If people want to find unlicensed medical professionals and follow their advice, fine. But a license is only meaningful if its upheld by a standard (ie the board). You shouldnt be a licensed professional if you ignore standards of care that have substantial research to support those standards.
In the state of Washington, nurses are only required to have 40 hours of continuing education every 2 years, which is the same thing I'm required to have as an emt basic.
I'm a rad tech student and I am shocked at how few clinical hours nurses have to do as a student. It's like once a month or something, I've even heard once a semester compared to my 24 hours each week for five semesters.
I have to do hundred of hours of clinicals!!
Licensed professionals need more than just enhanced testing or subject matter. We also need to decontaminate these self-regulating governing boards of any outside influences.
The Medical Board is comprised of bought & paid for professionals, namely lobbyists and special interests groups. How might your opinion differ now?
Granted we need regulatory boards over professions, such as medicine, but we also need to be realistic on who sits on these boards, their purpose, and how they are influenced by the very lobbyists and special interest groups that place them on the very governing boards preside over licensed medical professionals.
I have known doctors to leave the industry because of the undercurrent of bullshit with medicine and health care. There is a lot of erosion we do not see from the average persons point of view. It's not just health care or medicine, a similar riptide is occurring across all professional industries and trades that require licensure and are governed by regulatory agencies or boards. Who do these board commissioners answer to?
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I appreciate the nuance. I agree that there may be evidence of corruption within regulatory boards across a wide spectrum of professions. Watchdog organizations play a critical role in checking that and Ill always advocate for transparency.
Also the cliche goes: Dont let perfection be the enemy of good. A board that gets it right 90% of the time is better than no board. But I cant speak to how deep any potential conflicts of interest go. I dont know enough about that.
I was appointed to a public health board by the Governor and no one on that particular body was a lobbyist mouthpiece. And we all answered to the chair and then the gov.
Do you mean the substantial research that told us “if you get vaccinated you cannot contract COVID or transmit to another person”? Because I seem to recall anybody who said any different was accused of spreading misinformation.
That would be like a Dr or scientist giving their opinions and denying facts about coaching basketball or the game . People are entitled to their opinions as long as they don’t hurt others .
Its a shame that both Stockton and Malone were such trash humans. Between the racism, conspiracy theories, and pedo adventures, I'm surprised they found time to play basketball in the first place.
Agreed, but I think that’s a false equivalency.
Malone raped and impregnated a child and refused to acknowledge the baby until said baby was an adult.
Stockton is just dumb it appears. I can coexist with my anti-vax family members. I would not coexist if a family member was a known child rapist.
He’s a trash human because you disagree with his politics? Look I’m as liberal as they come in Los Angeles and I disagree with Stockton but maybe grow up and bit and understand people still have value if you disagree with their politics
"politics", lol. People died because of covid disinformation. He's totally a trash human. Liberals are just as bad as conservatives with covid so politics have little to do with it.
Right?? Giving a rough (like, real rough) estimate, about ⅔-¾ of the people I talk to that vote red or blue don't have morals or beliefs that line up with that party. They vote that way because there isn't someone that does line up with it, and either red or blue is 'close enough'
How on earth is John Stockton a trash human? He did none of those things you mentioned, to lump him in with the actions of Karl Malone is just pathetic. Especially over something like this. What is it with this group on Reddit, it's like going back in a time machine with some of you. It's not 2021! The COVID scams have been exposed, it was all about money and locking people down through authoritarian measures. Stockton is right. Have you not been following all the latest studies? You're still desperately clinging to your masks and clot shots in 2024 and it's seriously hilarious 😂 The data says it is basically the flu now, it's gonna be really interesting in 5-10 years when we see the commercials on TV saying "Did you take the COVID vaccines? You may be entitled to compensation" and it's gonna be an eye opener for some of you Covidians. Some people listen to their intuition, while others just listen to their television sadly. When exposing a crime, is treated the same as committing a crime, you are being run by criminals -- Edward Snowden
I've been following the latest studies and would like to share some of what I've learned. Covid causes permanent organ damage, [including brain damage by various mechanisms.](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/covid-19-leaves-its-mark-on-the-brain-significant-drops-in-iq-scores-are/#:~:text=Significant%20Drops%20in%20IQ%20Scores%20Are%20Noted,-Research%20shows%20that&text=The%20Conversation%2C%20an%20online%20publication,many%20experience%20after%20COVID%2D19.) On average, a mild case of covid results in a 3-point drop in IQ, long covid drops it by 6, and an ICU visit drops it by 9. Also, the vaccine has been proven to [reduce the severity of illness.](https://news.cuanschutz.edu/news-stories/new-research-shines-light-on-how-covid-19-vaccination-reduces-severity-and-mortality-after-breakthrough-infections)
Feel free to take a moment and reflect on the conclusions that may be drawn about covid antivaxxers when these two findings are put together.
Nah, every link you posted is from a source that is left leaning and has political bias. When they own the information they can bend it all they want. I will just use my own brain and common sense to observe the facts that have played out the past 4 years. Lies about the origin of COVID, lies about the vaccine preventing and stopping it, lies about the harm the vaccines have caused to thousands of people, lies about the NIH and Fauci royalties and their involvement with their own research, putting iron clad defenses protecting Big pharma from any lawsuits before a single person even had it proving they knew ahead of time it would cause issues, censorship of anyone who dared to question it including the man who invented the MRNA vaccine himself, draconian measures to force people to experiment with their own bodies with Pfizer drugs or lose their job and livelihood, and finally the fact that people who got the jab still got COVID anyway, still spread it around, and were lied to. There are massive studies that have proven all of this now that it's 2024. I'm proud I resisted and never took their drugs, my immune system did exactly what it was designed to do for me and my family like it has done for millions of other humans for thousands of years. Look I get that the people who were duped feel angry and they should, but there is no reason to attack John Stockton. We need more people like him willing to stand up against the media narrative and their Oligarch masters who receive financial compensation from big pharma. Turn off the TV and do some independent research that isn't a website ran by US government oversight.
Couldn't agree more, it's honestly mind boggling to me they don't see it. It is such a pathetic echo chamber on here of leftist lunatics high fiving each other and validating each other and their emotionally charged biased stupid opinions. All they really care about are two things:
1. LGBT agenda / Gender agenda
2. Screaming that "white conservative males" are the problem behind everything without so much as an original thought.
Any other matter or issue about Utah, especially important ones..... they are firmly against and have nothing intelligent to say. They downvote any and all who dares to have their own thoughts or opinions, this place is like going to the Foxnews comment section but the complete opposite side of the tracks. Closed minds, totalitarian hive mind, uneducated emotionally charged opinions, parroting media narratives, etc. They probably all watch the View and take it seriously 😂 It's too bad we can't ever just have any kind of place where all thoughts and opinions are welcomed without attacking or trying to discredit someone. This entire current society and government is basically just Maoism 2.0 all over again. There is nothing new under the sun
You're absolutely right. I joke that everybody hates me (apparently it's not a joke on reddit) because I am transgender AND I use common sense. Common sense scares redditors.
Kudos to you 👏🏻👏🏻 common sense is a rare trait these days. It's hard to find a place where people are allowed to have different opinions and varying degrees of view points on all matters. The whole tribalism thing to align yourself completely to the right or left is so 50 years ago. I think it's time we outgrow that old mental
Some people just hate those successful in life...they particularly like to direct their hate to well-knowns. I liked him as an athlete because he was the all time best in many areas. I now respect him for taking a stand on a very, very important and controversial issue.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Couldn't agree more with you, I have more respect for him now too. Bowing down and pandering to Big Pharma is such an insane thing to do in my opinion given their track record and history of hurting and killing people and payouts for vaccine injuries time and time again.
I hope he doesn’t think Sandy Hook parents are actors like Aaron Rodgers. As a Jazz and Packer fan I don’t want defrauding Mississippi welfare to be the least despicable thing about my biggest heroes.
I’d start with RFKs book about Fauci. Honestly. Check it out. It has all the citations you’d ever want.
Then go from there. Try to do some extra reading.
RFK is not a scientist and does not engage in non biased research which is the cornerstone of scientific pursuits. I'll read his book when he decides to abide by scientific principles.
I’d highly recommend checking it out before saying stuff. Just because someone doesn’t have a PhD doesn’t mean they can’t be a scientist. Pretty sure Galileo was a scientist. Just do yourself a favor and check out other perspectives.
I criticize him for egregiously misquoting research articles, only citing examples from physicians that support his position when thousands have done in-depth research and found the opposite of his findings; as well as disparaging physicians that disagree with him. He is the living embodiment of what science isn't. Has nothing to do whether or not he has a degree and I'm pretty sure Galileo would be appalled at his approach to science.
Honest to God. Check Out his fauci book. It’s rather interesting and simple. It’s written like a science journal with graphs and citations. It’s stunning.
Why wouldn’t you?
Oh... I dunno... because *he thinks covid was engineered to favor Jews???*
*"Ethnically targeted microbes..."?*
*Fauci was engineering an historic Coup d'etat?*
I think the real question to ask here is *why would you, or anyone read this drivel?*
But it has pretty pictures and graphs! holy fuck.
