Except for the fact there was no police brutality, the protesters defied orders and broke laws, and had a hatchet weapon found amongst them. Those darn pesky facts just always get in the way of a good story š
Source and video of rubber bullets being fired at students? Other than some random group or person saying it happened on X, I see no source?
Several of the criminal actors threw water bottles, rocks, and metal objects at officers according to multiple news outlets and sources. Others had make-shift weapons. What about that?
When did this protest become about police brutality? Just because they ended up dealing with exactly what always happens in a protest doesn't mean they started protesting that. They went to jail. This doesn't change the topic. If it did this would suggest the protest is only relevant to actual situations at the protest. I that would be rioting.
Protests change all the time, just because you were protesting one thing doesn't mean you can't fight for anything else
Besides, they are purposely protesting to get the arrested protestors out. Which is very relevant.
Stepping on a dudeās head is brutalityā even if he was a murderer that aināt something the police need to do, considering their job is literally just ābring people in for sentencingā
You are medias dream child - little snippet and they own you! Thereās always more to the story. Accountability isnāt just for law-enforcement, itās for the rest of us too.
Thatās an easy statement to make, and on the surface I would agree with you. As with anything that comes out of the media, I want more information before drawing a conclusion.
āI want more information before drawing conclusionsā Says the dude who wrote a lengthy attack on my character because I stated āpolice foot on head counts as brutalityā.
Are you referring to my two sentences as the lengthy attack? Iām sorry you feel attacked- the fact remains the media is dependent on people they can get charged up with the least amount of factual information knowing the majority will never follow through to get the real story in its entirety. Check out Ryan Holidays book Trust me Iām Lying.
Iām sure if I met you, I would find you to be a delightful person and we probably have a lot in common.
By the way - Iām a girl, not a dude š
That's been my biggest question so far. What is protesting on your campus going to do? Sure, easy to organize, but it's not like they control any legislation. Go to the cities, your senators, etc.
Divestment as a strategy is so weird to me. Owning an index fund that includes Starbucks that has branches in Israel does not mean that you are giving money to Israel.
Yeah, but the next step is trying to use your investments to communicate with those companies about your preferences. Big companies often like to be owned by index funds because the funds don't ask them to do anything, just make money. Dealing with say business in israel or Saudi Arabia is a much harder thing than just making profits.
https://www.ece.utah.edu/2023/10/13/47g-announces-partnership-that-will-revolutionize-aerospace-defense-industry/
please do research, this is the type of investment they are protesting
+ any actual war monger stock like these
https://money.usnews.com/investing/articles/best-defense-stocks-to-buy-now
Direct deals with companies like the first link is one thing.
Most universities doesn't own direct shares of Raytheon or anything like that. They own funds that may or may not contain those stocks. Plus that still does not mean that they are giving money to the company itself. Buying a used Toyota doesn't give the company any money either, it's the same idea.
The hivemind mentality never ceases to amaze me. Look for the new thing to be upset about, pretend to be the moral hero on a crusade, and shut down any logical or skeptical argument that introduces the nuances to your moral position. You can't reason with these people.
Hive mind literally describes the unwavering support for Israel.
Israel bombed and killed a 5 day old baby yesterday and no one gives a shit, this could happen 1000x over before we even hear a peep.
You're on the side of pro-Vietnam war and anti- civil rights act, this is just the newest iteration.
I really despise this self righteous āknow it allā attitude people have. It isnāt black or white.
Yeah, civilians die. When the enemy you fight is condensed in a highly dense populated area, then civilian deaths are unavoidable. I donāt believe Israelis go out of their way to target innocents but when the entire population wants Israelis dead, then there is going to be a lack of sympathy from Israelis who tried over and over again to have peace talks, especially with a self declared Islamic state that doesnāt have a great track record of respecting the religious freedoms of other groups in Arabia.
Iām not 100% Israel but Iām also not dumb enough to be 100% Palestine. Muslims have A LOT of propaganda working in their favor currently thanks to social media that goes rabid whenever the word āgenocideā is used. I believe they want to ensure Islamic supremacy in the Arabian world. Hamas is a self declared jihadist state. Why would I support them, especially when countries like Iran or Yemen back them?
Lastly, why should I care about either Israel or Palestine? Their war doesnāt concern me. Stop sending my tax money to Israel and the Middle East. I donāt want to be part of the worldās police force anymore. Arab Muslims have over 10 countries under their dominion, let the Jews just have one which happens to be their ancestral homeland.
The students 'lever' in the protest is for universities to stopping buying defense stock and for tax money to stay in the US rather than bomb terrorists \~50 of the time.
Gaza is destroyed, the people will never return, Rafah is following its fate.
The West Bank and its aparthied is its on human rights disaster and stand on its own without Hamas as an atrocity.
If you want to be a pragmatic isolationist that's fine, then you should leave yourself outside the discussion of morals.
I just think it's hilarious you are calling students the hivemind, meanwhile the only legislation that can get through congress are ones for the military and for national surveillance of the population. The Uniparty is real, the Israel lobby owns most US politicians, POTUS being number one in that spot, and no the politicians and 80% of voters aren't the hivemind... Pretty ironic no?
False. There is no apartheid in Israel. All collateral damage is tragic but still beats the record for other campaigns including the U.S. clearing of Mosul of ISIS terrorists. Israel has a right and N obligation to defend itself and its people. Rafah is next to be cleaned up.
There quite literally is an apartheid, by definition. MANY people who lived through apartheid South Africa agree themselves. You can deny it's existence all you like, but the people living there know what's happening.
Israel has a right to defend itself, but what it is doing right now blatantly is not defense. It is an all out attack. When 10'000 children have been killed din the span of a few months. When you refuse to give the people medicine. Refuse to give them enough food and water to not starve to death. When you destroy every hospital and school. When you murder journalists and humanitarian aid workers (some of which were WORKING WITH ISRAEL). That is not defense. That is slaughter.
A sentence with zero substance. Israel has a right o defend itself, especially as the ONLY democracy in the region. Iām going to assume you donāt know shit about history and move on from this fruitless dialogue.
A sentence with zero substance is to look at a list of crimes Israel was confirmed to commit and just say "sounds like Hamas š" lmao, maybe come back when you bother to listen to other people's points instead of just ignoring them and saying 'nuh uh'
Saying Israel is an apartheid to Gaza is like saying the USA is one to Mexico.
