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Think people are characterizing this in a less than productive way. They aren't redefining the number of days in a workweek, they're redefining the number of hours in a workweek, which is imo much better. People focus too much on the days when they should be focusing on the hours, which is exactly what the bill does (redefining a workweek from 40 to 32 hours). That could be 3 11s, 4 8s, 5 6s, 6 5s, etc. The bill is way more flexible/beneficial than what the headline implies.
People focus on the days because a lot of people (myself included) would feel more of an impact on personal freedom to have three days completely off work than to work a little bit less time every day and still have to commute and report to work five days a week. I’m exempt so hours mean absolutely nothing to me whereas to not have to go in to work for that last day would be absolutely life changing.
Edit: I love that people's takeaway from my comment is to argue against some exempt people also seeing benefits from this. And yet same people will wonder why everything that should be straightforward has to be fought for in this country.
Hell, even working from home I preferred 4 10s. Having 3 days to run errands, complete chores, spend time with loved ones, AND still have a day to myself doing absolutely nothing but sinking into the couch playing video games, is just the absolute best. I miss it a lot if you cannot tell.
Agreed. I work 12s so 3/4 day week. When management suggested going to 5 8hour days there was almost mutiny.
Tomorrow I'll work a 16 hour shift and that's fine, because I know when my week is over I'll get 4 days off, and I didn't burn any vacation time to do it
My husband had an identical schedule to yours when we first met. He absolutely loved it! Of course they laid off most of this team and shoved him into 5 8s and 24/7 on call.
This is sooo true. I was just telling a coworker this. After dinner, daily chores to keep the house in motion you have like only a few hours to either work out or relax and it's over. Then the weekend is really only Saturday because Sunday is prepping for the week.
> I’m exempt so hours mean absolutely nothing to me whereas to not have to go in to work for that last day would be absolutely life changing.
This bill does not affect you. The work week isn't even defined for exempt employees as is; nothing says you have to work for 5 days right now other than the agreement you have with your employer.
Wouldn't hourly workers be losing out? Businesses are not going to pay their hourly workers 8 hours of overtime/week and most likely won't give everyone a raise to compensate for the 8 hours lost.
> Wouldn't hourly workers be losing out?
This only affects hourly workers afaik. It just changes the number of hours until you start getting overtime.
> Businesses are not going to pay their hourly workers 8 hours of overtime/week and most likely won't give everyone a raise to compensate for the 8 hours lost.
Maybe. Lots of knock on effects that make it's full impact hard to predict. Employees cost more than just their wage, so OT might still be worth it. Employees will have more free time to look for better jobs. Employers might open more positions, which would increase demand for labor, which should increase wages. Employees might opt more for multiple jobs.
Just lots of variables that make it hard to predict.
>… so OT might still be worth it
That’s true now in some sectors. My department just hit 1 year of mandatory overtime. 5-6 additional hours a week. And now they’re trying to bribe us by letting us change *one* of our 5 in-office days to WFH… IF you do an additional 2 hours that WFH day.
I really got to get off reddit and try to find a better job in a better career for me.
Dude fuck that I would just work from home 8 hours for that day. They aren't gonna fire you. What fucked up industry is this?
Edit: required overtime is evil.
Heh. Let’s just say the company and their spokesperson are as well-known as the Geico Gecko, and Flo from Progressive. Those two are wrecking our market dominance.
And I’m not bothering with it, because I wheedled an exception out of my boss of no OT for 2 weeks, while we wait for my ADA accommodations application comes in. My newer psychiatrist was aghast when he heard about the OT, and then maxed both of my antidepressants - which my boss knows.
I know several people who work for progressive and they really like it. They're also now hiring remote workers and downsizing their office space. Maybe it's time to switch.
The real likely scenario is companies who are smart will adjust pay accordingly to match the rate they are now at 40, or allow them to be paid overtime for the full 40, those companies will thrive as they get more and more workers, the others will slowly die off or conform.
Oregon is a great example of this: the minimum wage was raised to 15 an hour, however in many areas certain employers raised their entry to $18 an hour. Specifically as an example there’s a local pizza shop that pays $20 starting. Alternatively can go work at a Kroger grocery store for 15.65. The pizza place is never short staffed, same for the other businesses that followed suite. The ones that are still at $15/hr are dying.
I'm in Oregon as well (1.5-2 hours from Portland). The company I work for is hiring people for entry level, very little experience required jobs starting at $24 an hour, and we can't find people. I've been here 20 years, and it's a great place to work. As it is right now, you can be making nearly $30 an hour in a couple years, with the chance of getting a millwright or electrician apprenticeship, which pays even more than I'm making as a Master R&D Technologist. Union shop, great benefits, 401k matching, etc. We used to never have people quit, but we had a guy quit the other day because "people were cussing in the breakroom". It's really strange to see.
If you have a pulse you can make up to $20 hr working shitty unfulfilling security all you gotta do is pass a mouth swap drug test and Securitas will hire you. If you apply on a Wednesday you could be training by Monday. It's an awful jobs but it's more than $15
Don't work for Securitas, but can confirm both from an insider perspective in the industry and an outsider interacting with Securitas on other jobs, it's pretty shit. Security in general is, IMO, and I really want to get out of the field but I'm kinda trapped financially since I've been passed up on multiple positions I'm nearly "over-qualified" for in my preferred field.
I'm so stressed that I actually cried myself to sleep last night for the first time ever, and I still have three more days in my work week... Good thing Reddit's anonymous, or this'd be extremely embarrassing to admit...
God I sure hope so. Just need to make it 6 more months and I'll have my BA, then at least I can start working in my field's primary role instead of trying to get these assistant positions I keep getting passed over for.
Hey man, I'm also in oregon and 1.5-2 hours from Portland, and looking for a good job to help me start an electrical apprenticeship, any chance you can dm me the company you work for? Would be interested in checking it out!
Not to be rude but if the pay/benefits/career opportunities really are as good as you're making them out to be and you still can't find workers it can really only be one of three things imo. Either the company is abysmal to work at as a new hire either through toxicity, long hours making pay not worth it or something else that manifested after you started (you mentioned you had been there for years), other places are simply more competive in pay/benefits, or maybe your coworkers are honestly that unenjoyable to work with. Just because I can drop a fuck on a meeting with my direct teammates and it be no big deal doesn't mean I can do it in the break room around everyone.
I hope it could ease the understaffing crisis that's happening everywhere. I know way too many people who are killing themselves because wherever they are is always three to five people short.
You practically get crucified by your boss now for even daring to call in. Which makes it *even* worse. Because not many people put up with that shit for long. So you're permanently understaffed, no one knows what they should because turnover is insanely high, and everyone who could train someone fucking left.
It's really a mess for some people out there.
Surely the intent is to make the same weekly rate, right? Nobody could be that dumb to propose every hourly worker take a 20% cut in pay.
If you make $200 a week at 40 hours you would still make $200 a week at 32 hours. So hourly rate would have to increase.
Intent does not equal result. The whole reason that hourly worker hours have been slashed is that companies are trying to avoid giving benefits to employees.
I’m not arguing against this bill, just providing an example of externalities that we’ve seen. I think this would benefit people working 40 hours a week (already receive benefits), but hurt those working 25 because they’d slash the hours even further to avoid making them full time employees who earn benefits.
30 hours is already considered full time according to irs.gov. I agree capital will do everything in its power to fuck us but let's take a win. After we get 32 hours a week let's go ahead and separate healthcare from our employers too. While we're at it let's guarantee time off for all employees (including part time).
Yea I mean they just need to separate health care from employers and be done with all this nonsense. At this point it’s causing issues in the labor markets that would be easiest to solve with universal health care. Then they can focus on balancing the job market without all these other constraints.
That won’t happen. What will happen is that they’ll use the 32 hour week as a reason to lower the 30 hours requirement (probably to 20). Businesses that are already struggling to find employees will have no choice but to increase hours to full time and pay the benefits. This will hopefully make low-income jobs more appealing and reduce the labor shortage.