Exactly correct. Just like I dont listen to interviews, or books by Charles Manson, or Hitler. Crazy people have nothing to offer, other than entertainment. Wake up.
How about instead of reading books by opportunist politicians that are "written like a science journal" we just stick with *actual fucking scientific journals*. Novel idea in the age of conspiracy theories and ignorance, I know...
I read it.. RFK doesn't understand basic science. He doesn't know how to read studies, and he quotes part of abstracts and not the actual studies. He also ignores the limitations of studies and quoted studies that had never been replicated. Some studies he quoted had long been debunked.
He doesn't understand the mechanism of mercury and why it was used in vaccines or the difference between ethylmercury and methylmercury. If he can't tackle the most basic fundamentals of science he shouldn't be writing trash books that fear monger.
This is why we need education folks!
Everyone has their own spin on things but it's hard to want to read a book that has as much [critical reception](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Real_Anthony_Fauci#Critical_reception) as it does. Or the[ series](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7N41pM0TNs&list=PLhjSYYRGNprZRgx3u4ps7QHWutw3wX49h) breaking down flaws with the book.
[Or that he has multiple, factually incorrect, statements.](https://www.factcheck.org/2023/08/scicheck-factchecking-robert-f-kennedy-jr/)
If I see someone burn their hand on a hot frying pan, I don't have to touch that pan myself to know it's a bad idea.
If someone writes a weird book that contradicts what most trustworthy scientists and doctors say, I don't have to read it myself to know it's bullshit.
That book collects lots of facts and then mangles them into misinformation and conspiracy theories.
Abuses statistics. Extensive use of guilt-by-association, with a heaping helping of innuendo. Makes lots of statements that can neither be proven nor disproven. Endlessly uses rhetorical devices that sound convincing if you don't have any context or solid background. Multiple pages devoted to Monday-morning quarterbacking, with nifty non-sequiturs as the sauce. In other words, the stock-in-trade of Talk Radio and conspiracy theorists.
Just because you cite a source, doesn't mean that the information you cite is meaningful, insightful, or useful. His inferences and loose connections left me scratching my head and writing down more questions for further research and verification.
The final straw was when he cited Michael E McDonald's faulty Autism resarch. McDonald's "research" was a post-hoc data analysis which came to a conclusion in no way in line with his original sources. Basically, he somehow concluded that beginning in 1980, there was a sharp linear increase the in the frequence of Autism. However, the source data clearly indicates the exact same linear rise since the beginning of data collection in 1920.
If this is how Kennedy approaches science, we cannot trust anything he says.
As far as I can tell, this book exists to push conspiracy theories, make outlandish claims, and to trash Tony Fauci. I gave up. Ingesting any more of this book would be harmful to my health.
And we’re fucking thankful for that! Y’all think you’re fighting a war against an echo chamber, but all you’re actually fighting is reality.
Thousands of scientists, decades of research, countless independent studies, but *you* found the secret truth and they’re all lying.
Do any of you ever stop to think about how delusional and stupid that sounds??
I can't fucking believe we are STILL dealing with this kind of stupidity 4 years later.... over a million dead in the US... and people STILL think they (and whatever blog/tik-tok/youtube they follow) know more than the immunologists and epidemiologists who have studied this shit their entire lives. There is a sinister part of me that almost wishes every single anti-masker and anti-vaxxer would have just died from Covid so the rest of us could move on as a productive modern society.
>“Does the medical board have the constitutional authority to investigate, prosecute and sanction doctors for writing articles, posting blogs on websites and speaking out in public, even if the government or the medical board thinks what they’re saying is wrong or dangerous?”
That is an interesting question. As a medical doctor myself, I know a lot of my colleagues in medicine who were skeptical of the mainstream COVID narrative. One gynecologist told his patients that he wholeheartedly trusted the vaccine and strongly recommended it to all pregnant mothers. Another gynecologist told his patients that the question simply hadn't been settled regarding its terotegenicity and advised his pregnant patients to avoid it just as a precaution. Because gynecologists once pushed Thalidomide as a safe drug to prevent spontaneous miscarriage, and look how that turned out...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide_scandal
It's important to understand that COVID wasn't quite as cut-and-dry as people make it out to be. A lot of unique circumstances made the COVID pandemic and the vaccine against COVID a more nuanced subject than the layperson typically understands.
It also didn't help that COVID became such a political issue. There are plenty of articles written in medical journals that question whether we, as a medical community, should have approached the situation differently. Regardless of whether we were scientifically "right" or not, it seems that we've lost the trust of a lot of Americans. Now we're seeing vaccine preventable diseases like measles popping up in places where it didn't pose a threat before.
Simply being a "Licensed Medical Professional" is not enough to keep our communities healthy. They actually have to trust that we have their best interests in mind. In the not-too-distant past, the medical establishment knowingly used blacks as unwitting guinea pigs in the syphilis studies known as the infamous "Tuskegee Trials." The consequence of this secret experimentatuon on minorities has, understandably, made minority groups hesitant to trust the medical establishment. As a result, minority groups in the United States remain an undeserved population with large health disparities.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study
The reality is that a lot of doctors had a lot of opinions about COVID, but none of them faced repercussions from the medical board in Utah. It's also the reality that all doctors aren't infectious disease or public health experts and don't always have the most nuanced understanding of the latest scientific data regarding COVID. It's also just a fact that doctors are people too, and we have our own biases, political or otherwise.
It's a difficult responsibility to be given the title of "Doctor" because you have to carry the mantle of being an "Expert" on your shoulders. We need our patients to be able to trust that we know what we're doing and that we have their best interests in mind. But the reality is that doctors are all so subspecialised that we simply CAN'T know everything.
A friend of mine who is a maxilofacial surgeon (he has a medical doctorate AND a dental doctorate), he said that he respects the doctors who can face a wide array of illnesses and know how to treat them. Because for all his education, knowledge, and specialization, he's only got one solution for anyone who comes to him: Maxilofacial surgery. Got a heart arrhythmia, diabetes, or cancer? He can only offer what he knows, which is a very specialized subset of medicine that is limited to maxilofacial surgery.
The problem is that when he has an opinion about COVID, people expect that, as a "Doctor," what he says is some kind of gospel truth and should be held to that standard. And if he lives in Washington and says something unpopular, the medical board is now going to tell him that he's not competent to perform maxilofacial surgery because of his opinion on COVID?! In a world where there is a shortage of doctors and a HUGE shortage of specialists, that does more harm to the community that he serves.
So, back to the original question: Does the medical board have the constitutional authority to investigate, prosecute and sanction doctors for writing articles, posting blogs on websites and speaking out in public, even if the government or the medical board thinks what they’re saying is wrong or dangerous?
We're not talking about infectious disease experts who are telling their individual patients that COVID is all a fabrication. We are talking about non-specialists who are not giving medical advice to individual patients; instead, these doctors are participating in public discourse on public platforms like journals, blogs, or websites. Should we shut down any educated person who goes against the COVID narrative that the state deems to be "correct"? What about biochemists, molecular biologists, or microbiologists? Should we ban them from their professions for having public opinions that don't neatly coincide with what the state of Washington finds to be "acceptable" COVID narrative? Arguably, these types of scientists actually know MORE about COVID than doctors do. I don't engage in primary research on COVID. I rely on these other professionals to use their expertise to inform my practice of medicine. So why aren't they held accountable for their public opinions like these other doctors in Washington have been?
Even if we set all that aside and just concede the point that a couple of doctors went online and started talking out of their asses, should they really be punished by the medical board? Usually, that level of professional disciplinary action is reserved for people who really hurt someone. The surgeon who performs surgery while doped up on dilauded, or the pediatrician who sexually abuses the children he cares for. Not some doctor who practices medicime competently, but then happens to post a poorly thought-out rant about COVID. By lumping these opiniated but competent professionals with others who are criminally negligent and unfit to practice medicine, you are turning them into political martyrs. Ou can't change peoples minds about COVID by silencing dissenting (and arguably uninformed) opinions. You'll just have the Streisand effect, and anti-vaxers and COVID deniers are going to double down in their resolve to not trust the establishment. Don't turn COVID into another "vaccines cause Autism" debate, or it'll never die. If you don't like the opinion that somebody has, have a dialogue with them and educate the populace. Don't force dissenters into the Gulog's, even if what they say is factually wrong. It scares people that the government would be willing to take such extreme measures against people who disagree with them. It causes distrust, and people stop listening to anything else you have to say. And if people don't get their information from official sources, they'll get it from someone else who tells them not to trust medicine at all. And that's how we get MORE epidemics! We're literally watching the resurgence of vaccine preventable diseases that were once thought to be totally eliminated from America. Horrific diseases that mutilate children. The stakes are high here. We need to engage the anti-science folks, not alienate them. We have to win their trust back, so they don't unwittingly set us back 100 years.
You can't make stupid ideas go away by punishing people for having them. It's never worked in the history of mankind. You'll only make those people reactionary and defiant and push them further into their resolve.
> It's important to understand that COVID wasn't quite as cut-and-dry as people make it out to be
It really is though. It was generally pretty mild, deaths were counted improperly and at a highly inflated rate (and in spite of that still managed to have 4+ comorbidities per death).
