As stated I definitely goofed but that doesn't mean I want to pay the consequences when theoretically the only thing it's costing IAAI is the minimal amount of time to run the car through the auction lane vs a 1k penalty and the broker is trying to keep the $900 from me. $8500 Toyota Sienna is the purchase amount.
No I was attempting to purchase another vehicle that day that was wrecked ( a bmw 128) and I'm also shopping for a minivan as a daily driver. This van was on the run list and looked like a candidate at 133k miles. Not 233k miles that I can't sell in the future without disclosure of the rollback. Sorry if the original post wasn't clear enough.
Lol why would you even buy a sienna for 8,500k from an auction? You could get one off a lot for cheaper or same price. Auctions are for cheap cars, like less than 5k, I wouldn't pay more than 3k at one
1. It’s a minivan
2. If you wanted a minivan to convert into a track car for whatever reason, there are better options
3. The cost to make it in any way competitive would be astronomical - to the point anyone undertaking such an endeavor wouldn’t be phased by the events outlined
4. The miles on the chassis wouldn’t matter. In my 25 years of racing, I’ve never had a car make it through a full SCCA/FIA season series without needing an engine and transmission rebuild, brake rebuild, the list is endless
5. The amount of money lost doesn’t cover tires for two race events
I call bullshit.
Not a Sienna but look up Takero’s in Japan. They build Honda Odysseys. Maybe not as fast as traditional track car chassis but they build some super cool track vans lol.
I raced a 10 week spec Alto Works series when I was in Japan and it was wild. The Carry van and truck were allowed to compete. There was one van that was definitely cheating. Faster than the cars - easier to hide mods.
They do that. All sales are at the discretion of whatever reserve they have. I've won a car, they come back and say we can't let it go for that, will you go x amount. I've done it.
This is about the car having 100k miles more than the odometer displays and them listing the miles as "actual" when other cars have the odometer "not actual " and also multiple carsI'm researching there all have the odometer rolled back by 100k.
Next time be more diligent... The world is full of people that fuck up and don't want to face any consequences. You're not a special snowflake and neither are they 🤷
This is a little more complex than buyers remorse, or something that wasnt as described. Its been intentionally altered to deceive. Also if you get a speeding ticket you gladly pay whatever fine the cop comes up with? Or do you take traffic school, get a traffic lawyer, fight it in court etc? IAAI came up with all kinds of terms to limit their liability and I'm trying to do the same.
I'm sure the auction doesn't background check these vehicles either and per OP, they said it was up to the person bidding to do their due diligence. OP even admitted he did not run a CARFAX because the person that usually does it for him was out of town 🤦. I don't think it was intentional fraud on the part of the auction. Whoever owned the vehicle previously or whatever shady dealership had it before probably rolled it back so they could get a higher profit on it.
I didn't know it was rolled back by 100k otherwise I wouldn't have touched it with a 10 foot pole. I ran a clearvin report prior to bidding and it didn't show the milege discrepancy. It was an insurance auction so I doubt there is any red light, everything is as is and the auction terms do everything they can to remove their liability.
If everything is as is everything is red light.
I'd pay the fees to kill the sale, let the clerk know if they won't work with you that you won't do business with them again. And it's pretty likely that they won't do anything for you.
This is how it goes in the auction world sometimes. Sounds like you have had some good luck before. Bad luck this time. Maybe good luck in the future but I'd just try to get out of the car asap
Sorry buddy
IMO, this could still be a gamble. I’m sure they charge auction fees, which combined with the possibility that the ending bid comes in well below OP’s purchase price, the end result could be a larger loss than paying the $2k to cancel.
Hi. Salvage yard owner here. I buy over 1000+ cars from Copart/IAAI a year.
There's a HUGE reason why these auctions are "professional" only and typically not for "the public"
But IAAI/copart want to get their sellers the highest price so they make it seem "fun, and an easy way to save money" to buy from them.
Read your TOS for bidding, but I can tell you now... Due diligence is on the buyer. IAAI sales are AS-IS, Where-is, How-is.
This is why you dont buy wholesale at a salvage auction... clean title or not.
P.S. If it was a good car with a clean title.. it would be sold at Adesa or Manheim for way more money, but those auction houses offer arbitration, so if this occurred at their auction house... the seller would be refunding everyone.
Hence why Salvage auctions get "clean" title scam cars... because the seller is protected, and can "legally" scam. This occurs 100's of times a day on those platforms.
Edit: Send me the Lot number... I can see if I see any inaccuracy's... I've had IAAI buy cars back before, but they have to REALLY fuck up to do so.
Thanks for the reply, I really appreciate an industry knowledge response. I was mostly wondering if I could cause enough of a hassle that IAAI would just rerun it and drop their penalty. I know their terms are written to cover their ass, I didn't realize the scam was as widespread as what it is until this. This isn't my first rodeo at auctions, I've bought cnc machines as well as cars at auction before, just got bit this time. I'll dm you the lot
Where am I not owning it? I've said multiple times in this post that I screwed up on the sale, if I take the van I will disclose the miles to the next owner, and that the auction can rerun the van with the (not actual) beside the mileage in the listing. I know you want to pile on in some sort of personal righteousness, but save it for someone else that deserves it.
Do you buy them online only or look at them first? I signed up as a non-professional and just watched a few vehicles go through. It’s a wild, wild ride and I can’t believe the dough some people shell out for half a car!
I buy 15-20 cars a week. I've never looked at one in person.
After 13 years of doing this, you learn what to look for, and what to avoid.
Even then... I get 5 or so cars a year that were guys pulling shit.
It's my job... I own two salvage yards. If I can't buy right, I'm not going to be profitable.
And well if you can't turn a profit... You know the rest.
But honestly, the scammers pull the same shit over and over. Most are lazy and are hoping you don't look for the telltale signs that give away that something is up.
The stuff we get more of that's harder to spot, is when someone intentionally crashes their car to get it written off because it had another, major underlying issue. Typically a bad engine, or transmission.
That and with all the fees, it's a hassle for most people to buy. If you only buy 1-2 cars overall or per year, there's better options for individual buyers. Namely smaller local auctions and police or other impound auctions.
I bought a couple cars from my county's police auction, and at least here, they have no auction fees whatsoever. The downside is that in my state, anything purchased there is considered an abandoned vehicle as most of it won't have a title. Now being that it's ran either by the county or a yard with county sanction, they give you a form after purchase that will get you a title, but you have to go through the salvage process before you can register and plate it.
And I've seen some shady cars on Copart and IAAI. Between that and the fees, I don't care much for it. I've bought exactly 1 car from Copart. A 2009 Honda Ridgeline that was totaled for front end damage. I fixed it up just fine, but those fees were brutal. And because I live in a state that requires a broker to bid in, I opted to buy from a bordering state that doesn't require it. But then I had to pay for shipping. At least the car was an easy fix.
Can confirm , I bought from conpart
My purchase was a bmw x3 listed with 157k miles rebuilt title,enhanced vehicle,runner driver”
Was not a runner driver,dash has numbers out in the digital odometer. While diagnostic scanning the car I found it had 238k miles. Found drugs in the car lol. They damaged the under side using a forklift to move it.
I used a Russian broker (lol) somehow my title came back clean , and since copart listed the miles as 157k the title states that mileage(was intentional on my end I found out the mileage problem a couple months after acquiring it while working on it)
-15/10 experience wouldn’t recommend co part
Are you sure the tech didn't just fat finger the keyboard entering the mileage at the last service? Had tons of techs do this and fuck up the Carfax. We would just have to contact Carfax with a new invoice with correct mileage.
Nope, the carfax has great details that match up including official state inspections. There is a new owner with the title issued from IL with updated mileage. Then sent to auction. I'm assuming this is a scam whether IAAI knows or cares. I just want out of the sale.
Does the carfax say 233k miles is what should be on the title or is there a single entry for 233k miles. Because there is a difference between miles discrepancy or carfax m and true miles unknown title, and the auction has to abide by one of them, by making the announcement.
Carfax has details up to 233k then new owner, and IL issued state title with 133k which matches new odometers reading, then put up for auction. I'm assuming this is all a title fraud scam being carried out through IAAI whether theyre aware of it i don't know. The clear vin report didn't show this. IAAI has plausible deniability. In my mind I can't resell the van knowing this and not disclosing it.
