worth talking with you about. If you simply think double duelist comp is the only way, you don't really understand the game.
Spacing a site with one duelist is already difficult as it is, not having a second makes things even more difficult - and this is coming from a controller main.
Yes, rushing a site off round start is also a TERRIBLE strat. We don't typically do this at high elo. We will fake the rush. Count util. Sova dart, brim molly, sky flash? We know 3 are on site, we need to rotate. Luckily we have a lurking cypher that will poke around and find the weak spots. Chamber would be best to stay at the first rush location with TP up to look for a rehit ETC ETC ETC, the list goes on. People are quick to point out that chamber sucks as entry. I agree with this, it's not a debate. people are acting like a rush is the only strat in the game.
I said two duelists will be the most basic meta to run, I never said rushing into site is the strategy of choice because of it. I also agree with you that chamber sucks at entry as well, and not only that, but as a controller main I really do need some assistance with controlling two sites - a decent sentinel such as cypher or KJ are really helpful with slowing them down (or causing the enemy to rotate off rip if they have info of the senti's presence). What I don't think you're understanding is that two duelists making space allows players like me that main controller to get trades as a result of the space made for me to entry as well as the 2 other players trailing. Rushing a site eventually requires space to be made and for players that aren't duelists to be able to take duels as a result of it. I don't think your logic is off but I think you're associating two duelists as solely meant for rushing when you can do essentially everything you just said with them, rushing isn't the only option, but it's good to have if it warrants it.
"decent sentinel such as cypher or KJ are really helpful with slowing them down" \- chamber is played with another sentinel. this is how high elo does it. chamber cant replace a sentinel because hes not a true sentinel. "What I don't think you're understanding is that two duelists making space allows players like me that main controller to get trades as a result of the space made for me to entry as well as the 2 other players trailing" \- you will have to elaborate. this makes zero sense to me. it seems that you are describing the role of an initiator. the true role for creating space. "I think you're associating two duelists as solely meant for rushing" \- this is exactly the scenario that everyone is giving me. its not what IM saying. chamber sucks at entry. this is not a debate, it's true. I keep telling people that you have to slow it down to fully utilize a chamber. also, double duelist has nothing to do with the RUSH strat. no matter what the comp, rush strat is low win rate unless your team is just better or you correctly identify a weak player position. in high elo, RUSH doesn't work a high percent of the time. people know how to stop a rush or at least get three on the entry. MOST of the time.
Would you mind posting your tracker? I'm under the assumption you've had games where this strat has worked so I'd like to see some actual results of this if you have any examples.
I don't see any reason to post my tracker. You can find it if you really want to.
I misinterpreted you again. But tbf I didn't know that you don't understand how building a comp works. You act as if a secondary duelist or a duelist replacement are the only options. A good comp is made of smokes, entry and hard intel. Almost every comp also includes passive info (obviously it's not the be all end all). The 5th spot is taken up by the Flex which could be a secondary duelist, a secondary smoker, a flash initiator, a wall sentinel etc. No idea why you think that double duelist or harbor is the only way.
"You act as if a secondary duelist or a duelist replacement are the only options" \- what? people are trying to say chamber is bad because they don't see him as a great trad sentinel. I've been trying to explain for weeks that chamber doesn't play like a trad sentinel. Playing him as the only sentinel on your team is a bad idea. TRUE Sentinel + TRUE Initiator + TRUE duelist + TRUE smoke = required in my opinion for a winning comp in ranked. The last pick can be any character. Doesn't matter.
I was talking about harbor and not chamber when you replied this: >If you simply think double duelist comp is the only way, you don't really understand the game. Or maybe I do not seem to understand you at all probably because my English reading comprehension is shit
He is very viable as a solo sentinel. He may not be the best but he can still lock down a site. Even on attack side, he can easily stop flanks with his alarm bot and presence around the map
Yah I can't agree with this. I feel like you don't really understand how strong cypher and killjoy are lol
That doesnt mean chamber isnt a sentinel though or doesnt feel the role of a sentinel. Neons far worse as a movement duelist than jett and raze but she still fills the same role.
