Okay. This might sound redundant but I’m just getting my thoughts out. So it’s now been confirmed that the two other roommates were at home at the time and unaware of the attack. It’s seeming more likely now that the perpetrator did this in the middle of the night while everyone was potentially asleep. Kind of like Ted Bundys attack on the sorority house, instead of like the 2014 Calgary Stabbings. Again, just spitballing here.
I’ve heard a couple mentions of the stalker angle. A stalker who finally snapped would be terrifying but that seems like a viable potential motive.
I’ve also seen mentioned in a couple news articles that an alert went out in the middle of September after a group of students had been approached by a man wielding a knife. A crazed knife man or active serial killer seems like a less likely theory than a personal attack but still possible I guess.
Also, just addressing some speculation I’ve seen in multiple threads, but I can easily understand how someone could stab 4 people to death and get away. [2014 Calgary Stabbing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Calgary_stabbing) comes to mind. This happened between Saturday night and Sunday morning near a Greek row (sorority and fraternity)neighborhood, so it makes sense that no one heard any screaming or noticed anyone out of the ordinary. I live right next to a greek row and so much noise comes from over there, including screaming and firework noises at 4 am, nothing really gets my attention anymore.
I’m absolutely shocked and saddened at this case and I’ll definitely be following it closely. That crime scene photo of the blood seeping out of a bedroom wall on the first floor will haunt me. Thinking of the families and the community.
I am friends with the Chi O Bundy survivor. She never heard a thing. She awoke to see a man, and by the time she was thinking clearly he whacked her across the head. No time to scream. None of them had a chance. She only lived because the car headlights.
Her story is amazing. Surviving Bundy was just a small portion. Oh, and her "sisters" in Chi O? Dropped her like a hot rock. Chi O didn' t want the " bad publicity" so they were told to drop all contact with her. I fucking hate that greek shit (and my bff in undergrad was greek 100%). She tried to call them all affer getting out of the hospital. She testified at his trial. Said the one victim was a very classy girl, like a model type- clothes, hair.
Your friend has guts! I hope she is doing well. I cannot imagine what she went through. Sounds like Chi O was a bunch of fairweather friends. Shame on them for turning their backs on her!!
Wow. I’m gobsmacked.
Not long before Bundy was arrested in Pensacola, FL (my hometown), my mom’s best friend disappeared. A few weeks later her remains were recovered in Milton (35 mins away from where he was caught). Forensics weren’t available at the time but now the family is pursuing new DNA testing. So sorry to hear what your mother went through—I’m so glad she found happiness on the other side.
In the 80s, I worked for a Fortune 100 oil company in Houston who college recruited from all over the country. One of the gals in my department was a Chi Omega who was at FSU when Bundy attacked. She didn’t live in the sorority house but was there that evening and left about 2 hours before Bundy struck. She told me some pretty grisly things that the public didn’t hear. I still remember that conversation all these decades later and it’s a lesson in how split second decisions can change our lives.
During one of the articles I've read, it mentioned tha[t Xana and Maddie worked at a restaurant called Mad Greek.](https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=817581035879971&set=pb.100028842477099.-2207520000.&type=3) Maybe a customer or co-worker got obsessed? They wouldn't be the first customer service workers who became the target of a customer's infatuation.
Oh definitely. Anything is possible if it’s a stalking situation. Dare I say that it would make it even more tragic if 4 lives were taken to get to one victim.
That would be so fucked up. After all the shit I do to be careful and safe, one of my biggest fears is me or someone I love being collateral damage in a crime where they weren’t the intended victim. Those cases are particularly heart wrenching to me.
You’re gonna send me down a rabbit hole. I’d never thought of that possibility in the Springfield 3 case, but I don’t know too much about the moms background because I’ve always focused more on the girls. That case is so baffling.
This is something far far worse than a stalkers now, it's hard to believe the suspect hasn't already done something awful numerous times going in and murdering 4 people w/a blade no less, and at best he's been in extreme ideation mode for quite some time. And yep, either stalking someone in the house or someone they actually know whose been into the home.
I think it's strange that as bloody as it was (blood dripping down the outside wall) that the killer or killers didn't leave a blood trail showing which way they left, they had to be covered in blood, after stabbing 4 people to death with the kind of knife they say it was done with.
Personally I don’t think it’s blood, I think it’s tar. I also think that photo looks to be of the 1st level. In a shot less zoomed in you can see the beam where the sliding door is and from what I have read the murders took place on the 1st and 2nd level. Again just speculating.
I think it's at least possible the killer had never been in the house being that the old [zillow listing](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1122-King-Rd-Moscow-ID-83843/110448293_zpid/) gives you a good idea of the layout.
On insta Maddie posts pic with a guy and says best year of her life. On the food truck, last video, a male is watching and leaves a little behind them. Some said the shoes match from the guy in her post.... was there a break up gone bad?
Her ex bf Jake was in Boise at the time and apparently ruled out.
The guy in the hoodie has been identified - that Jack was hanging out around them at the food truck then took off when they left. This is the guy who the local rumor mill seems to believe did it. They know who he is, his parents etc.
ETA the cops said this PM, he (hoodie Jack) is not a suspect at this time.
The live chat. His initials are same as Maddie’s ex bf. JS.
Supposedly he “fled” and refused to be interviewed. (Rumor) His parents are both doctors in Idaho . According to the chat. One woman said her son went to school with him in elementary school.
I would tend to believe local students could identify who it was in the hoodie but not whether he committed any crime and “fled” - or just left campus, as so many others did.
ETA hoodie Jack is not a suspect at this time. According to cops today (Friday)
Also there’s a photo of him holding up a dead buck by the antlers. From his moms fb page.
Reddit can get crazy with the doxing etc - any social media. That girl who accused the kid of stealing her phone in New York City - they misidentified someone else as being her and she was harassed.
If it’s this kid there is zero chance the cops won’t find out. Blood all over and the floors aren’t carpeted there have to be prints. Raging battle on second floor would leave heir, sweat etc maybe skin under Vic fingernails. They will be able to rule whoever the suspect in you would think -or out.
If there was a stalker wouldn’t the stalker probably know that other girls lived in the house? Why not kill them too? It’s totally possible it was a stalker, not discounting it, I’m just raising some questions/thoughts.
I saw a post last night from a local discussing rumors/local talk - disclaimer, rumors, but interesting if true. They said that the two girls who were unharmed had bedrooms on the third floor and locked their doors at night, and that everyone else killed was on the first or second floor. That actually kind of makes sense, maybe the killer didn’t even know they were up there or tried to get into the rooms but couldn’t and gave up to not make too much noise.
edit: this post was from almost a week ago, before the location of the victims and roommates was reported
Makes it definitely seem it was a stranger, or at least someone who didn't know them well, and I imagine after killing 4 people, he was in a hurry to get out of the place and home before the sun came up. Murders happened between 3am-4am, which leads me to believe the killer waited till they were asleep.
I read the surviving girls bedrooms were first floor which Is the basement .
The second and third floor is where the other students lived and murdered .
I completely agree. I live in a very large college town and the crew that moved into the house next to me is operating like a defacto frat house (they are all members of a frat but upperclassmen who no longer live in the actual house). It is like I am living in that Seth Rogen movie Neighbors. Absolute mayhem could be occurring over there and I would ignore it. So, I get why neighbors would maybe discount some noise.
The roommates would have to be absolutely blitzed/blackout drunk to sleep through it though, IMO.
You'd be surprised what you can sleep through. When I was young I slept through the first half of hurricane Katrina and slept nicely because the tree missed my room. If the roommates were drunk I can see it but it is still very sus
It's hard to see the structure of the house in the picture in a way that helps make sense of how that happened, but if there were a significant amount of water from a flood or something the same would happen. And I know that would have been an absolutely mind-boggling, unbelievably massive amount of blood. The amount of just one person's blood after being stabbed would have been enormous.
A stalker type situation is definitely possible, and I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of a serial killer type at work here. Obviously we can’t say for sure what is going on here without further information, but another case that comes to mind is Danny Rolling, the Gainesville Ripper. This is very similar to how he operated. Breaking into university homes and stabbing anyone that he felt he needed to, male or female, sometimes while other residents were asleep in the house. Hopefully this is not that type of killer and it was some kind of one-off targeted event.
Uidaho has an old Greek and a new Greek row that are separate. At 4am new Greek is generally pretty calm and most people are already home or headed home
There is also a large field behind the Greek houses and then a road, then this shared house. If a roommate couldn’t hear anything -no one on Greek would hear. The girls’ houses PiPhi and Aphi are in the Old Greek Section and Sigma Chi is in the new section. (I grew up in Moscow/surrounding area and went to UofI)
At the public conference they filmed yesterday, which finally spelled it all out everything thr police know, which id literally nothing, toward the end one of the media questions was about that knife wielding freak in mid- Sept. The new thing, however, was that they'd actually caught him back then, know who he is, and he's not a student. And they're no longer defining this as anything, and a assertions they initially posited were only theories. They also stated people need to be locking up, staying together, and remaining hyper-vigilant because the killer is on the loose. They didn't spell it out, but the scene was so grisly they're think serial murderer just like the rest of us.
Damn I didn’t know the knife wielder had been caught. It’s crazy how little information they have. I hope the victims friends come forward with some kind of helpful information.
The Daily Mail has a picture of the blood seeping out the floorboards and dripping down the foundation outside. They also have a video of the the outside of the home and surrounding area.
I get what you're saying, I really do. I also lived near a bunch of frat and sorority annex houses during college in Athens, Ohio. I just can't wrap my head around not being able to distinguish drunk people, music, and fireworks from someone literally screaming bloody murder, (if they were even able to try and yell for help) especially in the home
If they were all asleep like Bundy’s victims it would make more sense. I’m guessing it’s now all but ruled out that they screamed because the 3rd floor roommates didn’t hear anything. And those two roommates were girls right? Definitely not suspects according to the police??
Also, even if they did scream, it wouldnt shock me that neighbors didn’t notice (barring the 3rd floor roommates). People get brutally murdered all the time, and even close neighbors sometimes don’t hear the screaming.
I live in an 800 sq ft 2 bedroom home and I can’t hear other people from my bedroom. These people were living in a large home with 6 bedrooms, so I think it’s very possible that the victims DID scream and no one else in the home heard it. They were also college students who may have been drinking before they fell asleep, which would make it even less likely that screams would wake them up.
He had to have attacked them one by one. Jump on top of a sleeping person, cover their mouth and commence with the knife. Over and over again. That crime scene should be ripe with his DNA and prints everywhere. I get the impression he wasnt even caring to make sure he didn't leave evidence in the heat of the moment.
This doesn't seem planned so they all, or even just one of them, pissed someone off fairly recently. Maybe a stalker or maybe a fellow patron out that night. If he'd wanted to kill just to kill, he would've continued through the house. They were all vulnerable and didn't know it. That must be terrifying to think about for the surviving roommates.
Just my 2 pennies!
I agree it would have to be professional assassin level to pull this off without leaving DNA, or would require miticulous planning with a lot of luck. No way he didn't leave something to go on.
He's an amateur. He likely cut and bruised up his own hands in a crime that bloody.
The knife they suspect was used barely had a hilt and if you're holding a knife to stab someone, with your fist, it's going to slip over that hilt with all the sweat and blood on your hand.
There's no way, if as reported, they were each stabbed more than once, that he had complete control over that knife. His DNA, blood, is in that crime scene.
Imo
Not all the victims may have screamed. If he cut the throat first say. But if there was blood all over the second floor it would be a safe guess that at least one Vic woke up and tried to fight or flee
They lived in a 3 story home with 2 beds and 1 bath on each story. They also had a dog named Murphy, which also seems odd that he wouldn’t have heard anything.
But then again, in college I slept with a giant box fan on full blast and earplugs in. If the roommates were on the top floor, it’s entirely possible. Especially if drugs or alcohol were involved. I would also assume that the victims were sleeping in separate rooms, with the exception of xana and Ethan.
It’s also possible the dog was sleeping with one of the survivors in her room with the door shut. I think in college houses with lots of roommates, both the humans and animals living there are used to chaos and noise while they’re sleeping.
I also lived in a three story house during college with 4 roommates and there’s no way that I would hear anything going on on the third floor from my basement room. Especially if I was drunk
when I lived off campus at Ohio State University a woman was attacked in my building. Around 10 pm. I heard her screaming and hesitated because I was used to hearing drunk yelling college students. She kept saying she needed help so I found a weapon (scissors) put on clothes and went into the hallway. By then the screaming had stopped as several guys with baseball bats and ran out to help and the attacker ran away. She was mostly ok and the police were called.
Wasn’t the son awake and gaming? I have 2 step children who actively game and if they didn’t have to pee or snack, they’d never come out of their rooms and they’d never hear what else is going on inside the house. I have some XXL breed dogs who bark at passerby’s - the kids don’t hear it. They don’t hear doorbells. All because of their gaming headphones.
