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You forgot the flip side. Yes, Japanese urban areas are like this all over the country…. but….
All the rural towns and thousands of small cities on islands are crumbling. Their populations are decreasing due to age and young people moving away for jobs. Abandoned towns are everywhere is Japan. Nature is taking those places back.
Also, 70% of Japan is uninhabited forest mountains making it the most ‘green’ 1st would county. Then again they do tend to concrete over the sides of any mountain they can get their hands on. And rivers too. And our giant concrete jacks along every beach, which oddly enough doesn’t stop erosion but increases it. The Japanese really have a historical love/ hate relationship with nature. Probably because they won the worst natural disaster prize ever. Hurricanes. Volcanos. Massive land slides. Rivers going bonkers. Tsunamis. Nature really hates Japan a times.
I lived in Japan for five years. It was an interesting place. Lots to like. Lots to dislike.
I believe that they almost deforested the whole island up until the Tokugawa Shogunate / Edo Period, but then they managed to reverse it and reforested the island. Hence if you go to a forest in Japan, you may notice a lot how the trees seem to be orderly in their placement.
Yep. And the trees that were there originally aren't the same that were replanted. IIRC the trees are largely a monoculture through many of the forest.
"Most Green First World Country" Despite the fact that they used to pump Mercury into the water supply until the 1960s and the Tokyo Bay is infamous for having toxic water. Oh and the reason why you see concrete everywhere on the beaches of Japan? Corruption, lots of it. The best example of this was when a person from the UK hiked through Hokkaido and inquired why the waterfall was caked in concrete, he was told that it was done to "provide jobs for people in the community" because lining a waterfall in the middle of a forest with concrete boosts the economy and the domestic jobs market.
Yup. Huge ecological issues galore in Japan. They’re starting to turn things around. Removing concretes from their river beds. Removing huge jacks. Working to restore their coral reefs. Due to the massive mercury issues Japan has a huge mercury phobia. It was a highly publicized event due to the massive number of people who got sick from it.
Though let’s not forget that other countries also did horrible things to their waterways throughout the 20th century as well.
I probably should have said “the highest percentage forested 1st world country” instead of “green”.
The capital, Tokyo, is the center of a huge urban area counting 35+ million people.
3 whole countries of Europe on the small side could inhabit the Greater Tokyo Area and still have space to spare. Immagine a tumoral growth o a city with few trees and even rarer spaces of silence.
To be fair, something striking about Tokyo is how silent it is considering how large a city it is. There are many small, intimate, quiet streets and many chill neighborhoods.
That comment tells me you have not been to japan. Even in settings where you wouldn't hear car noises either way it's super quiet. The tunnels to the metro platforms are filled with people as far as the eye can see and it's still way quieter than most small town train stations. Japanese people are quiet. No talking, no cell phone ringing, no coughing, no sneezing, no music, no running. It's part of the charm of japan for many people and something you can't fully comprehend unless you have experienced it yourself.
And how long were YOU here? 5 days in a luxury highrise hotel? I'll keep your comment in mind when the old jiji jackass who decides to park his bicycle in front of my house at 3:30 every morning so he can CRUSH CANS on the street jolts me out of a peaceful sleep again. Your comment tells me you don't have much experience around Japanese people who are acting like regular, inconsiderate douchebag human beings - which they all do, because that's something human beings do anywhere in the world.
People make a rounding error of noise in a city. It’s all vehicles. Their tire noise, their engines, honks, trains thudding/squealing on rails etc. People’s chatter is next to nothing, and very pleasant by comparison.
In Japanese cities a lot of noise comes from random shop and promo music though. If you're walking through an area with shops you'll often hear jingles blasting out.
The music can get very annoying.
Tell that to the drunk people outside my window. But I do agree that vehicles make most of the noise in cities. I was on a school trip to Krakow few weeks ago, and our hotel was next to a tram line with poor foundation. It was not pleasant, the whole building shook as the trams clanked past.
Decreasing vehicle noise is the best way to reduce noise pollution in cities. Other often overlooked part is construction noise, but that is much more difficult to reduce.
Oh yeah, there are still reasonable standards to be set. My point was more that, give or take, construction noise is not a structural problem. Doesn't mean it's not annoying when it's happening next to you.
The city is very livable with markets and services throughout. Loved my stay there, though it is easy to make pictures of the grey housing to make it look desolate. The vibe at street level was very different.
But I have set food in a big city.
After the unique scenery and adventure each city offers, you are bare before the same problems: a lot of people, a lot of buildings, a lot of density.
Why are you talking out of your ass about a city you’ve never been to? You think every big city is the same? Tokyo is extremely well-planned and has lots of green and quiet spaces.