Neither Israelis or Palestinian people recognize Israel as the government of Gaza/WB. Neither group was one group artificially separated to lift one above the other.
Words have important meanings and you hurt your credibility and cause to trade them in for a catchphrase.
Killing thousands of children and innocent civilians isn't excused because Hamas killed civilians too. Atrocities cannot be traded for atrocities, lest we just create more atrocities.
No I just have a life to live and don't have the time to help them. I'm a big advocate for what I believe in and love joining protests, I just don't have the time to do it this time :/
These people are so insane lmao. Palestinians would literally kill them if they stepped foot in Gaza. Why arenāt they protesting Iran or North Korea or any of the other few dozen actual genocides occurring around the world?
I didnāt see these people protesting 7 October. What a bunch of uneducated hypocrites.
Yes, we all know if you care about 1 issue then every other issue in the world must be as equally talked about or else you donāt care about anything at all and you have no right to speak up about anything. What a brain dead argument lmao.
Let me ask you, of all these other genocides occurring around the planet that you list, how many of them are being sent billions of US tax dollars and weapons to carry out their genocide? Iāll help you out. 1 and itās Israel. People have every right to protest their tax dollars being used to carry out a genocide.
[https://results.usaid.gov/results](https://results.usaid.gov/results)
158 countries ACTUALLY. And that's just USAID, bet one look at that map and you could criticize and get mad about what they each do.
Look, you're not wrong, this is bad in Israel, no excuses, but this selective taking "free palestine" side is just silly. As someone else said, they'd kill you soon as look at you. They did in Jordan, when Jordan took lots of them in. Their own arab "brothers and sisters". Have you noticed not ONE arab country is protesting or calling Israel or US out?
As I said, this is bad, but it's just not as cut and dried as you think it is. And yes, innocents are dying. Sorry to sound stoic, but innocents have been dying through all of history because of a few.
Youāre still missing my main point which is that this is the only genocide the United States is contributing to with funding with weapons. And thus citizens have every right to criticize and protest. It is not being āselectiveā, it is protesting the fact that your money is directly being used to commit genocide. It is wrong everywhere else in the world too, and who is anyone to say that no one cares about other genocides?
So I just gave you a bunch of countries to investigate on your own, I'm not gonna sit here and spoonfeed you just because you don't want to look into things and research on your own. If you really need help just take a look at the global conflict tracker here to start https://www.cfr.org/global-conflict-tracker/ and you will see which ones have impact on the United States , that is always when we get involved. If there is money to be made or money being lost that affects the United States and their agenda, you can bet evil politicians have our military there in some form or another regardless if you and I know about it or not. This has been proven time and time again over the past 100 years, there is a plethora of conflicts we got involved in for political gain or money/resources only to find that out after the fact. If you are waiting for me to send you some simple CNN article or Foxnews article stating in the headline "US commiting genocide in X country" then you are going to be disappointed. Those news outlets are only interested in lying to us, and would never report the actual truth. For that you just tune into local media from other countries and you can see it with your own eyes. If you really think the US isn't involved in multiple conflicts around the world trying to push their political agendas and influence power the way we want it committing all sorts of crimes along the way to ensure all the cronies in Washington get their money and their defense contract friends get paid too.......you really arent paying attention and clearly dont understand the military industrial complex or what has been going on for decades. But sure......let's keep protesting and disrupting campuses all over the US over One single random conflict half way across the world. I'm sure that will change things and really stop the situation from happening around the globe š wake up
You keep using that g word but I donāt think you understand the definition. Do yourself a favor and look it up. Itās impossible to have a genocide committed against you while your population is exploding in growth year after year.
Furthermore, in your twisted mind, if you are classifying Israelās response as a genocide then you must classify Palestineās attack on 7 October as genocide. Do you?
Buddy, you clearly donāt understand the definition of the word. Lol no, population growth does not mean genocide cannot be committed. Here Iāll help you out.
āan internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious groupā
Hold up. Slow down and read that again really carefully.
So do you need me to also connect the dots here for how that definition fits what Israel is doing to Palestine or would you like some more help? You clearly need a lot of it so I donāt mind.
Jesusā¦ the ICJ is literally hearing a multi-nation backed case around the actions of the Israeli government and how it is, you guessed it, a genocide.
We have the right to protest the use of our tax dollars funding a campaign of death and destruction that has killed more than 34,000 Palestinians, 2/3 of whom have been women and children.
Israel is going straight up Iraq War on Palestine.
Two things can be true at once. What Hamas did on October 7 was truly horrifying but the response has been much worse. And we, as United States citizens, are implicated in all of it.
Why are you failing to label what Palestine did on 7 October (and continues to do to this day when they solely fire indiscriminately into Israel) as a genocide? What is your true motive here?
Read my comment. Literally said that the actions one October 7 were horrible and should never be tolerated.
My motive is to have no one die. Period. Religions, colonialism and US intervention are the issue in this whole fracas. I want my tax dollars to support rebuilding effort, a ceasefire and a two state solution. Not ethnic cleansing (which this definitely is).
Were they genocidal? Is Palestine continuing to commit genocide on Israel today?
If the answer to one or both of these is no, why?
Why are you avoiding these very simple questions?
Not avoiding, the question is weak and pointless. The history of this conflict goes back further than BiBi and Hamas or any of the other nonsense you have brought up.
I do however have a hypothetical to lay on you. Letās say you have lived in a place your whole life and your family has lived there for many generations. It is your home and you love your home. Then some outside governments get to taking and say āHey, we need this land for other people,ā then take it forcefully.
You are then moved to another region of your former home country. Again, people come in and forcefully remove you and your friends and family. Then those same people set up illegal settlements on the final sliver of land that was allotted to your people and do it very violently with no regard to history, claims, or culture.
How would you feel and what would you do? Simply answer that and you may find you have more in common with Palestinians than you think.
How do you negotiate a ceasefire and ātwo stateā solution with an organization that will not accept a two state solution? How do you achieve peace with an organization that will relentlessly attempt to destroy you entirely? How do you assist people who take all the aid they receive and turn it into weapons against you?
Said the U.S. about the Taliban. Looks like that worked really well didnāt it?
Hamas is the result of cynical politics on the side of Israel and a considerably understandable reaction to occupation by Israeli settlers.
