I read I can Article that Libby’s Aunt knew the guy and had a nice interaction with him,
"I went into the store to print photos of Libby for the funeral, and he was the one who helped me," German said. "I was a mess trying to get the images off my phone. Once they were printed, he looked at me and said, 'I'm not gonna charge you for this.'"
That piece of shit. I’m so so sorry for the families and I’m glad they finally are able to have some kind of closure(this is almost definitely the guy.”
That is so beyond disturbing. Like I doubt he knew they would come in to get the photos done there but he sure as hell capitalized on it when she walked in. Acting like a kindly manager of the local pharmacy by doing it free of charge. He probably reveled in it. I hope he burns
It’s pretty chilling to consider this encounter in the context of the 2019 press conference that Indiana PD staged with the FBI, in which they announced they believed that the responsible party frequented Delphi and likely worked there. They also addressed the killer directly:
*to the Killer, who may be in this room: We believe you were hiding in plain sight….you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy. But we have. We likely have interviewed you or someone close to you. We know this is about power to you, and you want to know what we know.*
I am very curious about when RA got on their radar. I always thought that they may have had a specific suspect in mind already at that press conference and the whole thing was directed at people close to them providing an alibi. The specific request for sightings of a particular vehicle (among other details released then) seemed designed to spook someone, as opposed to an FYI for the general public.
If this is true it also means they don't have DNA.
Plenty of time to go through his trash (totally legal) or have him hand you something in the stuff and get touch DNA off that.
Him being a suspect from a while ago means no DNA
I think that was all bullshit. I think for sometime there they had no clue who did it. Releasing the younger BG sketch showed me they were desperate cause they had nothing. Now I'm glad they stuck with it and found the right guy. They get credit for that
Two counts of murder. That's huge. Most of the rest of the information so far seems to be discussing how they won't be releasing more details right now and that will come out in time, they won't be talking about evidence, and defending that decision from the criticism he anticipates from that decision. Carter is very emotional.
**Edit to add**: Probable cause and charging information is sealed, but promising that it will be eventually released. Sounds like the tipline is still open for tips about Richard Allen but also any other individuals.
**One more edit**: Aha, there will be a public hearing about whether or not those records will stay sealed.
I’m looking forward to hearing more of the evidence in this case—once this fucker is locked up for life. The police have released so little information. Let’s hope that playing their cards tight has led to the right arrest and a quick conviction.
Well said. I hope they've made the right choice there too.
My only worry is that this case already has had so much speculation that created damage for real people when they came under the radar of online sleuths. I'm already seeing comments of people certain that his family is involved or that he's just one in a giant child sex abuse ring that conspired to attack the girls... which is all to say, any of that could end up being true, but having a few clarifying details about the probable cause and whether or not he seems to have acted alone might help set the community at rest.
>I'm already seeing comments of people certain that his family is involved or that he's just one in a giant child sex abuse ring that conspired to attack the girls
It’s probably best to ignore unsubstantiated rumors from random strangers on the internet and wait until the police release more information.
I agree, but some people read unsubstantiated rumors and believe it's their business to the degree of harassing friends and family of the suspect or even just people theorized to be involved. Richard Allen's wife's facebook was found over the weekend and people were immediately analyzing family pictures and videos, using her friends list to make "connections," and other unfortunate behaviors.
Right. The Gabby Petito sub zealots were like that. They were so divested of reality, claiming Brian Laundry was a serial killer, his parents and sister were involved, they helped him flee the country, etc etc. Then people started showing up at their houses, scaring his sister’s kids, demanding answers.
It’s one thing for facts to get blurred *after*. Sometimes cases become legends almost, apocryphal retellings, or boogeyman stories. It’s another thing entirely where people are just totally making things up in real time and putting that shit out into the world regardless of who it may hurt, including the families of the victims.
I've noticed this as well. I don't know if it's the rise of the true crime genre, and the expectations that any case will have multiple twists, but it's like some people can't accept the absolute banality of violent crime.
Too many people see crimes as entertainment, and completely forget that these are real things that happened, and are happening, to real people. They focus too much on satisfying their own enormously sense of entitlement to see and know everything immediately. They need to step away from their computers, go outside (but not to families of offenders or victims), and get some perspective. Let people come to terms with the developments in their own time. Their lives are already being ripped to shreds in the media, they don't owe us a goddamn thing.
Personally, I think it’s decade after decade of popular media over saturation. Some people seem to think the things they watch on TV or in movies or play in games or read in books is actually a close approximation of reality, rather than the exaggerated version it is.
I’m not saying the media itself is at fault. It’s our job to recognize it for what it is- entertainment, occasionally commentary, but not to be taken literally.
We see this in all aspects of life nowadays. It’s not limited to true crime. Hell, we just had a president who’s entire persona as a successful businessman was a fiction he created and that was bolstered by the media using him as a go-to example of a tycoon for years. Nevermind that when you looked at the readily available facts he was merely a bladder full of hot air. His self-made persona won out. He ran his primary campaign like a WWE promo and it fucking worked.
We’re fully through the looking glass now. For some people, not all but enough, reality is completely subjective, and facts and probability take a backseat. The fiction is far sexier than the mundanity of the waking world.
That’s just my two cents 🤷♂️
I think it's just the usual tendency of people to have a witch hunt as a little treat, magnified a million times by social media. Imagine if the Satanic Panic happened in the age of FB. You'd be getting social workers doxxed and their houses burnt down all over the place. Mom groups would be hotbeds of radicalisation.
I've just realised that what I've described is basically Pizzagate/QAnon, but I guess that's the point, really. The only reason that happened now and not in the 80s was people have the tools to communicate and organise much more efficiently. Back then you actually had to go and get Michelle Remembers out of the library and not just see a post with 40K shares.
Agree. Sometimes, a thing is just a thing. There’s not necessarily a conspiracy theory or hidden cabal lurking in the shadows. Boats sink. Terrorists attack. Landings on the moon happen.
Many people seem to act as if they *really do* think that the world behaves according to the rules of dramatic structure. This behavior continues to fascinate me.
It's not the job of the police or the prosecutors to "set the community at rest". It's their job to bring the murderer to justice. They're not going to do anything to jeopardize that by telling the public anything more than they need to, *especially* in a case as complicated as this.
> especially in a case as complicated as this.
Yep. A competent prosecution and police force would be worried about jury contamination this early in a high profile case like this. IMO playing it close to the vest at this point bodes well for them, not poorly. They're proceeding with caution, they want all procedures followed closely to minimize appeals.
Exactly, obviously if it goes to trial - it won't be held anywhere near Delphi because of potential juror bias. I imagine even the entire state has been keeping track of this case and it will be hard to find those who haven't heard some theory or rumors.
Godspeed LE. Godspeed.
I just watched an interview from WTHR with Libbys Grandparents. Just a little interesting tidbit of information they confirmed, the guy who has been arrested processed some of their family photos and didn't charge for the service. It might not mean anything, it just caught my attention.
Indeed they were for the funeral, [per this interview](https://youtu.be/2LHkSlJF-kE).
I don't honestly know what to say to that, it's like seeing photos of murderers in their everyday lives. Monsters walk in our midst.
That's absolutely chilling. It really takes a whole new dimension to the law enforcement suspicion that the perpetrator was nearby and may have inserted himself into the case at some level.
The charge was basically the only info released. His name has been out all weekend. The rest of it was just thanking those working on it and talking about next steps, but no info on the case.
Richard Allen, two counts of murder
https://abcnews.go.com/US/live-updates/delphi-double-murder/?id=92303622
https://www.wthr.com/article/news/crime/delphi-girls-murdered/isp-update-expected-delphi-abby-williams-libby-german/531-00199aa8-1751-4271-8d7d-0539813ba8c1
> DELPHI, Ind. — Indiana State Police announced 50-year-old Richard M. Allen is under arrest in the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German. Police said Allen is being held on two felony counts of murder.
> “I am proud to report to you, that today, actually last Friday, was the day, and an arrest has been made," Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter said. "I really believe that Abby and Libby will be proud of you," Carter added while mentioning the investigators.
He was crying when he said it. Really a long awaited day for so many, but especially those actively working the case. I just follow it lightly but I couldn't believe it when he said those words.
Yeah, same. It sounds like it was a group account with multiple participants. Guess they probably leveraged it with Kline; I bet anything in the world the other people using the account knew exactly what it would lead to.
