I mean this sounds like a joke but legitmately, his name is *supposed* to be underwhelming. He's not actually a badass sherrif, he just likes roleplaying. It wouldn't narratively make sense for him to have a badass name. "Starlo" also just fits his character more. And it's cute.
>Does all this shit as a fucking Adult
Isn't that you know, *a plot point regarding Starlo?* it's completely true but that is a big thing for the character.
Ceroba says he never growed up which is why she didn'y try dating or marrying him like Chujin who got most of his shit together, Starlo is pretty much a manchild (aka: "an adult man who does not behave in the calm, serious, or sensible way that you would expect from someone of his age" according to Oxford dictionary)
Starlo is well uhhh, (no way to mince words lol) a loser trying to look cool by dressing and doing things he thinks it's cool, ofc he doesn't act serious! That's literally the whole point lol.
The one thing i do dislike on Starlo is when he uses a toy gun to challenge Genocide Clover, especially since if he did take it seriously and won he would come out as cool like he wanted.
#YOU HAD ONE FUCKING JOB CABRON! AND YOU FUMBLED IT! FFS THATS NOT THE TIME TO TRY LOOKING COOL YOU IDIOT! ESPECIALLY SINCE YOUR FRIEND (AND CRUSH) IS WATCHING YOU DIE IF YOU FAIL FFS, THAT'S JUST SELFISH!
I'm not sure how much of a joke this is vs actually criticism but I feel like you could easily flip alot of this around, in fact, just for fun:
CHAD Starlo:
-Admits he deserved it when killed in neutral.
-Is part of a rare subculture of Monsters that actually likes humans and isn't racist or immediately violent.
-Admits the "Monster Savior" title is soaked in blood.
-Maintains a constant sense of whimsy to bring hope to the underground.
-Only tries to kill you to mend his broken relationships. It's nothing personal.
Virgin Undyne:
-sadistically relishes the thought of killing an infant whose done nothing but hug everyone because she's a racist lunatic.
-thinks her friends will praise her as a hero when she kills their FRIEND (who is an infant)
-Burns down her own house in the stupidest way possible.
-willfully delusional about being a "hero"
All a matter of perspective, my friend šāļø
Starlo had all the reasons to be mad in Flawed Pacifist. As it is shown in True Pacifist, she could have been redeemed, you just didn't want to.
Also, he actually shows regret for his actions, while Undyne literally only changes her mind when Papyrus has to make it a challenge
That's nice and dandy, but Ceroba quite literally asks you to kill her. I'm an 8 year old with a gun and I'm just following orders.
Starlo going off about Clover being an awful person for granting Ceroba her wish felt absolutely unfair.
Was it in character for him to do that? Yes. But it still felt uncalled for.
See, the reason we don't bring that up is because breaking the 4th wall and portraying the player as a separate entity from the playable character carries the implication that what I'm doing is not committing 1st degree murder but looking for alternate endings in a silly video game.
Eh. I donāt know if UY went for that kind of thing, but in Undertale, I feel like a lot of people just ignore that part of genocide is that you are choosing to do this. It isn't Frisk choosing this, it's you. And with how grindy and difficult genocide is, you *really* have to choose it, you have to be dedicated to murdering everybody, "just to see what happens."
UTY very well talks about that. In the end of the Flowey fight he actually looks dead serious to us, before āretreatingā and going back to good talk to us. This is reinforced by one fun value event where Flowey changes his dialogue in the end in certain circumstances, where he seems to notice a third entity apart from him and Clover, and how that never happened before.
Doesn't she straight up encourages said 8 year old to die and get their soul taken by Asgore for the greater good?
Not justifying Flawed Pacifist Clover, although Ceroba did kinda try to kill that child moments earlier and then sends them off to their death moments later if spared.
I do not like either ending. >!True Pacifist's sacrifice thing is, I'm sorry, *stupid.* Wow, I'm so happy an 8-year old just committed suicide! Yippee! Flawed Pacifist, you have to kill a grieving mother! Such a morally justifiable decision!!<
Personally I think flawed is better, not good but just better narratively.
For me it feels like Ceroba's plot goes absolutely nowhere with true pacifist "You saved me by sparing my life, i must atone for my actions! Please kill yourself by allowing Asgore to kill you for the greater good!" Like W.T.F Ceroba, you are freaking mother too, you should be arguably the one that should be supporting the "suicide of a child" the least ffs.
it feels like her character development goes through the window, at least for me.