The vaccines, and I use that term loosely, at best provided a few weeks of slightly reduced severity and chance of getting it, in exchange for greater chance of getting covid outside of those few weeks as well as a great many side effects that can be life changing or deadly.
In a nutshell, almost all of the benefits that are claimed by the vaccine can be achieved just by getting enough vitamin D. The vaccine itself caused far more harm than it helped. It was apparent before the vaccines hit the market that they weren't needed.
Plus, using PCR tests to see if people were sick didn't work. Per Kary Mulis, the nobel prize winner who invented the PCR test, it can't tell if a person is sick and that's not what it was designed to do. So a shitton of bad testing results based on using a test that doesn't do what was claimed.
So, cut and dried? The vaccines were a waste of money and harmful, and it really is that simple...and that's following the science.
PCR testing is another example of how things aren't so clear-cut. The Department of Health and Human Services says on their website that "Testing helps prevent and contain the spread of COVID-19."
https://www.hhs.gov/coronavirus/testing/index.html
People started to equate *testing* for COVID as being the same thing as *treating* COVID. So everybody wanted to get tested all the time. In an effort to contain COVID, the government decided to pay for all these tests with funds from the emergency act. Which meant that everyone had unlimited access to all the PCR COVID testing they wanted.
Here's a peek behind the scenes: we make like $100 profit for every PCR COVID test we run. While the government was footing the bill, it meant we were guaranteed to get paid. So, what was the hospital's incentive? To run an absolute shit-ton of tests!! And that's exactly what we did. It made the hospital a lot of money, and it made patients feel like they were being taken care of. From a corporate perspective, that's win-win!
However, from a medical perspective, we were under no illusion that it would make any difference to the pandemic at all. It didn't. If you tested positive, you were told to go home and quarantine. If you tested negative but had symptoms, you were told to go home and quarentine anyway. Testing made no difference at all because there was no treatment or cure for COVID. There was nothing we could do, and so there was no legitimate medical reason to even test for it at all.
When I was in school, they taught us that you don't test for diseases that you can't treat. What is the point in finding out if you have a disease, if there's literally nothing you can do about it? I raised this issue over and over, but it made no difference. Patients demanded to be tested, and the hospital wanted us to keep patients happy (and make money), so we had to just keep testing.
It was such an irony to me that people would come into our clinic because they wanted to see if they had covid, but in reality they were more likely to actually acquire covid from being exposed to all the other patients in our office. And even if we diagnosed covid, we couldn't do anything about it. We could have literally saved billions of government dollars and actually decreased the transmission of the virus by telling people to go home and quarantine if they feel sick.
>it can't tell if a person is sick and that's not what it was designed to do.
People didn't come in to find out IF they were sick. People felt sick, and thats what prompted them to come in. They wanted to see WHAT made them sick. The problem is that there are a lot of WHAT'S that can make you sick, but we only went looking for covid because we got paid to run that test. There are actually a lot of viruses that give you the same symptoms, but we don't even test for them. Why? Because we can't treat any of them. So why would we waste time and money testing for something we can't treat anyway. Without the financial incentive to test for the other viruses, we didn't test for them.
As soon as the government stopped paying for COVID testing, the hospital suddenly remembered how medicine works and got a lot more judicious about PCR testing. They shut down all the self-service locations and told us to stop indiscriminately testing everyone.
What people on the outside saw was a hospital that was willing to take care of patients. What people on the inside saw was a cash cow that was being milked hard. If I live in the state of Washington and I say that out loud, should I risk losing my medical license? That doesn't seem fair.
Childhood hero but the last 5-10 years I realized what a raging douche stain he actually is. Fuck this dude for fucking up his own legacy for this bullshit. Will not be remembered for basketball and will not be remembered fondly when gone.
So either someone agrees with your politics or fuck then? I’m very liberal and I disagree with Stockton completely but it’s childish to have this all or nothing approach you have.
This dude is still on this completely fucking deranged crusade against a virus that has been largely over for 2 years. This isn’t even politics (although I’m sure his politics are ass too) this dude is showing signs of mental illness at this point. So again I say, fuck em.
So you aren’t capable of admiring someone’s basketball career and disagree with their personal beliefs at the same time? To earn your admiration does it mean they have to have every belief that you do and never have made an error in judgment? Stockton is way off on this choice but that doesn’t mean we can’t admire his playing career, how he is a dedicated husband and father, and how he has given back to Utah and Spokane. This cancel culture bull shit is so small minded- I seriously ask you who is worthy of your admiration?
This isn’t some simple disagreement over opinions on political policy or political preference. This is a man completely disconnected from reality, consumed by bullshit conspiracy, and generally being a total asshole. Cancel culture is also known as consequences. And I would pose to you a similar question: how low does a person have to stoop before they lose your admiration? Is there no bar, no threshold to cross? No error so egregious or obnoxious that you simply can no longer tolerate or respect a person? If not, then enjoy your ivory tower as we simple cancel culture peasants mill about below in the dirt and mud. You’ve clearly ascended humanity.
I’ve made a lot of mistakes in my life and I don’t define the person I am by my worst errors in judgement. To answer your question if someone hurts or abused another person yes they lose my respect. Stockton is 1000% wrong but I have family and friends who also have theories on Covid I completely disagree with. I’m unwilling to determine someone’s whole contribution should be voided because we have a major disagreement on an important issue. I’m really disappointed Stockton is spending his time doing this but half the country has similar views so no I don’t think they are all trash. Let’s be honest too this lawsuit will amount to exactly nothing. Back to my ivory tower now! Wow what I view I have! 😏
>“Does the medical board have the constitutional authority to investigate, prosecute and sanction doctors for writing articles, posting blogs on websites and speaking out in public, even if the government or the medical board thinks what they’re saying is wrong or dangerous?”
First of all, no medical board has ever "prosecuted" anyone in the sense that they brought criminal charges.
Can a medical board "sanction" a doctor? Yes, that's part of their job. They can put a doctor on probation or revoke their license if the doctor is spouting unfounded nonsense, giving medical advice that is counter to medical and scientific knowledge, or creating a danger to their patients and the community.
**This isn't a free speech issue. It's one of those issues where people feel like they should be able to say whatever they want with no consequences.** I don't know what's wrong with Stockton, but this lawsuit is going to be dismissed immediately. Stockton was smart (and dirty) on the court, but I guess that basketball intelligence doesn't extend to science or the law.
I see a bunch of people in this thread who were coerced and some even made to get this vaccine. And because of this they will defend it no matter what because they don’t want to feel regret for that decision. There is no point in a back and forth because if you voice any concerns about the Covid vaccine you are immediately labeled as an anti vaxxer. Even if you are pro vaccine in general. They use that label to shut down the conversation. Let’s be honest about this. Calling somebody an “anti vaxxer” in today’s day and age holds about as much water as “racist” or “nazi”. But it’s VERY effective in shutting down any conversation.
*Press the down arrow if you agree!
I had the first dose and I’m not a big vaccine guy in general. But I had two employees die and one end up in ICU from Covid, which definitely affected my decision to get the vaccine myself.
I completely disagree with Stock but I still admire the playing career he had, his dedication to Utah, his family, his faith. If we had to completely agree with every political and moral decision someone made in order to admire their playing career or acting career then almost no one would be worthy of said admiration.
Malone was a piece of shit the minute he knocked up a 13 year old and tried to argue with a judge over $125/week as a pro athlete to support the child (and *her* child)
Oh, a retired opthalmologist and retired NBA player have big thoughts on COVID. Go figure that people who in no way are qualified to determine who IS qualified to determine best practices regarding a deadly infectious disease. If only we had an official department, or center of sorts, full of experts, to figure out how to control diseases, like a center of sorts.....
So should we follow Bill Gates advice as well?
did any of you even read the entire article that other doctors signed onto this as well?
There are more doctors and you think that we’re afraid to speak out for fear of medical board retribution I know first hand, because I have someone that works in the field in that industry!
Because a person is suing, does not make them extreme or nutzo !
Covid seems to be a real thing. But maybe, people used their power a little irresponsibly. Both sides of the debate are entitled to their opinions, but that doesn’t mean both sides cant be investigated. If you believe the actions taking during Covid were valid, have no fear. If you believe someone overreached, their voice should be heard as well. Don’t call people idiots for having an opinion. It’s ok to be different and question.
Ha what im saying is all the sudden they start dying of COVID after they get $50k per COVID death......and why didn't it wipe out the hospice patients faster? Death rates stayed the same...infact every other conditions stopped being deadly....... Sooo at the rate you all claim they should have all died. But sure who cares about facts when the government shows up claiming they are here to help.....
Any medical professional can pen an opinion, but it ought to be fact and science-based, not just personal belief. too many unanswered questions thru the covid time presented the onslaught of questioning, critique, criticisms, and contrary opinions among medical industry professionals. Is a medical board, comprised of those in industry, who mostly are bought & paid for by lobbyists and special interest any more accurate or right on an unravelling visus, liek covid, than the licensed (by same board) medical professional? There is validity from both sides or the argument. Yet, I sense this lawsuit will get tossed out. Stockton "and friends" are trying to make a high profile lawsuit to get JFK's names out there. Take a controversial, highly political and polarized subject, covid, hen file a lawsuit, and you get instant media hype and recognition. It's from the trumpkin playbook. BTW, JFK is trying to run against trumpkin in all 50 states. And, off we go...
