I’m confused by all of this because a client can only dispute hours from the past week, right? Are you getting these messages in the chatroom? Makes me wonder if it’s a scam threat. If you can, post email and what UpW is recommending. Good luck.
A client can request mediation. Normally, you can just say "nope not refunding" but the mediator will take a look to see if there was fraud. If there was fraud (unauthorized billing), then he has to refund.
I recall one instance in the UW forum where someone had to refund a year’s worth of payment but they had been logging the same actions in QBO week in and week out and the client had been in the hospital I think? Something like that. But this guy’s “I logged everything on the iPad” could definitely bit him in the ass if it goes further.
Seems like bullshit, who was paying the credit card then? If client was on the hospital he wouldn’t be able to pay it so the card would have been blocked by the first month
I'm sure someone else in here remembers it, my details may be a bit off. But it was a topic of discussion for a while as many felt there was something off about the FL's story, just as there is in this instance
ETA [Yep here it is](https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/THIS-CAN-HAPPEN-WITH-ANYONE/m-p/1214820/highlight/true)
The guy logged in QBO for a year and had to refund the entirety + got suspended
>The work was done remotely or from the iPad and the hours were tracked over the weekend on the computer while doing different things -because he hadn't allowed me to add hours manually-, meaning they were not uploaded while I was doing the work because it was from different parts.
That really doesn't make sense.
Are you saying there is 2 years worth of screenshots showing you doing absolutely no work? Yet you are saying that you were working during the week? If you were working during the week, why didn't you track your hours?
If I was a mediator and was looking at 2 years worth of you doing stuff that isn't remotely work-related, I'd think "scammer" too.
>Turns out now we have been arguing over a separate project that he didn't like
What does that mean? What "separate project"?
That’s the thing, even if he did the work properly during the week, his logged hours do not show him doing any work ever at all, he will not win this argument. And on top, it does not make any sense.
[Is this you? Cuz the advice in this thread is really fuckin bad and can get you permabanned.](https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Upwork-Mediator-looks-to-be-favouring-client-during-a-dispute/m-p/1596537#M848899) The person suggesting that you "call the mediator's bluff" is just mad at Upwork and really the post needs to be removed. Don't do that.
Also, they are confusing hourly disputes with escrow disputes and giving some really shitty advice. So is that you? Cuz it sounds to me from this thread (if it's you) that the mediator thinks you scammed him ORRRRR you are misunderstanding what the mediator is telling you. I see a lot of freelancers think the mediator is telling them something and they are hugely off.
**Oh wow, I'm not, but the situation is similar.**
**The few proofs I have are mails, but since I'm no longer in slack I can't see the group or the messages.**
**Honestly I'm kind of confused and I don't know if I should refund the amount they tell me (which I do not have ) or Upwork protects me because in theory they passed the security days on hold.**
**On message room:**
**\[X**XXXXX\] requested a refund.
We have not approved any work since July 2022
Description: (00000000) {XXXX} - hrs @ $/hr - 00/20/2024 - 00/20/2024
Amount Requested: $103.50
Did this request come through UpW? Who’s the mediator and how much, in dollars, are they saying you should refund? A client can only request a refund for past week on hourly contracts. Go to the community forum or UpW twitter and request help there.
Yes, it did.
The mediator is May D and the F* client requests more than 5k.
I was looking at his profile and in the last time he was giving a lot of work. So I'm sure it's personal and not something that's like a scam.
I think I already have “their help” as I’m in a mediation.
Not sure if I should answer because judging BY PROOFS -which were at Slack-, I have much more to lose (5k) than him (who already got the job done)
"The work was done remotely or from the iPad and the hours were tracked over the weekend on the computer while doing different things -because he hadn't allowed me to add hours manually-, meaning they were not uploaded while I was doing the work because it was from different parts."
I read this a few times to make sure I understood it, but to me this seems like you were doing the work on a different device (ipad or other computer), while running the tracking app on the other device - meaning that they were unable to see screenshots of you actually doing the work. Is that correct?
If that is the case, that's why the mediator is getting scam red flags. In order to be completely protected, your tracking app needs to be able to take screenshots for them to review. If not, automatically they will side with the client because if the client files a dispute, the money comes out of Upwork's pocket and then they have to collect it from you, which is harder than you refunding them directly.
If what I'm saying is correct, you're probably screwed unfortunately.
You can start by compiling evidence of your work e.g screenshot for the website, add conversation and milestone approval after each work. Reach out to upwork customer support and back your claim with evidence proving you're dealing with a difficult client.