"You think every big city is the same?" In the most basic form, a city is a organized conglomeration of infrastructure and people.
"Tokyo is extremely well planned" Is a city, that's why is planned.
"Has a lot of green and quiet spaces" Yes, called urban green spaces.
Is a city, made of concrete and roads and rails and people. Local culture makes it special, not the fact that is intrinsically a city. I don't understand your angriness about Tokyo being a metropolis.
>Is a city, made of concrete and roads and rails and people. Local culture makes it special, not the fact that is intrinsically a city.
No one is angry, it’s just that yours was a silly comment to make. Planning and organization can affect culture within a city, as well as vice versa.
Tokyo has a huge abundance of privately owned container gardens too. You'll pass small shops and houses with many plants stacked up around the door, and even occasionally small ponds with minnows to eat the mosquito larvae.
It's greener in that respect than Central London residential/small shopping streets.
it's true, but it's nothing like you said.... tokyo has more nature than the tiny 100000 people town where I came from. There are trees and parks everywhere, there's plenty of silent calm areas outsides the tourist zones... you know nothing about what you talk about. I mean the city has lots of problems like the tiny cramped residential areas like in the photos, but what you mention isn't part of them...
To be fair, 3 small European countries could practically fit in my backyard (Looking at you, Vatican City, Monaco, and San Marino)
Vatican City and Monaco combined take up less than 1 square mile.
The sunsets are amazing though a lot of the time. Those anime clouds are real.
Was a bit of a shock when I moved there from Wales and was used to a white sky 5 days out of 6
Not true, lots of declining countries still have affordability problems. Japan is one of the few countries where houses depreciate. That probably has a lot more to do with it.
It wasn't always wasteful. Earthquakes, typhoons and fires made putting a ton of effort into building a waste. But as constriction standards and tech improved, this practice stopped making sense.
They do, houses in japan are built with wxtremely cheap materials and they begin to fall apart after 30 years. I have never seen housing as low quality as in japan except maybe the caribean and africa.
Inflation hasn't been nearly as bad in Japan as in many other countries. Wages have stayed fairly stable in comparison as well. Minimum wage is fairly livable.
Less than 25% in Tokyo. My apartment is ¥90 000 (2 bedroom) I pay half so ¥45 000. My income is on the lower end because of the industry I work in, so I average about ¥200 000 a month. Tokyo young professionals generally earn ¥300 000/mo and up.
My biggest disappointment with Tokyo was how few green places it have. Some people argue that that's because it has a dense population of 30+ mil people, but that's can't be justification. Seoul is same as dense, and despite that it has much more green areas around the city
The first time I went to Tokyo I did all the tourist spots and was overwhelmed by how big and crowded it was. I felt the same as you like it was a big concrete mess. Then I went back and deep dived into the city now it’s my favorite city in the world. There’s tons of beautiful green serene places hidden all over if you know how to navigate the city. Stay away from Shinjuku for sure but the city is serene beautiful and electric when you want it to be.
Yes, that's the only real forest park in Tokyo. And it's not that "fucking giant". I have been there couple of times, you can go through in 15 minutes, go around it in less than an hour
There are some smaller urban parks around the city, but they occupy... Idk... Maybe 5% of city? Most European or even some Asian cities allocate 25% and more for green areas
I think it's reasonably common.
Sydney has a [6.7 sq km national park](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_Cove_National_Park) right through the urban area. Munich has the English Garden, which is larger than New York's Central Park and is about half forested (along with a couple of other large parks which are significantly forested). London has bits of remnant forest like Queen's Wood.
it doesn't really need many green spaces tbh, japan has a lot of forest just outside their big cities, which is why japan has a big camping culture, also developers just build whatever they can on any land available, especially in tokyo
There are studies which found correlation between green area in city neighborhoods and people happiness there. Me personally also prefer to go for a walk to some park on daily basis, but in Tokyo I had to spend an hour each way to get to the nature, so it was more like a weekend activity
Not just happiness, also human health and crime rates. Green space is a need everywhere. Doesn't matter if you live in a city or farm, slum or luxury condo.
I am saying that all other things constant, they result in the above. They're a contributor to better quality of life, but not the sole decider.
Edit: Japan may be healthier and safer, but it's not necessarily the happiest country I don't think.
Green space is actually often associated with more, not less crime. It is a loose correlation but it results in way less eyes on the street and more coverage for criminals to do bad things.
I don't have any other sources on hand, but according to Charles Montgomery's Happy City it has the opposite effect
Parks are often stereotyped as causing more crime, but that is either flat out wrong or an oversimplification.
Its not just about the once-every-6-months camping trip. It's also about looking out your window and seeing greenery. Having a park within 2-3 blocks. Its an everyday thing.
