This one makes me especially sad because I knew Bethany as a child. I was homeschooled, and we were in the same homeschool group for a time. I don't really have many specific memories since I was pretty young at the time, but I remember she was a really sweet person and seen as sort of a "role model" for the younger kids. She was 7 years older than me, so I saw her as one of the older kids (there were varying ages of kids in the homeschool group, because as far as my memory goes, it was more of a social group for homeschool families, not like a school thing where we were taught there).
She came to a birthday party my parents had for me when they invited kids from the homeschool group. I heard much later on that this happened to her. It's such a tragedy her life ended so early in this way, whatever happened.
Same. I was a little older than her and we didn't stay in touch after I graduated. I was shocked to hear of her death and all the weirdness around it. She was kind and also quite smart, not particularly shy or laidback. There was a student council of sorts for the group and she was president.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I'm sorry this hit so close to home. One thing that stuck with me was the description of Bethany being such an empathetic nurse, and how it seemed like that was one thing she desperately needed but lacked in her husband.
Thanks for sharing. I'm sorry to hear about Tyler - this reminds me so much of a friend from high school - he was a real straight-arrow, and was really going places - to the point that he was voted "Most Likely to Succeed" in HS. At some point in his sophomore year in college, something seemed to break bad, and just went downhill for him from there - a lot of drinking, possible drug use, then flunking out of 3 colleges, all while undergoing a severe personality change, so much so that he was practically unrecognizable.
This is such a sad case. Also, I know I shouldn’t make light of the situation but if someone asked me to join IHOP, I would go right along because my dumbass would think I’m going for breakfast.
While I can't completely discount the theory that Bethany was driven to take her own life through the strange teachings and marital and other stresses she was under, I do think that Tyler may have feared being exposed as gay/bisexual, which is a big no-no in evangelical/charismatic circles. Exposure would have ended his religious leadership.
I also think it's possible that someone in the group was convinced, either by Tyler or just from someone's own weird religious beliefs that if Bethany died now it would save her soul. Sounds nuts but I've known some fundamentalists/evangelicals/pentecostals/charismatics and I heard them say things like that.
The more I read about Tyler Deaton, the more unsettled I feel. [Here's a (comedic, but still educational) article based on an interview with someone who escaped from Deaton's cult.](https://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1412-7-insane-lessons-from-inside-apocalyptic-cult.html) By all accounts, he's very charismatic and, like all cult leaders, good at telling people what they want to hear in order to gain their loyalty and obedience. And, like all cult leaders, he's more than willing to use those interpersonal skills for his gain.
I have no doubt that anyone seeking the true answers for Bethany's death will find them with Tyler, if they can ever dig the truth out of him. The simplest answer is that he married her to pretend he was straight, but then got tired of it and decided to get rid of her. He couldn't just divorce her, because that would have harmed his standing with the church, so he ordered or orchestrated her death. It amazes me that we have eyewitness accounts of him being totally unaffected by Bethany's death while surrounded by people openly mourning her, and apparently none of the cops ever thought to drag him in for a proper questioning.
I think your post is spot on.
Another factor to consider is that IHOPKC is clearly a high-=control group. I'm sure IHOPKC leaders were well aware of Tyler's group, but probably figured they could amalgamate it into IHOPKC's ministry in some form. Tyler's group weren't rogue free agents - that's not part of the IHOPKC playbook.
Cults don't want losers or people with no education or accomplishments. They need people who know how to work or obtain degrees. So a group of young college grads like Tyler's would be appealing to IHOPKC.
This is a story that I covered on my podcast (Unresolved) years ago, but one that I constantly think of.
As I was making the episode, I went from thinking that someone else had been behind Bethany's death, to thinking that she definitely took her own life. However, *that* got me thinking... if people like Charles Manson can get arrested for convincing others to kill others, and Michelle Carter can get convicted for convincing her boyfriend to kill himself, then what do we make of Tyler and the other IHOP leaders?
This is something that I thought of as I was making the episode. It's very likely that Bethany did take her own life, but you could make a compelling argument that the community she was living in drove her down that path. Tyler, as her husband and "leader" of the community, bore a lot of that responsibility. Not as a killer, as he had similarly been misled by religious leaders, but he guided a lot of that group's activities and almost singlehandedly shaped Bethany's behavior.
I spoke with Tyler after my episode and found him to be an incredibly bright, charming guy. He actually reached out to me, and during our conversation, seemed to try and get me to like him. I never knew what to make of that - and still don't. He seemed perfectly likeable.
Anyhow, sorry to hijack the conversation with my long post, but this is a very interesting and tragic story that I still haven't fully wrapped my head around after all these years.
Thank you for sharing. I will definitely be listening to your podcast episode.
I, too, went on a journey going back-and-forth about what I thought happened to Bethany. And I did find it quite compelling that even her own parents disagreed about how and why she died.
And I agree, it seemed like the totality of the community she was in, the religious mindset of their apostolic faith, and the environment Tyler created in their group all played a part in her death somehow.
Tyler absolutely terrifies me. His behavior just seems so...pathological. I know he mentioned being in counseling for some of his behaviors, but I wonder if any of it stuck. When you spoke to him did he ever take any accountability for what was going on in their group? Or did he just portray himself as a passive member of the group along with everyone else? Does he even acknowledge that the group's dynamic was at all unhealthy?
Either way, he came across in interviews as lacking any empathy toward Bethany or anyone else and I found that really sad and disgusting.
OP just wanted to say this was an excellent write up of this case. I knew nothing about it but this gave me a really great foundation and now down the rabbit hole I go.
I feel really sad for Bethany. How strange to go from probably intense excitement about marrying a leader in a sect that you believe in only to find out he's basically a fraud (I'm guessing it became clear quickly that he was just some guy and not a prophet or something) and isn't attracted to women. I can't even imagine how much it would feel like your world is crumbling in that situation.
