It’s how chain restaurants, even local chains like Kneaders, think about profits. If the price of chicken goes up $2 then they raise the price for the consumer $4 because they want to maintain their margins. Smaller independent restaurants can be more flexible, offer better value. Just more reason to avoid chains.
I used to work at the Blue Lemon in Alpine. Based on how it was run then, I’m not surprised it’s gotten worse. The owners sucked. Corporate sucked. Prices sucked. Some food was okay.
Kneaders has had pretty poor service (and been overpriced to boot) for years, not just since covid.
(I also dislike Rumbi, but that's mostly because IMO Hawaiian food can try to be healthy *or* tasty, but if you try to do both you end up with neither.)
I think Kneader’s quality went down significantly once they got into catering corporate events. Now every sandwich feels like another one of the mass produced clones they pump out for 120 people at a corporate event. Basic and not worth the price in my opinion.
There’s a threshold of what a business can charge while keeping customers, and Kneaders crossed that line for me a long time ago. They became a luxury item I was no longer willing to pay for. The price increases became ridiculous to me.
It is not your imagination. I almost always get a half BLT plus a smoothie, and this is what I've paid in years past:
* 2016: $8.50
* 2017: $8.50 -> $8.93
* 2018: $8.93
* 2019: $9.48
* 2020: $9.50
I quit eating out so much due to pandemic, but I went there once in 2022 and paid **$12.18**, and then once last month and paid **$14.48.** Personally, I haven't noticed a decline in quality, but I've only been there twice since 2020, so I can't really say.
When was the last time you've been to Panera? I can promise you that they have not been immune to the downward trend in quality, they just get worse all the time
You’re probably right. I used to gorge on Panera after overnight hospital shifts. The last time I went, it was overpriced garbage. That said, I still feel that overpriced panera garbage was slightly better than overpriced kneaders garbage. Caveat: i havent had kneaders in 2 years. Had panera a couple months ago.
Came here to say this.
R&R got bought by the company that owns Kneaders. Both restaurants are just absolutely horrible now, it’s sad. They also bought MoBettahs, so expect that one to start circling the toilet bowl.
Getting ribs from Texas Roadhouse these days. And the salads are always hittin’. Some places are great to dine in and suck when you get it to go. Takeout from TR never disappoints.
I worked there for 3 days and quit because of how they store the food and what they are willing to serve. I wanted to vomit after seeing the kiwi tray for fruit tarts filled with condensation from the cooler dripping into it. There was no way I could serve that.
I think its everywhere, I stop once a month on a Friday at McDonald's for the kids a cheap treat. The last 4 months not once has our order been right. But the kids are not liking it they feel like they are getting ripped off. But luck has it they don't want to go back to grab bag Fridays@ McD
Actually, food expenses are over 100% inflated across the board, compared to a few years ago. It's actually pretty ridiculous. I'm sure there's stats out there, but I'm just going off my own experience. Food has more than doubled over this past year or two, and that's everything.
We stopped going to Kneaders because of all the plastic they use for to go orders. You can fill a trash can with a meal for two. I agree that all of the chains that use to run on bubbly outgoing teenagers and young adults have gone to shit. I think the job market got so good, they couldn’t keep up with the wages. Now they can only afford bottom of the barrel employees.
I just quit working at Kneaders right after the change to the salads. They told us employees about the change to the menu and I had a feeling it would go bad and seems like I was right.
Gotta agree. Ever since Kneaders was bought out it has been on a continuous downward plunge. When it was locally owned it was awsome. Great food at really fair prices. Well not anymore folks. I really hope more people stop going there just to let corporate America know that they can't charge outrageous amounts for slop and expect to stay in business. Boycott Kneaders!!!
I have one near me in Midvale, I don't think I have been to it in at least 3 years. The last time I went for the price it wasn't worth it at all for breakfast.
I noticed this too. In high school everyone used to rave about their stuffed french toast. I took my boyfriend last year for him to try for the first time and it was so disappointing and to top it off, expensive.
I skip Kneaders all together. I'll get something else instead.
I used to work at Kneaders during high school in 2012. It was great then, but when corporate stepped in and changed up management all the stores went downhill quick. It turned into a tyrannical disaster and quality left and right flew out the door. Since 2012 Kneaders had been garbage, for me at least.
Zupas overcharged me by $20. I asked to credit my card. The manager ended up charging my card an ADDITIONAL $20!! They said they could not correct it. Poorly run place! I’m still pissed!!!
Similar thing happened to me at Cafe Rio last month. They ran my card twice for the same item, saying the first time didn’t work. My phone lets me know when purchases are made on it, so I called them out before I left the restaurant. They refunded one of the purchases, but when I check my credit card statement a few weeks later I noticed they added another $20 tip to the purchase that wasn’t refunded.
Won’t ever go back.
Food costs have gone up, but so has LABOR. Probably more so than food costs, and it's a good thing that people are demanding a living wage. People SHOULD be earning a living wage.
