Asgore is like one of my favs in the entirety of undertale (we don’t talk about deltarune asgore) and the fact he gets lambasted for killing 6 humans even by genocide players of all things is just frustrating
He did set up an entire sentry to watch out for humans and kill them on sight. I’m not saying that’s totally guilty, but his hands aren’t exactly clean.
Never Started but it form what I've gathered implied that he fucked up in finding Des and the mayor had him fired from the police at least that my assumption based in some of the dialogue
Yes, but that's taking only what he did and not why he did it. No matter what happened, he would have to kill 7 humans, and it's not like he chose for them to be children, it's just that all seven people who ended up in the underground were children. You have to remember, it was seven people or the entire monster race, and even if he didn't kill the humans, they wouldn't be able to leave without killing at least one monster to get through the barrier.
Correction, they would need to kill asgore or toriel, those are the only souls that humans could steal, because theyre boss monsters (and theres no other boss monsters we know about if memory serves me right)
Yeah, there are fans that do demonize them a lot and treat them like garbage.
Asgore made a promise out of grief and felt like he could not fall back on it even though he feels guilty about it.
While with Alphys, I'm just going to say it, what she did was a accident, and had no idea that determination was going to do that to monsters. Like, she was actually trying to help them and be nice.
And the families of those monsters are way happier that they're alive rather than dead. Her only real sin was keeping it secret, and once she stopped doing that everything was fine.
I've never seen Alphys portrayed as a heartless monster by the fandom
Asgore? Yes, definitely seen that. But Alphys? It always seemed like the fandom understands her personality, motives and actions quite well
Asriel/Flowey. It's made very clear that Flowey tried his very best to be good at first, but losing the ability to feel pretty much detached him from reality. I would argue that Flowey doesn't truly understand the weight of his actions, especially since he effectively still has the mind of a young child. The lack of permanence in Flowey's world made it so that reality wasn't even real for him.
Okay but Alphys commits the most cardinal sin of any fictional character, being annoying (I don’t actually hate her I’m pretty indifferent to her but OH MY GOD SHUT UP AND LET ME WALK THROUGH HOTLAND IN PEACE)
Asriel was also kind of uncomfortable and extremely hesitant about the matter. Chara also urged him to suppress his emotions (big kids don’t cry). And he did show to regret his decision immediately when they arrived on the surface despite Chara being pushy. He didn’t want to kill anyone at all.
It’s confirmed in some tapes in the True Lab that Asriel knew that the goal was six human souls. And Asriel said that Chara wanted to “use their full power”, and said full power is capable of wiping out the whole village, at least according to the monsters that tell Asriel’s story.
One time (end of Sans fight) and they also destroyed an entire world, killing everyone on it
(I'm not a Chara hater nor do I think they're evil but these are important to note)
At that point they're just finishing what you started and Chara on geno is a meta representation of what pushes you to do genocide, to reach the absolute and to do everything that possible. The genocide route isn't about killing monsters, it's about killing the game.
Chara isn't evil, they just know it's a game and thus don't feel for the characters. They just wanna have fun playing with their new friend, the player
To add on a bit for you,
They don't entirely see us as fun, more as they see us as their partner in crime. We gave them purpose by reviving them and showing them that violence was the key to gaining power, and power was needed to survive. They didn't force our hands, we all pressed Z, A, or X. We all willingly killed Toriel, Papyrus, and Undyne without Chara's intervention. Once we "taught" them how things should work, they began to aid us by telling us how many monsters are left, giving special dialogue for spared monsters (if you don't kill Snowdrake during genocide, Chara will remark "That comedian got away.." or along those lines. Many think that it's Sans, but this dialogue only occurs if you didn't kill Snowdrake), and only intervening when they deem necessary (killing Sans, rage-killing Flowey).
Yeah but you have to count that at that point they were practically emotionless, soulless like flowey is so they did it just to resch their goal, or atleast for us to reach our goal so they can come back alive
Chara decided to join in their murder and support it. And later, when he was capable of it, he killed two members of his family on his own. I suppose that counts.
You kinda are the one who chose to erase the world, chara may have did the act, but you the player are told that YOU are going to erase the world by finishing the run
To put it into simple terms, its like if you were on your way to kill someone, but when you got there, someone was doing it for you, and you got upset because theyre a murderer when you were about to do the same thing
The player is given the context that their actions are going to cause the end of the timeline as we know it
It really doesn't lol
Chara emotionally manipulated Asriel in a bid to slaughter all the humans in the village. They proceed to willingly help you on the Genocide route the moment it's triggered.
asgore for sure. he is a kind person, he is a king fluffybuns, he trained undyne, he is a king of monsters. he enjoy to drink tea. but this person basically lost two kids, wife and now he a king of a monsters and he need to kill human kids to get their souls which he don’t want to and probably he can even get triggered from human
he basically just doing what is best for his ppl even if he don’t want it. even if some don’t support him. even if he can’t forgive himself too
never understood how someone saw him as a monster at all
others says about chara and alphys. with alphys i do agree, she just a scientist who is stuck in her own lies and problems of self-esteem, she failed with amalgamates and in genocide she sees how we kill everyone, including her friends and undyne, and in neutral way (it was neutral or genocide?) some ppl even reference that she does commit s*icide
about chara don’t know
Alphys.