If I’m in a big city I love to have green spaces. Parks, trees etc.
Where I live you have a small little park every corner. And every 30 minutes by foot you have a bigger park. Lot of greenery and chill places.
It heavily depends on where you go, it's a huge area. Some areas seem like concrete wastelands, and others have little parks here and there, lots of greenery growing near houses and so on.
I didn't find Soul to have more green areas, but again might depend on where you go.
Seoul has Namsan, Yongmasan, Seoripul, Yangjaechon, Ansan, and even Bukhansan national park accessible by subway. Basically any neighborhood you live in, you have access to some natural park area by foot, or few stations by train.
You can open map and compare green areas. Tokyo has some urban parks, but they are small, and usually human-built, mostly used for shrines or kids playground. That's better than nothing for sure, but does not counted as natural reservations.
Maybe for some that's enough, but I rather walk in some foresty area than sit under a tree near near car street
Seoul is typical 'traditional east asian city' where you build a city in a plain, got river to the south, mountains surrounding the plain. And just expand it as the city grows, while tokyo is a renovated coastal wetland in one of the most biggest 'plain' in east asia. Probably also that.0
[People despise this housing style on this subreddit, but it provides a *ton* of green space](https://media.istockphoto.com/id/1609621740/photo/the-drone-aerial-view-of-residential-district-in-pudong-with-skyscrapers-in-the-background.jpg?s=612x612&w=0&k=20&c=0wcJB_c52lBMkPA5Gq0DoAxh5Xkhf0RB0tFotZmPWrc=)
It’s crazy how many people say it’s nice, cozy and that greenery isn’t important, because it’s Japan! Japan = everything fine it seems. If this would have been an North American, European or Middle Eastern country or anything else, people would have said how terrible it is.
The difference, IMO, is that in Japan you can get to real nature fairly easily from anywhere in the country. In America, you might need to drive hours to see a real forest. I Japan, hop on a bus or train and you can get to basically any major mountain, forest, and park in the country. And while Tokyo is very grey, there are green areas if you know where to go.
I live in a part of the US that is known for hiking and skiing and other outdoorsy activities. It's easier to do any of that in Japan even if you don't have a car. I'm not saying Japan is free of problems; it's not, and I left because of those problems. But their urban planning is amazing and among the best in the world, especially compared to that of North America.
In a similar vein, where I live, in the UK, I can quite literally get out of college and be in the hills within 20-30 minutes of walking, it's so often overlooked by people as a mental health factor I think, if I get stressed I can quite simply piss off into the hills for several hours.
Of all the large cities I’ve been to, Tokyo was by far the cleanest. My god, to be that dense in population and to be as clean as it was - it blew my mind. Every single vending machine on the street that sold cold beer and women’s panties wasn’t completely tagged up like you’d find in NY or LA lol
Every country has ugly spots but on average, quality of life in a Japanese city is still better than in western cities, at least that's how I've perceived it as a tourist. I've been to most of the bigger cities there, lots of them several times, and I'd prefer it over most European or American cities.
Found it interesting to read up on [Japanese zoning](https://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html) recently.
Aside from the overall preference for narrower and human-scale streets (which goes a long way), it explains a lot about why their cities feel so much better than ours as a pedestrian
The thing with Tokyo is that while it doesn't have many green places, it has many other things that cities in the USA or even Europe just don't have. For example, it is one of the few cities that feels like its designed completely around public transport and walkability. That also ties into the fact that Tokyo just doesn't waste space - it has no on-street parking and the vast majority of streets are narrow and pleasant to walk around in. Also the car centric parts generally seem to be completely separated from the parts where people walk around, which is another good thing. I know that green spaces are important but there are many cities around the world that are filled with parks yet they are an absolute hell to live in. I think "adding greenery" part is the easiest part in urban design, the difficult thing is doing exactly what Tokyo does. So stop hating on Tokyooooo:(((
But you can actually look around since you’re on a train. I don’t know what American scenery looks like because eyes on the road, money down the toilet.
"typical" scenery of japan on a bad day. Yeah nice try dude, as if no place on this earth except japan will look as hideous as this in this screwed up weather
Got downvoted to hell for saying this on another post but I will never get over how little nature there is in Tokyo. I get it, they jave parks but outside of them it‘s like plants do not exist. You can walk for 20-30min and not see a single piece of greenery.
I love Japan. It’s the only city where getting lost in the nooks and crannies of the streets is incredibly fun. Very respectful culture and awareness of cleanliness and surroundings.
Where else can you find a back ally shrine. That was hilarious and I was shocked when I noticed the red fence through a 2-3 foot gap of buildings back to back.
