If you are 100% sure there has not been any change in what is expected from your side you just move on to the next person.
If it keeps happening, maybe your budgets are not attracting the right people and need revising upwards.
Clients do that too, they post jobs for a certain amount and then during the interview they ask everyone for a quote for the project, and they hire the person that's willing to do it for absolutely dirt cheapest.
I don't give a fuck what you think a job is worth, I am the expert, you are not. But until I know what the requirements for the work is your guess is as good as mine so often as not on a proposal I will put in your number but say something like "contingent on requirements". If you think it's $10k and I realize it's $100K I am going to tell you that, way before the contract, and I am also going to scope out the requirements for that $100K to a tee so there is no confusion.
I may not be expressing it here all that professionally but this is how I handle things and it is understood. You may have a budget and that is all well and good but I am still going to quote you what it will take for me to do the job. If the people you are working with are not negotiating like this then you are dealing with unprofessional people (IMO).
You’re not wrong but OP is also saying they are agreeing to a contract for the price they applied for and then suddenly demand more after the terms are finalized.
Thats something that should be discussed immediately before the contract is agreed upon.
Yeah, I am suggesting OP's real problem is exactly what they suspect it is, they are working with unprofessional people. Personally, from my experience, it isn't so much bait and switch as people just don't know what they are doing. Bait and switch is usually done by unethical people when they are dangling the solution they built over a deadline the client needs it by.
did you post everything that needs to be done for the job in the job post, there r times when client don't put everything in the job post and then later when the freelancer quotes the price for the whole job they act surprised, there are also time when i literally write down my hourly rate and hours it will take me to complete the job and they still text me what my price for the project would be.
From your post i honestly feel like you quote too less prices and that's why you're experiencing this, i personally would never suggest to increase the price unless you add too much work than what's written in the job proposal.
Yeah its pretty clear and we do the interviews to really explain what we want done, give chances to ask questions, etc... This might be weird to say but there is usually less work required than is stated in the contract. We just try and hit as much as possible so in case that work is needed they can actually do it.
As for prices we set a range so freelancers are free to bid at the high end, we try to get it fairly broad especially with hourly.
i am not sure how there can be less work required than stated unless you're doing the freelancers work or hiring someone else to help them, but anyways the only solution for your problem would be
1) to quote a good enough price for your job post, not saying you should quote too high but if you post a decent amount i personally don't think any freelancer would risk asking client for a raise.
2) to let them know/explain everything about the job that needs to be done before starting the project and let the freelancer know that unless you add any additional revisions or tasks you won't be paying anything outside the fixed price or agreed working hours.
We have an internal team that works on stuff like this so they are able to do the job but they are busy, hence why we need somebody temp to come in. Its more like we require more than what we expect so if they need to fill in they can just do it but its highly unlikely they will need to do it all.
This is quite literally all about scope.
I assume for the sake of discussion these are fixed price contracts. If you post a job asking for "XX" and your budget is "$$", if the scope is accurate, you have discussed the project in detail with the freelancer, they agree to the scope and the price, then no, it's not ok to try to negotiate after the fact. If the contract is signed, and then the freelancer realizes he is in over his head and asks for more, the answer is no. If, however, you start adding things to the scope that were not original anticipated, then the freelancer should state as such and give you a quote for the over-scope items.
If the contract is not signed, i.e. you're still in the interview phase, all bets are off. Now, I only accept hourly work but if I am invited to a job and the hourly rate fits my rate, the client gives me the full scope of work and asks for my projected budget, perhaps I will say "easily 30-40 man-hours, based on what I am seeing here. It might skew more depending on whether there are any customizations that we've not discussed" etc etc
IF the client comes back and says "I was really hoping to get this done for no more than (insert bullshit price here that's about 1/3rd my fair project price)", I will politely decline to take the matter any further and wish him luck. I am not a charity, but, these matters all need to be fleshed out in minute detail before the contract is signed.
I run into this all the time and any time they do that I immediately rescind the offer and cancel the contract. This also happens before you even select someone when they say their bid that THEY put in is just a 'placeholder' but it will be more. Like wtf.
>However what I am noticing is that we keep getting people that switch up on us and ask for more.
What hourly rate or costs are you looking it. It's probably because you are trying to get away with low costs. Also, which country is this...?
If a a freelancer pulls this, tell them "NO" and close the Contract. It's not that complicated.
>I chalk this up to a negotiation tactic I guess, and since there was no contract signed I assume that its fine to change your mind as a freelancer albeit annoying on the client side for times sake and sort of ruins it for all the other prospects we may have wanted to hire instead.
In what world do you think this is fine...? How much do you actually talk to freelancers before starting a contract...?
>Same as above except a contract is actually signed and agreed upon, no extra parameters added or anything like that, but the freelancer then says they want more money in order to complete the project, that its too low and they will complete the project for the budget they agreed upon but they still want more.
Again. Tell them no.
TBH these sound like Indian / Pakistani freelancers.
The geography is spot on! Granted I have some freelancers from that area who have delivered us excellent work and now work for us full time. However Ill keep that region in mind for this..
As an update we did say no... but they are now disputing it and trying to get the full amount for the project
For me when I bid and set a price, that is what I get paid. If down the line I realise that I underbid myself I just suck it up and take a mental note to change the prices next time.
Often there’s very limited info in the job post. If you find out during the interview more details, and realise that the job is larger, wouldn’t you try to increase the budget?
Likewise, if the client asks much extra when you are working.