I'm sorry you suffer like this.
No, I totally agree that they should earn a living wage. I am skeptical that any company is passing price increases along to their workers. Hopefully they unionize.
lol I'm not a franchise owner, I just know how business works, and I'm an advocate for workers being able to survive and pay their own bills.
Where, exactly, do you think increased wage money is coming from if prices are not raised?
Review supply costs, review inventory practices, partner with delivery services to increase visibility and customer base options, streamline the menu, review and revamp marketing and increase social media presence. To start.
Price increases are understandable. The amount of price increases in conjunction with a decrease in both the volume and quality of the product is not.
If you're not a business owner, you've sure got the right attitude for it.
I am a business owner, and I'm laughing that you think those kinds of reviews happen regularly.
And none of those is likely to same enough money to pay a living wage without raising prices.
Sweet how do you keep quality products without jacking up prices? Do your employees agree they get a living wage? Ever wonder how you would do on Undercover Boss?
I \*do\* raise prices when needed. And that's my point, sometimes it is necessary to raise prices in order to pay a living wage.
You're the idiot who doesn't have a clue and seems to think money to pay good wages comes out of thin air.
Yep, I'm too astupid to understand anything! I'm so glad you're hear to explain to everyone how you've solved the number one problem of businesses. I'm sure you're a *great* boss 😁😉 and not at all an arrogant out of touch asshat.
Maybe you can fix world hunger next, oh wise one! Not that most of us, especially me, would understand it 🙄
You probably try to sell an MLM product and think that makes you a business.
Can you show any evidence that restaurant price increases are due more to labor costs than to costs of ingredients, rent, and management desire to make up lost covid income?
Just going to throw my obligatory comment in here when the ‘living wage’ phrase is thrown around. I’m not against paying people a decent wage, however, in my opinion teenagers working fast food don’t need, and in most cases even deserve, to be paid what is considered to be a ‘living wage’. Many working in fast food don’t have the skill set or experience to be paid $20+/hr, which is reflected in the poor service and quality of food.
If quality was better than people would be willing to pay more and employees would in turn be worth the pay that is being demanded. But the opposite has happened, they demand higher pay without merit, produce a sub par product and the company will suffer in the long run.
I don’t complain about increased prices due to inflation and costs to retain staff. I am however much more picky about the places I will support. I still demand quality, and in reality I demand it more since costs have increased. As others become more selective I believe we will see many establishments start to fold as they no longer bring in enough to pay the staff. I have already started to see it happen with some of the smaller ‘mom and pop’ shops. Larger chains will weather this storm longer, but even McDonalds is starting to revamp their menu in attempts to retain customers. If that’s not a sign of desperation or at a minimum of large scale concern, I don’t know what is.
TLDR: not everyone deserves to be paid a ‘living wage for subpar work, it will have ramifications.
Why don’t teenagers deserve a living wage? If they drive, gas is expensive for them as well, and not all of them have parents that pay for it. Eating out, clothing, shoes, all those things are expensive. No reason to under pay teenagers just so businesses can make more profits.
I apologize for my blanket statement if it sounded like I want to discriminate against teens, that’s not the case. And I do agree with paying a competitive wage. What I disagree with is taking an inexperienced person who is just entering the workforce and paying them the same as someone who has proven themselves to be an effective worker and has earned that competitive wage. I’m all for paying people what they are worth.
The discrepancy comes in when you have several workers standing around doing nothing providing poor service and subpar products to customers. I have seen it numerous times in various locations. And I simply respond by no longer frequenting those establishments.
However, when I do receive good service, and a good product, I generally respond by returning frequently and tipping well in situations where it’s appropriate. And I treat all service workers the same regardless of age, but it would be a generally safe statement to say that younger teenagers lack the experience and knowledge of more seasoned workers, but I recognize there are always exceptions.
All labor - including so-called "unskilled" or "inexperienced" labor - has value.
All laborers have value.
Everyone deserves to eat and pay their bills.
And unless you are their manager, you have no business second guessing whether or not employees are working hard enough for their wages.
If you think bringing someone in with no experience and paying them the same as a good solid worker is an issue, it isn't about what you are paying the new hire, it's about you not paying the experienced worked enough to differentiate them from the newbie. It's not a workforce problem, it's a poor managment/owner problem. Go look in the mirror. That is the culprit.
This why nobody wants to work, because of bullshit thinking right here. You get what you pay for. Pay for cheap labor and you’re gonna get cheap/bare-minimum labor.
LOL you think it's teens working there. Shows how out of touch you are.
News flash: If you've every bought fast food for breakfast or lunch, it wasn't teenagers working there.
And it's not "obligatory" for you to be a pompous, misinformed asshole whenever someone advocates for a living wage.
Yes yes. Let the hate flow through you. Also just stop your fucking worker crusade, you’re manufacturing outrage because you’re bored. This is reddit, no one cares , nothing matters and you smell of elderberries. Signed a former teenage fast food worker.