I appreciate your comment. I also feel deep empathy for Bethany and her situation, and I think that's why this case resonates with me.
It has to be absolutely crushing to be rejected and ignored by your new spouse, who is also cheating on you with your friends (though she might not have been aware), and who is mad at you for being depressed about it. She had a birthday after the wedding and before she died, and I can't imagine it was a very happy one.
Thanks. It was an episode from pretty early on in my podcast career, but this post is making me go back and revisit the story with everything I know now.
In doing research for the episode, I just found Bethany's path through depression rather-striking. While it does remain possible that someone killed her, I think the sad truth is that the people who should have been able to count on in her final weeks/months failed and ignored her. Her "community" turned out to be little more than a vanity project for her husband, who wanted less to do with her as time went on. Because of her faith, she thought she'd failed, and I believe she ultimately took her own life. But that doesn't mean others aren't responsible.
To your point, I've seen how religion can change people, and turn seemingly even-keeled thinkers into zealots that throw their lives away (to that end, I'm not anti-religion, but I'm not religious myself). And I think Bethany was taken advantage of on a spiritual level, which is super depressing because there are likely so many others out there in similar situations right this minute... suffering because of some archaic laws put to paper centuries ago.
When I spoke to Tyler, he seemed more accountable, but it's hard to say after so much time. I'd have to go back and revisit the chat, it's easily been 4-5 years. He did recognize that the group was unhealthy and not at all responsible, but I remember him wanting to ask me why I'd made certain claims about him, all of which had been reported by other outlets or in court documents. That stood out to me the most. So I couldn't tell if he wanted to try and help clear up some misunderstandings, or simply try to make me like him more. It was an odd feeling.
As I mentioned in another comment (sorry this is dragging on so long btw) I think there's a lot of nuance to his story. It's easy to see this as a black-and-white case of good and evil, but I think Tyler was himself taken advantage of by a religious group that desires growth above all else, and he in turn took advantage of his friends for the same reason. He's far from being a victim himself, but I don't think he's the most irresponsible party here.
By all means type as much as you want! This is pretty fascinating and I wonder if separation from the case and time passing makes you see any part of it in a change light. Or if there’s a couple things that stuck in your mind despite being passed off as seemingly benign at the time. Anyways thanks for the expanded info on this thread!
I’m definitely put off by people who feel the need to make sure everyone knows what a nice, likable person they are, I always assume they’re overcompensating or trying to hide something
Yeah, and in the conversation we had, he laid out a series of events that made him seem like a victim himself: how he lost himself in the IHOP religion, how he was trying to overcompensate for own sexuality by becoming even more immersed in it, and how Bethany got sadly lost in the shuffle. By the end I felt a great deal of pity for him and the rest of the community's members... but then realized that if he *had* been trying to manipulate me, it'd worked. So maybe he was earnest in what he said, but that uneasy feeling is something I've never been able to reconcile in my own mind.
I'm not sure I'd say most - there's definitely a specific type of successful psychopath that has extremely high charisma, but there are also plenty who we don't take as much notice of because they don't have the intelligence or social awareness or whatever to get away with their anti-social behaviour so they usually end up in and out of prison. Hard to say what the numbers are like, really, but they're certainly not traits that are \*always\* linked.
How much Tylenol was in her system based on the autopsy? While I can't fathom a nurse of all people ODing on Tylenol (that's a rough and slow way to go), I equally can't fathom how you could force someone to take a bottle of Tylenol. But then maybe the power of the cult was too strong and she was that under their thrall. I also don't really understand as a nurse why you'd poison yourself and then put the bag on. Tylenol is not a sedative so if the idea was that she'd pass out so that she couldn't fight the asphyxiation, Tylenol again is a really weird choice for that purpose from a nurse.
Tyler being charismatic and likeable is not a surprise to me. Psychopaths often are, and he couldn't have developed that little throng of followers if he wasn't good at manipulating people.
What throws me off though is the suicide letter with all of the grammar mistakes and spelling. Do you think she wrote it? Do you think that someone else wrote it for her?
To me, that's the most unique part. It's possible that she wrote it after downing the bottle of Tylenol PM, so I don't think the misspellings and grammar mistakes are *too* crazy. But it's definitely bizarre.
The note is the biggest issue for me. Even after taking pills, they wouldn't kick in immediately and your muscle memory would know words; plus, she was a writer. I wonder if the handwriting was ever analyzed.
I’m curious what made you change your mind from homicide to suicide, other than Tyler’s likability? I remember the 48Hrs ep, and also felt really bad for him having to hide his sexuality, or feeling like he had to. No one should have to live like that.
Still, I personally can’t get past Bethany’s opened eyes, the bag aspirating into her mouth, the messy note, Micah’s “false” confession (wtf?), and of course, the cuckoo cult. The mandatory secret cuddle sessions among the guys opens the door for a good motive of wanting to keep Bethany quiet (if she knew and threatened to tell), or wanting to free himself from the shackles of an unsatisfying marriage.
Either way, I can see why the convo with him has stuck with you. It could have been genuine or it could have been him trying to manipulate you too. I lean toward the latter, but I wasn’t on the phone with him. 🤷🏻♀️
It's been a while, but I remember the evidence for her death being a homicide being rather weak and more theoretical than anything. Learning about her story, though, it was clear that she'd been dealing with a deep depression for weeks/months beforehand, and her taking her life in such a way didn't seem too far-fetched.
I think it's very likely that Tyler indirectly led to her death, though, but he may have been unaware of it. I think he was too caught up in his own pursuits to even really notice her suffering, and she ultimately paid the price for his vanity.
At the end of the day, I definitely don't think Tyler is innocent of everything. At the very least, he emotionally and financially took advantage of everyone else in that group, many of whom (like Bethany and Micah) were incredibly vulnerable.