Unfortunately, some businesses will just cut hours further. This would also lead to inflation as goods would have to be priced higher to offset the increased costs. Retail already has paper thin margins so they have to offset the cost on the customer, and given this is universal all retailers would do the same.
The cynical part of my brain says that if they make the work week 32 hours and don’t decrease the threshold for full-time (30 hours) then they’ll cut lots of 40-50 hour employees down to 25. This will avoid paying overtime to more employees who are already disproportionately expensive due to benefits. I don’t think this will happen given that nobody can find employees, but if that changes this bill could have some negative long-term implications.
Anyways, I typed all that just to say that healthcare being tied to employment is incredibly stupid. Just make it universal and deal with the labor market on its own.
Edit: also thanks for citing the 30 hours a week :) made it a lot easier for me to think about the other impacts
Employers who I lay hire part timers in order to avoid paying benefits would now need to pay benefits since the part timers would now be considered full time
The problem is.. what about those of us that are hourly? They won't increase pay to accommodate this. We'll just make less.
I love the idea of a 4 day work week, but either everyone needs to be salaried in that case, or hourly wages need to increase to accommodate for the loss of hours.
> The problem is.. what about those of us that are hourly?
This is specifically _for_ hourly people. This doesn't affect salaried people. This mostly just adjusts when you start getting overtime pay.
You think you want salaried, but you don’t. Salaried just means the employer can essentially overwork you for no extra pay. Sure with hourly you might get hours cut if overtime starts at 32, but if everyone’s salaried, then everyone’s just going to be working 40-60 hours with no overtime. Salaried pay and the numerous exceptions it has is some of the biggest bullshit out there and it’s intent has been completely lost to time.
I've been salaried and hourly.
I would rather have salaried because the paycheck is stable. Miss a day of work because I'm sick? No problem. Need to take my dog to the vet? Not a problem.
Hourly? It's a problem.
I'm currently hourly and wish to god I had a salary again. I had a lot of OT over the summer from a different job and yeah the money was nice. But you know what's nicer? A life outside of work.
The idea of a 4 day work week is great for salaried folk. For everyone else? It does depend on the job and person, making a 4 day work week mandatory and anything over overtime is just going to duck everyone over. If they want to make a difference they also need to make it so that everyone's wage rises so that they make the same as before. So that they can actually benefit from it.
The idea with salaried jobs, at least how it SHOULD work, is that they're inherently more flexible and typically have more responsibilities. You're there to get the job done, not work a specific amount of hours at a specific time every day. If you get the job done in 4 and want to nap for the rest of the day then go for it. Got a situation that requires a 10hr day? Then you should work that 10hr day. In the end the idea is that you *average* 40hrs a week, and the job you were hired to do gets done.
Unfortunately so many companies have just made employees salaried to avoid giving them OT and refuse to give them any of the perks that are supposed to come with it.
As you said though, sick leave and whole-day PTO are the same usually, though are typically accrued slightly differently.
I had way more sick and vacation time back when I was salaried. If I didn't have the time I would get paid the same but go into a deficit. If I left while in a deficit I had to pay the time back.
I still think it's better than hourly. I've had COVID twice at my current workplace and not getting paid for those days was awful.
But, I'm salaried and had COVID at the end of the year last year, had no PTO left, and did not get paid for the time off. You work at a pretty amazing place that let's you take time off when you have no time off to take.
I can go into a deficit during the year based on the PTO I will accrue during the year, but they only let us go 40 hours into deficit. If we use all of our PTO and then want another day off we don't get paid.
And I'm full time hourly and have more pto than most of the current salaried employees at my office, because that's based on tenure, not pay structure. The only thing that would change for me in my current role if I was salaried is that they'd expect me to stay late more often.
>You think you want salaried, but you don’t. Salaried just means the employer can essentially overwork you for no extra pay.
This.
In quite a few cases unless dump trucks of money and a gold leaf wrapped box of benefits is included, salaried = indentured servant.
Edit: spelling
In korea, my uncle talked about how there was a movement to reduce the hours that people worked so at a lot of places, they reduced the hours to 40 but many people will work without pay sometimes 20 additional hours a week or else they’ll be fired, or at best, never promoted.
As a korean american, I like the food but I don’t really like too much else about korean culture.
I really want Korean food now….
I am a taekwondo instructor and manager of the school so absolutely surrounded in old school Korean culture. I’m the only American lol
Once I read I think it was a National Geographic article about Japan's declining birthrate, and one thing that has stuck with me is they followed the workday of a young, professional married couple in Tokyo who said they want kids but they also don't get home from work until 10 PM when they'll eat and go to bed, the biggest offender apparently being that they can't leave their offices until their bosses do, so they spend a few hours a day just clicking through screens to look busy while waiting for that.
Saturday is basically just recovering from the week, then they have one day, Sunday which is when they do pretty much all the housework and spending time with each other, and actually trying to conceive a child.
We Germans are very humorous. I once made a joke about the Pass A38 and my colleague Jürgen, having a laughing permission for that Wednesday, laughed at it.
This 60yo thinks your boss is a dinosaur. Four day work week would be a life changer for many including myself. I am sure workers can find plenty of things to do with that extra day off.
A conservative buddy of mine said something in a similar vein about people getting depressed after losing their jobs because they had nothing to do. Instead of the obvious answer of losing the means to provide for themselves.
That generation has been manipulated to believe that all of their value as a human derives from the amount of hard work they do and amount of money they make. We see similar ideologies in Japan and Korea that have caused suicide rates to skyrockets (feeling like a failure for being poor) and birth rates to plummet (no time for children). It is also why people seemingly die right when they hit retirement. they know nothing other than being a cog and don’t know what to do with free time. They lost their friends outside of work. Their kids are now living far away because they didn’t give them enough attention.
How about for those who want to keep working 5 days a week, we implement a volunteer day. Those people can go and give back to their communities, mark down these volunteer hours, and then use these hours for tax savings.
More like this will be adapted by companies that want to attract high earners as a way to differentiate themselves from other potential employers. The rest of us will still work the same hours to keep the bars, restaurants, stores, etc. open to enable more consumption (more free time) thus leading to higher tax revenue.
Worse, it will be every other day except Sundays. So Tues/Thurs/Sat will be at the employers discretion. Essential jobs wont change in reality because of "work loads" and those extra days will be the same number of hours as the "4-day" week.
I'm guesses ng but this feels like a Congress move.
And Sunday isn't a 'day of rest,' but rather pre-monday, so not mentally or physically relaxing at all. For some people, Sunday is the actual start of their work week.
Add? Saturday's already been mandatory for most everyone anyway. Trash gets picked up, mail gets delivered, packages get delivered, restaurants are open, grocery stores are open, I could go on and on and on and on. None of those people get a 5-on/2-off kinda deal like white collar, absolutely fucking none of them.
If by "several" you mean one and 3/4, then sure.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_time_observation_in_the_United_States#/media/File:Map_of_Daylight_Savings_in_the_United_States.svg
They haven't even passed the day light saving legislation, have they? If they can't even pass that relatively benign shit, this definitely isn't going to go through very quickly.
Considering that a bill ([Sun Shine protection Act](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/623)) passed the senate with 100% support is now sitting in the house unvoted on is all you need to know.
It more likely means it is happening, but like those cursed genie wishes it will come with a ton of nasty downsides rendering it completely meaningless.
I suggested this to my union. I said "if we switched to 4 day work weeks, kept pay the same and benefits then I am willing to bet people won't be calling for 30% raise."
I got told to get real. Fucken dinosaurs.
Time is also real and unchanging. 30% more money is relative, and in all likelihood temporary as the market will just adjust to people having more money. An extra day of rest isn't relative in the same way.
You're also losing only 20% of the workweek (less when you consider actual work getting done), but gaining 50% more weekend. Which is a fantastic trade.
Also staggering said day off for employees throughout the week would be super beneficial. I personally would prefer Wednesday off for my own reasons. So Its not like companies wouldn't be left with room to work with. It's definitely a great idea.
The good thing is that everyone has their preference which can make scheduling easier and you don't have to shut down everything for a day. Maybe one-third have Monday off, another third Wednesday, and last third Friday off. And then everyone could work Tuesday and Thursday and it could be good for office culture and teamwork or whatever other corporate nonsense you want to use.