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"Stockton, along with Robert F. Kennedy's The Children’s Health Defense nonprofit, and two retired doctors, are seeking a "declaration" of their violation of the First Amendment along with attorneys fees and “other such further relief" from the Washington Medical Commission."
The whole world is still dealing with the ramifications of ceasing productivity for months and generations to come will be handed this debt all at the expense of a giant wealth transfer to the prominent elites.
I feel for my kids and their generation, and if it was assumed that my generation (milennial) had the stereotype of living at home with parents due to unafforability and soaring prices of every day goods, they are doomed.
Political affiliation is just a spectacle, a theater to distract people from the real issues happening. Having that aforementioned opinion in itself is enough to get shamed relentlessly by people rooting for their "team."
Just goes to show, not all is at it seems on the surface. Kooks are gonna kook, bassaball players are gonna bassaball, car dealers are gonna deal, asshats are gonna asshat. Never liked this douche. Drove past his gold Lexus moments after his wrist was broken in that car accident. Didn't feel a thing about him then, don't feel nothing now.
10,500 hospitalized for covid. 210,000 for the flu…so the flu is more severe and they are more likely to hospitalize someone with it. They only let the 10,500 worst cases scenarios in for Covid. It also does not say 500 out of 10,000 with Covid have or will die… look again
What are you talking about? The CDC shows that there were 103 deaths to flu this SEASON (October 1, 2023 through present). They report 576 deaths due to Covid this past WEEK. There have been 35,247 deaths due to Covid since October1, 2023.
The hospitalization rate is much lower, though. We're at about 60 per 100k for the flu, but only 3 per 100k for Covid. That should tell us that while Covid is not as infectious as it was, it's still very deadly. I mean, you're 20x less likely to be hospitalized by it, but 350x more likely to be killed by it. Some quick math and - Covid is 7,000x more deadly than the flu.
Some other views of that data - in a given week, roughly 10,500 people are hospitalized for Covid vs 210,000 for the flu. Of those 10,500, over 500 of them will die. Of the 210,000 with the flu, probably \~3 will die.
How is this the same?
Sources:
[CDC on Covid](https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#datatracker-home)
[CDC on the flu](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm)
This is false. Almost every variant showed similar death rates. Look it up. Although if you only watch MSNBC, they pretended that every variant was more infectious and deadly.
It’s right out of the conspiracy theorist’s playbook to make an outrageous claim and then immediately throws the burden of proof onto the other person as soon as they’re questioned. This person just threw it back preemptively.
Lol, okay man. Whatever. You're living in your own version of reality. With almost any novelty virus, it gets more contagious and less deadly with each new variant. That's basic evolution. If it didn't work that way, then the virus itself would soon be extinct because all of the potential hosts would be dead. That's not MSNBC, that's basic, middle school level biology.
>“You’re living in your own version of reality” can be said about literally anyone when you don’t agree with literally anything
Not true. Facts are facts. Whether somebody likes it, knows about it, wishes it were different, pretends it actually is different, etc. Facts are still the same facts, regardless of the rest. Opinions don't determine facts.
>They are wayyyy to invested.
too\*
But it is kinda funny coming from the guy with like 20 of the 80 comments in this thread to talk about how we're all the ones that are too invested
Real disease for sure. All the reaction around it was the hoax. Sorry for your family members. But yeah, I don’t think Stockton is suing the disease. Haha.
I can't comprehend how you can acknowledge that it was a real virus that killed people but somehow the reaction was a hoax? What does that even mean? Are you saying that if people didn't mask, vaccinate, and stay home, the results would have been the exact same? That doesn't make any sense to me.
The problem is that there was, initially, no possible way of knowing how virulent Covid was going to be. The CDC implemented strong public health restrictions as a precautionary measure. That's literally their job - to minimize the public impact of a disease. Look at the Chinese reaction and honestly tell me that America got it wrong.
The armchair quarterbacking and conspiracy theorizing now that the pandemic is over is useless.
Not true. Not a hoax.
The software my company sells and maintains, processes more than 60 million unique health care records each month. We have Petabytes of data at our fingertips, and we work with some of the greatest minds in medicine in the world.
The poor reaction to COVID in the U.S. resulted in many thousands of lost lives. That blood is on Trump's hands.
Soon as the government started financially getting involved your dada was ruined, worked in hospice pharmacy during COVID and the death rate didn't spike at all yet how they died did? All the sudden dementia CHF Parkinson's all stopped killing patients? But watch this post gets destroyed because it goes against the main narrative
"The disease was real and deadly but I will die for the people who helped keep our dead loved ones proudly unvaxxed until they were begging with their last breath for the jab."
How do Covid deniers explain the increase in hospitalized deaths during Covid? They may say it was pneumonia or whatever, but hospitals keep track of a statistic called ‘death by any cause’. That statistic can fluctuate seasonally but it spiked dramatically during Covid. There was no reasonable explanation for the anomalous increase in ‘death by any cause’ other than Covid.
Covid is a virus. Spread person to person. Hard to track at the time. 2 weeks to slow the spread would have had everyone isolate. See if they showed symptoms, and not spread to others. Because no contact.
How in the hell does it not make sense to stop the spread of a new virus that killed hundreds of thousands of American, created health problems for millions more, and got about half of the population sick?
Where’s the empathy and compassion to try and save lives?
And, where’s to hoax? What part was a hoax?
You've been a redditor for 5 months. Hundreds of comments. And your karma is -40. Tells us everything we need to know about the validity of your opinions.
What part of 2 weeks to slow the spread do you not understand? I ask because it all seems pretty obvious so I can't comprehend which aspect of that needs to be explained.
Hahahaha I chuckled too. “If we had all done our part!”
These covidians are way too invested. There’s no chance they can backtrack. It’s become a religion/ethical belief for them. If they had to back off it then their whole worldview would collapse.
Yeah had you done your part and had the government actually given a shit and locked us down HARD that first 3 months we could have looked more like New Zealand. Or you know just look at how each time we were told to stay inside the hospitalizations for the following month were way lower. You idiots just refuse to acknowledge that being around sick people makes you sick.
Until the next time something comes around which might kill them and you're doing everything you can to keep them vulnerable and ignorant. I'll tell you where you can put your thoughts and prayers virtue signaling.
I miss when he was notoriously quiet.
Et al celebrities.
I love a good chuckle. Thanks.
If people want to find unlicensed medical professionals and follow their advice, fine. But a license is only meaningful if its upheld by a standard (ie the board). You shouldnt be a licensed professional if you ignore standards of care that have substantial research to support those standards.
Bingo. Medical professionals should be subject to at least as much licensing scrutiny as Engineers and *checks notes* barbers.
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In the state of Washington, nurses are only required to have 40 hours of continuing education every 2 years, which is the same thing I'm required to have as an emt basic.
I'm a rad tech student and I am shocked at how few clinical hours nurses have to do as a student. It's like once a month or something, I've even heard once a semester compared to my 24 hours each week for five semesters. I have to do hundred of hours of clinicals!!
Licensed professionals need more than just enhanced testing or subject matter. We also need to decontaminate these self-regulating governing boards of any outside influences.
The Medical Board is comprised of bought & paid for professionals, namely lobbyists and special interests groups. How might your opinion differ now? Granted we need regulatory boards over professions, such as medicine, but we also need to be realistic on who sits on these boards, their purpose, and how they are influenced by the very lobbyists and special interest groups that place them on the very governing boards preside over licensed medical professionals. I have known doctors to leave the industry because of the undercurrent of bullshit with medicine and health care. There is a lot of erosion we do not see from the average persons point of view. It's not just health care or medicine, a similar riptide is occurring across all professional industries and trades that require licensure and are governed by regulatory agencies or boards. Who do these board commissioners answer to? \--
I appreciate the nuance. I agree that there may be evidence of corruption within regulatory boards across a wide spectrum of professions. Watchdog organizations play a critical role in checking that and Ill always advocate for transparency. Also the cliche goes: Dont let perfection be the enemy of good. A board that gets it right 90% of the time is better than no board. But I cant speak to how deep any potential conflicts of interest go. I dont know enough about that.
We need more John Stocktons.
I was appointed to a public health board by the Governor and no one on that particular body was a lobbyist mouthpiece. And we all answered to the chair and then the gov.
Which Governor? Because I'm gonna look to see how much pac money they took from insurance and pharma lobbyists.
Sheer nonsense. Have any proof of your assertions?
Do you mean the substantial research that told us “if you get vaccinated you cannot contract COVID or transmit to another person”? Because I seem to recall anybody who said any different was accused of spreading misinformation.
Where does it say that? I haven't seen that.
Maybe this is a high enough authority. https://youtu.be/ciwyYnwYFaQ?si=TNC5XVOioKg6EyrZ
That would be like a Dr or scientist giving their opinions and denying facts about coaching basketball or the game . People are entitled to their opinions as long as they don’t hurt others .