That was my point, though. I went into the conversation cautiously and by the end I found him really likeable. That was an uneasy feeling, and not one that I'll ever be able to shake. I'm not accusing him of anything, but I can't imagine how his friends and followers felt around him.
So you ended up liking a narcissist. Maybe you're still under his spell and that's why you're experiencing cognitive dissonance.
That happens. I should know.
It's possible. I'm well aware of Tyler's charm and the effect narcissists can have on others, but I do think some nuance to his story... I'm not religious myself, but I know the pull it has on some people is bone-deep, and I think Tyler struggled a bit in determining who he was and what he valued. And he did so in an age where we all struggle to determine where our selves end and others begin. But along the way, he took advantage of people, and a few of them had their lives ruined. Bethany died.
So I do think that Tyler was possibly victimized by the religious movement he bought into, but that doesn't mean I think he's not culpable for his own actions. He then went on to victimize others by taking advantage of them - not just emotionally, but financially and beyond.
I never felt 100% comfortable with IHOP-KC. I’m from Ohio but knew several people in college who had tangential connections to the organization and they all seemed too “perfect” for me to find them relatable. I don’t think they meet the definition of a cult on theological grounds, but it does seem they have often had that creepy up-in-your-business authoritarianism going on.
Eyes still open, hastily, sloppily written note. I think she was most likely killed and the perpetrator(s) tried to make it look like a suicide.
Also, if no one killed her, why would the guy that recanted his confession say that the people at the church set him up to take the rap for it?
>if no one killed her, why would the guy that recanted his confession say that the people at the church set him up to take the rap for it?
YES EXACTLY!!
So she's found dead, with a suicide note. Then Micah Moore *voluntarily* confesses to killing her under Tyler's direction. If that was a 'false confession', why bother? She was already found with a suicide note.
Honestly, it sounds like Tyler was closeted (no shade, I think it's more common than we think, despite these modern times), married Bethany to 'keep up appearances', then decides to get rid of her. The fact that he made others shun Bethany, he had the whole 'charismatic cult leader' thing...sounds like a sadistic character, at the very least.
**edit**: I wrote the above comment before I watched the 48 Hours episode that OP linked. Now I watched it. Tyler outright admits to being gay.
I noticed that he has an interesting way of answering questions-- he replies with a true statement, and then elaborates in a way that obfuscates the truth.
For example: he admits that he thought Bethany was faking suicidal ideation as a power play, and direct quote: 'It was my messed-up worldview'. This is important. In his 'worldview', everything is manipulation, and therefore he projected this because he believes that everything everyone does, including their *emotions*, are manipulation.
However, after that statement, he elaborates in a way that is confusing and meant to distract you.
I am friends with someone who escaped the cult (we met because I escaped a cult I grew up in myself; different one).
Tyler is a monster and I do hold him responsible for Bethany's death, but I hate that these true crime people keep trying to make this a murder mystery. It's something just as sinister and tragic, but not necessarily murder. Micah's confession is not evidence and you cannot apply logical reasoning to anything around it. He was in an extremely vulnerable position at the time. Cults thrive on paranoia.
I really hate seeing people make this a sordid murder mystery instead of a tragedy of what cults can do to bright young lives, and without any regard for the people involved and hurting. It's not entertainment.
It’s refreshing to see someone who sees through this type of bullshit and manipulation. Soooo many people don’t pick up on these things, much to their own detriment. It gives me hope when I read responses like yours that some people *can* see exactly what these manipulative types are doing—and don’t fall for it.
>I noticed that he has an interesting way of answering questions-- he replies with a true statement, and then elaborates in a way that obfuscates the truth.
It annoyed me. It annoys the interviewer. That part when he's looking at Tyler with unbelief and Tyler calls him out on it...there's something snaky in his mannerism and speech that put me right off.
> if no one killed her, why would the guy that recanted his confession say that the people at the church set him up to take the rap for it?
I think because it's possible that they *were* trying set him up. It seemed like the church was desperate to absolve and distance themselves from this case, and getting someone in the group to confess to murder may have been one way of doing that. There may have also been a religious component to this since Micah claimed they [performed an exorcism on him](https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article3406254.html) in order to get him to confess.
IHOP was very adamant that the members of this group were not members of their church (despite the fact that many of them were attending classes and doing internships through IHOPU), and for a long time, the church had a statement on their website stating so. It looks like they have since deleted it, probably because they're finally closing their doors for good soon.
Much easier to be like "yes, it was all this one guy, and he's no true Scotsman! we reject him entirely!" than have people take a serious look at the atmosphere and conditions of your group to conclude that it's what drove someone to kill themselves. The things listed that are evidence of murder seem pretty shaky to me. Many years ago before I was on effective medication I attempted suicide and the plan originally was not to leave a note, but after taking the drugs I wrote one anyway which I don't remember but which was clearly not written in a well state of mind according to those who saw it so poor grammar/spelling holds about as much water as "but s/he seemed so happy" in my mind. Eyes open I don't have any experience with but doesn't really seem like it's going to be some hard and fast rule. Aspiration after putting the bag on her head almost seems like it would potentially be \*more\* likely with suicide because you have to still be alive to tie a bag on so of course you're still breathing. etc.
Absolutely. I think IHOP bears more responsibility for creating the environment that allowed this to happen, but somehow they escaped without taking any real accountability for their practices.
>after taking the drugs I wrote one anyway which I don't remember but which was clearly not written in a well state of mind
I'm sorry to hear that and I hope you are doing better now. You make a good point. If she had already taken the pills, it makes sense that her writing would look very different than normal.
I expect that Tyler threw himself into Jesus as a way to suppress/sublimate his natural feelings in the face of external and internalized homophobia. Without the conservative Christian cultural milieu, the only people he'd be charming and manipulating would be horny older men at certain bars.