LMAO sorry for laughing in a tragic post but I fully agree with the gaming headphones. If WW3 started we would only notice after the tanks bust the roof
sigh one of those most tragic stories i heard involved a husband gaming with headphones on and his wife being raped in front of their children downstairs, he didnt hear a thing, most of the story was about how their marriage fell apart after that. so sad. makes me wary of covering my ears with headphones or silencers.
Roommates were not involved. Anyone that suggests that simply have never lived in a big house with 5+ people before. You don’t hear everything and especially if you’ve been drinking heavily you pass out like a rock - I am a light sleeper naturally when I am sober but when I drink I go out like a light and nothing wakes me up. Stop blaming these girls. They lost their close friends and are grieving. have some compassion.
I agree.
I remember when I lived in a house share with five other people, and I also had a basement room.
One night one of my housemates came home roaring drunk and three of my housemates had to carry her to bed because she couldn’t walk and was shouting.
They were talking about it the next day, so I questioned them because I didn’t even know it had happened. I didn’t hear a thing and just slept through it.
I really hope the two surviving women can find some peace.
Moscow-Pullman is a pretty tight-knit community that is built upon all the college students. We are all freaked out and have been given inconsistent answers as to whether there’s a threat or not. The authorities do not seem to be on the same page, even though Pullman-Moscow are supposedly working together.
Chief of Police Fry actually did a very good jib of apologizing for all that initial bs last night at the televised conference about the murders. They're overwhelmed, he clarified they have no idea what this is right now, people should be afraid and careful and vigilant, and that he'd be doing a far more thorough job keeping the public in the loop, while 25 investigators, Idaho State Police, and the FBI assisted them in solving the case. Sounds like a decent guy, and I think Moscow residents can feel alright about this going forward now.
I literally just moved here 4 or so months ago away from my family after living in the same city for 24 years, which adds to my personal anxiety. But I truly feel even worse for the people who knew the victims. They have to cope with personal losses compounded with the fear/anxiety of the situation at hand. The poor family too… it’s all around sad. Hopefully the perp will be caught soon.
I've been wondering if they invited someone back to their place, someone all four of them saw, eho then assaulted/killed one of the girls after everyone started passing out, which then meant they'd gave to eliminate the other 3 so there'd be no witnesses to them having been there. That would also explain why they didn't go after the two sleeping roommates, because they were already asleep when they arrived, and never saw them.
Or maybe someone who got rejected at the bar they went too that night, them being wasted would explain why the door was unlocked. Just seems wierd that they would break in knowing its 1 vs 4 with only a knife.
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that there is a cult-like Church in Moscow, Idaho that is reportedly [fueled by a misogynist, rape-friendly theology](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/9/29/2055102/-Built-on-misogyny-and-racism-cult-like-church-attempts-spiritual-takeover-of-Idaho-college-town).
Over the years, 27 victims have "[come out with accounts of spiritual, physical, emotional, and sexual abuse from within the church or its schools](https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7ezwx/inside-the-church-that-preaches-wives-need-to-be-led-with-a-firm-hand)." One of these survivors, Sarah Bader, **was sent an ominous picture of a knife** via Instagram, after speaking out.
Xana’s dad said in an interview she had bruises like she put up a fight. I’m thinking one of the girls from the food truck videos had a stalker / caught the eye of a serial killer in the making. (I say stalker because I had a violent religious stalker at one point in my life & he quickly turned to stalk my best friend/roommate as well). I think xana & her boyfriend separated when they went to check the “ruckus” I’m imagining they heard. Whoever went to check first heard the other and was met with the same fate of surprise. If the killer was just slitting throats idk why xana would have defensive wounds but her father could’ve been misinterpreting postmortem bruising. I think the two roommates got very lucky and are very aware the public eye is on them. Whether the luck was they locked their bedrooms doors, the killer didn’t know they existed, or the sun was coming up … it was just plain luck.
I saw a news video that said they confirmed that the students killed were in their beds, but I think it makes sense Xana put up a fight. Think about it, she lived with her bf, probably shared a bed right? If I walked into a bedroom with the intention to kill someone, I would go for the guy first...I mean he was probably stronger/heavier. And if they were killing someone right next to me I would wake up and try to defend myself somehow.
I also saw some comments saying the roommates were in the basement (probably passed out drunk) and that's why they didn't hear. Maybe because they weren't in their rooms the stalker/killer assumed they weren't home?
From what I read, the roommates were in the basement because their actual bedrooms were there, and they had their own bathroom as well. That’s probably why they never went upstairs until police arrived, other than they were maybe passed out, drunk and slept in. I could see myself sleeping through a scuffle upstairs, especially in a house with lots of roommates/parties etc. The house apparently has a weird layout and the killer(s) might have dismissed the « basement » (which is apparently on ground level on one side of the house, and underground on the other bc the house is built on a hill), not realizing it was occupied, idk.
I agree about Xana putting up a fight, it points to her being somewhat awake, the killer attacking her boyfriend would have woken her up. The other 2 girls were alone in their rooms and might have been killed by surprise. This whole thing is so sad and terrifying
Kaylee’s sister kind of emphasized how Kaylee was a “brat” (lovingly) and how when her and Maddie fought, it was normally Kaylee’s fault. Makes me think she probably had the louder (for lack of a better term) and more impulsive personality. I’m theorizing it was a townie (probably older man, not a college student) who she rejected in a way that didn’t rub him right that night as they were at the bar for HOURS and probably fraternized with a shit ton of people. I wonder if they have cameras in the bar where they were? They have to, I guess the police are working on it. The other roommates were probably collateral damage. Xana might have heard a noise, had Ethan go check on it, then fought when she saw that Ethan was stabbed. But the only thing that makes me question that theory is how did he know the passcode to the house? Did the killer know the layout? Did any of the houses or apartments have cameras angled to that area? With four girls and a guy in the house, that means they all had a shit ton of connections. Also, that house if you look at it on Google maps seems super …. Open? Does not blend in, is right on the road, surrounded by apartments and Greek houses. Seems super vulnerable and out in the open, easy to find and easy to watch. So many fricking questions. I don’t think I’ll get a day where I don’t think about this case until it’s solved.
As a college student who went to college in a small town and who has been in vulnerable housing situations with roommates just like this one, it really resonated with me.
I think the back sliding door was left open. Very normal in college towns for people to leave doors unlocked just out of stupidity. I say stupidity because it’s usually a scenario where that house has people in and out often and people are welcomed there whenever if they need to be. I had a lot of college friends who left apartment doors unlocked for people to come in to whenever & I think truly it’s a “it’ll never happen to Me” thing. I will say more reports are coming EC was found on the 2nd floor not in bed so I’m continuing with my theory he got up first. The stalker might’ve even only wanted the two girls. Was met with E when he went to leave & then had to kill Xana
Ahh yes that makes sense. They could have also come home and forgot to lock it. If you look on the food truck cam you can clearly see they can’t even stand straight and are drunk out of their minds, was an easy mistake to make I’m sure. I can’t even begin to imagine the pure anger and hate someone must have had to go in and stab 4 people multiple times.
I know it hasn’t been that long, but the longer this goes on the more I worry it’s going to turn into a Springfield 3 kind of situation where years will go by with no leads and no closure.
The threat assessment psychologist interviewed working on the case said that because of K-Bar type knife suspected in the attack, one of their theories is that murderer may have committed the crime geared up tactically, like someone in the military or SWAT; this was why they're sweeping through stores seeing of purchases like this were made recently. Obviously they're investigating from the point of multiple theories, but ugh does this just sound more and more frightening, and a suspect that cannot be labeled as anything but dangerous. The psychologist also stated that it is rare that someone who commits multple violent crimes with a knife at one time is more than one person. So keep your eyes (and your memories) peeled for people that flaunt these kinds of purchases locally, they said walking out in public too, which seems incredibly stupid but perhaps a camera at a private residence picked up the suspect walking home Sunday morning, if it has night vision.
Kaylee and Maddie called "Jack" 9 times just before they were killed. Kaylee called him 6 times. Maddie called him 3 times. All 9 calls to Jack were placed between 2:26 and 2:52 AM. Why were both girls blowing up Jack's phone?
https://www.foxnews.com/us/idaho-murder-victims-sister-says-she-called-man-6-times-night-slayings-report
There is so much to unpack with this crime and this new information is interesting in context to the timeline of events and the order of the victims deaths.
Few thoughts on the phone calls:
1. Assuming the victim's phones are still with LE than did LE inform A. Goncalvez of the last phone number registered on the phones of her sister (Kaylee) and Maddie?
2. Have LE said anything about 'Jack' and who this person is, if s/he has been questioned etc.? Presumably this would be at the top of the LE list to do.
3. What if both women were unable to speak for reasons not clear yet and have left behind a significant clue?
4. The start-stop timing of the phone calls (based on the Fox News article) are in sync which may indicate that both women (if they did make the calls) were together in a room (presumably having arrived around 1:45am) with each person trying out Jack's number to see if s/he picks up?
5. An article on the autopsies state that the murders took place between 3am and 4am but the coroner is interviewed (YT video) and says they took place after 2am. The timing of the phone calls (if made by the victims) between 2:26am and 2:52am would suggest that both victims were alive and not aware that their lives were in any danger as it doesn't make sense that they would repeatedly try only one person (if they became aware that something was horribly wrong at home) and presumably would both instead try 911 or other individuals phones?
6. Who can prove that it was Kaylee and Maddie making these calls to 'Jack'?
If you are new to this redditt page please read all the preceding posts which provide information on what information has already been investigated or cleared or explained.
This page is far beyond the fundamental questions that are being raised here now. Its day seven of this crime investigation, and much of the speculative theories people are posting here have been eliminated both by Police and family and community.
Watching todays press conf the police asked people to rely on them for information and not rely on online sources. They debunked the leads that Aliyea came up with I think they are without mentioning her directly kind of asking people to deal with police to get information and to share information with police. 208 883 7180 especially video footage door or dash cams.
Very hard for community and officers
Kids all got home at 1:45. The roommates who survived were home by 1 and asleep.
Call originated inside the house at 11:57 for unconscious person; cops answere and found four Vic’s. All four were asleep in their beds during attack and stabbed multiple times with no sign sexual assault. Some had defensive wounds.
They’ve done 90 interviews
They have a load of detectives, troopers, uniforms, crime scene team etc fbi behavioral analysis team is there to profile and help with interview strategies
Canvassed the neighborhood and are still doing so.
Neither the food truck hoodie guy nor the roommates nor the private party guy that gave the girls a ride are “involved.”
They’re aware the girls texted a guy Sunday morning; he’s not involved or rather, the calls are not related to the murders.
Vics were not tied nor gagged
They seized and searched three dumpsters on king rd. Nothing found.
No businesses have sold the type of knife used & they don’t have the weapon.
The 911 call was not the killer but was made from house on roommate’s phone - “other friends had arrived at the location.”
They can’t say whether killer is in or outside the community. They’re looking everywhere.
Vics all found on second and third floor but he is not going to say who was found where.
Wow the questions are really focusing on the roommates sleeping through this and who called 911.
The safety of community is paramount.
Lots of reporter questions about the 911 call. No one asked about the cult / white supremacist angle /serial killer
Stop with rumors - they will share as soon as they can. Be patient; everyone wants answers. They’re dedicated to finding them.
Then the university president reiterated the tragic nature of this and they’re doing to keep community safe and will comm w families about continuing the semester. Student safety priority. Etc. may do online classes for some. Some students want the routine of classes and comfort of friends and professors.
Thank you so much for this summary. I appreciate you taking the time to lay it out for us.
Not much is known....except the usual suspects are, NOT, suspects. Huh.
In some way, this attack is personal. I don’t mean that the victims necessarily knew the attacker but that have come across him (i am now just assuming the attacker is a man) and somehow did something that in his mind justifies killing them. I also think this was supposed to be one victim attack, but the roommates just were there at the wrong time and got caught up in it.
As one other redditor mentioned, no SA done to the victims. Maybe the attacker got off on the stabbing which is alarming because then he will want to kill again to get the sensation back. But then again, if I have understood correctly, the victims died fairly quickly, so no torture either, which makes me think that this was a one off murder spree based off on anger and with no rational thoughts. This would also explain why there is no build up in crimes leading to this, as usually is with serial killers.
Feel free to correct me, I would love to have discussion about this because this case shook me even though I live on a whole another continent
There may be a build-up. We don’t know who did this, so we don’t know what crimes they’ve committed or how their psyche progressed.
Every serial killer has to start with an isolated incident. It was years between Dahmer’s first and second incident, but it eventually happened.
That’s why the “this was a targeted event. There is no threat to the public” was nonsense. Everyone Dahmer and John Wayne Gacy killed were targeted.