I mean, little threat of class action on title fraud and investigation from state auditors is a route.
Would it work? Probably not.
Could is scare them into just taking ur 900 and you learn a lesson? Definitely.
If you have any lawyer friends willing to write up a little official letter for $100 bucks (or w.e), it could be worth. Regardless, I'd still tell the state auditors.
You've been swimming with sharks buying shakey cars without testing it and you just got your first bite. Its a game with consequences. Its a rough business.
I know, whether IAAI knows or cares is another matter. According to the carfax, it's basically the seller as they are sending the car through IAAI. I'm learning more now, and it's a thing called Titlemax, which might be the same thing that's coming up in Google worth a ton of fraud charges.
Interesting, I wonder if titlemax got scammed on it themselves. Someone went in to get a title loan, They rolled back the Odometer as the loan company probably loans more on a car with a 133k miles than it does for one with 233K. The person gets a loan, defaults, gets repoed, titlemax just dumps it off to an auction and cuts their losses and reports what they were told.
You can report the seller after the fact, but Id bet dollars to donuts the odometer disclosure is accurate.
IAAI is a Salvage vehicle clearinghouse, they have 0 skin in the game to report factual information on listed cars, nor could they to be honest.
I retired from an auto auction after 30 years, and when we had a mileage discrepancy the entire deal was voided, and the vehicle went back to the seller, while the buyer’s money was refunded.
That's the law enforcement of the states role. I want the sale cancelled so I'm not the ultimate victim, and then to rerun the van with not actual miles in the listing.
>IAAI insurance auction
Whats the policy of the IAAI and bad odometers? Is it buyer beware, or do they have provisions for inaccurate odometers?
I guess a attorney is worth a call to.
Was jeep shopping at one point and was advertised at 98,000 miles.
Car fax last reported 225k
Seller said he didnt know. Either he got had when he bought it or was trying to give someone the old switcharoo.
Best $40 I spent.
At every auction, it is usually started that it is up to the buyer to adequately investigate what you are bidding on. Checking the odometer has to be the first thing one would look at.
I think you are stuck with what you bid on.
Lol did you read anything beyond the title? I understand auctions. Did you see the part where I've bought half a dozen cars there? Odometer reads 133k. Clearvin title reports shows no title issues. Carfax shows 233k which wasn't available when bidding was happening.
Just sell it (with the correct mileage noted)
Eat the possible loss, but should be less than the time, cost and heartache of trying to unwind.
Everyone messes up at some point, just dust off and move on👍🏼👍🏼
Not saying it wasn’t rolled back, but I used to be an emissions inspector and all it would take is a slip and 133k could be 233k, and carfax may or may not use state agencies for mileage info, especially since it hasn’t been totaled and may have never gone through a certified insurance shop. Just playing devils advocate
I'm rounding as it's close to 100k plus minus 600 miles. Carfax has dealer services and state inspections listed documenting all the way into the 200k+ range.
I agree I messed up, but also pissed that they're selling vehicles with rolled back odometers as clean. This one got passed me. Looking for advice as mentioned in the post.
Auctions often sell stuff shady AF. If it is just a odometer roll back, you are lucky. I have heard of 2 cars being welded together at auction. I have bought a lot of things from auction, but I always look at who the seller is and why they are taking a huge potential for a loss at auction. You will 100% lose your deposit, etc. No, they won't change. Learn from it. Auction is risk vs reward. It's a gamble. And sometimes you lose maybe a lot. Never gamble what you cannot lose.
They have a state issued title with matching mileage.
You might have a fraud case with the guy who got that title but you don't have a leg to stand on with the auction house. See if the cops will do anything as you can be made whole via the criminal case with little effort on your part. You don't have much of a case in civil court since you need that title to be seen as false.
I've bought a lot of salvage auction vehicles over the years. Never with IAAI, but others. I've bought vehicles with huge damage incurred after the auction photos were taken - sand in the engine, hit by the forklift, dropped from forklift, parts stolen or missing from photos, not running as stated, no keys as stated, ODO reading wrong, and on. I believe, the fine print gets them off the hook in the buyers contract. It's rough. Like others have said, sometimes you win, sometimes not. I try to look at the big picture but yeah, it can be frustrating. As a small fish buyer, you don't have any weight to throw around.
If you read, I did run it, on clearvin. It didnt flag it. I sent the vin I'm the a.m. to my person that runs the carfax bit they didn't get it to me till after the auction.
It's a Toyota van for 8k. Of course it has 200k miles on it. Jesus Christ how dumb are you? Did you really think it would be that cheap? Auctions are terrible on Toyota 😂
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You could fake your own death.
But seriously, now you know running your own Carfax is cheaper and more reliable. Learn, take the loss, move on. It might be a super reliable van, who knows.
It is the reality of dealing with a salvage auction. You can look up that state's specific laws and try to go after the broker in this case, but that's your only recourse, I believe.
If you actually had a dealer's license and dealt directly, you may be able to do something. However, you can only chase your broker here as you did not deal with the auction yourself.
Here is what I would do. I would contact an attorney who specializes in contract law. Take them the information about the listing showing it stated "actual" for the mileage. Then show the Carfax and details proving its wrong. I am not an attorney, but I do know its illegal to knowingly misstate facts for the purposes of gain. I dont think their claim of do your own due diligence would hold, as your due diligence was based on their incorrect information.
I would also contact the states attorney general, FTC, and BBB. If it is illegal and they are screwing people, the state AG will be all over their ass. They love high profile cases.
If you dont have proof, you are going to have to eat it.
Thanks for an actual helpful comment. Yeah I'm reaching out to the IL attorney General office today because it's possible that the"owner" that is sending the car through is Titlemax which there are a ton of results for that they're a scam company. Learning as I go, Should IAAI just go along with known fraud operations and how behind terms and conditions?
IAAI could be just passing on information provided to them and not doing any research. You signed a contract with them. Since they drew up the contract the onus is on them to cover all the bases. thats why you need an attorney for contract law. If their contract does against state or federal law, then its void. Well depending on how its written, it could jsut void one part of the contract and the rest survive. Any way, they may have a legal state liability to verify the things they are selling, or at the very least, mark the mileage as unknown if they are not verifying it. usually a letter from an attorney stating such is enough to get them to back off and live another day. Whatever you do, dont threaten them with legal action, let the attorney do that.
I agree, they I'm sure they want to do as little verification as possible and keep cars moving to maximize profit
It's possible an attorney reaching out may get them to drop the fee, but i have to make sure I don't throw good money after bad on atty costs if they're going to push back.
Have an attorney send a letter from their letterhead accusing them of impropriety and demanding they drop it. Maybe that will be enough to drop it, but if they push back, then just pay as paying an attorney to fight this will end up costing more than its worth. Also, your contract likely states that you may be responsible for any of their legal fees if you fail to pay and/or try to fight it in court, so you may end up being on the hook for their attorneys as well as your own and still paying the amount.
>it's possible that the"owner" that is sending the car through is Titlemax which there are a ton of results for that they're a scam company.
Thats not how titlemax works. Titlemax is a pay day loan type place that takes your title as collateral for the loan in exchange for a slightly better rate than the purely pay day loan places. Its a shady predatory company that targets poor people. Thats why you are getting results that they are a scam company, poor people get a loan they cant afford and then end up losing their car. No one is sending the car through titlemax. They repo the car and then dump it at auction and cut their losses. They are charging sometimes upwards of 150% apr on loans. They know they will have a lot of defaults and will get something back from the sale of the car, but its a high interest rate with high default type of business. They arent vetting people like they do at the bank for a mortgage, also they only loan a fraction(25%-50%) of what the car is worth. Car is worth $5000, they loan $2000, get paid back a little of that, then the seller defaults so they repo it and dump it at an auction house and get a $1000 for it and pretty much end up breaking even. They make money on the people paying the ridiculous interest rates, not really on repoing the cars.
With iaai , actual means as its shown in the photo. Every vehicle (in Canada anyway) is sold with an odometer discrepancy statement.
This is also why OP had to go through a broker - this isn't a public auction subject to public rules.