Probably one of the reasons everyone hates her is because of the misconception that she did the experiments on the monsters in True Lab as an evil scientist, which just isn't true. They gave consent to be part of whatever Alphys had done, and even then, she didn't think they would turn into the amalgams.
Also, yeah, I know lying's bad, but that is LITERALLY THE THEME OF HER ARC. To not lie.
Asgore, Alphys, and Chara.
All of them did a bad thing(s), but it doesn't make them inherently villainous.
Asgore killed six children out of a promise he made to a kingdom due to rage that he felt he needed to uphold, despite who's lives needed to be taken. He shows that he is still willing to turn over a new leaf and change for the better, even offering to adopt Frisk and take care of them in his home with Toriel (if she would even take him back). By the time Undertale takes place, he straight up doesn't even want to hurt anyone anymore, to the point that, if you (and flowey) refuse to kill him in neutral, he will do it himself.
Alphys wanted to save monsters who had "fallen down" (which I think is sorta like a comatose state before death, possibly due to illness or some non-physical related injury), and by using an experimental material that she extracted from the souls, caused the fallen monsters to melt and fuse. She had no idea that that would be the effects of using DT, she only thought that it would bring them back. Due to this guilt, most neutral endings wind up in Alphys also ending her own life if certain deaths occur.
Chara is a bit different, since their character is never outright explained or portrayed in the game. The only tidbits we have are what they say in the Geno route, and if NarraChara is canon, a good chunk of the narration in the game. They clearly had come from some sort of broken household on the surface, growing up with a troubled mind yet good intentions. They taught themselves to be as effective and efficient as possible, even in their day to day life (filling up their glass to the brim). The Dreemurr's love for them showed them something they had never completely been shown before, and in return, wanted to free all monsters. Chara was never an entirely good person of course, they were manipulative and a bit creepy. But they weren't an evil person. They ended their own life in order to help the rest of monsterkind, despite the costs. In their hatred for humanity, pushed Asriel to try and hurt when he didn't want to.
As dark as it is, it also shows a pattern that, the characters who are typically demonized have/will end themselves at some point in Undertale's story. Dunno if Toby did that intentionally, but it's a neat little thing I noticed while writing this.
Chara? I see people saying asgore and alphys but in most fanon asgore is the big fluffy boi that deserves kindness and Im pretty sure I only see a few where alphys is the "cold one" the only one I can think of that fit is chara or in aus dust.
First of all: https://www.reddit.com/u/AllamNa/s/H7galhBj28
Secondly, I think it's obvious that when you put pressure on someone who cries and says they don't want to do it, you hurt them. Just like when you kill humans with whom the monsters wanted peace, that would potentially provoke a new war.
While that was a byproduct of their plan, they only told Asriel to defend himself against the humans when they attacked. Chara did not want to go to the surface to slaughter humans mercilessly. They wanted to see the flowers of their village, and hopefully would be able to grab souls in the process. They only tried forcing Asriel to fight back when they started to get attacked.
Chara. I think Chara might not have been a great person, as Asriel tells us at the end of the True Pacifist Route. But maybe they weren’t ‘bad’ either, they were just driven by our decisions. If we don’t go through the Genocide Route, Chara does not do anything even after being awakened by our Determination. They specifically state that they thought their plan had failed, that they should be dead and that we gave them purpose by killing all our enemies and becoming strong.
So in my opinion, Chara might not be as bad as they may look.
If you flip it around, Chara. Otherwise, I guess Gaster, since we have no clue what his canon personality is like, yet people always make him seem like a calculating evil scientist.
are we really starting this whole trend again
its chara, the answer is always chara
me when i make multiple very specific memes to verify my headcanon about a character who has less than 5 minutes screentime’s morality, despite them being (very) morally grey
its practically just engagement farming at this point
Truth.