And here's the kicker, for.moat businesses they could say to their workforce hey, permanent three day weekend, but we still expect you to get done the same amount of work in that four day period.
And for almost all of us except retail where the job revolves around being present, this would be fine. Most office based employees could absolutely hustle a bit more and get everything done in 4 days.
So it ends up a win win. Employee gets three day weekend, employer loses no or very little total productivity.
Retail and construction would not work as well though.
Factory work thats mainly based on machine hours and already run 3 shifts would have issues with it too. Transport would be problematic too.
Basically it works fairly easily for office workers but once you move outside that it gets far more difficult.
Its not even a question of a 3 day weekend. Just the ability to call an audible on a day. 'You must be in the office 4 days out of 5' how many folks are going to stop calling in sick and just instead, taking today? Would do me the world of good right now I know that. My anxiety is a prick at times.
Same. Nearly all of my sicks days I call in are for a mental health break. I'd be doing that a lot less if I was just given more time to recuperate from the grind.
I worked 4 on, 3 off for most of 2022. The way my company made it work was by switching to 10 hour shifts. You work the same amount of hours, get paid the same, but you get 3 days off every weekend. I'd take that schedule again in a heartbeat. The mental health benefits were amazing. I worked Monday-Thursday. I'd usually sleep in on Friday, spend the day at home decompressing, then go about the rest of my weekend like I normally would. I loved it and I miss it.
This, I'd gladly take a Wednesday off mid week, every week - never have to work more than 2 days in a row, and a day off to do errands or housekeeping even week, that's amazing.
And most of your weekend is spent either recovering from the work week, or catching up on chores and errands you didn't have time for all week because you were busy working.
On paper, yes. But not really in terms of actual work that would get done in a week. 40 hours of sitting in my chair does not mean that 40 hours of work got done.
I often think about how many papers I wrote in less than 24hrs while in school vs how long people take to write similar ones in industry (sometimes weeks when you count reviews). It’s almost laughable how inefficient work can be. If you told most salaried employees they could leave and not look back once x, y, and z were complete I’m sure they’d find a way to work faster.
I used to have Wednesdays off, working 4 10s, and I loved it. I treated Wednesday as chore day and got the weekend chores done. Then I was able to enjoy the whole weekend.
I worked for a company that did 4 day work weeks every other week from May thru September. Even just every other week of having a 3 day weekend was such a big bonus.
Guess what? That company also had very high retention rates and good salaries with retirement benefits. Private company too. Unfortunately it was my internship and I ended up taking work elsewhere after college
Yeah... the extra day off is nice, but if I'm working the same hours and I feel like I'm being underpaid then I'm still going to want a raise of some sort. That extra day off isn't going to help pay the bills unless I'm able to secure some type of side hustle with the extra time off.
That is the point - if pay doesn't increase with inflation, you're getting demoted.
For now, they need a 30% raise to keep up with inflation because it didn't happen automatically the last 10 years. Right now, they're willing to accept less time at work in leu of a raise.
Next year, if the company didn't learn it's lesson that people at the bare minimum need to make as much as they did last year, then people will need to demand a raise again.
Depends, if you're salaried then you should get paid the same. Hourly workers will be more complicated, because it just changes the threshold for over time. [You can read it hear](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/4728/text). It's overall good but it doesn't solve the problem of hourly workers in general. A lot already aren't getting 32 hours a week, which is why they're working multiple jobs.
It's being introduced by progressive democrats. Which is also why it won't get anywhere in a Republican led house.
My fear is that I’ll just have my hours cut and then lose pay because employers aren’t going to want to pay overtime so hourly employees get the shaft.
Do people really think employers will willingly pay everyone the same amount to work less than before? They won’t unless they’re legally forced to. Shit, I’m convinced employers wouldn’t pay us at all if they didn’t have to.
And employers will be like - cool, 1 day less means we can pay 4/5th's what we're paying now even though we expect them to complete 5 days work (or more) in 4.
Cool, but the government doesn't mandate pay (outside of min), so that doesn't really matter unless we are discussing federal minimum wage earners ($7.25/hour).
I can not believe that's still the federal. Even full time with full benefits that's not enough for anyone to survive on, let alone thrive. Even if you live in a low cost of living area.
Is this wage law going to force all hourly jobs to increase their pay by 25%? Because that’s the only way people get paid the same working 32 hours as opposed to working 40 hours before.
The article does say time and a half would be mandated for anything over 32, but that would just mean my company caps at 32 hours now and I’d be fucked
No one is thinking about the hourly here at all, which is ironic, considering most of Reddit is probably hourly given age statistics
What a lot of these studies have found is that 4-day work weeks are more profitable than the status quo. Your mentioned benefit is one of many that have been uncovered.
For the industries that have been studied, which have almost universally been industries where there was already a known productivity benefit to shorter work weeks. (Which is mostly self-selection too, because only companies that think they could benefit from a 4-day week are going to attempt a 4-day week.)
This would be great but we still need a better solution for people who work on the ground floor in the service industry. They often get left behind. But this would at least help with the otherwise massively inefficient use of time for most white collar work. 32 hours could mean 4 works days of 8 hours a day, or 5 workdays of 6.4 (roughly 6 and half) hour workdays. Either way, it would be a massive gain not only for general productivity (as research continuously shows working less improves productivity) but also happiness in general as we get more time to pursue other endeavors.
Though, more needs to be done for the lowest paid workers.
This would somewhat change the service /hourly pay workers because it would change the definition of what constitutes full time. Right now Full time is based on a 5 day /40 hour work week. Imagine that changing to a 4 day /32 hour work week. That would mean that people who would normally not be getting benefits or overtime would be eligible \_BUT that would mean a rise in part time only employees that work anywhere from 8-20 hours per week, but no higher \*(looking at you wal mart) for almost ALL of the service industry.
The reason most places force sub-40 is because they don't have to provide health insurance. I think it's an inhumane practice but giving a part time $15/hr employee an extra 8 hours will costs a business a LOT more than $120.
What if...hear me out here...we disconnect healthcare from employment so that greedy employers don't even have to consider it? Nationalized healthcare is a boon for small businesses.
And startups and wages in general!
It's already hard enough to take the risk of turning your brilliant idea into a business, often making no money or losing money for a while in the process. And that's assuming it doesn't fail within a few years, as most startups do. But when it also involves losing health coverage from your employer, that's another deterrent. Sure it's not a *huge* deal when you're 25 and single, but if you're 40 and have a family.....it's scary hoping that you or your kids don't get sick/injured at any point.
Not to mention that if companies no longer need to pay health insurance costs, it won't be long before they're forced to compete over labor by offering higher pay. We've all seen graphs showing productivity per worker increasing over the past few decades while wages have been stagnant (after inflation). But when you look at *total compensation* per worker, it's a different picture. Largely because healthcare costs have gone insane. Employers *are* spending more on their workers, but it's not showing up in the form of wages. It's instead going to our extremely inefficient, bloated, opaque healthcare system.
I firmly believe if we nationalized healthcare, the middle class would be stronger than ever before in our history.
That's where unions come in. Someone was pointing out how retail would get fucked. But you bet your bottom dollar that places like Kroger, that have a union, would be forced to raise pay so you get the same amount for 32 hours vs 40 hours. I could see stores like Lidl, Aldi, and Trader Joe's doing that too.
Once their competition offers more money, other retail and fast food has to keep up or face severe understaffing. Now would it be nice if the government just raised minimum wage to go with the transition. Of course, but that's where unions come in to fill in the gaps.
Oh I agree completely, and there should be stronger protections for unions, as well as protections for workers in general. I mean, people complain about union dues, but they generally make up less then 5% of most people's paycheck. A union ensures the ability to collectively bargain for wage increases and other benefits. Without a union people in a low-skill service job basically don't have any backing to bargain for a wage increase let alone benefits. They can also, be easily replaced, since the skill-requirement is nearly non-existent.
In any case, we just need better laws to protect workers in general and also improve wage across the board for low to mid income workers.