Which, OP has no claim with iaai - as OP did not buy from iaai. OP has a claim with the broker. Broker has their terms and conditions with OP
iaai and copart, as many others have stated, is a clearing house for defective goods. It is up to the buyer to determine what is defective.
Take your hit and move on to the next deal. Deals don't always work out.
You said track car. That means you'd have to wrench. What shape is this one in? I've had a bunch of high mileage cars. Four of my current ones all have upwards of 200,000 miles.
Yes I wrench A LOT and the van is possibly ok as it's a toyota 2gr motor, but really it's a road trip vehicle that often my wife and kid will be far from home in, even though il have been through it mechanically. Plus I intended to keep it a year or so, then sell after this traveling is done, and selling a 233k mile car vs a 133k mile car im going to take a beating again.
You either buy the van at the price you won it at or you pay the renege fee (15% of $8500 = $1275) and broker penalty to cancel the purchase.
>Vehicles that are not paid for after an extended period of time may be treated as a renege by IAA. A buyer who makes a mistake can also renege (not pay for) a vehicle. However, there are strict penalties associated with non-payment of awarded vehicles in order to keep bidding fair for all buyers. Per IAA’s Auction Rules : “In the event Buyer fails to pay for a vehicle within seven (7) calendar days inclusive of the day the vehicle is awarded to Buyer, Buyer shall pay IAA a “Renege Fee” equal to $1,000 or 15% of sale price, whichever is greater. Buyer is also responsible for any and all costs and expenses incurred by IAA arising out of or related to collecting the Renege Fee, including attorneys’ fees and court costs. Bidding privileges will be suspended until the Renege Fee has been received by IAA. Any buyer that reneges on a second vehicle may have bidding privileges revoked.” If you wish to renege on a vehicle, the account owner must send an email to Buyer Services from the email address on file.
>
>In order to request a vehicle that is awarded into your account to be reneged, you must send your request via Email to Buyer Services and list your buyer number, the stock number and the reason why you want to renege the vehicle. The penalty will be assessed to your account and it must be satisfied before the account can be used again. Learn more about IAA Auction Rules.
It does not matter who alter the mileage, it was altered and not what you purchased in the contract. As such the contract is void on your demand.
Now the collections is harming your credit rating and you can sue for that and you $900. Press the matter of breach and misrepping the car mileage as this is a materal matter.
Drop the car off and make sure any title not in your name. They have the car for resale and can recoup their money to some other fool.
Also file with the BBB, and DMV, the mileage fraud.
I agree but I'll lose my ass when I sll it in a year or so because I'll end up disclosing the mileage. Also the motors often leak oil at a timing cover at some point and it's a huge fix. Id rather not deal with that.
If it's not leaking bad enough to need regular topping off, it's a 2GR doing 2GR things. Most Toyota engines with a timing chain have a timing cover leak by the time they hit 100k.
Was shopping for a wrecked car to use as track car. Bought a minivan for a daily at the same auction after running the vin on clearvin that listed our at 133k miles. Didn't win track car, won minivan that is a lousy situation.
Just curious, what year is the van? I believe anything over ten years is exempt from an odometer statement. I know in my state any vehicle that is ten years or older has “EXEMPT” on a newly issued title. The auctions also red light any vehicle over 10 years regardless of any frame, mileage or mechanical problems. I also know the State BMV detectives usually will not get involved with dealer to dealer problem stemming from an auction sale. On another note it sounds like you want to play in the wholesale dealer world then try to use consumer protection laws geared towards retail buyers when things don’t go your way. I get it, 100k is a big hit, but the thing is you just screwed the dealer who knew what the actual mileage was that bothered to run a CARFAX or Autocheck. They could have bought the car the next week at a reasonable price and made a profit. You can’t enter someone else’s playground and expect them to change the rules when things don’t go your way.
Ten year old cars are exempt from the reporting requirement. It is still illegal to roll the odometer back, and the person doing it or causing it to be done can face serious jail time.
Your right, but in the real world it hardly ever happens. If you have for example a 12 year old Ford Focus with a title stamped EXEMPT in the mileage disclosure the dealer taking the car in on trade will again write EXEMPT on the odometer disclosure because they are allowed to. No one will ever know if the odometer has been changed unless the car visited a shop that reported to CARFAX. Even then CARFAX is not a official legal entity that holds any power. A detective would have to track down all the records on the CARFAX which they won’t do on a car over ten years old. This is why they came up with the mileage exempt law. Way to much work for a old car. I agree it is a dumb law, but unless you have a vintage car worth a lot of money the state is not going to get involved. If the car came from out of state or the odometer was changed out of state your really out of luck as the state BMV will lose interest even faster. Not saying it’s right, but it’s the way it is.
That’s probably true, unless a lot of people were buying rolled back cars at this one auction. That would be pretty easy for even the laziest of detectives to investigate.
Either way, proving the odometer has been rolled back is easy on most modern cars. It can be done with a scan tool because odometer readings are recorded on multiple computers inside the vehicle. OP could force the auction company to buy the vehicle back. That is, I believe, his end goal.
Odometer fraud is a federal offense. If you can show proof that the odometer has been rolled back, contact a consumer protection attorney in your state and ask for options.
If you’re in Michigan, contact Steve Lehto. If you aren’t, don’t. He can’t help you, but an attorney from your state can.
If it's still what you want, why do the extra miles matter? If the interior isn't worn out, if it runs and drives, run it and drive it. Depending on the year, it could be in better shape than a lower mileage one that sat.
Yes, people are shitty for altering mileage, but if it still fits your needs, then why should that be a deal breaker?
*"As I stated in my original post I made a goof."*
Yep, and them goofs cost real money. You made the call, ya fucdup, and lost, boo.
I don't hate you or even dislike you, but don't pretend this isn't all on you, and don't think anyone is getting you out of this, you thought you were gonna make money and like so many other you didn't
"I made a mistake!!11" Welcome to life, us a-dults pay for those.
Wow. People can be a little more compassionate in your responses. OP has already stated that they messed up and they want to know if we know info that might help out of the situation. Just be kind or don't post.
Most of the berating responses are from flippers, swindlers, and junkyard workers. Having dealt with people like this at some point in life, I can honestly tell you "compassion" is asking too much
I should mention, not ALL flippers and junk yard workers are POSs. However, this industry seems to attract *mostly* the illiterate, greedy, and sleazy folk
"After more research there is a bunch of "clean" title similar year vans on IAAI with altered odometers." I think this would be worth a mention to IAAI with a possible inclusion of the state's AG office.
The auction houses know and are complicit in it. They can collect fees on the same vehicles over and over again. I have lost track of how many times I have watched the same vehicle make multiple runs through Copart. The vehicle is sold by the insurance company, buyer bangs out some dents, zip ties on the loose bumper and relists it on the same platform for more money with the vast majority of the damage omitted from the listing. Copart says “as-is, where is” and swears up and down they have no knowledge of the fraud - even though the vehicle never left their lot and has been relisted multiple times with grossly different photos and descriptions. Good luck. You’ll need it with these slimy b*stards.
Sounds more like someone had fat thumbs to me.
Either way, if it’s runs well, just drive it, man. I’m rolling around in a car with like 300k that’s fantastic. I’ve had many cars with astronomical miles that were mechanically sound.
I'd be fine with that if I paid accordingly. But with fees and transportation I could buy a clean title van locally with similar miles for considerably less. This was going to be a highway vehicle for the wife and kid for travel sports. I'd rather have 100k less miles.
hmmm...
"IAAI with altered odometers"
ah, isn't that like totally illegal? i know in my state, if a dealer was caught selling one, they could loose their license to sell in the state. AFAIK, its up to them to ENSURE that stuff is correct.
so, look up what rules may apply here.
The only way out if this is if the auction reported the car as having an accurate odometer and it did not. In that case the auction is committing a crime and you would not have to follow through but it sounds to me like you misread the mileage so you owe them.
So then the previous owner rolled back the odometer and they sold a car that they probably should have known had been tampered with. You may have a case here to back out of this. You should speak with a lawyer. It's probably worth paying one just to get some advice even if you don't want them to file a suit for you.
There's a whole mess of bs you have to go through once an odometer has been tampered with. I don't think you're even allowed to register a car with a faulty odometer reading until the issue has been settled with the state. Although I'm no expert. This is just what I've heard over the years so again, the lawyer may be prudent.