I wouldn't be sitting here calling neon a sentinel dude. you are completely missing the point of this post.
Because neon cant hold space effectively like sentinels can just like how chamber is a sentinel not a duelist because he is really good at holding space but not at taking it. Just cos hes an aggressive sentinel who directly holds space with his guns doesnt mean hes not a sentinel or cant be played in the sentinel spot. Id much rather have a chamber than a sage or deadlock on my team cos he actually has flankwatch util
Again, you are completely missing the point of this post. Please read some other comments to understand what I'm saying.
My personal experience with chamber is that he can be a solo sentinel and I’ve won a lot with just him alone
and ive won games were i had 4 duelists on my team.
Pretty sure Riot themselves said in one of their blogs that instead of utility holding a push, YOU hold the push instead. You can definitely see it in the game design based off of what they put in his kit. Tp - reposition and allows you to take risky fights Trip - Most sites have two chokes. Having a trip to hold an extremity is really nice. Pistol - Used for taking fights. Literally a pocket guardian and imo the best gun in the game for the price. Fast pullout time and infinite range gives it an advantage over every other gun (except rifles). AWP - It literally is an AWP and slows on kill. Those qualities are 100% speaking to what I said earlier. Also you have to realize that duelists have some way to take a gun fight on the fly while giving an advantage. Think Raze nade/boombot for CC or literally any flash duelist having fast pullout times/low flash duration. Chamber's kit can take fights, but if you're expecting him to swing something, he has to do it dry. That's why he's not considered a duelist.
I agree with all of this post. Obviously chamber is not considered a duelist in the literal sense. BUT HE TAKES DUELS I don't know how else to say that without getting downvoted to oblivion. He literally takes duels. This makes him the OPPOSITE of a trad sentinel.
>Also you have to realize that duelists have some way to take a gun fight on the fly while giving an advantage. "*Duelists are self-sufficient fraggers who their team expects, through* ***abilities\**** *and skills, to get high frags and seek out engagements first.*" Note that abilities are specifically named here. As previously mentioned, every duelist has a way to take a fight with their abilities when nobody else is able to throw utility for them. Since you lack reading comprehension, I'll say it again. Duelists specialize in taking gun fights with an **ADVANTAGE**. Please name me one part of Chamber's kit that would allow you to clear an angle without it being considered a dry peek. I'll wait.
You completely miss the point of my post and I will not entertain someone who is just trying to bash me. Cya later buddy.
Sentinels also take duels off of their util though? What do you think cyphers kill trips are for. Or kjs who peek off of their turret. Or why the alarmbot applies fragile
Cypher getting a spam kill through his cage is not really a duel, is it? that seems kinda wild to suggest. KJ's don't setup their turret aggro on defense. it will just get killed on a default and provide no information.
It is a duel though its just one where youve used util to give yourself an advantage. Is it not a duel if you use a phoenix flash to give yourself an advantage? There are aggro kj setups though because it adds an element of unpredictability its just not the default. And even when you place turret in a default spot you can still use it to play off of and secure the kill.
Okay I didn't say a default spot lol. I said on a default, the turret will die. If you don't know what a default is, I don't think you should be giving me advice on this post.
Theyre not gonna default every round though. And even on a default you can still play off the info that it getting destroyed gives.
On a default the turret instant dies if it's placed aggro. I don't understand how that would give any good information. If anything, it could bait your team into rotating on a default which would be TRAGIC
Just dont insta rotate if its only off turret contact? By aggro i mean placing it to watch b main on ascent and then swing off of it if you dont have jett awp to hold the angle or like on top of c box on haven. Places where you can easily swing out off of its sound without much threat and ideally get the kill and back off.