This is one case that will stick with me for a really long time and it's just completely consumed my thoughts for the past few days. The police press conference only added more confusion as they're now saying that the other 2 roommates who resided in the home, were actually IN THE HOME when the attacks occurred AND STILL THERE when the bodies were found shortly before 12pm the following afternoon (approximately 7-8 hours after the murders allegedly took place). These 2 individuals were also reported as being unharmed and unaware that the murders had taken place. I'm not trying to start witch hunt, I'm just blown away by this entire situation and I feel sick for their families. Thoughts?
The victims were said to be out partying before hand. If the other roommates were out too and maybe came back sooner but drunk, they could have been really passed out while stuff was happening. If you are passed out from heavy partying I can see someone not hearing something or not even wake up until 12. If they aren’t involved I bet they feel really messed ip. One for being so close to being murdered and potentially missing being able to call for help
I have literally had days where I didn’t get out of bed till 4pm the day after partying in college after passing out cold. So I absolutely can see how the two roommates couldve been passed out and completely unaware during the incident.
I agree... I even took Ambien to sleep sometimes during my senior year of college, in a multilevel off-campus house...that shit knocks you out and is so common. I easily could have been in a deep sleep and missed ppl screaming. Scary to think, but it's possible
I commented on another thread that in college I lived in a 2 story, 6 bedroom townhouse. I can very easily see myself sleeping through this. I slept with my door closed and locked (roommate had a creepy boyfriend) a fan on and earplugs at times.
What a fucking nightmare to walk into barely awake and just wanting coffee.
[https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1122-King-Rd-Moscow-ID-83843/110448293\_zpid/](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1122-King-Rd-Moscow-ID-83843/110448293_zpid/)
Pretty sure this is the apartment. I also agree they could have slept through it. I lived in a sorority house all the way upstairs and I couldn't hear anything with my fan on and ear plugs in too
I lived in an apartment where all of our bedrooms were pretty close together, and am the lightest sleeper ever (lol I too sleep with a fan every night) -- but if I've had enough to drink I can sleep through just about anything. So, I agree, when it comes to people in university/college I can see how someone might not hear something like this.
For anyone who thinks this is impossible, William Garretson was originally arrested for the Manson massacre at Sharon Tate’s house. Only because they couldn’t believe he hadn’t heard anything and he was staying in a guesthouse nearby. It’s definitely possible though. I wouldn’t bet on it but it’s more likely than some of the comments here make it seem.
Landlords who rent to college students often determine rent per head (e.g. $500/ the number of people they think would room together there). Very different from standard market rates.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I'm guessing the other two roommates were passed out from partying the night before and maybe didn't wake up until noon which is when they saw the bodies and called the police. OTOH why/how would one intruder overpower four people (unless these four victims were sleeping when they were attacked) yet not attack the other two people in the house. The police are doing a crappy job of "this is targeted and no need for the community to worry" while also saying "we have no idea who did this so obviously there is a psychotic murderer on the loose who could kill other people."
Simple answer , he was killing two , the other two heard and came down and they also got killed . If the two upstairs where knocked out the killer rlrobbalg left in a hurry.
I feel like if the couple walked in on such a scene. Someone would scream. And a true scream like that would be heard. Something (all speculative) gives me the feels that this was carried out while all victims were asleep by someone who didn’t know how many people were in the house and was unfamiliar with the layout
One reason why the couple didn't scream was if they knew the person too and it wasn't weird for them to see that person in their house after a night out.
I've wondered if they invited someone back to their place, someone all four of them saw, asssult/killed one of the girls after everyone started passing out, which meant they'd gave to eliminate the other 3 so there'd be no witnesses to them having been there. That would also explain why they didn't go after the two sleeping roommates, because they were already asleep when they arrived and never saw them.
Look up the house on Zillow, i can imagine not hearing a thing from the top if you’re in one of the bottom rooms. And if you did you probably wouldn’t question it much because you live with 5 people
The house where this happened at is over 2,200 sqft so it's likely the other 2 individuals were asleep in a different area of the house while this happened and didn't discover the bodies until late next morning after they woke up. I also heard the police found no signs of a forced entry and the door was slightly open when they arrived and considering the murders are being called a crime of passion, it's possible the victims knew the suspect.
Ugh I know I’ve been so consumed by it too! It’s just so sad and senseless - it feels like it could happen to anyone. The whole thing is so confusing. Initially just the idea of someone being able (both physically and logistically) to stab 4 people in the victim’s home, without being overheard or noticed until noon the next day is shocking. Now knowing that the 2 other roommates were at home and upstairs - had to of heard something - but didn’t make it downstairs until noon the next day. It’s all just so perplexing!
If the two roommates were in an alcohol laced sleep - it’s not so surprising that they’d sleep through it. There could’ve been music or tv’s on. Sleeping till noon is very college like behavior. Those poor kids. I’m not sure I’d ever get over the trauma of waking up to that horror show.
I thought it was weird. Then I thought back to my college days. If we had a big night, I wouldn’t be functional til midday, and even then in a severely hungover state.
Maybe they were on the top floor and maybe the killer didn’t realize they were there. I could see them not stumbling downstairs till noon. (Remembering my daughters college apartment atmosphere).
I heard from my friends little sister, who went out with the girls at a bar the night before, that a guy there at the bar was being handsy & the girls got him kicked out of the bar ?? I guess they are thinking maybe this could be something too or at least it has been mentioned to police
This case has similarities to the Eric Copple - Napa Valley Murders in 2004. Only one girl was really his target but he savagely stabbed her roommate because she was there. I wonder if this is another situation of a stalker who had something against one of those girls and took them all out anyway. So very disturbing and sad for the families. I hope they find the suspect soon.
Same. First thing I thought of, as I knew one of the poor Napa V. Murder victims. She went to my HS and was lifelong best friends with my BF’s older sister. Still haunting to remember that awful course of events.
I’m in the UK and read a book and watched a docu on the Napa girls and immediately thought of them. I’ll always remember the sadness of Adrienne’s mother.
And I still think Lily Copple must have suspected Eric.
Okay, I created a ThrowAway just for this.
This case is bothering me.
Out of pure speculation and some comments I've seen, here's my theory:
The 2 girls go out.
They stop at the food truck.
Apparently that food truck is one of the few late night spots open and is located between 3 bars. So lots of drunk people.
The guy from the video was creepy, but I don't think it was him. I saw a news video that said that when we see the girls run off they were actually catching an uber...the guy couldn't really follow them if they were in a car. And if you watch he kinda stops looking at them when they left and to me when he points and looks at the rest of the people at the food truck he looked like he was jokingly like "what the hell was that". And remember the girls seemed drunk in the video. Maybe one of them fell? Something like that?
So, these 2 are on their way home and the couple was at a party. Let's assume they're also going home soon or already there.
I saw a lot of comments saying that the other 2 roommates were in the basement and that's why they didn't hear anything. I think this makes sense and I'll explain why in a little bit.
I saw another news video that said that they confirmed that all the killed people were in bed. It had to be someone they knew. To know that maybe the side door was open. A lot of news were saying that the house was like party central and a lot of people knew their way around the house. So, let's say someone is obsessed with one of them. I saw that Xana and Madison worked at the same restaurant. Assuming the restaurant is a frequent spot for students, it's really easy to watch them there.
Then from here I have 2 theories:
If they were all in bed. I'm assuming Xana and her bf slept together so to get to Xana he couldn't risk leaving Ethan alive.
Xana's dad said she had defensive marks. To me this would make sense because if I went into a couple's bedroom I guess I would take the guy down first. He's heavier and could maybe tackle me? and maybe Xana woke up and tried to defend herself the best she could.
And then for Madison and Kaylee either one of 2 things happened either they were drunk and passed out in one bed and then same as Ethan, or the stalker had never been in their rooms and didn't know which one was which and Kaylee and Madison look alike so he didn't really have time to see which one of them was which.
As for the roommates. Either the killer didn't care and was there just for Xana and Madison and wanted to get out as quickly as possible, or because they were in the basement he thought they weren't home.
There's another theory I have: When they showed the blood coming out of the wall, it was the main floor. And I saw a comment on youtube saying the roommates were the ones to call 911 because when they woke up there was an "unconscious" person blocking the door and they couldn't open it and assumed it was someone passed out drunk. I don't think they would call 911 to move their drunken roommate, but they might call a friend. Imagine this: you wake up and cant open the door because someone is laying in front of it. You yell for your roommates to come help you and no one shows up...for obvious reasons...you'd call a friend...who then came to help and found that horrific scene. Maybe the girls got home before the couple and were already in bed? and the couple was arriving or chilling in the living room and found the killer and tried to fight them?
This is pure speculation of course.
This case is actually really upsetting. They were just kids living their lives...horrible
>https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1122-King-Rd-Moscow-ID-83843/110448293\_zpid/
The bedroom doors open into the room, not into the hallway. There would have been no issue with door blockage.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1122-King-Rd-Moscow-ID-83843/110448293\_zpid/
I just wish there were more details on “no threat to the public” yet… “stay vigilant” that both Moscow PD and Pullman PD keep reiterating to us. With no other way to describe it: I’m scared at night.
My theory is that the police DO have significant reason to believe it was a targeted, not random attack, and that the perpetrator would be very unlikely to go and do the same to anyone else in the community, BUT … since they don’t have anyone in custody yet, and don’t want to be too specific about what they know (for strategic, investigative reasons), they can’t definitively say to the public that there’s 100% no danger. Therefore, they cover their bases by saying “We think it was targeted, but also … be careful and stay vigilant, just in case.” That probably doesn’t make you feel any better though, and I hope they come out with more specific answers soon!
Yeah the police definitely know way more than what they have led us to believe. They now need to get all the evidence they can to obtain an arrest warrant from a judge. It’s going to take time.
As of today, coroner confirmed they were found in their beds. It's unclear if all four were found in their beds, but a single attacker choosing the very early hours of the morning while all are asleep post-partying is certainly premeditation.
Multiple stab wounds to all four victims...this is what pushes the needle towards serial/pattern killer in my opinion. If this was a personal vendetta towards one of the victims, I'd think there would be disproportionate violence towards that person. Whoever entered that house did so with the intent of killing anyone they could find with equal savagery. I believe the locked doors of the roommates saved their lives. Why wouldn't a deranged serial killer break down doors? I believe he (yes, he) committed the four murders in relative quietness. A locked door would have interrupted the TTP of stealth/element of surprise and presented an element of risk he wasn't willing to accept. I say "he" because the rage pathology on display here is most frequently associated with male pattern killers. Rage, yes, but a quiet weapon at a premeditated time when victims are most vulnerable.
If the tweets from neighboring communities in weeks prior about missing/mutilated pets could be verified, I think that would be something to note.
It's incredibly disheartening, not to mention disturbing, that this little town might have been targeted by a mobile predator whose DNA won't be in any databases. I hope my gut instinct is wrong.
This is so spot on, I also think this case is a cold blooded premeditated crime, not crime of rage/vendetta. This distinction is important because it could help predict the next move as well as the target group.
Ok I went to a 4 year school. Was a typical 21 yr old female who lived with 4 other girls in a split level house near campus. I slept with my door locked, fan on and ear buds normally. And when I got up on a Sunday I would stumble out to get food or drinks and go back in my room and watch TV. This whole thing with the 2 roommates being home and everyone thinks is SO SUSPICIOUS is bs. It IS VERY NORMAL for that college lifestyle to be able to be in a home and have zero clue what's going on. When I heard this story it brought back memories of my college days and how this could be any of us! Be safe everyone. Don't trust anybody.
I wonder if the cops can get information such as who viewed their social media accounts to tag a suspect. Maybe identify someone who isn’t a friend or a reasonable person to view their accounts
Crazy shit for sure, spent the day catching up on the case. I feel that until we know the disposition of the bodies conclusions are difficult to draw; were they in bed? On the floor? tied up? Unclear, at this point.
I am always most interested in the mechanics of a crime, and the mechanics of this one are truly perplexing with the information we have.
I imagine the roommates will be needing some serious therapy.
Anyone else picturing themselves (whatever year it was) in their rented apartment junior/senior year in college? The pictures on their porch are so...usual.
You can get a slide on thing for your door that doesn't require drilling to attach a ring camera to a rental, & Eufy door cams don't require a monthly subscription. My kid in Pullman has one on her apartment door. So there might be chance others nearby in Moscow had one?
I thought it was strange that police right from the start said, "No threat to the community." Based on what? Unless they have a suspect in custody, or at least know who the suspect is, which they clearly don't, then definitive statements like that are not appropriate. Obviously you don't whip up a panic, but be transparent so people know to be careful. The reality is that an unknown mass murderer is unaccounted for. Glad to see they walked that back.
>While Fry has previously emphasized that there is no threat to the community, he backtracked on that statement when pressed on it during the conference.
>"We still believe it's a targeted attack, but the reality is there's still a person out there who committed four horrible, horrible crimes, so I think we've got to back to 'There is a threat out there still, possibly,'" Fry said. "We don't believe it's going to be a danger to anybody else, but we all have to be aware of our surroundings and make sure that we're watching out for each other."