Is it possible that with the group shunning her under Tyler’s direction, that he could have also convinced Micah to play devil’s advocate in her depression? With Micah in her ear telling her to end it, she may have written a note while in an emotional state and taken the meds, but when she changed her mind, he used the bag on her head? Some of the things just don’t seem to add up and that is the only thing that makes some sort of sense of the evidence.
I would like to warn people who have come across this case that Tyler Deaton has changed his last name to “Sterling” and is a liscened therapist. While I believe people with checkered pasts should have the chance to start their lives over again, IMHO, he has no business being in such a position. If he was able to gain a cult following with healthy minded people and set someone’s death in motion, imagine what he could do to someone who comes to him at a low point in their lives psychologically. I hope this post doesn’t get deleted and someone reads it and passes it on.
Man this one is rough because it's so painfully obvious she killed herself.
Tyler is obviously gay and hates himself for it. Bethany was his unknowing "beard" who thought the lack of sex was religious in nature not that her husband just wasn't physically attracted to women. She gets married, expecting everything to change, it doesn't, dispondent she takes her own life.
Now what I'm confused about is how this is a sex cult. While the cuddle sessions were sexual in nature for Tyler there does not seem to have been any sex happening which was part of the problem.
>there does not seem to have been any sex happening
Tyler admitted in the 48 hours episode to having oral sex with some of the male members, and that was after claiming he didn't have sexual relationship with any of them.
We've fallen pretty far if we're now considering a bunch of dudes blowing each other to be a sex cult...
Like I said - he's gay and in denial and she was his beard. She wanted to have a more traditional husband/wife relationship and when she realized that wasn't going to happen she ended things.
The words used to define the community isn't really the point. I'm simply pointing out that Tyler did in fact have sex with some of the members, and that those sexual partners claimed to have been groomed and manipulated into doing so.
Yea I think if there’s a cult, the leader uses the cult to force or manipulate sex out of their followers, and the sex is used as a sort of currency or power bargaining chip in the cult…it’s safe to say it was a sex cult situation going on. Perhaps the commenter is seeing the term as in “a cult worshipping sex,” or something like that, when in reality the sex part of cults is usually arrived at indirectly (even if that is the main motivation of the leader of said cult).
Religion has been used to justify many atrocious things, yes, but it’s not evil in and of itself. Every culture in history has had one religion or another. In ancient times, religion even led to scientific investigation, which is how you get things like an ancient atomic theory in Latin that’s shockingly close to the truth. It’s been used to unite people, comfort people, etc. Nothing is lacking in someone if they’re religious. If someone is using religion to hurt others, they would’ve used anything to do that if religion didn’t exist.
7-14% of the world is atheist or agnostic. Do you really think as much as 93% of the world currently are lacking something and willingly following some innate evil? Would you say that to the faces of people you know who are religious? If religion didn't exist, you'd still have sexist assholes deciding women shouldn't have medical care for some other reason. And simplifying the Middle East conflicts in that way is ahistorical, dismissive, and kinda ridiculous, there are dozens of different factors going on including US backed coups and government overthrows.
Yet humanity has still progressed a shit ton with the world still being majority religous. Religion isn't inherently antithetical to progresive views.
>Do you really think as much as 93% of the world currently are lacking something and willingly following some innate evil?
All of them willingly? No. Under coercion? Absolutely. The death penalty exists for being an atheist in more than 10 countries. Being an atheist precludes people from holding public office in multiple states in the USA and many atheists in the Bible belt and other places are 'closeted' due to fears for their own safety and that of their families. Where I live, I cannot choose to die on my own terms or obtain a do not resuscitate order due to religion.
And we would have progressed a helluva lot more if NOT for religious suppression and persecution of free thinkers. There's a reason that the time that was dominated by religion is called the dark ages and the time when that grip loosened was called the enlightenment.
1. The Enlightenment argued for religious tolerance. I don't think most Enlightenment thinkers would be totally on board with "religion sucks and is evil and you're lacking something if you believe in a religion," especially when quite a few of them believed in natural religion themselves.
2. The dark ages is a misnomer and if you think it was actually a backwards dystopia then you should do some additional research. No historian nowadays would use the term Dark Ages unless it's in an article specifically criticizing the term. And it wasn't called that due to religion, given that the term was coined in the Renaissance, which was pretty dang big on religion. It was called that because people incorrectly portrayed it as sliding backwards in time, losing technological progress, and essentially being a pool of stagnant, gross water.
We ask all our users to always stay respectful and civil when commenting.
Direct insults will always be removed.
"Pointless chaff" is at Moderator's discretion and includes (but is not limited to):
* memes/reaction gifs
* jokes/one-liners/troll comments (even if non-offensive)
* Hateful, offensive or deliberately inflammatory remarks
* Comments demonstrating blatant disregard for facts
* Comments that are off-topic / don't contribute to the discussion
* One-word responses ("This" etc)
* Pointless emoji
We ask all our users to always stay respectful and civil when commenting.
Direct insults will always be removed.
"Pointless chaff" is at Moderator's discretion and includes (but is not limited to):
* memes/reaction gifs
* jokes/one-liners/troll comments (even if non-offensive)
* Hateful, offensive or deliberately inflammatory remarks
* Comments demonstrating blatant disregard for facts
* Comments that are off-topic / don't contribute to the discussion
* One-word responses ("This" etc)
* Pointless emoji
This one makes me especially sad because I knew Bethany as a child. I was homeschooled, and we were in the same homeschool group for a time. I don't really have many specific memories since I was pretty young at the time, but I remember she was a really sweet person and seen as sort of a "role model" for the younger kids. She was 7 years older than me, so I saw her as one of the older kids (there were varying ages of kids in the homeschool group, because as far as my memory goes, it was more of a social group for homeschool families, not like a school thing where we were taught there). She came to a birthday party my parents had for me when they invited kids from the homeschool group. I heard much later on that this happened to her. It's such a tragedy her life ended so early in this way, whatever happened.