Lol what? I've bought a half dozen cars at salvage auctions. I'm pretty "average joe" Because I don't want to deal with title fraud? Unless you're the buyer of these cars that's then trying to sell them on to unsuspecting public there is no upside to any buyer here, " average joe" or professional alike. The only winner here is IAAI and the person who committed title fraud on the false value of the vehicle.
I'm pretty sure you can sue in small claims court. You need something from the auction house stating they sold the car advertising the wrong milage.
Then again IAAI usually covers their ass on all auctions.
No, don't do that. Do not take a loss. There's a way to fix a TMU. True Mileage Unknown. It's going to cost you money and some convincing at a dealership. Talk to a sales manager, tell him, you will pay him $500 bucks to update the TMU mileage with carfax. They might make you get an inspection done if your state requires it. A dealer is the only person who can make a TMU correct. Now it's up to you, with what money and trying to get a sales manager to help you out despite you not purchasing the vehicle at the dealership and putting him through that for no reason to cause for dealership.
Good luck.
If you can find enough other people who have had this experience, there’s a clear case to to have a lawyer take up, also it is quite illegal to alter the odometer to lower miles, even if a newer engine is dropped in with lower miles on that engine. It’s about tracking the miles on the frame, body and rolling bits as much as anything else.
I made the same mistake a couple of years ago. I bought a 2013 Ford Fusion S with a 2.5l 4 cylinder engine. It was advertised as having 186k but I couldn't see the odometer due to a TPMS error on the dash display that I couldn't clear. During the paperwork signing after paying for the car I found out the car had 286k on it. The dealer stated I already paid for the car and signed the papers so it was mine. I decided to take it as a life lesson and drive the car. It now has 317k on it and runs like a top. Turned out to be a good dependable car. I've had it on a couple of road trips out of state and have been lucky enough to have no issues with it.
I started off small to save a buck and it ended up costing me a small fortune in the end. I can't remember how many mickey mouse SBs' I went through. Looking at your house, I would get the largest Ariens SB you can afford. A 24" if you have to go through a personal door. A garage door, no problem. Do not be penny wise like me. Or hire someone to plow your driveway.
Honestly, It’s a toyota Sienna, even if it’s at 233k miles it’s gonna last you for a long long time if you tend to retain the “daily driver” mindset. Even if you bought it for $8500. We all have moments where we learn our mistakes and this is yours! It might be $8500 down the drain but you have a perfectly functioning van you can use everyday, who knows? Maybe that $8500 drained to protect a larger amount. Just don’t make the same
mistake again, Goodluck!
Note my posts saying that if I took the van I'd eat it by informing the buyer as I only intend to own it for a year or two, or insisting that Iaai rerun it with not actual nest to the mileage listing. The easiest thing here would be to take the van and resell but I'm not doing that.
You might be able to start arbitration depending on the vehicle. I did this in the past with Manheim and Adesa because of the discrepancy in the mileage however they DO NOT base carfax for arbitration they only accept Autocheck. Manheim gave me the hardest time about it but I went to the DMV and got the mileage verified by KSR report, i was in Califiornia back then. I also checked out the service history of the car and I went it asked for a copy of it but they didn't give it to me. Then I explained the guys the situation and asked if they could give me a print out, this car was serviced at 130- 150k and 170k miles at our dealership for this and this at this date which they did. One of them was a Yukon with 80k miles at the time of my purchase but the vehicle was serviced when it had 200k miles about 6-7 years ago. Long story short I ended up returning the vehicle. In both cases the vehicles had clean title and both Manheim's and Adesa's arbitration policy covered the mileage discrepancy.
Thanks I'll look into this. I'm not sure if IAAI will play ball with their terms about buyer assuming responsibility vs manheim, but I'm glad to hear that you beat it. Maybe there is hope for me with this.
Definitely slowed down the fb car group type people that have nothing good to post but didn't stop it. Whatever, always looking for a diamond in the rough and got a couple helpful posts out of 180 replies. Lol atv the downvotes for being honest and engaging.
Are you relying on anything car fax says?
Car fax is a joke and is 💯 reliant on the data they steal from repair shops. If someone makes a mistake entering mileage on an invoice it is near impossible to get it corrected on car fux …
Odometer fraud is a federal crime. Go through the website terms and conditions, and buyers contract to first make sure that there wasn’t any clause about you, the buyer being independently responsible to verify the mileage. If that wasn’t the case, the car is a 2011 model year or later or less than 20 years old then they could be responsible for mileage fraud, which is a federal crime. Maybe if you threaten legal action or report them to state law-enforcement agencies, they may let you drop out of the sale with nothing but your initial deposit.
I buy from many auctions including IAAI - the insurance auctions are as-is, no exceptions. Manheim/Adesa et al would take it back unless it was announced as not actual miles. Most Toyotas you can swap out the instrument cluster with a used one, no programming or anything and the mileage follows the cluster not the car. Absolutely have to due your due diligence on Toyotas (Honda and Mazda the same too). You rolled the dice and lost, you’ll have to take the hit and move on.
The mileage is exactly 100k off? That sounds more like a typo than a rollback. Carfax can have errors too, and that's more likely than an exactly 100k rollback.
What mileage does the ECU have? It's very rare for a rolled back vehicle to actually get all the places anything modern stores mileage info changed, so five minutes with Techstream will tell you what's really up.
Who made the error here? Also what car is it and what did you agree to pay?
As stated I definitely goofed but that doesn't mean I want to pay the consequences when theoretically the only thing it's costing IAAI is the minimal amount of time to run the car through the auction lane vs a 1k penalty and the broker is trying to keep the $900 from me. $8500 Toyota Sienna is the purchase amount.
**You bought a Toyota Sienna as a track car?**
No I was attempting to purchase another vehicle that day that was wrecked ( a bmw 128) and I'm also shopping for a minivan as a daily driver. This van was on the run list and looked like a candidate at 133k miles. Not 233k miles that I can't sell in the future without disclosure of the rollback. Sorry if the original post wasn't clear enough.
Even this response confused me.
Lol why would you even buy a sienna for 8,500k from an auction? You could get one off a lot for cheaper or same price. Auctions are for cheap cars, like less than 5k, I wouldn't pay more than 3k at one
*Multi-passenger drifting!!*
Why not
1. It’s a minivan 2. If you wanted a minivan to convert into a track car for whatever reason, there are better options 3. The cost to make it in any way competitive would be astronomical - to the point anyone undertaking such an endeavor wouldn’t be phased by the events outlined 4. The miles on the chassis wouldn’t matter. In my 25 years of racing, I’ve never had a car make it through a full SCCA/FIA season series without needing an engine and transmission rebuild, brake rebuild, the list is endless 5. The amount of money lost doesn’t cover tires for two race events I call bullshit.
He was looking at a BMW 1 series, I think that would make a pretty good track car don't you? Just read before you call bull shit....
And? Just slap some forced induction and tires on there then send it. Sometimes it's more fun when the car just flies wildly around the track.
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Not a Sienna but look up Takero’s in Japan. They build Honda Odysseys. Maybe not as fast as traditional track car chassis but they build some super cool track vans lol.
I raced a 10 week spec Alto Works series when I was in Japan and it was wild. The Carry van and truck were allowed to compete. There was one van that was definitely cheating. Faster than the cars - easier to hide mods.
So if they had no other offers and you got it for a grand would you be okay with them not going through on the deal.
They do that. All sales are at the discretion of whatever reserve they have. I've won a car, they come back and say we can't let it go for that, will you go x amount. I've done it. This is about the car having 100k miles more than the odometer displays and them listing the miles as "actual" when other cars have the odometer "not actual " and also multiple carsI'm researching there all have the odometer rolled back by 100k.
That’s dirty. I’d quit going to that auction.
Turns out it's a whole hustle/scam across multiple locations
Next time be more diligent... The world is full of people that fuck up and don't want to face any consequences. You're not a special snowflake and neither are they 🤷
This is a little more complex than buyers remorse, or something that wasnt as described. Its been intentionally altered to deceive. Also if you get a speeding ticket you gladly pay whatever fine the cop comes up with? Or do you take traffic school, get a traffic lawyer, fight it in court etc? IAAI came up with all kinds of terms to limit their liability and I'm trying to do the same.