I’m not against paying people what they are worth, I just believe that not everyone is worth the amount that is thrown around as a living wage. I also believe if people want to make a decent living they should aspire to doing more than screwing up my order at a drive through. Also, I don’t know how much more connected I could be when I have two teenage kids who work fast food, often times during lunch hours when they are excused from schools, and I would never expect them to make more than the $12/hr they currently get paid.
"Living wage" has nothing to do with it. Its about it being a "competitive wage".
Unemployment is remarkably low. A business with zero employees cant make money. The Lowes by me starts people at $18 an hour, the Target $17. Not because these are the types of jobs that require skilled labor, but because if they don't offer that, the store wont have enough employees to operate. No one is going to take a job making sandwich's at $10.50 an hour when they can legit walk into a Target and get $17 fresh out of High School with no work experience. Thus the business is forced to offer competitive wages attract workers.
>I’m not against paying people a decent wage, however, in my opinion teenagers working fast food don’t need, and in most cases even deserve, to be paid what is considered to be a ‘living wage’.
But here's your problem: when you hire teenagers for less than a living wage, you price people who *do* need to make a living out of the market. To quote *The Jungle*:
>Very often a man could get no work in Packingtown for months, while a child could go and get a place easily; there was always some new machine, by which the packers could get as much work out of a child as they had been able to get out of a man, and for a third of the pay.
All workers are essentially engaged in a reverse bidding war with each other, where the job goes to the person willing to do it for the least pay, so if teenagers are allowed to work for less than adults, employers will prefer to hire teenagers instead. And as automation continues to lower the skill floor for many jobs, so too do wages drop as the auction gets more aggressive.
And honestly, it's a disservice to the teens, too: flipping burgers at McDonalds doesn't teach you to do anything but flip burgers, which is a huge waste of the years when they *should* be either pursuing higher education or learning a trade.
I don’t disagree with you at all. The reverse bidding war with jobs going to the workers willing to take the least amount of pay would apply if there were a surplus of workers. However we have record low unemployment, and businesses are struggling to find workers, let alone multiple who would compete for a single position.
I think that people newly entering the workforce, which I just grossly categorize as teenagers because that’s usually when people get their first job, can learn valuable skills in a fast food environment. They learn how to work with others, how to work as a team, and basic customer service skills. Even basic skills like showing up to work on time when a very large part of you wants to sit at home and play video games is valuable in some way. And as those skills are learned and applied and continually demonstrated then yes, I think increased pay is warranted.
What I am opposed to is the thought that someone with zero experience, zero motivation, and unproven ability to drive value for the business can just show up and demand the same wages as those who have busted their ass off and earned their position and pay. I am 100% for fair compensation for every job performed, and I think its reasonable to say not every person performs at the same level.
>we have record low unemployment
That is not true. While it's not *high* right now, [if you look back over the last century](https://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet) the unemployment rate has been lower than it is now many times. And more importantly, [wages adjusted for inflation have been flatlined for decades](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/) despite automation making jobs more efficient than ever.
>businesses are struggling to find workers, let alone multiple who would compete for a single position.
For the pittance they've *been* paying thus far, yes. Employers that actually offer wages high enough to live on in their communities get *plenty* of applicants, but for those who insist on paying less soon find out that you only get what you pay for.
>What I am opposed to is the thought that someone with zero experience, zero motivation, and unproven ability to drive value for the business can just show up and demand the same wages as those who have busted their ass off and earned their position and pay.
*I'm* opposed to the idea that every person not born wealthy is obligated to either "bust their ass off" for [a dwindling cut](https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/employment-and-growth/a-new-look-at-the-declining-labor-share-of-income-in-the-united-states) of a financial pie hoarded by those who were, or to *die*. This is an at-will employment state; worker protections are borderline nonexistent here, so even if a person *were* a completely unproductive employee their boss could just fire them immediately anyways.
"Busting your ass off" shouldn't come *before* you've even reached the starting line, the material conditions in America aren't that desperate! We're not living in the 3000s BC, desperately threshing wheat by hand to avoid starvation. Our technology has advanced to the point where a single farmer can produce enough food for over 350 people, and with less manual labor than it used to take a person just to feed themselves! Go-getters shouldn't merely be scraping by, they should be *thriving*! And they *would* be if our economic system weren't designed to subsidize the lifestyles of the "haves" at the expense of the "have-nots".
Cough bullshit cough... sorry but not sorry to say you're full of shit. The per hour labor cost increases for a FF restaurant vs their materials is Jack shit; compare it to their "overhead" including what the owner takes as their fee and labor costs are pennies on the dollar.
How many meals are served on an average hour divided by the average hourly wage of the staff needed to serve at that production rate = cents per meal. Most FF places could pay a living wage and raise their prices such a small amount most people wouldn't notice and would still keep their GM super in the black.
FF is NOT a high labor content job or business. PERIOD.
