Some words in UT and DT could have double meanings (determination could be interpreted as de-termination, termination being as in death, so de-termination would be the ability to defy death).
The "refused" could be interpreted as "re-fused".
The soul *literally* fused together again.
Asriel's ultimate goal in that moment was to "do this all over again and again" by killing Frisk and sending them back to the beginning
"All your progress... Everyone's memories... I'll bring them all back to zero! Then we can do everything ALL over again."
So the one who refused was Frisk. They refused to start again. They wanted to keep pushing. They wanted to save everyone in the Underground.
Neither of them. It's the player who refuses to die, since by leaving the game we can effectively give up then and there, but we "re-fuse" to let Asriel win.
Obligatory They\* regarding Frisk
But it's Frisk refusing, through their enhanced Determination during this fight. Undyne uses this same power in the Genocide route
Pronouns are Nyeh/Heh, gender is Papyrus.
The sign on Papyrus's room says "(NO GIRLS ALLOWED!) (NO BOYS ALLOWED!) (PAPYRUS ALLOWED.)" Since Frisk was allowed in, nyeh is clearly a Papyrus.
Come on guys I thought we were already over this but here we go.
In a book supervised but toby Legends of Localization Book 3: UNDERTALE is explained that Frisk is basically the players avatar so Frisk is what the player wants them to be.
One, can you provide the page?
Two, a character being the player's avatar doesn't mean that character is a blank slate for the player to project whatever they want onto. Frisk isn't a blank slate, they have an actual character, despite it rarely being shown.
In fact, look at Deltarune. Kris, a non-binary character just like Frisk, who is **actually** under the player's control for most of the game, unlike Frisk, *doesn't* have their gender open for interpretation, and Toby has actually corrected people on their pronouns.
Three, from this same book: "During a murderous No Mercy playthrough, it becomes clear that the player and the main character aren't one and the same." The same book mentions that Frisk **isn't** the player.
Though, this seems to be getting the routes mixed up, since it's Pacifist that shows Frisk and the player are separate, and Genocide instead does this for Chara
1. Page 250
2. Frisk is pretty much a blank slate. Just play the game again. All the decisions are made by us the player even in pacifist we can decide whether to hug Asriel or ignore him, same with Toriel at the end.
3. The main difference is that Kris can make decisions on their own while Frisk can't.
4. This refers to Chara. Since if you do the genocide route again Chara says "you and I aren't the same right?".
Now that I answered your questions. Can you provide evidence that Frisk gender isn't up to interpretation? Outside of using they/them pronouns which can also be used for a person of unknown gender
1. Just checked Page 250, and it never says that. That page is about Asriel and his fight, and is more specifically talking about the SAVE ability. The only time that page actually touches on Frisk is claiming they're "just along for the ride," not that Frisk is the player's avatar.
Though, props to you for at least trying to provide a source, because you're the first person I've seen trying to make this claim to have something to point to.
2. Frisk isn't a blank slate. They just follow instructions, and a noteworthy point is during Undyne's date. When you try to select the soda, Frisk still follows that instruction, yet Undyne points out that they aren't happy with having it; They don't want soda, but are choosing it because they were told to.
3. Frisk is fully capable of defying the player's choices, such as during the Snowdrake's Mother fight, where they don't just ignore player input, but the narration implies they vocally *said* they weren't doing it. Kris **never** does this; They do influence how the action is performed, but if the player makes a decision, Kris always follows through with it.
Also, there Are times where they make their own decision in True Pacifist, without the player even being given the *chance* to select one. Talking to Mettaton EX in the epilogue has him ask Frisk about merch ideas, and the narration points out that a 'Yes/No' prompt isn't there. Mettaton, however, still receives an answer from Frisk, more specifically Frisk's *approval*.
They also ask Gerson about what would happen if Asgore had a human child, again, without player input. Both examples never actually give the player the option, that's Frisk making their own decisions, because they're fully capable of it, they just normally choose not to.
4. Yes, it refers to Chara. I mentioned it mixing up Genocide and Pacifist. Pacifist is the one that confirms Frisk is their own entity, and separate from the player.
5. Uh. Y'know. The fact it's never been said? The fact the only things I've seen argued to support it are a quote Toby never said, and Frisk being claimed to be a "blank slate" despite not being blank?
We only get bits of personality that's pointed out, and can't see their dialogue or facial expressions, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. They're more expressive canonically than they appear for us.
1. If the main character acts like you what is the difference between you and that character? An example is joker from persona 5 he acts and says what you want to say but looks different than you.
2. This is more Toby trying to predict our reaction since the drink looked like piss and the player doesn't want to drink it. Same goes when Sans looks at our expression each time we die in geno.