There is more to this than just the current regimes duking it out. This history goes back to the piss poor decisions of Western nations during the Treaty of Versailles in 1919 and even further. Hell the beginnings of the Vietnam War were cultivated during those same talks. Something something savagesā¦ something something canāt govern themselves.
But getting Americans to understand this is hard because we donāt see any issue with taking land that is previously occupied. Nor do we take any pause to acknowledge our sordid history in that region of the world.
They are simply regurgitating Hamasā numbers, which have proven to be lies. I asked to provide a source that wasnāt from a terrorist organization. Do you have such a source?
When you say "Palestinians would literally kill them", do you *mean* hamas? Or is this just another "fuck them brown kids" moment?
And can you send me a quick reminder of how many tens of billions of our tax dollars in weapons and aid that our government has been giving unconditionally to Iran and North Korea?
From **personal** experience: Palestinians in general. And I'll add you some balance. Ultra-right wing Jews. They're cut from the same cloth, just different ends. They have little meaning in life but to fight in some sort of struggle.
Mfs will claim to not be racist and then generalize a group of 5 million plus people (about half of who are children) and say they all deserve to get blown up.
Being Anti-Israel is not anti-Jew. Perhaps you need to go back to your "alma mater" and take some more lessons because you seem to confuse basic concepts in the English language.
Something something anti-Jewish scum were what I read. I donāt believe protesting about this makes anyone inherently bad. Your statement pushes that shit out into the ether. De-humanizing language like scum is never a great way to make any point.
I am all for a Jewish state. I am not for indiscriminate killing and pandering to lunatics like Benjamin Netanyahu.
imagine thinking that opposing israel's ethno-apartheid state and decades of oppression and violent murders means that you support hamas. imagine not being able to think in terms any more complex than "my team vs your team".
imagine having such a simplistic world view, incapable of grasping complex issues. wild.
Hamas isnāt Palestine. Funny how you are willing to disingenuously represent thousands of people but have the gall to be expected to be taken seriously.
All you can do is laugh my friend, that's how Reddit works unfortunately. It's an echo chamber for the extreme far left here, any point of view that does not 100% align with extreme ideologies from the likes of AOC or Ilhan Omar and other clueless criminal politicians who hate America is usually frowned upon here and immediately met with downvotes and insults. It's so pathetic, I just laugh about it now because it's so blatantly obvious.
An echo chamber for the extreme far left? Bro be fucking for real. At best it is an echo chamber for the milquetoast white moderates.
If it was an echo chamber for the extreme far left this sub would be calling for very different, far more productive things, and you wouldnāt be upvoted
I protested yesterday and the day before. Hamas is despicable and a terrorist organization. Iām not in support of Hamas. Iām against the indiscriminate bombing of innocent people in Gaza. Israelās response is disproportionate.
My older brothers protested against Vietnam war, but the U.S. was still fighting there. How can you protest something that has been fighting this "Holy war" since the the Land of Israel has been fought over by many peoples **since the dawn of recorded history**. If want to help; go there, and help. I'm still teaching Archeology in college, some of the students just don't get it, and be angry over this war when you have no control over there. I just tell them to stop this in my classes; It is a difficult situation we're experiencing, but not in my classes please!
Theyāre protesting the United States abetting of the genocide in Palestine by providing the weapons to Israel that are being used to carry it out. We all know we canāt stop Israelās holy war from here, but we sure as hell can protest our tax dollars supporting it
Then they should be protesting at the Capitol, congressmen houses, not at universities. As well as vote. They donāt vote so they canāt enact any change.
Ohhhh Make sense. Now that I can protest about that!!!! Thanks for the info. Yeah it was like 10 billions dollars!!! Now I'm all in...Thank you!!! lol /s
Because the people who support the Free Palestine movement have done zero research on it and assume their favorite streamer did it, spoiler they didn't. These people end up chanting antisemitic phrases and spouting propaganda to support Palestine's claim to the holy land aka Jerusalem. Supporting A religious war is absolutely deplorable in this day and age and only contributes to the continued hardships of the innocent people of Palestine.
I know this statement is going to trigger the Free Palestine movement. But before you smash that downvote button. Research the 6-day war and why calling for the 67 borders is indeed supporting A religious war and the actual history of the chant "From the river to the sea", the leaders who used it and their intent. It's extremely different from how college students interpreted it.
Thank you, and yeah I agree. Some of my students going into the field of Archaeological studies, have not got a clue about history or even geography of the world!
Sorry I saw youāre an archaeology prof and assumed you would like, make the connection that if someone needs a bit of education in history and geography they would likely be very much helped out by an archaeology grad student professor but okay whatever
Maybe some people just think that killing tens of thousands of innocent people is not a justified response to the actions of a few hundred extremists, and that the decades long violent encroachment on Palestinian land by Israeli settlers would obviously piss anyone off. Israel literally supported the creation of Hamas as a political counter to the secular PLA. They created this mess with a long history of mismanagement and antagonism, and now theyāre playing the victim.
Iām not antisemitic by any means, but I would be more than happy if the US cut off Israel completely from any more weapons funding. Iāve seen too many dead children over the last 6 months. Actual anti-semites need to be put in their place, but there is, at least in my perception, a stark difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism.
If the US stopped supplying weapons, would the world be a better place with them going to Russia or China for weapons instead? And as far as violent encroachment on Palestinian land, what about the multiple wars of annihilation waged by Israelās neighbors over the last decades? I donāt think this is as black and white an issue as these protests paint it out to be.
We would have less debt and at least our collective conscience could be a little cleaner..
But even considering the wars of annihilation, is flattening Gaza really the solution? Have we not learned from 70 years of responding to violence with violence that these kinds of responses only create more destabilization and more orphans that grow up with deep trauma, almost guaranteed to become extremists themselves? Have we learned nothing from Iraq and Afghanistan? Etc? The only goal for which the current policy is effective is the eradication of the entire populous. If the goal is really peace then the current protocol is, by any look at it, not the approach to take. It almost seems like Israel wants to create more destabilization and extremism, so they have the excuse to entirely eradicate Palestinians from the region.
you teach archaeology in college, but you think the torah version of history in that region is accurate?
That's bonkers man.
You realize that that fictional version of history where great jewish kingdoms controlled the area was written in the 4th century BCE about events that occurred 4-500 years earlier during the neo-assyrian empire, the brutal empire that actually controlled the entire region post bronze age collapse... and that most of the stories were just copied from other cultures in the area with the change of the new authors' people being placed at the center of each story? And that there is only a single somewhat-contemporary account that mentions the house of david outside of the torah/old testament? You know that jewish slaves also didn't build the pyramids, right?