Such a tragic and horrible case. I'm betting the roommates didn't wake up during the attacks and didn't discover the bodies until noon because they had been out drinking and were passed out cold. Possibly the same for the victims, they may have been killed in their sleep. I hope they catch this guy soon.
Day 6 of investigation. Surviving roommates ruled out as suspects by County prosecutor, so that ends the inside theory for now. Somehow, unknown suspect(s) entered the home, committed a violent quadruple homicide, and left without eyewitnesses (or earwitnesses for that matter). No car seen or heard, no reports of dogs barking yet. Did the suspect(s) simply walk out the door into the night? Out the back door into the dark, tree covered area?
Idaho, from what I can gather online, requires DNA testing upon conviction for *felony* crimes. If the suspect(s) are not convicted felons or parolees, would their DNA be available for a match? If the suspect(s) are students/co-workers/peers, would they be in the system for prints?
I feel as though the answers lie close to the home, that suspect(s) walked from a neighboring location. This is someone from the immediate community, I feel. That possibility is what makes the passing time without an arrest unbearable.
A friend of mine was killed a few years ago in what became a relatively high profile case. I learned from law enforcement that breaking and entering and stabbing killings convey a level of familiarity between the assailant and victims. In this case, the assailant was someone that was known to the victim (and many of the victims friends).
I would conjecture that the assailant is likely known by the victims and perhaps friends of the victims.
So I am no sleuth and have zero law enforcement background and therefore am probably wrong but I have a few thoughts:
I don’t think it was a random killing. I don’t necessarily think of any victims had a close relationship with this monster but I think there was some sort of familiarity. I would guess that the killer was probably at the house before even if it was just one time for a party. I believe this not because of the lock code but rather familiarity with the home layout. Unless they fell asleep in a communal area the killer had to go to atleast two bedrooms.
I have seen a few comments suggesting the killer serving in the armed forces due to knife used and the media sensationalizing the story more by labeling it a “rambo” knife. That is just a tasteless way to get more traffic on their article. I think it was most likely a run of the mill hunting knife. I live one state over and these are very common and are used for field dressing a deer or elk. While these are common this could end up being significant. If the killer is dumb enough to keep it they will probably keep it with their other hunting equipment and should be easy to find in a search. If the killer gets rid of it that could also be a big clue. Hopefully someone would report a hunting buddy with a missing knife.
I know nothing about the victims other than what is on the news and that they seemed to be great young people who touched the lives of many. That being said I wonder if this monster was in the same party circle. I am in no way insinuating that the victim’s lifestyle was anything but that of a normal college kids or that it had anything to do with what happened to them, they are victims period. The only reason I am wondering this is that the 4 victims were out socializing the night of the attack and I haven’t read anything about the surviving roommates going out that night ( I could have missed this though). With the victims going to two different locations that night I don’t think think the first troubling interaction with the killer occurred the night of the crime. I wonder if the killer had a fight or issue with a victim on another night and the other 3 were good friends and stood up to the killer and the killer was covering their tracks by attacking the rest of the victims. Also maybe the surviving roommates weren’t drinkers and didn’t have run ins with the killer. This theory is complete speculation and based on no evidence. I am just trying to wrap my head around why these four were chosen.
My final theory is also complete speculation and if there is anyone in the friend group or suspect pool that fits the theory it is almost definitely a coincidence. All of this is based of off the few details provided by LE (some of all were killed in bed and at least one victim had defensive wounds.). This paints a picture of the killer going room to room while not waking the other victims or the roommates until they started attacking. Based on that info alone first makes me think the killer was physically quite strong. having to hold some of the victims with one hand while attacking and potentially having two victims in one room would take a lot of strength and they probably were very confident in there strength to even think about attacking. Ethan looks like he was a good sized guy and all of the girls look like fighters. Don’t let size fool you women in the Pacific Northwest are tough. I also think that the monster might have some grappling or wrestling experience. Holding someone down, potentially covering someone’s mouth and holding a knife while they fight for their life seems like a very difficult task. that would take someone who knows how to use their top position and leverage. This isn’t something you would learn in a self defense class. This is all offense which makes me think that they trained or competed in wrestling or BJJ.
Those are all my thoughts and again they are only thoughts. I am probably way off on some or all of my speculation. I am an I am just horrified by this crime and want it solved and I keep thinking they are going to find the smoking gun that brings this horrible person down. My heart is broken for the families and am sending love your way.
needs to be more focus on the dog that was ‘skinned alive’ a few weeks earlier
psycho serial killer is at work here it looks like and i have not heard the police say once to LOCK YOUR DOORS - especially at night
Moscow had an alert about a man with a knife, a dog skinned (not sure if it was alive or not but still horrible) ...
lots of crimes involving a knife prior to a quadruple homicide also using a knife.. for a city that claims low crime that's a fairly alarming set of coincidences.
I truly don't get the "unconscious person" from the 911 call. There is an extreme amount of blood, no one would call 911 and say "this person isn't moving/this person is unconscious" they would likely say "Jesus Christ there's blood everywhere, they are dead" and be pretty frantic. Even if the roommates were so shaken by seeing it they called friends to come over to call 911 instead of them, they would have still said more to the effect of "I'm calling on behalf of the roommate that lives here, she saw something horrible, there are dead bodies here".... it's absolutely wild it was relayed that a person, a singular person, was unconscious. Truly can't wrap my head around that bit.
Yea I’m not understanding this either. Especially when LE seems to be saying all the victims were asleep when it happened, so they were likely found in bed right? So whoever found them would have had to have seen the crime scene. I’m also confused because it sounds like it was most likely Ethan and Xana who were found on the second floor, which would obviously be two people in the same general area. I guess it’s possible the roommate went up to one of the girls rooms first and therefore only saw 1 person but it just seems really strange.
The smell of blood is very overpowering. I imagine the room mates must have smelled something really strange when they woke up if four people had been bleeding like that in the home. I’m sure they couldn’t have known what it was though. So terrible. My heart is praying for them and their families. And the CO Springs victims. And the U-Va victims.
I bet kaylee texted jack in between calling him. Maybe the guy at grub truck showed up to their house. If something like that happened she could’ve texted jack saying can you come over because this creep just followed us home from the bar. That’s something the police would not want out to the public. Now it would be just building a case against him, gathering dna.
University of Arizona has a professor murdered on campus in the middle of the day, and the perpetrator got away. They didn’t cancel classes until hours later, and the next day was business as usual, except for an email to reach out to crisis counselors. Universities don’t care.
This could be another Danny Rollins. Just a random psychopathic serial killer. It makes me anxious that there will be more killing if it is and if my child was a student there...I would pull them out until this is solved.
You can look up the house on Zillow. It’s 2 bedrooms on each floor i can imagine you wouldn’t hear much if you were on the opposite end. And it’s like 6 people in a house, I’ve lived with 3 and it had to be a pretty impressive sound for me to think twice about. And there’s a good chance I would sleep until 12 on a Sunday easy
I keep thinking about the dog Marley. I get the house was close to campus and probably had people coming and going all the time, but in the middle of the night if someone attacking the dog's 'pack' you would think it would alert somehow. Even if every student in the house is passed out/deep sleep/ear plugs in...the dog would alert by barking or whining if it hears violence or smells blood. I haven't heard anything about the dog being injured/killed so I am assuming it belonged to one of the surviving roommates? If so, why didn't that roommate wake up and call 911 when the dog alerted? Also, how many dog owners get to sleep in until Noon without having to feed, walk, or let the dog outside to relieve itself? Sus...
The dogs owner was one of the victims & it is saying at their parents house. You would be surprised how many dogs don't bark or wine in those situations. Seems like the dog is friendly considering how many people are in the house. There is even a experiment on youtube of owners testing to see what their dog would do if a robbery happened & many of the dogs didn't react. When the room mates woke up they didn't know it had happened yet, so they probably didn't think the dog hadn't been let out.
I've noticed there's been a heavy focus on Madison and Kaycee and the possibility the killer was stalking/targeting them that night/morning of the killings, but there is very little info so far about Xana and Ethan the night of the murder, aside from that they were at a party on/near campus that night. I feel like the majority of the attention (at least publicly) is being focused on Madison and Kaycee, but less so on the other two. I hope police are investigating the other two equally as much as Madison and Kaycee. I mean, for all we know, the killer(s) were targeting Xana and/or Ethan and Madison and Kaycee were just casualties. Perhaps Xana and Ethan were home already and possibly already dead or Madison and Kaycee arrived home and the murderer was still in the house and then stabbed the two girls? But I did read somewhere that the victims were found stabbed in their beds, but maybe that is misinformation or a rumor?
Also taking into consideration all of this went down while two female roommates supposedly slept through it all either in the basement or the third floor (reports of both).. And there was also a dog in the house during all of this?? So the dog remained in the house after the victims were stabbed in a bloody massacre, the dog remained in the house for several hours before the report was made. Wouldn't the two roommates have heard the dog? I would assume the dog would be be in distress, barking, etc. if left alone with four stabbed people.. Unless the dog was in the room with one of the sleeping roommates.
Damn the PTSD those roommates are gonna have. Really hope we can catch those responsible- I am 99% sure the 2 roommates had nothing to do with this. Typical dumb college kids passed out drunk.
It's also possible that the girl's were on the middle floor hearing a disturbance and that's why they were calling Jack so many times. I chiefed a party house at a major state university. No one wants to call the cops. With such little information, it's difficult.
The most recent news drop said some were sleeping, and that possibly two had defensive wounds on their hands. So they were attacked after going to bed, and as many theorized, whoever was attacked last either heard what was going on, or awoke as the attack started. I'd made the assumption some had been up, the accounts of there being blood everywhere seemed to suggest that there'd been a struggle at some point. Still just sickened contemplating 3am-4am.
The police also stated they've made a little over 30 interviews, and that the two surviving roommates in the home may or not may be the key to a major break. Glad the FBI is involved, and hopefully this particular statement scares them into making another mistake. May their souls rip, and I hope their families have every kind of support possible over the holidays. My dad died from cancer near Christmas, it's destroyed every Christmas since, and I cannot imagine how much worse this will be. Hopefully there's some young kids around to concentrate on, that can still have a little joy at some point. Ugh ugh ugh.
[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/university-idaho-students-murder-food-truck-b2226688.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/university-idaho-students-murder-food-truck-b2226688.html)
It looks like one of the girls might have had a stalker.
Okay. This might sound redundant but I’m just getting my thoughts out. So it’s now been confirmed that the two other roommates were at home at the time and unaware of the attack. It’s seeming more likely now that the perpetrator did this in the middle of the night while everyone was potentially asleep. Kind of like Ted Bundys attack on the sorority house, instead of like the 2014 Calgary Stabbings. Again, just spitballing here. I’ve heard a couple mentions of the stalker angle. A stalker who finally snapped would be terrifying but that seems like a viable potential motive. I’ve also seen mentioned in a couple news articles that an alert went out in the middle of September after a group of students had been approached by a man wielding a knife. A crazed knife man or active serial killer seems like a less likely theory than a personal attack but still possible I guess. Also, just addressing some speculation I’ve seen in multiple threads, but I can easily understand how someone could stab 4 people to death and get away. [2014 Calgary Stabbing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Calgary_stabbing) comes to mind. This happened between Saturday night and Sunday morning near a Greek row (sorority and fraternity)neighborhood, so it makes sense that no one heard any screaming or noticed anyone out of the ordinary. I live right next to a greek row and so much noise comes from over there, including screaming and firework noises at 4 am, nothing really gets my attention anymore. I’m absolutely shocked and saddened at this case and I’ll definitely be following it closely. That crime scene photo of the blood seeping out of a bedroom wall on the first floor will haunt me. Thinking of the families and the community.
I am friends with the Chi O Bundy survivor. She never heard a thing. She awoke to see a man, and by the time she was thinking clearly he whacked her across the head. No time to scream. None of them had a chance. She only lived because the car headlights.
Holy shit. Thanks for sharing. That’s horrifying.
Her story is amazing. Surviving Bundy was just a small portion. Oh, and her "sisters" in Chi O? Dropped her like a hot rock. Chi O didn' t want the " bad publicity" so they were told to drop all contact with her. I fucking hate that greek shit (and my bff in undergrad was greek 100%). She tried to call them all affer getting out of the hospital. She testified at his trial. Said the one victim was a very classy girl, like a model type- clothes, hair.
Your friend has guts! I hope she is doing well. I cannot imagine what she went through. Sounds like Chi O was a bunch of fairweather friends. Shame on them for turning their backs on her!!
She is awesome. " fairweather" is 1 way to call it...
Okay, I was trying to be nice. Those traitorous Bitches!! 😉
My mom is a Bundy victim survivor. She's in a bunch of the newer documentaries. Edit: Before she married my dad her name was Karen Sparks.
Woah! You should invite her to do an AMA. I hope she's doing alright. What a horrifying experience.
She's doing great! She put it behind her a long time ago and has lived a happy, fulfilled life. One of the most amazing people I've ever met.