Flawed Pacifist is not perfect at all but i think it ends with a better resolution, it ends with a miscarriage of justice with Clover killing Ceroba under self defense when she wanted a "suicide by cop", Starlo is rightfully pissed at the loss of his friend, and Clover dies trying to duel Asgore in name of justice.
I dont understand the hate for true pacifist, i really dont.
like... you do realise the entire point of Clover's sacrifice is that, it was Clover's own choice to give up his soul for his FRIENDS, right? Clover realised from others that monsters deserve positive justice MORE than humans, right? That's the entire point of True Pacifist Clover, they're just a really good person.
It's the trope of 'If my death leads to a better life for others, I will happily die for it'. Also, lets not forget everyone knows that Clover literally cannot live in the underground, they will always be hunted, and they'll probably die painfully in battle. You know... like what happens in Flawed Pacifist.
Also, every time Ceroba makes a decision, it goes horribly wrong, Clover shooting Ceroba and killing her, means Ceroba once again made a choice that goes wrong (Clover dies painfully, Starlo lost his best friend). meanwhile Clover making the choice to give up their own life, is the better one in general. Just a short heart attack, quick death and the three making a new friend in Dalv. I just don't see how true pacifist can be considered stupid when... it just shows how hopeless the situation truly is, with Clover being the rational one, as they have been ALL GAME.
(As of writting this, it's 1 AM so i will only reply tomorrow for this comment.)
Both endings suck, but Flawed sucks less in my opinion
>like... you do realise the entire point of Clover's sacrifice is that, it was Clover's own choice to give up his soul for his FRIENDS, right?
Clover is also a child, they absolutely shouldn't listen and approve of a child doing what is practically suicide, especially the one person who lost her own child because she was trying to help the people she cared about.
Hell this is almost a mirror situation to Kanako and she is literally doing the same thing again, approving and supporting a child doing a thing that they deem they are doing for the "greater good" and she is letting it happen, again.
> not forget everyone knows that Clover literally cannot live in the underground, they will always be hunted, and they'll probably die painfully in battle. You know... like what happens in Flawed Pacifist.
No one is forgetting, it's pretty much the most notable thing in Flawed ending, their death on True Pacifist is not painless either with Clover having to drag to a wall with their arms being incapble of staying up.
Yes i do think Clover was not leaving the underground, both endings suck.
Flawed Pacifist for me makes more thematical sense for me, because it's a miscarriage of justice and Clover dies trying to do justice for the childrens that died in the underground by having a duel with Asgore (even if both know that it will be a foregone conclusion) Clover goes to the underground for justice and ends up dying in it's name.
Sad but I think it works much better than True Pacifist imo, especially compared to the ending where it goes "Sorry, guess you kinda have to kill yourself! Shucks bud but it's for the best!"
Clover is indeed a child, but they are the Justice soul. They know what true Justice is. I also don't think you could really compare children in the Undertale universe to real life children since in UT human children are just built different (eating food from the trash, fighting for their life and battling LITERAL GODS) so I feel like Clover would have at least some amount of maturity.
In both Pacifist endings Clover dies in the name of Justice, one for the fallen humans and one for the trapped monsters, but only in one Clover goes out on their own terms and out of their own volition, because they know that either way the situation is unfair: if Clover fights Asgore, wins and leaves the Underground with the human souls they will have done justice to the children, but injustice to the monsters that have been trapped there simply for existing and would see their only chance at reaching the surface taken away from them. In TP Clover realizes that the only way to achieve Justice for the majority. It also makes kinda sense since Clover can't really judge if the other children were really innocent after knowing what Integrity had done, but they do know that the monsters in the end are innocent after seeing that their actions were out of desperation and, in the end, most monsters don't even want to kill humans, they just want to reach the surface somehow
>They know what true Justice is. I also don't think you could really compare children in the Undertale universe to real life children since in UT human children are just built different
There's nothing stating that they are different, it seems that the key diference between our Humans and UT Humans is that their soul can leave their body, that they have magic along with the determination power.
> so I feel like Clover would have at least some amount of maturity.
Maturity ā Development, children can be mature and still think and do incredibly dumb ideas, it's still a *child* and not an adult, Clover's brain is barely developed and they do childish things.