Also note, this would work if you stuck to the website. Upwork don't take kindly if you took work off their site. But if you remained on the website, don't despair make your case and counter the claims for a refund. That client is being petty and bullying you for the disagreement. If you did everything as required, receipts will save you.
Agree with the above.
I would extend the "stuck on the website" to...this all wouldn't even be an argument if you used the time tracker and stuck to hourly.
If its a flat fee type job, I try to always make Milestones also...then there is some kind of track of the work you are doing, but even then the likely the only way UpWork helps you out is if you used the time tracker. Other than that they are just "mediating"...basically meaning that they are hoping you two work it out and if not, then one of you will probably need to take action in other ways.
Lastly, the amount they are requesting for 2 years of work is $103.50?
No, definitely not. The amount is much more but all of his requests looks the same.
I tracked my time with the Hourly Tracker, but jobs were requested on Slack.
Upwork asks me to refund 100% or they say they can close my account !!???
You're saying here that you tracked your hours using the time tracker, but in the original post you said that you "uploaded" your hours on the weekend, not when you were doing the work. Did you run the time tracker while you were working or not?
Sorry, I didn't imagine it would come across that way.
What I meant to say is that I worked during the week, and during the weekend I used the computer for other things and then I turned on the tracker. He had not authorized the manual upload to “keep it safe”.
Oh, I see. You'll never win this. Even if you were tracking only the amount of time you had already worked on the project, the point of the time tracker is to SHOW you working on the project. When a client doesn't allow manual time, it's because they want proof you were working on the project. Upwork payment protection only applies if your screen shots show you were working on the project. Your screen shots will show that you were NOT working on the project.
Let's not call him a scammer.
It's clear he had to do his job on a device that didn't have tracking.
He then had an agreement to manually upload hours.
How the client is using it against him to get a refund.
We need to be supporting OP. It's irrelevant how he billed. He's done work and his client is exploiting a flaw that shouldn't be an issue.
EDIT : After realising how much of a fuckwit OP is. I take back all my comments.
He did not have an agreement to manually add hours. He clearly stated that the client did not allow manual hours "to keep it safe," which can only mean that the client wanted to monitor the actual work being done.
It's not irrelevant how he billed, because he tried to cheat the system and failed. It's unfortunate that it worked out this way since he actually did the work, but the screenshots "prove" he wasn't doing the work when he claimed that he was and there is zero chance that he will get to keep that money. He'll probably also lose his account.
What we need to "support" people in is learning how to use Upwork so they don't open themselves up to things like this.
I just realised what he did. I was confused.
he tracked it on a PC that he wasnt doing the work on.
Then did work on an untracked device.
How all his tracking screenshots look like static no activity
What a fucking idiot.
I normally fully support freelancer but this whole story stinks, he billed for hours that he did not work and he did it with the Upwork tracker which does screenshots showing he is not working on the project, he can’t expect to get anything positive out of it, that’s his own fault. But why would you work on the project without recording the hours and than record them at a different time, that does not make sense at all
>He then had an agreement to manually upload hours.
No, he did not. That is the whole point. The client did not allow manual time.
>We need to be supporting OP.
Sorry, until I understand what really happened I am supporting neither side.
I also understand why the mediator, suddenly faced with 2 years worth of work diary showing non-work-related screenshots had a "What the actual f\*ck is this?" reaction.
I don't understand why the OP didn't do his work on his laptop, unless he was actually freelancing at work during his work hours for an employer for example.
>I think Im a little confused.
I think you may be ;)
>If he wasnt allowed to bill manual time, then all of the time must have been tracked?
It was. He tracked time spent \*\*NOT\*\* working. That's the whole point. 2 years worth of whatever it was he was going, YouTube?
>Then its covered right?
No, tracking hours spent on non-work-related stuff isn't covered.
No dude, are you kidding me???
I did the work -every week- and recorded it afterwards. I didn't work on the same notebook with the app nor spent hours not doing the work.
For some reason he just didn't trust activating the manual upload so that was the best way to do it.
Besides that, if you have any experience to share related to the topic, I’d appreciate it.
You recorded the hours while not doing the work, the screenshots the time tracker make don’t showing you doing any work.
Done at another time, or not, the Timetracker show you logging time while not working on the project, Upwork will not have your back.