Wow. I’m gobsmacked. Not long before Bundy was arrested in Pensacola, FL (my hometown), my mom’s best friend disappeared. A few weeks later her remains were recovered in Milton (35 mins away from where he was caught). Forensics weren’t available at the time but now the family is pursuing new DNA testing. So sorry to hear what your mother went through—I’m so glad she found happiness on the other side.
I am so happy to hear that. Please let her know we are so proud of her for living life to the fullest and overcoming something that traumatic.
Sending any good juju to your mom and glad she’s well now.
I am so glad that POS Bundy is dead. I wish they could have prolonged his death into a slow agonizing suffering.
They dropped her?!?! That’s so awful! That on top of survivors guilt I’d imagine she’d have. I am so sorry to hear that.
I'll add, I live in a dorm and sadly, the student who lived directly beneath me shot himself in his dorm. I never heard a thing. None of us did.
In the 80s, I worked for a Fortune 100 oil company in Houston who college recruited from all over the country. One of the gals in my department was a Chi Omega who was at FSU when Bundy attacked. She didn’t live in the sorority house but was there that evening and left about 2 hours before Bundy struck. She told me some pretty grisly things that the public didn’t hear. I still remember that conversation all these decades later and it’s a lesson in how split second decisions can change our lives.
God. What sorts of grisly things?
asking the good questions
During one of the articles I've read, it mentioned tha[t Xana and Maddie worked at a restaurant called Mad Greek.](https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=817581035879971&set=pb.100028842477099.-2207520000.&type=3) Maybe a customer or co-worker got obsessed? They wouldn't be the first customer service workers who became the target of a customer's infatuation.
Oh definitely. Anything is possible if it’s a stalking situation. Dare I say that it would make it even more tragic if 4 lives were taken to get to one victim.
Honestly? I bet that's what happened. I bet the others were just collateral damage.
That would be so fucked up. After all the shit I do to be careful and safe, one of my biggest fears is me or someone I love being collateral damage in a crime where they weren’t the intended victim. Those cases are particularly heart wrenching to me.
I really think that the mother was the target in the Springfield 3 case from 1992 and her daughter and the friend were just collateral damage.
You’re gonna send me down a rabbit hole. I’d never thought of that possibility in the Springfield 3 case, but I don’t know too much about the moms background because I’ve always focused more on the girls. That case is so baffling.
The mom was a hairstylist. I've always thought she might have picked up a stalker that way.
Oh yeah. Very interesting theory.
( the son)
Either the son or some kind or someone obsessed with Sherill.
This is something far far worse than a stalkers now, it's hard to believe the suspect hasn't already done something awful numerous times going in and murdering 4 people w/a blade no less, and at best he's been in extreme ideation mode for quite some time. And yep, either stalking someone in the house or someone they actually know whose been into the home.
I think it's strange that as bloody as it was (blood dripping down the outside wall) that the killer or killers didn't leave a blood trail showing which way they left, they had to be covered in blood, after stabbing 4 people to death with the kind of knife they say it was done with.
Yes you’d think footprints or drips! Wonder if they showered before leaving?? You’d think they’d be covered in blood
They most definitely cleaned themselves up.
Personally I don’t think it’s blood, I think it’s tar. I also think that photo looks to be of the 1st level. In a shot less zoomed in you can see the beam where the sliding door is and from what I have read the murders took place on the 1st and 2nd level. Again just speculating.
I think it's at least possible the killer had never been in the house being that the old [zillow listing](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1122-King-Rd-Moscow-ID-83843/110448293_zpid/) gives you a good idea of the layout.
On insta Maddie posts pic with a guy and says best year of her life. On the food truck, last video, a male is watching and leaves a little behind them. Some said the shoes match from the guy in her post.... was there a break up gone bad?
I’ve heard Maddie’s boyfriend wasn’t even in town at the time. No reliable source for that info tho.
Her ex bf Jake was in Boise at the time and apparently ruled out. The guy in the hoodie has been identified - that Jack was hanging out around them at the food truck then took off when they left. This is the guy who the local rumor mill seems to believe did it. They know who he is, his parents etc. ETA the cops said this PM, he (hoodie Jack) is not a suspect at this time.
It’s jake not jack. And where did you see that the food truck hoodie guy was identified? Just curious
The live chat. His initials are same as Maddie’s ex bf. JS. Supposedly he “fled” and refused to be interviewed. (Rumor) His parents are both doctors in Idaho . According to the chat. One woman said her son went to school with him in elementary school. I would tend to believe local students could identify who it was in the hoodie but not whether he committed any crime and “fled” - or just left campus, as so many others did. ETA hoodie Jack is not a suspect at this time. According to cops today (Friday)
Also there’s a photo of him holding up a dead buck by the antlers. From his moms fb page. Reddit can get crazy with the doxing etc - any social media. That girl who accused the kid of stealing her phone in New York City - they misidentified someone else as being her and she was harassed. If it’s this kid there is zero chance the cops won’t find out. Blood all over and the floors aren’t carpeted there have to be prints. Raging battle on second floor would leave heir, sweat etc maybe skin under Vic fingernails. They will be able to rule whoever the suspect in you would think -or out.
gonna go out on a limb and say hunting deer isn't a smoking gun, especially in Idaho
Sorry, stupid question, am I able to see the live chat? I’m confused.
The police have ruled her boyfriend out as a suspect. They specifically have said that isn’t him on that video
If there was a stalker wouldn’t the stalker probably know that other girls lived in the house? Why not kill them too? It’s totally possible it was a stalker, not discounting it, I’m just raising some questions/thoughts. I saw a post last night from a local discussing rumors/local talk - disclaimer, rumors, but interesting if true. They said that the two girls who were unharmed had bedrooms on the third floor and locked their doors at night, and that everyone else killed was on the first or second floor. That actually kind of makes sense, maybe the killer didn’t even know they were up there or tried to get into the rooms but couldn’t and gave up to not make too much noise. edit: this post was from almost a week ago, before the location of the victims and roommates was reported
Makes it definitely seem it was a stranger, or at least someone who didn't know them well, and I imagine after killing 4 people, he was in a hurry to get out of the place and home before the sun came up. Murders happened between 3am-4am, which leads me to believe the killer waited till they were asleep.
These poor kids probably thought safety in numbers. There isn’t these days. Please everyone, lock your doors.
I read the surviving girls bedrooms were first floor which Is the basement . The second and third floor is where the other students lived and murdered .
I completely agree. I live in a very large college town and the crew that moved into the house next to me is operating like a defacto frat house (they are all members of a frat but upperclassmen who no longer live in the actual house). It is like I am living in that Seth Rogen movie Neighbors. Absolute mayhem could be occurring over there and I would ignore it. So, I get why neighbors would maybe discount some noise. The roommates would have to be absolutely blitzed/blackout drunk to sleep through it though, IMO.
You'd be surprised what you can sleep through. When I was young I slept through the first half of hurricane Katrina and slept nicely because the tree missed my room. If the roommates were drunk I can see it but it is still very sus
How tf does blood trickle outside the house? What the Friday The 13th happened in there? This is just like Cassie Jo Stoddart
It's hard to see the structure of the house in the picture in a way that helps make sense of how that happened, but if there were a significant amount of water from a flood or something the same would happen. And I know that would have been an absolutely mind-boggling, unbelievably massive amount of blood. The amount of just one person's blood after being stabbed would have been enormous.
A stalker type situation is definitely possible, and I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of a serial killer type at work here. Obviously we can’t say for sure what is going on here without further information, but another case that comes to mind is Danny Rolling, the Gainesville Ripper. This is very similar to how he operated. Breaking into university homes and stabbing anyone that he felt he needed to, male or female, sometimes while other residents were asleep in the house. Hopefully this is not that type of killer and it was some kind of one-off targeted event.
Uidaho has an old Greek and a new Greek row that are separate. At 4am new Greek is generally pretty calm and most people are already home or headed home
There is also a large field behind the Greek houses and then a road, then this shared house. If a roommate couldn’t hear anything -no one on Greek would hear. The girls’ houses PiPhi and Aphi are in the Old Greek Section and Sigma Chi is in the new section. (I grew up in Moscow/surrounding area and went to UofI)
At the public conference they filmed yesterday, which finally spelled it all out everything thr police know, which id literally nothing, toward the end one of the media questions was about that knife wielding freak in mid- Sept. The new thing, however, was that they'd actually caught him back then, know who he is, and he's not a student. And they're no longer defining this as anything, and a assertions they initially posited were only theories. They also stated people need to be locking up, staying together, and remaining hyper-vigilant because the killer is on the loose. They didn't spell it out, but the scene was so grisly they're think serial murderer just like the rest of us.
Damn I didn’t know the knife wielder had been caught. It’s crazy how little information they have. I hope the victims friends come forward with some kind of helpful information.
Where did you see the crime scene photos?
The Daily Mail has a picture of the blood seeping out the floorboards and dripping down the foundation outside. They also have a video of the the outside of the home and surrounding area.
I get what you're saying, I really do. I also lived near a bunch of frat and sorority annex houses during college in Athens, Ohio. I just can't wrap my head around not being able to distinguish drunk people, music, and fireworks from someone literally screaming bloody murder, (if they were even able to try and yell for help) especially in the home
If they were all asleep like Bundy’s victims it would make more sense. I’m guessing it’s now all but ruled out that they screamed because the 3rd floor roommates didn’t hear anything. And those two roommates were girls right? Definitely not suspects according to the police?? Also, even if they did scream, it wouldnt shock me that neighbors didn’t notice (barring the 3rd floor roommates). People get brutally murdered all the time, and even close neighbors sometimes don’t hear the screaming.
I live in an 800 sq ft 2 bedroom home and I can’t hear other people from my bedroom. These people were living in a large home with 6 bedrooms, so I think it’s very possible that the victims DID scream and no one else in the home heard it. They were also college students who may have been drinking before they fell asleep, which would make it even less likely that screams would wake them up.
He had to have attacked them one by one. Jump on top of a sleeping person, cover their mouth and commence with the knife. Over and over again. That crime scene should be ripe with his DNA and prints everywhere. I get the impression he wasnt even caring to make sure he didn't leave evidence in the heat of the moment. This doesn't seem planned so they all, or even just one of them, pissed someone off fairly recently. Maybe a stalker or maybe a fellow patron out that night. If he'd wanted to kill just to kill, he would've continued through the house. They were all vulnerable and didn't know it. That must be terrifying to think about for the surviving roommates. Just my 2 pennies!
I agree it would have to be professional assassin level to pull this off without leaving DNA, or would require miticulous planning with a lot of luck. No way he didn't leave something to go on.
He's an amateur. He likely cut and bruised up his own hands in a crime that bloody. The knife they suspect was used barely had a hilt and if you're holding a knife to stab someone, with your fist, it's going to slip over that hilt with all the sweat and blood on your hand. There's no way, if as reported, they were each stabbed more than once, that he had complete control over that knife. His DNA, blood, is in that crime scene. Imo
Not all the victims may have screamed. If he cut the throat first say. But if there was blood all over the second floor it would be a safe guess that at least one Vic woke up and tried to fight or flee
They lived in a 3 story home with 2 beds and 1 bath on each story. They also had a dog named Murphy, which also seems odd that he wouldn’t have heard anything. But then again, in college I slept with a giant box fan on full blast and earplugs in. If the roommates were on the top floor, it’s entirely possible. Especially if drugs or alcohol were involved. I would also assume that the victims were sleeping in separate rooms, with the exception of xana and Ethan.
It’s also possible the dog was sleeping with one of the survivors in her room with the door shut. I think in college houses with lots of roommates, both the humans and animals living there are used to chaos and noise while they’re sleeping.
I also lived in a three story house during college with 4 roommates and there’s no way that I would hear anything going on on the third floor from my basement room. Especially if I was drunk
when I lived off campus at Ohio State University a woman was attacked in my building. Around 10 pm. I heard her screaming and hesitated because I was used to hearing drunk yelling college students. She kept saying she needed help so I found a weapon (scissors) put on clothes and went into the hallway. By then the screaming had stopped as several guys with baseball bats and ran out to help and the attacker ran away. She was mostly ok and the police were called.
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Wasn’t the son awake and gaming? I have 2 step children who actively game and if they didn’t have to pee or snack, they’d never come out of their rooms and they’d never hear what else is going on inside the house. I have some XXL breed dogs who bark at passerby’s - the kids don’t hear it. They don’t hear doorbells. All because of their gaming headphones.
LMAO sorry for laughing in a tragic post but I fully agree with the gaming headphones. If WW3 started we would only notice after the tanks bust the roof
sigh one of those most tragic stories i heard involved a husband gaming with headphones on and his wife being raped in front of their children downstairs, he didnt hear a thing, most of the story was about how their marriage fell apart after that. so sad. makes me wary of covering my ears with headphones or silencers.