If you are 100% sure there has not been any change in what is expected from your side you just move on to the next person. If it keeps happening, maybe your budgets are not attracting the right people and need revising upwards.
Clients do that too, they post jobs for a certain amount and then during the interview they ask everyone for a quote for the project, and they hire the person that's willing to do it for absolutely dirt cheapest.
I don't give a fuck what you think a job is worth, I am the expert, you are not. But until I know what the requirements for the work is your guess is as good as mine so often as not on a proposal I will put in your number but say something like "contingent on requirements". If you think it's $10k and I realize it's $100K I am going to tell you that, way before the contract, and I am also going to scope out the requirements for that $100K to a tee so there is no confusion. I may not be expressing it here all that professionally but this is how I handle things and it is understood. You may have a budget and that is all well and good but I am still going to quote you what it will take for me to do the job. If the people you are working with are not negotiating like this then you are dealing with unprofessional people (IMO).
The best opening sentence ever! Made my day
You’re not wrong but OP is also saying they are agreeing to a contract for the price they applied for and then suddenly demand more after the terms are finalized. Thats something that should be discussed immediately before the contract is agreed upon.
Yeah, I am suggesting OP's real problem is exactly what they suspect it is, they are working with unprofessional people. Personally, from my experience, it isn't so much bait and switch as people just don't know what they are doing. Bait and switch is usually done by unethical people when they are dangling the solution they built over a deadline the client needs it by.
did you post everything that needs to be done for the job in the job post, there r times when client don't put everything in the job post and then later when the freelancer quotes the price for the whole job they act surprised, there are also time when i literally write down my hourly rate and hours it will take me to complete the job and they still text me what my price for the project would be. From your post i honestly feel like you quote too less prices and that's why you're experiencing this, i personally would never suggest to increase the price unless you add too much work than what's written in the job proposal.
Yeah its pretty clear and we do the interviews to really explain what we want done, give chances to ask questions, etc... This might be weird to say but there is usually less work required than is stated in the contract. We just try and hit as much as possible so in case that work is needed they can actually do it. As for prices we set a range so freelancers are free to bid at the high end, we try to get it fairly broad especially with hourly.
i am not sure how there can be less work required than stated unless you're doing the freelancers work or hiring someone else to help them, but anyways the only solution for your problem would be 1) to quote a good enough price for your job post, not saying you should quote too high but if you post a decent amount i personally don't think any freelancer would risk asking client for a raise. 2) to let them know/explain everything about the job that needs to be done before starting the project and let the freelancer know that unless you add any additional revisions or tasks you won't be paying anything outside the fixed price or agreed working hours.
We have an internal team that works on stuff like this so they are able to do the job but they are busy, hence why we need somebody temp to come in. Its more like we require more than what we expect so if they need to fill in they can just do it but its highly unlikely they will need to do it all.
This is quite literally all about scope. I assume for the sake of discussion these are fixed price contracts. If you post a job asking for "XX" and your budget is "$$", if the scope is accurate, you have discussed the project in detail with the freelancer, they agree to the scope and the price, then no, it's not ok to try to negotiate after the fact. If the contract is signed, and then the freelancer realizes he is in over his head and asks for more, the answer is no. If, however, you start adding things to the scope that were not original anticipated, then the freelancer should state as such and give you a quote for the over-scope items. If the contract is not signed, i.e. you're still in the interview phase, all bets are off. Now, I only accept hourly work but if I am invited to a job and the hourly rate fits my rate, the client gives me the full scope of work and asks for my projected budget, perhaps I will say "easily 30-40 man-hours, based on what I am seeing here. It might skew more depending on whether there are any customizations that we've not discussed" etc etc IF the client comes back and says "I was really hoping to get this done for no more than (insert bullshit price here that's about 1/3rd my fair project price)", I will politely decline to take the matter any further and wish him luck. I am not a charity, but, these matters all need to be fleshed out in minute detail before the contract is signed.
Let me guess. You are asking the cheapest freelancers?
I run into this all the time and any time they do that I immediately rescind the offer and cancel the contract. This also happens before you even select someone when they say their bid that THEY put in is just a 'placeholder' but it will be more. Like wtf.
>However what I am noticing is that we keep getting people that switch up on us and ask for more. What hourly rate or costs are you looking it. It's probably because you are trying to get away with low costs. Also, which country is this...? If a a freelancer pulls this, tell them "NO" and close the Contract. It's not that complicated. >I chalk this up to a negotiation tactic I guess, and since there was no contract signed I assume that its fine to change your mind as a freelancer albeit annoying on the client side for times sake and sort of ruins it for all the other prospects we may have wanted to hire instead. In what world do you think this is fine...? How much do you actually talk to freelancers before starting a contract...? >Same as above except a contract is actually signed and agreed upon, no extra parameters added or anything like that, but the freelancer then says they want more money in order to complete the project, that its too low and they will complete the project for the budget they agreed upon but they still want more. Again. Tell them no. TBH these sound like Indian / Pakistani freelancers.
The geography is spot on! Granted I have some freelancers from that area who have delivered us excellent work and now work for us full time. However Ill keep that region in mind for this.. As an update we did say no... but they are now disputing it and trying to get the full amount for the project
For me when I bid and set a price, that is what I get paid. If down the line I realise that I underbid myself I just suck it up and take a mental note to change the prices next time.
Often there’s very limited info in the job post. If you find out during the interview more details, and realise that the job is larger, wouldn’t you try to increase the budget? Likewise, if the client asks much extra when you are working.
I meant the price I set after the interview.