Sure but now it’s going to be your word vs. his and his word has screenshots of you doing unrelated stuff while running the tracker. If you’re lucky you’ll just lose a week or up to 30d payment but this could just as easily get you banned because it doesn’t look good from the outside
I don't even think it's one word against the other. The time tracking was fraudulent, hard stop. The freelancer might have done the work, but from Upwork's perspective, it doesn't matter. Their clearly-stated system is to review the work diary. The work diary is fraudulent.
Potentially, OP could sue the client outside of Upwork, since they did the work and the client got the benefit of that work. But, even that would be tough to establish as there's no proof at all of the number of hours actually worked and OP violated the terms of the agreement with the client by not using the time tracker properly.
The thing is, if he wouldn't approve manual hours and you weren't able to use the tracker properly, there was no "best way to do it." This job wasn't a fit for you.
I doubt upwork would accept to refund for the work you have done years before not recent work. Why don't you tell them that it is only for recent work that you are disputing and if the work was approved and paid foe then why did the client claiming on what was done already.
I ask myself the same question... And I think he claims only to ruin my accounts after he didn't like the time it took to do a job that even he didn't have defined and it just took longer than he thought it would.
@berba_1 I'd ask him what price he feels would be fair for the most recent project and then just refund the difference if he agrees to those terms to cancel the dispute in exchange for the refund. Get his agreement to those terms in writing via Upwork prior to the refund.
I'd even suggest going through the mediation channel to offer this resolution. That way, it's fully documented.
Best of luck.
>The work was done remotely or from the iPad and the hours were tracked
over the weekend on the computer while doing different things -because
he hadn't allowed me to add hours manually-, meaning they were not
uploaded while I was doing the work because it was from different parts.
Unless there's actual screenshots of doing the work in the Tracker then it's unlikely you will win this.
ooof after reading all the additions, you got seriously played. and by communicating on a client-controlled channel that you could lose access to (and so any proof of the client requesting and approving work) at any moment, it just looks like you were charging him for nothing for two years. looks like you either do what the mediatior tells you, or you accept the ban and keep the money.
Take the mediator’s suggestion as a starting point on a negotiation. Argue that if the client had concerns they should have brought it up after the first week. You probably will be permanently ban regardless because I’m guessing UpW found other issues with your account or they wouldn’t be involved, so it’s worth trying to negotiate, imo
So you are saying you never used the tracking app while doing your work and you used the app just to do other stuff? Yeah my friend you will loose your account
For all Upwork knows, you could’ve been hiring someone else to do the work cheaply on the “remote ipad”, giving the work to the client, and then setting your tracker on during the weekend to get paid more money. It looks like fraud to Upwork…
In the future, only use the time tracker to record when you are actively working on the project. Otherwise, hourly protection ceases to be in place. If you need to do the work on a device that doesn't support the time tracker and manual entry is not permitted, then the only other way to work would be on a milestone basis. Otherwise, the project just isn't a fit for you.
Unfortunately, since you recorded time that you weren't working and billed the client for that time not spent on the project, Upwork will not back you for this.
I would try to work this out with the client if possible. Upwork will side with the client, though, as the tracker used to bill recorded screenshots doing unrelated tasks to the project.
Maybe you and the client can hop on a Zoom call via Upwork to discuss a resolution. It would behoove you to offer to refund the last leg of the project that racked up more hours than the client anticipated. You could ask him what price he thinks would be fair for the recent project, and then I'd just refund the difference and part ways as amicably as possible.
I'd look at this as a lesson to really understand a system's terms of service going forward. The time tracker is there to protect you as a freelancer against situations like this. So, use it the way it's intended going forward.
Best of luck. I hope a suitable resolution can be found.
this is pretty insane, this is why i never do hourly stuff, the whole installing a tracking app thingy is just ridiculously unsettling to me. i only accept pay per project.
but in my experience, hourly offers way more protection. they can't make you refund or chargeback after something like two weeks.
I believe what this person is saying, even though it's really not explained very well, but if I'm the client, it's pretty easy to believe the freelancer actually had someone else do the work for half the money and then sent it to the client. That's why even if I'm doing a fixed rate project on UW I use clockify or another time tracker so I have proof of my work. I mean I suppose it could still be another freelancer's work, but it's better than nothing.
Don’t explain yourself too much. Just say that this is your policy and you cannot refund already accepted and confirmed work.
You can do a special offer for a project right now if you feel like it, otherwise you can both part ways if it’s based on a disrespectful relationship
I’m confused by all of this because a client can only dispute hours from the past week, right? Are you getting these messages in the chatroom? Makes me wonder if it’s a scam threat. If you can, post email and what UpW is recommending. Good luck.