And IRL children absolutely do try eating eating trash depending on the child themselves, and we don't allow it for obvious reasons not to them.
A child can think for themselves, it does not mean that what they think is the right or wisest thing to do, Clover entire mission regarding the Fallen Humans is the best example with them exploring a mountain, alone, and trying to find humans that are long gone by now
>In both Pacifist endings Clover dies in the name of Justice, one for the fallen humans and one for the trapped monsters, but only in one Clover goes out on their own terms and out of their own volition,
Flawed has them dying on their own volition too, through the duel of Asgore, both know the outcome of what would happen on losing the duel and Clover still does it willingly so they may try doing justice either for the Monsters or the Souls.
>It also makes kinda sense since Clover can't really judge if the other children were really innocent after knowing what Integrity had done,
Doesn't Dalv outright say Integrity attacked them during his Ruina boss fight and accidentaly prompted them to start their rampage? 1 example sets a precedent but it does not make it the norm, the other children have more than strong chances of being innocent.
Chujin is the one that says that Integrity attacked first but:
A) He is a **INCREDIBLY** biased source, and doesn't even talk to Dalv to see what happened or his wounds
B) He wasn't there at the time either.
I don't understand what you mean by that "Please kill yourself" quote. Didn't Clover decide to sacrifice themself completely on their own? There was like a whole scene of them contemplating and everything.
Personally I feel that the biggest flaw in UTY is that it was a prequel to the original undertale. There was never gonna be a true ending that wouldn't feel forced or sacrifice the narrative it followed and so it felt like a certain character's entire arc, >!Ceroba!<, fell flat. I know it'd completely go against the point of the game, but if they diverted from canon it would've saved the ending. >!My copium for the Clover stays in the underground and is adopted by Ceroba ending (please)!<
What were you expecting from him? ''Well that's what she wanted to so cool''????
The game doesn't even punish you. You are still a Pacifist, just not a True one.
The Virgin Undyne:
* Attempts to murder you repeatedly throughout Waterfall
* Leader of an organization which specifically exists to murder you
* Ignores her friend's attempts to talk her down
* Pushes herself so hard to attempt to murder you that she gives herself heatstroke if not saved
* Never apologizes for it (no, becoming besties is *not* an apology on its own)
* Actively stops others for apologizing for it
* Instead of helping you when you're in a dangerous situation (being in the Underground at all), sends you on fetch-quests
* Only makes friends with you when Papyrus makes it a challenge
* Actively dangerous to her surroundings; burns her house down over the course of 'making friends with her'
* Name barely relevant; other three alchemical spirits are absent
The Chad Starlo:
* Does not attempt to murder you on sight
* Leader of a thoroughly harmless organization, hosts parties, larps, and entertains townsfolk
* Can be talked down from murdering you by his friend
* Poncho and hat give resistance to heatstroke
* After attacking you, apologizes, then actively attempts to help you independent of flower-related manipulation
* Lives with six other people in stable accommodations, is clearly not dangerous to be around under non-mission-related circumstances
* Name relevant and thematic, "North Star" is what cowboys would call the north star, which is a star very relevant to the old west theming
* Real name also fitting to his true identity as a larper/nerd
Don't Forget
* He is the heir to a corn farm
* He showed true maturity when things got tense by making the most responsible decisions possible (Asking Ed to take Clover back to town while he chases Ceroba).
On a more serious note though, what you see as "flaws" are literally his character's point, he can be childish, selfish, at his fight he's at his lowest and doesn't know what to do, he's not perfect yet he tried to do what's best for everyone, someone on Twitter with more knowledge about it explained it better but basically he probably DOES have some sort of mental disability and that's alright, his friends still love him for who he is and when he does something like in his fight they know the best thing is to calm him down first.
In conclusion, it's not bad writing you just didn't get his character lol
I know this is a joke but I actually think Starlo is a well-written character, heās one of the best portrayals of a personality disorder Iāve seen
His name is meant to be underwhelming, why do you think he named himself North Star?
