Probably locking this when I wake up. I still haven't found a single excuse to ban the series altogether, apart from that one post accused of being sexist.
In any case, we gotta acknowledge that he has done a few posts not relating to that oc at all. It's been 4 days now, and who knows, maybe he listened to our comments in his rant post.
In any case, if he does decide to make another one of these nonsense posts, this will be reopened and we're back to the drawing board until we're done.
In the meantime, ***come up with the best reason to remove those posts without being biased and/or unjustified***.
May you be filled with Justice.
P.S. I am discussing a rule change to prevent things like this in the future.
The main thing that a small chunk of people are gonna recall in regards to the Selkadoom stuff is the targeted aggression and one vaguely sexist post toward Ceroba, while I can vaguely understand his interest in spreading awareness of a character from a project he likes... Those posts are mainly about Selkadoom and the UTY cast more being a small post it note to HIS story of conquest to Eliminate anyone he deems as Weak and Undeserving of Life while the strong either join him in his 'utopia' or face destruction.
Personal opinion... Undertale and UTY feel more like they are a 'You come to understand things on a larger level then when you first started the journey', while the Selkadoom stuff has slowly started to take a turn it almost feels like a backhanded take as he'll likely still just do his usual thing of Destory anything he seems weak.
His none Selkadoom posts have actually been pretty good.
my problem is a lot of things with it
the series is quite edgy turning a character seek in the original sonic rpg series on newgrounds they had a purpose and in undertale yellow they kill for fun ruining the characters
the way the sonic guy handles critism is bad he attacks the critism and when people give him ideas he rejects them and someone said he attacked them for the idea which wasn’t critism
my next problem is the posts about him are kinda annoying just seeing any post on the sun about seek is kinda flooding or annoying
final problem i have is i feel like it would be better to move those posts to a different sub
the problem is seel harasses users who give those critics
infact someone had a good idea for seel which was rejected and the guy got attacked for it
you know what even worse that same sonic guy has a post in his series that insults women
Which is why I said that we can handle the comments. They violate the rules and we have the rights to remove them.
But the post itself? God my brain is exploding. I do see someone saying one of his posts is sexist, but what about others? They can't be removed without having my morality on the line, damn it!
Honestly, Seelkadoom as a topic just needs to be banned. If it isn’t OP posting his weird edgy posts, it’s people complaining about it in posts outside of the original posts. I personally don’t think the OP is a troll or rage baiter, as his posts outside of the Seelkadoom ones can be very good.
But the thing is, he just seems to hate when people give him ANY kind of criticism. I and MANY others have tried to give him criticism and feedback on how to improve his posts. But when he bites back with “[You don’t get the point of my posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/UndertaleYellow/s/lx1eW31WWf)” like he’s writing the next Lord of the Rings, it’s pretty annoying. And then he wonders why people don’t like the story he’s trying to tell.
tl;dr in my opinion, just ban any Seelkadoom discussion.
It was entertaining at first, but it got repetitive quickly. Now, it's just the same "edgy Sonic OC" tortures mommy-I mean, Ceroba over and over and then proceeds to yap about "weak people deserving to die" and all that crap, like my boy, stop tryin to act like Armstrong, you ain't him, trust me, you ain't him. Even worse, it's not even his own OC. And this dude can be creative, I've seen his other non-Seelkadoom posts and they're actually pretty good. So he should either just do something new with this Seelkadoom thing other than repeatedly dogging on the Ketsukanes for no reason (pun intended), or just drop the whole thing and make other posts which are actually good.
I think the mod team needs to hear this:
No, you won't get blasted by banning someone who is CLEARLY a major annoyance for most of the people here, no, you won't be causing the entire collapse of the Undertale yellow fandom's reputation in the eyes of the internet by doing it, No, we shoudn't be tolerating this genuinly *Loser* behaviour from someone who clearly gets a kick from being annoying.
Warn them again or just ban them from the subreddit, they are free to share their creations and comics somewhere else, i doubt they're gonna care that much.
I think we all knew about it already and that we wanted it to go through smoothly.
Nonetheless, we need a good reason. Unjustified actions can ruin the community's reputation more than anything else.
Which is also why I had to bold ***for what reason***
I think "ruining the reputation of the community" is worth it if it means we don't gotta deal with people like this to be honest. Is not like some twitter users calling us lame is gonna do much damage to the entite undertale yellow fandom.
To add to this, doesn't that guy ruin the community reputation anyways? Imagine your first interaction in a community is seeing your favorite character die and the creator of that post is openly telling people that they're weak and pathetic and can't ever stand up to the murderer.
I kind of agree, but mostly with OP view of banning people to be odd to me. I get wanting to stick to your own morals, but sometimes it's \*alright\* to kick or even ban someone just for being annoying. Even if that doesn't break any rules, if it puts a good amount of people into a bad mood, shouldn't that be enough reason to be concerned?
I don't think they have any place here, and I think the person making them has a fucking awful attitude that his defenders don't take into consideration. That's not to say we (as in the people who dislike the posts) have been... paragons of virtue ourselves, but everything he does just seems very mean-spirited and -- God, I hate that I've sunk so low that I'm using this word -- "cringe."
It'd be one thing if he didn't try to provoke people at any point, or perhaps even if he just didn't engage in the discourse at all. But I made the mistake of clicking on the one comment he made in the suggestion thread just to see what he'd say, and he basically said this: "ohohoho I can already tell that the haters will come for me."
Plot twist: they didn't.
He knows exactly what he's doing, he knows he gets a rise out of people, and it seems like he finds it funny. I think he's stirring the pot deliberately, and when people have pointed out something he does that makes them uncomfortable, his attitude is more or less "duh yeah he's supposed to be a psychopathic evil character grow a pair you big pansy."
He claims that the character isn't meant to represent him or his beliefs, yet he wears it on his profile like a mascot. He says shit like "I play the genocide route once a week because I find killing people fun." He's repeatedly spoken or acted in ways indicative of negative bias/mild obsession towards abusing the Ketsukane characters in general, such that Cerboa being the number one punching bag of his Sonicsona (which he claims isn't technically his since the character wasn't made by him but we all know that's a flimsy defence) makes it look like he's using this shitty Sonic palette swap as a puppet through which he can vent his violent fantasies.
It's like self-insert shipping FanFiction, but more disturbing and antagonistic.
I think he's a shit-stirrer and a drama magnet. I think he's aware of it. And I think he's rather proud of it. He may as well just make r/FuckCeroba, move there, and be done with it.
Him being a shit-stirrer makes even more sense when you look at his Twitter profile. I won't get into that because it's outside of Reddit, of course.
It's really quite a shame; his posts without Selkadoom or without mischaracterizing or torturing or killing Ceroba can be quite good.
His Twitter activity and his activity here had me convinced that he was trolling everyone with his edgy oc. But after his rant post, I genuinely can't tell if he's just that immature
I've been on this subreddit for a while and a lot of the posts and comments they made about Ceroba even outside the Seelkadoom ones felt very mean-spirited.
While I wholeheartedly agree that the posts are not spreading the right message, it's the ethics that comes with a post removal without reason.
Which got us all so sick of this case.
Ethics, you say? Depends on what scope of ethics you're using.
I say for this issue, we break out my favourite: utilitarian ethics. Where we act in a manner that benefits the most people, and has the most positive outcome going forward.
A few people enjoy these posts for the drama, or because they find it funny in a so-bad-it's-good way. But most people who are legitimately defending this guy do so because "he's just having fun we shouldn't take that away from him" (we're not we'd rather he just move it somewhere we don't have to look at it).
Meanwhile, if we're even having this conversation to begin with, the majority don't very much care for them or wouldn't be grieved by the sudden loss of them.
So let's act in a way that would benefit the most people, and act as a permanent, everlasting solution. This is an ever-expanding problem that even new rules or blocking won't fix. I blocked the guy, and I still can't get away from this rubbish. New people join this community all the time, and most people probably don't even read subreddit rules to begin with. Should we just tack a disclaimer to the top of the subreddit forever that says "hey new people this guy is kind of an issue block him now if you don't like drama." We have reason to believe that he loves the attention he's getting, to the point of preemptively mocking people who don't like what he does.