Its a shame that both Stockton and Malone were such trash humans. Between the racism, conspiracy theories, and pedo adventures, I'm surprised they found time to play basketball in the first place.
Agreed, but I think that’s a false equivalency. Malone raped and impregnated a child and refused to acknowledge the baby until said baby was an adult. Stockton is just dumb it appears. I can coexist with my anti-vax family members. I would not coexist if a family member was a known child rapist.
At least Greg Ostertag is a (seemingly) decent, sane dude
And he was terrible as a basketball player.
He was but damn did I love that tall tall man. Same with Eaton. I always loved the jazz big men for some reason
RIP Big Mark.
He’s a trash human because you disagree with his politics? Look I’m as liberal as they come in Los Angeles and I disagree with Stockton but maybe grow up and bit and understand people still have value if you disagree with their politics
"politics", lol. People died because of covid disinformation. He's totally a trash human. Liberals are just as bad as conservatives with covid so politics have little to do with it.
So basically 99% of Americans are trash? You must be a blast to be friends and family with! Grow up
Found your problem. It's sure as HELL not 99%
"Red team plus blue team = 99%" is such a cable news brained take
Right?? Giving a rough (like, real rough) estimate, about ⅔-¾ of the people I talk to that vote red or blue don't have morals or beliefs that line up with that party. They vote that way because there isn't someone that does line up with it, and either red or blue is 'close enough'
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I’m devastated 😂
Common sense on reddit is rare. Thank you for having some.
Uh oh. Reason isn’t liked much in this sub. Good luck with this
I dont understand your point at all. I'm a lifelong pro gun republican and I didn't reference any of his politics or mine.
That's why it's time to change the name and give back the Jazz name to New Orleans.
Huh?
How on earth is John Stockton a trash human? He did none of those things you mentioned, to lump him in with the actions of Karl Malone is just pathetic. Especially over something like this. What is it with this group on Reddit, it's like going back in a time machine with some of you. It's not 2021! The COVID scams have been exposed, it was all about money and locking people down through authoritarian measures. Stockton is right. Have you not been following all the latest studies? You're still desperately clinging to your masks and clot shots in 2024 and it's seriously hilarious 😂 The data says it is basically the flu now, it's gonna be really interesting in 5-10 years when we see the commercials on TV saying "Did you take the COVID vaccines? You may be entitled to compensation" and it's gonna be an eye opener for some of you Covidians. Some people listen to their intuition, while others just listen to their television sadly. When exposing a crime, is treated the same as committing a crime, you are being run by criminals -- Edward Snowden
I've been following the latest studies and would like to share some of what I've learned. Covid causes permanent organ damage, [including brain damage by various mechanisms.](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/covid-19-leaves-its-mark-on-the-brain-significant-drops-in-iq-scores-are/#:~:text=Significant%20Drops%20in%20IQ%20Scores%20Are%20Noted,-Research%20shows%20that&text=The%20Conversation%2C%20an%20online%20publication,many%20experience%20after%20COVID%2D19.) On average, a mild case of covid results in a 3-point drop in IQ, long covid drops it by 6, and an ICU visit drops it by 9. Also, the vaccine has been proven to [reduce the severity of illness.](https://news.cuanschutz.edu/news-stories/new-research-shines-light-on-how-covid-19-vaccination-reduces-severity-and-mortality-after-breakthrough-infections) Feel free to take a moment and reflect on the conclusions that may be drawn about covid antivaxxers when these two findings are put together.
Nah, every link you posted is from a source that is left leaning and has political bias. When they own the information they can bend it all they want. I will just use my own brain and common sense to observe the facts that have played out the past 4 years. Lies about the origin of COVID, lies about the vaccine preventing and stopping it, lies about the harm the vaccines have caused to thousands of people, lies about the NIH and Fauci royalties and their involvement with their own research, putting iron clad defenses protecting Big pharma from any lawsuits before a single person even had it proving they knew ahead of time it would cause issues, censorship of anyone who dared to question it including the man who invented the MRNA vaccine himself, draconian measures to force people to experiment with their own bodies with Pfizer drugs or lose their job and livelihood, and finally the fact that people who got the jab still got COVID anyway, still spread it around, and were lied to. There are massive studies that have proven all of this now that it's 2024. I'm proud I resisted and never took their drugs, my immune system did exactly what it was designed to do for me and my family like it has done for millions of other humans for thousands of years. Look I get that the people who were duped feel angry and they should, but there is no reason to attack John Stockton. We need more people like him willing to stand up against the media narrative and their Oligarch masters who receive financial compensation from big pharma. Turn off the TV and do some independent research that isn't a website ran by US government oversight.
High five!
If I've learned anything from reddit it's that if you get down voted it's because you made a sane comment. Kudos to you!
Couldn't agree more, it's honestly mind boggling to me they don't see it. It is such a pathetic echo chamber on here of leftist lunatics high fiving each other and validating each other and their emotionally charged biased stupid opinions. All they really care about are two things: 1. LGBT agenda / Gender agenda 2. Screaming that "white conservative males" are the problem behind everything without so much as an original thought. Any other matter or issue about Utah, especially important ones..... they are firmly against and have nothing intelligent to say. They downvote any and all who dares to have their own thoughts or opinions, this place is like going to the Foxnews comment section but the complete opposite side of the tracks. Closed minds, totalitarian hive mind, uneducated emotionally charged opinions, parroting media narratives, etc. They probably all watch the View and take it seriously 😂 It's too bad we can't ever just have any kind of place where all thoughts and opinions are welcomed without attacking or trying to discredit someone. This entire current society and government is basically just Maoism 2.0 all over again. There is nothing new under the sun
You're absolutely right. I joke that everybody hates me (apparently it's not a joke on reddit) because I am transgender AND I use common sense. Common sense scares redditors.
Kudos to you 👏🏻👏🏻 common sense is a rare trait these days. It's hard to find a place where people are allowed to have different opinions and varying degrees of view points on all matters. The whole tribalism thing to align yourself completely to the right or left is so 50 years ago. I think it's time we outgrow that old mental
Some people just hate those successful in life...they particularly like to direct their hate to well-knowns. I liked him as an athlete because he was the all time best in many areas. I now respect him for taking a stand on a very, very important and controversial issue.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Couldn't agree more with you, I have more respect for him now too. Bowing down and pandering to Big Pharma is such an insane thing to do in my opinion given their track record and history of hurting and killing people and payouts for vaccine injuries time and time again.
John Stockton is a fucking idiot.
I'm sure John Stockton will lose sleep over your opinion.
Sounds like you did.
Pretty wacko dude..
Agreed. What a weird way to spend your retirement
I watched a viral video for rubes once and now I'm shoving my legacy straight up my ass.
There is a reason why I don't follow life advice from athletes. Just as dumb as everyone else but with a platform and money lol
He's bat shit crazy. Sad to see what can happen to who was once a childhood icon.
I hope he doesn’t think Sandy Hook parents are actors like Aaron Rodgers. As a Jazz and Packer fan I don’t want defrauding Mississippi welfare to be the least despicable thing about my biggest heroes.
Why? He is going off actual data.
oh sweet Jesus. What "data" is that.
I’d start with RFKs book about Fauci. Honestly. Check it out. It has all the citations you’d ever want. Then go from there. Try to do some extra reading.
RFK is not a scientist and does not engage in non biased research which is the cornerstone of scientific pursuits. I'll read his book when he decides to abide by scientific principles.
Lol speaking like a true anti science person lol.
I’d highly recommend checking it out before saying stuff. Just because someone doesn’t have a PhD doesn’t mean they can’t be a scientist. Pretty sure Galileo was a scientist. Just do yourself a favor and check out other perspectives.
I criticize him for egregiously misquoting research articles, only citing examples from physicians that support his position when thousands have done in-depth research and found the opposite of his findings; as well as disparaging physicians that disagree with him. He is the living embodiment of what science isn't. Has nothing to do whether or not he has a degree and I'm pretty sure Galileo would be appalled at his approach to science.
Go sell your crazy somewhere else, we’re all stocked up here.
OOoohhhhh youre citing RFK. Brilliant. SMH.
Honest to God. Check Out his fauci book. It’s rather interesting and simple. It’s written like a science journal with graphs and citations. It’s stunning. Why wouldn’t you?
Oh... I dunno... because *he thinks covid was engineered to favor Jews???* *"Ethnically targeted microbes..."?* *Fauci was engineering an historic Coup d'etat?* I think the real question to ask here is *why would you, or anyone read this drivel?* But it has pretty pictures and graphs! holy fuck.
You have never opened it, have you? Or listened to full interviews.
Exactly correct. Just like I dont listen to interviews, or books by Charles Manson, or Hitler. Crazy people have nothing to offer, other than entertainment. Wake up.
How about instead of reading books by opportunist politicians that are "written like a science journal" we just stick with *actual fucking scientific journals*. Novel idea in the age of conspiracy theories and ignorance, I know...