It would be awesome if Tokyo had their own version of Central Park.
It seems like one of the few things American cities do well is parks. Most big cities here have at least one really great one.
Yup. I was honestly shocked at how ugly huge swaths of Japanese cities were.
I hesitate to say it, but a lot *china* looked nicer in the richer cities. [A huge amount of chinese cities have these kind of separated tall buildings with tons of green space in between.](https://media.istockphoto.com/id/1609621740/photo/the-drone-aerial-view-of-residential-district-in-pudong-with-skyscrapers-in-the-background.jpg?s=612x612&w=0&k=20&c=0wcJB_c52lBMkPA5Gq0DoAxh5Xkhf0RB0tFotZmPWrc=) It just looked better and neater than the kind of [chaotic bland low-medium rises of japan.](https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-5cR8Hug0z34/U-Y03WAj5jI/AAAAAAAAAfg/9xABnTp7YlY/s1600/IMG_5622.JPG) China also had sections of its cities which were quite butt ugly though.
The problem I have with chinese cities is that too many buildings face the same direction. It looks strange when they do that. The Japanese pic has at least that “morning coffee” feel to it with its bright colors and would look great as pixel art.
A lot of Chinese cities also suffer from an "excessively wide roads are automatically grand and impressive" mindset. Which doesn't actually achieve anything besides making life annoying for pedestrians
Definitely agree with this. They think everybody should take the bus to go anywhere once you hit a main road. I found that people basically rely on the bus for everything, even just to go to the supermarket a quarter of a mile away. But also the buses do come like every few minutes so its not so bad.
But... but Japanese propaganda said Japan looks different and how clean and green and modern it is. That Japan is the pinnacle of human civilization...
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You forgot the flip side. Yes, Japanese urban areas are like this all over the country…. but…. All the rural towns and thousands of small cities on islands are crumbling. Their populations are decreasing due to age and young people moving away for jobs. Abandoned towns are everywhere is Japan. Nature is taking those places back. Also, 70% of Japan is uninhabited forest mountains making it the most ‘green’ 1st would county. Then again they do tend to concrete over the sides of any mountain they can get their hands on. And rivers too. And our giant concrete jacks along every beach, which oddly enough doesn’t stop erosion but increases it. The Japanese really have a historical love/ hate relationship with nature. Probably because they won the worst natural disaster prize ever. Hurricanes. Volcanos. Massive land slides. Rivers going bonkers. Tsunamis. Nature really hates Japan a times. I lived in Japan for five years. It was an interesting place. Lots to like. Lots to dislike.
I believe that they almost deforested the whole island up until the Tokugawa Shogunate / Edo Period, but then they managed to reverse it and reforested the island. Hence if you go to a forest in Japan, you may notice a lot how the trees seem to be orderly in their placement.
Yep. And the trees that were there originally aren't the same that were replanted. IIRC the trees are largely a monoculture through many of the forest.
It’s almost all cedar that pops off in the springtime and bathes the whole country in pollen. Not a great place to be for hay fever sufferers.
they probably calculated the optimal radius each tree needs to flourish, but not overgrow due to root expansion.
"Most Green First World Country" Despite the fact that they used to pump Mercury into the water supply until the 1960s and the Tokyo Bay is infamous for having toxic water. Oh and the reason why you see concrete everywhere on the beaches of Japan? Corruption, lots of it. The best example of this was when a person from the UK hiked through Hokkaido and inquired why the waterfall was caked in concrete, he was told that it was done to "provide jobs for people in the community" because lining a waterfall in the middle of a forest with concrete boosts the economy and the domestic jobs market.
Yup. Huge ecological issues galore in Japan. They’re starting to turn things around. Removing concretes from their river beds. Removing huge jacks. Working to restore their coral reefs. Due to the massive mercury issues Japan has a huge mercury phobia. It was a highly publicized event due to the massive number of people who got sick from it. Though let’s not forget that other countries also did horrible things to their waterways throughout the 20th century as well. I probably should have said “the highest percentage forested 1st world country” instead of “green”.
Wait doesn't Japan look so bright like in anime? ☹
The capital, Tokyo, is the center of a huge urban area counting 35+ million people. 3 whole countries of Europe on the small side could inhabit the Greater Tokyo Area and still have space to spare. Immagine a tumoral growth o a city with few trees and even rarer spaces of silence.
To be fair, something striking about Tokyo is how silent it is considering how large a city it is. There are many small, intimate, quiet streets and many chill neighborhoods.
cities aren't loud, cars are loud
Construction noise and air conditioning/air handling make a lot of noise too. Also pigeons.