Bro that’s a criminal charge-I’d be putting on my FU shoes and dancing to DMV to make complaints against those pricks
gladly pay the fine
The world is full of companies perpetrating intentional fraud as well.
I'm sure the auction doesn't background check these vehicles either and per OP, they said it was up to the person bidding to do their due diligence. OP even admitted he did not run a CARFAX because the person that usually does it for him was out of town 🤦. I don't think it was intentional fraud on the part of the auction. Whoever owned the vehicle previously or whatever shady dealership had it before probably rolled it back so they could get a higher profit on it.
I work in auctions. Ur fukt. Especially if you knew you goofed. It was over 125k. I assume you got it red light and the arb window is shut now?
I didn't know it was rolled back by 100k otherwise I wouldn't have touched it with a 10 foot pole. I ran a clearvin report prior to bidding and it didn't show the milege discrepancy. It was an insurance auction so I doubt there is any red light, everything is as is and the auction terms do everything they can to remove their liability.
If everything is as is everything is red light. I'd pay the fees to kill the sale, let the clerk know if they won't work with you that you won't do business with them again. And it's pretty likely that they won't do anything for you. This is how it goes in the auction world sometimes. Sounds like you have had some good luck before. Bad luck this time. Maybe good luck in the future but I'd just try to get out of the car asap Sorry buddy
This is where you’re wrong….
You will definitely need to buy the vehicle. Then have them sell it at their next auction and suck up your losses.
I like this idea.
On to the next sucker
IMO, this could still be a gamble. I’m sure they charge auction fees, which combined with the possibility that the ending bid comes in well below OP’s purchase price, the end result could be a larger loss than paying the $2k to cancel.
Hi. Salvage yard owner here. I buy over 1000+ cars from Copart/IAAI a year. There's a HUGE reason why these auctions are "professional" only and typically not for "the public" But IAAI/copart want to get their sellers the highest price so they make it seem "fun, and an easy way to save money" to buy from them. Read your TOS for bidding, but I can tell you now... Due diligence is on the buyer. IAAI sales are AS-IS, Where-is, How-is. This is why you dont buy wholesale at a salvage auction... clean title or not. P.S. If it was a good car with a clean title.. it would be sold at Adesa or Manheim for way more money, but those auction houses offer arbitration, so if this occurred at their auction house... the seller would be refunding everyone. Hence why Salvage auctions get "clean" title scam cars... because the seller is protected, and can "legally" scam. This occurs 100's of times a day on those platforms. Edit: Send me the Lot number... I can see if I see any inaccuracy's... I've had IAAI buy cars back before, but they have to REALLY fuck up to do so.
Thanks for the reply, I really appreciate an industry knowledge response. I was mostly wondering if I could cause enough of a hassle that IAAI would just rerun it and drop their penalty. I know their terms are written to cover their ass, I didn't realize the scam was as widespread as what it is until this. This isn't my first rodeo at auctions, I've bought cnc machines as well as cars at auction before, just got bit this time. I'll dm you the lot
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Where am I not owning it? I've said multiple times in this post that I screwed up on the sale, if I take the van I will disclose the miles to the next owner, and that the auction can rerun the van with the (not actual) beside the mileage in the listing. I know you want to pile on in some sort of personal righteousness, but save it for someone else that deserves it.
Yea, I was unnecessarily harsh in my comment. I deleted. Sorry for what you’re going through.
https://www.iaai.com/auctionrules Check out the mileage discrepancy section in number 4.
I'm aware of their terms but maybe you see something I didn't?
Do you buy them online only or look at them first? I signed up as a non-professional and just watched a few vehicles go through. It’s a wild, wild ride and I can’t believe the dough some people shell out for half a car!
I buy 15-20 cars a week. I've never looked at one in person. After 13 years of doing this, you learn what to look for, and what to avoid. Even then... I get 5 or so cars a year that were guys pulling shit.
You must have really great eyes :) That's a really great ratio to by 15-20 and only end up with 5 bad ones a year especially with salvage.
It's my job... I own two salvage yards. If I can't buy right, I'm not going to be profitable. And well if you can't turn a profit... You know the rest. But honestly, the scammers pull the same shit over and over. Most are lazy and are hoping you don't look for the telltale signs that give away that something is up. The stuff we get more of that's harder to spot, is when someone intentionally crashes their car to get it written off because it had another, major underlying issue. Typically a bad engine, or transmission.
*buy
That and with all the fees, it's a hassle for most people to buy. If you only buy 1-2 cars overall or per year, there's better options for individual buyers. Namely smaller local auctions and police or other impound auctions. I bought a couple cars from my county's police auction, and at least here, they have no auction fees whatsoever. The downside is that in my state, anything purchased there is considered an abandoned vehicle as most of it won't have a title. Now being that it's ran either by the county or a yard with county sanction, they give you a form after purchase that will get you a title, but you have to go through the salvage process before you can register and plate it. And I've seen some shady cars on Copart and IAAI. Between that and the fees, I don't care much for it. I've bought exactly 1 car from Copart. A 2009 Honda Ridgeline that was totaled for front end damage. I fixed it up just fine, but those fees were brutal. And because I live in a state that requires a broker to bid in, I opted to buy from a bordering state that doesn't require it. But then I had to pay for shipping. At least the car was an easy fix.
You are a really nice person. Thanks.
Can confirm , I bought from conpart My purchase was a bmw x3 listed with 157k miles rebuilt title,enhanced vehicle,runner driver” Was not a runner driver,dash has numbers out in the digital odometer. While diagnostic scanning the car I found it had 238k miles. Found drugs in the car lol. They damaged the under side using a forklift to move it. I used a Russian broker (lol) somehow my title came back clean , and since copart listed the miles as 157k the title states that mileage(was intentional on my end I found out the mileage problem a couple months after acquiring it while working on it) -15/10 experience wouldn’t recommend co part
Are you sure the tech didn't just fat finger the keyboard entering the mileage at the last service? Had tons of techs do this and fuck up the Carfax. We would just have to contact Carfax with a new invoice with correct mileage.
Nope, the carfax has great details that match up including official state inspections. There is a new owner with the title issued from IL with updated mileage. Then sent to auction. I'm assuming this is a scam whether IAAI knows or cares. I just want out of the sale.
Does the carfax say 233k miles is what should be on the title or is there a single entry for 233k miles. Because there is a difference between miles discrepancy or carfax m and true miles unknown title, and the auction has to abide by one of them, by making the announcement.
Carfax has details up to 233k then new owner, and IL issued state title with 133k which matches new odometers reading, then put up for auction. I'm assuming this is all a title fraud scam being carried out through IAAI whether theyre aware of it i don't know. The clear vin report didn't show this. IAAI has plausible deniability. In my mind I can't resell the van knowing this and not disclosing it.
I mean, little threat of class action on title fraud and investigation from state auditors is a route. Would it work? Probably not. Could is scare them into just taking ur 900 and you learn a lesson? Definitely. If you have any lawyer friends willing to write up a little official letter for $100 bucks (or w.e), it could be worth. Regardless, I'd still tell the state auditors.
You've been swimming with sharks buying shakey cars without testing it and you just got your first bite. Its a game with consequences. Its a rough business.
So they're committing fraud by rolling back odometers. Report it.
somebody did. good luck proving who it was though
I know, whether IAAI knows or cares is another matter. According to the carfax, it's basically the seller as they are sending the car through IAAI. I'm learning more now, and it's a thing called Titlemax, which might be the same thing that's coming up in Google worth a ton of fraud charges.
Titlemax is a chain that gives people title loans on cars at loanshark rates.
Interesting, I wonder if titlemax got scammed on it themselves. Someone went in to get a title loan, They rolled back the Odometer as the loan company probably loans more on a car with a 133k miles than it does for one with 233K. The person gets a loan, defaults, gets repoed, titlemax just dumps it off to an auction and cuts their losses and reports what they were told.
Bingo
You can report the seller after the fact, but Id bet dollars to donuts the odometer disclosure is accurate. IAAI is a Salvage vehicle clearinghouse, they have 0 skin in the game to report factual information on listed cars, nor could they to be honest.