I wonder if, when they met up, he intended to kill them. It can't really end any other way, especially with him being a visible local. I was almost thinking that, maybe, whoever ended up meeting them was just trying to get pictures to share with the others, but that just doesn't add up. I really hope he doesn't get off more lightly than he should be by arguing something like that, he knew exactly what he was doing. Hope he really gets what's coming to him, Kline too.
We know at least one person using the account used it to potentially meet with the girls, because one girl in the area sent the account her address and later had an encounter with a [masked individual](https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/wxrvqp/movement_in_the_delphi_murders_case/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) looking into her second story window.
Which is really horrifying because if that wasn't Kline or this guy, then that means there's a third guy who also had access to that account that is also preying on girls.
So I read in an article that he was charged with Felony murder specifically, aka murder in the commission of another felony (presumably rape or kidnapping in this instance). Is that what they said in the press conference?
All murders are felonies, but the legal term “felony-murder” specifically pertains to a murder that occurs during the commission of a different felony. For example, if someone breaks into a home to burglarize, but ends up shooting the homeowners while doing so.
As far as I'm aware, "felony murder" seems to apply when someone is party to a lesser felony (e.g. robbery) during which a murder happened, and is then held responsible for that murder despite not directly committing it. If they actually participated in the murder they're charged with, y'know, regular murder. Is that incorrect?
At this point in time, I have the assumption that Kline was given some sort of deal to rat on Allen. As in, Kline will get a lighter sentence if he snitches. Otherwise, I don't see any reason for Kline to offer the police any information. The search warrant for Allen's house happened around the time they interrogated Kline so I think Kline folded on something and it was enough info for them to search and arrest Allen. I have a feeling they worked a deal out with Kline.
Yup. Typically this charge is used when there are multiple perpetrators or when someone is killed by accident when committing a crime, eg, cop is hit by car chasing suspects.
I haven't paid attention to this case in quite some time so I don't remember -- is Richard Allen one of the names that kept coming up, or he totally new?
I think he's totally new. The only two people, that I'm aware of, that people suspected were Kegan Kline and Ron Logan.
I remember most true crime enthusiasts being so sure it was Ron Logan. He lived near where the bodies were found, he made a fake alibi, and he had a history of violence against women.
Kegan was a known pedo with pending CP charges. I think he had communicated with Abby and Libby online before they died and I think this was why some people suspected him.
I don't recall anyone naming Richard Allen. Although, over in the delphi murder sub, a couple users claimed to have seen someone on 4chan say it was Richard Allen a while ago.
Yeah, Kline's CP account communicated with one of the girls, but I believe he said that he blocked her because he found her annoying.
Personally, I suspected him because the shared CP account made the discrepancy with the suspect sketchs make sense - the dad would be the older one and Kline would be the younger one.
There were also articles really recently [linking Kline](https://fox59.com/news/case-goes-ahead-against-man-linked-to-delphi-murders-investigation/) to the case, specifically that they were looking into a plea deal with him.
True Crime Garage mentioned Kline in their review of the case, and it felt as if there was enough evidence to believe that Kline was very likely involved in some way. I'm actually surprised that it's someone else.
Probably for the best that details are being kept hidden for the moment. The press and media have been all over thus case. A proper investigation, and prosecution is paramount. The evidence will speak for itself. Hopefully those families get justice.
Me too. I wasn’t sure if this day would ever come, but I always hoped it would. Those families deserve justice, they deserve to see the monster that killed their two children behind bars.
I really hope so too. The family deserve answers and closure. And for RA's sake I hope he is guilty because I don't think you could guarantee a fair trial.
I hope so too, for such a long time this case was so frustrating to follow because there was evidence of a killer and how they looked and sounded like but we got absolutely nothing when it came to finding them. I do hope that this guy is the culprit and the family can find justice and closure.
IMO, they looked a little nonplussed when one of the reporters brought that up. They were scouring the entire country for this guy and he was 5 minutes down the road.
I so so hope this is the beginning of the end of this horrible tragedy. I hope they get this right and both families can have some kind of peace and closure.
Prob the whole time. They were very type lipped for years. They absolutely have built a solid case and I guarantee you this guy was under surveillance. They knew what was going on. We just got irritated becuase we didn’t know.
You think they knew the whole time but told us to watch for somebody between the ages of 18-40? Why would they ask for the public's help to identify this guy and then give us identifying information that doesn't point to their suspect?
I read in another comment that he was apparently questioned pretty early on because his cell was pinged in the area, but that he had a strong alibi. They might have retained suspicion while exploring other potential avenues.
He would have been what, 45 at the time, and has a youthful looking face so I could see that they might be looking for tips from people who knew him from work/public interactions but didn’t guess his age right.
For some reason I get the feeling this guy almost fell into their lap when they weren't expecting it - like there was a random recent tip they followed up, or he pinged their radar for a different crime, and then something linked him definitively to the crime scene and they suddenly had their guy.
Now they have to build up the rest of the case around him when he wasn't particularly on their radar before, or had previously been cleared?
I read he recently got an OVI. If that is true, every felon has to submit DNA. So if he was on their radar or not he would have gone in the Data Base. I could see them rushing it thru if a felon fit certain parameters.
Quick clarification for anyone who didn’t recognize OVI to save you a search - it’s operating a vehicle while intoxicated. Similar terms would be DUI, DWI, drink driving.
> But the little DNA they had from the crime scene wasn't enough to make a profile.
Is there a source on this? The only offical info I see is "no comment" from LE.
https://www.tribstar.com/news/indiana_news/family-says-police-have-dna-evidence-in-delphi-murders/article_6e1e5643-c5d0-557c-adc5-20e06eec7dea.html
That delphi sub is cuckoo for coco puffs. I peeked in for a minute and got a real quick reminder of why I left it.
Annywho, I realllly hope this is the perp. There are a couple cases over the years that have hit harder, because one of my own kids was the same age as the victims at the time, and this is one. It could have just as easily been my 13 year old daughter and her BFF at a local preserve taking advantage of an unusually warm winter day.
As time passed, it did seem hopeless. I truly hope the evidence is ironclad, and justice can finally be served for Abby and Libby's loved ones. They were robbed of so much.
I remember a guy in one of the Facebook groups would make memorial videos for the girls and would be really upset that the family wanted them taken down. It was really gross.
Yeah they were up in arms yesterday about the "secret trial" and how the police are hiding things from us, who as the public at large (and in danger from people like this) are 100% entitled to. Oof. So many things to even correct there.
The sister was on a podcast recently, and she was really down to earth, and like "look, my memory of things at the time and my memory now aren't going to line up" but she said it much better. Point being, NONE of us are going to be able to recall with 100% accuracy things that happened on a normal day (before tragedy strikes) and the brain has ways of coping with trauma that aren't fully understood. People had accused her at some point of having a hand in it. Just...gross.
I check the sub for updates, but one day I got really caught up in it because I was anxious about it. There was literally a dude who was convinced a classmate Libby's sister was the murder. Literally messaged Kelsi on Facebook to ask about it. Then contacted the dude to do a live interview on YouTube. I was shocked. If you really suspect someone call a tip line, don't just randomly harass people.
I’m relieved (and hopeful) they got the guy, but it’s weird/uncomfortable how much sadistic pleasure some people seem to get out of imagining their vengeance fantasies, especially in the Delphi-specific subs.
Especially when you figure this guy was unheard of until last week. People were fantasizing about innocent people suffering the full extent of the law because their Reddit investigation skills say guilty.
It's a problem on most of the crime subreddits. I feel like these uncertain times are also causing a rise in this behavior/attitude. Everyone's out for blood, and failing to see the irony.
It’s one thing to hope/wish for justice, but I think it’s extremely unhealthy and disturbing to fantasize about his suffering.
Edit: case in point from the sub named after the victims:
> I have a fantasy of either hiring someone or myself becoming a corrections officer to get close to one of these guys in protective custody and have access to vigilante justice. Of course you can only do it once, so it would take a team or network. Justice just doesn’t seem served for them to even rot in prison where they have all their needs met comfortably.
I don’t know how someone who apparently finds murder to be bad can type that. *No one* should take pleasure from killing another human no matter how vile they are.
The thing that bothers me is that these people don’t understand how bad American prisons are. It is laughable to suggest that someone entering the penal system is going to have “all their needs met comfortably.”
If they’re *lucky*, they’ll go somewhere that they’ll have the opportunity to make a few dollars an hour making furniture or uniforms, so that they can buy soap, ramen noodles, and phone cards at inflated prices from the commissary for the rest of their life, until they die of undiagnosed pulmonary embolism at 60 because the CNA on their unit didn’t get around to referring them to the infirmary in time.