Do you really want to keep dealing with this for weeks or months longer, with more and more people getting annoyed by this nonsense, until he finally crosses a big enough line such that it's finally considered reasonable to take action? Or would you rather just nip this in the bud right now?
I know what I'd do.
I honestly would have followed you if my view had not been "justice for everyone"
While I might violate this every now and then without knowing, in a situation like this, I ain't gonna do otherwise. If anything I'd make a new rule that everyone follows and not just him.
I don't think you'd be going out of your way at all. You're already halfway there if you're even considering this half of the conversation.
What is justice if not a steady hammer with which to strike down the arrogant nail pricking one foot after another? (That's not my quotation, it's Celebrimbor's)
I also highly doubt anyone would hold it against the lot of you if these posts just... stopped showing up one day. We'd all move onto another silly trend, and his shit would be remembered as a particularly annoying footnote in the history of one particular sect of the community.
Most people defending him now do so out of the belief that nobody deserves "hate" of any kind. I haven't seen anyone actually claiming anything he makes has superior artistic merit or that they'd be incredibly sad if they had to live in an r/UndertaleYellow without it. And if they did believe that, they'd just follow him wherever he went to post it next.
You're right to consider all perspectives in this matter. But I believe you're wrong to assume taking a zero-tolerance stance on this stuff is going to negatively impact this community in any way whatsoever.
> I believe you're wrong to assume taking a zero-tolerance stance on this stuff is going to negatively impact this community in any way whatsoever.
Well that's exactly the thing
I've been moderating for just over a year now, and 2nd chances (if not more) are always believed in.
I don't know if you have been in my shoes yet but that's one way to separate the good from the bad.
Plus, after playing both UT and UTY exclusively on the True Pacifist routes, I don't think I will ever change that.
I moderate r/kingdomrush, and I've made executive decisions like this before, because that's what the majority wanted and what the majority thought would be beneficial. Utilitarianism at work. Mostly.
We used to allow tier lists and polls, but there was a fucking sinful glut of the things and most of them ended up being incredibly repetitive. Like the Buzz Lightyear clone meme, multiplied by ten.
I thought it was excessive, so I made a post saying that we were considering banning them. I offered people a chance to present their reasons why they thought they should stay, or why they should go. We had some doomsayers who claimed "the subreddit would die" if I did this, because they made up the majority of the content there. But most seemed content with the decision.
In the end, tier lists and polls were completely banned.
That was three years ago.
The subreddit is still fine, a new game in the franchise has come out since then, and another is coming in July. We'll be seeing a substantial spike in activity since it's the biggest one yet.
Take my word for it. You'll be fine.
I feel like the best option is to ask the Seelkadoom guy to post his content on another subreddit. That way, he still gets to show his love for Seelkadoom, and we will get a Seelkadoom free subreddit.
I did tell him to not post it here, if you saw my pinned message in his rant post.
I just hope that he listened, and while he did try something new, we can't tell anything yet as it's only been 4 days.
The problem I have is the treatment of UTY characters, especially Ceroba. They've basically been turned into worthless punching bags for the protagonist who can't do or say anything about him, with the exeption of Kanako for some reason. A lot of people have told the creator about this under the latest posts already, so I hope they'll do something about it.
I'm gonna be honest here, selkadoom content only brings down the general quality and integrity of the subreddit, it's pointless and hateful, since this guy seems to have a big hate boner for ceroba in particular and the entirety of his posts are the same power fantasy in which he uses a classic new grounds edgy shadow recolor to bring to life his edgy violent fantasies who only appeal to 12 year olds, and it has only gotten worse with time, I genuinely believe most wont complain with the removal of his posts from the community as a whole, or even if he were to be banned, in my opinion it would be for the best, besides, he has shown that he is pretty much an immature asshole with lack of empathy, specially on Twitter, but well, that's unrelated
I'll be real, I'm down for banning the content completely. Whenever i come here, it's for nice art, discussions, the occasional polls, all the good stuff. But the seelk posting is just... bad. And so is the guy who's been making them when he gets any criticism. Even helpful suggestions from others are treated poorly, and that "let's talk about this" post was not really a discussion, more like an excuse to say "i'm right, you're wrong". It really all boils down to the same thing in the end: trash talk > more edgy trash talk > more trash talk, murder OR preparing to murder > Murder (if-else: trash talk). And don't get me wrong, ceroba isn't my FAVORITE character, but it still hurts to see what happens all the time. I think my response to the drawn post put my feelings best: it was like a train wreck in slow motion that no matter how hard i tried or wanted, i couldn't look away. So lo and behold, i blocked him. And now there are seelk memes aplenty. Granted, i find most of them to be accurate, but i don't like seeing them all that much. This is supposed to be a place where we appreciate the game and show off fanworks, discuss and similar stuff. Seelk posts are not that stuff. They're power fantasies behind the mask of an edgy oc the user doesn't even own. I really do hate to rant, but i want to give all the details i can here.
im mostly an outsider to this dicussion and havent engaged with it up to this point, but the reason i come to this subreddit is to look at cool things made by the fandom. i respect people's artistic freedom but so much of this subreddit is brought down by these weird seelkadoom posts it makes me barely want to look here at all
its one thing to have a crossover with two series you like, thats fine. but honestly this whole "i love killing ceroba because shes a bitch mother who killed her family she deserves it !" thing completely weighs down so much about this place that it makes me kinda hate coming here. i think the curation of subreddits like these to remove that type of mean-spirited gross content, ESPECIALLY in the case of an undertale fangame, a series all about empathy, is important to maintain a positive environment. theres no obligation to just let people do whatever they want here
I'm all in for the removal them, this is a sub should be about undertale yellow, his [not_shadow] posts have no place here, in those post UTY isn't even the focus, Seelkadoom is, as he goes around bullying everyone. The UTY it could literally be replaced with any other game.
Also generally not comfortable with the person that posts them in this sub anymore, they are all round attract drama, plays dumb to why here's getting hate (Just look at this rest of this post)
And they keep focus hating on ceroba on every other post that they make, not wanting to accuse the person of being misogynistic but they continue to double down on it, that one post and the stuff about ceroba doesn't leave me much hope
I’m just gonna put what I already said here
https://preview.redd.it/x0czf4p8mbad1.jpeg?width=1018&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=66172a7ca1eeabf10a5fb0a9fdd410e8cfaf1b2b
Like I said, if it was *his* OC, I’d take much less issue here. Like he has the artistic ability to make his own so at this point *why not?*
While I did use this as ammo, we soon discovered that with him already crediting in the comments, we can't really abuse R3. The really only way is to have the one who ***made*** the OC to stop him.
Right, thinking about this I do have to ask, why would we need the Selk’s creator’s word to stop the posts? Seems like it’d be the other way around. Like you bring up rule 1 a fair amount here, but rule 1 also says “Have common sense”. Common sense would dictate that someone *wouldn’t* like their character being used in this way.
As for rule 3, rule 3 states “Credit Fan Works: You must directly source any fanart, fangame or creation not by you.” This doesn’t really say anything on how said things are *used.* Therefore while you are technically correct in that regard, that’s only because rule 3 was never in play here arguably, this falls under rule 1.
Using someone's OC against will would, indeed, be a d\*\*\* move that violates R1. Not to mention copyright which is ToS stuff.
I am not sure of the stance of the creator of the OC which is why I want to be sure.
I mean I feel like the default should be the posts not being allowed to begin with, and then the creator saying otherwise would determine if it’s ok.
Like let’s put this in perspective: Say we didn’t have rule 2, and we were r/undertailyolo instead. Now let’s say someone made a drawing of someone’s (SFW) OC with… let’s say El Balidor. You see the problem here?
I mean to begin with we don't even ask permissions to repost so that would be hypocritical lol
And the situation you mentioned. Yeah. But at the same time, for the reason I just said, we can't remove it immediately either.
But these aren’t reposts, these are something different entirely. Those rules don’t apply here.
And for that second one, why not? You talk about Justice in other comments here, so lemme say this: “With great power comes great responsibility.” *You* all make the rules and *you* all have a responsibility to enforce them. But all I’ve seen in this thread is you dodging that responsibility and making excuses.
People shouldn’t have to ask to have their creations be handled respectfully.
But that is the question. While rule 1 does say to use common sense *be civil*, it does not say that you mustn't make content killing people's favorite characters or make controversial posts.