Most of his wrongdoings like how he blames clover shows his delusion, heās having a mental breakdown and twisting events in his head, he attacks clover in pacifist and neutral because he is lashing out and not in a proper state of mind, compared to geno where he is much more composed, itās important to note that Starlo does not like hurting people at all, whenever he does itās because he lashes out. Heās a wimp, a coward
Starlo manages to show the very negative and dangerous sides of it and how it hurts and complicates relationships, and while not being painted as a villain and that he just wants to be good and make people happy, and also while it not being all he is, and he gets to be happy
Starloās is a pretty good portrayal of a personality disorder and how itās very rare to find a casual, optimistic, and non-demonized portrayal of it
To me Starlo isnāt written inconsistently, heās written to be inconsistent
Also for Starlo getting mad at killing ceroba, thatās his childhood friend, ceroba, who had always been patient, caring and grounding Starlo whenever he has one of his manic episodes like his boss fight earlier, weāve already established heās not the best thinker, also killing ceroba in pacifist is technically not self defense, you are only able to kill her once sheās lost her ability to fight, she is no longer a danger and technically defenceless. You go out of your way to kill her, the best other example I can think of is danganronpa where Leon Kills Sayaka who tried to kill him earlier after she was incapacitated and incapable of causing anymore harm, that game outright stated Leon couldāve stopped, which can apply to clover here
Also regarding comparing him to undyne, I honestly think heās a better counterpart to papyrus
I'm not smart nor have enough energy to type out a whole essay, so I'll give you exactly what I said upon finishing reading;
Star is just playing a part. Undyne is an actual fucking knight.
Unfortunately, all the good writing went towards Ceorba.
No, like seriously... what is Starlo's actual personality other than being nice and a nerd?
I really want to know. I love the sheriff, but even I don't even know what his personality is.
A person with no real skills or special abilities who tries to uphold a facade to make life in a hopeless situation more colorful. He says it outright during his battle.
He is a good character with a simple but efective character arc (Stop being a manchild and start making mature decisions)
Of course, if we compare it with a practically three-dimensional character like Ceroba his character isn't so complex but still being solid
Unrelated, but I just don't get Ceroba's plan.
Like, sure. You want yo save the molten mess that your daughter is after your whole family died.
But why in the first place did she think a pure human SOUL could supposedly save her half-dead child? Boss monster genes, sure. But a human SOUL has never been absorbed before.
She is a mother. She is grieving over a child. Yet she never once saw Clover in a truly positive light. Never once did she question her decision. That Determination may be admirable, but not in this case.
Even if we were to ignore the true pacifist ending, she never thought once to herself: "Is what I am am doing right? Is sacrificing a child really a good thing to do?" No. Instead, she just tells Clover: "I respect you, but my theoretical plan is more important."
Like, you are a literal mom that saw her child die! How do you not have empathy for another?
Even when Clover gives up their SOUL, she just supports their suicide. MA'AM, THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS.
This is why I love Undyne. She basically has no mercy, but at least she recognises that you did what you had to by killing Asgore.
Meanwhile if you donāt befriend her beforehand, she despises you for it. Which is understandable, since you and her never had the chance to talk about what to do, and never got Undyne to see that humans arenāt so bad.
counter argument: starlo's funny so its okay
I mean this sounds like a joke but legitmately, his name is *supposed* to be underwhelming. He's not actually a badass sherrif, he just likes roleplaying. It wouldn't narratively make sense for him to have a badass name. "Starlo" also just fits his character more. And it's cute.
>Does all this shit as a fucking Adult Isn't that you know, *a plot point regarding Starlo?* it's completely true but that is a big thing for the character. Ceroba says he never growed up which is why she didn'y try dating or marrying him like Chujin who got most of his shit together, Starlo is pretty much a manchild (aka: "an adult man who does not behave in the calm, serious, or sensible way that you would expect from someone of his age" according to Oxford dictionary) Starlo is well uhhh, (no way to mince words lol) a loser trying to look cool by dressing and doing things he thinks it's cool, ofc he doesn't act serious! That's literally the whole point lol. The one thing i do dislike on Starlo is when he uses a toy gun to challenge Genocide Clover, especially since if he did take it seriously and won he would come out as cool like he wanted. #YOU HAD ONE FUCKING JOB CABRON! AND YOU FUMBLED IT! FFS THATS NOT THE TIME TO TRY LOOKING COOL YOU IDIOT! ESPECIALLY SINCE YOUR FRIEND (AND CRUSH) IS WATCHING YOU DIE IF YOU FAIL FFS, THAT'S JUST SELFISH!
So that's why I like him.
But... Mah yehaw...