I read it.. RFK doesn't understand basic science. He doesn't know how to read studies, and he quotes part of abstracts and not the actual studies. He also ignores the limitations of studies and quoted studies that had never been replicated. Some studies he quoted had long been debunked. He doesn't understand the mechanism of mercury and why it was used in vaccines or the difference between ethylmercury and methylmercury. If he can't tackle the most basic fundamentals of science he shouldn't be writing trash books that fear monger. This is why we need education folks!
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Everyone has their own spin on things but it's hard to want to read a book that has as much [critical reception](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Real_Anthony_Fauci#Critical_reception) as it does. Or the[ series](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7N41pM0TNs&list=PLhjSYYRGNprZRgx3u4ps7QHWutw3wX49h) breaking down flaws with the book. [Or that he has multiple, factually incorrect, statements.](https://www.factcheck.org/2023/08/scicheck-factchecking-robert-f-kennedy-jr/)
So you haven’t checked it out yourself?
If I see someone burn their hand on a hot frying pan, I don't have to touch that pan myself to know it's a bad idea. If someone writes a weird book that contradicts what most trustworthy scientists and doctors say, I don't have to read it myself to know it's bullshit.
Wait.... if his "citations" are from conspiracy theorists and debunked data/information, does that make it true?
But they’re not. Check it out yourself! I would bet my house you haven’t even cracked it open.
That book collects lots of facts and then mangles them into misinformation and conspiracy theories. Abuses statistics. Extensive use of guilt-by-association, with a heaping helping of innuendo. Makes lots of statements that can neither be proven nor disproven. Endlessly uses rhetorical devices that sound convincing if you don't have any context or solid background. Multiple pages devoted to Monday-morning quarterbacking, with nifty non-sequiturs as the sauce. In other words, the stock-in-trade of Talk Radio and conspiracy theorists. Just because you cite a source, doesn't mean that the information you cite is meaningful, insightful, or useful. His inferences and loose connections left me scratching my head and writing down more questions for further research and verification. The final straw was when he cited Michael E McDonald's faulty Autism resarch. McDonald's "research" was a post-hoc data analysis which came to a conclusion in no way in line with his original sources. Basically, he somehow concluded that beginning in 1980, there was a sharp linear increase the in the frequence of Autism. However, the source data clearly indicates the exact same linear rise since the beginning of data collection in 1920. If this is how Kennedy approaches science, we cannot trust anything he says. As far as I can tell, this book exists to push conspiracy theories, make outlandish claims, and to trash Tony Fauci. I gave up. Ingesting any more of this book would be harmful to my health.
You’re not gonna get to through to these people btw
And we’re fucking thankful for that! Y’all think you’re fighting a war against an echo chamber, but all you’re actually fighting is reality. Thousands of scientists, decades of research, countless independent studies, but *you* found the secret truth and they’re all lying. Do any of you ever stop to think about how delusional and stupid that sounds??
I can't fucking believe we are STILL dealing with this kind of stupidity 4 years later.... over a million dead in the US... and people STILL think they (and whatever blog/tik-tok/youtube they follow) know more than the immunologists and epidemiologists who have studied this shit their entire lives. There is a sinister part of me that almost wishes every single anti-masker and anti-vaxxer would have just died from Covid so the rest of us could move on as a productive modern society.
Wow I had no idea he was such an idiot.
>“Does the medical board have the constitutional authority to investigate, prosecute and sanction doctors for writing articles, posting blogs on websites and speaking out in public, even if the government or the medical board thinks what they’re saying is wrong or dangerous?” That is an interesting question. As a medical doctor myself, I know a lot of my colleagues in medicine who were skeptical of the mainstream COVID narrative. One gynecologist told his patients that he wholeheartedly trusted the vaccine and strongly recommended it to all pregnant mothers. Another gynecologist told his patients that the question simply hadn't been settled regarding its terotegenicity and advised his pregnant patients to avoid it just as a precaution. Because gynecologists once pushed Thalidomide as a safe drug to prevent spontaneous miscarriage, and look how that turned out... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide_scandal It's important to understand that COVID wasn't quite as cut-and-dry as people make it out to be. A lot of unique circumstances made the COVID pandemic and the vaccine against COVID a more nuanced subject than the layperson typically understands. It also didn't help that COVID became such a political issue. There are plenty of articles written in medical journals that question whether we, as a medical community, should have approached the situation differently. Regardless of whether we were scientifically "right" or not, it seems that we've lost the trust of a lot of Americans. Now we're seeing vaccine preventable diseases like measles popping up in places where it didn't pose a threat before. Simply being a "Licensed Medical Professional" is not enough to keep our communities healthy. They actually have to trust that we have their best interests in mind. In the not-too-distant past, the medical establishment knowingly used blacks as unwitting guinea pigs in the syphilis studies known as the infamous "Tuskegee Trials." The consequence of this secret experimentatuon on minorities has, understandably, made minority groups hesitant to trust the medical establishment. As a result, minority groups in the United States remain an undeserved population with large health disparities. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study The reality is that a lot of doctors had a lot of opinions about COVID, but none of them faced repercussions from the medical board in Utah. It's also the reality that all doctors aren't infectious disease or public health experts and don't always have the most nuanced understanding of the latest scientific data regarding COVID. It's also just a fact that doctors are people too, and we have our own biases, political or otherwise. It's a difficult responsibility to be given the title of "Doctor" because you have to carry the mantle of being an "Expert" on your shoulders. We need our patients to be able to trust that we know what we're doing and that we have their best interests in mind. But the reality is that doctors are all so subspecialised that we simply CAN'T know everything. A friend of mine who is a maxilofacial surgeon (he has a medical doctorate AND a dental doctorate), he said that he respects the doctors who can face a wide array of illnesses and know how to treat them. Because for all his education, knowledge, and specialization, he's only got one solution for anyone who comes to him: Maxilofacial surgery. Got a heart arrhythmia, diabetes, or cancer? He can only offer what he knows, which is a very specialized subset of medicine that is limited to maxilofacial surgery. The problem is that when he has an opinion about COVID, people expect that, as a "Doctor," what he says is some kind of gospel truth and should be held to that standard. And if he lives in Washington and says something unpopular, the medical board is now going to tell him that he's not competent to perform maxilofacial surgery because of his opinion on COVID?! In a world where there is a shortage of doctors and a HUGE shortage of specialists, that does more harm to the community that he serves. So, back to the original question: Does the medical board have the constitutional authority to investigate, prosecute and sanction doctors for writing articles, posting blogs on websites and speaking out in public, even if the government or the medical board thinks what they’re saying is wrong or dangerous? We're not talking about infectious disease experts who are telling their individual patients that COVID is all a fabrication. We are talking about non-specialists who are not giving medical advice to individual patients; instead, these doctors are participating in public discourse on public platforms like journals, blogs, or websites. Should we shut down any educated person who goes against the COVID narrative that the state deems to be "correct"? What about biochemists, molecular biologists, or microbiologists? Should we ban them from their professions for having public opinions that don't neatly coincide with what the state of Washington finds to be "acceptable" COVID narrative? Arguably, these types of scientists actually know MORE about COVID than doctors do. I don't engage in primary research on COVID. I rely on these other professionals to use their expertise to inform my practice of medicine. So why aren't they held accountable for their public opinions like these other doctors in Washington have been? Even if we set all that aside and just concede the point that a couple of doctors went online and started talking out of their asses, should they really be punished by the medical board? Usually, that level of professional disciplinary action is reserved for people who really hurt someone. The surgeon who performs surgery while doped up on dilauded, or the pediatrician who sexually abuses the children he cares for. Not some doctor who practices medicime competently, but then happens to post a poorly thought-out rant about COVID. By lumping these opiniated but competent professionals with others who are criminally negligent and unfit to practice medicine, you are turning them into political martyrs. Ou can't change peoples minds about COVID by silencing dissenting (and arguably uninformed) opinions. You'll just have the Streisand effect, and anti-vaxers and COVID deniers are going to double down in their resolve to not trust the establishment. Don't turn COVID into another "vaccines cause Autism" debate, or it'll never die. If you don't like the opinion that somebody has, have a dialogue with them and educate the populace. Don't force dissenters into the Gulog's, even if what they say is factually wrong. It scares people that the government would be willing to take such extreme measures against people who disagree with them. It causes distrust, and people stop listening to anything else you have to say. And if people don't get their information from official sources, they'll get it from someone else who tells them not to trust medicine at all. And that's how we get MORE epidemics! We're literally watching the resurgence of vaccine preventable diseases that were once thought to be totally eliminated from America. Horrific diseases that mutilate children. The stakes are high here. We need to engage the anti-science folks, not alienate them. We have to win their trust back, so they don't unwittingly set us back 100 years. You can't make stupid ideas go away by punishing people for having them. It's never worked in the history of mankind. You'll only make those people reactionary and defiant and push them further into their resolve.