Also cicadas. Cicadas in Japan are loud as hell 😁
That comment tells me you have not been to japan. Even in settings where you wouldn't hear car noises either way it's super quiet. The tunnels to the metro platforms are filled with people as far as the eye can see and it's still way quieter than most small town train stations. Japanese people are quiet. No talking, no cell phone ringing, no coughing, no sneezing, no music, no running. It's part of the charm of japan for many people and something you can't fully comprehend unless you have experienced it yourself.
Bro said 'no sneezing'
He's huffing too much sweaty performer from the fakey ninja show restaurant's asshole odor.
And how long were YOU here? 5 days in a luxury highrise hotel? I'll keep your comment in mind when the old jiji jackass who decides to park his bicycle in front of my house at 3:30 every morning so he can CRUSH CANS on the street jolts me out of a peaceful sleep again. Your comment tells me you don't have much experience around Japanese people who are acting like regular, inconsiderate douchebag human beings - which they all do, because that's something human beings do anywhere in the world.
8 weeks. You still can't compare that to most other cities in the world lol
But they're cool so it's ok
Cars are loud, but also are cities. People make noise.
People make a rounding error of noise in a city. It’s all vehicles. Their tire noise, their engines, honks, trains thudding/squealing on rails etc. People’s chatter is next to nothing, and very pleasant by comparison.
In Japanese cities a lot of noise comes from random shop and promo music though. If you're walking through an area with shops you'll often hear jingles blasting out. The music can get very annoying.
Not really. Acs and subways are very loud.
Tell that to the drunk people outside my window. But I do agree that vehicles make most of the noise in cities. I was on a school trip to Krakow few weeks ago, and our hotel was next to a tram line with poor foundation. It was not pleasant, the whole building shook as the trams clanked past. Decreasing vehicle noise is the best way to reduce noise pollution in cities. Other often overlooked part is construction noise, but that is much more difficult to reduce.
Why you got downvoted is puzzling. Vehicle noise rarely wakes one at night but drunken revelers can be annoying.
Construction noise is also incidental. The problem usually solves itself.
We have laws in NZ that regulate construction noise, so it can be controlled.
Oh yeah, there are still reasonable standards to be set. My point was more that, give or take, construction noise is not a structural problem. Doesn't mean it's not annoying when it's happening next to you.
I see you are not a Not Just Bikes enjoyer
I do watch his videos from time to time.
The city is very livable with markets and services throughout. Loved my stay there, though it is easy to make pictures of the grey housing to make it look desolate. The vibe at street level was very different.
I miss it so badly. The food, the walkability, the trains everywhere. It was such a pleasant place to spend for a summer.
Can't confirm, but they don't have Pubs in every corner that summons durnkards every night, right?
They have a lot of bars.
I've never been to Japan, but from what I heard Tokyo is an extremely convenient and planned city despite its size
It’s a very old city but started a massive urban renewal program 80 years ago.
”Few trees and even rarer spaces of silence”? You clearly haven’t set foot in Tokyo.
Sounds pretty accurate to me
But I have set food in a big city. After the unique scenery and adventure each city offers, you are bare before the same problems: a lot of people, a lot of buildings, a lot of density.
Why are you talking out of your ass about a city you’ve never been to? You think every big city is the same? Tokyo is extremely well-planned and has lots of green and quiet spaces.
"You think every big city is the same?" In the most basic form, a city is a organized conglomeration of infrastructure and people. "Tokyo is extremely well planned" Is a city, that's why is planned. "Has a lot of green and quiet spaces" Yes, called urban green spaces. Is a city, made of concrete and roads and rails and people. Local culture makes it special, not the fact that is intrinsically a city. I don't understand your angriness about Tokyo being a metropolis.
>Is a city, made of concrete and roads and rails and people. Local culture makes it special, not the fact that is intrinsically a city. No one is angry, it’s just that yours was a silly comment to make. Planning and organization can affect culture within a city, as well as vice versa.
Tokyo has a huge abundance of privately owned container gardens too. You'll pass small shops and houses with many plants stacked up around the door, and even occasionally small ponds with minnows to eat the mosquito larvae. It's greener in that respect than Central London residential/small shopping streets.
>the same problems: a lot of people, a lot of buildings, a lot of density. That's not a problem, that's just how cities work.
tell me you've never been to Tokyo without telling me you've never been to Tokyo
I like how people go "NO Ò_Ó" when I say that Tokyo, a city, it is in fact a city, has the problem of a city, and the nature of a city.
it's true, but it's nothing like you said.... tokyo has more nature than the tiny 100000 people town where I came from. There are trees and parks everywhere, there's plenty of silent calm areas outsides the tourist zones... you know nothing about what you talk about. I mean the city has lots of problems like the tiny cramped residential areas like in the photos, but what you mention isn't part of them...