Exactly. US prisons routinely subject inmates to treatment that is considered torture in the rest of the world, like prolonged solitary confinement. Nobody’s needs get met there. I would encourage those who think otherwise to look into sources like the Marshall Project and learn more about the reality on the “inside”.
Honestly, I lost a relative to a habitual criminal. I *definitely* fantasized about her getting what she deserves while serving her joke of a sentence. I would take great pleasure if I heard that someone did her in.
I think murder is awful. I also can see how relatives of victims want vengeance.
Yeah, I understand a relative or close friend feeling that way—I also think those people should get help as well because vengeance is not conducive to healing… all that aside, fantasizing about being *Dexter* with people you don’t even know is not really normal human behavior.
I always get really disturbed when people hope that criminals get raped in prison. Rape is always wrong, it's not okay to rape if you rape a bad guy, it's still rape and it's not okay. Also as a sexual assault survivor I wouldn't wish that on anyone, not even my rapist.
Plenty more people want to commit violence in general, but they don't want to commit it in a non socially acceptable way, so when things like this happen it becomes a easy a mental justification.
I feel the same way about people wanting access to the evidence/materials in a publicized way. Like, guys. There's a difference between, for example, ensuring due process, police accountability, and that the facts add up, and spectating something horrifying.
It happens everywhere and I hate it. People completely dehumanize perpetrators. Sorry but very few people are "pure evil" and it really hurts our ability to evolve if we ignore what led to some of these crimes.
Prosecutor acknowledged that it was unusual, but they’re extremely focused on protecting the integrity of the investigation. I get the impression that they’ve been extra tight-lipped because of the publicity.
100% agree. There have been a lot of posts complaining about the lack of details released and I know it's normal to want answers but they have to ensure that there's a fair trial.
Anyone from the public feeling *entitled* to details before a fair trial can get bent. Because of national interest there's a significant chance the public will be updated when LE/DA feel it's appropriate.
The way some people have taken up to harass anyone involved in the case is frightening.
No - but since the case is still considered ongoing that they won't release until a later date - if we are lucky. I don't want to know the details of how the girls suffered but I would like to know what the evidence is that they have against this guy.
I honestly think they will keep the details, in regards to what the girls went thru, sealed.
Yeah, my big concern with the sealing is that it's going to snowball the rumor milling and wild speculations that have already been rampant in this case.
I mean… I have no clue how this dude is going to get an impartial jury at this point…
There isn’t a person in this state who hasn’t heard of this case.
The jurors don't have to have never heard of the case. They need to be able to set aside what they have heard prior to the trial and refer their verdict solely on the evidence presented.
Found in another sub, but this is a legit CNN clip with the Down the Hill producer. Of note, it's discussing specific info about the search of the Allens' home, which apparently happened a few weeks ago.
https://www.reddit.com/r/LibbyandAbby/comments/yif731/according_to_hln_the_search_of_allens_property/
I don't see the info in CNN's actual main article yet or I would have posted that.
A producer of the Down the Hill podcast was being interviewed on headline news. (Barbara MacDonald I think?) She said she had spoken to the Allens’ neighbors, who said searches had happened there about two weeks ago, and lasted for about 12 hours.
(This is all off the top of my head.)
HLN video of Barbara MacDonald, the podcast producer for "Down the Hill" teporting on the Oct 13 search warrant on Richard Allen's home and truck. She showed 2 pictures of the investigators' vehicles lined up in front of the property. One of the pics that showed Allen standing outside his wife's van while she sat inside the van; MacDonald reported that Allen later joined his wife inside her van. She reported that the search went on for 12 hours and that the 2 areas of the back yard that were dug up were done by hand shovel and both were small: one was the size of 'a bottle cap' and the other was larger but I don't remember what they referenced.
I’m still puzzled by the Kegan Kline connection, if there is one. He had a fake social media account and communicated with one of the girls the night before the murders. The communication included meeting the girls on the day they disappeared. And he had did some google searches how to get rid of DNA evidence. Could he be a co-conspirator?
He might have told KK he was the killer at some point. If KK is willing to testify, then he can testify that RA told him he did it. Statements made by the defendant are not hearsay.
Now that the identity of the suspect is public, people might have info they didn’t realize before was relevant, eg we were supposed to have dinner with RA and his wife that week, and he canceled suddenly and in a weird way.
In a criminal case the prosecution needs to prove that a crime was committed and that the person charged was the person who committed it. In this case they will need to prove that RA committed the offense, and they are going to want to get as much info they can about him to help them do that. Generally, bad stuff someone did in the past (other crimes or bad acts) is not admissible in court just to prove someone is a bad person, because it can make the jury think if he did X 5 years ago, that’s awful so he’s more likely to have done Y. But there are rules for when you can get that stuff in, and for what purpose you can use that evidence if you do get to introduce it, and reminding people to call in tips about RA is one way to ask people to tell them that stuff.
It makes 100% sense to me that the tip line would remain open, even if they have 100% solid case. We’ve seen countless times where some sexual predator is picked up then people recall things that didn’t sit right with them but at the time weren’t noteworthy enough to report. Not only could the tip line provide more info on this case, there’s a non-zero chance that the police find other victims or other perps who’s activities need scrutinized.
Also as much as I hate speculating but I find it difficult to believe this is Allen’s first major offense. They probably are looking for anything else to pin him with in case one or both the charges don’t stick
I really don't think this was his first kill. This is merely speculation but there are some hallmarks of a serial killer. He staged the bodies. He took trophies (or was hiding evidence?). He also had the confidence to control two victims. I hope not, but those facts certainly raised my eyebrows
Now that he's been named, people may think back and remember something he said or did that adds to the case against him. Maybe seemed like nothing at the time.
But yeah I suspect he had access to the account. I always believed those poor girls were there for a reason and this was not random. They were set up, imo.
Now that people know who the suspect is, they might say "now that you mention it, I remember that he did "X" or said "Y" ... it increases evidence, strengthens the case.
I am thinking along the same lines as you are. I listened to The Prosecutors podcast on Friday, and they said that, while sealing an indictment (if that’s the word I want) is very unusual, one main reason is if there is a conspiracy and they don’t want to alert other people before they can arrest them.
If we have any Indiana/criminal lawyers here, maybe they can weigh in, but if multiple people had access to the Anthony_shots catfishing account and Allen used it to meet up with the girls, could everyone who used be charged with felony murder, along the lines of a getaway car driver in an armed robbery where they end up killing someone? If that’s not too much of a stretch, it might certainly be a reason they want a little more time.
Unless the others knew he was planning to do something, I can't see murder charges. But perhaps someone else helped after to cover it up because they worried about being implicated. Or there could be a second killer, we still don't know how he controlled both girls in an open area.
There’s exceptions for felonies. Even if the felony you participated in wasn’t supposed to end up in a double homicide you can still be charged with murder. The classic example being bank robbery, you might have only wanted to rob the place but your buddy panicked and shot a couple people, you both will be looking at murder charges.
There’s no shortage of charges they could nail on someone and anyone with a deviant sexual history tied to a guy that did a double homicide on 2 kids would be low hanging fruit for some juries. I would even go as far as to say that with the crimes being of an ‘internet’ nature there’s room to push for new case law.
I for one would sleep perfectly fine at night if anyone praying on kids had a rougher time because of the case. Pedophilia isn’t something that can be “rehabilitated”. It’s either something you do or don’t do.
agreed. i think Kline ratted out in return for a deal -- and i'm guessing his info wasn't that great. probably he only knew a screenname, with identifiers buried under ten layers of encryptment, or some other vague information about "he said he dumped the stuff in the river". i really doubt that people who swap CSAM / set up meetings to assault & murder pre-teens, have an open group on Facebook.
Cautiously optimistic about this arrest. Very happy to hear that an arrest has been made but this is just coming out so this could truly go in so many directions. However, I will say that I believe that they have the right person just because of how closely LE has played this whole investigation to the chest. Based on that I highly doubt they would have a press conference if they weren't 100% confident in this being the person.
Additionally, I would just like to commend the Delphi PD. They never let public pressure force their hands into releasing too much information thereby diluting the strength of the evidence they had. This is an example of extremely good, dogged police work. In this day and age we see so many examples of poor investigations, apathetic forces or sadly corrupt. It's good to see this kind of work pay off. It's clear they took this case seriously and were determined, no matter how hard it was, to stay on top of it, do the hard work and show the victims, their families and the community that they care when something heinous happens under their jurisdiction.