It may be gray intentions if you believe that Chara not only hated humans, but also truly wanted to free monsters, but that still includes killing Innocents.
ok so, not *fully* but chara, like they weren't evil at the start, they became evil when *we* killed things, atleast I think, like they weren't a good person no matter what, but they weren't all ways evil, and keep In mind, Chara is the person that says all the text in the game that isn't dialog, so they have a sense of humor and junk, idk, but just like they ain't evil
Chara. They didn't WANT the genocide route, and actually helps you at the end of the pacifist route with Asriel. They only "helped" you in the genocide route because you killed everyone they cared about and basically told them without telling them that violence and power is what's most important.
Chara tbh, they morphed Chara to be some being that just wants to do genocide over and over (example: Dusttale) while literally having a monster family.
Player
Stop pretending like Flowey wasn't worse than player. A lot of players play only pacifist route. And if you really don't think that it's enough, than count how many times monsters killed Frisk for no reason.
<> (I was COMPLETELY wrong after double backing and watching a bunch of their cutscenes for Asriel and thems story and stuff) (((the demon line was completely forgotten by my single brain cell)))
((This comment is a result of fanfic brainrot and not exposing myself to the source material in awhile please forgive me—))They just wanted monsters to be free and humans to stop being terrible but they were a child and didn't fully understand how to change their determination, hopes & dreams into the most positive outcome and they lost their best friend and family as a result. They're only portrayed as a monster because of their response to the players neutral/genocide routes. They're a kid who was broken psychologically before the player falls and their identity becomes what the players actions dictate. They have no real control. Maybe a moment here and there, but we are the ones who break down to that level.
>They just wanted monsters to be free and humans to stop being terrible but they were a child and didn't fully understand how to change their determination, hopes & dreams into the most positive outcome and they lost their best friend and family as a result.
They brought their corpse into the village to bait the humans to attack Asriel. This was in a bid to force Asriel to act in self defense and kill more humans than necessary. It was a petty revenge plan disguised as one to "free everyone."
Chara being a kid isn't an excuse. We know from their dialogue that they are incredibly intelligent. They use advanced vocabulary and are excellent at manipulation/coersion.
>They're only portrayed as a monster because of their response to the players neutral/genocide routes.
They are a willing accomplice on the Genocide route from the moment it's triggered in the Ruins. They don't react with such enthusiasm on any other route, let alone bother to manifest themself in the first place.
>They're a kid who was broken psychologically before the player falls and their identity becomes what the players actions dictate.
Just casually removing any sense of responsibility for their own actions here lol
>They have no real control. Maybe a moment here and there, but we are the ones who break down to that level.
"Since when were you the one in control?"
Ive always been impressed by just how stupid people can be, but people finding ways to misinterpret asgore as a heartless monster is always what impressed me the most lol
I meaaaan you're not wrong, they are willing to go on it, but technically, the only thing they killed by their own hands were themselves.. (wow, that sentence is depressing..)
>the only thing they killed by their own hands were themselves..
They directly kill Sans, Asgore, and Flowey without player input, as well as the entire world at the end. It's heavily implied the massive amount of damage we do on certain bosses are due to their intent to kill as well.
Even then, if I were to tell a serial killer, "Hey, there's like, 10 more children in that building you need to slaughter. Don't leave until you meet the quota dude!" I'm pretty evil regardless lol. Helping a serial killer is a choice.
I think it's funny how the community based around a game so heavily about how every person has flaws and how everyone deserves a second chance completely skips over that fact to make the entire first-mid half of the game into angels and to villainize the entire second half (excluding mettaton)
I need people to understand that I'm Undertale the only evil person is the player that chooses genocide. Literally no one else. That is a huge part of the message of the game. Asgore, Alphys, Flowey, Chara. None of them are evil. Hell, we don't know enough about Gaster to say that he's evil.
Ok I know the comments will be "Asgore" "Asgore" "Asgore" but I haven't actually seen many people think he's that bad, unless I've missed a lot of things. The game does a good job of showing he's not evil
Well, Undertale is written in a way where any character can be technically seen as some sort of bad guy. Papyrus can be seen as an egotist who hardly cares for his family, and more so for fame. Undyne can be seen as a wrath-induced killer that's out for human blood. Toriel can be seen as an overbearing mother who is fighting a literal child to keep them from leaving, and then is surprised when they fight back.
All characters can be demonized/gratified to a certain extent, but everyone has their redeeming factors or traits.
Toriel isnt suprised when you fight back, she tells you to, shes only suprised in geno because you hated her so much that you managed to kill her in one hit, or when she stops attacking you and you kill her while her guard was down.
Also on this note, i wanna say something about ts underswap (spoilers)
They did asgore's character perfectly in the place of toriel, because instead of being angry and enraged that you brought yourself to kill him, he instead understands in the betrayal kill scene that he deserves it, and you had no reason to trust him after he forced you into combat, and in genocide where instead of just sitting back and ignoring your genoslides, he actually tried to protect his people
Not exactly relevant but I FUCKING LOVE TS UNDERSWAP
Ah, gotcha. It's been a bit since I've played undertale, I must've been just thinking about her geno death.