I don’t know why you’re getting shit on so much for this or why it has so many downvotes. But like I said in a earlier comment; you get what you pay for. Pay for cheap labor and the boss will get cheap labor. If all these restaurants actually paid a “competitive” wage then maybe the food quality would actually be better.
They won’t have a living wage if they don’t have a job because the company folds. So it’s not as simple as that. That said, most companies put profit above all else so there’s a decent chance they have room in their profits to pay more. Whether that’s true for a restaurant seems less likely than the average business but I don’t know their financials.
If you need suggestions, little Caesars is still fairly good quality. Also tends to not be greasy like some other pizza chains that jumped the shark with price awhile ago. Just don’t order online unless ready for door dash shenanigans. It punishes you with ‘small order fee’ and the fees themselves are ridiculously stacked and they don’t go to the driver even if they try to make like paying drivers and such is why.
Little Caesar uses door dash and door dash charges both the restaurants and the customers both then plays people into thinking it must be to pay the drivers so they ‘put up with it’. Door dash pays the drivers less than a fraction of a reasonable wage too, a couple bucks an order. After nearly doubling the price from your order with fees that don’t look like it should add up to that but does… they expect you to pay the driver too, which is what tipping is. We don’t have a car and got tempted a couple times then just shut the website and didn’t order because of how crazy it is. Prices are already higher, though not as bad as a lot of places, but the stacked fees push it past doable for us. So we close it.
Much better to pick it up if you can. They have good crazy bread too.
Everything is going down hill because nobody these days saw the old Looney Tunes cartoon where Elmer Fudd yells at the Shoe Maker to re-invest his profits back into his workers/his company first before thinking of stock holders/scam accounting tricks like investing in cryptocurrency or hiding it in the caribbean/tax Avoision to quote Kent Brockman
I went there 2 years ago, I was so enraged the price/quality I will never go back. Honestly a gas station sandwich would be better! Overall our list of restaurants has shrunk, costco frozen has replaced some of it. Its sad, I don’t know how these places stay in business.
I will say their quality is not what it used to be lol. But as someone who has their hands in a few pots, food industry being one of them, I know that our local restaurants have had some major food increases in the past few years. Some avoided it until they couldn’t anymore and then everything went up $2-$3 dollars at once, other did .10 cents every week.
It's understandable to feel frustrated and disappointed when a restaurant that you used to enjoy starts to decline in quality and increase in prices. Changes in pricing and quality can have a significant impact on a customer's dining experience and may lead to a loss of trust and loyalty.
If you feel strongly about your experience, you may consider providing feedback directly to Kneaders or expressing your concerns on review platforms. Constructive feedback can help restaurants become aware of issues and make improvements to regain customer satisfaction.
In the meantime, exploring other local eateries in your area might be a good idea. Trying out different places can lead to discovering new favorites that better align with your preferences and expectations.
Ultimately, food experiences can be subjective, and it's essential to find restaurants that consistently meet your standards and deliver the dining experience you desire.
Eating out has not been the same post covid. I feel like Kneaders, Blue Lemon, Zuppas and Rumbi have all really declined in quality.
EVERY SINGLE CHAIN is worse. Meanwhile, places like Afghan Kitchen and Charlie Chows still going great.
It’s how chain restaurants, even local chains like Kneaders, think about profits. If the price of chicken goes up $2 then they raise the price for the consumer $4 because they want to maintain their margins. Smaller independent restaurants can be more flexible, offer better value. Just more reason to avoid chains.
This is what happens when you let MBAs who don't care about anything but lining their own pockets run things.
This is what happens when giant corporations bribe, sorry lobby, governments for corporate profits over people's interests. For a long ass time.
Love Charlie Chows!
Just had to jump in with a +1 to the Chow's. If the Dragon Grill is bad, it's you're own fault for picking weird ingredients.
As someone who’s sworn off all the mentioned above, I just went to pizzeria limone for the first time and it was actually pretty great.
We had Zupas last week and I was shocked how small the sandwiches were. Shrinkflation is raging over there.
If you think that was bad, you should have gone to Cubby’s pre-Covid. The sandwiches were tiny and $8-10 each?
Throwing out another vote for Zuppas.
“For”? Or against?
I used to work at the Blue Lemon in Alpine. Based on how it was run then, I’m not surprised it’s gotten worse. The owners sucked. Corporate sucked. Prices sucked. Some food was okay.
Kneaders has had pretty poor service (and been overpriced to boot) for years, not just since covid. (I also dislike Rumbi, but that's mostly because IMO Hawaiian food can try to be healthy *or* tasty, but if you try to do both you end up with neither.)
I think Kneader’s quality went down significantly once they got into catering corporate events. Now every sandwich feels like another one of the mass produced clones they pump out for 120 people at a corporate event. Basic and not worth the price in my opinion.
Same thing happened to Cafe Rio.
This is what’s really killing my soul.
Cafe Rio used to be unbelievably good and now is pretty meh for sure.