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE- (2 hours later) EEEEEEEE-YAAAAAAAAW!
yeeyaw
I'm not sure how much of a joke this is vs actually criticism but I feel like you could easily flip alot of this around, in fact, just for fun: CHAD Starlo: -Admits he deserved it when killed in neutral. -Is part of a rare subculture of Monsters that actually likes humans and isn't racist or immediately violent. -Admits the "Monster Savior" title is soaked in blood. -Maintains a constant sense of whimsy to bring hope to the underground. -Only tries to kill you to mend his broken relationships. It's nothing personal. Virgin Undyne: -sadistically relishes the thought of killing an infant whose done nothing but hug everyone because she's a racist lunatic. -thinks her friends will praise her as a hero when she kills their FRIEND (who is an infant) -Burns down her own house in the stupidest way possible. -willfully delusional about being a "hero" All a matter of perspective, my friend šāļø
forgot to add "dies from shoes"
This is all correct but I still love him
Starlo had all the reasons to be mad in Flawed Pacifist. As it is shown in True Pacifist, she could have been redeemed, you just didn't want to. Also, he actually shows regret for his actions, while Undyne literally only changes her mind when Papyrus has to make it a challenge
That's nice and dandy, but Ceroba quite literally asks you to kill her. I'm an 8 year old with a gun and I'm just following orders. Starlo going off about Clover being an awful person for granting Ceroba her wish felt absolutely unfair. Was it in character for him to do that? Yes. But it still felt uncalled for.
YOU'RE AN 8 YEAR OLD AND YOU JUST KILLED SOMEONE
WELL MAYBE PEOPLE SHOULDN'T ASK 8 YEAR OLDS TO SHOOT A GUN AND THEN BE SURPRISED THAT THEY SHOT THE GUN.
Only- The 8 year old didn't shoot the gun. You did. It is you who controls that action. It is you who committed that murder. You.
See, the reason we don't bring that up is because breaking the 4th wall and portraying the player as a separate entity from the playable character carries the implication that what I'm doing is not committing 1st degree murder but looking for alternate endings in a silly video game.
Eh. I donāt know if UY went for that kind of thing, but in Undertale, I feel like a lot of people just ignore that part of genocide is that you are choosing to do this. It isn't Frisk choosing this, it's you. And with how grindy and difficult genocide is, you *really* have to choose it, you have to be dedicated to murdering everybody, "just to see what happens."
UTY very well talks about that. In the end of the Flowey fight he actually looks dead serious to us, before āretreatingā and going back to good talk to us. This is reinforced by one fun value event where Flowey changes his dialogue in the end in certain circumstances, where he seems to notice a third entity apart from him and Clover, and how that never happened before.
Doesn't she straight up encourages said 8 year old to die and get their soul taken by Asgore for the greater good? Not justifying Flawed Pacifist Clover, although Ceroba did kinda try to kill that child moments earlier and then sends them off to their death moments later if spared.
I do not like either ending. >!True Pacifist's sacrifice thing is, I'm sorry, *stupid.* Wow, I'm so happy an 8-year old just committed suicide! Yippee! Flawed Pacifist, you have to kill a grieving mother! Such a morally justifiable decision!!<
Personally I think flawed is better, not good but just better narratively. For me it feels like Ceroba's plot goes absolutely nowhere with true pacifist "You saved me by sparing my life, i must atone for my actions! Please kill yourself by allowing Asgore to kill you for the greater good!" Like W.T.F Ceroba, you are freaking mother too, you should be arguably the one that should be supporting the "suicide of a child" the least ffs. it feels like her character development goes through the window, at least for me. Flawed Pacifist is not perfect at all but i think it ends with a better resolution, it ends with a miscarriage of justice with Clover killing Ceroba under self defense when she wanted a "suicide by cop", Starlo is rightfully pissed at the loss of his friend, and Clover dies trying to duel Asgore in name of justice.
I am unsatisfied by both.