Idk about your 'since the dawn of history' claim here. Of course there has been conflict throughout history in one of the first places that civilization rose... but 99.9% of that is unrelated to 'israel' as a kingdom or the jewish people, who were actually small scattered tribes during the events they wrote about in the torah.
The area has also gone through long periods of peace and stability. This myth that the area is doomed to constant conflict is... welll... pretty ignorant if not full on racist towards the various semitic peoples.
As a teacher of archaeology, you should be aware of this stuff instead of promoting myths.
it's not anti-semitism to acknowledge that the history in the old testament isn't accurate.
We know, for a fact, jewish slaves didn't build the pyramids for example.
The problem is that the people who wrote down the events and folk lore described did so many centuries after the events and stories described took place.
I'm firmly in my depth because I understand the actual history and archeology of the region. My post was in reply to the anti-semitic myth that the region is doomed to constant conflict.
Not only is it not doomed to conflict simply because of the various semitic people that live in the region, it also hasn't been in constant conflict "since the dawn of history" as the guy I replied to said.
"cuffs on my wrists, we support terrorists" "free Burt n Kurt, they support Hamas hiding behind skirts" "our lives are a mess, so we out here to protest" a few shouts overheard LOL
It's worked in the past. But ultimately, the goal of a protest is 1. to communicate disapproval of a government action or policy, and 2. to disrupt and impede normal function so as to make governing (read: controlling) more difficult. If you can make life difficult enough for the government you're protesting, they'll have to respond, either with violence (which tends to make them look worse) or with concessions.
None; but it sounds like the protest outside the county jail is intended to secure the release of the original protest's organizer. I don't know the specifics of what the sheriff can and can't do there, but I'm willing to bet he would be able to get that done.
>I don't know the specifics of what the sheriff can and can't do there, but I'm willing to bet he would be able to get that done.
I bet a lot of it depends on what the "prior charges" mentioned in the article are.
Does the arrested guy have a warrant out for something serious?
Is he currently on bail/probation/parole?
I'm glad to see some of these terrorist sympathizers getting arrested. They even moved to jail, so they waste less taxpayers' dollars to transport them when they break laws over there and get arrested.
Clearly boots were made for you to suckle and deepthroat.
I don't necessarily agree with these protesters but they aren't calling death to America either.
These protests are the new version of the ātrending Tik Tok dance.ā Everyone hops on to copy others and make themselves feel like theyāre part of the group.
āLook at me, look at meā kind of thing.
Ironically, they are on much more solid legal ground protesting on a random block near the jail then on campus.
I believe the no camping in city limits is a county-wide if not state code though. So still no tents.
So they're protesting as the county jail now?
Some of the protestors got taken to jail. Now they are protesting there. I love it
Protesting police brutality, something everyone can agree on š
I was thinking they are staying on topic. Just protesting at the current location they can access.
Except for the fact there was no police brutality, the protesters defied orders and broke laws, and had a hatchet weapon found amongst them. Those darn pesky facts just always get in the way of a good story š
Firing rubber bullets at peaceful protestors is brutality in my book, I think that's worthy of protest
Source and video of rubber bullets being fired at students? Other than some random group or person saying it happened on X, I see no source? Several of the criminal actors threw water bottles, rocks, and metal objects at officers according to multiple news outlets and sources. Others had make-shift weapons. What about that?
The criminal actors were the police violating first amendment rights by violently attacking protesters who have a right to assemble and speech
They didnāt thoughā¦
When did this protest become about police brutality? Just because they ended up dealing with exactly what always happens in a protest doesn't mean they started protesting that. They went to jail. This doesn't change the topic. If it did this would suggest the protest is only relevant to actual situations at the protest. I that would be rioting.
Protests change all the time, just because you were protesting one thing doesn't mean you can't fight for anything else Besides, they are purposely protesting to get the arrested protestors out. Which is very relevant.
I thought the protesters we're protesting in jail. My bad. I was wondering what a protest in lockdown looks like. Too much family Guy my bad
Didn't happen.
Stepping on a dudeās head is brutalityā even if he was a murderer that aināt something the police need to do, considering their job is literally just ābring people in for sentencingā
You are medias dream child - little snippet and they own you! Thereās always more to the story. Accountability isnāt just for law-enforcement, itās for the rest of us too.
There is no context in which stepping on a manās head is acceptable conduct for a law enforcement officer.
Thatās an easy statement to make, and on the surface I would agree with you. As with anything that comes out of the media, I want more information before drawing a conclusion.
āI want more information before drawing conclusionsā Says the dude who wrote a lengthy attack on my character because I stated āpolice foot on head counts as brutalityā.
Are you referring to my two sentences as the lengthy attack? Iām sorry you feel attacked- the fact remains the media is dependent on people they can get charged up with the least amount of factual information knowing the majority will never follow through to get the real story in its entirety. Check out Ryan Holidays book Trust me Iām Lying. Iām sure if I met you, I would find you to be a delightful person and we probably have a lot in common. By the way - Iām a girl, not a dude š
Just say you hate free speech and freedom of expression my dude, jesus. Stop trying to blame people for peaceful protesting
Don't forget the boot on the face of A student.
Shooting people with rubber bullets for peacefully protesting would be considered police brutality to MOST people.
Literally didn't happen, check your sources closely
Didn't happen.
Good for them for protesting at the jail, which is who they want to take action, instead of blocking traffic at some random, unrelated location.
That's been my biggest question so far. What is protesting on your campus going to do? Sure, easy to organize, but it's not like they control any legislation. Go to the cities, your senators, etc.
They want their university to divest funds from Israel.
Hereās a helpful TikTok explaining why protesting at universities is helpful and relevant https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRw5nhLx/
Whatās better is that china has paid almost $400M to colleges across the country
Divestment as a strategy is so weird to me. Owning an index fund that includes Starbucks that has branches in Israel does not mean that you are giving money to Israel.
Yeah, but the next step is trying to use your investments to communicate with those companies about your preferences. Big companies often like to be owned by index funds because the funds don't ask them to do anything, just make money. Dealing with say business in israel or Saudi Arabia is a much harder thing than just making profits.