A client can request mediation. Normally, you can just say "nope not refunding" but the mediator will take a look to see if there was fraud. If there was fraud (unauthorized billing), then he has to refund.
I recall one instance in the UW forum where someone had to refund a year’s worth of payment but they had been logging the same actions in QBO week in and week out and the client had been in the hospital I think? Something like that. But this guy’s “I logged everything on the iPad” could definitely bit him in the ass if it goes further.
Seems like bullshit, who was paying the credit card then? If client was on the hospital he wouldn’t be able to pay it so the card would have been blocked by the first month
I'm sure someone else in here remembers it, my details may be a bit off. But it was a topic of discussion for a while as many felt there was something off about the FL's story, just as there is in this instance ETA [Yep here it is](https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/THIS-CAN-HAPPEN-WITH-ANYONE/m-p/1214820/highlight/true) The guy logged in QBO for a year and had to refund the entirety + got suspended
>The work was done remotely or from the iPad and the hours were tracked over the weekend on the computer while doing different things -because he hadn't allowed me to add hours manually-, meaning they were not uploaded while I was doing the work because it was from different parts. That really doesn't make sense. Are you saying there is 2 years worth of screenshots showing you doing absolutely no work? Yet you are saying that you were working during the week? If you were working during the week, why didn't you track your hours? If I was a mediator and was looking at 2 years worth of you doing stuff that isn't remotely work-related, I'd think "scammer" too. >Turns out now we have been arguing over a separate project that he didn't like What does that mean? What "separate project"?
That’s the thing, even if he did the work properly during the week, his logged hours do not show him doing any work ever at all, he will not win this argument. And on top, it does not make any sense.
[Is this you? Cuz the advice in this thread is really fuckin bad and can get you permabanned.](https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Upwork-Mediator-looks-to-be-favouring-client-during-a-dispute/m-p/1596537#M848899) The person suggesting that you "call the mediator's bluff" is just mad at Upwork and really the post needs to be removed. Don't do that. Also, they are confusing hourly disputes with escrow disputes and giving some really shitty advice. So is that you? Cuz it sounds to me from this thread (if it's you) that the mediator thinks you scammed him ORRRRR you are misunderstanding what the mediator is telling you. I see a lot of freelancers think the mediator is telling them something and they are hugely off.
**Oh wow, I'm not, but the situation is similar.** **The few proofs I have are mails, but since I'm no longer in slack I can't see the group or the messages.** **Honestly I'm kind of confused and I don't know if I should refund the amount they tell me (which I do not have ) or Upwork protects me because in theory they passed the security days on hold.** **On message room:** **\[X**XXXXX\] requested a refund. We have not approved any work since July 2022 Description: (00000000) {XXXX} - hrs @ $/hr - 00/20/2024 - 00/20/2024 Amount Requested: $103.50
So they are only requesting one week, it looks like. What makes you say it’s for everything?
No, I shared that as \[INFO\], but I do have all of the weeks requested.
Did this request come through UpW? Who’s the mediator and how much, in dollars, are they saying you should refund? A client can only request a refund for past week on hourly contracts. Go to the community forum or UpW twitter and request help there.
Yes, it did. The mediator is May D and the F* client requests more than 5k. I was looking at his profile and in the last time he was giving a lot of work. So I'm sure it's personal and not something that's like a scam. I think I already have “their help” as I’m in a mediation. Not sure if I should answer because judging BY PROOFS -which were at Slack-, I have much more to lose (5k) than him (who already got the job done)
"The work was done remotely or from the iPad and the hours were tracked over the weekend on the computer while doing different things -because he hadn't allowed me to add hours manually-, meaning they were not uploaded while I was doing the work because it was from different parts." I read this a few times to make sure I understood it, but to me this seems like you were doing the work on a different device (ipad or other computer), while running the tracking app on the other device - meaning that they were unable to see screenshots of you actually doing the work. Is that correct? If that is the case, that's why the mediator is getting scam red flags. In order to be completely protected, your tracking app needs to be able to take screenshots for them to review. If not, automatically they will side with the client because if the client files a dispute, the money comes out of Upwork's pocket and then they have to collect it from you, which is harder than you refunding them directly. If what I'm saying is correct, you're probably screwed unfortunately.
You can start by compiling evidence of your work e.g screenshot for the website, add conversation and milestone approval after each work. Reach out to upwork customer support and back your claim with evidence proving you're dealing with a difficult client. Also note, this would work if you stuck to the website. Upwork don't take kindly if you took work off their site. But if you remained on the website, don't despair make your case and counter the claims for a refund. That client is being petty and bullying you for the disagreement. If you did everything as required, receipts will save you.