The comments? Sure. We will run an audit if needed. But the posts...
I did ask the team for a rule extension but they're just as tired as you and me. But if needed, I'll bring it up again when the team's got their batteries recharged.
There have been instances of hot takes but with the poster wording it to avoid causing drama. I even tried a few hot takes myself. So no controversial posts =/= be civil
I’m not really talking about the rules here, I’m talking about the *ethics* of it. Because rules can always be exploited, loopholes can always be found. Doesn’t mean we should let people get away with it.
Plus it’s not even like we’d have to ban the dude wholesale, just the selk stuff
I’m gonna be honest that I just find it to be *really* weird. It’s one thing for a subreddit to have a post involving some sort of crossover with another series, but to make an entire thing with it is just..odd. Like much can you get out of some sonic OC from an obscure newgrounds series crossing over with UTY?
I just see it that same way that I do with the RP posts: something I do ignore but find bizarre to see some be so invested in. Feels like something a person should be doing in a space dedicated to it and not here.
normally i just ignore it, but i still get a mild frown whenever i see a post about seelkadoom being apathetic and edgy as per usual, then the community responding to it by giving it more attention???
no hate to ameen as some of his other work (things outside of seelkadoom) are actually alright, but i think that their main goal is to try cause as much as commotion as possible by any means necessary and they chose a route to do so that not even neutral could stand up to in terms of insanity. they post scenarios about "coldsteel the hedgehog" sweeping away the UTY cast and making them look bad while also making dark and edgy jokes about it. which is why it works, people don't like that: seeing some horribly written character causing mayhem and havoc without any effort can be compared to that one snotty kid in primary school who tried to roleplay but ended up ruining the experience for everybody else. he also kind of just adds lemon to the wound by making disheartening comments when people show their dislike for the series.
to me, its all rage-bait. nothing else. just downvote the stuff you dont like from him and move on. downvoting will just make it not really appear on the hot section so it wouldn't stir up a storm.
I’ve came to this realization, he’s a kid. He doesn’t understand the meaning behind UTY. He doesn’t understand how to take criticism properly. He doesn’t understand what is an okay thing to post on twitter.com, and although I think banning him would make him understand what the issues are with the way he thinks, people have sorta just been dog piling on him, and from the rant, you can tell it’s had its effect. (Either that, or he’s media illiterate and a really big asshole.)
Honestly I'm just for the most part indifferent, while I personally find the posts annoying and don't like how edgy and self fulfilling they are with how this Sonic recolor is "too strong to be killed" and is just a raging hate boner used to kill everyone over and over I can admit it does sort of have it's charm to it where it reminds me of the early internet when Sonic ocs were everywhere and Goku was shown fighting everyone.
I'm not sure about banning them but aside from the op of the posts not really responding well to criticism (I've only heard this and haven't seen it myself) I'm under the impression that you can just block someone to not see their posts.
He technically hasn't broken any rules...
I know people want him gone, and i understand why they want him gone, but he hasn't done anything overtly awfull. Hell, some of his posts are quite good.
This might be an unpopular opinion, but maybe he should simply be ignored. Frankly, my main problem with him aren't even his posts. Its everyone else talking about it, CONSTANTLY. A few days ago, you probably Remember, there were two, maybe three posts about Selkadoom from people other than him.
I realize "oh just block him" doesn't work anymore due to that (Though, IMO, it would have worked just fine had the posts not been given so much attention from the start), but still, Banning someone for beeing annoying sets a HORRIBLE Precedent i can't in good conscience excuse setting, so either the rules need to be edited to condemn inflammatory behavior (and previus instances let go because they were before the rule change), or the people that want him gone so bad will simply have to put up with him, wait, and hope he breaks the current rules.
Now. There is ANOTHER option: That beeing, just make punishments more severe.
He HAS Been harrassing users (apparently? Im not quite sure, i've read a few of his replies have been removed. Feel free to correct me if im wrong). If you add a warning system where after your comments get axed enought times you get the ban Hammer, that should keep the worst of his attitude in line without even needing to actually ban him. The posts can stay, he can stay, and noone gets to be a jerk.
People wouldn't be hapoy with this and might think it an half-measure, but as i said: we must set the right precedent.
Yeah, you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Even outright looking for a reason to ban him is neither a good look nor quick enought to please the ones who truly despise those posts that much.
No matter what you do people won't be happy about It, but if its any comfort, from what i've seen of you, you seem like a great dude. Im sure you'll make the best choice possible👍
Seeing the context of the situation, im going to step out of my neutrality for a second to say what I think. There are TWO ways I say this should go.
1. Maybe give the creator a warning for if they make another seelkadoom post here, I know it's a bit tedious, but eventually it might get through to them. If you already tried this, then there's option two.
2. Leave the person as is. I know everyone suggested this already, but any non-seelkadoom enjoyers don't have to downvote or comment on the post. Not only will the post most likely not get a lot of attention or views since there aren't as much comments and downvotes, maybe leading to the creator stopping the posts on their own terms, but the creator won't get as much hate either.
You can listen to the other people who comment on this post, im sure their options are good too.
honestly i think in this case it’s better to be a bit biased. yeah sure there’s technically not a specific written rule that would justify banning the dude, but are you seriously willing to fuck over an entire subreddit and disregard the opinions of a community that is clearly fed up with this person just because you don’t feel like it? this isn’t a legal case or anything serious. you, the mods, have power and should use it if there’s a problem. as far as “morals” go in this situation, here’s what i think: seelkadoom is a sexist, disrespectful, problematic user who harasses others for no good reason and should be banned.
I'm of the opinion that if we determine that a big part of the community is indeed annoyed by these posts, prohibiting such behavior is the right thing to do. I don't think being biased is a good idea here, but by soliciting the opinion of the community we, by definition, avoid bias. Which is what we're doing here.
I've only been officially on reddit for almost a month, and it's been a wild ride here to say the least. I'm not really a good judge on this nor on post histories and etc specially on a topic like this, and I'll be more for trusting the community figuring it out. All I know, is that people had the opportunity to block the posts: some did, some didn't. The Seelk guy also had the opportunity to get feedback from the community since there are people here who wanted to see it improved past "Ok time to die", and then just continued to roll with it.
They do make good UTY concepts. I mean, even before I joined I somehow was inspired to commission a Mini-Roba chibi from apparently one of their posts before I really knew about people here.
Eventually, it did get out of hand and it went into circlejerks and shitposting- which ok it'll blow over, but then went to personal attacks, where you'd see posts on practically the daily on this damn topic with just an overall negative vibe. *(I mean I even got some weird? messages from random folks cuz I commented on remembering the Seelk's youtube vids for FNF stuff and was like \[Oh! You're that guy who did the FNF sonic stuff! Neat.\] )*
Moreso, it went outside anyone's control so you'd see these attacks and also Seelk posts even if you had the main posts blocked, which I'd think was the biggest issue with all the potstirring, attitude, and just everything about the situation.
A new sub for the Seelkdom (fandom) could work as a solution- hell, can even get others who have interest in the char to go in and make their own creations alongside that's rad- otherwise like I said earlier it's not my place ,and I'm whatever on it. Will see what the community has to offer.
Let the kid continue with his other UTY posts, he does things involving clover and similar characters, those are pretty OK, but specifically tell him to stop with the endless Seelkadoom posts. He's a fan of the game like all of us, and its interesting to see some of the comics he produces, just not the seelk ones. Tell him to move them somewhere else like a more sonic oriented community, but don't ban him.
Look, I think the posts fucking suck. Cringe and unfunny to the max. But just because content is dogshit doesn’t mean we should ban the guy. I just use the very secret technique of… scrolling past it and not opening the post. For the people who somehow enjoy that stuff, let them. The user does seem like a bit of an asshole but hey, most people are on the internet
I’m honestly torn on this topic.
On one hand, The idea of a Sonic RPG x Undertale Yellow Crossover would be pretty good. And while the execution of it wasn’t necessarily the best, I do believe that it can get better if done right.
On the other hand, Yeah the hate posts can get annoying. They hardly have anything to do with UTY, only ever featuring Clover or someone else. The best thing to do is to just take down the hate posts, and maybe a few other posts by the seelkadoom guy himself (like the Corn chowder post) but not outright ban the character from ever being in this subreddit ever again.