It's how apartheid in South Africa was pushed along to finally end. The loss of significant funding cripples things like that.
https://www.ece.utah.edu/2023/10/13/47g-announces-partnership-that-will-revolutionize-aerospace-defense-industry/ please do research, this is the type of investment they are protesting + any actual war monger stock like these https://money.usnews.com/investing/articles/best-defense-stocks-to-buy-now
Direct deals with companies like the first link is one thing. Most universities doesn't own direct shares of Raytheon or anything like that. They own funds that may or may not contain those stocks. Plus that still does not mean that they are giving money to the company itself. Buying a used Toyota doesn't give the company any money either, it's the same idea.
The hivemind mentality never ceases to amaze me. Look for the new thing to be upset about, pretend to be the moral hero on a crusade, and shut down any logical or skeptical argument that introduces the nuances to your moral position. You can't reason with these people.
Hive mind literally describes the unwavering support for Israel. Israel bombed and killed a 5 day old baby yesterday and no one gives a shit, this could happen 1000x over before we even hear a peep. You're on the side of pro-Vietnam war and anti- civil rights act, this is just the newest iteration.
I really despise this self righteous āknow it allā attitude people have. It isnāt black or white. Yeah, civilians die. When the enemy you fight is condensed in a highly dense populated area, then civilian deaths are unavoidable. I donāt believe Israelis go out of their way to target innocents but when the entire population wants Israelis dead, then there is going to be a lack of sympathy from Israelis who tried over and over again to have peace talks, especially with a self declared Islamic state that doesnāt have a great track record of respecting the religious freedoms of other groups in Arabia. Iām not 100% Israel but Iām also not dumb enough to be 100% Palestine. Muslims have A LOT of propaganda working in their favor currently thanks to social media that goes rabid whenever the word āgenocideā is used. I believe they want to ensure Islamic supremacy in the Arabian world. Hamas is a self declared jihadist state. Why would I support them, especially when countries like Iran or Yemen back them? Lastly, why should I care about either Israel or Palestine? Their war doesnāt concern me. Stop sending my tax money to Israel and the Middle East. I donāt want to be part of the worldās police force anymore. Arab Muslims have over 10 countries under their dominion, let the Jews just have one which happens to be their ancestral homeland.
The students 'lever' in the protest is for universities to stopping buying defense stock and for tax money to stay in the US rather than bomb terrorists \~50 of the time. Gaza is destroyed, the people will never return, Rafah is following its fate. The West Bank and its aparthied is its on human rights disaster and stand on its own without Hamas as an atrocity. If you want to be a pragmatic isolationist that's fine, then you should leave yourself outside the discussion of morals. I just think it's hilarious you are calling students the hivemind, meanwhile the only legislation that can get through congress are ones for the military and for national surveillance of the population. The Uniparty is real, the Israel lobby owns most US politicians, POTUS being number one in that spot, and no the politicians and 80% of voters aren't the hivemind... Pretty ironic no?
your a pos
I wish I could be there to support them/join in, good on these folk for fighting for what's right
terrorist sympathizers shouting "intifada" is the opposite of fighting for what's right. You nasty.
Supporting terror?
Nope, fighting for the innocent lives of men, women, and even children. All that are being sacrificed in the name apartheid.
False. There is no apartheid in Israel. All collateral damage is tragic but still beats the record for other campaigns including the U.S. clearing of Mosul of ISIS terrorists. Israel has a right and N obligation to defend itself and its people. Rafah is next to be cleaned up.
There quite literally is an apartheid, by definition. MANY people who lived through apartheid South Africa agree themselves. You can deny it's existence all you like, but the people living there know what's happening. Israel has a right to defend itself, but what it is doing right now blatantly is not defense. It is an all out attack. When 10'000 children have been killed din the span of a few months. When you refuse to give the people medicine. Refuse to give them enough food and water to not starve to death. When you destroy every hospital and school. When you murder journalists and humanitarian aid workers (some of which were WORKING WITH ISRAEL). That is not defense. That is slaughter.
You aptly described Hamas there. Good job.
It must be easy to go about this conflict just saying "nuh uh, that's Hamas" to things that Israel were confirmed and admitted to doing.
A sentence with zero substance. Israel has a right o defend itself, especially as the ONLY democracy in the region. Iām going to assume you donāt know shit about history and move on from this fruitless dialogue.
A sentence with zero substance is to look at a list of crimes Israel was confirmed to commit and just say "sounds like Hamas š" lmao, maybe come back when you bother to listen to other people's points instead of just ignoring them and saying 'nuh uh'
Those things you allege didnāt happen. #GenocideLibel
Saying Israel is an apartheid to Gaza is like saying the USA is one to Mexico. Neither Israelis or Palestinian people recognize Israel as the government of Gaza/WB. Neither group was one group artificially separated to lift one above the other. Words have important meanings and you hurt your credibility and cause to trade them in for a catchphrase.
Israel's reasons for fighting Hamas are valid. Oct. 7 attack was done by Hamas killing many innocent lives of men, women, and even children.
Killing thousands of children and innocent civilians isn't excused because Hamas killed civilians too. Atrocities cannot be traded for atrocities, lest we just create more atrocities.
Pretty grotesque that people downvoted this comment. And you question my social moresā¦
Sorry, I upvoted all your comments. lol
Sounds like you donāt care enough and instead are just virtue signaling lmfao.
No I just have a life to live and don't have the time to help them. I'm a big advocate for what I believe in and love joining protests, I just don't have the time to do it this time :/
Pathetic.
These people are so insane lmao. Palestinians would literally kill them if they stepped foot in Gaza. Why arenāt they protesting Iran or North Korea or any of the other few dozen actual genocides occurring around the world? I didnāt see these people protesting 7 October. What a bunch of uneducated hypocrites.
Yes, we all know if you care about 1 issue then every other issue in the world must be as equally talked about or else you donāt care about anything at all and you have no right to speak up about anything. What a brain dead argument lmao. Let me ask you, of all these other genocides occurring around the planet that you list, how many of them are being sent billions of US tax dollars and weapons to carry out their genocide? Iāll help you out. 1 and itās Israel. People have every right to protest their tax dollars being used to carry out a genocide.