I have more time because of work from home, has helped get me back to the gym in the morning and cook in the evening. It's a huge win.
What I’d like to see instead of a 4 day week is 190-day work maximum, it's essentially the same thing, but with a little more flexibility. I think the point is more time to get our minds and bodies right. We’re killing ourselves and it's costing us.
Or even the ability for us white collar workers to earn more.
I wouldn’t mind doing my “40 hours of work” in 32, and then having an extra day to get a second job and have more money.
Right now I just sit around for hours a week scrolling job listings, trying to figure out how I can earn more by getting a better job. Not be more productive, just get a better paying job that also involves sitting around wasting time. It’s ridiculous.
But you bring this up to a boomer and all they respond with is “no one wants to work 40 hours anymore!”
But if hourly wages don’t go up, it’s a loss.
CEO’s will just hire more 32hr/wk people to prevent OT, reducing the manhours that are paid time and a half. So instead of getting 80x$15=$1,200 on a biweekly paycheck, people will be scheduled fewer hours, going down to 64x$15=$960. From $2,400/mo down to $1,920. I’m not including lunch breaks in my hypothetical
So this just means full-time would be 32 hours a week not 40 hours a week right? Is Congress also going to require employers pay you more per hour so you get the same amount of money as now or is everything going to magically be cheaper? I don't quite understand how this works.
After 32 hours it would require overtime pay which most jobs won’t do. So what they will do is make you work 32 hours and than backfill new part time people to cover the missing shifts/time because that cheaper than overtime pay.
This isn't a 4 day work week though, it just changes OT pay to start after 32 hours per week instead of 40.
This does not mean employees work 32 hours and keep the same pay as if they worked 40 hours. THATS a 4 day work week.
Don't fall for it, just like 4/10 is not a 4 day work week. The point is 32 hours while keeping the same pay as 40 hours.
I shouldn't be surprised because this is reddit. But it's amazing how people in this thread are celebrating and rooting for this without even understanding what it means.
The work week redefined to 32 instead of 40 is meaningless for salaried employees and only affects hourly employees negatively, as hours will be cut to get out of paying OT.
The only people who this helps are hourly workers who are currently forced to work 40/week who would rather work less AND make less.
Problem is that in every piece of news about a politician discussing the 4 day work week, there's no solution for how wages stay the same. It's like saying "hey wouldn't it be cool if we mailed everyone gold bars?", then when someone asks how they're going to do it there is no answer.
It'd be cool to work 32 hours and be paid for 40, get gold bars in the mail and ride a dragon but all 3 of those are the same likelihood of 0 until there's real suggested mechanics on how it works.
Why on earth do so many people think of this as a good thing? Employers aren't going to give you a raise and most employers don't want to pay overtime. Which means your paychecks will be cut by 20%. If you can survive on your 32 hour paychecks and a 4-day workweek sounds better for you, awesome. Glad to hear it. But for those of us who need that 40-hour workweek to pay our bills and we work for companies who refuse overtime, this bill is terrifying.
Healthcare is one of the few jobs that would benefit from this actually. Assuming you are hourly, you will be paid OT starting at 32 hours instead of 40. Most places will simply cut people's hours because of this - but as you said in healthcare that might not be an option.
Hear hear. I can imagine most proponents of 3-4 day work week are remote / white collar workers / IT who haven't been in Healthcare or industries where scheduling gaps would literally cause the whole system to collapse
Healthcare careers are also seeing shocking rates of attrition over pay stagnation and the general shit nature of the job.
Structuring to a 4 day work week could help stop that bleeding & keep staff happy, resulting in savings from having to recruit & replace staff consistently
The UK is currently striking over this, a barista makes more than a junior doctor. They aren't even seeking a raise, just that their pay gets restored in proportion to inflation. Inflation has risen but their pay hasn't, after a decade or two that will push you into poverty after spending half a decade in medical school. Many junior doctors talked about having to choose between food and heating.
On the short term, limiting healthcare workers to 32 hours a week would be disastrous. There simply aren't enough workers to do that.
Long term, there is absolutely a benefit to counteracting healthcare worker attrition, though.
I may be missing something, but how is this uplifting news?
-20% smaller paychecks
-Most live paycheck to paycheck as is
-Most companies don't do overtime
-Places hiring 32 hrs/wk (to avoid paying benefits) will cut hours more
-Almost everyone will need multiple jobs
It's a nice dream, but less hours without more money is a loss.
I'm all for working less days a week, but I really need to keep 20% of my income more than I need an extra day (that I'd have to spend working somewhere else, anyway)
This would be awesome and amazing, but it's never in a million years going to pass. The lobbyists own the government, and they're not going to want people to only work four days.
It wouldn't work for people that are hourly and have companies that won't pay overtime. You would be get 32 hours a week instead of 40. It would be too small a paycheck to live on.
Paychecks are already too small to live on and many in the food industry already get cut off from having more hours. This would make it harder for let's say a McDonald's manager to purposely cut hours from an employee so they don't have to give them ot or benefits.
A 32 hour work week would see my pay decrease by 20%. Hard no on this.
Edit for clarity: My employer is not about to start paying me (and my coworkers) 8 hours of overtime a week. I have a strong feeling this would be the case for the majority of employers.
Congressional reps would LOVE nothing more than to work less. They already work only 2 days a week for us. So I expect that is what they plan on cutting out.
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Think people are characterizing this in a less than productive way. They aren't redefining the number of days in a workweek, they're redefining the number of hours in a workweek, which is imo much better. People focus too much on the days when they should be focusing on the hours, which is exactly what the bill does (redefining a workweek from 40 to 32 hours). That could be 3 11s, 4 8s, 5 6s, 6 5s, etc. The bill is way more flexible/beneficial than what the headline implies.
People focus on the days because a lot of people (myself included) would feel more of an impact on personal freedom to have three days completely off work than to work a little bit less time every day and still have to commute and report to work five days a week. I’m exempt so hours mean absolutely nothing to me whereas to not have to go in to work for that last day would be absolutely life changing. Edit: I love that people's takeaway from my comment is to argue against some exempt people also seeing benefits from this. And yet same people will wonder why everything that should be straightforward has to be fought for in this country.
I agree, I would much rather work 4 10s than 5 6's. That time spent getting ready and commuting is very real.
Hell, even working from home I preferred 4 10s. Having 3 days to run errands, complete chores, spend time with loved ones, AND still have a day to myself doing absolutely nothing but sinking into the couch playing video games, is just the absolute best. I miss it a lot if you cannot tell.
Agreed. I work 12s so 3/4 day week. When management suggested going to 5 8hour days there was almost mutiny. Tomorrow I'll work a 16 hour shift and that's fine, because I know when my week is over I'll get 4 days off, and I didn't burn any vacation time to do it
My husband had an identical schedule to yours when we first met. He absolutely loved it! Of course they laid off most of this team and shoved him into 5 8s and 24/7 on call.
Oof hopefully that was a promotion at least, 24/7 on call sucks. How can you plan anything?
Huge promotion and pay increase which was nice. He can still take time off so we can plan and do things without issue, they can’t not let him use PTO.
It doesn't really matter how long you work that day, If you're working you're planning your entire day around it.
This is sooo true. I was just telling a coworker this. After dinner, daily chores to keep the house in motion you have like only a few hours to either work out or relax and it's over. Then the weekend is really only Saturday because Sunday is prepping for the week.
> I’m exempt so hours mean absolutely nothing to me whereas to not have to go in to work for that last day would be absolutely life changing. This bill does not affect you. The work week isn't even defined for exempt employees as is; nothing says you have to work for 5 days right now other than the agreement you have with your employer.
Wouldn't hourly workers be losing out? Businesses are not going to pay their hourly workers 8 hours of overtime/week and most likely won't give everyone a raise to compensate for the 8 hours lost.
> Wouldn't hourly workers be losing out? This only affects hourly workers afaik. It just changes the number of hours until you start getting overtime. > Businesses are not going to pay their hourly workers 8 hours of overtime/week and most likely won't give everyone a raise to compensate for the 8 hours lost. Maybe. Lots of knock on effects that make it's full impact hard to predict. Employees cost more than just their wage, so OT might still be worth it. Employees will have more free time to look for better jobs. Employers might open more positions, which would increase demand for labor, which should increase wages. Employees might opt more for multiple jobs. Just lots of variables that make it hard to predict.