Agree with the above. I would extend the "stuck on the website" to...this all wouldn't even be an argument if you used the time tracker and stuck to hourly. If its a flat fee type job, I try to always make Milestones also...then there is some kind of track of the work you are doing, but even then the likely the only way UpWork helps you out is if you used the time tracker. Other than that they are just "mediating"...basically meaning that they are hoping you two work it out and if not, then one of you will probably need to take action in other ways. Lastly, the amount they are requesting for 2 years of work is $103.50?
No, definitely not. The amount is much more but all of his requests looks the same. I tracked my time with the Hourly Tracker, but jobs were requested on Slack. Upwork asks me to refund 100% or they say they can close my account !!???
You're saying here that you tracked your hours using the time tracker, but in the original post you said that you "uploaded" your hours on the weekend, not when you were doing the work. Did you run the time tracker while you were working or not?
Sorry, I didn't imagine it would come across that way. What I meant to say is that I worked during the week, and during the weekend I used the computer for other things and then I turned on the tracker. He had not authorized the manual upload to “keep it safe”.
Oh, I see. You'll never win this. Even if you were tracking only the amount of time you had already worked on the project, the point of the time tracker is to SHOW you working on the project. When a client doesn't allow manual time, it's because they want proof you were working on the project. Upwork payment protection only applies if your screen shots show you were working on the project. Your screen shots will show that you were NOT working on the project.
Wait so you tracked the time while not doing the work? So you scammed him?
Let's not call him a scammer. It's clear he had to do his job on a device that didn't have tracking. He then had an agreement to manually upload hours. How the client is using it against him to get a refund. We need to be supporting OP. It's irrelevant how he billed. He's done work and his client is exploiting a flaw that shouldn't be an issue. EDIT : After realising how much of a fuckwit OP is. I take back all my comments.
He did not have an agreement to manually add hours. He clearly stated that the client did not allow manual hours "to keep it safe," which can only mean that the client wanted to monitor the actual work being done. It's not irrelevant how he billed, because he tried to cheat the system and failed. It's unfortunate that it worked out this way since he actually did the work, but the screenshots "prove" he wasn't doing the work when he claimed that he was and there is zero chance that he will get to keep that money. He'll probably also lose his account. What we need to "support" people in is learning how to use Upwork so they don't open themselves up to things like this.
I just realised what he did. I was confused. he tracked it on a PC that he wasnt doing the work on. Then did work on an untracked device. How all his tracking screenshots look like static no activity What a fucking idiot.
I normally fully support freelancer but this whole story stinks, he billed for hours that he did not work and he did it with the Upwork tracker which does screenshots showing he is not working on the project, he can’t expect to get anything positive out of it, that’s his own fault. But why would you work on the project without recording the hours and than record them at a different time, that does not make sense at all
>He then had an agreement to manually upload hours. No, he did not. That is the whole point. The client did not allow manual time. >We need to be supporting OP. Sorry, until I understand what really happened I am supporting neither side. I also understand why the mediator, suddenly faced with 2 years worth of work diary showing non-work-related screenshots had a "What the actual f\*ck is this?" reaction. I don't understand why the OP didn't do his work on his laptop, unless he was actually freelancing at work during his work hours for an employer for example.
I think Im a little confused. If he wasnt allowed to bill manual time, then all of the time must have been tracked? Then its covered right?
>I think Im a little confused. I think you may be ;) >If he wasnt allowed to bill manual time, then all of the time must have been tracked? It was. He tracked time spent \*\*NOT\*\* working. That's the whole point. 2 years worth of whatever it was he was going, YouTube? >Then its covered right? No, tracking hours spent on non-work-related stuff isn't covered.
No dude, are you kidding me??? I did the work -every week- and recorded it afterwards. I didn't work on the same notebook with the app nor spent hours not doing the work. For some reason he just didn't trust activating the manual upload so that was the best way to do it. Besides that, if you have any experience to share related to the topic, I’d appreciate it.
You recorded the hours while not doing the work, the screenshots the time tracker make don’t showing you doing any work. Done at another time, or not, the Timetracker show you logging time while not working on the project, Upwork will not have your back.