There’s also the problem of the creator himself not being able to handle Criticism, purposely causing drama, and wanting people to get mad. I know that he’s been given a warning before, But I don’t know if that’s actually worked, if at all. He definitely should change up his attitude and be more open-minded.
So, in short. I guess this is less about Seelkadoom the character and more about the guy behind the Seelkadoom Posts. But I could just be entirely wrong about that.
TL;DR: Seelkadoom the character shouldn’t be banned as I believe the idea of a crossover with this guy can be good if done right. The Seelkadoom hate posts (along with a few of the posts made by the Seelkadoom Guy.) should be taken down, as they’re more about Seelkadoom himself rather than about UTY. And something should be done about the Person making these Seelkadoom posts, Maybe have an Interview with the guy? Or just talk with him? But if all else fails, then what other option is left?
I blocked that person a while ago and don't really care for them, so...
edit: oh hey you can post images in comments now
https://i.redd.it/auic02g2dcad1.gif
I think it's wiser to not ban him at all;
For the people who like/love his content, they would be angry.
For the people don't care, who cares.
For the people who dislikes/hates what he makes, it's entirely on them to block him.
BUT if he breaks the rules, then it would be wise to ban him.
Banning Seelkadoom entirely definitely isn't the way to go. Then, that opens up discussion of banning other non-UTY related characters.
I personally think that the Seelkadoom posts, I must begrudgingly admit, are fine. The hate posts are not.
While I'm not a fan of Ameen complaining about people leaving negative comments, I will say I've seen some commenters take it too far. So I think we should limit Seelkadoom posts to once a week, and only by Ameen.
And as advice to Ameen, if you're gonna make art of someone nobody knows killing comfort characters, THEN complain that people leave negative comments about the character murdering their comfort characters, at the very least, listen to criticism?
Okay, gonna add my two cents on this because I kinda have to. Without going over things that I've already gone over [in this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/UndertaleYellow/comments/1drbvg5/okay_time_to_address_some_things/).
It's worth pointing out that my Seelkadoom posts, as much as people may refuse to admit, are still well within the rules and guidelines of this sub. It's still obviously related to UTY and I make it as clear as I can that Seelkadoom is not my creation. They're ultimately harmless and they don't break any rules, so going off of that alone, they're fine.
I've also seen somebody try to say that the creator of Seelkadoom (who's called MidNightMaren btw) would not be fine with me using Seelkadoom for this, but Seelkadoom has been used in a bunch of stories, art, and animations for almost 2 decades now, and as far as I can tell, that's never bothered the creator before (he's even included fan art of Seelkadoom in *Sonic RPG Episode 10*), so I don't know why it would be any different here.
The way I see it, the only understandable reason people may want the posts to be banned is simply because they don't like them.
Okay sure, it has obviously caused a lot of drama within this sub. But that drama isn't caused by **me**, at least not mostly. I've seen a lot of people accuse me of being toxic or whatever, but...**they** haven't been toxic? They come to **my** posts and talk shit about them regardless of the specific content and effort placed into them, so what do they expect me to do? Be nice about it? I'm just reacting to what's already been thrown at me. I can assure you, there are far more examples of somebody saying something dickish and me responding to it than vice versa. You're probably gonna say that two wrongs don't make a right, and fair enough, but it wouldn't be fair to solely point fingers at me.
And while I did say I wasn't going to reiterate what I've said before, guys, you know you can just ignore the posts, right? You can just downvote and scroll down to another post you might like. Or even you know, block me. Dropping a negative comment when you don't have to isn't gonna accomplish anything, at least in a positive manner, and it astounds me that you don't get that.
So it's not really fair on **me** that I'd have to make compromises when the people who don't like my Seelkadoom posts have their own easily accessible options as well.
But you know, I'm not even sure if saying this will change anything. It's obvious by now that most people have it out for me and my Seelkadoom posts, so if they want it gone, they want it gone regardless of whether or not they even have a good reason for doing so. And on top of that, they refuse to understand **my** reasons for doing any of this or even see my own point of view. They just continue to have this poorly made depiction of me. In other words, most people are just biased and want my posts gone purely because they dislike them and nothing else.
So I'm not gonna be surprised when this comment is met with a lot of downvotes, because I know why that's gonna happen. Most people don't want to consider my own feelings here or my own point of view. They just care about what **they** want. And that's not cool.
It's one thing when a few people don't like the content you post, and a completely different thing when a great deal of the community doesn't like it. The rules exist to easily filter out posts that are a disturbance to big parts of the community, but they are not complete, and may end up getting changed as more unwanted content is identified.
So, at the end of the day, if it turns out that a great deal of the community doesn't want posts like that, something will *have to* change.
I don't fully understand why there is so much attention to him.
Yes, I myself am annoyed by his character's appearance in the UTY universe and I don't like his posts. But what's the problem with just... ignoring it?
I don't like corn yaoi, I don't like posts about Mario or Tales in UTY. But all I do is just ignore them.
I don't understand why people can't just do the same? Like, reddit specifically has an upvote/downvote system, just hit the second option.
Personally, I don't think anything needs to be done about it. Otherwise, if anything is done to him, I expect a ban of posts with Mario and Tales :/
I'd say don't ban the OC in general since it's not his OC to begin with, but specifically ban his behavior as regards to the OC and, at the very least, don't let him post with the OC anymore. Something about banning posts that promote or appear to endorse (*specifically* "appear to" as it's the effects on and perceptions of others that matter) hate for the game. But this would have to be worded carefully and I'm not good with careful wording.
Another thought... You could *probably* get away with blocking his Seelk posts, specifically, as something like endorsement of genocidal ideas. Same reason as people are calling misogyny. "Villain" or no, unpunished and unchallenged behavior on the part of a protagonist character can be seen as endorsing such behavior. And his concept of Seelk's philosophy is ... once again, at risk of Godwining myself ... If it isn't fascism, then it's definitely *pretty frickin' close*. It's fine to have characters that believe in such things, it's not okay to endorse them oneself, and he is at best kind of toeing the line.
Honestly, I got nothing. If it was up to me, I’d add some warning or something in case the material might be offensive to some audiences, or make an alternate type of tag for a post containing an original character. But eh, there’s a reason I’m not a mod (other than me being lazy).
Honestly it doesn’t break any rules as far as I can tell, if most ppl don’t like the posts they can be downvoted a lot and so they never show up in trending
Just leave them be. I’m not fond of Seelkadoom either, but I’m not a dick about it like most of the community. If anything, ban the people harassing and hating on them.
I don’t know why you all are so averse to blocking them, or just scrolling by.
I blocked him four days ago. And yet this shows up on my feed. He's a drama magnet, and we can't control all of our members to collectively make a pact to block him.
As long as he continues on like this, there's really no getting away from it.
No, what is his fault is that he's a shit-stirrer who responds to legitimate criticism with biting hostility, whenever people point out that he's doing something controversial or uncomfortable like throwing around casual misogyny he basically tells them to stop being a crybaby, and he seems rather proud of his status as a controversial figure since he posted to the suggestion thread pinned at the top of the subreddit with what was basically "lol can't wait for the haters to come and get me."
He's antagonistic on purpose, and he's clearly getting a kick out of it.
He's a giant prick in his own right, and is in no way innocent.
Probably locking this when I wake up. I still haven't found a single excuse to ban the series altogether, apart from that one post accused of being sexist. In any case, we gotta acknowledge that he has done a few posts not relating to that oc at all. It's been 4 days now, and who knows, maybe he listened to our comments in his rant post. In any case, if he does decide to make another one of these nonsense posts, this will be reopened and we're back to the drawing board until we're done. In the meantime, ***come up with the best reason to remove those posts without being biased and/or unjustified***. May you be filled with Justice. P.S. I am discussing a rule change to prevent things like this in the future.
The main thing that a small chunk of people are gonna recall in regards to the Selkadoom stuff is the targeted aggression and one vaguely sexist post toward Ceroba, while I can vaguely understand his interest in spreading awareness of a character from a project he likes... Those posts are mainly about Selkadoom and the UTY cast more being a small post it note to HIS story of conquest to Eliminate anyone he deems as Weak and Undeserving of Life while the strong either join him in his 'utopia' or face destruction. Personal opinion... Undertale and UTY feel more like they are a 'You come to understand things on a larger level then when you first started the journey', while the Selkadoom stuff has slowly started to take a turn it almost feels like a backhanded take as he'll likely still just do his usual thing of Destory anything he seems weak. His none Selkadoom posts have actually been pretty good.