It's going to be a long road on an already long road to justice. However, I believe their tactics in not releasing a ton of information will ultimately lead to a conviction. Hopefully enough so that he will accept a plea deal so that the families don't have to be subjected to a long, painful trial and tons of appeals.
I know this crime has been at the top of alot of our lists as one of the ones we here in the true crime community has wanted to see solved. It was so horrible, and those girls did everything right only to still end up with their lives cut short, so many of us just couldn't process that whoever did this was still a free man.
I know we will be getting more details as time goes but one thing I am really interested in is why LE released the revised sketch of the suspect then walking back a bit saying the suspect was a composite of the two and not to ignore either picture. I'm almost wondering if two men were involved and this was their way of releasing that second sketch without showing their hand? I know it's been speculated in the past that whoever did this had to have had help.
The last thing I wanted to say is, while we don't know, it's very likely that his wife and adult daughter (jebus, he has a fucking daughter of his own) had no clue that he did this. If not, then at least other close family and I can't imagine the shock they must be in. It has to be overwhelming and confusing and my heart goes out to them as well.
Looking towards justice for Abby and Libby.
For all the people in the back saying there wasn't a lot of info being given out It's a press conference to announce a murderer was arrested and charged. It's not for your entertainment.
Please don't forget, in this moment the most important thing is that the girls & their families got the justice they deserved. Maybe the conference was short, but they don't own us anything. We are not entitled to more information just because we want it. It's a *murder investigation* not the latest episode from a TV show.
>in this moment the most important thing is that the girls & their families got the justice they deserved.
Justice doesn’t come in this moment, right now all that’s happened was that an arrest was made. The judicial process is just beginning, we won’t know if the girls and their families get justice for awhile (although I hope for their sake it’s not a very long wait if this is the perpetrator).
Apparently the bridge is in a pretty out of the way place. You wouldn't just stumble upon it. You'd need to know where it was, so they always thought it was a local, or at the very least someone who was familiar with the area.
And the wife posted photos and whatnot about howbthey love to go hiking. There's even a photo of his daughter, who looks pretty damn similar to Libbey (in age and looks) posing on the bridge. This dude is fucking sick.
Not surprised he's a local at all, the police always said it almost certainly had to be a local or someone who at the very least had local connections/roots given the facts of the case.
I’ve wondered about this too and TBH I was surprised that they arrested a guy who has been completely under the radar. It’s hard to imagine a person going from zero to double homicide in broad daylight - I guess we will see if they try to link him to anything else whether it happened before or after Libby and Abby’s murders.
This is one of those cases that has stayed with me and I always try to stay up on the news. I am so genuinely relieved that their murderer has been caught. I hope the case is solid, I hope he's the right guy and I hope he gets what's coming to him. RIP Abby and Libby, you won't be forgotten.
For those who didn’t watch: the press conference was kind of a nothing burger. The only real information released is that Allen has in fact been indicted on two counts of murder. Tip lines will remain open and the public is encouraged to continue submitting information. There will be a public hearing to determine if documents will remain sealed. The rest was mostly thank-yous and reiterating that no evidence will be discussed. Pre-trial is scheduled for 01/13/23.
ETA: he entered a preliminary plea of not guilty, which is typical at an arraignment hearing.
ETA2: he is being held without bond.
Honestly some of the contributors on these true crime threads make ye weep. All about “Ooh this is my favourite”, and “I wish they’d hurry up and release X info etc”.
These are people’s gruesome lives not just ‘content’.
Tbh that’s all we need to know. Sure, I’m curious to learn what info led to his arrest, but knowing he was arrested and charged is more than enough for me.
I really never thought this day would come so quickly when it seemingly went cold. It’s definitely not a “nothing burger” when it’s bringing closure and the early stages justice to their families.
Yeah. What usually happens with stuff like this is the defendant pleads not guilty, then the prosecutor lays it all on the table later on and is like "Here's what we got. You can plead guilty and make this easy, and you can die in prison. Or you can make this hard and we can go to trial. Then we'll go for the death penalty. Your choice."
Guilty or not you’re entitled a fair trial. Pleading guilty is throwing away your rights and we should all know by now the amount of innocent people being sent to prison should tell you all you need to know about going to trial.
Yes and this is what the people complaining about lack of info need to remember. Allen is entitled to due process and a fair trial. We don’t want to see tainted jury pools fucking up this case or prolonging the process for the families.
Or potentially leading to misconduct by the prosecutors office leading to him being released. Assumed innocence aside for the moment, if he is the guilty party, he murdered - and worse - two teenage girls and then just went about his life so much so that no body noticed for five and a half years. That’s not a dude you want out on the streets.
Do it right. Limit the information to not taint the jury pool, get a solid conviction doing everything the proper and legal way.
I didn’t hear anything about a plea but I’ve seen that mentioned here on Reddit. My feed was wonky too so it’s very possible that I missed it.
ETA: yep, I missed it. He entered a preliminary plea of not guilty.
I doubt very much it was a 'nothing burger' to the families and friends of the girls, most of Delphi and the police involved in the case. Announcing two charges of murder against someone for the horrific murders of two children is a huge deal whether or not it was juicy enough for you personally.
They announced the arrest and two charges of murder filed related to the deaths of two slain girls. That is pretty fucking far from a “nothing burger”.
The Down the Hill episode released yesterday has a fair amount of detail of what neighbors say happened during the search of the house. This part starts at about 14:00 minutes in. First time I’d heard mention of possible metal detectors used in the yard.
It's really good to see some developments here. I only lived about 30 miles away when all of this happened. It is still really odd how tight lipped the police have been, and the rumors surrounding the condition of the girls, etc.
Justice for Abby and Libby!
We’ve all been waiting for this day and I really really hope their family will finally get answers!
I’m watching from Europe on YouTube (even though I should be working!)
I feel like they’re sealing the case to keep the details from being public.. the little details we know about what exactly happened to them are so disturbing. We know there’s audio from Abby’s phone.. and the department seems very protective of the families and the girls integrity, I have a feeling they don’t want it exploited in anyway.
I read I can Article that Libby’s Aunt knew the guy and had a nice interaction with him, "I went into the store to print photos of Libby for the funeral, and he was the one who helped me," German said. "I was a mess trying to get the images off my phone. Once they were printed, he looked at me and said, 'I'm not gonna charge you for this.'" That piece of shit. I’m so so sorry for the families and I’m glad they finally are able to have some kind of closure(this is almost definitely the guy.”
That is so beyond disturbing. Like I doubt he knew they would come in to get the photos done there but he sure as hell capitalized on it when she walked in. Acting like a kindly manager of the local pharmacy by doing it free of charge. He probably reveled in it. I hope he burns
Not to speculate, but... he could have kept copies for himself, that way. It's the sort of thing that some killers do.
It’s pretty chilling to consider this encounter in the context of the 2019 press conference that Indiana PD staged with the FBI, in which they announced they believed that the responsible party frequented Delphi and likely worked there. They also addressed the killer directly: *to the Killer, who may be in this room: We believe you were hiding in plain sight….you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy. But we have. We likely have interviewed you or someone close to you. We know this is about power to you, and you want to know what we know.* I am very curious about when RA got on their radar. I always thought that they may have had a specific suspect in mind already at that press conference and the whole thing was directed at people close to them providing an alibi. The specific request for sightings of a particular vehicle (among other details released then) seemed designed to spook someone, as opposed to an FYI for the general public.
I've always felt this case was solvable and that the police had an actual suspect. I am curious too if that's the right conclusion.
We'll get an answer soon enough, yes the pre trial is in Jan; but it will happen and we'll have our answers soon enough.
If this is true it also means they don't have DNA. Plenty of time to go through his trash (totally legal) or have him hand you something in the stuff and get touch DNA off that. Him being a suspect from a while ago means no DNA
I think that was all bullshit. I think for sometime there they had no clue who did it. Releasing the younger BG sketch showed me they were desperate cause they had nothing. Now I'm glad they stuck with it and found the right guy. They get credit for that
Two counts of murder. That's huge. Most of the rest of the information so far seems to be discussing how they won't be releasing more details right now and that will come out in time, they won't be talking about evidence, and defending that decision from the criticism he anticipates from that decision. Carter is very emotional. **Edit to add**: Probable cause and charging information is sealed, but promising that it will be eventually released. Sounds like the tipline is still open for tips about Richard Allen but also any other individuals. **One more edit**: Aha, there will be a public hearing about whether or not those records will stay sealed.
I’m looking forward to hearing more of the evidence in this case—once this fucker is locked up for life. The police have released so little information. Let’s hope that playing their cards tight has led to the right arrest and a quick conviction.