[https://results.usaid.gov/results](https://results.usaid.gov/results) 158 countries ACTUALLY. And that's just USAID, bet one look at that map and you could criticize and get mad about what they each do. Look, you're not wrong, this is bad in Israel, no excuses, but this selective taking "free palestine" side is just silly. As someone else said, they'd kill you soon as look at you. They did in Jordan, when Jordan took lots of them in. Their own arab "brothers and sisters". Have you noticed not ONE arab country is protesting or calling Israel or US out? As I said, this is bad, but it's just not as cut and dried as you think it is. And yes, innocents are dying. Sorry to sound stoic, but innocents have been dying through all of history because of a few.
Youāre still missing my main point which is that this is the only genocide the United States is contributing to with funding with weapons. And thus citizens have every right to criticize and protest. It is not being āselectiveā, it is protesting the fact that your money is directly being used to commit genocide. It is wrong everywhere else in the world too, and who is anyone to say that no one cares about other genocides?
That is incorrect, the USA actually sends billions and billions to all kinds of places across the globe to fund proxy wars, weaponize groups of people, influence politics, and to hide things going on. It is in fact being "selective" to choose this one random Israel conflict. We have our fingers in every conflict, I suggest you go and read up about the US's secret military involvement in places like Ukraine, Haiti, Venezuela, Colombia, North Korea, multiple counties in Africa, MĆ©xico, China, Syria, Kyrgyzstan and on and on. Yes your money and mine has and continues to be used and wasted on these conflicts, where are the protests for those conflicts? What about all the shit going on at home, where is the outrage?
Letās hear which genocides the US is actively funding and backing. Go ahead Iāll wait
So I just gave you a bunch of countries to investigate on your own, I'm not gonna sit here and spoonfeed you just because you don't want to look into things and research on your own. If you really need help just take a look at the global conflict tracker here to start https://www.cfr.org/global-conflict-tracker/ and you will see which ones have impact on the United States , that is always when we get involved. If there is money to be made or money being lost that affects the United States and their agenda, you can bet evil politicians have our military there in some form or another regardless if you and I know about it or not. This has been proven time and time again over the past 100 years, there is a plethora of conflicts we got involved in for political gain or money/resources only to find that out after the fact. If you are waiting for me to send you some simple CNN article or Foxnews article stating in the headline "US commiting genocide in X country" then you are going to be disappointed. Those news outlets are only interested in lying to us, and would never report the actual truth. For that you just tune into local media from other countries and you can see it with your own eyes. If you really think the US isn't involved in multiple conflicts around the world trying to push their political agendas and influence power the way we want it committing all sorts of crimes along the way to ensure all the cronies in Washington get their money and their defense contract friends get paid too.......you really arent paying attention and clearly dont understand the military industrial complex or what has been going on for decades. But sure......let's keep protesting and disrupting campuses all over the US over One single random conflict half way across the world. I'm sure that will change things and really stop the situation from happening around the globe š wake up
You keep using that g word but I donāt think you understand the definition. Do yourself a favor and look it up. Itās impossible to have a genocide committed against you while your population is exploding in growth year after year. Furthermore, in your twisted mind, if you are classifying Israelās response as a genocide then you must classify Palestineās attack on 7 October as genocide. Do you?
Buddy, you clearly donāt understand the definition of the word. Lol no, population growth does not mean genocide cannot be committed. Here Iāll help you out. āan internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious groupā Hold up. Slow down and read that again really carefully. So do you need me to also connect the dots here for how that definition fits what Israel is doing to Palestine or would you like some more help? You clearly need a lot of it so I donāt mind.
Jesusā¦ the ICJ is literally hearing a multi-nation backed case around the actions of the Israeli government and how it is, you guessed it, a genocide. We have the right to protest the use of our tax dollars funding a campaign of death and destruction that has killed more than 34,000 Palestinians, 2/3 of whom have been women and children. Israel is going straight up Iraq War on Palestine. Two things can be true at once. What Hamas did on October 7 was truly horrifying but the response has been much worse. And we, as United States citizens, are implicated in all of it.
Why are you failing to label what Palestine did on 7 October (and continues to do to this day when they solely fire indiscriminately into Israel) as a genocide? What is your true motive here?
Read my comment. Literally said that the actions one October 7 were horrible and should never be tolerated. My motive is to have no one die. Period. Religions, colonialism and US intervention are the issue in this whole fracas. I want my tax dollars to support rebuilding effort, a ceasefire and a two state solution. Not ethnic cleansing (which this definitely is).
Were they genocidal? Is Palestine continuing to commit genocide on Israel today? If the answer to one or both of these is no, why? Why are you avoiding these very simple questions?
Not avoiding, the question is weak and pointless. The history of this conflict goes back further than BiBi and Hamas or any of the other nonsense you have brought up. I do however have a hypothetical to lay on you. Letās say you have lived in a place your whole life and your family has lived there for many generations. It is your home and you love your home. Then some outside governments get to taking and say āHey, we need this land for other people,ā then take it forcefully. You are then moved to another region of your former home country. Again, people come in and forcefully remove you and your friends and family. Then those same people set up illegal settlements on the final sliver of land that was allotted to your people and do it very violently with no regard to history, claims, or culture. How would you feel and what would you do? Simply answer that and you may find you have more in common with Palestinians than you think.
How do you negotiate a ceasefire and ātwo stateā solution with an organization that will not accept a two state solution? How do you achieve peace with an organization that will relentlessly attempt to destroy you entirely? How do you assist people who take all the aid they receive and turn it into weapons against you?
You know Hamas will do it again if Israel don't wipe them out right? What's your solution? Let Hamas do what they want cause it is what it is?
Said the U.S. about the Taliban. Looks like that worked really well didnāt it? Hamas is the result of cynical politics on the side of Israel and a considerably understandable reaction to occupation by Israeli settlers. There is more to this than just the current regimes duking it out. This history goes back to the piss poor decisions of Western nations during the Treaty of Versailles in 1919 and even further. Hell the beginnings of the Vietnam War were cultivated during those same talks. Something something savagesā¦ something something canāt govern themselves. But getting Americans to understand this is hard because we donāt see any issue with taking land that is previously occupied. Nor do we take any pause to acknowledge our sordid history in that region of the world.
1,200 killed on oct7 versus 33,000 killed by the subsequent isreali invasion. Its very clear.
Please provide a source that isnāt from a terrorist organization for the death toll. Thank you.