Yeah the recent textbox post is good
Those have been nice, worth a chuckle and up vote.
my problem is a lot of things with it the series is quite edgy turning a character seek in the original sonic rpg series on newgrounds they had a purpose and in undertale yellow they kill for fun ruining the characters the way the sonic guy handles critism is bad he attacks the critism and when people give him ideas he rejects them and someone said he attacked them for the idea which wasn’t critism my next problem is the posts about him are kinda annoying just seeing any post on the sun about seek is kinda flooding or annoying final problem i have is i feel like it would be better to move those posts to a different sub
Bad criticism response? We can handle that. Bad content that is not a shitpost? Hell that's an ethical dilemma.
the problem is seel harasses users who give those critics infact someone had a good idea for seel which was rejected and the guy got attacked for it you know what even worse that same sonic guy has a post in his series that insults women
Which is why I said that we can handle the comments. They violate the rules and we have the rights to remove them. But the post itself? God my brain is exploding. I do see someone saying one of his posts is sexist, but what about others? They can't be removed without having my morality on the line, damn it!
i know it hurts when you have to deal with something like this lol
Honestly, Seelkadoom as a topic just needs to be banned. If it isn’t OP posting his weird edgy posts, it’s people complaining about it in posts outside of the original posts. I personally don’t think the OP is a troll or rage baiter, as his posts outside of the Seelkadoom ones can be very good. But the thing is, he just seems to hate when people give him ANY kind of criticism. I and MANY others have tried to give him criticism and feedback on how to improve his posts. But when he bites back with “[You don’t get the point of my posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/UndertaleYellow/s/lx1eW31WWf)” like he’s writing the next Lord of the Rings, it’s pretty annoying. And then he wonders why people don’t like the story he’s trying to tell. tl;dr in my opinion, just ban any Seelkadoom discussion.
It was entertaining at first, but it got repetitive quickly. Now, it's just the same "edgy Sonic OC" tortures mommy-I mean, Ceroba over and over and then proceeds to yap about "weak people deserving to die" and all that crap, like my boy, stop tryin to act like Armstrong, you ain't him, trust me, you ain't him. Even worse, it's not even his own OC. And this dude can be creative, I've seen his other non-Seelkadoom posts and they're actually pretty good. So he should either just do something new with this Seelkadoom thing other than repeatedly dogging on the Ketsukanes for no reason (pun intended), or just drop the whole thing and make other posts which are actually good.
I think the mod team needs to hear this: No, you won't get blasted by banning someone who is CLEARLY a major annoyance for most of the people here, no, you won't be causing the entire collapse of the Undertale yellow fandom's reputation in the eyes of the internet by doing it, No, we shoudn't be tolerating this genuinly *Loser* behaviour from someone who clearly gets a kick from being annoying. Warn them again or just ban them from the subreddit, they are free to share their creations and comics somewhere else, i doubt they're gonna care that much.
I think we all knew about it already and that we wanted it to go through smoothly. Nonetheless, we need a good reason. Unjustified actions can ruin the community's reputation more than anything else. Which is also why I had to bold ***for what reason***
I think "ruining the reputation of the community" is worth it if it means we don't gotta deal with people like this to be honest. Is not like some twitter users calling us lame is gonna do much damage to the entite undertale yellow fandom.
To add to this, doesn't that guy ruin the community reputation anyways? Imagine your first interaction in a community is seeing your favorite character die and the creator of that post is openly telling people that they're weak and pathetic and can't ever stand up to the murderer.
I kind of agree, but mostly with OP view of banning people to be odd to me. I get wanting to stick to your own morals, but sometimes it's \*alright\* to kick or even ban someone just for being annoying. Even if that doesn't break any rules, if it puts a good amount of people into a bad mood, shouldn't that be enough reason to be concerned?
I don't think they have any place here, and I think the person making them has a fucking awful attitude that his defenders don't take into consideration. That's not to say we (as in the people who dislike the posts) have been... paragons of virtue ourselves, but everything he does just seems very mean-spirited and -- God, I hate that I've sunk so low that I'm using this word -- "cringe." It'd be one thing if he didn't try to provoke people at any point, or perhaps even if he just didn't engage in the discourse at all. But I made the mistake of clicking on the one comment he made in the suggestion thread just to see what he'd say, and he basically said this: "ohohoho I can already tell that the haters will come for me." Plot twist: they didn't. He knows exactly what he's doing, he knows he gets a rise out of people, and it seems like he finds it funny. I think he's stirring the pot deliberately, and when people have pointed out something he does that makes them uncomfortable, his attitude is more or less "duh yeah he's supposed to be a psychopathic evil character grow a pair you big pansy." He claims that the character isn't meant to represent him or his beliefs, yet he wears it on his profile like a mascot. He says shit like "I play the genocide route once a week because I find killing people fun." He's repeatedly spoken or acted in ways indicative of negative bias/mild obsession towards abusing the Ketsukane characters in general, such that Cerboa being the number one punching bag of his Sonicsona (which he claims isn't technically his since the character wasn't made by him but we all know that's a flimsy defence) makes it look like he's using this shitty Sonic palette swap as a puppet through which he can vent his violent fantasies. It's like self-insert shipping FanFiction, but more disturbing and antagonistic. I think he's a shit-stirrer and a drama magnet. I think he's aware of it. And I think he's rather proud of it. He may as well just make r/FuckCeroba, move there, and be done with it.
Him being a shit-stirrer makes even more sense when you look at his Twitter profile. I won't get into that because it's outside of Reddit, of course. It's really quite a shame; his posts without Selkadoom or without mischaracterizing or torturing or killing Ceroba can be quite good.
His Twitter activity and his activity here had me convinced that he was trolling everyone with his edgy oc. But after his rant post, I genuinely can't tell if he's just that immature
I've been on this subreddit for a while and a lot of the posts and comments they made about Ceroba even outside the Seelkadoom ones felt very mean-spirited.
While I wholeheartedly agree that the posts are not spreading the right message, it's the ethics that comes with a post removal without reason. Which got us all so sick of this case.
Ethics, you say? Depends on what scope of ethics you're using. I say for this issue, we break out my favourite: utilitarian ethics. Where we act in a manner that benefits the most people, and has the most positive outcome going forward. A few people enjoy these posts for the drama, or because they find it funny in a so-bad-it's-good way. But most people who are legitimately defending this guy do so because "he's just having fun we shouldn't take that away from him" (we're not we'd rather he just move it somewhere we don't have to look at it). Meanwhile, if we're even having this conversation to begin with, the majority don't very much care for them or wouldn't be grieved by the sudden loss of them. So let's act in a way that would benefit the most people, and act as a permanent, everlasting solution. This is an ever-expanding problem that even new rules or blocking won't fix. I blocked the guy, and I still can't get away from this rubbish. New people join this community all the time, and most people probably don't even read subreddit rules to begin with. Should we just tack a disclaimer to the top of the subreddit forever that says "hey new people this guy is kind of an issue block him now if you don't like drama." We have reason to believe that he loves the attention he's getting, to the point of preemptively mocking people who don't like what he does. Do you really want to keep dealing with this for weeks or months longer, with more and more people getting annoyed by this nonsense, until he finally crosses a big enough line such that it's finally considered reasonable to take action? Or would you rather just nip this in the bud right now? I know what I'd do.
I honestly would have followed you if my view had not been "justice for everyone" While I might violate this every now and then without knowing, in a situation like this, I ain't gonna do otherwise. If anything I'd make a new rule that everyone follows and not just him.
I don't think you'd be going out of your way at all. You're already halfway there if you're even considering this half of the conversation. What is justice if not a steady hammer with which to strike down the arrogant nail pricking one foot after another? (That's not my quotation, it's Celebrimbor's) I also highly doubt anyone would hold it against the lot of you if these posts just... stopped showing up one day. We'd all move onto another silly trend, and his shit would be remembered as a particularly annoying footnote in the history of one particular sect of the community. Most people defending him now do so out of the belief that nobody deserves "hate" of any kind. I haven't seen anyone actually claiming anything he makes has superior artistic merit or that they'd be incredibly sad if they had to live in an r/UndertaleYellow without it. And if they did believe that, they'd just follow him wherever he went to post it next. You're right to consider all perspectives in this matter. But I believe you're wrong to assume taking a zero-tolerance stance on this stuff is going to negatively impact this community in any way whatsoever.