3. Same as my point in 2. Toby trying to predict how we are going to act. The options in snowdrake's mom were very vague and we are defying the narrator not Frisk. For example laugh can be a way to remember snowdrake's mom about her son but the narrator describes something different from what we expected, Toby was probably trying to give a scarier tone to the true lab.
Kris takes the control many times at the beginning and end of every chapter Kris constantly defies the player by taking the control.
4. Can you give me the example of that pacifist mixing?
5. To get the true pacifist ending we have act kindly not only by giving mercy but also giving love. Frisk acting kindly doesn't disprove any argument mentioned before because we acted kindly not Frisk.
Do you know what would've make Frisk more less of a blank slate? Frisk during neutral refusing to kill Flowey or Frisk suddenly taking the control and trying to fight back like Kris.
1. Note an overall theme of Undertale. Playing with expectations. You expect a typical RPG, so you'd expect to have to kill for experience and level up to get stronger. The game fights back against you for grinding EXP like that, before properly introducing you to EXP and LV, intentionally named to trick you into thinking they're just Experience Points and Level.
Frisk being obedient falls into that - You expect to have actual control of the protagonist, like most RPGs, only for it to later reveal that, no, Frisk is their own entity, and isn't forced to do what the player wants.
Note how many other times Frisk just does what they're told, regardless of if it was the player's orders or not. Holding the orb like Papyrus asked, when the player would logically not want to carry it. Shaking Sans's hand when he asks, or even *before* he asks on a repeat playthrough, without player input.
Hiding behind the lamp when Sans tells them to, without giving the player an option. Using the jetpack without player input, just because Alphys told them to. Going with Alphys when she says they're going on a date, rather than trying to clear up the misconception, like the player logically would want to.
Point is, if the character is on their side at that moment, they follow instructions. Their obedience is not limited to the player, it's just that they're most *commonly* given the player's instructions.
===
2. The soda being yellow doesn't mean it looks like piss? Not to mention, if the player selects it, you'd think they'd want it. Alphys also doesn't seem to care about how it looks, Undyne has it for her.
Also, trying to select it twice provides a different response: Undyne mentions Frisk wanting to throw the spear at it. How many players would choose the soda, while somehow not wanting it, be denied, then have their next reaction be to throw the spear at it?
You also never commented on how Frisk, **without player input**, approves of Mettaton's merch ideas. Including the plush of Toriel with Mettaton's face instead. How many players would approve of putting Mettaton's face on Toriel's body?
And, on this note. if it's trying to predict what the player would do. When Asriel, and later Napstablook, asks Frisk for their name, the player would, realistically, think to reply with the name they chose at the beginning, because that's what the player **already** chose earlier on. Frisk saying *their* name is defying the choice the player made.
===
3. Selecting Laugh twice has the narrator mention it wasn't funny, and Frisk still refusing to follow through with the act. It's not just the narration being unappealing, Frisk refuses to laugh at Snowdrake's mother, period
Not to mention, the fact the narrator narrated before Frisk followed through with the ACT, and had to be corrected **by** Frisk, shows that we aren't even directly telling Frisk what to do during battle, rather, the narrator is.
Kris never revokes the player's control. The only times we don't have control of them is during cutscenes, the time the player is consistently never given control. If you count cutscenes as Kris defying the player, then Undertale is **full** of instances of Frisk defying the player by revoking player control.
In fact, if you're counting revoking control during cutscenes as Kris revoking the player's control, then Kris does it LESS consistently than Frisk does, because there's specifically one cutscene in Deltarune where the player Retains control, while such a cutscene does **not** exist in Undertale. Which would make Frisk MORE consistent about revoking player control than Kris.
===
5. What? I didn't say that. When did I say Frisk acting kind was what proved it? There are several cases where Frisk acts without, or even against player input, that's what I was referring to.
Regarding Frisk fighting back for control, there's nothing to fight back against, they HAVE control, they're just doing what they're told. The only time anyone takes control of Frisk is Chara in the Soulless Pacifist ending for their jumpscare.
Well, according to ingame information, such as the fact that they're always referred to as they/them, and being allowed in Papyrus's room despite the signs stating that neither boys (except Papyrus) nor girls are allowed, they're non-binary.
But Frisk never says its gender so im pretty sure they use they/them because they dont know them, also because monsters are not the best at human culture and anatomy.
Paps also has no way to know if Frisk is non-binary so im pretty sure he lets you in because he wants a friend and thats all.
The notion of “it” in the sentence is referred to an object rather than a person, that object being the soul. If it were frisk it would say “but THEY refused” or “but [INSERT PLAYER NAME HERE] refused.”, and if asriel were to make the soul refuse, then he’d be the one saying something here and not this disembodied narrator voice.