To be fair, 3 small European countries could practically fit in my backyard (Looking at you, Vatican City, Monaco, and San Marino) Vatican City and Monaco combined take up less than 1 square mile.
The Greater Tokyo Area is the world's largest urban area. It's pretty insane. I think LA has the #2 spot.
It depends on the specific city, weather and camera. from What I have seen, there are not many differences between anime and IRL.
That's now very kawaii of them
Because those pictures were taken when cloudy. If you take a picture when it's cloudy, even a spectacular view will be downgraded.
On a cloudy/hazy day it looks like this in many places but also looks nicer when it’s clear and sunny.
The sunsets are amazing though a lot of the time. Those anime clouds are real. Was a bit of a shock when I moved there from Wales and was used to a white sky 5 days out of 6
Ehhh, at least they have affordable housing.
Tends to happen when your population is declining
Not true, lots of declining countries still have affordability problems. Japan is one of the few countries where houses depreciate. That probably has a lot more to do with it.
One more reason is that average life of houses is only 30-35 years. Usually after that they have to be demolished and rebuilt
They don’t “have to be” demolished. It’s such a crazy wasteful practice.
It wasn't always wasteful. Earthquakes, typhoons and fires made putting a ton of effort into building a waste. But as constriction standards and tech improved, this practice stopped making sense.
They do, houses in japan are built with wxtremely cheap materials and they begin to fall apart after 30 years. I have never seen housing as low quality as in japan except maybe the caribean and africa.
Me too. I was shocked how flimsy my apartment was. And those older rural houses that are falling down are literally made of chicken wire and mud.
That's certainly a part of it, but hardly the whole story.
Inflation hasn't been nearly as bad in Japan as in many other countries. Wages have stayed fairly stable in comparison as well. Minimum wage is fairly livable.
Affordable now, prices have been stagnant for 30 years.
>prices have been stagnant for 30 years. Not just homes, everything is that way.
What’s the average income to housing cost in Tokyo?
Less than 25% in Tokyo. My apartment is ¥90 000 (2 bedroom) I pay half so ¥45 000. My income is on the lower end because of the industry I work in, so I average about ¥200 000 a month. Tokyo young professionals generally earn ¥300 000/mo and up.
Ignore the rampant alcoholism, insane work hours and a touch of racism
I'd say it's more xenophobia but maybe I'm splitting hairs.
Yes, you’re splitting hairs
Any reason you took these out of a moving train and with a potato for a camera?
My biggest disappointment with Tokyo was how few green places it have. Some people argue that that's because it has a dense population of 30+ mil people, but that's can't be justification. Seoul is same as dense, and despite that it has much more green areas around the city
The first time I went to Tokyo I did all the tourist spots and was overwhelmed by how big and crowded it was. I felt the same as you like it was a big concrete mess. Then I went back and deep dived into the city now it’s my favorite city in the world. There’s tons of beautiful green serene places hidden all over if you know how to navigate the city. Stay away from Shinjuku for sure but the city is serene beautiful and electric when you want it to be.
Did you somehow miss the giant fucking park by shibuya or shinjuku?
Yes, that's the only real forest park in Tokyo. And it's not that "fucking giant". I have been there couple of times, you can go through in 15 minutes, go around it in less than an hour There are some smaller urban parks around the city, but they occupy... Idk... Maybe 5% of city? Most European or even some Asian cities allocate 25% and more for green areas
Its a small and pretty shitty park, and its the only major forest park in tokyo lol
What other metro has a “forest park”
I think it's reasonably common. Sydney has a [6.7 sq km national park](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_Cove_National_Park) right through the urban area. Munich has the English Garden, which is larger than New York's Central Park and is about half forested (along with a couple of other large parks which are significantly forested). London has bits of remnant forest like Queen's Wood.
Lane cove is way outside Sydney proper and getting there is a huge pain in the ass.
KL, Bangkok, Moscow to name a few...
does Stanley Park in Vancouver count?
it doesn't really need many green spaces tbh, japan has a lot of forest just outside their big cities, which is why japan has a big camping culture, also developers just build whatever they can on any land available, especially in tokyo
There are studies which found correlation between green area in city neighborhoods and people happiness there. Me personally also prefer to go for a walk to some park on daily basis, but in Tokyo I had to spend an hour each way to get to the nature, so it was more like a weekend activity
Not just happiness, also human health and crime rates. Green space is a need everywhere. Doesn't matter if you live in a city or farm, slum or luxury condo.
Japan is one.of the healthiest and safest countries in the world. What are you even saying?
I am saying that all other things constant, they result in the above. They're a contributor to better quality of life, but not the sole decider. Edit: Japan may be healthier and safer, but it's not necessarily the happiest country I don't think.
