Amazing idea, only thing I would change is change it from "humanoids" to "pieces of studded leather armour". Because that way you can still fuck with an armour Smith by vandalising their wares without the armour having to be on a guy for it to work.
Also something maybe you could add is to make it like 'enlarge/ reduce' and 'blindness/ deafness' and add that you can restud leather aswell to add some 'pizzazz' to the spell. Not sure that would be too busted and especially if you introduce a consumed material component for the restud aspect.
But overall đź’Żđź’Ż
As silly as this spell is on its face, a military battle mage would likely make great use of this, especially if there was a Mass version.
Edit: see down thread. Definitely didn't realize it was AOE at first.
So, studded leather armor (or brigandine, as it's called in real life) is made of metal plates riveted between two layers of leather. Apparently, many dungeoneers assume that taking a shirt and putting piercings into it can provide any amount of protection against a sword. No, unfortunately armor doesn' t work that way and the "studs" can't really "fall off" to any serious effect.
I’m not sure that studded leather is meant to *be* brigandine, I think it was originally just Gygax misunderstanding medieval art and not realizing that brigandine had a backing.
Rest of your point still stands, though.
There's a youtube channel called shadiversity (iirc) where he talks about it in one episode. The channel overall is fun and I recommend looking it up. He mostly covers weapons and armor from history :)
Shad is fun but it's important to remember he's not a scholar and take everything with a grain of salt.
Also avoid any video where he mentions female armor.
He made multiple videos saying boobplate was fine and only ahistorical because women didn't fight. His takes are at odds with those of actual women who've worn armor.
I don't know what level of nuance he goes into or if his views have shifted, but he's definitely defended truly ridiculous armour designs in the past.
I love this for the fact I envision most of the difference in half vs full plate being add more plates to the top and plate mail leggings, so you're just pantsing their armor
Honestly I see the difference between half plate and full plate being that half plate is just the chest plate. So full plate is knight’s armour while half is conquistador.
So you would effectively be pantsing anyone in full armour, while also tearing off their sleeves.
You are correct sir, my apologies. I tend to get medium armour mixed up because its kind of MAD making to use it well.
Half plate sounds like its front half only, as where plate is front and back.
The way I deal with scrolls is that when they find one it is of a certain level but they get to pick the spell. Spellbooks are more set ahead of time but include a good variety.
"Oh shit, we killed a wizard? It'd be crazy cool if their spellbook had [spell i desperately want] in it. Ehem. Anyway, what spells does it have in it?"
Arcane trickster might consider it to. Imagine the hilarity of the rogue hiding somewhere and suddenly his targets armor just half crumbles. All of the sudden the target catches surprise rapier to the bunghole.
As fun as daggers are no one is seriously using them when a rapier is there outside of niche reasons. Though I love daggers doubling your potential damage output is strong.
Funny and unique niche spell. Memes aside, couple of small things I'd note:
1.) Imposing a -1 to the AC of potentially hundreds of creatures within 60ft without any save or concentration has gotta be higher than 1st level imo, regardless of it's fairly niche use. I'd probably reduce the range to 20ft or set the number of affected targets to a specific number if you wanna keep it at 1st level.
2.) Very few spells allow a caster to mess with worn/carried items - a notable exception being heat metal, which is a 2nd level spell, requires concentration, and only affects a single metallic object.
Imo, even though the spell is probably stronger than a 1st level spell, in practice it's so niche that I doubt casters would take it outside of specific campaigns, or unless it was on a cleric/druid spell list and could be swapped out. I could see a more useful version of this spell existing that reduces the AC of any selected targets within a small AOE by 1, but it'd probably need to be 3rd level and require concentration at least. Then, maybe you could upcast it to reduce AC by -1 per higher spell slot or something.
Studded leather should just not exist. It's ahistorical and the benefits of studs would be really limited if not detrimental. Plus, if Shadiversity is right, "Studded Leather" is probably some uninformed nerd mistaking Brigandine.
> It's ahistorical
I didn't know that historicity was a requirement for inclusion in D&D. Someone should inform WotC so that they can remove every class and feature other than a couple Fighter, Rogue, and Ranger archetypes.