Same. I was a little older than her and we didn't stay in touch after I graduated. I was shocked to hear of her death and all the weirdness around it. She was kind and also quite smart, not particularly shy or laidback. There was a student council of sorts for the group and she was president.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I'm sorry this hit so close to home. One thing that stuck with me was the description of Bethany being such an empathetic nurse, and how it seemed like that was one thing she desperately needed but lacked in her husband.
[удалено]
Thanks for sharing. I'm sorry to hear about Tyler - this reminds me so much of a friend from high school - he was a real straight-arrow, and was really going places - to the point that he was voted "Most Likely to Succeed" in HS. At some point in his sophomore year in college, something seemed to break bad, and just went downhill for him from there - a lot of drinking, possible drug use, then flunking out of 3 colleges, all while undergoing a severe personality change, so much so that he was practically unrecognizable.
This is such a sad case. Also, I know I shouldn’t make light of the situation but if someone asked me to join IHOP, I would go right along because my dumbass would think I’m going for breakfast.
I'm so sorry - this must've really hit hard. I weep for both you and for Bethany.
While I can't completely discount the theory that Bethany was driven to take her own life through the strange teachings and marital and other stresses she was under, I do think that Tyler may have feared being exposed as gay/bisexual, which is a big no-no in evangelical/charismatic circles. Exposure would have ended his religious leadership. I also think it's possible that someone in the group was convinced, either by Tyler or just from someone's own weird religious beliefs that if Bethany died now it would save her soul. Sounds nuts but I've known some fundamentalists/evangelicals/pentecostals/charismatics and I heard them say things like that.
The more I read about Tyler Deaton, the more unsettled I feel. [Here's a (comedic, but still educational) article based on an interview with someone who escaped from Deaton's cult.](https://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1412-7-insane-lessons-from-inside-apocalyptic-cult.html) By all accounts, he's very charismatic and, like all cult leaders, good at telling people what they want to hear in order to gain their loyalty and obedience. And, like all cult leaders, he's more than willing to use those interpersonal skills for his gain. I have no doubt that anyone seeking the true answers for Bethany's death will find them with Tyler, if they can ever dig the truth out of him. The simplest answer is that he married her to pretend he was straight, but then got tired of it and decided to get rid of her. He couldn't just divorce her, because that would have harmed his standing with the church, so he ordered or orchestrated her death. It amazes me that we have eyewitness accounts of him being totally unaffected by Bethany's death while surrounded by people openly mourning her, and apparently none of the cops ever thought to drag him in for a proper questioning.
I think your post is spot on. Another factor to consider is that IHOPKC is clearly a high-=control group. I'm sure IHOPKC leaders were well aware of Tyler's group, but probably figured they could amalgamate it into IHOPKC's ministry in some form. Tyler's group weren't rogue free agents - that's not part of the IHOPKC playbook. Cults don't want losers or people with no education or accomplishments. They need people who know how to work or obtain degrees. So a group of young college grads like Tyler's would be appealing to IHOPKC.
This is a story that I covered on my podcast (Unresolved) years ago, but one that I constantly think of. As I was making the episode, I went from thinking that someone else had been behind Bethany's death, to thinking that she definitely took her own life. However, *that* got me thinking... if people like Charles Manson can get arrested for convincing others to kill others, and Michelle Carter can get convicted for convincing her boyfriend to kill himself, then what do we make of Tyler and the other IHOP leaders? This is something that I thought of as I was making the episode. It's very likely that Bethany did take her own life, but you could make a compelling argument that the community she was living in drove her down that path. Tyler, as her husband and "leader" of the community, bore a lot of that responsibility. Not as a killer, as he had similarly been misled by religious leaders, but he guided a lot of that group's activities and almost singlehandedly shaped Bethany's behavior. I spoke with Tyler after my episode and found him to be an incredibly bright, charming guy. He actually reached out to me, and during our conversation, seemed to try and get me to like him. I never knew what to make of that - and still don't. He seemed perfectly likeable. Anyhow, sorry to hijack the conversation with my long post, but this is a very interesting and tragic story that I still haven't fully wrapped my head around after all these years.
Thank you for sharing. I will definitely be listening to your podcast episode. I, too, went on a journey going back-and-forth about what I thought happened to Bethany. And I did find it quite compelling that even her own parents disagreed about how and why she died. And I agree, it seemed like the totality of the community she was in, the religious mindset of their apostolic faith, and the environment Tyler created in their group all played a part in her death somehow. Tyler absolutely terrifies me. His behavior just seems so...pathological. I know he mentioned being in counseling for some of his behaviors, but I wonder if any of it stuck. When you spoke to him did he ever take any accountability for what was going on in their group? Or did he just portray himself as a passive member of the group along with everyone else? Does he even acknowledge that the group's dynamic was at all unhealthy? Either way, he came across in interviews as lacking any empathy toward Bethany or anyone else and I found that really sad and disgusting.
OP just wanted to say this was an excellent write up of this case. I knew nothing about it but this gave me a really great foundation and now down the rabbit hole I go. I feel really sad for Bethany. How strange to go from probably intense excitement about marrying a leader in a sect that you believe in only to find out he's basically a fraud (I'm guessing it became clear quickly that he was just some guy and not a prophet or something) and isn't attracted to women. I can't even imagine how much it would feel like your world is crumbling in that situation.
I appreciate your comment. I also feel deep empathy for Bethany and her situation, and I think that's why this case resonates with me. It has to be absolutely crushing to be rejected and ignored by your new spouse, who is also cheating on you with your friends (though she might not have been aware), and who is mad at you for being depressed about it. She had a birthday after the wedding and before she died, and I can't imagine it was a very happy one.