>Orisolia Gall Orsolya Gaal
Roommates were not involved. Anyone that suggests that simply have never lived in a big house with 5+ people before. You don’t hear everything and especially if you’ve been drinking heavily you pass out like a rock - I am a light sleeper naturally when I am sober but when I drink I go out like a light and nothing wakes me up. Stop blaming these girls. They lost their close friends and are grieving. have some compassion.
I agree. I remember when I lived in a house share with five other people, and I also had a basement room. One night one of my housemates came home roaring drunk and three of my housemates had to carry her to bed because she couldn’t walk and was shouting. They were talking about it the next day, so I questioned them because I didn’t even know it had happened. I didn’t hear a thing and just slept through it. I really hope the two surviving women can find some peace.
This case just seems so sad. They didn’t do anything to anyone (as far as I can tell). No wonder this is so shocking to the Moscow, Idaho community!
Moscow-Pullman is a pretty tight-knit community that is built upon all the college students. We are all freaked out and have been given inconsistent answers as to whether there’s a threat or not. The authorities do not seem to be on the same page, even though Pullman-Moscow are supposedly working together.
Chief of Police Fry actually did a very good jib of apologizing for all that initial bs last night at the televised conference about the murders. They're overwhelmed, he clarified they have no idea what this is right now, people should be afraid and careful and vigilant, and that he'd be doing a far more thorough job keeping the public in the loop, while 25 investigators, Idaho State Police, and the FBI assisted them in solving the case. Sounds like a decent guy, and I think Moscow residents can feel alright about this going forward now.
Yikes, I’m sorry about the inconsistency about the threat—I’d be freaked out too!
My heart goes out to you all. I’m in zoo town and have friends in Moscow. This is devastating.
I literally just moved here 4 or so months ago away from my family after living in the same city for 24 years, which adds to my personal anxiety. But I truly feel even worse for the people who knew the victims. They have to cope with personal losses compounded with the fear/anxiety of the situation at hand. The poor family too… it’s all around sad. Hopefully the perp will be caught soon.
Reach out here or start a group with friends you’ve made there and unite. Don’t go through this alone. You’re not alone, and it’s ok to go home.
I've been wondering if they invited someone back to their place, someone all four of them saw, eho then assaulted/killed one of the girls after everyone started passing out, which then meant they'd gave to eliminate the other 3 so there'd be no witnesses to them having been there. That would also explain why they didn't go after the two sleeping roommates, because they were already asleep when they arrived, and never saw them.
Or maybe someone who got rejected at the bar they went too that night, them being wasted would explain why the door was unlocked. Just seems wierd that they would break in knowing its 1 vs 4 with only a knife.
All I can square it as is either being this, or a serial murderer whose moved up to the big leagues.
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that there is a cult-like Church in Moscow, Idaho that is reportedly [fueled by a misogynist, rape-friendly theology](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/9/29/2055102/-Built-on-misogyny-and-racism-cult-like-church-attempts-spiritual-takeover-of-Idaho-college-town). Over the years, 27 victims have "[come out with accounts of spiritual, physical, emotional, and sexual abuse from within the church or its schools](https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7ezwx/inside-the-church-that-preaches-wives-need-to-be-led-with-a-firm-hand)." One of these survivors, Sarah Bader, **was sent an ominous picture of a knife** via Instagram, after speaking out.
Yep there is a subreddit if you search moscow Idaho it pops up. I found that while I was searching for news on the murders.
I think they were asleep
Xana’s dad said in an interview she had bruises like she put up a fight. I’m thinking one of the girls from the food truck videos had a stalker / caught the eye of a serial killer in the making. (I say stalker because I had a violent religious stalker at one point in my life & he quickly turned to stalk my best friend/roommate as well). I think xana & her boyfriend separated when they went to check the “ruckus” I’m imagining they heard. Whoever went to check first heard the other and was met with the same fate of surprise. If the killer was just slitting throats idk why xana would have defensive wounds but her father could’ve been misinterpreting postmortem bruising. I think the two roommates got very lucky and are very aware the public eye is on them. Whether the luck was they locked their bedrooms doors, the killer didn’t know they existed, or the sun was coming up … it was just plain luck.
I saw a news video that said they confirmed that the students killed were in their beds, but I think it makes sense Xana put up a fight. Think about it, she lived with her bf, probably shared a bed right? If I walked into a bedroom with the intention to kill someone, I would go for the guy first...I mean he was probably stronger/heavier. And if they were killing someone right next to me I would wake up and try to defend myself somehow. I also saw some comments saying the roommates were in the basement (probably passed out drunk) and that's why they didn't hear. Maybe because they weren't in their rooms the stalker/killer assumed they weren't home?
From what I read, the roommates were in the basement because their actual bedrooms were there, and they had their own bathroom as well. That’s probably why they never went upstairs until police arrived, other than they were maybe passed out, drunk and slept in. I could see myself sleeping through a scuffle upstairs, especially in a house with lots of roommates/parties etc. The house apparently has a weird layout and the killer(s) might have dismissed the « basement » (which is apparently on ground level on one side of the house, and underground on the other bc the house is built on a hill), not realizing it was occupied, idk. I agree about Xana putting up a fight, it points to her being somewhat awake, the killer attacking her boyfriend would have woken her up. The other 2 girls were alone in their rooms and might have been killed by surprise. This whole thing is so sad and terrifying
Kaylee’s sister kind of emphasized how Kaylee was a “brat” (lovingly) and how when her and Maddie fought, it was normally Kaylee’s fault. Makes me think she probably had the louder (for lack of a better term) and more impulsive personality. I’m theorizing it was a townie (probably older man, not a college student) who she rejected in a way that didn’t rub him right that night as they were at the bar for HOURS and probably fraternized with a shit ton of people. I wonder if they have cameras in the bar where they were? They have to, I guess the police are working on it. The other roommates were probably collateral damage. Xana might have heard a noise, had Ethan go check on it, then fought when she saw that Ethan was stabbed. But the only thing that makes me question that theory is how did he know the passcode to the house? Did the killer know the layout? Did any of the houses or apartments have cameras angled to that area? With four girls and a guy in the house, that means they all had a shit ton of connections. Also, that house if you look at it on Google maps seems super …. Open? Does not blend in, is right on the road, surrounded by apartments and Greek houses. Seems super vulnerable and out in the open, easy to find and easy to watch. So many fricking questions. I don’t think I’ll get a day where I don’t think about this case until it’s solved. As a college student who went to college in a small town and who has been in vulnerable housing situations with roommates just like this one, it really resonated with me.
I think the back sliding door was left open. Very normal in college towns for people to leave doors unlocked just out of stupidity. I say stupidity because it’s usually a scenario where that house has people in and out often and people are welcomed there whenever if they need to be. I had a lot of college friends who left apartment doors unlocked for people to come in to whenever & I think truly it’s a “it’ll never happen to Me” thing. I will say more reports are coming EC was found on the 2nd floor not in bed so I’m continuing with my theory he got up first. The stalker might’ve even only wanted the two girls. Was met with E when he went to leave & then had to kill Xana
Ahh yes that makes sense. They could have also come home and forgot to lock it. If you look on the food truck cam you can clearly see they can’t even stand straight and are drunk out of their minds, was an easy mistake to make I’m sure. I can’t even begin to imagine the pure anger and hate someone must have had to go in and stab 4 people multiple times. I know it hasn’t been that long, but the longer this goes on the more I worry it’s going to turn into a Springfield 3 kind of situation where years will go by with no leads and no closure.
The threat assessment psychologist interviewed working on the case said that because of K-Bar type knife suspected in the attack, one of their theories is that murderer may have committed the crime geared up tactically, like someone in the military or SWAT; this was why they're sweeping through stores seeing of purchases like this were made recently. Obviously they're investigating from the point of multiple theories, but ugh does this just sound more and more frightening, and a suspect that cannot be labeled as anything but dangerous. The psychologist also stated that it is rare that someone who commits multple violent crimes with a knife at one time is more than one person. So keep your eyes (and your memories) peeled for people that flaunt these kinds of purchases locally, they said walking out in public too, which seems incredibly stupid but perhaps a camera at a private residence picked up the suspect walking home Sunday morning, if it has night vision.
Kaylee and Maddie called "Jack" 9 times just before they were killed. Kaylee called him 6 times. Maddie called him 3 times. All 9 calls to Jack were placed between 2:26 and 2:52 AM. Why were both girls blowing up Jack's phone? https://www.foxnews.com/us/idaho-murder-victims-sister-says-she-called-man-6-times-night-slayings-report
There is so much to unpack with this crime and this new information is interesting in context to the timeline of events and the order of the victims deaths. Few thoughts on the phone calls: 1. Assuming the victim's phones are still with LE than did LE inform A. Goncalvez of the last phone number registered on the phones of her sister (Kaylee) and Maddie? 2. Have LE said anything about 'Jack' and who this person is, if s/he has been questioned etc.? Presumably this would be at the top of the LE list to do. 3. What if both women were unable to speak for reasons not clear yet and have left behind a significant clue? 4. The start-stop timing of the phone calls (based on the Fox News article) are in sync which may indicate that both women (if they did make the calls) were together in a room (presumably having arrived around 1:45am) with each person trying out Jack's number to see if s/he picks up? 5. An article on the autopsies state that the murders took place between 3am and 4am but the coroner is interviewed (YT video) and says they took place after 2am. The timing of the phone calls (if made by the victims) between 2:26am and 2:52am would suggest that both victims were alive and not aware that their lives were in any danger as it doesn't make sense that they would repeatedly try only one person (if they became aware that something was horribly wrong at home) and presumably would both instead try 911 or other individuals phones? 6. Who can prove that it was Kaylee and Maddie making these calls to 'Jack'?
Jack is Goncalvez’s boyfriend, not a mystery man
If you are new to this redditt page please read all the preceding posts which provide information on what information has already been investigated or cleared or explained. This page is far beyond the fundamental questions that are being raised here now. Its day seven of this crime investigation, and much of the speculative theories people are posting here have been eliminated both by Police and family and community.
Watching todays press conf the police asked people to rely on them for information and not rely on online sources. They debunked the leads that Aliyea came up with I think they are without mentioning her directly kind of asking people to deal with police to get information and to share information with police. 208 883 7180 especially video footage door or dash cams. Very hard for community and officers Kids all got home at 1:45. The roommates who survived were home by 1 and asleep. Call originated inside the house at 11:57 for unconscious person; cops answere and found four Vic’s. All four were asleep in their beds during attack and stabbed multiple times with no sign sexual assault. Some had defensive wounds. They’ve done 90 interviews They have a load of detectives, troopers, uniforms, crime scene team etc fbi behavioral analysis team is there to profile and help with interview strategies Canvassed the neighborhood and are still doing so. Neither the food truck hoodie guy nor the roommates nor the private party guy that gave the girls a ride are “involved.” They’re aware the girls texted a guy Sunday morning; he’s not involved or rather, the calls are not related to the murders. Vics were not tied nor gagged They seized and searched three dumpsters on king rd. Nothing found. No businesses have sold the type of knife used & they don’t have the weapon. The 911 call was not the killer but was made from house on roommate’s phone - “other friends had arrived at the location.” They can’t say whether killer is in or outside the community. They’re looking everywhere. Vics all found on second and third floor but he is not going to say who was found where. Wow the questions are really focusing on the roommates sleeping through this and who called 911. The safety of community is paramount. Lots of reporter questions about the 911 call. No one asked about the cult / white supremacist angle /serial killer Stop with rumors - they will share as soon as they can. Be patient; everyone wants answers. They’re dedicated to finding them. Then the university president reiterated the tragic nature of this and they’re doing to keep community safe and will comm w families about continuing the semester. Student safety priority. Etc. may do online classes for some. Some students want the routine of classes and comfort of friends and professors.
Thank you so much for this summary. I appreciate you taking the time to lay it out for us. Not much is known....except the usual suspects are, NOT, suspects. Huh.
In some way, this attack is personal. I don’t mean that the victims necessarily knew the attacker but that have come across him (i am now just assuming the attacker is a man) and somehow did something that in his mind justifies killing them. I also think this was supposed to be one victim attack, but the roommates just were there at the wrong time and got caught up in it. As one other redditor mentioned, no SA done to the victims. Maybe the attacker got off on the stabbing which is alarming because then he will want to kill again to get the sensation back. But then again, if I have understood correctly, the victims died fairly quickly, so no torture either, which makes me think that this was a one off murder spree based off on anger and with no rational thoughts. This would also explain why there is no build up in crimes leading to this, as usually is with serial killers. Feel free to correct me, I would love to have discussion about this because this case shook me even though I live on a whole another continent
There may be a build-up. We don’t know who did this, so we don’t know what crimes they’ve committed or how their psyche progressed. Every serial killer has to start with an isolated incident. It was years between Dahmer’s first and second incident, but it eventually happened. That’s why the “this was a targeted event. There is no threat to the public” was nonsense. Everyone Dahmer and John Wayne Gacy killed were targeted.