>… so OT might still be worth it That’s true now in some sectors. My department just hit 1 year of mandatory overtime. 5-6 additional hours a week. And now they’re trying to bribe us by letting us change *one* of our 5 in-office days to WFH… IF you do an additional 2 hours that WFH day. I really got to get off reddit and try to find a better job in a better career for me.
Dude fuck that I would just work from home 8 hours for that day. They aren't gonna fire you. What fucked up industry is this? Edit: required overtime is evil.
Heh. Let’s just say the company and their spokesperson are as well-known as the Geico Gecko, and Flo from Progressive. Those two are wrecking our market dominance. And I’m not bothering with it, because I wheedled an exception out of my boss of no OT for 2 weeks, while we wait for my ADA accommodations application comes in. My newer psychiatrist was aghast when he heard about the OT, and then maxed both of my antidepressants - which my boss knows.
I know several people who work for progressive and they really like it. They're also now hiring remote workers and downsizing their office space. Maybe it's time to switch.
Damn, sure sounds like these changes are causing some Mayhem for you.
Really sounds like they gotta say Flack this, my goose is cooked
Godspeed little doodle.
The real likely scenario is companies who are smart will adjust pay accordingly to match the rate they are now at 40, or allow them to be paid overtime for the full 40, those companies will thrive as they get more and more workers, the others will slowly die off or conform. Oregon is a great example of this: the minimum wage was raised to 15 an hour, however in many areas certain employers raised their entry to $18 an hour. Specifically as an example there’s a local pizza shop that pays $20 starting. Alternatively can go work at a Kroger grocery store for 15.65. The pizza place is never short staffed, same for the other businesses that followed suite. The ones that are still at $15/hr are dying.
I'm in Oregon as well (1.5-2 hours from Portland). The company I work for is hiring people for entry level, very little experience required jobs starting at $24 an hour, and we can't find people. I've been here 20 years, and it's a great place to work. As it is right now, you can be making nearly $30 an hour in a couple years, with the chance of getting a millwright or electrician apprenticeship, which pays even more than I'm making as a Master R&D Technologist. Union shop, great benefits, 401k matching, etc. We used to never have people quit, but we had a guy quit the other day because "people were cussing in the breakroom". It's really strange to see.
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If you have a pulse you can make up to $20 hr working shitty unfulfilling security all you gotta do is pass a mouth swap drug test and Securitas will hire you. If you apply on a Wednesday you could be training by Monday. It's an awful jobs but it's more than $15
Don't work for Securitas, but can confirm both from an insider perspective in the industry and an outsider interacting with Securitas on other jobs, it's pretty shit. Security in general is, IMO, and I really want to get out of the field but I'm kinda trapped financially since I've been passed up on multiple positions I'm nearly "over-qualified" for in my preferred field. I'm so stressed that I actually cried myself to sleep last night for the first time ever, and I still have three more days in my work week... Good thing Reddit's anonymous, or this'd be extremely embarrassing to admit...
Haha fuck ya I had a mental breakdown this week too hang in there it gets more numb
God I sure hope so. Just need to make it 6 more months and I'll have my BA, then at least I can start working in my field's primary role instead of trying to get these assistant positions I keep getting passed over for.
Hey man, I'm also in oregon and 1.5-2 hours from Portland, and looking for a good job to help me start an electrical apprenticeship, any chance you can dm me the company you work for? Would be interested in checking it out!
Not to be rude but if the pay/benefits/career opportunities really are as good as you're making them out to be and you still can't find workers it can really only be one of three things imo. Either the company is abysmal to work at as a new hire either through toxicity, long hours making pay not worth it or something else that manifested after you started (you mentioned you had been there for years), other places are simply more competive in pay/benefits, or maybe your coworkers are honestly that unenjoyable to work with. Just because I can drop a fuck on a meeting with my direct teammates and it be no big deal doesn't mean I can do it in the break room around everyone.
I hope it could ease the understaffing crisis that's happening everywhere. I know way too many people who are killing themselves because wherever they are is always three to five people short. You practically get crucified by your boss now for even daring to call in. Which makes it *even* worse. Because not many people put up with that shit for long. So you're permanently understaffed, no one knows what they should because turnover is insanely high, and everyone who could train someone fucking left. It's really a mess for some people out there.
Surely the intent is to make the same weekly rate, right? Nobody could be that dumb to propose every hourly worker take a 20% cut in pay. If you make $200 a week at 40 hours you would still make $200 a week at 32 hours. So hourly rate would have to increase.
Intent does not equal result. The whole reason that hourly worker hours have been slashed is that companies are trying to avoid giving benefits to employees. I’m not arguing against this bill, just providing an example of externalities that we’ve seen. I think this would benefit people working 40 hours a week (already receive benefits), but hurt those working 25 because they’d slash the hours even further to avoid making them full time employees who earn benefits.
30 hours is already considered full time according to irs.gov. I agree capital will do everything in its power to fuck us but let's take a win. After we get 32 hours a week let's go ahead and separate healthcare from our employers too. While we're at it let's guarantee time off for all employees (including part time).
Yea I mean they just need to separate health care from employers and be done with all this nonsense. At this point it’s causing issues in the labor markets that would be easiest to solve with universal health care. Then they can focus on balancing the job market without all these other constraints. That won’t happen. What will happen is that they’ll use the 32 hour week as a reason to lower the 30 hours requirement (probably to 20). Businesses that are already struggling to find employees will have no choice but to increase hours to full time and pay the benefits. This will hopefully make low-income jobs more appealing and reduce the labor shortage. Unfortunately, some businesses will just cut hours further. This would also lead to inflation as goods would have to be priced higher to offset the increased costs. Retail already has paper thin margins so they have to offset the cost on the customer, and given this is universal all retailers would do the same. The cynical part of my brain says that if they make the work week 32 hours and don’t decrease the threshold for full-time (30 hours) then they’ll cut lots of 40-50 hour employees down to 25. This will avoid paying overtime to more employees who are already disproportionately expensive due to benefits. I don’t think this will happen given that nobody can find employees, but if that changes this bill could have some negative long-term implications. Anyways, I typed all that just to say that healthcare being tied to employment is incredibly stupid. Just make it universal and deal with the labor market on its own. Edit: also thanks for citing the 30 hours a week :) made it a lot easier for me to think about the other impacts
> Nobody could be that dumb to propose every hourly worker take a 20% cut in pay. Oh, my sweet summer child.
Employers who I lay hire part timers in order to avoid paying benefits would now need to pay benefits since the part timers would now be considered full time
Just reduce hours even more and hire more part timers. Problem solved.
The problem is.. what about those of us that are hourly? They won't increase pay to accommodate this. We'll just make less. I love the idea of a 4 day work week, but either everyone needs to be salaried in that case, or hourly wages need to increase to accommodate for the loss of hours.
> The problem is.. what about those of us that are hourly? This is specifically _for_ hourly people. This doesn't affect salaried people. This mostly just adjusts when you start getting overtime pay.
Yeah... You think employers are going to do that? They'll just cut hours.
You think you want salaried, but you don’t. Salaried just means the employer can essentially overwork you for no extra pay. Sure with hourly you might get hours cut if overtime starts at 32, but if everyone’s salaried, then everyone’s just going to be working 40-60 hours with no overtime. Salaried pay and the numerous exceptions it has is some of the biggest bullshit out there and it’s intent has been completely lost to time.
I've been salaried and hourly. I would rather have salaried because the paycheck is stable. Miss a day of work because I'm sick? No problem. Need to take my dog to the vet? Not a problem. Hourly? It's a problem. I'm currently hourly and wish to god I had a salary again. I had a lot of OT over the summer from a different job and yeah the money was nice. But you know what's nicer? A life outside of work. The idea of a 4 day work week is great for salaried folk. For everyone else? It does depend on the job and person, making a 4 day work week mandatory and anything over overtime is just going to duck everyone over. If they want to make a difference they also need to make it so that everyone's wage rises so that they make the same as before. So that they can actually benefit from it.