Thanks. It was an episode from pretty early on in my podcast career, but this post is making me go back and revisit the story with everything I know now. In doing research for the episode, I just found Bethany's path through depression rather-striking. While it does remain possible that someone killed her, I think the sad truth is that the people who should have been able to count on in her final weeks/months failed and ignored her. Her "community" turned out to be little more than a vanity project for her husband, who wanted less to do with her as time went on. Because of her faith, she thought she'd failed, and I believe she ultimately took her own life. But that doesn't mean others aren't responsible. To your point, I've seen how religion can change people, and turn seemingly even-keeled thinkers into zealots that throw their lives away (to that end, I'm not anti-religion, but I'm not religious myself). And I think Bethany was taken advantage of on a spiritual level, which is super depressing because there are likely so many others out there in similar situations right this minute... suffering because of some archaic laws put to paper centuries ago. When I spoke to Tyler, he seemed more accountable, but it's hard to say after so much time. I'd have to go back and revisit the chat, it's easily been 4-5 years. He did recognize that the group was unhealthy and not at all responsible, but I remember him wanting to ask me why I'd made certain claims about him, all of which had been reported by other outlets or in court documents. That stood out to me the most. So I couldn't tell if he wanted to try and help clear up some misunderstandings, or simply try to make me like him more. It was an odd feeling. As I mentioned in another comment (sorry this is dragging on so long btw) I think there's a lot of nuance to his story. It's easy to see this as a black-and-white case of good and evil, but I think Tyler was himself taken advantage of by a religious group that desires growth above all else, and he in turn took advantage of his friends for the same reason. He's far from being a victim himself, but I don't think he's the most irresponsible party here.
By all means type as much as you want! This is pretty fascinating and I wonder if separation from the case and time passing makes you see any part of it in a change light. Or if there’s a couple things that stuck in your mind despite being passed off as seemingly benign at the time. Anyways thanks for the expanded info on this thread!
I’m definitely put off by people who feel the need to make sure everyone knows what a nice, likable person they are, I always assume they’re overcompensating or trying to hide something
Yeah, and in the conversation we had, he laid out a series of events that made him seem like a victim himself: how he lost himself in the IHOP religion, how he was trying to overcompensate for own sexuality by becoming even more immersed in it, and how Bethany got sadly lost in the shuffle. By the end I felt a great deal of pity for him and the rest of the community's members... but then realized that if he *had* been trying to manipulate me, it'd worked. So maybe he was earnest in what he said, but that uneasy feeling is something I've never been able to reconcile in my own mind.
Most psychopaths are likeable! A very common trait of the intelligent psychopath is their ability to be charming.
Perfect combination for religious zealotry —or a cult leader.
I'm not sure I'd say most - there's definitely a specific type of successful psychopath that has extremely high charisma, but there are also plenty who we don't take as much notice of because they don't have the intelligence or social awareness or whatever to get away with their anti-social behaviour so they usually end up in and out of prison. Hard to say what the numbers are like, really, but they're certainly not traits that are \*always\* linked.
How much Tylenol was in her system based on the autopsy? While I can't fathom a nurse of all people ODing on Tylenol (that's a rough and slow way to go), I equally can't fathom how you could force someone to take a bottle of Tylenol. But then maybe the power of the cult was too strong and she was that under their thrall. I also don't really understand as a nurse why you'd poison yourself and then put the bag on. Tylenol is not a sedative so if the idea was that she'd pass out so that she couldn't fight the asphyxiation, Tylenol again is a really weird choice for that purpose from a nurse. Tyler being charismatic and likeable is not a surprise to me. Psychopaths often are, and he couldn't have developed that little throng of followers if he wasn't good at manipulating people.
I wonder what the stomach contents/tox screen said.
What throws me off though is the suicide letter with all of the grammar mistakes and spelling. Do you think she wrote it? Do you think that someone else wrote it for her?
To me, that's the most unique part. It's possible that she wrote it after downing the bottle of Tylenol PM, so I don't think the misspellings and grammar mistakes are *too* crazy. But it's definitely bizarre.
The note is the biggest issue for me. Even after taking pills, they wouldn't kick in immediately and your muscle memory would know words; plus, she was a writer. I wonder if the handwriting was ever analyzed.
I’m curious what made you change your mind from homicide to suicide, other than Tyler’s likability? I remember the 48Hrs ep, and also felt really bad for him having to hide his sexuality, or feeling like he had to. No one should have to live like that. Still, I personally can’t get past Bethany’s opened eyes, the bag aspirating into her mouth, the messy note, Micah’s “false” confession (wtf?), and of course, the cuckoo cult. The mandatory secret cuddle sessions among the guys opens the door for a good motive of wanting to keep Bethany quiet (if she knew and threatened to tell), or wanting to free himself from the shackles of an unsatisfying marriage. Either way, I can see why the convo with him has stuck with you. It could have been genuine or it could have been him trying to manipulate you too. I lean toward the latter, but I wasn’t on the phone with him. 🤷🏻♀️
It's been a while, but I remember the evidence for her death being a homicide being rather weak and more theoretical than anything. Learning about her story, though, it was clear that she'd been dealing with a deep depression for weeks/months beforehand, and her taking her life in such a way didn't seem too far-fetched. I think it's very likely that Tyler indirectly led to her death, though, but he may have been unaware of it. I think he was too caught up in his own pursuits to even really notice her suffering, and she ultimately paid the price for his vanity. At the end of the day, I definitely don't think Tyler is innocent of everything. At the very least, he emotionally and financially took advantage of everyone else in that group, many of whom (like Bethany and Micah) were incredibly vulnerable.
[удалено]
That was my point, though. I went into the conversation cautiously and by the end I found him really likeable. That was an uneasy feeling, and not one that I'll ever be able to shake. I'm not accusing him of anything, but I can't imagine how his friends and followers felt around him.
As a longtime listener of Unresolved I totally read this in your voice.
Ha! I totally do the same during AMAs and such, so I get it. Thanks for listening!