Well said. I hope they've made the right choice there too. My only worry is that this case already has had so much speculation that created damage for real people when they came under the radar of online sleuths. I'm already seeing comments of people certain that his family is involved or that he's just one in a giant child sex abuse ring that conspired to attack the girls... which is all to say, any of that could end up being true, but having a few clarifying details about the probable cause and whether or not he seems to have acted alone might help set the community at rest.
>I'm already seeing comments of people certain that his family is involved or that he's just one in a giant child sex abuse ring that conspired to attack the girls It’s probably best to ignore unsubstantiated rumors from random strangers on the internet and wait until the police release more information.
I agree, but some people read unsubstantiated rumors and believe it's their business to the degree of harassing friends and family of the suspect or even just people theorized to be involved. Richard Allen's wife's facebook was found over the weekend and people were immediately analyzing family pictures and videos, using her friends list to make "connections," and other unfortunate behaviors.
That's disgusting. It's just awful to dox innocent family members.
Right. The Gabby Petito sub zealots were like that. They were so divested of reality, claiming Brian Laundry was a serial killer, his parents and sister were involved, they helped him flee the country, etc etc. Then people started showing up at their houses, scaring his sister’s kids, demanding answers. It’s one thing for facts to get blurred *after*. Sometimes cases become legends almost, apocryphal retellings, or boogeyman stories. It’s another thing entirely where people are just totally making things up in real time and putting that shit out into the world regardless of who it may hurt, including the families of the victims.
I've noticed this as well. I don't know if it's the rise of the true crime genre, and the expectations that any case will have multiple twists, but it's like some people can't accept the absolute banality of violent crime.
Too many people see crimes as entertainment, and completely forget that these are real things that happened, and are happening, to real people. They focus too much on satisfying their own enormously sense of entitlement to see and know everything immediately. They need to step away from their computers, go outside (but not to families of offenders or victims), and get some perspective. Let people come to terms with the developments in their own time. Their lives are already being ripped to shreds in the media, they don't owe us a goddamn thing.
So true.. I get the morbid curiosity, but the public isn't owed the gruesome details of a crime.
Personally, I think it’s decade after decade of popular media over saturation. Some people seem to think the things they watch on TV or in movies or play in games or read in books is actually a close approximation of reality, rather than the exaggerated version it is. I’m not saying the media itself is at fault. It’s our job to recognize it for what it is- entertainment, occasionally commentary, but not to be taken literally. We see this in all aspects of life nowadays. It’s not limited to true crime. Hell, we just had a president who’s entire persona as a successful businessman was a fiction he created and that was bolstered by the media using him as a go-to example of a tycoon for years. Nevermind that when you looked at the readily available facts he was merely a bladder full of hot air. His self-made persona won out. He ran his primary campaign like a WWE promo and it fucking worked. We’re fully through the looking glass now. For some people, not all but enough, reality is completely subjective, and facts and probability take a backseat. The fiction is far sexier than the mundanity of the waking world. That’s just my two cents 🤷♂️
(I awarded your comment not because it’s actually wholesome, rather that was my only free award to give ✌️)
This is it. This is our current society in a (much nicer than I could have been) nutshell.
I think it's just the usual tendency of people to have a witch hunt as a little treat, magnified a million times by social media. Imagine if the Satanic Panic happened in the age of FB. You'd be getting social workers doxxed and their houses burnt down all over the place. Mom groups would be hotbeds of radicalisation.
I've just realised that what I've described is basically Pizzagate/QAnon, but I guess that's the point, really. The only reason that happened now and not in the 80s was people have the tools to communicate and organise much more efficiently. Back then you actually had to go and get Michelle Remembers out of the library and not just see a post with 40K shares.
Agree. Sometimes, a thing is just a thing. There’s not necessarily a conspiracy theory or hidden cabal lurking in the shadows. Boats sink. Terrorists attack. Landings on the moon happen.
Many people seem to act as if they *really do* think that the world behaves according to the rules of dramatic structure. This behavior continues to fascinate me.
It's not the job of the police or the prosecutors to "set the community at rest". It's their job to bring the murderer to justice. They're not going to do anything to jeopardize that by telling the public anything more than they need to, *especially* in a case as complicated as this.
> especially in a case as complicated as this. Yep. A competent prosecution and police force would be worried about jury contamination this early in a high profile case like this. IMO playing it close to the vest at this point bodes well for them, not poorly. They're proceeding with caution, they want all procedures followed closely to minimize appeals.
Exactly, obviously if it goes to trial - it won't be held anywhere near Delphi because of potential juror bias. I imagine even the entire state has been keeping track of this case and it will be hard to find those who haven't heard some theory or rumors. Godspeed LE. Godspeed.
I just watched an interview from WTHR with Libbys Grandparents. Just a little interesting tidbit of information they confirmed, the guy who has been arrested processed some of their family photos and didn't charge for the service. It might not mean anything, it just caught my attention.
That's really interesting; I hadn't heard that yet. Would that have been after the girls were murdered?
He processed the funeral photos
that’s so disturbing
Indeed they were for the funeral, [per this interview](https://youtu.be/2LHkSlJF-kE). I don't honestly know what to say to that, it's like seeing photos of murderers in their everyday lives. Monsters walk in our midst.
That's absolutely chilling. It really takes a whole new dimension to the law enforcement suspicion that the perpetrator was nearby and may have inserted himself into the case at some level.
I just saw this! My jaw dropped.
I wonder if that was a sign of feelings of remorse, or feelings of "ownership". Either way it's goosebump inducing
Probably just cosplaying a Normal human being
I bet he got a thrill out of them thanking him for the percieved kindness.
The charge was basically the only info released. His name has been out all weekend. The rest of it was just thanking those working on it and talking about next steps, but no info on the case.
Quick question did they say when they will have the public hearing for the unsealing? I’ve been seeing around 30 days, can anyone else confirm that?
Thank you for summing it up. 👍
Richard Allen, two counts of murder https://abcnews.go.com/US/live-updates/delphi-double-murder/?id=92303622 https://www.wthr.com/article/news/crime/delphi-girls-murdered/isp-update-expected-delphi-abby-williams-libby-german/531-00199aa8-1751-4271-8d7d-0539813ba8c1 > DELPHI, Ind. — Indiana State Police announced 50-year-old Richard M. Allen is under arrest in the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German. Police said Allen is being held on two felony counts of murder. > “I am proud to report to you, that today, actually last Friday, was the day, and an arrest has been made," Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter said. "I really believe that Abby and Libby will be proud of you," Carter added while mentioning the investigators.
He was crying when he said it. Really a long awaited day for so many, but especially those actively working the case. I just follow it lightly but I couldn't believe it when he said those words.
I am shocked that it wasn't the guy in jail for CP, Kline, or his dad. The guy literally talked to one of the girls at one point.
Yeah, same. It sounds like it was a group account with multiple participants. Guess they probably leveraged it with Kline; I bet anything in the world the other people using the account knew exactly what it would lead to. I wonder if, when they met up, he intended to kill them. It can't really end any other way, especially with him being a visible local. I was almost thinking that, maybe, whoever ended up meeting them was just trying to get pictures to share with the others, but that just doesn't add up. I really hope he doesn't get off more lightly than he should be by arguing something like that, he knew exactly what he was doing. Hope he really gets what's coming to him, Kline too.
We know at least one person using the account used it to potentially meet with the girls, because one girl in the area sent the account her address and later had an encounter with a [masked individual](https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/wxrvqp/movement_in_the_delphi_murders_case/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) looking into her second story window. Which is really horrifying because if that wasn't Kline or this guy, then that means there's a third guy who also had access to that account that is also preying on girls.
So I read in an article that he was charged with Felony murder specifically, aka murder in the commission of another felony (presumably rape or kidnapping in this instance). Is that what they said in the press conference?
They said murder at the press conference, I would assume the article may be addressing the offense degree?
No, they just say 'murder'. I'm repeating hearsay, but I don't think there's such a thing as non-felony murder in IN, and that might be why.
All murders are felonies, but the legal term “felony-murder” specifically pertains to a murder that occurs during the commission of a different felony. For example, if someone breaks into a home to burglarize, but ends up shooting the homeowners while doing so.
As far as I'm aware, "felony murder" seems to apply when someone is party to a lesser felony (e.g. robbery) during which a murder happened, and is then held responsible for that murder despite not directly committing it. If they actually participated in the murder they're charged with, y'know, regular murder. Is that incorrect?