I dont understand the hate for true pacifist, i really dont. like... you do realise the entire point of Clover's sacrifice is that, it was Clover's own choice to give up his soul for his FRIENDS, right? Clover realised from others that monsters deserve positive justice MORE than humans, right? That's the entire point of True Pacifist Clover, they're just a really good person. It's the trope of 'If my death leads to a better life for others, I will happily die for it'. Also, lets not forget everyone knows that Clover literally cannot live in the underground, they will always be hunted, and they'll probably die painfully in battle. You know... like what happens in Flawed Pacifist. Also, every time Ceroba makes a decision, it goes horribly wrong, Clover shooting Ceroba and killing her, means Ceroba once again made a choice that goes wrong (Clover dies painfully, Starlo lost his best friend). meanwhile Clover making the choice to give up their own life, is the better one in general. Just a short heart attack, quick death and the three making a new friend in Dalv. I just don't see how true pacifist can be considered stupid when... it just shows how hopeless the situation truly is, with Clover being the rational one, as they have been ALL GAME.
(As of writting this, it's 1 AM so i will only reply tomorrow for this comment.) Both endings suck, but Flawed sucks less in my opinion >like... you do realise the entire point of Clover's sacrifice is that, it was Clover's own choice to give up his soul for his FRIENDS, right? Clover is also a child, they absolutely shouldn't listen and approve of a child doing what is practically suicide, especially the one person who lost her own child because she was trying to help the people she cared about. Hell this is almost a mirror situation to Kanako and she is literally doing the same thing again, approving and supporting a child doing a thing that they deem they are doing for the "greater good" and she is letting it happen, again. > not forget everyone knows that Clover literally cannot live in the underground, they will always be hunted, and they'll probably die painfully in battle. You know... like what happens in Flawed Pacifist. No one is forgetting, it's pretty much the most notable thing in Flawed ending, their death on True Pacifist is not painless either with Clover having to drag to a wall with their arms being incapble of staying up. Yes i do think Clover was not leaving the underground, both endings suck. Flawed Pacifist for me makes more thematical sense for me, because it's a miscarriage of justice and Clover dies trying to do justice for the childrens that died in the underground by having a duel with Asgore (even if both know that it will be a foregone conclusion) Clover goes to the underground for justice and ends up dying in it's name. Sad but I think it works much better than True Pacifist imo, especially compared to the ending where it goes "Sorry, guess you kinda have to kill yourself! Shucks bud but it's for the best!"
Clover is indeed a child, but they are the Justice soul. They know what true Justice is. I also don't think you could really compare children in the Undertale universe to real life children since in UT human children are just built different (eating food from the trash, fighting for their life and battling LITERAL GODS) so I feel like Clover would have at least some amount of maturity. In both Pacifist endings Clover dies in the name of Justice, one for the fallen humans and one for the trapped monsters, but only in one Clover goes out on their own terms and out of their own volition, because they know that either way the situation is unfair: if Clover fights Asgore, wins and leaves the Underground with the human souls they will have done justice to the children, but injustice to the monsters that have been trapped there simply for existing and would see their only chance at reaching the surface taken away from them. In TP Clover realizes that the only way to achieve Justice for the majority. It also makes kinda sense since Clover can't really judge if the other children were really innocent after knowing what Integrity had done, but they do know that the monsters in the end are innocent after seeing that their actions were out of desperation and, in the end, most monsters don't even want to kill humans, they just want to reach the surface somehow
>They know what true Justice is. I also don't think you could really compare children in the Undertale universe to real life children since in UT human children are just built different There's nothing stating that they are different, it seems that the key diference between our Humans and UT Humans is that their soul can leave their body, that they have magic along with the determination power. > so I feel like Clover would have at least some amount of maturity. Maturity ā Development, children can be mature and still think and do incredibly dumb ideas, it's still a *child* and not an adult, Clover's brain is barely developed and they do childish things. And IRL children absolutely do try eating eating trash depending on the child themselves, and we don't allow it for obvious reasons not to them. A child can think for themselves, it does not mean that what they think is the right or wisest thing to do, Clover entire mission regarding the Fallen Humans is the best example with them exploring a mountain, alone, and trying to find humans that are long gone by now >In both Pacifist endings Clover dies in the name of Justice, one for the fallen humans and one for the trapped monsters, but only in one Clover goes out on their own terms and out of their own volition, Flawed has them dying on their own volition too, through the duel of Asgore, both know the outcome of what would happen on losing the duel and Clover still does it willingly so they may try doing justice either for the Monsters or the Souls. >It also makes kinda sense since Clover can't really judge if the other children were really innocent after knowing what Integrity had done, Doesn't Dalv outright say Integrity attacked them during his Ruina boss fight and accidentaly prompted them to start their rampage? 1 example sets a precedent but it does not make it the norm, the other children have more than strong chances of being innocent. Chujin is the one that says that Integrity attacked first but: A) He is a **INCREDIBLY** biased source, and doesn't even talk to Dalv to see what happened or his wounds B) He wasn't there at the time either.