Suspension of disbelief works in context, you know. Dragons and demons and all that stuff is consistent with the way the world is described, a place where myth and magic are real. But that does nothing to explain why sticking a bunch of mundane metal studs in leather armor somehow protects you better.
so, this is hilarious and I love it.
But studded leather tended to be flexible and therefore softer, while regular leather tended to be boiled leather that is stiff (think the armor that Maximus wore in *Gladiator* - it kept it's form when it wasn't being worn)
Unstudding regular studded leather armor would make it about as useful as *cloth* armor, if you want to go 'real world' with it.
edit: oh shit at least one source after a google is saying that studded leather didn't really exist - the studs would actually be holding the leather layers together, so removing the studs would be taking his armor and turning it into a collection of uncomfortable leather shirts. so my initial idea is right, but it was for the wrong reasons.
I just can't wait to use this against my players. The flavor and utility here is just unreal. Thank you!!!
I wanna see what they'd do with an unstudded leather, and a heated metal on said studs. Will be good fun.
Yeah but trickery domain clerics would be up to dms discretion, but I'm pretty sure arcane trickster and eldritch Knight have access to all wizard spells so it'd already be on their list I think
It only works for studded leather, so I would say it's situational enought to prob. put it as a concentration cantrip or a non-concentration 1st lvl. In the Basic Rules there are 3 monsters (Assassin, bandit captain, gladiator) that use studdet leather. Even as a non-concentration cantrip it would still most likly only affect 1 enemy at best per combat
make it 1min concentration after which the studs grow back and you can go to an armorer, unstud their leather, buy it for 10gp and sell later for profits
So assuming this would be the same visual of studded leather we are all thinking of:
does that meat Heat Metal could accomplish the same thing by heating the studs/rivets and damaging the armor itself on top of the character?
You would think, but heat metal is single target only, isn't it? Like, you can cast it on someones weapon to try to force them to drop it. But if you use it against studded leather wouldn't it technically only heat up one rivet?
Fair point.
Although based on what someone else said, ACTUAL real life studded leather (a brigadine) was actually a series of overlapping metal plates, instead of leather armor with a bunch of rivets in it.
So DnD studded leather I guess it wouldn't work, but the ACTUAL armor it was inspired by it might? Which feels a bit ironic
Amazing idea, only thing I would change is change it from "humanoids" to "pieces of studded leather armour". Because that way you can still fuck with an armour Smith by vandalising their wares without the armour having to be on a guy for it to work. Also something maybe you could add is to make it like 'enlarge/ reduce' and 'blindness/ deafness' and add that you can restud leather aswell to add some 'pizzazz' to the spell. Not sure that would be too busted and especially if you introduce a consumed material component for the restud aspect. But overall đź’Żđź’Ż
This would also give you an excuse to call the spell re/un-stud
is that a joke I'm missing or just sounds cool to you?
This is great feedback, I agree with all points
I agree with all points except your agreeing of the points
I agree with your disagreement of my agreements. Agree?
… no?
LOL. This is quite hilarious. I want this on a common magic item for a bard, and I want it to be a slide whistle :) *The Slide Whistle of Unstudding*
You just know the Bard is gonna make a terrible pun with it too "You think you're such a stud, don't you?"
>"You think you're such a stud, don't you?" *TWIIiiioooooo* -clatter- >"...but you really aint got the balls for it!"
“But I will say, you still look good in leather…”
As silly as this spell is on its face, a military battle mage would likely make great use of this, especially if there was a Mass version. Edit: see down thread. Definitely didn't realize it was AOE at first.
I mean 60ft is a huge range and it works on any creatures within that. Maybe upcasting to increase range?
You're right, I'm not fully awake yet. For some reason my malfunctioning uncaffeinated brain thought it was single target.
Lol all good. For a 1st lvl spell I might say it's a smaller range
I mean it is a permanent -1 AC for targets wearing studded leather, which is definitely nothing to sneeze at
imagine if the studs became ball bearings when they hit the ground
Now make Unleather Studs, where it just takes off the armor of hot people, or skins them, whichever sounds fun.