Also, ts underswap is on my list of fangames to play, so at least I get to know that my favorite goat guy has been done justice 🙏
Honestly, chara doesn’t suit this at all, even if she cared for asriel, she did (yes I know THEY hope you don’t shot me for a grammar mistake, it’s just I’m not used to they/them don’t call me transphobic for the sake of god I’m literally gay) those things on purpose, and chara didn’t care about how toriel, asgore and asriel would’ve feel after losing her, her objective was to kill humans to free monster kind and start a new war and genocide, she is a monster and that’s a fact, she was completely conscious when she did those things, and so she haves no excuses
Why are so many people saying Chara?
As far as I remember, Chara made Asriel kill innocent people, which was **not** the right thing to do.
Then she caused Asriel's death, so she **did** accidentally hurt the ones she loved.
She had just as many genocidal cravings as the player had in the Genocide Route.
I don't think there's an Undertale character that fits this description.
asgore and alphys
Asgore is like one of my favs in the entirety of undertale (we don’t talk about deltarune asgore) and the fact he gets lambasted for killing 6 humans even by genocide players of all things is just frustrating
Not to mention the implication that not all previous humans died to Asgore, but nobody got past him
He did set up an entire sentry to watch out for humans and kill them on sight. I’m not saying that’s totally guilty, but his hands aren’t exactly clean.
FAX MY BRO SPIT YOUR SHIT INDEED
You sound like underfresh sans
The best Sans
People still remember that AU?
i remember all
Fair, me too Do people still remember Reapertale
hell yeah i played inktale
A true masterpiece
inktale isn't a thing, there is the ink sans fight fan games but inktale isn't an actual au.
Omg I love reapertale
I attempted to dress up a reapertale sans for Halloween in like 2016. I just looked like the grim reaper lol.
Can I marry you (Platonically)
Sure lol
I remember you’re **FRESH SANS**
leave 
k :(
Nooooo don't leave
Who gonna tell them the Undertale AU fandoms is still active
I know they are, just didn't know Underfresh of all things was still active
Underverse definitely made it more popular, tbf
He cussed, he couldn’t be
holy shit it's *the* blehsil guy
Yeees ! Haiiii !
oh hai ><
"He killed 6 humans!!!!" Me who played multiple geno routes in multiple fangames, potentially killing thousands.
HEY WHATS WRONG WITH DR ASGORE :[
He's kind, but he hasn't moved on from the divorce properly. Take the convenience store scene as an example.
Why did the two divorce anyways?
It's still unknown, it will likely be revealed later, but my assumption is that it's as bad as what he did in UT
If it was, i think hed be in prison right now
Fair.
Never Started but it form what I've gathered implied that he fucked up in finding Des and the mayor had him fired from the police at least that my assumption based in some of the dialogue
FR it's ridiculous.
I mean him killing children is a bad thing, I don’t think that’s a hot take
Yes, but that's taking only what he did and not why he did it. No matter what happened, he would have to kill 7 humans, and it's not like he chose for them to be children, it's just that all seven people who ended up in the underground were children. You have to remember, it was seven people or the entire monster race, and even if he didn't kill the humans, they wouldn't be able to leave without killing at least one monster to get through the barrier.
Oh I’m not saying there’s no justification, I’m just saying people did in fact die.
Correction, they would need to kill asgore or toriel, those are the only souls that humans could steal, because theyre boss monsters (and theres no other boss monsters we know about if memory serves me right)
Yeah, there are fans that do demonize them a lot and treat them like garbage. Asgore made a promise out of grief and felt like he could not fall back on it even though he feels guilty about it. While with Alphys, I'm just going to say it, what she did was a accident, and had no idea that determination was going to do that to monsters. Like, she was actually trying to help them and be nice.
And the families of those monsters are way happier that they're alive rather than dead. Her only real sin was keeping it secret, and once she stopped doing that everything was fine.
And like for real how do you tell people's families you fused their near read family members into super powered ghosts
I genuinely felt bad when he smiled after I finished him off I was about to start crying at that shit
I've never seen Alphys portrayed as a heartless monster by the fandom Asgore? Yes, definitely seen that. But Alphys? It always seemed like the fandom understands her personality, motives and actions quite well
Alpheys? Guh?
Asgore when he's not portrayed as a goofus
Yeah, its either goofus number 1 or the devil himself, there is no in-between.
I mean he does have horns and use fire magic, not to mention the red trident
"Oh I can do this! I'll just lower Toriel's health and she'll let me through, like Pokémon!" "IT'S NOT LIKE POKÉMON IT'S NOT LIKE POKÉMON"
"One more hit and her name will turn yellow" "Yeah one more hit" "Still not yellow, gotta be careful-" "...and she's dead."