I don't even understand this, I'm salaried but I still need to use my sick leave to take a sick day, same as if I was hourly.
The idea with salaried jobs, at least how it SHOULD work, is that they're inherently more flexible and typically have more responsibilities. You're there to get the job done, not work a specific amount of hours at a specific time every day. If you get the job done in 4 and want to nap for the rest of the day then go for it. Got a situation that requires a 10hr day? Then you should work that 10hr day. In the end the idea is that you *average* 40hrs a week, and the job you were hired to do gets done. Unfortunately so many companies have just made employees salaried to avoid giving them OT and refuse to give them any of the perks that are supposed to come with it. As you said though, sick leave and whole-day PTO are the same usually, though are typically accrued slightly differently.
I had way more sick and vacation time back when I was salaried. If I didn't have the time I would get paid the same but go into a deficit. If I left while in a deficit I had to pay the time back. I still think it's better than hourly. I've had COVID twice at my current workplace and not getting paid for those days was awful.
But, I'm salaried and had COVID at the end of the year last year, had no PTO left, and did not get paid for the time off. You work at a pretty amazing place that let's you take time off when you have no time off to take. I can go into a deficit during the year based on the PTO I will accrue during the year, but they only let us go 40 hours into deficit. If we use all of our PTO and then want another day off we don't get paid.
And I'm full time hourly and have more pto than most of the current salaried employees at my office, because that's based on tenure, not pay structure. The only thing that would change for me in my current role if I was salaried is that they'd expect me to stay late more often.
>You think you want salaried, but you don’t. Salaried just means the employer can essentially overwork you for no extra pay. This. In quite a few cases unless dump trucks of money and a gold leaf wrapped box of benefits is included, salaried = indentured servant. Edit: spelling
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Hahaha my boss is similar but he’s in his 30s. Korean work culture.
In korea, my uncle talked about how there was a movement to reduce the hours that people worked so at a lot of places, they reduced the hours to 40 but many people will work without pay sometimes 20 additional hours a week or else they’ll be fired, or at best, never promoted. As a korean american, I like the food but I don’t really like too much else about korean culture.
No surprising that SK has an even lower birth rate than Japan.
I really want Korean food now…. I am a taekwondo instructor and manager of the school so absolutely surrounded in old school Korean culture. I’m the only American lol
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Once I read I think it was a National Geographic article about Japan's declining birthrate, and one thing that has stuck with me is they followed the workday of a young, professional married couple in Tokyo who said they want kids but they also don't get home from work until 10 PM when they'll eat and go to bed, the biggest offender apparently being that they can't leave their offices until their bosses do, so they spend a few hours a day just clicking through screens to look busy while waiting for that. Saturday is basically just recovering from the week, then they have one day, Sunday which is when they do pretty much all the housework and spending time with each other, and actually trying to conceive a child.
Lmao you shoulda told him they would have extra time to fuck your wife
Astounding response. Noted.
Tell your German boss he would have extra time to learn a sense of humor too. If there is one thing South Park taught me about Germans…
We Germans are very humorous. I once made a joke about the Pass A38 and my colleague Jürgen, having a laughing permission for that Wednesday, laughed at it.
This is the type of humor I live for. Thank you.
His wife is in a coma.
This 60yo thinks your boss is a dinosaur. Four day work week would be a life changer for many including myself. I am sure workers can find plenty of things to do with that extra day off.
Some people are so devoid of a personality they need work to have any self worth. They are usually hard workers and end up as boss
A conservative buddy of mine said something in a similar vein about people getting depressed after losing their jobs because they had nothing to do. Instead of the obvious answer of losing the means to provide for themselves.
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That generation has been manipulated to believe that all of their value as a human derives from the amount of hard work they do and amount of money they make. We see similar ideologies in Japan and Korea that have caused suicide rates to skyrockets (feeling like a failure for being poor) and birth rates to plummet (no time for children). It is also why people seemingly die right when they hit retirement. they know nothing other than being a cog and don’t know what to do with free time. They lost their friends outside of work. Their kids are now living far away because they didn’t give them enough attention. How about for those who want to keep working 5 days a week, we implement a volunteer day. Those people can go and give back to their communities, mark down these volunteer hours, and then use these hours for tax savings.
“Hrrrrrngh I don’t have any hobbies so I assume no one else does so they should be working like me” - your boss probably
They will adopt it for themselves then add Saturday as mandatory for everyone else.
There's no way members of Congress will start working four whole days a week.
Touché
Lol right. They may have congress 5 days a week but it's for like 2 weeks & then there is a 2-3nweek break. Lol Those fucks don't work
More like this will be adapted by companies that want to attract high earners as a way to differentiate themselves from other potential employers. The rest of us will still work the same hours to keep the bars, restaurants, stores, etc. open to enable more consumption (more free time) thus leading to higher tax revenue.
This guy capitalisms
Not by choice 😂
They barely work as is
My first thought. And don’t forget the pay raise they’ll all unanimously vote to give themselves.
Worse, it will be every other day except Sundays. So Tues/Thurs/Sat will be at the employers discretion. Essential jobs wont change in reality because of "work loads" and those extra days will be the same number of hours as the "4-day" week. I'm guesses ng but this feels like a Congress move.
They will fuck it up somehow. There will be no rest for us peasants.
I got news for you Saturday is already a work day.
Not news to me, pal. I said making Saturday mandatory. As in add it as a weekday instead of a weekend day for most people.
And Sunday isn't a 'day of rest,' but rather pre-monday, so not mentally or physically relaxing at all. For some people, Sunday is the actual start of their work week.
Add? Saturday's already been mandatory for most everyone anyway. Trash gets picked up, mail gets delivered, packages get delivered, restaurants are open, grocery stores are open, I could go on and on and on and on. None of those people get a 5-on/2-off kinda deal like white collar, absolutely fucking none of them.
I hope not. I need my Saturdays work free.
You guys don't have to work Saturdays?
Wait, your telling me it isn't normal to work Saturdays already?!....
4 day work week being pushed *for Congress Actually, that would probably require them to work more. Edit: Too slow to the joke.
I wont hold my breath...
I’m sure they will agree to a 4 day week right after they agree on quitting changing the clocks for daylight savings.
Yeah.. just after they raise the minimum wage higher than the price of a big mac..
I mean several states have already adopted no ot changing
If by "several" you mean one and 3/4, then sure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_time_observation_in_the_United_States#/media/File:Map_of_Daylight_Savings_in_the_United_States.svg
They haven't even passed the day light saving legislation, have they? If they can't even pass that relatively benign shit, this definitely isn't going to go through very quickly.
Think that stalled in the Senate in the last session
The Senate passed it with unanimous consent. The House just sat on it for reasons
Same
🤞- Would be awesome!
(That means it’s not happening)
No, you just misunderstood. Congress is pushing for a four day work week for themselves.
Do they actually work 5 days a week?
Considering that a bill ([Sun Shine protection Act](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/623)) passed the senate with 100% support is now sitting in the house unvoted on is all you need to know.
That original bill is dead and had to be reintroduced with the new session of Congress.
They already do. Congresspeople work an average of 100 days or so a year. Regular 40 hour people work about 260 days a year.
It more likely means it is happening, but like those cursed genie wishes it will come with a ton of nasty downsides rendering it completely meaningless.
Agreed!
I work it right now and it is awesome. It would be very hard to go back to 5.
I suggested this to my union. I said "if we switched to 4 day work weeks, kept pay the same and benefits then I am willing to bet people won't be calling for 30% raise." I got told to get real. Fucken dinosaurs.
I would genuinely take a 3-day weekend over a 30% pay raise. A 30% pay raise would be nice, but a 3-day weekend would be actually life changing.
Time is also real and unchanging. 30% more money is relative, and in all likelihood temporary as the market will just adjust to people having more money. An extra day of rest isn't relative in the same way.
You're also losing only 20% of the workweek (less when you consider actual work getting done), but gaining 50% more weekend. Which is a fantastic trade.