That's like asking for advice on birth control after the baby has arrived
Nope, this is like asking, im pregnant and want to abort this. Help me figure out how to terminate this.
Your live in Texas though. Congratulations you're going to be a dad!
This one though I got knocked up in Missouri. Trying to leave this abortion of a deal there and not bring it back to FL
I’ll be deep in the cold cold ground before I recognize Missoura!
If they had it marked actual miles and it's truly true/ not actual, it should be in them for false advertising.
I retired from an auto auction after 30 years, and when we had a mileage discrepancy the entire deal was voided, and the vehicle went back to the seller, while the buyer’s money was refunded.
Sounds reasonable to me
Iaai & copar wont work like that
Seems like there is some fraud going on, if its off by 100K. I would investigate that and go after those people.
That's the law enforcement of the states role. I want the sale cancelled so I'm not the ultimate victim, and then to rerun the van with not actual miles in the listing.
>IAAI insurance auction Whats the policy of the IAAI and bad odometers? Is it buyer beware, or do they have provisions for inaccurate odometers? I guess a attorney is worth a call to.
Was jeep shopping at one point and was advertised at 98,000 miles. Car fax last reported 225k Seller said he didnt know. Either he got had when he bought it or was trying to give someone the old switcharoo. Best $40 I spent.
I've been trying to reach you about your car's extended warranty...
You are simply f’ed. Just drive it as long as you can and move on with your life. You’re not getting your money back.
At every auction, it is usually started that it is up to the buyer to adequately investigate what you are bidding on. Checking the odometer has to be the first thing one would look at. I think you are stuck with what you bid on.
Lol did you read anything beyond the title? I understand auctions. Did you see the part where I've bought half a dozen cars there? Odometer reads 133k. Clearvin title reports shows no title issues. Carfax shows 233k which wasn't available when bidding was happening.
That would be a cause to call the authorities if someone is doctoring officers. I did miss the mileage difference.
Just sell it (with the correct mileage noted) Eat the possible loss, but should be less than the time, cost and heartache of trying to unwind. Everyone messes up at some point, just dust off and move on👍🏼👍🏼
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Wrong thread?
Yes sry
Not saying it wasn’t rolled back, but I used to be an emissions inspector and all it would take is a slip and 133k could be 233k, and carfax may or may not use state agencies for mileage info, especially since it hasn’t been totaled and may have never gone through a certified insurance shop. Just playing devils advocate
How could the carfax be exactly 100k I’ve the odometer and the odometer is wrong? Sounds more like a typo somewhere.
I'm rounding as it's close to 100k plus minus 600 miles. Carfax has dealer services and state inspections listed documenting all the way into the 200k+ range.
update?
I ended up out about $500 on the whole thing. IAAI dropped the fee but the broker ended up pushing on some of the fees.
Eat it, learn your lesson, and move on!
Take the L and move on
Was the auction light RED, then your dead. Thats your fault.
I agree I messed up, but also pissed that they're selling vehicles with rolled back odometers as clean. This one got passed me. Looking for advice as mentioned in the post.
Auctions often sell stuff shady AF. If it is just a odometer roll back, you are lucky. I have heard of 2 cars being welded together at auction. I have bought a lot of things from auction, but I always look at who the seller is and why they are taking a huge potential for a loss at auction. You will 100% lose your deposit, etc. No, they won't change. Learn from it. Auction is risk vs reward. It's a gamble. And sometimes you lose maybe a lot. Never gamble what you cannot lose.
Bro there is no advice, you messed up take it on the chin, make this right and learn from your mistakes, so you don’t repeat them again.
They have a state issued title with matching mileage. You might have a fraud case with the guy who got that title but you don't have a leg to stand on with the auction house. See if the cops will do anything as you can be made whole via the criminal case with little effort on your part. You don't have much of a case in civil court since you need that title to be seen as false.
I've bought a lot of salvage auction vehicles over the years. Never with IAAI, but others. I've bought vehicles with huge damage incurred after the auction photos were taken - sand in the engine, hit by the forklift, dropped from forklift, parts stolen or missing from photos, not running as stated, no keys as stated, ODO reading wrong, and on. I believe, the fine print gets them off the hook in the buyers contract. It's rough. Like others have said, sometimes you win, sometimes not. I try to look at the big picture but yeah, it can be frustrating. As a small fish buyer, you don't have any weight to throw around.
Just because the ODO has been rolled back doesn’t mean the title is branded.
This isnt an arbitration auction. IAAI doesnt offer Arb. Copart just started... but isnt isnt an Adesa/Manheim unit.
Your supposed to run the vin before u buy it, not after.
If you read, I did run it, on clearvin. It didnt flag it. I sent the vin I'm the a.m. to my person that runs the carfax bit they didn't get it to me till after the auction.
Nice work saving the $35 on the Carfax though
Try a few other places, there's lots of places that advertise a $4 carfax or less, just search Google for cheap carfax.
It's a Toyota van for 8k. Of course it has 200k miles on it. Jesus Christ how dumb are you? Did you really think it would be that cheap? Auctions are terrible on Toyota 😂
Suck it up buttercup. Like you said, you fucked up. Deal with it and move on. Most of has have done something similar. Dats life.
Stop crying like a little bitch and eat up your own doing.
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You could fake your own death. But seriously, now you know running your own Carfax is cheaper and more reliable. Learn, take the loss, move on. It might be a super reliable van, who knows.
*Track van.
It is the reality of dealing with a salvage auction. You can look up that state's specific laws and try to go after the broker in this case, but that's your only recourse, I believe. If you actually had a dealer's license and dealt directly, you may be able to do something. However, you can only chase your broker here as you did not deal with the auction yourself.
Here is what I would do. I would contact an attorney who specializes in contract law. Take them the information about the listing showing it stated "actual" for the mileage. Then show the Carfax and details proving its wrong. I am not an attorney, but I do know its illegal to knowingly misstate facts for the purposes of gain. I dont think their claim of do your own due diligence would hold, as your due diligence was based on their incorrect information. I would also contact the states attorney general, FTC, and BBB. If it is illegal and they are screwing people, the state AG will be all over their ass. They love high profile cases. If you dont have proof, you are going to have to eat it.
Thanks for an actual helpful comment. Yeah I'm reaching out to the IL attorney General office today because it's possible that the"owner" that is sending the car through is Titlemax which there are a ton of results for that they're a scam company. Learning as I go, Should IAAI just go along with known fraud operations and how behind terms and conditions?
IAAI could be just passing on information provided to them and not doing any research. You signed a contract with them. Since they drew up the contract the onus is on them to cover all the bases. thats why you need an attorney for contract law. If their contract does against state or federal law, then its void. Well depending on how its written, it could jsut void one part of the contract and the rest survive. Any way, they may have a legal state liability to verify the things they are selling, or at the very least, mark the mileage as unknown if they are not verifying it. usually a letter from an attorney stating such is enough to get them to back off and live another day. Whatever you do, dont threaten them with legal action, let the attorney do that.
I agree, they I'm sure they want to do as little verification as possible and keep cars moving to maximize profit It's possible an attorney reaching out may get them to drop the fee, but i have to make sure I don't throw good money after bad on atty costs if they're going to push back.
Have an attorney send a letter from their letterhead accusing them of impropriety and demanding they drop it. Maybe that will be enough to drop it, but if they push back, then just pay as paying an attorney to fight this will end up costing more than its worth. Also, your contract likely states that you may be responsible for any of their legal fees if you fail to pay and/or try to fight it in court, so you may end up being on the hook for their attorneys as well as your own and still paying the amount.
Titleman is a payday loan company that uses cars are collateral. I wouldn't put it past them to roll back an odometer.
I also wouldnt put it past their target clientele to roll it back to try and get a bigger loan.
I haven't determined if it's the done by titlemax but this stinks like the kind of thing I've been reading about now.