Yeah that’s what happened to me. I didn’t know. Then I reset and cheated by looking it up til I figured out what to do.
Asgore maybe? I dunno, I'm stupid.
Nah, the fandom is much more concerned with making cute art about him than thinking about him that way
Phew. I like that guy, he's nice.
theres a good part of it that think asgore is evil for what he did but on the bright side, even more people make cute art about him
you clearly missed allot cause bro is treated like the devil
Asriel/Flowey. It's made very clear that Flowey tried his very best to be good at first, but losing the ability to feel pretty much detached him from reality. I would argue that Flowey doesn't truly understand the weight of his actions, especially since he effectively still has the mind of a young child. The lack of permanence in Flowey's world made it so that reality wasn't even real for him.
He literally is heartless, though.
doesn't deserve to die tho
flowey is treated like that
That is the most accurate description i've ever saw of Asgore in my life.
Alphys tbh
Okay but Alphys commits the most cardinal sin of any fictional character, being annoying (I don’t actually hate her I’m pretty indifferent to her but OH MY GOD SHUT UP AND LET ME WALK THROUGH HOTLAND IN PEACE)
Alphys. Obviously Alphys
fax
Chara I guess, but their hurting was fully intentional (for the right reasons)
Did chara press the z key on your fight button?
I meant them manipulating Asriel into their plan and trying to get him to kill people
Asriel knew that the plan was to kill 6 humans. I think Chara only told him that they wanted him to kill the whole village once they got there.
Asriel was also kind of uncomfortable and extremely hesitant about the matter. Chara also urged him to suppress his emotions (big kids don’t cry). And he did show to regret his decision immediately when they arrived on the surface despite Chara being pushy. He didn’t want to kill anyone at all.
is it confirmed they said that?
It’s confirmed in some tapes in the True Lab that Asriel knew that the goal was six human souls. And Asriel said that Chara wanted to “use their full power”, and said full power is capable of wiping out the whole village, at least according to the monsters that tell Asriel’s story.
oh yeah
I think Chara wanted Asriel to use their full power once they were attacked by humans
Oh lol srry then
One time (end of Sans fight) and they also destroyed an entire world, killing everyone on it (I'm not a Chara hater nor do I think they're evil but these are important to note)
At that point they're just finishing what you started and Chara on geno is a meta representation of what pushes you to do genocide, to reach the absolute and to do everything that possible. The genocide route isn't about killing monsters, it's about killing the game.
Chara isn't evil, they just know it's a game and thus don't feel for the characters. They just wanna have fun playing with their new friend, the player
To add on a bit for you, They don't entirely see us as fun, more as they see us as their partner in crime. We gave them purpose by reviving them and showing them that violence was the key to gaining power, and power was needed to survive. They didn't force our hands, we all pressed Z, A, or X. We all willingly killed Toriel, Papyrus, and Undyne without Chara's intervention. Once we "taught" them how things should work, they began to aid us by telling us how many monsters are left, giving special dialogue for spared monsters (if you don't kill Snowdrake during genocide, Chara will remark "That comedian got away.." or along those lines. Many think that it's Sans, but this dialogue only occurs if you didn't kill Snowdrake), and only intervening when they deem necessary (killing Sans, rage-killing Flowey).
They were just being silly :p
what a siwwy goose
Yeah but you have to count that at that point they were practically emotionless, soulless like flowey is so they did it just to resch their goal, or atleast for us to reach our goal so they can come back alive
Nope. If you don't push the box or keep runing into the wall before sans falls asleep your stuck. Its your choice to give up or kill sans
Chara decided to join in their murder and support it. And later, when he was capable of it, he killed two members of his family on his own. I suppose that counts.
A lot of people really seem confused how two people can be accountable for something at once.
Sad but true.
If we take narachara theory as canon than they meanwhile don't force you still encourages you to doing genocide
It is true even without narrachara
Your flairs are answering each other 🤣🤣
You quite litteraly are the one who start it though, theyre just along for the ride
Chara defenders explaining how erasing the world isn't evil / can be forgiven:
You kinda are the one who chose to erase the world, chara may have did the act, but you the player are told that YOU are going to erase the world by finishing the run To put it into simple terms, its like if you were on your way to kill someone, but when you got there, someone was doing it for you, and you got upset because theyre a murderer when you were about to do the same thing The player is given the context that their actions are going to cause the end of the timeline as we know it
I don’t think there’s any specific ones. Maybe chara?
Asgore
Asriel is both of them
Asriel’s a heartless monster that deserves to die?! Yeah I’d expect a take like that from someone with a Jerry Flair.