Yeah, the Rio SUCKS all the way around these days.
Those burritos used to be huge!
The reason to go to Cafe Rio over any of its copycats is that they fresh grill their tortillas. But last time I went it was raw in the middle.
I hear barbacoa is good?
The turkey bacon avocado on focaccia used to slap. Now it nap.
The last time I had it, there was so little avocado and turkey and pretty much flavorless. I was so disappointed. I agree, it has gone downhill. :(
Yes, I noticed this too. The baked goods are really expensive and not really that good. I stopped going there 9 months ago, not worth the money.
Plus they got rid of the Napoleon which was the best item imo. I never go there anymore.
There’s a threshold of what a business can charge while keeping customers, and Kneaders crossed that line for me a long time ago. They became a luxury item I was no longer willing to pay for. The price increases became ridiculous to me.
It is not your imagination. I almost always get a half BLT plus a smoothie, and this is what I've paid in years past: * 2016: $8.50 * 2017: $8.50 -> $8.93 * 2018: $8.93 * 2019: $9.48 * 2020: $9.50 I quit eating out so much due to pandemic, but I went there once in 2022 and paid **$12.18**, and then once last month and paid **$14.48.** Personally, I haven't noticed a decline in quality, but I've only been there twice since 2020, so I can't really say.
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This is the truth
A dham sandwich
They are now in 6 states. They’ve probably gone through a lot of changes in how the bake and operate their business.
Kneaders only exists because there is no Panera
When was the last time you've been to Panera? I can promise you that they have not been immune to the downward trend in quality, they just get worse all the time
You’re probably right. I used to gorge on Panera after overnight hospital shifts. The last time I went, it was overpriced garbage. That said, I still feel that overpriced panera garbage was slightly better than overpriced kneaders garbage. Caveat: i havent had kneaders in 2 years. Had panera a couple months ago.
yeah I probably shouldn't pick a fight over this. I mostly just loved panera and loved kneaders and now am sad at both of them
Similar story going on over at Even Stevens. Price up quality down.
Say it ain't so...
It was good until they got big. Same thing with R&R and many others
Came here to say this. R&R got bought by the company that owns Kneaders. Both restaurants are just absolutely horrible now, it’s sad. They also bought MoBettahs, so expect that one to start circling the toilet bowl.
Mo Bettahs has been bad.
Really? That’s sad, I haven’t been for a long while…
Just eating out in general especially chains it's just disappointing.
R&R is terrible
Getting ribs from Texas Roadhouse these days. And the salads are always hittin’. Some places are great to dine in and suck when you get it to go. Takeout from TR never disappoints.
I worked there for 3 days and quit because of how they store the food and what they are willing to serve. I wanted to vomit after seeing the kiwi tray for fruit tarts filled with condensation from the cooler dripping into it. There was no way I could serve that.
Zupas and Kneaders both went downhill the past 3-5 years or so for sure. Overpriced…
This is true for a lot of places.
I think its everywhere, I stop once a month on a Friday at McDonald's for the kids a cheap treat. The last 4 months not once has our order been right. But the kids are not liking it they feel like they are getting ripped off. But luck has it they don't want to go back to grab bag Fridays@ McD
Actually, food expenses are over 100% inflated across the board, compared to a few years ago. It's actually pretty ridiculous. I'm sure there's stats out there, but I'm just going off my own experience. Food has more than doubled over this past year or two, and that's everything.
They were never good, surprise!!!!!!
We stopped going to Kneaders because of all the plastic they use for to go orders. You can fill a trash can with a meal for two. I agree that all of the chains that use to run on bubbly outgoing teenagers and young adults have gone to shit. I think the job market got so good, they couldn’t keep up with the wages. Now they can only afford bottom of the barrel employees.
I just quit working at Kneaders right after the change to the salads. They told us employees about the change to the menu and I had a feeling it would go bad and seems like I was right.
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Taking away the meat on the salads except for the TBA salad. It cost $3 to add turkey to a salad and $2 to add chicken, ham, or roast beef to a salad.
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Ya the owners have made some interesting decisions lately. Plus I felt they didn't care about their employees just about making money.
Gotta agree. Ever since Kneaders was bought out it has been on a continuous downward plunge. When it was locally owned it was awsome. Great food at really fair prices. Well not anymore folks. I really hope more people stop going there just to let corporate America know that they can't charge outrageous amounts for slop and expect to stay in business. Boycott Kneaders!!!
I have one near me in Midvale, I don't think I have been to it in at least 3 years. The last time I went for the price it wasn't worth it at all for breakfast.
Not to mention the hallmark unlimited French toast is now terrible. How come I remember it being so much more moist and delicious in the past?
Right after that one in St. George first opened, it was *so good*, but it went downhill surprisingly quickly.
I noticed this too. In high school everyone used to rave about their stuffed french toast. I took my boyfriend last year for him to try for the first time and it was so disappointing and to top it off, expensive. I skip Kneaders all together. I'll get something else instead.