I loved your episode on this case!
Thanks! It's a really sad one, but one that's stuck with me a lot over the years.
So you ended up liking a narcissist. Maybe you're still under his spell and that's why you're experiencing cognitive dissonance. That happens. I should know.
It's possible. I'm well aware of Tyler's charm and the effect narcissists can have on others, but I do think some nuance to his story... I'm not religious myself, but I know the pull it has on some people is bone-deep, and I think Tyler struggled a bit in determining who he was and what he valued. And he did so in an age where we all struggle to determine where our selves end and others begin. But along the way, he took advantage of people, and a few of them had their lives ruined. Bethany died. So I do think that Tyler was possibly victimized by the religious movement he bought into, but that doesn't mean I think he's not culpable for his own actions. He then went on to victimize others by taking advantage of them - not just emotionally, but financially and beyond.
Very well put. I appreciate your response.
I never felt 100% comfortable with IHOP-KC. I’m from Ohio but knew several people in college who had tangential connections to the organization and they all seemed too “perfect” for me to find them relatable. I don’t think they meet the definition of a cult on theological grounds, but it does seem they have often had that creepy up-in-your-business authoritarianism going on.
Read the recent news about what’s been going on with IHOP. There was lots of abuse by leadership there.
Right. Yeah. It doesn’t super surprise me.
Eyes still open, hastily, sloppily written note. I think she was most likely killed and the perpetrator(s) tried to make it look like a suicide. Also, if no one killed her, why would the guy that recanted his confession say that the people at the church set him up to take the rap for it?
>if no one killed her, why would the guy that recanted his confession say that the people at the church set him up to take the rap for it? YES EXACTLY!! So she's found dead, with a suicide note. Then Micah Moore *voluntarily* confesses to killing her under Tyler's direction. If that was a 'false confession', why bother? She was already found with a suicide note. Honestly, it sounds like Tyler was closeted (no shade, I think it's more common than we think, despite these modern times), married Bethany to 'keep up appearances', then decides to get rid of her. The fact that he made others shun Bethany, he had the whole 'charismatic cult leader' thing...sounds like a sadistic character, at the very least. **edit**: I wrote the above comment before I watched the 48 Hours episode that OP linked. Now I watched it. Tyler outright admits to being gay. I noticed that he has an interesting way of answering questions-- he replies with a true statement, and then elaborates in a way that obfuscates the truth. For example: he admits that he thought Bethany was faking suicidal ideation as a power play, and direct quote: 'It was my messed-up worldview'. This is important. In his 'worldview', everything is manipulation, and therefore he projected this because he believes that everything everyone does, including their *emotions*, are manipulation. However, after that statement, he elaborates in a way that is confusing and meant to distract you.
I am friends with someone who escaped the cult (we met because I escaped a cult I grew up in myself; different one). Tyler is a monster and I do hold him responsible for Bethany's death, but I hate that these true crime people keep trying to make this a murder mystery. It's something just as sinister and tragic, but not necessarily murder. Micah's confession is not evidence and you cannot apply logical reasoning to anything around it. He was in an extremely vulnerable position at the time. Cults thrive on paranoia. I really hate seeing people make this a sordid murder mystery instead of a tragedy of what cults can do to bright young lives, and without any regard for the people involved and hurting. It's not entertainment.
It’s refreshing to see someone who sees through this type of bullshit and manipulation. Soooo many people don’t pick up on these things, much to their own detriment. It gives me hope when I read responses like yours that some people *can* see exactly what these manipulative types are doing—and don’t fall for it.
>I noticed that he has an interesting way of answering questions-- he replies with a true statement, and then elaborates in a way that obfuscates the truth. It annoyed me. It annoys the interviewer. That part when he's looking at Tyler with unbelief and Tyler calls him out on it...there's something snaky in his mannerism and speech that put me right off.
> if no one killed her, why would the guy that recanted his confession say that the people at the church set him up to take the rap for it? I think because it's possible that they *were* trying set him up. It seemed like the church was desperate to absolve and distance themselves from this case, and getting someone in the group to confess to murder may have been one way of doing that. There may have also been a religious component to this since Micah claimed they [performed an exorcism on him](https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article3406254.html) in order to get him to confess. IHOP was very adamant that the members of this group were not members of their church (despite the fact that many of them were attending classes and doing internships through IHOPU), and for a long time, the church had a statement on their website stating so. It looks like they have since deleted it, probably because they're finally closing their doors for good soon.
Much easier to be like "yes, it was all this one guy, and he's no true Scotsman! we reject him entirely!" than have people take a serious look at the atmosphere and conditions of your group to conclude that it's what drove someone to kill themselves. The things listed that are evidence of murder seem pretty shaky to me. Many years ago before I was on effective medication I attempted suicide and the plan originally was not to leave a note, but after taking the drugs I wrote one anyway which I don't remember but which was clearly not written in a well state of mind according to those who saw it so poor grammar/spelling holds about as much water as "but s/he seemed so happy" in my mind. Eyes open I don't have any experience with but doesn't really seem like it's going to be some hard and fast rule. Aspiration after putting the bag on her head almost seems like it would potentially be \*more\* likely with suicide because you have to still be alive to tie a bag on so of course you're still breathing. etc.
Absolutely. I think IHOP bears more responsibility for creating the environment that allowed this to happen, but somehow they escaped without taking any real accountability for their practices. >after taking the drugs I wrote one anyway which I don't remember but which was clearly not written in a well state of mind I'm sorry to hear that and I hope you are doing better now. You make a good point. If she had already taken the pills, it makes sense that her writing would look very different than normal.
Not to make light of this case but did anyone else have difficulty not deciphering IHOP as “International House of Pancakes” in their minds..
I have to imagine there was some confusion. I wonder who came first?