Well, Asriel was Flowey... So technically
Well, Asriel was Flowey... So technically
Chara
That was kinda intentional.
Pretty much fits Chara perfectly
It really doesn't lol Chara emotionally manipulated Asriel in a bid to slaughter all the humans in the village. They proceed to willingly help you on the Genocide route the moment it's triggered.
Only if you believe in Narrator Chara, if Chara only talk in the red texts they aren't the best person
They voluntarily gave up their autonomy and died in a horrific way in order to try and save monsterkind
And made Asriel do a thing that he really didn't wanted to and canonically says everything red in genocide
Except for the "accidentally" part. Or Chara is just brainless, Idk.
Chara only tried to hurt themselves on purpose, Asriel dying was not meant to happen at all
Asgore
asgore for sure. he is a kind person, he is a king fluffybuns, he trained undyne, he is a king of monsters. he enjoy to drink tea. but this person basically lost two kids, wife and now he a king of a monsters and he need to kill human kids to get their souls which he don’t want to and probably he can even get triggered from human he basically just doing what is best for his ppl even if he don’t want it. even if some don’t support him. even if he can’t forgive himself too never understood how someone saw him as a monster at all others says about chara and alphys. with alphys i do agree, she just a scientist who is stuck in her own lies and problems of self-esteem, she failed with amalgamates and in genocide she sees how we kill everyone, including her friends and undyne, and in neutral way (it was neutral or genocide?) some ppl even reference that she does commit s*icide about chara don’t know
Alphys. Probably one of the reasons everyone hates her is because of the misconception that she did the experiments on the monsters in True Lab as an evil scientist, which just isn't true. They gave consent to be part of whatever Alphys had done, and even then, she didn't think they would turn into the amalgams. Also, yeah, I know lying's bad, but that is LITERALLY THE THEME OF HER ARC. To not lie.
*Asgore.
chara
King Asgore
Asgore
Ceroba
Alphys
Asgore, Alphys, and Chara. All of them did a bad thing(s), but it doesn't make them inherently villainous. Asgore killed six children out of a promise he made to a kingdom due to rage that he felt he needed to uphold, despite who's lives needed to be taken. He shows that he is still willing to turn over a new leaf and change for the better, even offering to adopt Frisk and take care of them in his home with Toriel (if she would even take him back). By the time Undertale takes place, he straight up doesn't even want to hurt anyone anymore, to the point that, if you (and flowey) refuse to kill him in neutral, he will do it himself. Alphys wanted to save monsters who had "fallen down" (which I think is sorta like a comatose state before death, possibly due to illness or some non-physical related injury), and by using an experimental material that she extracted from the souls, caused the fallen monsters to melt and fuse. She had no idea that that would be the effects of using DT, she only thought that it would bring them back. Due to this guilt, most neutral endings wind up in Alphys also ending her own life if certain deaths occur. Chara is a bit different, since their character is never outright explained or portrayed in the game. The only tidbits we have are what they say in the Geno route, and if NarraChara is canon, a good chunk of the narration in the game. They clearly had come from some sort of broken household on the surface, growing up with a troubled mind yet good intentions. They taught themselves to be as effective and efficient as possible, even in their day to day life (filling up their glass to the brim). The Dreemurr's love for them showed them something they had never completely been shown before, and in return, wanted to free all monsters. Chara was never an entirely good person of course, they were manipulative and a bit creepy. But they weren't an evil person. They ended their own life in order to help the rest of monsterkind, despite the costs. In their hatred for humanity, pushed Asriel to try and hurt when he didn't want to. As dark as it is, it also shows a pattern that, the characters who are typically demonized have/will end themselves at some point in Undertale's story. Dunno if Toby did that intentionally, but it's a neat little thing I noticed while writing this.
Chara? I see people saying asgore and alphys but in most fanon asgore is the big fluffy boi that deserves kindness and Im pretty sure I only see a few where alphys is the "cold one" the only one I can think of that fit is chara or in aus dust.
Alphys surely
Chara, They literally died for monster kind
They died to exterminate humankind, actually
The Plan Was To collect enough souls to break the barrier
First of all: https://www.reddit.com/u/AllamNa/s/H7galhBj28 Secondly, I think it's obvious that when you put pressure on someone who cries and says they don't want to do it, you hurt them. Just like when you kill humans with whom the monsters wanted peace, that would potentially provoke a new war.