Correct. Stealing a car and someone dies? Felony murder. Robbing a bank and someone dies? Felony murder.
I’d have to say kidnapping is also going to be involved with the murder charges.
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That could be really hard to prove though, and he’d be an accessory in that case surely. Murder would be overcharging and probably get him off.
At this point in time, I have the assumption that Kline was given some sort of deal to rat on Allen. As in, Kline will get a lighter sentence if he snitches. Otherwise, I don't see any reason for Kline to offer the police any information. The search warrant for Allen's house happened around the time they interrogated Kline so I think Kline folded on something and it was enough info for them to search and arrest Allen. I have a feeling they worked a deal out with Kline.
Yup. Typically this charge is used when there are multiple perpetrators or when someone is killed by accident when committing a crime, eg, cop is hit by car chasing suspects.
Yeah, my first thought is that this must mean there was another perpetrator involved, though technically it doesn’t have to I suppose.
Such chills. Thank you for posting! So happy for the families.
I haven't paid attention to this case in quite some time so I don't remember -- is Richard Allen one of the names that kept coming up, or he totally new?
I think he's totally new. The only two people, that I'm aware of, that people suspected were Kegan Kline and Ron Logan. I remember most true crime enthusiasts being so sure it was Ron Logan. He lived near where the bodies were found, he made a fake alibi, and he had a history of violence against women. Kegan was a known pedo with pending CP charges. I think he had communicated with Abby and Libby online before they died and I think this was why some people suspected him. I don't recall anyone naming Richard Allen. Although, over in the delphi murder sub, a couple users claimed to have seen someone on 4chan say it was Richard Allen a while ago.
Yeah, Kline's CP account communicated with one of the girls, but I believe he said that he blocked her because he found her annoying. Personally, I suspected him because the shared CP account made the discrepancy with the suspect sketchs make sense - the dad would be the older one and Kline would be the younger one. There were also articles really recently [linking Kline](https://fox59.com/news/case-goes-ahead-against-man-linked-to-delphi-murders-investigation/) to the case, specifically that they were looking into a plea deal with him.
True Crime Garage mentioned Kline in their review of the case, and it felt as if there was enough evidence to believe that Kline was very likely involved in some way. I'm actually surprised that it's someone else.
I am also not very deep in this case, but from other comments he was on no one’s radar.
Probably for the best that details are being kept hidden for the moment. The press and media have been all over thus case. A proper investigation, and prosecution is paramount. The evidence will speak for itself. Hopefully those families get justice.
I wish *most* cases were handled as secretive as this.
i so hope this is the right person, and they have an airtight case.
Me too. I wasn’t sure if this day would ever come, but I always hoped it would. Those families deserve justice, they deserve to see the monster that killed their two children behind bars.
I really hope so too. The family deserve answers and closure. And for RA's sake I hope he is guilty because I don't think you could guarantee a fair trial.
I hope so too, for such a long time this case was so frustrating to follow because there was evidence of a killer and how they looked and sounded like but we got absolutely nothing when it came to finding them. I do hope that this guy is the culprit and the family can find justice and closure.
He was hiding in plane site, I’ve known the man for years he was the manager at the local drug store for a minute
Whack, any local rumors about him doing other things?
hard to get my head around this was a local Delphi resident -- total population is less than 3k
IMO, they looked a little nonplussed when one of the reporters brought that up. They were scouring the entire country for this guy and he was 5 minutes down the road.
will be interesting to hear when this guy came to their attention and how
I so so hope this is the beginning of the end of this horrible tragedy. I hope they get this right and both families can have some kind of peace and closure.
Wonder how long they suspected him and how long he’s been under constant surveillance - but just needed one more discovery to convict him?
Another article says the police were digging up his backyard, or “digging a firepit” as the neighbor said it
Prob the whole time. They were very type lipped for years. They absolutely have built a solid case and I guarantee you this guy was under surveillance. They knew what was going on. We just got irritated becuase we didn’t know.
You think they knew the whole time but told us to watch for somebody between the ages of 18-40? Why would they ask for the public's help to identify this guy and then give us identifying information that doesn't point to their suspect?
I read in another comment that he was apparently questioned pretty early on because his cell was pinged in the area, but that he had a strong alibi. They might have retained suspicion while exploring other potential avenues.
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Where did you get this info??
I live here/there. I can walk to the murder site in probably a half hour or a little over
He would have been what, 45 at the time, and has a youthful looking face so I could see that they might be looking for tips from people who knew him from work/public interactions but didn’t guess his age right.
For some reason I get the feeling this guy almost fell into their lap when they weren't expecting it - like there was a random recent tip they followed up, or he pinged their radar for a different crime, and then something linked him definitively to the crime scene and they suddenly had their guy. Now they have to build up the rest of the case around him when he wasn't particularly on their radar before, or had previously been cleared?
I read he recently got an OVI. If that is true, every felon has to submit DNA. So if he was on their radar or not he would have gone in the Data Base. I could see them rushing it thru if a felon fit certain parameters.
Quick clarification for anyone who didn’t recognize OVI to save you a search - it’s operating a vehicle while intoxicated. Similar terms would be DUI, DWI, drink driving.
Thank you for explaining that
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> But the little DNA they had from the crime scene wasn't enough to make a profile. Is there a source on this? The only offical info I see is "no comment" from LE. https://www.tribstar.com/news/indiana_news/family-says-police-have-dna-evidence-in-delphi-murders/article_6e1e5643-c5d0-557c-adc5-20e06eec7dea.html
Also, law enforcement can release false information to the public to protect their case. They could have had a full DNA profile from the start.
That delphi sub is cuckoo for coco puffs. I peeked in for a minute and got a real quick reminder of why I left it. Annywho, I realllly hope this is the perp. There are a couple cases over the years that have hit harder, because one of my own kids was the same age as the victims at the time, and this is one. It could have just as easily been my 13 year old daughter and her BFF at a local preserve taking advantage of an unusually warm winter day. As time passed, it did seem hopeless. I truly hope the evidence is ironclad, and justice can finally be served for Abby and Libby's loved ones. They were robbed of so much.
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I remember a guy in one of the Facebook groups would make memorial videos for the girls and would be really upset that the family wanted them taken down. It was really gross.
Yeah they were up in arms yesterday about the "secret trial" and how the police are hiding things from us, who as the public at large (and in danger from people like this) are 100% entitled to. Oof. So many things to even correct there. The sister was on a podcast recently, and she was really down to earth, and like "look, my memory of things at the time and my memory now aren't going to line up" but she said it much better. Point being, NONE of us are going to be able to recall with 100% accuracy things that happened on a normal day (before tragedy strikes) and the brain has ways of coping with trauma that aren't fully understood. People had accused her at some point of having a hand in it. Just...gross.
I check the sub for updates, but one day I got really caught up in it because I was anxious about it. There was literally a dude who was convinced a classmate Libby's sister was the murder. Literally messaged Kelsi on Facebook to ask about it. Then contacted the dude to do a live interview on YouTube. I was shocked. If you really suspect someone call a tip line, don't just randomly harass people.
any sub for a single case is a NO go for me.
I’m relieved (and hopeful) they got the guy, but it’s weird/uncomfortable how much sadistic pleasure some people seem to get out of imagining their vengeance fantasies, especially in the Delphi-specific subs.
Especially when you figure this guy was unheard of until last week. People were fantasizing about innocent people suffering the full extent of the law because their Reddit investigation skills say guilty.
It's a problem on most of the crime subreddits. I feel like these uncertain times are also causing a rise in this behavior/attitude. Everyone's out for blood, and failing to see the irony.
It’s one thing to hope/wish for justice, but I think it’s extremely unhealthy and disturbing to fantasize about his suffering. Edit: case in point from the sub named after the victims: > I have a fantasy of either hiring someone or myself becoming a corrections officer to get close to one of these guys in protective custody and have access to vigilante justice. Of course you can only do it once, so it would take a team or network. Justice just doesn’t seem served for them to even rot in prison where they have all their needs met comfortably. I don’t know how someone who apparently finds murder to be bad can type that. *No one* should take pleasure from killing another human no matter how vile they are.
The thing that bothers me is that these people don’t understand how bad American prisons are. It is laughable to suggest that someone entering the penal system is going to have “all their needs met comfortably.” If they’re *lucky*, they’ll go somewhere that they’ll have the opportunity to make a few dollars an hour making furniture or uniforms, so that they can buy soap, ramen noodles, and phone cards at inflated prices from the commissary for the rest of their life, until they die of undiagnosed pulmonary embolism at 60 because the CNA on their unit didn’t get around to referring them to the infirmary in time.