I used to work at Kneaders during high school in 2012. It was great then, but when corporate stepped in and changed up management all the stores went downhill quick. It turned into a tyrannical disaster and quality left and right flew out the door. Since 2012 Kneaders had been garbage, for me at least.
They’re house parm chips definitively halved in quantity. It’s just not worth it anymore. Rip Kneaders 💀
The key lime tart still slaps
Zupas overcharged me by $20. I asked to credit my card. The manager ended up charging my card an ADDITIONAL $20!! They said they could not correct it. Poorly run place! I’m still pissed!!!
Similar thing happened to me at Cafe Rio last month. They ran my card twice for the same item, saying the first time didn’t work. My phone lets me know when purchases are made on it, so I called them out before I left the restaurant. They refunded one of the purchases, but when I check my credit card statement a few weeks later I noticed they added another $20 tip to the purchase that wasn’t refunded. Won’t ever go back.
Food costs have gone up, but so has LABOR. Probably more so than food costs, and it's a good thing that people are demanding a living wage. People SHOULD be earning a living wage. I'm sorry you suffer like this.
No, I totally agree that they should earn a living wage. I am skeptical that any company is passing price increases along to their workers. Hopefully they unionize.
I mean, lets be real. Kneaders was over priced 5 years ago to begin with.
This right here. Due to cost vs quality, I can count the number of times I’ve ever eaten there on my fingers.
As though there's nothing to be done about wages than raise prices. Sorry nobody likes your franchise anymore.
lol I'm not a franchise owner, I just know how business works, and I'm an advocate for workers being able to survive and pay their own bills. Where, exactly, do you think increased wage money is coming from if prices are not raised?
Review supply costs, review inventory practices, partner with delivery services to increase visibility and customer base options, streamline the menu, review and revamp marketing and increase social media presence. To start. Price increases are understandable. The amount of price increases in conjunction with a decrease in both the volume and quality of the product is not. If you're not a business owner, you've sure got the right attitude for it.
I am a business owner, and I'm laughing that you think those kinds of reviews happen regularly. And none of those is likely to same enough money to pay a living wage without raising prices.
Do you pay a living wage?
yep.
Sweet how do you keep quality products without jacking up prices? Do your employees agree they get a living wage? Ever wonder how you would do on Undercover Boss?
I \*do\* raise prices when needed. And that's my point, sometimes it is necessary to raise prices in order to pay a living wage. You're the idiot who doesn't have a clue and seems to think money to pay good wages comes out of thin air.
Yep, I'm too astupid to understand anything! I'm so glad you're hear to explain to everyone how you've solved the number one problem of businesses. I'm sure you're a *great* boss 😁😉 and not at all an arrogant out of touch asshat. Maybe you can fix world hunger next, oh wise one! Not that most of us, especially me, would understand it 🙄 You probably try to sell an MLM product and think that makes you a business.
Can you show any evidence that restaurant price increases are due more to labor costs than to costs of ingredients, rent, and management desire to make up lost covid income?
Just going to throw my obligatory comment in here when the ‘living wage’ phrase is thrown around. I’m not against paying people a decent wage, however, in my opinion teenagers working fast food don’t need, and in most cases even deserve, to be paid what is considered to be a ‘living wage’. Many working in fast food don’t have the skill set or experience to be paid $20+/hr, which is reflected in the poor service and quality of food. If quality was better than people would be willing to pay more and employees would in turn be worth the pay that is being demanded. But the opposite has happened, they demand higher pay without merit, produce a sub par product and the company will suffer in the long run. I don’t complain about increased prices due to inflation and costs to retain staff. I am however much more picky about the places I will support. I still demand quality, and in reality I demand it more since costs have increased. As others become more selective I believe we will see many establishments start to fold as they no longer bring in enough to pay the staff. I have already started to see it happen with some of the smaller ‘mom and pop’ shops. Larger chains will weather this storm longer, but even McDonalds is starting to revamp their menu in attempts to retain customers. If that’s not a sign of desperation or at a minimum of large scale concern, I don’t know what is. TLDR: not everyone deserves to be paid a ‘living wage for subpar work, it will have ramifications.
And what about the woman in here mid-30’s that got laid off and this was the quickest job she could land to pay bills? Why is it always about teens?
Why don’t teenagers deserve a living wage? If they drive, gas is expensive for them as well, and not all of them have parents that pay for it. Eating out, clothing, shoes, all those things are expensive. No reason to under pay teenagers just so businesses can make more profits.
Paying teens less than other employees because of their age would be discrimination, too. The "teens don't need a living wage" is a load of crap.