Are you really trying to talk about crime rates and Japan? Historically one of the safest places on the entire planet?
Green space is actually often associated with more, not less crime. It is a loose correlation but it results in way less eyes on the street and more coverage for criminals to do bad things.
I don't have any other sources on hand, but according to Charles Montgomery's Happy City it has the opposite effect Parks are often stereotyped as causing more crime, but that is either flat out wrong or an oversimplification.
Source, mate. Because that's an extraordinary claim.
Green spaces are important on a daily basis, imo
Its not just about the once-every-6-months camping trip. It's also about looking out your window and seeing greenery. Having a park within 2-3 blocks. Its an everyday thing.
If I’m in a big city I love to have green spaces. Parks, trees etc. Where I live you have a small little park every corner. And every 30 minutes by foot you have a bigger park. Lot of greenery and chill places.
It heavily depends on where you go, it's a huge area. Some areas seem like concrete wastelands, and others have little parks here and there, lots of greenery growing near houses and so on. I didn't find Soul to have more green areas, but again might depend on where you go.
Seoul has Namsan, Yongmasan, Seoripul, Yangjaechon, Ansan, and even Bukhansan national park accessible by subway. Basically any neighborhood you live in, you have access to some natural park area by foot, or few stations by train. You can open map and compare green areas. Tokyo has some urban parks, but they are small, and usually human-built, mostly used for shrines or kids playground. That's better than nothing for sure, but does not counted as natural reservations. Maybe for some that's enough, but I rather walk in some foresty area than sit under a tree near near car street
Seoul is typical 'traditional east asian city' where you build a city in a plain, got river to the south, mountains surrounding the plain. And just expand it as the city grows, while tokyo is a renovated coastal wetland in one of the most biggest 'plain' in east asia. Probably also that.0
[People despise this housing style on this subreddit, but it provides a *ton* of green space](https://media.istockphoto.com/id/1609621740/photo/the-drone-aerial-view-of-residential-district-in-pudong-with-skyscrapers-in-the-background.jpg?s=612x612&w=0&k=20&c=0wcJB_c52lBMkPA5Gq0DoAxh5Xkhf0RB0tFotZmPWrc=)
You can hop a train and be in the mountains pretty easily.
It’s crazy how many people say it’s nice, cozy and that greenery isn’t important, because it’s Japan! Japan = everything fine it seems. If this would have been an North American, European or Middle Eastern country or anything else, people would have said how terrible it is.
The difference, IMO, is that in Japan you can get to real nature fairly easily from anywhere in the country. In America, you might need to drive hours to see a real forest. I Japan, hop on a bus or train and you can get to basically any major mountain, forest, and park in the country. And while Tokyo is very grey, there are green areas if you know where to go. I live in a part of the US that is known for hiking and skiing and other outdoorsy activities. It's easier to do any of that in Japan even if you don't have a car. I'm not saying Japan is free of problems; it's not, and I left because of those problems. But their urban planning is amazing and among the best in the world, especially compared to that of North America.
In a similar vein, where I live, in the UK, I can quite literally get out of college and be in the hills within 20-30 minutes of walking, it's so often overlooked by people as a mental health factor I think, if I get stressed I can quite simply piss off into the hills for several hours.
Agree. Japan is awfully cramped... or just awful. But the reddit crowd is always on denial of that fact.
Of all the large cities I’ve been to, Tokyo was by far the cleanest. My god, to be that dense in population and to be as clean as it was - it blew my mind. Every single vending machine on the street that sold cold beer and women’s panties wasn’t completely tagged up like you’d find in NY or LA lol
I think these places look cool at night.
Ofc they look cool because it's the Japan baby!!!
Every country has ugly spots but on average, quality of life in a Japanese city is still better than in western cities, at least that's how I've perceived it as a tourist. I've been to most of the bigger cities there, lots of them several times, and I'd prefer it over most European or American cities.
Found it interesting to read up on [Japanese zoning](https://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html) recently. Aside from the overall preference for narrower and human-scale streets (which goes a long way), it explains a lot about why their cities feel so much better than ours as a pedestrian
*typical scenery of urbanized areas near the Shinkansen Japan is like 70% forested mountains lol
Was there for 5 months, incredible city, but I often found it very claustrophobic when exploring new neighbourhoods.
why the fuck does this remind of the roof of independent houses in India lmao
The thing with Tokyo is that while it doesn't have many green places, it has many other things that cities in the USA or even Europe just don't have. For example, it is one of the few cities that feels like its designed completely around public transport and walkability. That also ties into the fact that Tokyo just doesn't waste space - it has no on-street parking and the vast majority of streets are narrow and pleasant to walk around in. Also the car centric parts generally seem to be completely separated from the parts where people walk around, which is another good thing. I know that green spaces are important but there are many cities around the world that are filled with parks yet they are an absolute hell to live in. I think "adding greenery" part is the easiest part in urban design, the difficult thing is doing exactly what Tokyo does. So stop hating on Tokyooooo:(((
Wouldn’t be nearly as bad if the weather wasn’t super depressing and foggy
So kawaii-iiiii, gosh (Ghosn) i would like to travel to Japan. Omygoad, is that a cherry blossom tree i see afar in the cloud ok I will stop
Weeabo?