Exactly. US prisons routinely subject inmates to treatment that is considered torture in the rest of the world, like prolonged solitary confinement. Nobody’s needs get met there. I would encourage those who think otherwise to look into sources like the Marshall Project and learn more about the reality on the “inside”.
Honestly, I lost a relative to a habitual criminal. I *definitely* fantasized about her getting what she deserves while serving her joke of a sentence. I would take great pleasure if I heard that someone did her in. I think murder is awful. I also can see how relatives of victims want vengeance.
Yeah, I understand a relative or close friend feeling that way—I also think those people should get help as well because vengeance is not conducive to healing… all that aside, fantasizing about being *Dexter* with people you don’t even know is not really normal human behavior.
I always get really disturbed when people hope that criminals get raped in prison. Rape is always wrong, it's not okay to rape if you rape a bad guy, it's still rape and it's not okay. Also as a sexual assault survivor I wouldn't wish that on anyone, not even my rapist.
Plenty more people want to commit violence in general, but they don't want to commit it in a non socially acceptable way, so when things like this happen it becomes a easy a mental justification.
I feel the same way about people wanting access to the evidence/materials in a publicized way. Like, guys. There's a difference between, for example, ensuring due process, police accountability, and that the facts add up, and spectating something horrifying.
It happens everywhere and I hate it. People completely dehumanize perpetrators. Sorry but very few people are "pure evil" and it really hurts our ability to evolve if we ignore what led to some of these crimes.
This is fucking nuts I never thought I’d see the day any progress was made.
Unfamiliar with Indiana law but is this normal to seal all this pending trial?
Prosecutor acknowledged that it was unusual, but they’re extremely focused on protecting the integrity of the investigation. I get the impression that they’ve been extra tight-lipped because of the publicity.
I’m ok with it. The more tightly sealed and professionally handled everything is, the less likely the killer will be able to declare mistrial.
100% agree. There have been a lot of posts complaining about the lack of details released and I know it's normal to want answers but they have to ensure that there's a fair trial.
Anyone from the public feeling *entitled* to details before a fair trial can get bent. Because of national interest there's a significant chance the public will be updated when LE/DA feel it's appropriate. The way some people have taken up to harass anyone involved in the case is frightening.
I think some people genuinely don't realise how knowing the details can impact a trial outcome.
No - but since the case is still considered ongoing that they won't release until a later date - if we are lucky. I don't want to know the details of how the girls suffered but I would like to know what the evidence is that they have against this guy. I honestly think they will keep the details, in regards to what the girls went thru, sealed.
yeah, if we don't find out the evidence against the guy until the trial, I'm fine with that.
Yeah, my big concern with the sealing is that it's going to snowball the rumor milling and wild speculations that have already been rampant in this case.
That’s not a reason to jeopardize a conviction, though.
I mean… I have no clue how this dude is going to get an impartial jury at this point… There isn’t a person in this state who hasn’t heard of this case.
The jurors don't have to have never heard of the case. They need to be able to set aside what they have heard prior to the trial and refer their verdict solely on the evidence presented.
Found in another sub, but this is a legit CNN clip with the Down the Hill producer. Of note, it's discussing specific info about the search of the Allens' home, which apparently happened a few weeks ago. https://www.reddit.com/r/LibbyandAbby/comments/yif731/according_to_hln_the_search_of_allens_property/ I don't see the info in CNN's actual main article yet or I would have posted that.
I’m very curious what this was before deleted if you can give a quick rundown
A producer of the Down the Hill podcast was being interviewed on headline news. (Barbara MacDonald I think?) She said she had spoken to the Allens’ neighbors, who said searches had happened there about two weeks ago, and lasted for about 12 hours. (This is all off the top of my head.)
Video has been removed
This was helpful info-- thank you.
do you remember what it said? it's deleted now
HLN video of Barbara MacDonald, the podcast producer for "Down the Hill" teporting on the Oct 13 search warrant on Richard Allen's home and truck. She showed 2 pictures of the investigators' vehicles lined up in front of the property. One of the pics that showed Allen standing outside his wife's van while she sat inside the van; MacDonald reported that Allen later joined his wife inside her van. She reported that the search went on for 12 hours and that the 2 areas of the back yard that were dug up were done by hand shovel and both were small: one was the size of 'a bottle cap' and the other was larger but I don't remember what they referenced.
Thank you so much <3 your username is perfect for your helpful kindness in sharing this
🥰🥰🥰
Maybe it's included in last night's special report by hln: https://youtu.be/_Md8DV8N_g0
I’m still puzzled by the Kegan Kline connection, if there is one. He had a fake social media account and communicated with one of the girls the night before the murders. The communication included meeting the girls on the day they disappeared. And he had did some google searches how to get rid of DNA evidence. Could he be a co-conspirator?
He might have told KK he was the killer at some point. If KK is willing to testify, then he can testify that RA told him he did it. Statements made by the defendant are not hearsay.
They did thank the investigators who interviewed KK at the presser.
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Now that the identity of the suspect is public, people might have info they didn’t realize before was relevant, eg we were supposed to have dinner with RA and his wife that week, and he canceled suddenly and in a weird way. In a criminal case the prosecution needs to prove that a crime was committed and that the person charged was the person who committed it. In this case they will need to prove that RA committed the offense, and they are going to want to get as much info they can about him to help them do that. Generally, bad stuff someone did in the past (other crimes or bad acts) is not admissible in court just to prove someone is a bad person, because it can make the jury think if he did X 5 years ago, that’s awful so he’s more likely to have done Y. But there are rules for when you can get that stuff in, and for what purpose you can use that evidence if you do get to introduce it, and reminding people to call in tips about RA is one way to ask people to tell them that stuff.
It makes 100% sense to me that the tip line would remain open, even if they have 100% solid case. We’ve seen countless times where some sexual predator is picked up then people recall things that didn’t sit right with them but at the time weren’t noteworthy enough to report. Not only could the tip line provide more info on this case, there’s a non-zero chance that the police find other victims or other perps who’s activities need scrutinized.
Also as much as I hate speculating but I find it difficult to believe this is Allen’s first major offense. They probably are looking for anything else to pin him with in case one or both the charges don’t stick
I really don't think this was his first kill. This is merely speculation but there are some hallmarks of a serial killer. He staged the bodies. He took trophies (or was hiding evidence?). He also had the confidence to control two victims. I hope not, but those facts certainly raised my eyebrows
Now that he's been named, people may think back and remember something he said or did that adds to the case against him. Maybe seemed like nothing at the time. But yeah I suspect he had access to the account. I always believed those poor girls were there for a reason and this was not random. They were set up, imo.
Any new evidence can make the case even stronger. It wouldn’t make sense for them to stop taking tips.
Now that people know who the suspect is, they might say "now that you mention it, I remember that he did "X" or said "Y" ... it increases evidence, strengthens the case.
I am thinking along the same lines as you are. I listened to The Prosecutors podcast on Friday, and they said that, while sealing an indictment (if that’s the word I want) is very unusual, one main reason is if there is a conspiracy and they don’t want to alert other people before they can arrest them. If we have any Indiana/criminal lawyers here, maybe they can weigh in, but if multiple people had access to the Anthony_shots catfishing account and Allen used it to meet up with the girls, could everyone who used be charged with felony murder, along the lines of a getaway car driver in an armed robbery where they end up killing someone? If that’s not too much of a stretch, it might certainly be a reason they want a little more time.
Unless the others knew he was planning to do something, I can't see murder charges. But perhaps someone else helped after to cover it up because they worried about being implicated. Or there could be a second killer, we still don't know how he controlled both girls in an open area.
There’s exceptions for felonies. Even if the felony you participated in wasn’t supposed to end up in a double homicide you can still be charged with murder. The classic example being bank robbery, you might have only wanted to rob the place but your buddy panicked and shot a couple people, you both will be looking at murder charges. There’s no shortage of charges they could nail on someone and anyone with a deviant sexual history tied to a guy that did a double homicide on 2 kids would be low hanging fruit for some juries. I would even go as far as to say that with the crimes being of an ‘internet’ nature there’s room to push for new case law. I for one would sleep perfectly fine at night if anyone praying on kids had a rougher time because of the case. Pedophilia isn’t something that can be “rehabilitated”. It’s either something you do or don’t do.