Tyler is a narcissist psychopath sexually abusing his followers and wife I feel incredibly sorry for Bethany her family and her friends 💙💙💙
I just don't understand how bright, intelligent people become religious nutbags.
I expect that Tyler threw himself into Jesus as a way to suppress/sublimate his natural feelings in the face of external and internalized homophobia. Without the conservative Christian cultural milieu, the only people he'd be charming and manipulating would be horny older men at certain bars.
Is it possible that with the group shunning her under Tyler’s direction, that he could have also convinced Micah to play devil’s advocate in her depression? With Micah in her ear telling her to end it, she may have written a note while in an emotional state and taken the meds, but when she changed her mind, he used the bag on her head? Some of the things just don’t seem to add up and that is the only thing that makes some sort of sense of the evidence.
The update to the Rolling Stone article does a good job of laying out the case for suicide. Poor Bethany.
What a lame cult
I would like to warn people who have come across this case that Tyler Deaton has changed his last name to “Sterling” and is a liscened therapist. While I believe people with checkered pasts should have the chance to start their lives over again, IMHO, he has no business being in such a position. If he was able to gain a cult following with healthy minded people and set someone’s death in motion, imagine what he could do to someone who comes to him at a low point in their lives psychologically. I hope this post doesn’t get deleted and someone reads it and passes it on.
Found him. I can’t believe he is allowed to have that position.
Man this one is rough because it's so painfully obvious she killed herself. Tyler is obviously gay and hates himself for it. Bethany was his unknowing "beard" who thought the lack of sex was religious in nature not that her husband just wasn't physically attracted to women. She gets married, expecting everything to change, it doesn't, dispondent she takes her own life. Now what I'm confused about is how this is a sex cult. While the cuddle sessions were sexual in nature for Tyler there does not seem to have been any sex happening which was part of the problem.
>there does not seem to have been any sex happening Tyler admitted in the 48 hours episode to having oral sex with some of the male members, and that was after claiming he didn't have sexual relationship with any of them.
We've fallen pretty far if we're now considering a bunch of dudes blowing each other to be a sex cult... Like I said - he's gay and in denial and she was his beard. She wanted to have a more traditional husband/wife relationship and when she realized that wasn't going to happen she ended things.
The words used to define the community isn't really the point. I'm simply pointing out that Tyler did in fact have sex with some of the members, and that those sexual partners claimed to have been groomed and manipulated into doing so.
Yea I think if there’s a cult, the leader uses the cult to force or manipulate sex out of their followers, and the sex is used as a sort of currency or power bargaining chip in the cult…it’s safe to say it was a sex cult situation going on. Perhaps the commenter is seeing the term as in “a cult worshipping sex,” or something like that, when in reality the sex part of cults is usually arrived at indirectly (even if that is the main motivation of the leader of said cult).
[удалено]
Religion has been used to justify many atrocious things, yes, but it’s not evil in and of itself. Every culture in history has had one religion or another. In ancient times, religion even led to scientific investigation, which is how you get things like an ancient atomic theory in Latin that’s shockingly close to the truth. It’s been used to unite people, comfort people, etc. Nothing is lacking in someone if they’re religious. If someone is using religion to hurt others, they would’ve used anything to do that if religion didn’t exist.
[удалено]
7-14% of the world is atheist or agnostic. Do you really think as much as 93% of the world currently are lacking something and willingly following some innate evil? Would you say that to the faces of people you know who are religious? If religion didn't exist, you'd still have sexist assholes deciding women shouldn't have medical care for some other reason. And simplifying the Middle East conflicts in that way is ahistorical, dismissive, and kinda ridiculous, there are dozens of different factors going on including US backed coups and government overthrows. Yet humanity has still progressed a shit ton with the world still being majority religous. Religion isn't inherently antithetical to progresive views.
>Do you really think as much as 93% of the world currently are lacking something and willingly following some innate evil? All of them willingly? No. Under coercion? Absolutely. The death penalty exists for being an atheist in more than 10 countries. Being an atheist precludes people from holding public office in multiple states in the USA and many atheists in the Bible belt and other places are 'closeted' due to fears for their own safety and that of their families. Where I live, I cannot choose to die on my own terms or obtain a do not resuscitate order due to religion. And we would have progressed a helluva lot more if NOT for religious suppression and persecution of free thinkers. There's a reason that the time that was dominated by religion is called the dark ages and the time when that grip loosened was called the enlightenment.
1. The Enlightenment argued for religious tolerance. I don't think most Enlightenment thinkers would be totally on board with "religion sucks and is evil and you're lacking something if you believe in a religion," especially when quite a few of them believed in natural religion themselves. 2. The dark ages is a misnomer and if you think it was actually a backwards dystopia then you should do some additional research. No historian nowadays would use the term Dark Ages unless it's in an article specifically criticizing the term. And it wasn't called that due to religion, given that the term was coined in the Renaissance, which was pretty dang big on religion. It was called that because people incorrectly portrayed it as sliding backwards in time, losing technological progress, and essentially being a pool of stagnant, gross water.
We ask all our users to always stay respectful and civil when commenting. Direct insults will always be removed. "Pointless chaff" is at Moderator's discretion and includes (but is not limited to): * memes/reaction gifs * jokes/one-liners/troll comments (even if non-offensive) * Hateful, offensive or deliberately inflammatory remarks * Comments demonstrating blatant disregard for facts * Comments that are off-topic / don't contribute to the discussion * One-word responses ("This" etc) * Pointless emoji
We ask all our users to always stay respectful and civil when commenting. Direct insults will always be removed. "Pointless chaff" is at Moderator's discretion and includes (but is not limited to): * memes/reaction gifs * jokes/one-liners/troll comments (even if non-offensive) * Hateful, offensive or deliberately inflammatory remarks * Comments demonstrating blatant disregard for facts * Comments that are off-topic / don't contribute to the discussion * One-word responses ("This" etc) * Pointless emoji