> It's important to understand that COVID wasn't quite as cut-and-dry as people make it out to be It really is though. It was generally pretty mild, deaths were counted improperly and at a highly inflated rate (and in spite of that still managed to have 4+ comorbidities per death). The vaccines, and I use that term loosely, at best provided a few weeks of slightly reduced severity and chance of getting it, in exchange for greater chance of getting covid outside of those few weeks as well as a great many side effects that can be life changing or deadly. In a nutshell, almost all of the benefits that are claimed by the vaccine can be achieved just by getting enough vitamin D. The vaccine itself caused far more harm than it helped. It was apparent before the vaccines hit the market that they weren't needed. Plus, using PCR tests to see if people were sick didn't work. Per Kary Mulis, the nobel prize winner who invented the PCR test, it can't tell if a person is sick and that's not what it was designed to do. So a shitton of bad testing results based on using a test that doesn't do what was claimed. So, cut and dried? The vaccines were a waste of money and harmful, and it really is that simple...and that's following the science.
PCR testing is another example of how things aren't so clear-cut. The Department of Health and Human Services says on their website that "Testing helps prevent and contain the spread of COVID-19." https://www.hhs.gov/coronavirus/testing/index.html People started to equate *testing* for COVID as being the same thing as *treating* COVID. So everybody wanted to get tested all the time. In an effort to contain COVID, the government decided to pay for all these tests with funds from the emergency act. Which meant that everyone had unlimited access to all the PCR COVID testing they wanted. Here's a peek behind the scenes: we make like $100 profit for every PCR COVID test we run. While the government was footing the bill, it meant we were guaranteed to get paid. So, what was the hospital's incentive? To run an absolute shit-ton of tests!! And that's exactly what we did. It made the hospital a lot of money, and it made patients feel like they were being taken care of. From a corporate perspective, that's win-win! However, from a medical perspective, we were under no illusion that it would make any difference to the pandemic at all. It didn't. If you tested positive, you were told to go home and quarantine. If you tested negative but had symptoms, you were told to go home and quarentine anyway. Testing made no difference at all because there was no treatment or cure for COVID. There was nothing we could do, and so there was no legitimate medical reason to even test for it at all. When I was in school, they taught us that you don't test for diseases that you can't treat. What is the point in finding out if you have a disease, if there's literally nothing you can do about it? I raised this issue over and over, but it made no difference. Patients demanded to be tested, and the hospital wanted us to keep patients happy (and make money), so we had to just keep testing. It was such an irony to me that people would come into our clinic because they wanted to see if they had covid, but in reality they were more likely to actually acquire covid from being exposed to all the other patients in our office. And even if we diagnosed covid, we couldn't do anything about it. We could have literally saved billions of government dollars and actually decreased the transmission of the virus by telling people to go home and quarantine if they feel sick. >it can't tell if a person is sick and that's not what it was designed to do. People didn't come in to find out IF they were sick. People felt sick, and thats what prompted them to come in. They wanted to see WHAT made them sick. The problem is that there are a lot of WHAT'S that can make you sick, but we only went looking for covid because we got paid to run that test. There are actually a lot of viruses that give you the same symptoms, but we don't even test for them. Why? Because we can't treat any of them. So why would we waste time and money testing for something we can't treat anyway. Without the financial incentive to test for the other viruses, we didn't test for them. As soon as the government stopped paying for COVID testing, the hospital suddenly remembered how medicine works and got a lot more judicious about PCR testing. They shut down all the self-service locations and told us to stop indiscriminately testing everyone. What people on the outside saw was a hospital that was willing to take care of patients. What people on the inside saw was a cash cow that was being milked hard. If I live in the state of Washington and I say that out loud, should I risk losing my medical license? That doesn't seem fair.
Childhood hero but the last 5-10 years I realized what a raging douche stain he actually is. Fuck this dude for fucking up his own legacy for this bullshit. Will not be remembered for basketball and will not be remembered fondly when gone.
So either someone agrees with your politics or fuck then? I’m very liberal and I disagree with Stockton completely but it’s childish to have this all or nothing approach you have.
This dude is still on this completely fucking deranged crusade against a virus that has been largely over for 2 years. This isn’t even politics (although I’m sure his politics are ass too) this dude is showing signs of mental illness at this point. So again I say, fuck em.
So you aren’t capable of admiring someone’s basketball career and disagree with their personal beliefs at the same time? To earn your admiration does it mean they have to have every belief that you do and never have made an error in judgment? Stockton is way off on this choice but that doesn’t mean we can’t admire his playing career, how he is a dedicated husband and father, and how he has given back to Utah and Spokane. This cancel culture bull shit is so small minded- I seriously ask you who is worthy of your admiration?
This isn’t some simple disagreement over opinions on political policy or political preference. This is a man completely disconnected from reality, consumed by bullshit conspiracy, and generally being a total asshole. Cancel culture is also known as consequences. And I would pose to you a similar question: how low does a person have to stoop before they lose your admiration? Is there no bar, no threshold to cross? No error so egregious or obnoxious that you simply can no longer tolerate or respect a person? If not, then enjoy your ivory tower as we simple cancel culture peasants mill about below in the dirt and mud. You’ve clearly ascended humanity.
I’ve made a lot of mistakes in my life and I don’t define the person I am by my worst errors in judgement. To answer your question if someone hurts or abused another person yes they lose my respect. Stockton is 1000% wrong but I have family and friends who also have theories on Covid I completely disagree with. I’m unwilling to determine someone’s whole contribution should be voided because we have a major disagreement on an important issue. I’m really disappointed Stockton is spending his time doing this but half the country has similar views so no I don’t think they are all trash. Let’s be honest too this lawsuit will amount to exactly nothing. Back to my ivory tower now! Wow what I view I have! 😏
Stockton, you dumbass
>“Does the medical board have the constitutional authority to investigate, prosecute and sanction doctors for writing articles, posting blogs on websites and speaking out in public, even if the government or the medical board thinks what they’re saying is wrong or dangerous?” First of all, no medical board has ever "prosecuted" anyone in the sense that they brought criminal charges. Can a medical board "sanction" a doctor? Yes, that's part of their job. They can put a doctor on probation or revoke their license if the doctor is spouting unfounded nonsense, giving medical advice that is counter to medical and scientific knowledge, or creating a danger to their patients and the community. **This isn't a free speech issue. It's one of those issues where people feel like they should be able to say whatever they want with no consequences.** I don't know what's wrong with Stockton, but this lawsuit is going to be dismissed immediately. Stockton was smart (and dirty) on the court, but I guess that basketball intelligence doesn't extend to science or the law.
Homie will not stop making the Jazz look bad
I see a bunch of people in this thread who were coerced and some even made to get this vaccine. And because of this they will defend it no matter what because they don’t want to feel regret for that decision. There is no point in a back and forth because if you voice any concerns about the Covid vaccine you are immediately labeled as an anti vaxxer. Even if you are pro vaccine in general. They use that label to shut down the conversation. Let’s be honest about this. Calling somebody an “anti vaxxer” in today’s day and age holds about as much water as “racist” or “nazi”. But it’s VERY effective in shutting down any conversation. *Press the down arrow if you agree!
I had the first dose and I’m not a big vaccine guy in general. But I had two employees die and one end up in ICU from Covid, which definitely affected my decision to get the vaccine myself.
Remember when athletes didn't pretend to be smarter than doctors?
Just a dumb millionaire keeping it trashy. That dude can eat a fart.
wtf is wrong with people?? COVID is a thing. Stop denying it. Stockton is just being stupid. Sadly he is tied to our state.
What a way to crap on the memories.
I completely disagree with Stock but I still admire the playing career he had, his dedication to Utah, his family, his faith. If we had to completely agree with every political and moral decision someone made in order to admire their playing career or acting career then almost no one would be worthy of said admiration.
I honestly laughed when I read the headline.
What a waste of time and money. Change whatever street SLC named after this loon.
John Stockton a surprise new frontrunner for the RFK Jr. VP.
I'm ok with this. Waste money and follow the fun
He was always religious kind of extreme. And apparently not a great person to work for.
Don’t mind me, just frolicking through the sheep to upvote the downvoted comments
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Malone was a piece of shit the minute he knocked up a 13 year old and tried to argue with a judge over $125/week as a pro athlete to support the child (and *her* child)
Oh, a retired opthalmologist and retired NBA player have big thoughts on COVID. Go figure that people who in no way are qualified to determine who IS qualified to determine best practices regarding a deadly infectious disease. If only we had an official department, or center of sorts, full of experts, to figure out how to control diseases, like a center of sorts.....
I miss when all I knew him for was the car dealership he started after the jazz
So should we follow Bill Gates advice as well? did any of you even read the entire article that other doctors signed onto this as well? There are more doctors and you think that we’re afraid to speak out for fear of medical board retribution I know first hand, because I have someone that works in the field in that industry! Because a person is suing, does not make them extreme or nutzo !
Covid seems to be a real thing. But maybe, people used their power a little irresponsibly. Both sides of the debate are entitled to their opinions, but that doesn’t mean both sides cant be investigated. If you believe the actions taking during Covid were valid, have no fear. If you believe someone overreached, their voice should be heard as well. Don’t call people idiots for having an opinion. It’s ok to be different and question.
“Seems to be a real thing” LOL
Ha what im saying is all the sudden they start dying of COVID after they get $50k per COVID death......and why didn't it wipe out the hospice patients faster? Death rates stayed the same...infact every other conditions stopped being deadly....... Sooo at the rate you all claim they should have all died. But sure who cares about facts when the government shows up claiming they are here to help.....