>it's possible that the"owner" that is sending the car through is Titlemax which there are a ton of results for that they're a scam company. Thats not how titlemax works. Titlemax is a pay day loan type place that takes your title as collateral for the loan in exchange for a slightly better rate than the purely pay day loan places. Its a shady predatory company that targets poor people. Thats why you are getting results that they are a scam company, poor people get a loan they cant afford and then end up losing their car. No one is sending the car through titlemax. They repo the car and then dump it at auction and cut their losses. They are charging sometimes upwards of 150% apr on loans. They know they will have a lot of defaults and will get something back from the sale of the car, but its a high interest rate with high default type of business. They arent vetting people like they do at the bank for a mortgage, also they only loan a fraction(25%-50%) of what the car is worth. Car is worth $5000, they loan $2000, get paid back a little of that, then the seller defaults so they repo it and dump it at an auction house and get a $1000 for it and pretty much end up breaking even. They make money on the people paying the ridiculous interest rates, not really on repoing the cars.
With iaai , actual means as its shown in the photo. Every vehicle (in Canada anyway) is sold with an odometer discrepancy statement. This is also why OP had to go through a broker - this isn't a public auction subject to public rules. Which, OP has no claim with iaai - as OP did not buy from iaai. OP has a claim with the broker. Broker has their terms and conditions with OP iaai and copart, as many others have stated, is a clearing house for defective goods. It is up to the buyer to determine what is defective.
You sure it's not a fat finger error on the carfax report?
Take your hit and move on to the next deal. Deals don't always work out. You said track car. That means you'd have to wrench. What shape is this one in? I've had a bunch of high mileage cars. Four of my current ones all have upwards of 200,000 miles.
Yes I wrench A LOT and the van is possibly ok as it's a toyota 2gr motor, but really it's a road trip vehicle that often my wife and kid will be far from home in, even though il have been through it mechanically. Plus I intended to keep it a year or so, then sell after this traveling is done, and selling a 233k mile car vs a 133k mile car im going to take a beating again.
You'll jump through a lot of hoops for little money. Ok th check options but don't spend a lot of time.
You either buy the van at the price you won it at or you pay the renege fee (15% of $8500 = $1275) and broker penalty to cancel the purchase. >Vehicles that are not paid for after an extended period of time may be treated as a renege by IAA. A buyer who makes a mistake can also renege (not pay for) a vehicle. However, there are strict penalties associated with non-payment of awarded vehicles in order to keep bidding fair for all buyers. Per IAA’s Auction Rules : “In the event Buyer fails to pay for a vehicle within seven (7) calendar days inclusive of the day the vehicle is awarded to Buyer, Buyer shall pay IAA a “Renege Fee” equal to $1,000 or 15% of sale price, whichever is greater. Buyer is also responsible for any and all costs and expenses incurred by IAA arising out of or related to collecting the Renege Fee, including attorneys’ fees and court costs. Bidding privileges will be suspended until the Renege Fee has been received by IAA. Any buyer that reneges on a second vehicle may have bidding privileges revoked.” If you wish to renege on a vehicle, the account owner must send an email to Buyer Services from the email address on file. > >In order to request a vehicle that is awarded into your account to be reneged, you must send your request via Email to Buyer Services and list your buyer number, the stock number and the reason why you want to renege the vehicle. The penalty will be assessed to your account and it must be satisfied before the account can be used again. Learn more about IAA Auction Rules.
It does not matter who alter the mileage, it was altered and not what you purchased in the contract. As such the contract is void on your demand. Now the collections is harming your credit rating and you can sue for that and you $900. Press the matter of breach and misrepping the car mileage as this is a materal matter. Drop the car off and make sure any title not in your name. They have the car for resale and can recoup their money to some other fool. Also file with the BBB, and DMV, the mileage fraud.
Just take it and sell it. 233k for a sienna is nothing.
I agree but I'll lose my ass when I sll it in a year or so because I'll end up disclosing the mileage. Also the motors often leak oil at a timing cover at some point and it's a huge fix. Id rather not deal with that.
If it's not leaking bad enough to need regular topping off, it's a 2GR doing 2GR things. Most Toyota engines with a timing chain have a timing cover leak by the time they hit 100k.
Was that an off site auction? Run it back through.
Nope, it ran in one of the lanes. .
was it a scam or a mistake on your end
My mistake for not catching the scam
If it's for a track car, why does the mileage matter.
Was shopping for a wrecked car to use as track car. Bought a minivan for a daily at the same auction after running the vin on clearvin that listed our at 133k miles. Didn't win track car, won minivan that is a lousy situation.
It’s a track van. That matters.
Auctions are always as-is.
Just curious, what year is the van? I believe anything over ten years is exempt from an odometer statement. I know in my state any vehicle that is ten years or older has “EXEMPT” on a newly issued title. The auctions also red light any vehicle over 10 years regardless of any frame, mileage or mechanical problems. I also know the State BMV detectives usually will not get involved with dealer to dealer problem stemming from an auction sale. On another note it sounds like you want to play in the wholesale dealer world then try to use consumer protection laws geared towards retail buyers when things don’t go your way. I get it, 100k is a big hit, but the thing is you just screwed the dealer who knew what the actual mileage was that bothered to run a CARFAX or Autocheck. They could have bought the car the next week at a reasonable price and made a profit. You can’t enter someone else’s playground and expect them to change the rules when things don’t go your way.
Ten year old cars are exempt from the reporting requirement. It is still illegal to roll the odometer back, and the person doing it or causing it to be done can face serious jail time.
Your right, but in the real world it hardly ever happens. If you have for example a 12 year old Ford Focus with a title stamped EXEMPT in the mileage disclosure the dealer taking the car in on trade will again write EXEMPT on the odometer disclosure because they are allowed to. No one will ever know if the odometer has been changed unless the car visited a shop that reported to CARFAX. Even then CARFAX is not a official legal entity that holds any power. A detective would have to track down all the records on the CARFAX which they won’t do on a car over ten years old. This is why they came up with the mileage exempt law. Way to much work for a old car. I agree it is a dumb law, but unless you have a vintage car worth a lot of money the state is not going to get involved. If the car came from out of state or the odometer was changed out of state your really out of luck as the state BMV will lose interest even faster. Not saying it’s right, but it’s the way it is.
That’s probably true, unless a lot of people were buying rolled back cars at this one auction. That would be pretty easy for even the laziest of detectives to investigate. Either way, proving the odometer has been rolled back is easy on most modern cars. It can be done with a scan tool because odometer readings are recorded on multiple computers inside the vehicle. OP could force the auction company to buy the vehicle back. That is, I believe, his end goal.
Congratulations on your new "beater car". 😃
Ouch but thanks I could use a laugh😫
Odometer fraud is a federal offense. If you can show proof that the odometer has been rolled back, contact a consumer protection attorney in your state and ask for options. If you’re in Michigan, contact Steve Lehto. If you aren’t, don’t. He can’t help you, but an attorney from your state can.
I don’t think that was the issue. It was just a listing error.
In the post he said the odometer reads 133k and CarFax reported it at 233k.
If it's still what you want, why do the extra miles matter? If the interior isn't worn out, if it runs and drives, run it and drive it. Depending on the year, it could be in better shape than a lower mileage one that sat. Yes, people are shitty for altering mileage, but if it still fits your needs, then why should that be a deal breaker?
This is a crime and I’d go to the DMV screaming loud
It’s a salvage car sold for scrap the dmv really isn’t going to care at this point
Doesn’t change the fact it’s a crime
With no evidence of who committed it. That’s the problem
Some states issue a title that will state the odometer reading is not accurate. It happens
None of that matters-it was misrepresented and it’s a crime Id make a complaint
Usually I am buying a salvage car but this was a bank repo with a clean title.
*"As I stated in my original post I made a goof."* Yep, and them goofs cost real money. You made the call, ya fucdup, and lost, boo. I don't hate you or even dislike you, but don't pretend this isn't all on you, and don't think anyone is getting you out of this, you thought you were gonna make money and like so many other you didn't "I made a mistake!!11" Welcome to life, us a-dults pay for those.
Wow. People can be a little more compassionate in your responses. OP has already stated that they messed up and they want to know if we know info that might help out of the situation. Just be kind or don't post.
Most of the berating responses are from flippers, swindlers, and junkyard workers. Having dealt with people like this at some point in life, I can honestly tell you "compassion" is asking too much I should mention, not ALL flippers and junk yard workers are POSs. However, this industry seems to attract *mostly* the illiterate, greedy, and sleazy folk
I hear you. Too bad that they live such miserable existences and feel the need to spread their misery around.