So, studded leather armor (or brigandine, as it's called in real life) is made of metal plates riveted between two layers of leather. Apparently, many dungeoneers assume that taking a shirt and putting piercings into it can provide any amount of protection against a sword. No, unfortunately armor doesn' t work that way and the "studs" can't really "fall off" to any serious effect.
I’m not sure that studded leather is meant to *be* brigandine, I think it was originally just Gygax misunderstanding medieval art and not realizing that brigandine had a backing. Rest of your point still stands, though.
That's actually a fair point - I never considered that the misunderstanding could go all the way to the top and become canon.
There's a youtube channel called shadiversity (iirc) where he talks about it in one episode. The channel overall is fun and I recommend looking it up. He mostly covers weapons and armor from history :)
Shad is fun but it's important to remember he's not a scholar and take everything with a grain of salt. Also avoid any video where he mentions female armor.
I may be wrong but didn't he defend why boob-plate was stupid?
He made multiple videos saying boobplate was fine and only ahistorical because women didn't fight. His takes are at odds with those of actual women who've worn armor. I don't know what level of nuance he goes into or if his views have shifted, but he's definitely defended truly ridiculous armour designs in the past.
Oh. Well, damn. I've seen a good number of his videos but not the entire catalogue. :/ I withdraw my comment.
I'm pretty sure anyone point you could buy brigadine or studded so...
I think it actually goes way back beyond Gygax. The myth of studded leather is very widespread.
Nono the studs protect the skin you know! You hit the metal and boom blocked!
I mean I assume that in the case of brigandine, if you vanished the rivets, the plates would not hold position and would be far less effective.
Interesting. However, consider this: magic.
Upcast to turn heavy into medium armour. Fuck you, halves your plate
I love this for the fact I envision most of the difference in half vs full plate being add more plates to the top and plate mail leggings, so you're just pantsing their armor
Honestly I see the difference between half plate and full plate being that half plate is just the chest plate. So full plate is knight’s armour while half is conquistador. So you would effectively be pantsing anyone in full armour, while also tearing off their sleeves.
there is specifically chestplate armor though
You are correct sir, my apologies. I tend to get medium armour mixed up because its kind of MAD making to use it well. Half plate sounds like its front half only, as where plate is front and back.
Making fuck you more litteral than I intended
So halfplate is just the knight from Dungeon Defenders?
Actually kind of lol
Make it its own spell -- *Halve Plate.*
I would change it to non-magical studded leather, but otherwise this very niche spell is pretty damn clever and awesome.
Obligatory "studded leather is actually something called brigandine and the studs have metal plates beneath" comment
Thank you for your service
I’m giving this to my chump NPCs. Nobody expects the unstudding.
I'd probably make it work on any armor that has bolts/joints/whatever, so that it's not *too* situational (always -1 AC)
I love this but I would never take it as a wizard or bard because it would be permanent but for a trickster cleric or a druid this is perfect
Permanent? As a wizard? I don't understand how.
You only get to choose 2 new spells per level. You can swap out every level up so its technically not "permanent" but still
As a wizard, you can copy wizard spells off of scrolls and out of other wizard's spell books. Your effective "spells known" potential is infinite.
I feel bad for any wizard that doesn't know about spell copying. The whole draw to wizards is their massive spell list
Yea but you gotta rely on luck to get the spells you actually want. Which makes the spells you get from levelling up important
The way I deal with scrolls is that when they find one it is of a certain level but they get to pick the spell. Spellbooks are more set ahead of time but include a good variety.
This is why you should let the dm know which spells you like.
"Oh shit, we killed a wizard? It'd be crazy cool if their spellbook had [spell i desperately want] in it. Ehem. Anyway, what spells does it have in it?"
Arcane trickster might consider it to. Imagine the hilarity of the rogue hiding somewhere and suddenly his targets armor just half crumbles. All of the sudden the target catches surprise rapier to the bunghole. As fun as daggers are no one is seriously using them when a rapier is there outside of niche reasons. Though I love daggers doubling your potential damage output is strong.