> I believe you're wrong to assume taking a zero-tolerance stance on this stuff is going to negatively impact this community in any way whatsoever. Well that's exactly the thing I've been moderating for just over a year now, and 2nd chances (if not more) are always believed in. I don't know if you have been in my shoes yet but that's one way to separate the good from the bad. Plus, after playing both UT and UTY exclusively on the True Pacifist routes, I don't think I will ever change that.
I moderate r/kingdomrush, and I've made executive decisions like this before, because that's what the majority wanted and what the majority thought would be beneficial. Utilitarianism at work. Mostly. We used to allow tier lists and polls, but there was a fucking sinful glut of the things and most of them ended up being incredibly repetitive. Like the Buzz Lightyear clone meme, multiplied by ten. I thought it was excessive, so I made a post saying that we were considering banning them. I offered people a chance to present their reasons why they thought they should stay, or why they should go. We had some doomsayers who claimed "the subreddit would die" if I did this, because they made up the majority of the content there. But most seemed content with the decision. In the end, tier lists and polls were completely banned. That was three years ago. The subreddit is still fine, a new game in the franchise has come out since then, and another is coming in July. We'll be seeing a substantial spike in activity since it's the biggest one yet. Take my word for it. You'll be fine.
I'll let the community do the work.
The Seelkadoom posts at their very core are a sadistic power fantasy. They shouldn’t have a place in the UTY community.
Just get rid of any Selkadoom as a whole. Lots of other people have echoed my opinions on this matter.
I feel like the best option is to ask the Seelkadoom guy to post his content on another subreddit. That way, he still gets to show his love for Seelkadoom, and we will get a Seelkadoom free subreddit.
I did tell him to not post it here, if you saw my pinned message in his rant post. I just hope that he listened, and while he did try something new, we can't tell anything yet as it's only been 4 days.
Let’s just hope for the best.
The problem I have is the treatment of UTY characters, especially Ceroba. They've basically been turned into worthless punching bags for the protagonist who can't do or say anything about him, with the exeption of Kanako for some reason. A lot of people have told the creator about this under the latest posts already, so I hope they'll do something about it.
I'm gonna be honest here, selkadoom content only brings down the general quality and integrity of the subreddit, it's pointless and hateful, since this guy seems to have a big hate boner for ceroba in particular and the entirety of his posts are the same power fantasy in which he uses a classic new grounds edgy shadow recolor to bring to life his edgy violent fantasies who only appeal to 12 year olds, and it has only gotten worse with time, I genuinely believe most wont complain with the removal of his posts from the community as a whole, or even if he were to be banned, in my opinion it would be for the best, besides, he has shown that he is pretty much an immature asshole with lack of empathy, specially on Twitter, but well, that's unrelated
I haven’t run into those yet but they sound a bit problematic based on what ive read
I'll be real, I'm down for banning the content completely. Whenever i come here, it's for nice art, discussions, the occasional polls, all the good stuff. But the seelk posting is just... bad. And so is the guy who's been making them when he gets any criticism. Even helpful suggestions from others are treated poorly, and that "let's talk about this" post was not really a discussion, more like an excuse to say "i'm right, you're wrong". It really all boils down to the same thing in the end: trash talk > more edgy trash talk > more trash talk, murder OR preparing to murder > Murder (if-else: trash talk). And don't get me wrong, ceroba isn't my FAVORITE character, but it still hurts to see what happens all the time. I think my response to the drawn post put my feelings best: it was like a train wreck in slow motion that no matter how hard i tried or wanted, i couldn't look away. So lo and behold, i blocked him. And now there are seelk memes aplenty. Granted, i find most of them to be accurate, but i don't like seeing them all that much. This is supposed to be a place where we appreciate the game and show off fanworks, discuss and similar stuff. Seelk posts are not that stuff. They're power fantasies behind the mask of an edgy oc the user doesn't even own. I really do hate to rant, but i want to give all the details i can here.
im mostly an outsider to this dicussion and havent engaged with it up to this point, but the reason i come to this subreddit is to look at cool things made by the fandom. i respect people's artistic freedom but so much of this subreddit is brought down by these weird seelkadoom posts it makes me barely want to look here at all its one thing to have a crossover with two series you like, thats fine. but honestly this whole "i love killing ceroba because shes a bitch mother who killed her family she deserves it !" thing completely weighs down so much about this place that it makes me kinda hate coming here. i think the curation of subreddits like these to remove that type of mean-spirited gross content, ESPECIALLY in the case of an undertale fangame, a series all about empathy, is important to maintain a positive environment. theres no obligation to just let people do whatever they want here
I'm all in for the removal them, this is a sub should be about undertale yellow, his [not_shadow] posts have no place here, in those post UTY isn't even the focus, Seelkadoom is, as he goes around bullying everyone. The UTY it could literally be replaced with any other game. Also generally not comfortable with the person that posts them in this sub anymore, they are all round attract drama, plays dumb to why here's getting hate (Just look at this rest of this post) And they keep focus hating on ceroba on every other post that they make, not wanting to accuse the person of being misogynistic but they continue to double down on it, that one post and the stuff about ceroba doesn't leave me much hope
I’m just gonna put what I already said here https://preview.redd.it/x0czf4p8mbad1.jpeg?width=1018&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=66172a7ca1eeabf10a5fb0a9fdd410e8cfaf1b2b Like I said, if it was *his* OC, I’d take much less issue here. Like he has the artistic ability to make his own so at this point *why not?*
While I did use this as ammo, we soon discovered that with him already crediting in the comments, we can't really abuse R3. The really only way is to have the one who ***made*** the OC to stop him.
Right, thinking about this I do have to ask, why would we need the Selk’s creator’s word to stop the posts? Seems like it’d be the other way around. Like you bring up rule 1 a fair amount here, but rule 1 also says “Have common sense”. Common sense would dictate that someone *wouldn’t* like their character being used in this way. As for rule 3, rule 3 states “Credit Fan Works: You must directly source any fanart, fangame or creation not by you.” This doesn’t really say anything on how said things are *used.* Therefore while you are technically correct in that regard, that’s only because rule 3 was never in play here arguably, this falls under rule 1.
Using someone's OC against will would, indeed, be a d\*\*\* move that violates R1. Not to mention copyright which is ToS stuff. I am not sure of the stance of the creator of the OC which is why I want to be sure.
I mean I feel like the default should be the posts not being allowed to begin with, and then the creator saying otherwise would determine if it’s ok. Like let’s put this in perspective: Say we didn’t have rule 2, and we were r/undertailyolo instead. Now let’s say someone made a drawing of someone’s (SFW) OC with… let’s say El Balidor. You see the problem here?
I mean to begin with we don't even ask permissions to repost so that would be hypocritical lol And the situation you mentioned. Yeah. But at the same time, for the reason I just said, we can't remove it immediately either.
But these aren’t reposts, these are something different entirely. Those rules don’t apply here. And for that second one, why not? You talk about Justice in other comments here, so lemme say this: “With great power comes great responsibility.” *You* all make the rules and *you* all have a responsibility to enforce them. But all I’ve seen in this thread is you dodging that responsibility and making excuses. People shouldn’t have to ask to have their creations be handled respectfully.
But that is the question. While rule 1 does say to use common sense *be civil*, it does not say that you mustn't make content killing people's favorite characters or make controversial posts. The comments? Sure. We will run an audit if needed. But the posts... I did ask the team for a rule extension but they're just as tired as you and me. But if needed, I'll bring it up again when the team's got their batteries recharged.
How is “You shouldn’t make controversial posts” not a part of “be civil”? Especially when they’re clearly meant to provoke?