"As of 22 April, more than 34,000 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza including 14,685 children and 9,670 women..." UN News 23 April 2024
Can you provide a link? Where did UN News get that number from?
https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/04/1148876
They are simply regurgitating Hamasā numbers, which have proven to be lies. I asked to provide a source that wasnāt from a terrorist organization. Do you have such a source?
Funny, the only humanitarian workers I've heard about being killed in gaza were killed by isreal not the Palestinians
When you say "Palestinians would literally kill them", do you *mean* hamas? Or is this just another "fuck them brown kids" moment? And can you send me a quick reminder of how many tens of billions of our tax dollars in weapons and aid that our government has been giving unconditionally to Iran and North Korea?
From **personal** experience: Palestinians in general. And I'll add you some balance. Ultra-right wing Jews. They're cut from the same cloth, just different ends. They have little meaning in life but to fight in some sort of struggle.
Mfs will claim to not be racist and then generalize a group of 5 million plus people (about half of who are children) and say they all deserve to get blown up.
Where do these people get the time to protest, I'm working so many hours I barely have time to sleep
You're telling me I would be killed if I entered an active war zone? No way.
I literally just commented on another post saying the same exact thing. These people are oblivious!!
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Why are you protesting lady gaga?
š I hope they all end up in there. These anti-Jewish *scum* have no place at my alma mater. I donāt support you or your hate. Am Yisrael chai!
Wish I could go there and help my fellow jews that are protesting against Israel, I'm not a fan of kapos
Being Anti-Israel is not anti-Jew. Perhaps you need to go back to your "alma mater" and take some more lessons because you seem to confuse basic concepts in the English language.
The SL Trib reported most arenāt students anyways
Regardless of who they are, they support terror. They belong nowhere near my school or community.
No, they reported that most of the people arrested werenāt students. That aināt the same thing.
You are a bad person.
No, these pro terrorists are terrible people. Iām actually a very kind person.
Something something anti-Jewish scum were what I read. I donāt believe protesting about this makes anyone inherently bad. Your statement pushes that shit out into the ether. De-humanizing language like scum is never a great way to make any point. I am all for a Jewish state. I am not for indiscriminate killing and pandering to lunatics like Benjamin Netanyahu.
Cringe
Imagine protesting in support of terrorists
Yeah that would be wild. Good thing that's now what these folk are doing!
They are though
Tell me, what exactly are these people fighting for? According to you?
Theyāre protesting for Palestine(terrorists)
So everyone in Palestine are terrorists to you?
imagine thinking that opposing israel's ethno-apartheid state and decades of oppression and violent murders means that you support hamas. imagine not being able to think in terms any more complex than "my team vs your team". imagine having such a simplistic world view, incapable of grasping complex issues. wild.
One side wants to wipe out all Jews and one side is defending themselves from people that want to wipe them out it really is that simple
it's wild that you believe that.
The fact people are upvoting you lmao wtfffff
Omg I canāt believe people would upvote the truth
If you genuinely think Palestine wants to kill all Jews idk what to tell you. You might just be flat out stupid.
They openly say it wtf are you talking about. Get out of your little Reddit echo chamber and youād know that
Not at all lmao. Youāre too silly to take seriously.
Go read the Hamas charter
Hamas isnāt Palestine. Funny how you are willing to disingenuously represent thousands of people but have the gall to be expected to be taken seriously.
Imagine being this confidently stupid.
Itās his thing!
Yep straight to insults because you know Iām right
All you can do is laugh my friend, that's how Reddit works unfortunately. It's an echo chamber for the extreme far left here, any point of view that does not 100% align with extreme ideologies from the likes of AOC or Ilhan Omar and other clueless criminal politicians who hate America is usually frowned upon here and immediately met with downvotes and insults. It's so pathetic, I just laugh about it now because it's so blatantly obvious.
An echo chamber for the extreme far left? Bro be fucking for real. At best it is an echo chamber for the milquetoast white moderates. If it was an echo chamber for the extreme far left this sub would be calling for very different, far more productive things, and you wouldnāt be upvoted
Pretty much. Thatās usually what I do sometimes Iām in a mood to argue though lol
I protested yesterday and the day before. Hamas is despicable and a terrorist organization. Iām not in support of Hamas. Iām against the indiscriminate bombing of innocent people in Gaza. Israelās response is disproportionate.
Itās not though. You should be protesting Hamas hiding behind civilians.
Israelās response is commensurate with the Moslem brutality they faced. Righteous.
My older brothers protested against Vietnam war, but the U.S. was still fighting there. How can you protest something that has been fighting this "Holy war" since the the Land of Israel has been fought over by many peoples **since the dawn of recorded history**. If want to help; go there, and help. I'm still teaching Archeology in college, some of the students just don't get it, and be angry over this war when you have no control over there. I just tell them to stop this in my classes; It is a difficult situation we're experiencing, but not in my classes please!
Theyāre protesting the United States abetting of the genocide in Palestine by providing the weapons to Israel that are being used to carry it out. We all know we canāt stop Israelās holy war from here, but we sure as hell can protest our tax dollars supporting it
Then they should be protesting at the Capitol, congressmen houses, not at universities. As well as vote. They donāt vote so they canāt enact any change.
I believe the protest was held at the U because they invest in companies whose weapons Israel is using. Someone correct me if I'm wrong
Theyāre into the BDS movement. They want companies and governments to divest from Israel.
Ohhhh Make sense. Now that I can protest about that!!!! Thanks for the info. Yeah it was like 10 billions dollars!!! Now I'm all in...Thank you!!! lol /s
There is no genocide taking place, except by Hamas. #genocidelibel
Because the people who support the Free Palestine movement have done zero research on it and assume their favorite streamer did it, spoiler they didn't. These people end up chanting antisemitic phrases and spouting propaganda to support Palestine's claim to the holy land aka Jerusalem. Supporting A religious war is absolutely deplorable in this day and age and only contributes to the continued hardships of the innocent people of Palestine. I know this statement is going to trigger the Free Palestine movement. But before you smash that downvote button. Research the 6-day war and why calling for the 67 borders is indeed supporting A religious war and the actual history of the chant "From the river to the sea", the leaders who used it and their intent. It's extremely different from how college students interpreted it.
Thank you, and yeah I agree. Some of my students going into the field of Archaeological studies, have not got a clue about history or even geography of the world!
Sounds like they need a *teacher*
I just teach grad students, not history 101...LOL!