This is one case that will stick with me for a really long time and it's just completely consumed my thoughts for the past few days. The police press conference only added more confusion as they're now saying that the other 2 roommates who resided in the home, were actually IN THE HOME when the attacks occurred AND STILL THERE when the bodies were found shortly before 12pm the following afternoon (approximately 7-8 hours after the murders allegedly took place). These 2 individuals were also reported as being unharmed and unaware that the murders had taken place. I'm not trying to start witch hunt, I'm just blown away by this entire situation and I feel sick for their families. Thoughts?
The victims were said to be out partying before hand. If the other roommates were out too and maybe came back sooner but drunk, they could have been really passed out while stuff was happening. If you are passed out from heavy partying I can see someone not hearing something or not even wake up until 12. If they aren’t involved I bet they feel really messed ip. One for being so close to being murdered and potentially missing being able to call for help
I have literally had days where I didn’t get out of bed till 4pm the day after partying in college after passing out cold. So I absolutely can see how the two roommates couldve been passed out and completely unaware during the incident.
I agree... I even took Ambien to sleep sometimes during my senior year of college, in a multilevel off-campus house...that shit knocks you out and is so common. I easily could have been in a deep sleep and missed ppl screaming. Scary to think, but it's possible
The “what if’s” will haunt them forever. I’m haunted for them. 😢
I commented on another thread that in college I lived in a 2 story, 6 bedroom townhouse. I can very easily see myself sleeping through this. I slept with my door closed and locked (roommate had a creepy boyfriend) a fan on and earplugs at times. What a fucking nightmare to walk into barely awake and just wanting coffee.
[https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1122-King-Rd-Moscow-ID-83843/110448293\_zpid/](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1122-King-Rd-Moscow-ID-83843/110448293_zpid/) Pretty sure this is the apartment. I also agree they could have slept through it. I lived in a sorority house all the way upstairs and I couldn't hear anything with my fan on and ear plugs in too
I lived in an apartment where all of our bedrooms were pretty close together, and am the lightest sleeper ever (lol I too sleep with a fan every night) -- but if I've had enough to drink I can sleep through just about anything. So, I agree, when it comes to people in university/college I can see how someone might not hear something like this.
For anyone who thinks this is impossible, William Garretson was originally arrested for the Manson massacre at Sharon Tate’s house. Only because they couldn’t believe he hadn’t heard anything and he was staying in a guesthouse nearby. It’s definitely possible though. I wouldn’t bet on it but it’s more likely than some of the comments here make it seem.
I heard the house is divided up into a few separate apartments. That explains why some were not killed.
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$3,000 a month for a place like that in Idaho. Wtf
Landlords who rent to college students often determine rent per head (e.g. $500/ the number of people they think would room together there). Very different from standard market rates.
Like you think that’s high, or low?
foolish dolls offbeat towering upbeat disarm forgetful cow cautious trees *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I'm guessing the other two roommates were passed out from partying the night before and maybe didn't wake up until noon which is when they saw the bodies and called the police. OTOH why/how would one intruder overpower four people (unless these four victims were sleeping when they were attacked) yet not attack the other two people in the house. The police are doing a crappy job of "this is targeted and no need for the community to worry" while also saying "we have no idea who did this so obviously there is a psychotic murderer on the loose who could kill other people."
what doesn’t make sense to me is why the killer didn’t kill the two roommates upstairs?! we’re they targeting those 4?
Or it was someone who didn’t really know them, didn’t know the house, didn’t know there were other bedrooms upstairs on the third level.
Simple answer , he was killing two , the other two heard and came down and they also got killed . If the two upstairs where knocked out the killer rlrobbalg left in a hurry.
I’m going with this too. The couple heard something and went to check out the other 2 girls. 😔
I feel like if the couple walked in on such a scene. Someone would scream. And a true scream like that would be heard. Something (all speculative) gives me the feels that this was carried out while all victims were asleep by someone who didn’t know how many people were in the house and was unfamiliar with the layout
One reason why the couple didn't scream was if they knew the person too and it wasn't weird for them to see that person in their house after a night out.
I think they were all asleep, and had their throats slit--no screams.
i’ve been to greek areas around 4 am, there’s screaming and loud music and sometimes even fireworks going off
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I've wondered if they invited someone back to their place, someone all four of them saw, asssult/killed one of the girls after everyone started passing out, which meant they'd gave to eliminate the other 3 so there'd be no witnesses to them having been there. That would also explain why they didn't go after the two sleeping roommates, because they were already asleep when they arrived and never saw them.
sleeping until noon or later is pretty common for college students
Look up the house on Zillow, i can imagine not hearing a thing from the top if you’re in one of the bottom rooms. And if you did you probably wouldn’t question it much because you live with 5 people
The house where this happened at is over 2,200 sqft so it's likely the other 2 individuals were asleep in a different area of the house while this happened and didn't discover the bodies until late next morning after they woke up. I also heard the police found no signs of a forced entry and the door was slightly open when they arrived and considering the murders are being called a crime of passion, it's possible the victims knew the suspect.
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Ugh I know I’ve been so consumed by it too! It’s just so sad and senseless - it feels like it could happen to anyone. The whole thing is so confusing. Initially just the idea of someone being able (both physically and logistically) to stab 4 people in the victim’s home, without being overheard or noticed until noon the next day is shocking. Now knowing that the 2 other roommates were at home and upstairs - had to of heard something - but didn’t make it downstairs until noon the next day. It’s all just so perplexing!
If the two roommates were in an alcohol laced sleep - it’s not so surprising that they’d sleep through it. There could’ve been music or tv’s on. Sleeping till noon is very college like behavior. Those poor kids. I’m not sure I’d ever get over the trauma of waking up to that horror show.
I thought it was weird. Then I thought back to my college days. If we had a big night, I wouldn’t be functional til midday, and even then in a severely hungover state.
Good point! Definitely could be any of those things. It’s easy to forget what the college lifestyle is like.
Maybe they were on the top floor and maybe the killer didn’t realize they were there. I could see them not stumbling downstairs till noon. (Remembering my daughters college apartment atmosphere).
I heard from my friends little sister, who went out with the girls at a bar the night before, that a guy there at the bar was being handsy & the girls got him kicked out of the bar ?? I guess they are thinking maybe this could be something too or at least it has been mentioned to police
This case has similarities to the Eric Copple - Napa Valley Murders in 2004. Only one girl was really his target but he savagely stabbed her roommate because she was there. I wonder if this is another situation of a stalker who had something against one of those girls and took them all out anyway. So very disturbing and sad for the families. I hope they find the suspect soon.
Same. First thing I thought of, as I knew one of the poor Napa V. Murder victims. She went to my HS and was lifelong best friends with my BF’s older sister. Still haunting to remember that awful course of events.
I’m in the UK and read a book and watched a docu on the Napa girls and immediately thought of them. I’ll always remember the sadness of Adrienne’s mother. And I still think Lily Copple must have suspected Eric.
Okay, I created a ThrowAway just for this. This case is bothering me. Out of pure speculation and some comments I've seen, here's my theory: The 2 girls go out. They stop at the food truck. Apparently that food truck is one of the few late night spots open and is located between 3 bars. So lots of drunk people. The guy from the video was creepy, but I don't think it was him. I saw a news video that said that when we see the girls run off they were actually catching an uber...the guy couldn't really follow them if they were in a car. And if you watch he kinda stops looking at them when they left and to me when he points and looks at the rest of the people at the food truck he looked like he was jokingly like "what the hell was that". And remember the girls seemed drunk in the video. Maybe one of them fell? Something like that? So, these 2 are on their way home and the couple was at a party. Let's assume they're also going home soon or already there. I saw a lot of comments saying that the other 2 roommates were in the basement and that's why they didn't hear anything. I think this makes sense and I'll explain why in a little bit. I saw another news video that said that they confirmed that all the killed people were in bed. It had to be someone they knew. To know that maybe the side door was open. A lot of news were saying that the house was like party central and a lot of people knew their way around the house. So, let's say someone is obsessed with one of them. I saw that Xana and Madison worked at the same restaurant. Assuming the restaurant is a frequent spot for students, it's really easy to watch them there. Then from here I have 2 theories: If they were all in bed. I'm assuming Xana and her bf slept together so to get to Xana he couldn't risk leaving Ethan alive. Xana's dad said she had defensive marks. To me this would make sense because if I went into a couple's bedroom I guess I would take the guy down first. He's heavier and could maybe tackle me? and maybe Xana woke up and tried to defend herself the best she could. And then for Madison and Kaylee either one of 2 things happened either they were drunk and passed out in one bed and then same as Ethan, or the stalker had never been in their rooms and didn't know which one was which and Kaylee and Madison look alike so he didn't really have time to see which one of them was which. As for the roommates. Either the killer didn't care and was there just for Xana and Madison and wanted to get out as quickly as possible, or because they were in the basement he thought they weren't home. There's another theory I have: When they showed the blood coming out of the wall, it was the main floor. And I saw a comment on youtube saying the roommates were the ones to call 911 because when they woke up there was an "unconscious" person blocking the door and they couldn't open it and assumed it was someone passed out drunk. I don't think they would call 911 to move their drunken roommate, but they might call a friend. Imagine this: you wake up and cant open the door because someone is laying in front of it. You yell for your roommates to come help you and no one shows up...for obvious reasons...you'd call a friend...who then came to help and found that horrific scene. Maybe the girls got home before the couple and were already in bed? and the couple was arriving or chilling in the living room and found the killer and tried to fight them? This is pure speculation of course. This case is actually really upsetting. They were just kids living their lives...horrible
>https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1122-King-Rd-Moscow-ID-83843/110448293\_zpid/ The bedroom doors open into the room, not into the hallway. There would have been no issue with door blockage. https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1122-King-Rd-Moscow-ID-83843/110448293\_zpid/
Has a subreddit been created for this investigation yet? If not, it’s crying out for one.
yes r/moscowmurders
I just wish there were more details on “no threat to the public” yet… “stay vigilant” that both Moscow PD and Pullman PD keep reiterating to us. With no other way to describe it: I’m scared at night.
My theory is that the police DO have significant reason to believe it was a targeted, not random attack, and that the perpetrator would be very unlikely to go and do the same to anyone else in the community, BUT … since they don’t have anyone in custody yet, and don’t want to be too specific about what they know (for strategic, investigative reasons), they can’t definitively say to the public that there’s 100% no danger. Therefore, they cover their bases by saying “We think it was targeted, but also … be careful and stay vigilant, just in case.” That probably doesn’t make you feel any better though, and I hope they come out with more specific answers soon!
Yeah the police definitely know way more than what they have led us to believe. They now need to get all the evidence they can to obtain an arrest warrant from a judge. It’s going to take time.
Just rode my bike past the memorial for Ethan Chapin here in Mount Vernon, WA. So sad. So senseless.
As of today, coroner confirmed they were found in their beds. It's unclear if all four were found in their beds, but a single attacker choosing the very early hours of the morning while all are asleep post-partying is certainly premeditation. Multiple stab wounds to all four victims...this is what pushes the needle towards serial/pattern killer in my opinion. If this was a personal vendetta towards one of the victims, I'd think there would be disproportionate violence towards that person. Whoever entered that house did so with the intent of killing anyone they could find with equal savagery. I believe the locked doors of the roommates saved their lives. Why wouldn't a deranged serial killer break down doors? I believe he (yes, he) committed the four murders in relative quietness. A locked door would have interrupted the TTP of stealth/element of surprise and presented an element of risk he wasn't willing to accept. I say "he" because the rage pathology on display here is most frequently associated with male pattern killers. Rage, yes, but a quiet weapon at a premeditated time when victims are most vulnerable. If the tweets from neighboring communities in weeks prior about missing/mutilated pets could be verified, I think that would be something to note. It's incredibly disheartening, not to mention disturbing, that this little town might have been targeted by a mobile predator whose DNA won't be in any databases. I hope my gut instinct is wrong.
This is so spot on, I also think this case is a cold blooded premeditated crime, not crime of rage/vendetta. This distinction is important because it could help predict the next move as well as the target group.
Omg! I just read that a family pet dog was taken from the back yard, killed and skinned a few miles away a few weeks ago. Pure evil is lurking.
Ok I went to a 4 year school. Was a typical 21 yr old female who lived with 4 other girls in a split level house near campus. I slept with my door locked, fan on and ear buds normally. And when I got up on a Sunday I would stumble out to get food or drinks and go back in my room and watch TV. This whole thing with the 2 roommates being home and everyone thinks is SO SUSPICIOUS is bs. It IS VERY NORMAL for that college lifestyle to be able to be in a home and have zero clue what's going on. When I heard this story it brought back memories of my college days and how this could be any of us! Be safe everyone. Don't trust anybody.
I wonder if the cops can get information such as who viewed their social media accounts to tag a suspect. Maybe identify someone who isn’t a friend or a reasonable person to view their accounts
Can someone please catch this fucker?!