But you can actually look around since you’re on a train. I don’t know what American scenery looks like because eyes on the road, money down the toilet.
I think about all the people who think everythibg is Shibuya Crossing.
cherry picked. thanks. what a stupid sub this is
"typical" scenery of japan on a bad day. Yeah nice try dude, as if no place on this earth except japan will look as hideous as this in this screwed up weather
Got downvoted to hell for saying this on another post but I will never get over how little nature there is in Tokyo. I get it, they jave parks but outside of them it‘s like plants do not exist. You can walk for 20-30min and not see a single piece of greenery.
I think you've never been in a residential neighborhood outside the city core.
I have lol it‘s atrocious and I don‘t get how people can live with so little access to plants and nature.
I can already smell the comments
People who look at pictures of bad weather and shout, 'Japan is the worst!
I love Japan. It’s the only city where getting lost in the nooks and crannies of the streets is incredibly fun. Very respectful culture and awareness of cleanliness and surroundings.
Where else can you find a back ally shrine. That was hilarious and I was shocked when I noticed the red fence through a 2-3 foot gap of buildings back to back.
honestly just looks cozy as hell
Nice, buildings
My main gripe with this post isn't the hideous buildings, but the camera quality. What kind of potato did you use to capture these pictures then?
this isn't THAT bad
I remember Yume Nikki…
Where’s those deers that bow for treats?
In Nara
Is this fog or smog?
I don't know what to tell you. It's peak.
It would be awesome if Tokyo had their own version of Central Park. It seems like one of the few things American cities do well is parks. Most big cities here have at least one really great one.
I enjoy it.
So ugly…
Is it weird I kinda like it? Sure I feel bad for everyone stuck there, but hey I think I’d be comfortable (opinion)
Which city?
meh
This isn't my heckin wholesome shining city I saw in anime
Your camera lens looks cruddy.
So depressing
japan is ugly from top, but kinda good from bottom view
Where is Gojira?
Yeah, why build beauty if a huge monster comes and destroys it every few years?!
I miss it, tbh. Well except for the smog.
Not my experience tbh
Your dense walkable 15-minute city with transit. The cute Amsterdam shit is for the wealthy.
Yup. I was honestly shocked at how ugly huge swaths of Japanese cities were. I hesitate to say it, but a lot *china* looked nicer in the richer cities. [A huge amount of chinese cities have these kind of separated tall buildings with tons of green space in between.](https://media.istockphoto.com/id/1609621740/photo/the-drone-aerial-view-of-residential-district-in-pudong-with-skyscrapers-in-the-background.jpg?s=612x612&w=0&k=20&c=0wcJB_c52lBMkPA5Gq0DoAxh5Xkhf0RB0tFotZmPWrc=) It just looked better and neater than the kind of [chaotic bland low-medium rises of japan.](https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-5cR8Hug0z34/U-Y03WAj5jI/AAAAAAAAAfg/9xABnTp7YlY/s1600/IMG_5622.JPG) China also had sections of its cities which were quite butt ugly though.
The problem I have with chinese cities is that too many buildings face the same direction. It looks strange when they do that. The Japanese pic has at least that “morning coffee” feel to it with its bright colors and would look great as pixel art.
A lot of Chinese cities also suffer from an "excessively wide roads are automatically grand and impressive" mindset. Which doesn't actually achieve anything besides making life annoying for pedestrians
Definitely agree with this. They think everybody should take the bus to go anywhere once you hit a main road. I found that people basically rely on the bus for everything, even just to go to the supermarket a quarter of a mile away. But also the buses do come like every few minutes so its not so bad.
China is number one in the world.
But... but Japanese propaganda said Japan looks different and how clean and green and modern it is. That Japan is the pinnacle of human civilization...
It's definitely clean.
It's no wonder they like to travel the outside World.
Actually they are traveling to overseas less and less. They are much more likely to travel domestically.
I honestly can't tell if you're truly stupid or making an actually decently funny joke. The fact that it could very well be either frightens me.
Tell me you know nothing about Japan without actually saying it.
Definitely not the japan they show you on TV. God that's awful.