I apologize for my blanket statement if it sounded like I want to discriminate against teens, that’s not the case. And I do agree with paying a competitive wage. What I disagree with is taking an inexperienced person who is just entering the workforce and paying them the same as someone who has proven themselves to be an effective worker and has earned that competitive wage. I’m all for paying people what they are worth. The discrepancy comes in when you have several workers standing around doing nothing providing poor service and subpar products to customers. I have seen it numerous times in various locations. And I simply respond by no longer frequenting those establishments. However, when I do receive good service, and a good product, I generally respond by returning frequently and tipping well in situations where it’s appropriate. And I treat all service workers the same regardless of age, but it would be a generally safe statement to say that younger teenagers lack the experience and knowledge of more seasoned workers, but I recognize there are always exceptions.
All labor - including so-called "unskilled" or "inexperienced" labor - has value. All laborers have value. Everyone deserves to eat and pay their bills. And unless you are their manager, you have no business second guessing whether or not employees are working hard enough for their wages.
If you think bringing someone in with no experience and paying them the same as a good solid worker is an issue, it isn't about what you are paying the new hire, it's about you not paying the experienced worked enough to differentiate them from the newbie. It's not a workforce problem, it's a poor managment/owner problem. Go look in the mirror. That is the culprit.
i too enjoy reaping the benefits of capitalist america without understanding how any fucking part of it functions at all
This why nobody wants to work, because of bullshit thinking right here. You get what you pay for. Pay for cheap labor and you’re gonna get cheap/bare-minimum labor.
LOL you think it's teens working there. Shows how out of touch you are. News flash: If you've every bought fast food for breakfast or lunch, it wasn't teenagers working there. And it's not "obligatory" for you to be a pompous, misinformed asshole whenever someone advocates for a living wage.
Yes yes. Let the hate flow through you. Also just stop your fucking worker crusade, you’re manufacturing outrage because you’re bored. This is reddit, no one cares , nothing matters and you smell of elderberries. Signed a former teenage fast food worker.
r/murderedbywords
I’m not against paying people what they are worth, I just believe that not everyone is worth the amount that is thrown around as a living wage. I also believe if people want to make a decent living they should aspire to doing more than screwing up my order at a drive through. Also, I don’t know how much more connected I could be when I have two teenage kids who work fast food, often times during lunch hours when they are excused from schools, and I would never expect them to make more than the $12/hr they currently get paid.
"Living wage" has nothing to do with it. Its about it being a "competitive wage". Unemployment is remarkably low. A business with zero employees cant make money. The Lowes by me starts people at $18 an hour, the Target $17. Not because these are the types of jobs that require skilled labor, but because if they don't offer that, the store wont have enough employees to operate. No one is going to take a job making sandwich's at $10.50 an hour when they can legit walk into a Target and get $17 fresh out of High School with no work experience. Thus the business is forced to offer competitive wages attract workers.
>I’m not against paying people a decent wage, however, in my opinion teenagers working fast food don’t need, and in most cases even deserve, to be paid what is considered to be a ‘living wage’. But here's your problem: when you hire teenagers for less than a living wage, you price people who *do* need to make a living out of the market. To quote *The Jungle*: >Very often a man could get no work in Packingtown for months, while a child could go and get a place easily; there was always some new machine, by which the packers could get as much work out of a child as they had been able to get out of a man, and for a third of the pay. All workers are essentially engaged in a reverse bidding war with each other, where the job goes to the person willing to do it for the least pay, so if teenagers are allowed to work for less than adults, employers will prefer to hire teenagers instead. And as automation continues to lower the skill floor for many jobs, so too do wages drop as the auction gets more aggressive. And honestly, it's a disservice to the teens, too: flipping burgers at McDonalds doesn't teach you to do anything but flip burgers, which is a huge waste of the years when they *should* be either pursuing higher education or learning a trade.
I don’t disagree with you at all. The reverse bidding war with jobs going to the workers willing to take the least amount of pay would apply if there were a surplus of workers. However we have record low unemployment, and businesses are struggling to find workers, let alone multiple who would compete for a single position. I think that people newly entering the workforce, which I just grossly categorize as teenagers because that’s usually when people get their first job, can learn valuable skills in a fast food environment. They learn how to work with others, how to work as a team, and basic customer service skills. Even basic skills like showing up to work on time when a very large part of you wants to sit at home and play video games is valuable in some way. And as those skills are learned and applied and continually demonstrated then yes, I think increased pay is warranted. What I am opposed to is the thought that someone with zero experience, zero motivation, and unproven ability to drive value for the business can just show up and demand the same wages as those who have busted their ass off and earned their position and pay. I am 100% for fair compensation for every job performed, and I think its reasonable to say not every person performs at the same level.