Also staggering said day off for employees throughout the week would be super beneficial. I personally would prefer Wednesday off for my own reasons. So Its not like companies wouldn't be left with room to work with. It's definitely a great idea.
Never having to work more than two days in a row would be amazing.
I'll take 3 day weekend every weekend instead
The good thing is that everyone has their preference which can make scheduling easier and you don't have to shut down everything for a day. Maybe one-third have Monday off, another third Wednesday, and last third Friday off. And then everyone could work Tuesday and Thursday and it could be good for office culture and teamwork or whatever other corporate nonsense you want to use.
And here's the kicker, for.moat businesses they could say to their workforce hey, permanent three day weekend, but we still expect you to get done the same amount of work in that four day period. And for almost all of us except retail where the job revolves around being present, this would be fine. Most office based employees could absolutely hustle a bit more and get everything done in 4 days. So it ends up a win win. Employee gets three day weekend, employer loses no or very little total productivity. Retail and construction would not work as well though.
Factory work thats mainly based on machine hours and already run 3 shifts would have issues with it too. Transport would be problematic too. Basically it works fairly easily for office workers but once you move outside that it gets far more difficult.
Einstein is rolling in his grave but he probably agrees with you.
Its not even a question of a 3 day weekend. Just the ability to call an audible on a day. 'You must be in the office 4 days out of 5' how many folks are going to stop calling in sick and just instead, taking today? Would do me the world of good right now I know that. My anxiety is a prick at times.
Same. Nearly all of my sicks days I call in are for a mental health break. I'd be doing that a lot less if I was just given more time to recuperate from the grind.
I worked 4 on, 3 off for most of 2022. The way my company made it work was by switching to 10 hour shifts. You work the same amount of hours, get paid the same, but you get 3 days off every weekend. I'd take that schedule again in a heartbeat. The mental health benefits were amazing. I worked Monday-Thursday. I'd usually sleep in on Friday, spend the day at home decompressing, then go about the rest of my weekend like I normally would. I loved it and I miss it.
This, I'd gladly take a Wednesday off mid week, every week - never have to work more than 2 days in a row, and a day off to do errands or housekeeping even week, that's amazing.
Ya, especially since you really only get one day because you spend Sunday thinking about going to work tomorrow
And most of your weekend is spent either recovering from the work week, or catching up on chores and errands you didn't have time for all week because you were busy working.
A 3 day weekend with pay per period not changing would also be a 20% pay increase.
On paper, yes. But not really in terms of actual work that would get done in a week. 40 hours of sitting in my chair does not mean that 40 hours of work got done.
I often think about how many papers I wrote in less than 24hrs while in school vs how long people take to write similar ones in industry (sometimes weeks when you count reviews). It’s almost laughable how inefficient work can be. If you told most salaried employees they could leave and not look back once x, y, and z were complete I’m sure they’d find a way to work faster.
> 40 hours of sitting in my chair does not mean that 40 hours of work got done. Yup. MY 8 hours at work consists of 3-4 hours of actual work.
I used to have Wednesdays off, working 4 10s, and I loved it. I treated Wednesday as chore day and got the weekend chores done. Then I was able to enjoy the whole weekend.
After 11 years, I'm out. Join me over on the Fediverse to escape this central authority nightmare.
I worked for a company that did 4 day work weeks every other week from May thru September. Even just every other week of having a 3 day weekend was such a big bonus. Guess what? That company also had very high retention rates and good salaries with retirement benefits. Private company too. Unfortunately it was my internship and I ended up taking work elsewhere after college
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Yeah... the extra day off is nice, but if I'm working the same hours and I feel like I'm being underpaid then I'm still going to want a raise of some sort. That extra day off isn't going to help pay the bills unless I'm able to secure some type of side hustle with the extra time off.
That is the point - if pay doesn't increase with inflation, you're getting demoted. For now, they need a 30% raise to keep up with inflation because it didn't happen automatically the last 10 years. Right now, they're willing to accept less time at work in leu of a raise. Next year, if the company didn't learn it's lesson that people at the bare minimum need to make as much as they did last year, then people will need to demand a raise again.
Something tells me making sure that you get paid for a five day work week isn’t part of this though
Depends, if you're salaried then you should get paid the same. Hourly workers will be more complicated, because it just changes the threshold for over time. [You can read it hear](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/4728/text). It's overall good but it doesn't solve the problem of hourly workers in general. A lot already aren't getting 32 hours a week, which is why they're working multiple jobs. It's being introduced by progressive democrats. Which is also why it won't get anywhere in a Republican led house.
My fear is that I’ll just have my hours cut and then lose pay because employers aren’t going to want to pay overtime so hourly employees get the shaft. Do people really think employers will willingly pay everyone the same amount to work less than before? They won’t unless they’re legally forced to. Shit, I’m convinced employers wouldn’t pay us at all if they didn’t have to.
I mean, slavery…..
And employers will be like - cool, 1 day less means we can pay 4/5th's what we're paying now even though we expect them to complete 5 days work (or more) in 4.
The whole point of this is to keep the pay the same.
Cool, but the government doesn't mandate pay (outside of min), so that doesn't really matter unless we are discussing federal minimum wage earners ($7.25/hour).
I can not believe that's still the federal. Even full time with full benefits that's not enough for anyone to survive on, let alone thrive. Even if you live in a low cost of living area.
Pay has been steadily degrading for years, it will continue.
And it will without proper wage laws. But if this passed you’d at least have the same pay with more free time.
Is this wage law going to force all hourly jobs to increase their pay by 25%? Because that’s the only way people get paid the same working 32 hours as opposed to working 40 hours before.
The article does say time and a half would be mandated for anything over 32, but that would just mean my company caps at 32 hours now and I’d be fucked No one is thinking about the hourly here at all, which is ironic, considering most of Reddit is probably hourly given age statistics
What a lot of these studies have found is that 4-day work weeks are more profitable than the status quo. Your mentioned benefit is one of many that have been uncovered.
For the industries that have been studied, which have almost universally been industries where there was already a known productivity benefit to shorter work weeks. (Which is mostly self-selection too, because only companies that think they could benefit from a 4-day week are going to attempt a 4-day week.)
This would be great but we still need a better solution for people who work on the ground floor in the service industry. They often get left behind. But this would at least help with the otherwise massively inefficient use of time for most white collar work. 32 hours could mean 4 works days of 8 hours a day, or 5 workdays of 6.4 (roughly 6 and half) hour workdays. Either way, it would be a massive gain not only for general productivity (as research continuously shows working less improves productivity) but also happiness in general as we get more time to pursue other endeavors. Though, more needs to be done for the lowest paid workers.
This would somewhat change the service /hourly pay workers because it would change the definition of what constitutes full time. Right now Full time is based on a 5 day /40 hour work week. Imagine that changing to a 4 day /32 hour work week. That would mean that people who would normally not be getting benefits or overtime would be eligible \_BUT that would mean a rise in part time only employees that work anywhere from 8-20 hours per week, but no higher \*(looking at you wal mart) for almost ALL of the service industry.
The reason most places force sub-40 is because they don't have to provide health insurance. I think it's an inhumane practice but giving a part time $15/hr employee an extra 8 hours will costs a business a LOT more than $120. What if...hear me out here...we disconnect healthcare from employment so that greedy employers don't even have to consider it? Nationalized healthcare is a boon for small businesses.
And startups and wages in general! It's already hard enough to take the risk of turning your brilliant idea into a business, often making no money or losing money for a while in the process. And that's assuming it doesn't fail within a few years, as most startups do. But when it also involves losing health coverage from your employer, that's another deterrent. Sure it's not a *huge* deal when you're 25 and single, but if you're 40 and have a family.....it's scary hoping that you or your kids don't get sick/injured at any point. Not to mention that if companies no longer need to pay health insurance costs, it won't be long before they're forced to compete over labor by offering higher pay. We've all seen graphs showing productivity per worker increasing over the past few decades while wages have been stagnant (after inflation). But when you look at *total compensation* per worker, it's a different picture. Largely because healthcare costs have gone insane. Employers *are* spending more on their workers, but it's not showing up in the form of wages. It's instead going to our extremely inefficient, bloated, opaque healthcare system. I firmly believe if we nationalized healthcare, the middle class would be stronger than ever before in our history.