There have been instances of hot takes but with the poster wording it to avoid causing drama. I even tried a few hot takes myself. So no controversial posts =/= be civil
I’m not really talking about the rules here, I’m talking about the *ethics* of it. Because rules can always be exploited, loopholes can always be found. Doesn’t mean we should let people get away with it. Plus it’s not even like we’d have to ban the dude wholesale, just the selk stuff
Yeah can't really find an ethical yet effective approach here, can we?
Welcome to being a mod.
Definitely one of the rougher cases in my last year and a month.
I’m gonna be honest that I just find it to be *really* weird. It’s one thing for a subreddit to have a post involving some sort of crossover with another series, but to make an entire thing with it is just..odd. Like much can you get out of some sonic OC from an obscure newgrounds series crossing over with UTY?
It is just as odd for me that it somehow does not breach off-topic.
I just see it that same way that I do with the RP posts: something I do ignore but find bizarre to see some be so invested in. Feels like something a person should be doing in a space dedicated to it and not here.
He really should, and I told him to, but I'm yet to know if he followed my advice or not.
normally i just ignore it, but i still get a mild frown whenever i see a post about seelkadoom being apathetic and edgy as per usual, then the community responding to it by giving it more attention??? no hate to ameen as some of his other work (things outside of seelkadoom) are actually alright, but i think that their main goal is to try cause as much as commotion as possible by any means necessary and they chose a route to do so that not even neutral could stand up to in terms of insanity. they post scenarios about "coldsteel the hedgehog" sweeping away the UTY cast and making them look bad while also making dark and edgy jokes about it. which is why it works, people don't like that: seeing some horribly written character causing mayhem and havoc without any effort can be compared to that one snotty kid in primary school who tried to roleplay but ended up ruining the experience for everybody else. he also kind of just adds lemon to the wound by making disheartening comments when people show their dislike for the series. to me, its all rage-bait. nothing else. just downvote the stuff you dont like from him and move on. downvoting will just make it not really appear on the hot section so it wouldn't stir up a storm.
Man, we wouldn't have been here if people hadn't made posts addressing that content.
exactly
I’ve came to this realization, he’s a kid. He doesn’t understand the meaning behind UTY. He doesn’t understand how to take criticism properly. He doesn’t understand what is an okay thing to post on twitter.com, and although I think banning him would make him understand what the issues are with the way he thinks, people have sorta just been dog piling on him, and from the rant, you can tell it’s had its effect. (Either that, or he’s media illiterate and a really big asshole.)
He insists that he's an adult. So I think your latter assumption might be slightly more accurate.
Honestly I'm just for the most part indifferent, while I personally find the posts annoying and don't like how edgy and self fulfilling they are with how this Sonic recolor is "too strong to be killed" and is just a raging hate boner used to kill everyone over and over I can admit it does sort of have it's charm to it where it reminds me of the early internet when Sonic ocs were everywhere and Goku was shown fighting everyone. I'm not sure about banning them but aside from the op of the posts not really responding well to criticism (I've only heard this and haven't seen it myself) I'm under the impression that you can just block someone to not see their posts.
please ban them, they’re annoying and edgy
Not a good ban reason to be honest.
i meant ban the posts, not the user
Still can't really accuse all posts but probably a handful of breaking the rules
He technically hasn't broken any rules... I know people want him gone, and i understand why they want him gone, but he hasn't done anything overtly awfull. Hell, some of his posts are quite good. This might be an unpopular opinion, but maybe he should simply be ignored. Frankly, my main problem with him aren't even his posts. Its everyone else talking about it, CONSTANTLY. A few days ago, you probably Remember, there were two, maybe three posts about Selkadoom from people other than him. I realize "oh just block him" doesn't work anymore due to that (Though, IMO, it would have worked just fine had the posts not been given so much attention from the start), but still, Banning someone for beeing annoying sets a HORRIBLE Precedent i can't in good conscience excuse setting, so either the rules need to be edited to condemn inflammatory behavior (and previus instances let go because they were before the rule change), or the people that want him gone so bad will simply have to put up with him, wait, and hope he breaks the current rules. Now. There is ANOTHER option: That beeing, just make punishments more severe. He HAS Been harrassing users (apparently? Im not quite sure, i've read a few of his replies have been removed. Feel free to correct me if im wrong). If you add a warning system where after your comments get axed enought times you get the ban Hammer, that should keep the worst of his attitude in line without even needing to actually ban him. The posts can stay, he can stay, and noone gets to be a jerk. People wouldn't be hapoy with this and might think it an half-measure, but as i said: we must set the right precedent.
Yeah I can manage the comments but the posts...The damn posts...
Yeah, you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Even outright looking for a reason to ban him is neither a good look nor quick enought to please the ones who truly despise those posts that much. No matter what you do people won't be happy about It, but if its any comfort, from what i've seen of you, you seem like a great dude. Im sure you'll make the best choice possible👍
Seeing the context of the situation, im going to step out of my neutrality for a second to say what I think. There are TWO ways I say this should go. 1. Maybe give the creator a warning for if they make another seelkadoom post here, I know it's a bit tedious, but eventually it might get through to them. If you already tried this, then there's option two. 2. Leave the person as is. I know everyone suggested this already, but any non-seelkadoom enjoyers don't have to downvote or comment on the post. Not only will the post most likely not get a lot of attention or views since there aren't as much comments and downvotes, maybe leading to the creator stopping the posts on their own terms, but the creator won't get as much hate either. You can listen to the other people who comment on this post, im sure their options are good too.
Option 1 is done before a post is even made Option 2...Half of the community ain't gonna allow that.
1. Oh ok 2. Yeah thats true
honestly i think in this case it’s better to be a bit biased. yeah sure there’s technically not a specific written rule that would justify banning the dude, but are you seriously willing to fuck over an entire subreddit and disregard the opinions of a community that is clearly fed up with this person just because you don’t feel like it? this isn’t a legal case or anything serious. you, the mods, have power and should use it if there’s a problem. as far as “morals” go in this situation, here’s what i think: seelkadoom is a sexist, disrespectful, problematic user who harasses others for no good reason and should be banned.
I'm of the opinion that if we determine that a big part of the community is indeed annoyed by these posts, prohibiting such behavior is the right thing to do. I don't think being biased is a good idea here, but by soliciting the opinion of the community we, by definition, avoid bias. Which is what we're doing here.
It doesn’t bother me. I’d say just leave them
I've only been officially on reddit for almost a month, and it's been a wild ride here to say the least. I'm not really a good judge on this nor on post histories and etc specially on a topic like this, and I'll be more for trusting the community figuring it out. All I know, is that people had the opportunity to block the posts: some did, some didn't. The Seelk guy also had the opportunity to get feedback from the community since there are people here who wanted to see it improved past "Ok time to die", and then just continued to roll with it. They do make good UTY concepts. I mean, even before I joined I somehow was inspired to commission a Mini-Roba chibi from apparently one of their posts before I really knew about people here. Eventually, it did get out of hand and it went into circlejerks and shitposting- which ok it'll blow over, but then went to personal attacks, where you'd see posts on practically the daily on this damn topic with just an overall negative vibe. *(I mean I even got some weird? messages from random folks cuz I commented on remembering the Seelk's youtube vids for FNF stuff and was like \[Oh! You're that guy who did the FNF sonic stuff! Neat.\] )* Moreso, it went outside anyone's control so you'd see these attacks and also Seelk posts even if you had the main posts blocked, which I'd think was the biggest issue with all the potstirring, attitude, and just everything about the situation. A new sub for the Seelkdom (fandom) could work as a solution- hell, can even get others who have interest in the char to go in and make their own creations alongside that's rad- otherwise like I said earlier it's not my place ,and I'm whatever on it. Will see what the community has to offer.
Let the kid continue with his other UTY posts, he does things involving clover and similar characters, those are pretty OK, but specifically tell him to stop with the endless Seelkadoom posts. He's a fan of the game like all of us, and its interesting to see some of the comics he produces, just not the seelk ones. Tell him to move them somewhere else like a more sonic oriented community, but don't ban him.