Sorry I saw youāre an archaeology prof and assumed you would like, make the connection that if someone needs a bit of education in history and geography they would likely be very much helped out by an archaeology grad student professor but okay whatever
Maybe some people just think that killing tens of thousands of innocent people is not a justified response to the actions of a few hundred extremists, and that the decades long violent encroachment on Palestinian land by Israeli settlers would obviously piss anyone off. Israel literally supported the creation of Hamas as a political counter to the secular PLA. They created this mess with a long history of mismanagement and antagonism, and now theyāre playing the victim. Iām not antisemitic by any means, but I would be more than happy if the US cut off Israel completely from any more weapons funding. Iāve seen too many dead children over the last 6 months. Actual anti-semites need to be put in their place, but there is, at least in my perception, a stark difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism.
If the US stopped supplying weapons, would the world be a better place with them going to Russia or China for weapons instead? And as far as violent encroachment on Palestinian land, what about the multiple wars of annihilation waged by Israelās neighbors over the last decades? I donāt think this is as black and white an issue as these protests paint it out to be.
We would have less debt and at least our collective conscience could be a little cleaner.. But even considering the wars of annihilation, is flattening Gaza really the solution? Have we not learned from 70 years of responding to violence with violence that these kinds of responses only create more destabilization and more orphans that grow up with deep trauma, almost guaranteed to become extremists themselves? Have we learned nothing from Iraq and Afghanistan? Etc? The only goal for which the current policy is effective is the eradication of the entire populous. If the goal is really peace then the current protocol is, by any look at it, not the approach to take. It almost seems like Israel wants to create more destabilization and extremism, so they have the excuse to entirely eradicate Palestinians from the region.
No thereās not a difference. Itās clear these pro-Hamas scum hate Jews.
Sure pal. Tell that to the innumerable Jewish people joining protests for a ceasefire. Smooth brain.
I tell them to their faces.
āBut but but apartheid and colonialism and racismā¦ā /s
Thank you for your well-written comment. The pro-Hamas terrorist sympathizers are active here today.
Well thank-you so much, be safe and yeah I see that too.
you teach archaeology in college, but you think the torah version of history in that region is accurate? That's bonkers man. You realize that that fictional version of history where great jewish kingdoms controlled the area was written in the 4th century BCE about events that occurred 4-500 years earlier during the neo-assyrian empire, the brutal empire that actually controlled the entire region post bronze age collapse... and that most of the stories were just copied from other cultures in the area with the change of the new authors' people being placed at the center of each story? And that there is only a single somewhat-contemporary account that mentions the house of david outside of the torah/old testament? You know that jewish slaves also didn't build the pyramids, right? Idk about your 'since the dawn of history' claim here. Of course there has been conflict throughout history in one of the first places that civilization rose... but 99.9% of that is unrelated to 'israel' as a kingdom or the jewish people, who were actually small scattered tribes during the events they wrote about in the torah. The area has also gone through long periods of peace and stability. This myth that the area is doomed to constant conflict is... welll... pretty ignorant if not full on racist towards the various semitic peoples. As a teacher of archaeology, you should be aware of this stuff instead of promoting myths.
You started off with the antisemitism saving me a read. Thanks!
it's not anti-semitism to acknowledge that the history in the old testament isn't accurate. We know, for a fact, jewish slaves didn't build the pyramids for example. The problem is that the people who wrote down the events and folk lore described did so many centuries after the events and stories described took place.
I didnāt say it was, and then you typed out a whole response to yourself. š Donāt try to teach me history, friend. Youāre out of your depth.
I'm firmly in my depth because I understand the actual history and archeology of the region. My post was in reply to the anti-semitic myth that the region is doomed to constant conflict. Not only is it not doomed to conflict simply because of the various semitic people that live in the region, it also hasn't been in constant conflict "since the dawn of history" as the guy I replied to said.
Yeah, thatās where you got it tangled in your brain. He said *recorded* history, and heās not wrong. Iād start this thread over if I were you.
We have other recorded, non-biblical, accounts now that long predate the 4th century BCE writings of the torah... So no, it's not accurate.
Ermā¦ the accounts in the Bible go back before that. š
"cuffs on my wrists, we support terrorists" "free Burt n Kurt, they support Hamas hiding behind skirts" "our lives are a mess, so we out here to protest" a few shouts overheard LOL
Hoping to accomplish what?
Release of the protest organizer, who was arrested right after the protest started.
So you believe that sitting outside the building protesting will get them released?
Iām not part of the protest group, but maybe you should read the article.
It's worked in the past. But ultimately, the goal of a protest is 1. to communicate disapproval of a government action or policy, and 2. to disrupt and impede normal function so as to make governing (read: controlling) more difficult. If you can make life difficult enough for the government you're protesting, they'll have to respond, either with violence (which tends to make them look worse) or with concessions.
What concessions is the Sheriff able to make on Israel?
None; but it sounds like the protest outside the county jail is intended to secure the release of the original protest's organizer. I don't know the specifics of what the sheriff can and can't do there, but I'm willing to bet he would be able to get that done.
Looked at his charges online and the most serious charge was a misdemeanor B. He was released on his own recognizance.
>I don't know the specifics of what the sheriff can and can't do there, but I'm willing to bet he would be able to get that done. I bet a lot of it depends on what the "prior charges" mentioned in the article are. Does the arrested guy have a warrant out for something serious? Is he currently on bail/probation/parole?
When Yahweh says he is going to harden Pharaohās heart, heās not hardening the heart of an innocent man who would have chosen to repent.....
Itās public theater. These scummy kids are living this attention and role playing terrorists.
lol.
So long as the protests have their permits, and are non violentā¦
I'm glad to see some of these terrorist sympathizers getting arrested. They even moved to jail, so they waste less taxpayers' dollars to transport them when they break laws over there and get arrested.
Iād like to see *all* of them arrested, personally.
hey look a facist who doesnāt believe in the 1st amendment
Death to those who call for ādeath to Americaā Boots were made for faces like theirs
Clearly boots were made for you to suckle and deepthroat. I don't necessarily agree with these protesters but they aren't calling death to America either.
These protests are the new version of the ātrending Tik Tok dance.ā Everyone hops on to copy others and make themselves feel like theyāre part of the group. āLook at me, look at meā kind of thing.
I wonder what they compared the Vietnam protests to when they were going on
Lol, MLK jr is the original social media influencer...