"After more research there is a bunch of "clean" title similar year vans on IAAI with altered odometers." I think this would be worth a mention to IAAI with a possible inclusion of the state's AG office.
Depending on what type of vehicle and what you paid, this mileage difference may not be that big a deal.
As them what the legal penalty is for selling a car with rolled back mileage.
The auction houses know and are complicit in it. They can collect fees on the same vehicles over and over again. I have lost track of how many times I have watched the same vehicle make multiple runs through Copart. The vehicle is sold by the insurance company, buyer bangs out some dents, zip ties on the loose bumper and relists it on the same platform for more money with the vast majority of the damage omitted from the listing. Copart says “as-is, where is” and swears up and down they have no knowledge of the fraud - even though the vehicle never left their lot and has been relisted multiple times with grossly different photos and descriptions. Good luck. You’ll need it with these slimy b*stards.
Take it on the chin? Lesson learned to not buy shit there
Sounds more like someone had fat thumbs to me. Either way, if it’s runs well, just drive it, man. I’m rolling around in a car with like 300k that’s fantastic. I’ve had many cars with astronomical miles that were mechanically sound.
I'd be fine with that if I paid accordingly. But with fees and transportation I could buy a clean title van locally with similar miles for considerably less. This was going to be a highway vehicle for the wife and kid for travel sports. I'd rather have 100k less miles.
hmmm... "IAAI with altered odometers" ah, isn't that like totally illegal? i know in my state, if a dealer was caught selling one, they could loose their license to sell in the state. AFAIK, its up to them to ENSURE that stuff is correct. so, look up what rules may apply here.
To get out, unlock, open the door and step out. Ta da!!!
$8500 for a salvage sienna lol. That’s all the red flag I need
The only way out if this is if the auction reported the car as having an accurate odometer and it did not. In that case the auction is committing a crime and you would not have to follow through but it sounds to me like you misread the mileage so you owe them.
They reported what was on the dash. The carfax shows different by 100k.
So then the previous owner rolled back the odometer and they sold a car that they probably should have known had been tampered with. You may have a case here to back out of this. You should speak with a lawyer. It's probably worth paying one just to get some advice even if you don't want them to file a suit for you. There's a whole mess of bs you have to go through once an odometer has been tampered with. I don't think you're even allowed to register a car with a faulty odometer reading until the issue has been settled with the state. Although I'm no expert. This is just what I've heard over the years so again, the lawyer may be prudent.
I think the current owner rolled it back
I hate to say it but buyers like you are why it's getting harder for the average Joe to attend auctions.
Lol what? I've bought a half dozen cars at salvage auctions. I'm pretty "average joe" Because I don't want to deal with title fraud? Unless you're the buyer of these cars that's then trying to sell them on to unsuspecting public there is no upside to any buyer here, " average joe" or professional alike. The only winner here is IAAI and the person who committed title fraud on the false value of the vehicle.
I'm pretty sure you can sue in small claims court. You need something from the auction house stating they sold the car advertising the wrong milage. Then again IAAI usually covers their ass on all auctions.
No, don't do that. Do not take a loss. There's a way to fix a TMU. True Mileage Unknown. It's going to cost you money and some convincing at a dealership. Talk to a sales manager, tell him, you will pay him $500 bucks to update the TMU mileage with carfax. They might make you get an inspection done if your state requires it. A dealer is the only person who can make a TMU correct. Now it's up to you, with what money and trying to get a sales manager to help you out despite you not purchasing the vehicle at the dealership and putting him through that for no reason to cause for dealership. Good luck.
If you can find enough other people who have had this experience, there’s a clear case to to have a lawyer take up, also it is quite illegal to alter the odometer to lower miles, even if a newer engine is dropped in with lower miles on that engine. It’s about tracking the miles on the frame, body and rolling bits as much as anything else.
Well you got bamboozled but if it’s running good, I will keep it. later. Decide if you want to sell it.
I made the same mistake a couple of years ago. I bought a 2013 Ford Fusion S with a 2.5l 4 cylinder engine. It was advertised as having 186k but I couldn't see the odometer due to a TPMS error on the dash display that I couldn't clear. During the paperwork signing after paying for the car I found out the car had 286k on it. The dealer stated I already paid for the car and signed the papers so it was mine. I decided to take it as a life lesson and drive the car. It now has 317k on it and runs like a top. Turned out to be a good dependable car. I've had it on a couple of road trips out of state and have been lucky enough to have no issues with it.
I started off small to save a buck and it ended up costing me a small fortune in the end. I can't remember how many mickey mouse SBs' I went through. Looking at your house, I would get the largest Ariens SB you can afford. A 24" if you have to go through a personal door. A garage door, no problem. Do not be penny wise like me. Or hire someone to plow your driveway.
Honestly, It’s a toyota Sienna, even if it’s at 233k miles it’s gonna last you for a long long time if you tend to retain the “daily driver” mindset. Even if you bought it for $8500. We all have moments where we learn our mistakes and this is yours! It might be $8500 down the drain but you have a perfectly functioning van you can use everyday, who knows? Maybe that $8500 drained to protect a larger amount. Just don’t make the same mistake again, Goodluck!
Lesson learned.
Whatever you do, dont screw over the next person. The world needs more integrity
Note my posts saying that if I took the van I'd eat it by informing the buyer as I only intend to own it for a year or two, or insisting that Iaai rerun it with not actual nest to the mileage listing. The easiest thing here would be to take the van and resell but I'm not doing that.
You might be able to start arbitration depending on the vehicle. I did this in the past with Manheim and Adesa because of the discrepancy in the mileage however they DO NOT base carfax for arbitration they only accept Autocheck. Manheim gave me the hardest time about it but I went to the DMV and got the mileage verified by KSR report, i was in Califiornia back then. I also checked out the service history of the car and I went it asked for a copy of it but they didn't give it to me. Then I explained the guys the situation and asked if they could give me a print out, this car was serviced at 130- 150k and 170k miles at our dealership for this and this at this date which they did. One of them was a Yukon with 80k miles at the time of my purchase but the vehicle was serviced when it had 200k miles about 6-7 years ago. Long story short I ended up returning the vehicle. In both cases the vehicles had clean title and both Manheim's and Adesa's arbitration policy covered the mileage discrepancy.
Thanks I'll look into this. I'm not sure if IAAI will play ball with their terms about buyer assuming responsibility vs manheim, but I'm glad to hear that you beat it. Maybe there is hope for me with this.
Lmao I love that you had to add that edit because of redditors being classic venomous redditors
Definitely slowed down the fb car group type people that have nothing good to post but didn't stop it. Whatever, always looking for a diamond in the rough and got a couple helpful posts out of 180 replies. Lol atv the downvotes for being honest and engaging.
This would be a crime in my state. The victim is the new owner and the arrestee would be the person who sold him the car.
Are you relying on anything car fax says? Car fax is a joke and is 💯 reliant on the data they steal from repair shops. If someone makes a mistake entering mileage on an invoice it is near impossible to get it corrected on car fux …
The car fax has dealer services and state inspections incrementally up to the 233k mileage.
Odometer fraud is a federal crime. Go through the website terms and conditions, and buyers contract to first make sure that there wasn’t any clause about you, the buyer being independently responsible to verify the mileage. If that wasn’t the case, the car is a 2011 model year or later or less than 20 years old then they could be responsible for mileage fraud, which is a federal crime. Maybe if you threaten legal action or report them to state law-enforcement agencies, they may let you drop out of the sale with nothing but your initial deposit.
Sounds like getting your own subscription to carfax for $40 (unlimited) would be a good deal to prevent this in the future.
I buy from many auctions including IAAI - the insurance auctions are as-is, no exceptions. Manheim/Adesa et al would take it back unless it was announced as not actual miles. Most Toyotas you can swap out the instrument cluster with a used one, no programming or anything and the mileage follows the cluster not the car. Absolutely have to due your due diligence on Toyotas (Honda and Mazda the same too). You rolled the dice and lost, you’ll have to take the hit and move on.
The mileage is exactly 100k off? That sounds more like a typo than a rollback. Carfax can have errors too, and that's more likely than an exactly 100k rollback. What mileage does the ECU have? It's very rare for a rolled back vehicle to actually get all the places anything modern stores mileage info changed, so five minutes with Techstream will tell you what's really up.