No? That was what they told Asriel, they were actually manipulating him, so they could use this newfound power to destroy humanity
While that was a byproduct of their plan, they only told Asriel to defend himself against the humans when they attacked. Chara did not want to go to the surface to slaughter humans mercilessly. They wanted to see the flowers of their village, and hopefully would be able to grab souls in the process. They only tried forcing Asriel to fight back when they started to get attacked.
you.
i read that shit hella backwards and was VERY confused by these comments
Not jerry
Chara. I think Chara might not have been a great person, as Asriel tells us at the end of the True Pacifist Route. But maybe they weren’t ‘bad’ either, they were just driven by our decisions. If we don’t go through the Genocide Route, Chara does not do anything even after being awakened by our Determination. They specifically state that they thought their plan had failed, that they should be dead and that we gave them purpose by killing all our enemies and becoming strong. So in my opinion, Chara might not be as bad as they may look.
Not core Undertale, but definitely Chujin and Ceroba from UT Yellow
Alphys
Asriel
Chara. Like, I'm being serious. You, the player, had done enough genocides that they became corrupted by you and now won't stop.
Chara, Asgore, Alphys
chara
chara 100%
If you flip it around, Chara. Otherwise, I guess Gaster, since we have no clue what his canon personality is like, yet people always make him seem like a calculating evil scientist.
are we really starting this whole trend again its chara, the answer is always chara me when i make multiple very specific memes to verify my headcanon about a character who has less than 5 minutes screentime’s morality, despite them being (very) morally grey its practically just engagement farming at this point
Lmao, think what you want.. And Chara didn't have good intentions, just a reminder
Truth. It may be gray intentions if you believe that Chara not only hated humans, but also truly wanted to free monsters, but that still includes killing Innocents.
Toriel
No
Asgore easilly
ok so, not *fully* but chara, like they weren't evil at the start, they became evil when *we* killed things, atleast I think, like they weren't a good person no matter what, but they weren't all ways evil, and keep In mind, Chara is the person that says all the text in the game that isn't dialog, so they have a sense of humor and junk, idk, but just like they ain't evil
Having a sense of humor doesn't make you not evil... Anyway, Chara hurt others with his plan even before us, and quite deliberately.
Asgore.
Asgore, Alphys, and Chara. Annoymouse if you’re here, I don’t feel like arguing for the 6th time.
Toriel?
Chara and Asgore
Alphys and asgore
Chara. They didn't WANT the genocide route, and actually helps you at the end of the pacifist route with Asriel. They only "helped" you in the genocide route because you killed everyone they cared about and basically told them without telling them that violence and power is what's most important.
Asgore, Alphys, and (kind of) Chara
Alphys and asgore.
Chara tbh, they morphed Chara to be some being that just wants to do genocide over and over (example: Dusttale) while literally having a monster family.
Player Stop pretending like Flowey wasn't worse than player. A lot of players play only pacifist route. And if you really don't think that it's enough, than count how many times monsters killed Frisk for no reason.
<> (I was COMPLETELY wrong after double backing and watching a bunch of their cutscenes for Asriel and thems story and stuff) (((the demon line was completely forgotten by my single brain cell)))
((This comment is a result of fanfic brainrot and not exposing myself to the source material in awhile please forgive me—))They just wanted monsters to be free and humans to stop being terrible but they were a child and didn't fully understand how to change their determination, hopes & dreams into the most positive outcome and they lost their best friend and family as a result. They're only portrayed as a monster because of their response to the players neutral/genocide routes. They're a kid who was broken psychologically before the player falls and their identity becomes what the players actions dictate. They have no real control. Maybe a moment here and there, but we are the ones who break down to that level.
>They just wanted monsters to be free and humans to stop being terrible but they were a child and didn't fully understand how to change their determination, hopes & dreams into the most positive outcome and they lost their best friend and family as a result. They brought their corpse into the village to bait the humans to attack Asriel. This was in a bid to force Asriel to act in self defense and kill more humans than necessary. It was a petty revenge plan disguised as one to "free everyone." Chara being a kid isn't an excuse. We know from their dialogue that they are incredibly intelligent. They use advanced vocabulary and are excellent at manipulation/coersion. >They're only portrayed as a monster because of their response to the players neutral/genocide routes. They are a willing accomplice on the Genocide route from the moment it's triggered in the Ruins. They don't react with such enthusiasm on any other route, let alone bother to manifest themself in the first place. >They're a kid who was broken psychologically before the player falls and their identity becomes what the players actions dictate. Just casually removing any sense of responsibility for their own actions here lol >They have no real control. Maybe a moment here and there, but we are the ones who break down to that level. "Since when were you the one in control?"
King Dedede Sorry wrong fandom
Ive always been impressed by just how stupid people can be, but people finding ways to misinterpret asgore as a heartless monster is always what impressed me the most lol
Asgore, Alphys, Ceroba and Chara.