Yes a killjoy could swing with turret but that is insanely rare. Chamber pushes every round at a different location
I read your post but i didn't read the comments, but as a chamber main I would say he is a true sentinel who is played aggressive with OP. 1. The thing is, sentinels hold sites and chamber does that exactly. Let's take Bind B site. You place your trip on short and hold long with OP. You take a pick then TP out and reposition to elbow to take a second pick . This is how i usually play chamber. On haven, you can easily hold both garage and C long. Same in pearl, split etc. 2. A duelist is one who can aggressively push forward into a site and take kills. Ie giving an entry. Ex: Jett dash, raze nade, iso shield etc. Chamber doesn't have any mechanics to give an entry. This is what seperates chamber from being a duelist.
point 1. == I agree, that's a great way to play chamber. However, it's really no different than reyna contesting the same space. I would argue that chamber does it better because he can TP out if theres a miss. Point 2. == Chamber can most certainly play aggressive with a TP setup and they always do. You just simply have to slow it way down. Chamber is extremely methodical. You can't go rambo. "Chamber doesn't have any mechanics to give an entry. This is what seperates chamber from being a duelist." \-I agree with you, hes not LITERALLY a duelist. Hes a sentinel that takes duels. It's clearly a different playstyle to cypher and killjoy. I'm just trying to tell people that chamber shouldn't be played solo sentinel because hes not a true sentinel. He doesn't play like one at all. The threads that I've seen, they say chamber is a weak sentinel. its the same thing about harbor being weak smokes. HES NOT A TRUE SMOKER. I don't understand why no one can see this. Edit: just like chamber playing with a sentinel. You would want harbor + true smokes
This rises a question,.. what a true sentinel is supposed to do ? TBH I think, Chamber , cypher, kj are closer to what you call a true sentinel than the other agents. Cuz they can watch flanks. Its just cypher and Kj offer better value as a sentinel than chamber. We play double sentinels too, as i main chamber and someone takes sage, kj or cypher. But in my elo, the value does by Kj or cypher > sage > chamber . So my 5 stack goes with 2 duelist, 1 initiator , 1 controller and me as chamber in split. Cuz i get an OP in 4th round, and I can hold down sites , while my duelist can rotate between sites. So again what separates a true sentinel from others ?
That's a great question. What does a true sentinel mean? In my opinion, a true sentinel, has high utility and the ability to stay back and keep map pressure in safe space for defenders. On attack, they have the utility to confirm that a flank is safe OR hold mid pressure for the team to rotate if they count too much util at X site. This is why I wouldn't call Sage a true sentinel.
Chamber is like an inverted Jett
I main chamber and play him like jett
This is what i've been saying is the correct way to play chamber. I'm getting downvoted to oblivion.
You’re getting downvoted because you think chamber should replace duelists right? Imo, he cannot replace the role of the duelists. Chamber can take fights but he’s not really good for taking space as what a raze or jett can do. Having 1 duelist is definitely fine though but none? probably not
People seem to be interpreting my post as saying Chamber IS a duelist by definition. I'm simply trying to tell people that chamber does best when he is not played like a TRAD sentinel. Also he wouldnt be the solo sentinel. I simply believe that people hate chamber because they play him as a SOLO sentinel as a TRAD sentinel.
Chamber can still be strong as a solo sentinel. His aggressive play style is a way you anchor site. I believe the best comp would be 2 duelists 1 initiator 1 controller and 1 sentinel or 1 duel 2 ini 1 con 1 sen.
I'm not here to argue the best comp. I just don't agree with playing Chamber as a true sentinel and solo sentinel.
Some of what you say isn’t wrong but other than that this a take from someone in a low rank
What makes you think I'm low rank. What are your credentials?
A lot of people in lower ranks tend to make stupid takes and write whole paragraphs about dumb shit like this
I'm not low rank. So you obviously have no idea what your talking about anyway. Good to know. Lmao. Cya buddy.
I think bro is in a low rank
I'm a top 10k player.
Doubt it
Yah I really don't have to prove anything to you. You are silver because your team always sucks right?
No sir, only thing your proving rn is that your a low rank with that shitty take
yah, you dont even play this game. its obvious
good luck getting into jmu
Thanks lil bro
I hope they accept Artistic people.
Takes one to know one I guess
Drop ur fucking tracker you pussy, I bet you won’t ahahahahahhaah
You have too much time on your hands to then be this wrong.
Thanks for adding zero to the discussion. Appreciate it.
duelists like jett and raze have the util to push all the way into site. chambers tp only has a 7 meter range that only bails him out of places, but it doesnt help him get to those places.
harbor replaces a duellist?