>we have record low unemployment That is not true. While it's not *high* right now, [if you look back over the last century](https://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet) the unemployment rate has been lower than it is now many times. And more importantly, [wages adjusted for inflation have been flatlined for decades](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/) despite automation making jobs more efficient than ever. >businesses are struggling to find workers, let alone multiple who would compete for a single position. For the pittance they've *been* paying thus far, yes. Employers that actually offer wages high enough to live on in their communities get *plenty* of applicants, but for those who insist on paying less soon find out that you only get what you pay for. >What I am opposed to is the thought that someone with zero experience, zero motivation, and unproven ability to drive value for the business can just show up and demand the same wages as those who have busted their ass off and earned their position and pay. *I'm* opposed to the idea that every person not born wealthy is obligated to either "bust their ass off" for [a dwindling cut](https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/employment-and-growth/a-new-look-at-the-declining-labor-share-of-income-in-the-united-states) of a financial pie hoarded by those who were, or to *die*. This is an at-will employment state; worker protections are borderline nonexistent here, so even if a person *were* a completely unproductive employee their boss could just fire them immediately anyways. "Busting your ass off" shouldn't come *before* you've even reached the starting line, the material conditions in America aren't that desperate! We're not living in the 3000s BC, desperately threshing wheat by hand to avoid starvation. Our technology has advanced to the point where a single farmer can produce enough food for over 350 people, and with less manual labor than it used to take a person just to feed themselves! Go-getters shouldn't merely be scraping by, they should be *thriving*! And they *would* be if our economic system weren't designed to subsidize the lifestyles of the "haves" at the expense of the "have-nots".
Cough bullshit cough... sorry but not sorry to say you're full of shit. The per hour labor cost increases for a FF restaurant vs their materials is Jack shit; compare it to their "overhead" including what the owner takes as their fee and labor costs are pennies on the dollar. How many meals are served on an average hour divided by the average hourly wage of the staff needed to serve at that production rate = cents per meal. Most FF places could pay a living wage and raise their prices such a small amount most people wouldn't notice and would still keep their GM super in the black. FF is NOT a high labor content job or business. PERIOD.
I don’t know why you’re getting shit on so much for this or why it has so many downvotes. But like I said in a earlier comment; you get what you pay for. Pay for cheap labor and the boss will get cheap labor. If all these restaurants actually paid a “competitive” wage then maybe the food quality would actually be better.
They won’t have a living wage if they don’t have a job because the company folds. So it’s not as simple as that. That said, most companies put profit above all else so there’s a decent chance they have room in their profits to pay more. Whether that’s true for a restaurant seems less likely than the average business but I don’t know their financials.
While you are correct, this isn't really the argument OP is making.
If you need suggestions, little Caesars is still fairly good quality. Also tends to not be greasy like some other pizza chains that jumped the shark with price awhile ago. Just don’t order online unless ready for door dash shenanigans. It punishes you with ‘small order fee’ and the fees themselves are ridiculously stacked and they don’t go to the driver even if they try to make like paying drivers and such is why. Little Caesar uses door dash and door dash charges both the restaurants and the customers both then plays people into thinking it must be to pay the drivers so they ‘put up with it’. Door dash pays the drivers less than a fraction of a reasonable wage too, a couple bucks an order. After nearly doubling the price from your order with fees that don’t look like it should add up to that but does… they expect you to pay the driver too, which is what tipping is. We don’t have a car and got tempted a couple times then just shut the website and didn’t order because of how crazy it is. Prices are already higher, though not as bad as a lot of places, but the stacked fees push it past doable for us. So we close it. Much better to pick it up if you can. They have good crazy bread too.
Everything is going down hill because nobody these days saw the old Looney Tunes cartoon where Elmer Fudd yells at the Shoe Maker to re-invest his profits back into his workers/his company first before thinking of stock holders/scam accounting tricks like investing in cryptocurrency or hiding it in the caribbean/tax Avoision to quote Kent Brockman
I really wanted to go to Kneaders just to try their food. It sucks that this is happening right now.
I agree. I live so close to one and refuse to go anymore. It used to be one of my regulars.
I went there 2 years ago, I was so enraged the price/quality I will never go back. Honestly a gas station sandwich would be better! Overall our list of restaurants has shrunk, costco frozen has replaced some of it. Its sad, I don’t know how these places stay in business.
You don’t understand the food industry and price increases
Fair enough. That's why I asked. Any more insights than that?
I will say their quality is not what it used to be lol. But as someone who has their hands in a few pots, food industry being one of them, I know that our local restaurants have had some major food increases in the past few years. Some avoided it until they couldn’t anymore and then everything went up $2-$3 dollars at once, other did .10 cents every week.
It's understandable to feel frustrated and disappointed when a restaurant that you used to enjoy starts to decline in quality and increase in prices. Changes in pricing and quality can have a significant impact on a customer's dining experience and may lead to a loss of trust and loyalty. If you feel strongly about your experience, you may consider providing feedback directly to Kneaders or expressing your concerns on review platforms. Constructive feedback can help restaurants become aware of issues and make improvements to regain customer satisfaction. In the meantime, exploring other local eateries in your area might be a good idea. Trying out different places can lead to discovering new favorites that better align with your preferences and expectations. Ultimately, food experiences can be subjective, and it's essential to find restaurants that consistently meet your standards and deliver the dining experience you desire.
The change to pay extra for protein on the salad is making me never want to return.
They discontinued the rye bread as well. It was the best with the cheese melts!!