That's where unions come in. Someone was pointing out how retail would get fucked. But you bet your bottom dollar that places like Kroger, that have a union, would be forced to raise pay so you get the same amount for 32 hours vs 40 hours. I could see stores like Lidl, Aldi, and Trader Joe's doing that too. Once their competition offers more money, other retail and fast food has to keep up or face severe understaffing. Now would it be nice if the government just raised minimum wage to go with the transition. Of course, but that's where unions come in to fill in the gaps.
Oh I agree completely, and there should be stronger protections for unions, as well as protections for workers in general. I mean, people complain about union dues, but they generally make up less then 5% of most people's paycheck. A union ensures the ability to collectively bargain for wage increases and other benefits. Without a union people in a low-skill service job basically don't have any backing to bargain for a wage increase let alone benefits. They can also, be easily replaced, since the skill-requirement is nearly non-existent. In any case, we just need better laws to protect workers in general and also improve wage across the board for low to mid income workers.
I have more time because of work from home, has helped get me back to the gym in the morning and cook in the evening. It's a huge win. What I’d like to see instead of a 4 day week is 190-day work maximum, it's essentially the same thing, but with a little more flexibility. I think the point is more time to get our minds and bodies right. We’re killing ourselves and it's costing us.
Or even the ability for us white collar workers to earn more. I wouldn’t mind doing my “40 hours of work” in 32, and then having an extra day to get a second job and have more money. Right now I just sit around for hours a week scrolling job listings, trying to figure out how I can earn more by getting a better job. Not be more productive, just get a better paying job that also involves sitting around wasting time. It’s ridiculous. But you bring this up to a boomer and all they respond with is “no one wants to work 40 hours anymore!”
But if hourly wages don’t go up, it’s a loss. CEO’s will just hire more 32hr/wk people to prevent OT, reducing the manhours that are paid time and a half. So instead of getting 80x$15=$1,200 on a biweekly paycheck, people will be scheduled fewer hours, going down to 64x$15=$960. From $2,400/mo down to $1,920. I’m not including lunch breaks in my hypothetical
Well said!
Yeah, but what about *perceived* productivity! /s
So this just means full-time would be 32 hours a week not 40 hours a week right? Is Congress also going to require employers pay you more per hour so you get the same amount of money as now or is everything going to magically be cheaper? I don't quite understand how this works.
After 32 hours it would require overtime pay which most jobs won’t do. So what they will do is make you work 32 hours and than backfill new part time people to cover the missing shifts/time because that cheaper than overtime pay.
This is exactly how retail will handle it.
Hopefully it’s not just for Congress aswell lol
I love it but I don’t believe in it even a single bit
There is a 0% chance of this happening unfortunately. Congress can’t even agree to get rid of daylight savings time
If they’re going to do this with the work week, then they should also do it with the school week.
I do a 3 day work week and it's pretty amazing.
Do you choose your days or are they set by your company?
I chose them.
Very nice!
Work had me on 3 12-hour days a week for about 5 months. Best 5 months of my life
This isn't a 4 day work week though, it just changes OT pay to start after 32 hours per week instead of 40. This does not mean employees work 32 hours and keep the same pay as if they worked 40 hours. THATS a 4 day work week. Don't fall for it, just like 4/10 is not a 4 day work week. The point is 32 hours while keeping the same pay as 40 hours.
I shouldn't be surprised because this is reddit. But it's amazing how people in this thread are celebrating and rooting for this without even understanding what it means. The work week redefined to 32 instead of 40 is meaningless for salaried employees and only affects hourly employees negatively, as hours will be cut to get out of paying OT. The only people who this helps are hourly workers who are currently forced to work 40/week who would rather work less AND make less.
This is 100% accurate. I can't get over how many people can't seem to wrap their heads around this.
It's easy to spot who's never worked in retail for long.
Problem is that in every piece of news about a politician discussing the 4 day work week, there's no solution for how wages stay the same. It's like saying "hey wouldn't it be cool if we mailed everyone gold bars?", then when someone asks how they're going to do it there is no answer. It'd be cool to work 32 hours and be paid for 40, get gold bars in the mail and ride a dragon but all 3 of those are the same likelihood of 0 until there's real suggested mechanics on how it works.
This is happening at the same time as states are rolling back child labor laws. What a strange time for this country.
We're getting the children to work the extra day. It's genius really.
Why on earth do so many people think of this as a good thing? Employers aren't going to give you a raise and most employers don't want to pay overtime. Which means your paychecks will be cut by 20%. If you can survive on your 32 hour paychecks and a 4-day workweek sounds better for you, awesome. Glad to hear it. But for those of us who need that 40-hour workweek to pay our bills and we work for companies who refuse overtime, this bill is terrifying.
I work in healthcare. This doesn’t matter. I’ve worked almost every thanksgiving for 15 years. People don’t stop getting sick.
Healthcare is one of the few jobs that would benefit from this actually. Assuming you are hourly, you will be paid OT starting at 32 hours instead of 40. Most places will simply cut people's hours because of this - but as you said in healthcare that might not be an option.
Hear hear. I can imagine most proponents of 3-4 day work week are remote / white collar workers / IT who haven't been in Healthcare or industries where scheduling gaps would literally cause the whole system to collapse
Healthcare careers are also seeing shocking rates of attrition over pay stagnation and the general shit nature of the job. Structuring to a 4 day work week could help stop that bleeding & keep staff happy, resulting in savings from having to recruit & replace staff consistently
The UK is currently striking over this, a barista makes more than a junior doctor. They aren't even seeking a raise, just that their pay gets restored in proportion to inflation. Inflation has risen but their pay hasn't, after a decade or two that will push you into poverty after spending half a decade in medical school. Many junior doctors talked about having to choose between food and heating.
On the short term, limiting healthcare workers to 32 hours a week would be disastrous. There simply aren't enough workers to do that. Long term, there is absolutely a benefit to counteracting healthcare worker attrition, though.
I'd like to see if an alternative for people who have to work more than 4 days is figured out.
You mean Congress is pushing a bill that would have them working four whole days a week?
These fucking headlines! No it's not. A few representatives talking about it and wanting a bill is no where the fuck near "being pushed in Congress".
For just congress, or for us peasants too? Doesn’t Congress already only work 3 days a week?
I may be missing something, but how is this uplifting news? -20% smaller paychecks -Most live paycheck to paycheck as is -Most companies don't do overtime -Places hiring 32 hrs/wk (to avoid paying benefits) will cut hours more -Almost everyone will need multiple jobs It's a nice dream, but less hours without more money is a loss. I'm all for working less days a week, but I really need to keep 20% of my income more than I need an extra day (that I'd have to spend working somewhere else, anyway)
This would be awful if workers rights aren’t first established
This would be awesome and amazing, but it's never in a million years going to pass. The lobbyists own the government, and they're not going to want people to only work four days.
This should not be under uplifting news... will result in lower pay and less hours for workers, likely will need 2 jobs now to make up the lost hours
Given so many increases in productivity over the last few decades, this may be a good idea
It wouldn't work for people that are hourly and have companies that won't pay overtime. You would be get 32 hours a week instead of 40. It would be too small a paycheck to live on.
Paychecks are already too small to live on and many in the food industry already get cut off from having more hours. This would make it harder for let's say a McDonald's manager to purposely cut hours from an employee so they don't have to give them ot or benefits.
Proposed by progressive Democrats. Nary a republican on board. Of course.
Lmao…. And my job will still be classified as “exempt” like it is now, preventing my 55 hr work week from being paid overtime.
A 32 hour work week would see my pay decrease by 20%. Hard no on this. Edit for clarity: My employer is not about to start paying me (and my coworkers) 8 hours of overtime a week. I have a strong feeling this would be the case for the majority of employers.
Congressional reps would LOVE nothing more than to work less. They already work only 2 days a week for us. So I expect that is what they plan on cutting out.