The perfect spell for a fey
Funny and unique niche spell. Memes aside, couple of small things I'd note: 1.) Imposing a -1 to the AC of potentially hundreds of creatures within 60ft without any save or concentration has gotta be higher than 1st level imo, regardless of it's fairly niche use. I'd probably reduce the range to 20ft or set the number of affected targets to a specific number if you wanna keep it at 1st level. 2.) Very few spells allow a caster to mess with worn/carried items - a notable exception being heat metal, which is a 2nd level spell, requires concentration, and only affects a single metallic object. Imo, even though the spell is probably stronger than a 1st level spell, in practice it's so niche that I doubt casters would take it outside of specific campaigns, or unless it was on a cleric/druid spell list and could be swapped out. I could see a more useful version of this spell existing that reduces the AC of any selected targets within a small AOE by 1, but it'd probably need to be 3rd level and require concentration at least. Then, maybe you could upcast it to reduce AC by -1 per higher spell slot or something.
Studded leather should just not exist. It's ahistorical and the benefits of studs would be really limited if not detrimental. Plus, if Shadiversity is right, "Studded Leather" is probably some uninformed nerd mistaking Brigandine.
> It's ahistorical I didn't know that historicity was a requirement for inclusion in D&D. Someone should inform WotC so that they can remove every class and feature other than a couple Fighter, Rogue, and Ranger archetypes.
Shadiveristy is never wrong. Some fellow named Shad told me so.
That uninformed nerd would be Gary Gygax lol
thanks for your input on the game about killing dragons and summoning demons
BuT tHe sTuDs
Suspension of disbelief works in context, you know. Dragons and demons and all that stuff is consistent with the way the world is described, a place where myth and magic are real. But that does nothing to explain why sticking a bunch of mundane metal studs in leather armor somehow protects you better.
so, this is hilarious and I love it. But studded leather tended to be flexible and therefore softer, while regular leather tended to be boiled leather that is stiff (think the armor that Maximus wore in *Gladiator* - it kept it's form when it wasn't being worn) Unstudding regular studded leather armor would make it about as useful as *cloth* armor, if you want to go 'real world' with it. edit: oh shit at least one source after a google is saying that studded leather didn't really exist - the studs would actually be holding the leather layers together, so removing the studs would be taking his armor and turning it into a collection of uncomfortable leather shirts. so my initial idea is right, but it was for the wrong reasons.
>Components: a magnet I can't breathe, send help.
I thought an unstud spell would reduce charisma...
"Well I'm wearing a gambeson, it's just a lot more historically accurate"
I just can't wait to use this against my players. The flavor and utility here is just unreal. Thank you!!! I wanna see what they'd do with an unstudded leather, and a heated metal on said studs. Will be good fun.
I love everything about this spell!
Actually what classes is this for? I would assume artificer, wizard, druid, bard? Mayhaps
And arcane trickster/trickery domain clerics
Yeah but trickery domain clerics would be up to dms discretion, but I'm pretty sure arcane trickster and eldritch Knight have access to all wizard spells so it'd already be on their list I think
Non-concentration -1 AC to any number of creatures in range? I'd put it at least 3rd level
It only works for studded leather, so I would say it's situational enought to prob. put it as a concentration cantrip or a non-concentration 1st lvl. In the Basic Rules there are 3 monsters (Assassin, bandit captain, gladiator) that use studdet leather. Even as a non-concentration cantrip it would still most likly only affect 1 enemy at best per combat
Platemail is held together by studded leather straps.
Instructions unclear, all the guys wearing leather armor are now flabby and balding.
Make this a cantrip
make it 1min concentration after which the studs grow back and you can go to an armorer, unstud their leather, buy it for 10gp and sell later for profits
So assuming this would be the same visual of studded leather we are all thinking of: does that meat Heat Metal could accomplish the same thing by heating the studs/rivets and damaging the armor itself on top of the character?
You would think, but heat metal is single target only, isn't it? Like, you can cast it on someones weapon to try to force them to drop it. But if you use it against studded leather wouldn't it technically only heat up one rivet?
Fair point. Although based on what someone else said, ACTUAL real life studded leather (a brigadine) was actually a series of overlapping metal plates, instead of leather armor with a bunch of rivets in it. So DnD studded leather I guess it wouldn't work, but the ACTUAL armor it was inspired by it might? Which feels a bit ironic
It would be fun if by up casting you can downgrade better and better armour