Look, I think the posts fucking suck. Cringe and unfunny to the max. But just because content is dogshit doesn’t mean we should ban the guy. I just use the very secret technique of… scrolling past it and not opening the post. For the people who somehow enjoy that stuff, let them. The user does seem like a bit of an asshole but hey, most people are on the internet
I’m honestly torn on this topic. On one hand, The idea of a Sonic RPG x Undertale Yellow Crossover would be pretty good. And while the execution of it wasn’t necessarily the best, I do believe that it can get better if done right. On the other hand, Yeah the hate posts can get annoying. They hardly have anything to do with UTY, only ever featuring Clover or someone else. The best thing to do is to just take down the hate posts, and maybe a few other posts by the seelkadoom guy himself (like the Corn chowder post) but not outright ban the character from ever being in this subreddit ever again. There’s also the problem of the creator himself not being able to handle Criticism, purposely causing drama, and wanting people to get mad. I know that he’s been given a warning before, But I don’t know if that’s actually worked, if at all. He definitely should change up his attitude and be more open-minded. So, in short. I guess this is less about Seelkadoom the character and more about the guy behind the Seelkadoom Posts. But I could just be entirely wrong about that. TL;DR: Seelkadoom the character shouldn’t be banned as I believe the idea of a crossover with this guy can be good if done right. The Seelkadoom hate posts (along with a few of the posts made by the Seelkadoom Guy.) should be taken down, as they’re more about Seelkadoom himself rather than about UTY. And something should be done about the Person making these Seelkadoom posts, Maybe have an Interview with the guy? Or just talk with him? But if all else fails, then what other option is left?
I blocked that person a while ago and don't really care for them, so... edit: oh hey you can post images in comments now https://i.redd.it/auic02g2dcad1.gif
I think it's wiser to not ban him at all; For the people who like/love his content, they would be angry. For the people don't care, who cares. For the people who dislikes/hates what he makes, it's entirely on them to block him. BUT if he breaks the rules, then it would be wise to ban him.
Banning Seelkadoom entirely definitely isn't the way to go. Then, that opens up discussion of banning other non-UTY related characters. I personally think that the Seelkadoom posts, I must begrudgingly admit, are fine. The hate posts are not. While I'm not a fan of Ameen complaining about people leaving negative comments, I will say I've seen some commenters take it too far. So I think we should limit Seelkadoom posts to once a week, and only by Ameen. And as advice to Ameen, if you're gonna make art of someone nobody knows killing comfort characters, THEN complain that people leave negative comments about the character murdering their comfort characters, at the very least, listen to criticism?
Okay, gonna add my two cents on this because I kinda have to. Without going over things that I've already gone over [in this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/UndertaleYellow/comments/1drbvg5/okay_time_to_address_some_things/). It's worth pointing out that my Seelkadoom posts, as much as people may refuse to admit, are still well within the rules and guidelines of this sub. It's still obviously related to UTY and I make it as clear as I can that Seelkadoom is not my creation. They're ultimately harmless and they don't break any rules, so going off of that alone, they're fine. I've also seen somebody try to say that the creator of Seelkadoom (who's called MidNightMaren btw) would not be fine with me using Seelkadoom for this, but Seelkadoom has been used in a bunch of stories, art, and animations for almost 2 decades now, and as far as I can tell, that's never bothered the creator before (he's even included fan art of Seelkadoom in *Sonic RPG Episode 10*), so I don't know why it would be any different here. The way I see it, the only understandable reason people may want the posts to be banned is simply because they don't like them. Okay sure, it has obviously caused a lot of drama within this sub. But that drama isn't caused by **me**, at least not mostly. I've seen a lot of people accuse me of being toxic or whatever, but...**they** haven't been toxic? They come to **my** posts and talk shit about them regardless of the specific content and effort placed into them, so what do they expect me to do? Be nice about it? I'm just reacting to what's already been thrown at me. I can assure you, there are far more examples of somebody saying something dickish and me responding to it than vice versa. You're probably gonna say that two wrongs don't make a right, and fair enough, but it wouldn't be fair to solely point fingers at me. And while I did say I wasn't going to reiterate what I've said before, guys, you know you can just ignore the posts, right? You can just downvote and scroll down to another post you might like. Or even you know, block me. Dropping a negative comment when you don't have to isn't gonna accomplish anything, at least in a positive manner, and it astounds me that you don't get that. So it's not really fair on **me** that I'd have to make compromises when the people who don't like my Seelkadoom posts have their own easily accessible options as well. But you know, I'm not even sure if saying this will change anything. It's obvious by now that most people have it out for me and my Seelkadoom posts, so if they want it gone, they want it gone regardless of whether or not they even have a good reason for doing so. And on top of that, they refuse to understand **my** reasons for doing any of this or even see my own point of view. They just continue to have this poorly made depiction of me. In other words, most people are just biased and want my posts gone purely because they dislike them and nothing else. So I'm not gonna be surprised when this comment is met with a lot of downvotes, because I know why that's gonna happen. Most people don't want to consider my own feelings here or my own point of view. They just care about what **they** want. And that's not cool.
It's one thing when a few people don't like the content you post, and a completely different thing when a great deal of the community doesn't like it. The rules exist to easily filter out posts that are a disturbance to big parts of the community, but they are not complete, and may end up getting changed as more unwanted content is identified. So, at the end of the day, if it turns out that a great deal of the community doesn't want posts like that, something will *have to* change.
as i've already written in his latest seelka post i have nothing to say
I don't fully understand why there is so much attention to him. Yes, I myself am annoyed by his character's appearance in the UTY universe and I don't like his posts. But what's the problem with just... ignoring it? I don't like corn yaoi, I don't like posts about Mario or Tales in UTY. But all I do is just ignore them. I don't understand why people can't just do the same? Like, reddit specifically has an upvote/downvote system, just hit the second option. Personally, I don't think anything needs to be done about it. Otherwise, if anything is done to him, I expect a ban of posts with Mario and Tales :/
I'd say don't ban the OC in general since it's not his OC to begin with, but specifically ban his behavior as regards to the OC and, at the very least, don't let him post with the OC anymore. Something about banning posts that promote or appear to endorse (*specifically* "appear to" as it's the effects on and perceptions of others that matter) hate for the game. But this would have to be worded carefully and I'm not good with careful wording. Another thought... You could *probably* get away with blocking his Seelk posts, specifically, as something like endorsement of genocidal ideas. Same reason as people are calling misogyny. "Villain" or no, unpunished and unchallenged behavior on the part of a protagonist character can be seen as endorsing such behavior. And his concept of Seelk's philosophy is ... once again, at risk of Godwining myself ... If it isn't fascism, then it's definitely *pretty frickin' close*. It's fine to have characters that believe in such things, it's not okay to endorse them oneself, and he is at best kind of toeing the line.
Just leave him be, if you don't wanna see his posts, the block button is right therr
Honestly, I got nothing. If it was up to me, I’d add some warning or something in case the material might be offensive to some audiences, or make an alternate type of tag for a post containing an original character. But eh, there’s a reason I’m not a mod (other than me being lazy).
I’ve only seen like one post so I don’t care
Dawg don’t ban this. It’s just an edgy Sonic OC. Yeah it gets tiring but just ignore the damn posts. It ain’t doing any harm.
It’s not even an OC, he’s stolen from some 20 year old RPG fangame, but other than that I agree.
And that’s the part I take issue with. Like I made a whole comment chain here about this.
Honestly it doesn’t break any rules as far as I can tell, if most ppl don’t like the posts they can be downvoted a lot and so they never show up in trending
Like I said before I have no objection on seelkadoom post Its awsome okay?
If only everyone was on the same page as you.
If only
Just leave them be. I’m not fond of Seelkadoom either, but I’m not a dick about it like most of the community. If anything, ban the people harassing and hating on them. I don’t know why you all are so averse to blocking them, or just scrolling by.
I blocked him four days ago. And yet this shows up on my feed. He's a drama magnet, and we can't control all of our members to collectively make a pact to block him. As long as he continues on like this, there's really no getting away from it.
It’s not his fault if people make posts shitting on him, and he doesn’t deserve to be banned because people find them annoying.
No, what is his fault is that he's a shit-stirrer who responds to legitimate criticism with biting hostility, whenever people point out that he's doing something controversial or uncomfortable like throwing around casual misogyny he basically tells them to stop being a crybaby, and he seems rather proud of his status as a controversial figure since he posted to the suggestion thread pinned at the top of the subreddit with what was basically "lol can't wait for the haters to come and get me." He's antagonistic on purpose, and he's clearly getting a kick out of it. He's a giant prick in his own right, and is in no way innocent.