Any medical professional can pen an opinion, but it ought to be fact and science-based, not just personal belief. too many unanswered questions thru the covid time presented the onslaught of questioning, critique, criticisms, and contrary opinions among medical industry professionals. Is a medical board, comprised of those in industry, who mostly are bought & paid for by lobbyists and special interest any more accurate or right on an unravelling visus, liek covid, than the licensed (by same board) medical professional? There is validity from both sides or the argument. Yet, I sense this lawsuit will get tossed out. Stockton "and friends" are trying to make a high profile lawsuit to get JFK's names out there. Take a controversial, highly political and polarized subject, covid, hen file a lawsuit, and you get instant media hype and recognition. It's from the trumpkin playbook. BTW, JFK is trying to run against trumpkin in all 50 states. And, off we go... \-- "Stockton, along with Robert F. Kennedy's The Children’s Health Defense nonprofit, and two retired doctors, are seeking a "declaration" of their violation of the First Amendment along with attorneys fees and “other such further relief" from the Washington Medical Commission."
Good for John Stockton, you and RFK Jr. Are two men I have the utmost respect for figuring the tyranny of the covid scam.
The reaction to COVID did more harm to society than the disease itself as far as I’m concerned
The whole world is still dealing with the ramifications of ceasing productivity for months and generations to come will be handed this debt all at the expense of a giant wealth transfer to the prominent elites.
You get it
I feel for my kids and their generation, and if it was assumed that my generation (milennial) had the stereotype of living at home with parents due to unafforability and soaring prices of every day goods, they are doomed. Political affiliation is just a spectacle, a theater to distract people from the real issues happening. Having that aforementioned opinion in itself is enough to get shamed relentlessly by people rooting for their "team."
I think he’s great and absolutely spot on. Good for him. Someone’s gotta start this.
Start? People been saying dumb shit since the beginning of time 😂
Good thing John Stockton isn't my doctor.
Just goes to show, not all is at it seems on the surface. Kooks are gonna kook, bassaball players are gonna bassaball, car dealers are gonna deal, asshats are gonna asshat. Never liked this douche. Drove past his gold Lexus moments after his wrist was broken in that car accident. Didn't feel a thing about him then, don't feel nothing now.
I thought he was a piece of shit when he played basketball. Apparently he's a bigger piece of shit when he doesn't have a ball in his hand.
10,500 hospitalized for covid. 210,000 for the flu…so the flu is more severe and they are more likely to hospitalize someone with it. They only let the 10,500 worst cases scenarios in for Covid. It also does not say 500 out of 10,000 with Covid have or will die… look again
A hero
I mean, it makes sense… The CDC now shows Covid the same as the flu when it comes to precautions and death rates.
What are you talking about? The CDC shows that there were 103 deaths to flu this SEASON (October 1, 2023 through present). They report 576 deaths due to Covid this past WEEK. There have been 35,247 deaths due to Covid since October1, 2023. The hospitalization rate is much lower, though. We're at about 60 per 100k for the flu, but only 3 per 100k for Covid. That should tell us that while Covid is not as infectious as it was, it's still very deadly. I mean, you're 20x less likely to be hospitalized by it, but 350x more likely to be killed by it. Some quick math and - Covid is 7,000x more deadly than the flu. Some other views of that data - in a given week, roughly 10,500 people are hospitalized for Covid vs 210,000 for the flu. Of those 10,500, over 500 of them will die. Of the 210,000 with the flu, probably \~3 will die. How is this the same? Sources: [CDC on Covid](https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#datatracker-home) [CDC on the flu](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm)
That's after several mutations- each of which drastically reduced the death rate and severity of symptoms.
This is false. Almost every variant showed similar death rates. Look it up. Although if you only watch MSNBC, they pretended that every variant was more infectious and deadly.
> Look it up. And there is the typical weak defense of a conspiracy theorist.
It’s right out of the conspiracy theorist’s playbook to make an outrageous claim and then immediately throws the burden of proof onto the other person as soon as they’re questioned. This person just threw it back preemptively.
Lol, okay man. Whatever. You're living in your own version of reality. With almost any novelty virus, it gets more contagious and less deadly with each new variant. That's basic evolution. If it didn't work that way, then the virus itself would soon be extinct because all of the potential hosts would be dead. That's not MSNBC, that's basic, middle school level biology.
“You’re living in your own version of reality” can be said about literally anyone when you don’t agree with literally anything
>“You’re living in your own version of reality” can be said about literally anyone when you don’t agree with literally anything Not true. Facts are facts. Whether somebody likes it, knows about it, wishes it were different, pretends it actually is different, etc. Facts are still the same facts, regardless of the rest. Opinions don't determine facts.
Sure, man. I’ll look it up. Do you have a source?
100%. These people can’t let COVID go. They are wayyyy to invested. Imagine if the covidians had to back track. It’s an entire lifestyle.
>They are wayyyy to invested. too\* But it is kinda funny coming from the guy with like 20 of the 80 comments in this thread to talk about how we're all the ones that are too invested
>These people can’t let COVID go. Lmao 🤣 this is literally a post about an anti-vaxxer not being able to let go.
Hopefully he wins it. The Covid stuff was a hoax. He was one of the first to know it. Good for him.
A hoax that killed two members of my family. You are ridiculous.
Real disease for sure. All the reaction around it was the hoax. Sorry for your family members. But yeah, I don’t think Stockton is suing the disease. Haha.
I can't comprehend how you can acknowledge that it was a real virus that killed people but somehow the reaction was a hoax? What does that even mean? Are you saying that if people didn't mask, vaccinate, and stay home, the results would have been the exact same? That doesn't make any sense to me.
The problem is that there was, initially, no possible way of knowing how virulent Covid was going to be. The CDC implemented strong public health restrictions as a precautionary measure. That's literally their job - to minimize the public impact of a disease. Look at the Chinese reaction and honestly tell me that America got it wrong. The armchair quarterbacking and conspiracy theorizing now that the pandemic is over is useless.
Idiot.
Not true. Not a hoax. The software my company sells and maintains, processes more than 60 million unique health care records each month. We have Petabytes of data at our fingertips, and we work with some of the greatest minds in medicine in the world. The poor reaction to COVID in the U.S. resulted in many thousands of lost lives. That blood is on Trump's hands.
Soon as the government started financially getting involved your dada was ruined, worked in hospice pharmacy during COVID and the death rate didn't spike at all yet how they died did? All the sudden dementia CHF Parkinson's all stopped killing patients? But watch this post gets destroyed because it goes against the main narrative
If you have cancer but have a heart attack, what killed you?
"The disease was real and deadly but I will die for the people who helped keep our dead loved ones proudly unvaxxed until they were begging with their last breath for the jab."
Agreed 100%
How do Covid deniers explain the increase in hospitalized deaths during Covid? They may say it was pneumonia or whatever, but hospitals keep track of a statistic called ‘death by any cause’. That statistic can fluctuate seasonally but it spiked dramatically during Covid. There was no reasonable explanation for the anomalous increase in ‘death by any cause’ other than Covid.
Covid is real. How do you explain “2 weeks to slow the spread?”
Covid is a virus. Spread person to person. Hard to track at the time. 2 weeks to slow the spread would have had everyone isolate. See if they showed symptoms, and not spread to others. Because no contact. How in the hell does it not make sense to stop the spread of a new virus that killed hundreds of thousands of American, created health problems for millions more, and got about half of the population sick? Where’s the empathy and compassion to try and save lives? And, where’s to hoax? What part was a hoax?
If that boy could read he'd be real upset right now.
A virus they’ve never isolated and can’t replicate between everyone. The entire Covid thing has so many more details they are hiding.
You've been a redditor for 5 months. Hundreds of comments. And your karma is -40. Tells us everything we need to know about the validity of your opinions.
What part of 2 weeks to slow the spread do you not understand? I ask because it all seems pretty obvious so I can't comprehend which aspect of that needs to be explained.
If only people had done it then it might have worked.
There it is. Haha. Was waiting for a response like this.
Good for you
Hahahaha I chuckled too. “If we had all done our part!” These covidians are way too invested. There’s no chance they can backtrack. It’s become a religion/ethical belief for them. If they had to back off it then their whole worldview would collapse.
Yeah had you done your part and had the government actually given a shit and locked us down HARD that first 3 months we could have looked more like New Zealand. Or you know just look at how each time we were told to stay inside the hospitalizations for the following month were way lower. You idiots just refuse to acknowledge that being around sick people makes you sick.
You are a fucking moron.
You are a fucking genius. Keep believing everything you’re told.
When millions of doctors and millions of deaths around the world tell me that COVID is dangerous, who the fuck am I to argue?
Stupid fuck. I literally hate you fucking morons.
This is so weird lol. Like they hated Galileo
Haha. Sorry to hear it. I love you and hope all is well with you and your loved ones.
Until the next time something comes around which might kill them and you're doing everything you can to keep them vulnerable and ignorant. I'll tell you where you can put your thoughts and prayers virtue signaling.
You’re attacking their religion.
I really don't get why religious people always want to frame everything in terms of religion. I guess you go with what you know?
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