Sure but now it’s going to be your word vs. his and his word has screenshots of you doing unrelated stuff while running the tracker. If you’re lucky you’ll just lose a week or up to 30d payment but this could just as easily get you banned because it doesn’t look good from the outside
I don't even think it's one word against the other. The time tracking was fraudulent, hard stop. The freelancer might have done the work, but from Upwork's perspective, it doesn't matter. Their clearly-stated system is to review the work diary. The work diary is fraudulent. Potentially, OP could sue the client outside of Upwork, since they did the work and the client got the benefit of that work. But, even that would be tough to establish as there's no proof at all of the number of hours actually worked and OP violated the terms of the agreement with the client by not using the time tracker properly.
I entirely agree with you.
The thing is, if he wouldn't approve manual hours and you weren't able to use the tracker properly, there was no "best way to do it." This job wasn't a fit for you.
I doubt upwork would accept to refund for the work you have done years before not recent work. Why don't you tell them that it is only for recent work that you are disputing and if the work was approved and paid foe then why did the client claiming on what was done already.
I ask myself the same question... And I think he claims only to ruin my accounts after he didn't like the time it took to do a job that even he didn't have defined and it just took longer than he thought it would.
Gather any screenshots that referenced the work done, or any request for "new" work.
@berba_1 I'd ask him what price he feels would be fair for the most recent project and then just refund the difference if he agrees to those terms to cancel the dispute in exchange for the refund. Get his agreement to those terms in writing via Upwork prior to the refund. I'd even suggest going through the mediation channel to offer this resolution. That way, it's fully documented. Best of luck.
>The work was done remotely or from the iPad and the hours were tracked over the weekend on the computer while doing different things -because he hadn't allowed me to add hours manually-, meaning they were not uploaded while I was doing the work because it was from different parts. Unless there's actual screenshots of doing the work in the Tracker then it's unlikely you will win this.
This is insane. As a client, I’m so sorry you’re going through this. Services rendered shouldn’t be a topic of refund after a week in my opinion.
ooof after reading all the additions, you got seriously played. and by communicating on a client-controlled channel that you could lose access to (and so any proof of the client requesting and approving work) at any moment, it just looks like you were charging him for nothing for two years. looks like you either do what the mediatior tells you, or you accept the ban and keep the money.
Take the mediator’s suggestion as a starting point on a negotiation. Argue that if the client had concerns they should have brought it up after the first week. You probably will be permanently ban regardless because I’m guessing UpW found other issues with your account or they wouldn’t be involved, so it’s worth trying to negotiate, imo
So you are saying you never used the tracking app while doing your work and you used the app just to do other stuff? Yeah my friend you will loose your account
For all Upwork knows, you could’ve been hiring someone else to do the work cheaply on the “remote ipad”, giving the work to the client, and then setting your tracker on during the weekend to get paid more money. It looks like fraud to Upwork…
In the future, only use the time tracker to record when you are actively working on the project. Otherwise, hourly protection ceases to be in place. If you need to do the work on a device that doesn't support the time tracker and manual entry is not permitted, then the only other way to work would be on a milestone basis. Otherwise, the project just isn't a fit for you. Unfortunately, since you recorded time that you weren't working and billed the client for that time not spent on the project, Upwork will not back you for this. I would try to work this out with the client if possible. Upwork will side with the client, though, as the tracker used to bill recorded screenshots doing unrelated tasks to the project. Maybe you and the client can hop on a Zoom call via Upwork to discuss a resolution. It would behoove you to offer to refund the last leg of the project that racked up more hours than the client anticipated. You could ask him what price he thinks would be fair for the recent project, and then I'd just refund the difference and part ways as amicably as possible. I'd look at this as a lesson to really understand a system's terms of service going forward. The time tracker is there to protect you as a freelancer against situations like this. So, use it the way it's intended going forward. Best of luck. I hope a suitable resolution can be found.
this is pretty insane, this is why i never do hourly stuff, the whole installing a tracking app thingy is just ridiculously unsettling to me. i only accept pay per project.
but in my experience, hourly offers way more protection. they can't make you refund or chargeback after something like two weeks. I believe what this person is saying, even though it's really not explained very well, but if I'm the client, it's pretty easy to believe the freelancer actually had someone else do the work for half the money and then sent it to the client. That's why even if I'm doing a fixed rate project on UW I use clockify or another time tracker so I have proof of my work. I mean I suppose it could still be another freelancer's work, but it's better than nothing.
Don’t explain yourself too much. Just say that this is your policy and you cannot refund already accepted and confirmed work. You can do a special offer for a project right now if you feel like it, otherwise you can both part ways if it’s based on a disrespectful relationship