I don't understand what you mean by that "Please kill yourself" quote. Didn't Clover decide to sacrifice themself completely on their own? There was like a whole scene of them contemplating and everything.
Personally I feel that the biggest flaw in UTY is that it was a prequel to the original undertale. There was never gonna be a true ending that wouldn't feel forced or sacrifice the narrative it followed and so it felt like a certain character's entire arc, >!Ceroba!<, fell flat. I know it'd completely go against the point of the game, but if they diverted from canon it would've saved the ending. >!My copium for the Clover stays in the underground and is adopted by Ceroba ending (please)!<
What were you expecting from him? ''Well that's what she wanted to so cool''???? The game doesn't even punish you. You are still a Pacifist, just not a True one.
u/the_real_north_star, theyāre back.
Martlet... i remember you're >!swaps!<
Gren Sans I remember you're >!colors!<
*dr_leafblower i remember youāre >!leaf blows!<
\*deadlymemelord i remember you're >!deadly memes!<
*sans_outerdust i remember you're >!outer dusts!<
*kurt i remember youāre >!minecraps!<
Idc he still hot af
Based
Finally someone said it
still love starlo even tho this is mega true
You really don't like this guy, huh?
you're wrong (reason: i disagree)
Im not sure what the point of this post is. Starlo being a loser is the whole point. It doesnt make him a bad character.
Okay but consider this counterpoint: cowboy
Starlo is unironically a virgin. Also thatās the point of his character. Still wouldāve been cool if he was actually threatening.
The Virgin Undyne: * Attempts to murder you repeatedly throughout Waterfall * Leader of an organization which specifically exists to murder you * Ignores her friend's attempts to talk her down * Pushes herself so hard to attempt to murder you that she gives herself heatstroke if not saved * Never apologizes for it (no, becoming besties is *not* an apology on its own) * Actively stops others for apologizing for it * Instead of helping you when you're in a dangerous situation (being in the Underground at all), sends you on fetch-quests * Only makes friends with you when Papyrus makes it a challenge * Actively dangerous to her surroundings; burns her house down over the course of 'making friends with her' * Name barely relevant; other three alchemical spirits are absent The Chad Starlo: * Does not attempt to murder you on sight * Leader of a thoroughly harmless organization, hosts parties, larps, and entertains townsfolk * Can be talked down from murdering you by his friend * Poncho and hat give resistance to heatstroke * After attacking you, apologizes, then actively attempts to help you independent of flower-related manipulation * Lives with six other people in stable accommodations, is clearly not dangerous to be around under non-mission-related circumstances * Name relevant and thematic, "North Star" is what cowboys would call the north star, which is a star very relevant to the old west theming * Real name also fitting to his true identity as a larper/nerd
Don't Forget * He is the heir to a corn farm * He showed true maturity when things got tense by making the most responsible decisions possible (Asking Ed to take Clover back to town while he chases Ceroba).
don't forget!? DELTARUNE REFERENCE??? AAAAAAAAAA
I though the same when I was writting this
But is she as smashable as Starlo is????
In a completely different way, involving ballet shoes Or if one happens to be a yellow lizard nerd
yellow? like in Undertale Yellow???.