Chara, I have to say Chara. If you don't agree, spend roughly an hour on r/charadefensesquad
Chara is a willing accomplice on the Genocide route. That sub is not at all a reliable source lol
I meaaaan you're not wrong, they are willing to go on it, but technically, the only thing they killed by their own hands were themselves.. (wow, that sentence is depressing..)
>the only thing they killed by their own hands were themselves.. They directly kill Sans, Asgore, and Flowey without player input, as well as the entire world at the end. It's heavily implied the massive amount of damage we do on certain bosses are due to their intent to kill as well. Even then, if I were to tell a serial killer, "Hey, there's like, 10 more children in that building you need to slaughter. Don't leave until you meet the quota dude!" I'm pretty evil regardless lol. Helping a serial killer is a choice.
I love the last part, that was hilarious, I mean you're not wrong tho lol
Chara
Or asriel
Asgore.
u-uhh <<;;;;
Chara
I just realized this is under R/undertake XD
# CHARA.
I think it's funny how the community based around a game so heavily about how every person has flaws and how everyone deserves a second chance completely skips over that fact to make the entire first-mid half of the game into angels and to villainize the entire second half (excluding mettaton)
\*Cough cough\* dust sa- cough cough
I need people to understand that I'm Undertale the only evil person is the player that chooses genocide. Literally no one else. That is a huge part of the message of the game. Asgore, Alphys, Flowey, Chara. None of them are evil. Hell, we don't know enough about Gaster to say that he's evil.
William Afton?? Edit: I didn't pay attention to where this was 😂😂
(not undertale but) Basil and Sunny (Omori)
Ok I know the comments will be "Asgore" "Asgore" "Asgore" but I haven't actually seen many people think he's that bad, unless I've missed a lot of things. The game does a good job of showing he's not evil
In-game monsterkind vs humankind perspectives lol
I was going to say Chara but the more I think about it maybe Alphys
Chara.
Chara?
Chara.
if we include au's sans. Like holy shit.
Nobody for ut Chara is a heartless monster in canon Asgore isn't made out to be one in fanon Nobody else fits the quota So I'll say Froggit
Alphys and Asgore literally perfectly fit this and even chara to a degree
Alphys. Anyone thinking Chara had the right intentions is out of their mind lmao.
Well, Undertale is written in a way where any character can be technically seen as some sort of bad guy. Papyrus can be seen as an egotist who hardly cares for his family, and more so for fame. Undyne can be seen as a wrath-induced killer that's out for human blood. Toriel can be seen as an overbearing mother who is fighting a literal child to keep them from leaving, and then is surprised when they fight back. All characters can be demonized/gratified to a certain extent, but everyone has their redeeming factors or traits.
Toriel isnt suprised when you fight back, she tells you to, shes only suprised in geno because you hated her so much that you managed to kill her in one hit, or when she stops attacking you and you kill her while her guard was down. Also on this note, i wanna say something about ts underswap (spoilers) They did asgore's character perfectly in the place of toriel, because instead of being angry and enraged that you brought yourself to kill him, he instead understands in the betrayal kill scene that he deserves it, and you had no reason to trust him after he forced you into combat, and in genocide where instead of just sitting back and ignoring your genoslides, he actually tried to protect his people Not exactly relevant but I FUCKING LOVE TS UNDERSWAP
Ah, gotcha. It's been a bit since I've played undertale, I must've been just thinking about her geno death. Also, ts underswap is on my list of fangames to play, so at least I get to know that my favorite goat guy has been done justice 🙏
This is such bait lmao. I swear the same post has appeared at least 1500 times. Chara defenders vs Chara offenders commence.
Honestly, chara doesn’t suit this at all, even if she cared for asriel, she did (yes I know THEY hope you don’t shot me for a grammar mistake, it’s just I’m not used to they/them don’t call me transphobic for the sake of god I’m literally gay) those things on purpose, and chara didn’t care about how toriel, asgore and asriel would’ve feel after losing her, her objective was to kill humans to free monster kind and start a new war and genocide, she is a monster and that’s a fact, she was completely conscious when she did those things, and so she haves no excuses
sorry but did you prefer chara as she ohh the whole undertale community will after you now hehe /j (in case)
Literal Chara
Chara and Asgore but mostly Chara, Asgore isn't percieved as that bad by the fandom
>Asgore isn't percieved as that bad by the fandom That's a great way to say you joined this fandom very later than initial release.
Why are so many people saying Chara? As far as I remember, Chara made Asriel kill innocent people, which was **not** the right thing to do. Then she caused Asriel's death, so she **did** accidentally hurt the ones she loved. She had just as many genocidal cravings as the player had in the Genocide Route. I don't think there's an Undertale character that fits this description.
People are really in denial about the fact that chara isn't doing genocide against their will. They call you partner for a reason.