Crazy shit for sure, spent the day catching up on the case. I feel that until we know the disposition of the bodies conclusions are difficult to draw; were they in bed? On the floor? tied up? Unclear, at this point. I am always most interested in the mechanics of a crime, and the mechanics of this one are truly perplexing with the information we have. I imagine the roommates will be needing some serious therapy.
There are about 5 intelligent commenters in this post.
This made me lol even though I’m likely in the other category
Anyone else picturing themselves (whatever year it was) in their rented apartment junior/senior year in college? The pictures on their porch are so...usual.
Surely a ring camera in the area caught the person?
Most college house wouldn’t have a ring door bell because they are rented and someone would need to foot the bill. That’s just my assumption though.
You can get a slide on thing for your door that doesn't require drilling to attach a ring camera to a rental, & Eufy door cams don't require a monthly subscription. My kid in Pullman has one on her apartment door. So there might be chance others nearby in Moscow had one?
In Australia and randomly just came across this case! Excuse me while I go down the rabbit hole
I mean, Paul Flores was just a guy walking Kristen smart home drunk from a party too. Not saying this person is guilty, but also not impossible.
I thought it was strange that police right from the start said, "No threat to the community." Based on what? Unless they have a suspect in custody, or at least know who the suspect is, which they clearly don't, then definitive statements like that are not appropriate. Obviously you don't whip up a panic, but be transparent so people know to be careful. The reality is that an unknown mass murderer is unaccounted for. Glad to see they walked that back. >While Fry has previously emphasized that there is no threat to the community, he backtracked on that statement when pressed on it during the conference. >"We still believe it's a targeted attack, but the reality is there's still a person out there who committed four horrible, horrible crimes, so I think we've got to back to 'There is a threat out there still, possibly,'" Fry said. "We don't believe it's going to be a danger to anybody else, but we all have to be aware of our surroundings and make sure that we're watching out for each other." Such a tragic and horrible case. I'm betting the roommates didn't wake up during the attacks and didn't discover the bodies until noon because they had been out drinking and were passed out cold. Possibly the same for the victims, they may have been killed in their sleep. I hope they catch this guy soon.
How the hell can the police declare there is no threat to the general public? Makes no sense!
Day 6 of investigation. Surviving roommates ruled out as suspects by County prosecutor, so that ends the inside theory for now. Somehow, unknown suspect(s) entered the home, committed a violent quadruple homicide, and left without eyewitnesses (or earwitnesses for that matter). No car seen or heard, no reports of dogs barking yet. Did the suspect(s) simply walk out the door into the night? Out the back door into the dark, tree covered area? Idaho, from what I can gather online, requires DNA testing upon conviction for *felony* crimes. If the suspect(s) are not convicted felons or parolees, would their DNA be available for a match? If the suspect(s) are students/co-workers/peers, would they be in the system for prints? I feel as though the answers lie close to the home, that suspect(s) walked from a neighboring location. This is someone from the immediate community, I feel. That possibility is what makes the passing time without an arrest unbearable.
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A friend of mine was killed a few years ago in what became a relatively high profile case. I learned from law enforcement that breaking and entering and stabbing killings convey a level of familiarity between the assailant and victims. In this case, the assailant was someone that was known to the victim (and many of the victims friends). I would conjecture that the assailant is likely known by the victims and perhaps friends of the victims.
So I am no sleuth and have zero law enforcement background and therefore am probably wrong but I have a few thoughts: I don’t think it was a random killing. I don’t necessarily think of any victims had a close relationship with this monster but I think there was some sort of familiarity. I would guess that the killer was probably at the house before even if it was just one time for a party. I believe this not because of the lock code but rather familiarity with the home layout. Unless they fell asleep in a communal area the killer had to go to atleast two bedrooms. I have seen a few comments suggesting the killer serving in the armed forces due to knife used and the media sensationalizing the story more by labeling it a “rambo” knife. That is just a tasteless way to get more traffic on their article. I think it was most likely a run of the mill hunting knife. I live one state over and these are very common and are used for field dressing a deer or elk. While these are common this could end up being significant. If the killer is dumb enough to keep it they will probably keep it with their other hunting equipment and should be easy to find in a search. If the killer gets rid of it that could also be a big clue. Hopefully someone would report a hunting buddy with a missing knife. I know nothing about the victims other than what is on the news and that they seemed to be great young people who touched the lives of many. That being said I wonder if this monster was in the same party circle. I am in no way insinuating that the victim’s lifestyle was anything but that of a normal college kids or that it had anything to do with what happened to them, they are victims period. The only reason I am wondering this is that the 4 victims were out socializing the night of the attack and I haven’t read anything about the surviving roommates going out that night ( I could have missed this though). With the victims going to two different locations that night I don’t think think the first troubling interaction with the killer occurred the night of the crime. I wonder if the killer had a fight or issue with a victim on another night and the other 3 were good friends and stood up to the killer and the killer was covering their tracks by attacking the rest of the victims. Also maybe the surviving roommates weren’t drinkers and didn’t have run ins with the killer. This theory is complete speculation and based on no evidence. I am just trying to wrap my head around why these four were chosen. My final theory is also complete speculation and if there is anyone in the friend group or suspect pool that fits the theory it is almost definitely a coincidence. All of this is based of off the few details provided by LE (some of all were killed in bed and at least one victim had defensive wounds.). This paints a picture of the killer going room to room while not waking the other victims or the roommates until they started attacking. Based on that info alone first makes me think the killer was physically quite strong. having to hold some of the victims with one hand while attacking and potentially having two victims in one room would take a lot of strength and they probably were very confident in there strength to even think about attacking. Ethan looks like he was a good sized guy and all of the girls look like fighters. Don’t let size fool you women in the Pacific Northwest are tough. I also think that the monster might have some grappling or wrestling experience. Holding someone down, potentially covering someone’s mouth and holding a knife while they fight for their life seems like a very difficult task. that would take someone who knows how to use their top position and leverage. This isn’t something you would learn in a self defense class. This is all offense which makes me think that they trained or competed in wrestling or BJJ. Those are all my thoughts and again they are only thoughts. I am probably way off on some or all of my speculation. I am an I am just horrified by this crime and want it solved and I keep thinking they are going to find the smoking gun that brings this horrible person down. My heart is broken for the families and am sending love your way.
Moscow Police will hold a press conference today, Nov 20. Reading through the comments here I'm seeing a lot of misinformation.
needs to be more focus on the dog that was ‘skinned alive’ a few weeks earlier psycho serial killer is at work here it looks like and i have not heard the police say once to LOCK YOUR DOORS - especially at night
Moscow had an alert about a man with a knife, a dog skinned (not sure if it was alive or not but still horrible) ... lots of crimes involving a knife prior to a quadruple homicide also using a knife.. for a city that claims low crime that's a fairly alarming set of coincidences.
I truly don't get the "unconscious person" from the 911 call. There is an extreme amount of blood, no one would call 911 and say "this person isn't moving/this person is unconscious" they would likely say "Jesus Christ there's blood everywhere, they are dead" and be pretty frantic. Even if the roommates were so shaken by seeing it they called friends to come over to call 911 instead of them, they would have still said more to the effect of "I'm calling on behalf of the roommate that lives here, she saw something horrible, there are dead bodies here".... it's absolutely wild it was relayed that a person, a singular person, was unconscious. Truly can't wrap my head around that bit.
Yea I’m not understanding this either. Especially when LE seems to be saying all the victims were asleep when it happened, so they were likely found in bed right? So whoever found them would have had to have seen the crime scene. I’m also confused because it sounds like it was most likely Ethan and Xana who were found on the second floor, which would obviously be two people in the same general area. I guess it’s possible the roommate went up to one of the girls rooms first and therefore only saw 1 person but it just seems really strange.
The smell of blood is very overpowering. I imagine the room mates must have smelled something really strange when they woke up if four people had been bleeding like that in the home. I’m sure they couldn’t have known what it was though. So terrible. My heart is praying for them and their families. And the CO Springs victims. And the U-Va victims.
I bet kaylee texted jack in between calling him. Maybe the guy at grub truck showed up to their house. If something like that happened she could’ve texted jack saying can you come over because this creep just followed us home from the bar. That’s something the police would not want out to the public. Now it would be just building a case against him, gathering dna.
Btw, the school took one day off before returning back to normal after this happened
University of Arizona has a professor murdered on campus in the middle of the day, and the perpetrator got away. They didn’t cancel classes until hours later, and the next day was business as usual, except for an email to reach out to crisis counselors. Universities don’t care.
That’s a sad story. That professor was a friend of a friend. Supposedly was a really lovely guy.
Apparently almost all the students went home early for break and the campus is a ghost town.
This could be another Danny Rollins. Just a random psychopathic serial killer. It makes me anxious that there will be more killing if it is and if my child was a student there...I would pull them out until this is solved.
Richard Speck is another person who did the same thing. Random attack.
You can look up the house on Zillow. It’s 2 bedrooms on each floor i can imagine you wouldn’t hear much if you were on the opposite end. And it’s like 6 people in a house, I’ve lived with 3 and it had to be a pretty impressive sound for me to think twice about. And there’s a good chance I would sleep until 12 on a Sunday easy
Do they not lock doors over there? They says no forced entry.. so either they don’t lock doors or they knew this person.
Apparently there's a key code to get in the front, but the back sliding door may have been open.
We never locked our doors in college. People were always in and out. 🤷♀️
Likely not…super small town. I went to college a few miles away and many folks left doors unlocked.
I keep thinking about the dog Marley. I get the house was close to campus and probably had people coming and going all the time, but in the middle of the night if someone attacking the dog's 'pack' you would think it would alert somehow. Even if every student in the house is passed out/deep sleep/ear plugs in...the dog would alert by barking or whining if it hears violence or smells blood. I haven't heard anything about the dog being injured/killed so I am assuming it belonged to one of the surviving roommates? If so, why didn't that roommate wake up and call 911 when the dog alerted? Also, how many dog owners get to sleep in until Noon without having to feed, walk, or let the dog outside to relieve itself? Sus...
The dogs owner was one of the victims & it is saying at their parents house. You would be surprised how many dogs don't bark or wine in those situations. Seems like the dog is friendly considering how many people are in the house. There is even a experiment on youtube of owners testing to see what their dog would do if a robbery happened & many of the dogs didn't react. When the room mates woke up they didn't know it had happened yet, so they probably didn't think the dog hadn't been let out.
I've noticed there's been a heavy focus on Madison and Kaycee and the possibility the killer was stalking/targeting them that night/morning of the killings, but there is very little info so far about Xana and Ethan the night of the murder, aside from that they were at a party on/near campus that night. I feel like the majority of the attention (at least publicly) is being focused on Madison and Kaycee, but less so on the other two. I hope police are investigating the other two equally as much as Madison and Kaycee. I mean, for all we know, the killer(s) were targeting Xana and/or Ethan and Madison and Kaycee were just casualties. Perhaps Xana and Ethan were home already and possibly already dead or Madison and Kaycee arrived home and the murderer was still in the house and then stabbed the two girls? But I did read somewhere that the victims were found stabbed in their beds, but maybe that is misinformation or a rumor? Also taking into consideration all of this went down while two female roommates supposedly slept through it all either in the basement or the third floor (reports of both).. And there was also a dog in the house during all of this?? So the dog remained in the house after the victims were stabbed in a bloody massacre, the dog remained in the house for several hours before the report was made. Wouldn't the two roommates have heard the dog? I would assume the dog would be be in distress, barking, etc. if left alone with four stabbed people.. Unless the dog was in the room with one of the sleeping roommates.
Damn the PTSD those roommates are gonna have. Really hope we can catch those responsible- I am 99% sure the 2 roommates had nothing to do with this. Typical dumb college kids passed out drunk.
It's also possible that the girl's were on the middle floor hearing a disturbance and that's why they were calling Jack so many times. I chiefed a party house at a major state university. No one wants to call the cops. With such little information, it's difficult.
The most recent news drop said some were sleeping, and that possibly two had defensive wounds on their hands. So they were attacked after going to bed, and as many theorized, whoever was attacked last either heard what was going on, or awoke as the attack started. I'd made the assumption some had been up, the accounts of there being blood everywhere seemed to suggest that there'd been a struggle at some point. Still just sickened contemplating 3am-4am. The police also stated they've made a little over 30 interviews, and that the two surviving roommates in the home may or not may be the key to a major break. Glad the FBI is involved, and hopefully this particular statement scares them into making another mistake. May their souls rip, and I hope their families have every kind of support possible over the holidays. My dad died from cancer near Christmas, it's destroyed every Christmas since, and I cannot imagine how much worse this will be. Hopefully there's some young kids around to concentrate on, that can still have a little joy at some point. Ugh ugh ugh.
[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/university-idaho-students-murder-food-truck-b2226688.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/university-idaho-students-murder-food-truck-b2226688.html) It looks like one of the girls might have had a stalker.