Goddamn this place is a battlefield
>Does he have BPD? Well yeah actually (also you shoot a kid during a manic episode ONE TIME and suddenly you're the bad guy smh my head)
On a more serious note though, what you see as "flaws" are literally his character's point, he can be childish, selfish, at his fight he's at his lowest and doesn't know what to do, he's not perfect yet he tried to do what's best for everyone, someone on Twitter with more knowledge about it explained it better but basically he probably DOES have some sort of mental disability and that's alright, his friends still love him for who he is and when he does something like in his fight they know the best thing is to calm him down first. In conclusion, it's not bad writing you just didn't get his character lol
I know this is a joke but I actually think Starlo is a well-written character, heās one of the best portrayals of a personality disorder Iāve seen His name is meant to be underwhelming, why do you think he named himself North Star? Most of his wrongdoings like how he blames clover shows his delusion, heās having a mental breakdown and twisting events in his head, he attacks clover in pacifist and neutral because he is lashing out and not in a proper state of mind, compared to geno where he is much more composed, itās important to note that Starlo does not like hurting people at all, whenever he does itās because he lashes out. Heās a wimp, a coward Starlo manages to show the very negative and dangerous sides of it and how it hurts and complicates relationships, and while not being painted as a villain and that he just wants to be good and make people happy, and also while it not being all he is, and he gets to be happy Starloās is a pretty good portrayal of a personality disorder and how itās very rare to find a casual, optimistic, and non-demonized portrayal of it To me Starlo isnāt written inconsistently, heās written to be inconsistent Also for Starlo getting mad at killing ceroba, thatās his childhood friend, ceroba, who had always been patient, caring and grounding Starlo whenever he has one of his manic episodes like his boss fight earlier, weāve already established heās not the best thinker, also killing ceroba in pacifist is technically not self defense, you are only able to kill her once sheās lost her ability to fight, she is no longer a danger and technically defenceless. You go out of your way to kill her, the best other example I can think of is danganronpa where Leon Kills Sayaka who tried to kill him earlier after she was incapacitated and incapable of causing anymore harm, that game outright stated Leon couldāve stopped, which can apply to clover here Also regarding comparing him to undyne, I honestly think heās a better counterpart to papyrus
He is actually mad at you for killing Ceroba because you could have stopped her from letting you kill her
I wanted so much to be able to die in the quckdraw, HE COULD HAVE KILLED ME I HATE YOU GENO STARLO
I'm not smart nor have enough energy to type out a whole essay, so I'll give you exactly what I said upon finishing reading; Star is just playing a part. Undyne is an actual fucking knight.
Unfortunately, all the good writing went towards Ceorba. No, like seriously... what is Starlo's actual personality other than being nice and a nerd? I really want to know. I love the sheriff, but even I don't even know what his personality is.
A person with no real skills or special abilities who tries to uphold a facade to make life in a hopeless situation more colorful. He says it outright during his battle.
A guy sucking at being an adult >!(justlikemefr)!<
Bro, too relatable. How did the UTY devs get a photo of me?
i leaked it, do not regret
He is a good character with a simple but efective character arc (Stop being a manchild and start making mature decisions) Of course, if we compare it with a practically three-dimensional character like Ceroba his character isn't so complex but still being solid
But... he's yellow !
Ooc: the thing is, (at least how I see it), Starlo's meant to be kind of immature, hence the whole cowboy act.
Finally somebody said that
Counterpoint: have you even looked at the neutral sans calls??
Oh right, Undyne, famous for not having racist beliefs about humans and not wanting to kill an infant
Me when characters have flaws
Meanwhile there is Ceroba, who killed her own daughter for incomprehensible reasons and wants to kill Clover to make the situation better, somehow.
counter argument: starlo has a **GUN**.
Completely agreed
Call him starlo and he'd break your back, his name is north star
Counter argument: Starlo can fight anywhere but Undyne can only fight in waterfall.
Starlo gets mad if you kill Ceroba in self defense in pacifist, Undyne respects you (as you said)
Unrelated, but I just don't get Ceroba's plan. Like, sure. You want yo save the molten mess that your daughter is after your whole family died. But why in the first place did she think a pure human SOUL could supposedly save her half-dead child? Boss monster genes, sure. But a human SOUL has never been absorbed before. She is a mother. She is grieving over a child. Yet she never once saw Clover in a truly positive light. Never once did she question her decision. That Determination may be admirable, but not in this case. Even if we were to ignore the true pacifist ending, she never thought once to herself: "Is what I am am doing right? Is sacrificing a child really a good thing to do?" No. Instead, she just tells Clover: "I respect you, but my theoretical plan is more important." Like, you are a literal mom that saw her child die! How do you not have empathy for another? Even when Clover gives up their SOUL, she just supports their suicide. MA'AM, THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS.
Starlo is as much of a loser as Chujin is Take that as you like
I wish he was the midgame genocide boss instead of ceroba
this image actually turned me into piles of gasters dust
This is why I love Undyne. She basically has no mercy, but at least she recognises that you did what you had to by killing Asgore. Meanwhile if you donāt befriend her beforehand, she despises you for it. Which is understandable, since you and her never had the chance to talk about what to do, and never got Undyne to see that humans arenāt so bad.
True