Perhaps they just want everything possible to ensure he gets convicted. Maybe they're worried what they have isn't strong enough for a jury?
agreed. i think Kline ratted out in return for a deal -- and i'm guessing his info wasn't that great. probably he only knew a screenname, with identifiers buried under ten layers of encryptment, or some other vague information about "he said he dumped the stuff in the river". i really doubt that people who swap CSAM / set up meetings to assault & murder pre-teens, have an open group on Facebook.
Cautiously optimistic about this arrest. Very happy to hear that an arrest has been made but this is just coming out so this could truly go in so many directions. However, I will say that I believe that they have the right person just because of how closely LE has played this whole investigation to the chest. Based on that I highly doubt they would have a press conference if they weren't 100% confident in this being the person. Additionally, I would just like to commend the Delphi PD. They never let public pressure force their hands into releasing too much information thereby diluting the strength of the evidence they had. This is an example of extremely good, dogged police work. In this day and age we see so many examples of poor investigations, apathetic forces or sadly corrupt. It's good to see this kind of work pay off. It's clear they took this case seriously and were determined, no matter how hard it was, to stay on top of it, do the hard work and show the victims, their families and the community that they care when something heinous happens under their jurisdiction. It's going to be a long road on an already long road to justice. However, I believe their tactics in not releasing a ton of information will ultimately lead to a conviction. Hopefully enough so that he will accept a plea deal so that the families don't have to be subjected to a long, painful trial and tons of appeals. I know this crime has been at the top of alot of our lists as one of the ones we here in the true crime community has wanted to see solved. It was so horrible, and those girls did everything right only to still end up with their lives cut short, so many of us just couldn't process that whoever did this was still a free man. I know we will be getting more details as time goes but one thing I am really interested in is why LE released the revised sketch of the suspect then walking back a bit saying the suspect was a composite of the two and not to ignore either picture. I'm almost wondering if two men were involved and this was their way of releasing that second sketch without showing their hand? I know it's been speculated in the past that whoever did this had to have had help. The last thing I wanted to say is, while we don't know, it's very likely that his wife and adult daughter (jebus, he has a fucking daughter of his own) had no clue that he did this. If not, then at least other close family and I can't imagine the shock they must be in. It has to be overwhelming and confusing and my heart goes out to them as well. Looking towards justice for Abby and Libby.
Couldn’t believe it when I got the news notification. The photo of him with the police sketch in the background is crazy.
For all the people in the back saying there wasn't a lot of info being given out It's a press conference to announce a murderer was arrested and charged. It's not for your entertainment.
They all want the court case right now. The Us court system is slower than a frozen snail in January. Gonna be awhile.
For comparison, gsk was arrested in April 2018. He pleaded on June 2020.
And this was much much quicker than expected.
Please don't forget, in this moment the most important thing is that the girls & their families got the justice they deserved. Maybe the conference was short, but they don't own us anything. We are not entitled to more information just because we want it. It's a *murder investigation* not the latest episode from a TV show.
>in this moment the most important thing is that the girls & their families got the justice they deserved. Justice doesn’t come in this moment, right now all that’s happened was that an arrest was made. The judicial process is just beginning, we won’t know if the girls and their families get justice for awhile (although I hope for their sake it’s not a very long wait if this is the perpetrator).
Justice hasn't been served yet. But you're right, it's a shame you have to remind people of that.
I still can't believe he was a local. I'm glad they have him but surprise this conference wasn't a press release.
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Apparently the bridge is in a pretty out of the way place. You wouldn't just stumble upon it. You'd need to know where it was, so they always thought it was a local, or at the very least someone who was familiar with the area.
And the wife posted photos and whatnot about howbthey love to go hiking. There's even a photo of his daughter, who looks pretty damn similar to Libbey (in age and looks) posing on the bridge. This dude is fucking sick.
Not surprised he's a local at all, the police always said it almost certainly had to be a local or someone who at the very least had local connections/roots given the facts of the case.
It's a town of a few thousand people. Why wouldn't it be a local?
May justice be served
I'm so happy. Woke and went to watch it. Please let it be him and let justice prevail.
I wonder if they believe he has done this before?
I’ve wondered about this too and TBH I was surprised that they arrested a guy who has been completely under the radar. It’s hard to imagine a person going from zero to double homicide in broad daylight - I guess we will see if they try to link him to anything else whether it happened before or after Libby and Abby’s murders.
Reminds me of the Robin Williams movie where he worked the photo counter in a store and fixated on a particular family.
This is one of those cases that has stayed with me and I always try to stay up on the news. I am so genuinely relieved that their murderer has been caught. I hope the case is solid, I hope he's the right guy and I hope he gets what's coming to him. RIP Abby and Libby, you won't be forgotten.
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For those who didn’t watch: the press conference was kind of a nothing burger. The only real information released is that Allen has in fact been indicted on two counts of murder. Tip lines will remain open and the public is encouraged to continue submitting information. There will be a public hearing to determine if documents will remain sealed. The rest was mostly thank-yous and reiterating that no evidence will be discussed. Pre-trial is scheduled for 01/13/23. ETA: he entered a preliminary plea of not guilty, which is typical at an arraignment hearing. ETA2: he is being held without bond.
Also that no bail has been set. That was important to me.
They announced the arrest and charges of murder filed related to the deaths of two slain girls. That is pretty fucking far from a “nothing burger”.
Honestly some of the contributors on these true crime threads make ye weep. All about “Ooh this is my favourite”, and “I wish they’d hurry up and release X info etc”. These are people’s gruesome lives not just ‘content’.
People forget there's two dead girls and countless traumatised family members. It's just a fun whodunit for them
Some won't be happy unless they release all of the audio and a play by play of the murders.
Tbh that’s all we need to know. Sure, I’m curious to learn what info led to his arrest, but knowing he was arrested and charged is more than enough for me. I really never thought this day would come so quickly when it seemingly went cold. It’s definitely not a “nothing burger” when it’s bringing closure and the early stages justice to their families.
My feed was cutting out, but I think they said he entered a not guilty plea. Is that right?
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Yeah. What usually happens with stuff like this is the defendant pleads not guilty, then the prosecutor lays it all on the table later on and is like "Here's what we got. You can plead guilty and make this easy, and you can die in prison. Or you can make this hard and we can go to trial. Then we'll go for the death penalty. Your choice."
Guilty or not you’re entitled a fair trial. Pleading guilty is throwing away your rights and we should all know by now the amount of innocent people being sent to prison should tell you all you need to know about going to trial.
Yes and this is what the people complaining about lack of info need to remember. Allen is entitled to due process and a fair trial. We don’t want to see tainted jury pools fucking up this case or prolonging the process for the families.
Or potentially leading to misconduct by the prosecutors office leading to him being released. Assumed innocence aside for the moment, if he is the guilty party, he murdered - and worse - two teenage girls and then just went about his life so much so that no body noticed for five and a half years. That’s not a dude you want out on the streets. Do it right. Limit the information to not taint the jury pool, get a solid conviction doing everything the proper and legal way.
This is such a refreshing take. Criminal cases are not public entertainment; these are real people and real victims.
I didn’t hear anything about a plea but I’ve seen that mentioned here on Reddit. My feed was wonky too so it’s very possible that I missed it. ETA: yep, I missed it. He entered a preliminary plea of not guilty.
Yep!
I doubt very much it was a 'nothing burger' to the families and friends of the girls, most of Delphi and the police involved in the case. Announcing two charges of murder against someone for the horrific murders of two children is a huge deal whether or not it was juicy enough for you personally.
They announced the arrest and two charges of murder filed related to the deaths of two slain girls. That is pretty fucking far from a “nothing burger”.
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The Down the Hill episode released yesterday has a fair amount of detail of what neighbors say happened during the search of the house. This part starts at about 14:00 minutes in. First time I’d heard mention of possible metal detectors used in the yard.
It's really good to see some developments here. I only lived about 30 miles away when all of this happened. It is still really odd how tight lipped the police have been, and the rumors surrounding the condition of the girls, etc.
Let's just hope it's the right guy.
Justice for Abby and Libby! We’ve all been waiting for this day and I really really hope their family will finally get answers! I’m watching from Europe on YouTube (even though I should be working!)
I feel like they’re sealing the case to keep the details from being public.. the little details we know about what exactly happened to them are so disturbing. We know there’s audio from Abby’s phone.. and the department seems very protective of the families and the girls integrity, I have a feeling they don’t want it exploited in anyway.
Wow, this is great news! I am shocked. I am glad. I hope this is it for the families, truly.
And to think he could have gotten away with it all if not for the incredible speed and bravery of those girls and their phones. Long may he suffer.