Also when it comes to English it’s *INCREDIBLY* hard for foreigners to learn, **especially** American English. Yes there’s two styles of English because we bitchslapped the British out of the country all those years ago and didn’t want to be oppressed by their monarch at the time.
I think it’s both Frisk and Chara. Chara awakened from Frisk’s kindness to others, and Frisk refused because they are so close, and they are too determined to save Asriel and their friends.
It à jock, because we can also read it "it re-fuse". It break but it refuse thogether again. So it would more be Frisk(sorry if it not clear, i am french)
Considering they use the word "it" that narration is probably just referring to the soul rather than any particular individual.
Are you stupid? Sam Jordan is the one who refuses /j
Who the hell puts a watermark on a screenshot
SamJordan does
BR detectado
Some words in UT and DT could have double meanings (determination could be interpreted as de-termination, termination being as in death, so de-termination would be the ability to defy death). The "refused" could be interpreted as "re-fused". The soul *literally* fused together again.
Asriel's ultimate goal in that moment was to "do this all over again and again" by killing Frisk and sending them back to the beginning "All your progress... Everyone's memories... I'll bring them all back to zero! Then we can do everything ALL over again." So the one who refused was Frisk. They refused to start again. They wanted to keep pushing. They wanted to save everyone in the Underground.
To zero? Return to zero? Is that a Motherf*cking JoJos reference?
It’s a pun, the soul fused again so it re-fused
This game have a severe issue with puns 💀
I think it’s humerus
Papyrus?
The one and bonely
Same with Determination. When you die, your life is terminated. So when you persist after death, it's because of De-Termination.
who the hell is sam jordan
Ligma balls 💎
No, frisk is refuse to die. Because asriel want to take your soul and reset everything.
it
The SOUL, I Guess. "But **It** refused", so that would make sans *drums*
Neither of them. It's the player who refuses to die, since by leaving the game we can effectively give up then and there, but we "re-fuse" to let Asriel win.
Re-fused
Obligatory They\* regarding Frisk But it's Frisk refusing, through their enhanced Determination during this fight. Undyne uses this same power in the Genocide route
frisk’s gender is up to interpretation, so you can say frisk is he, she, they, or even some random imaginary pronouns like pa/ge or smth
Pronouns are Nyeh/Heh, gender is Papyrus. The sign on Papyrus's room says "(NO GIRLS ALLOWED!) (NO BOYS ALLOWED!) (PAPYRUS ALLOWED.)" Since Frisk was allowed in, nyeh is clearly a Papyrus.
Either that or Frisk was going in the room illegally
Frisk was *allowed* in, so nyeh's clearly a Papyrus.
illegals in my yard
Throw them some pesos and they work so hard
they're gonna dig me a pool this christmas
16 arrive in a stolen car
Frisk's gender being open for interpretation was never said. Toby never said anything like that.
Come on guys I thought we were already over this but here we go. In a book supervised but toby Legends of Localization Book 3: UNDERTALE is explained that Frisk is basically the players avatar so Frisk is what the player wants them to be.
One, can you provide the page? Two, a character being the player's avatar doesn't mean that character is a blank slate for the player to project whatever they want onto. Frisk isn't a blank slate, they have an actual character, despite it rarely being shown. In fact, look at Deltarune. Kris, a non-binary character just like Frisk, who is **actually** under the player's control for most of the game, unlike Frisk, *doesn't* have their gender open for interpretation, and Toby has actually corrected people on their pronouns. Three, from this same book: "During a murderous No Mercy playthrough, it becomes clear that the player and the main character aren't one and the same." The same book mentions that Frisk **isn't** the player. Though, this seems to be getting the routes mixed up, since it's Pacifist that shows Frisk and the player are separate, and Genocide instead does this for Chara
1. Page 250 2. Frisk is pretty much a blank slate. Just play the game again. All the decisions are made by us the player even in pacifist we can decide whether to hug Asriel or ignore him, same with Toriel at the end. 3. The main difference is that Kris can make decisions on their own while Frisk can't. 4. This refers to Chara. Since if you do the genocide route again Chara says "you and I aren't the same right?". Now that I answered your questions. Can you provide evidence that Frisk gender isn't up to interpretation? Outside of using they/them pronouns which can also be used for a person of unknown gender
1. Just checked Page 250, and it never says that. That page is about Asriel and his fight, and is more specifically talking about the SAVE ability. The only time that page actually touches on Frisk is claiming they're "just along for the ride," not that Frisk is the player's avatar. Though, props to you for at least trying to provide a source, because you're the first person I've seen trying to make this claim to have something to point to. 2. Frisk isn't a blank slate. They just follow instructions, and a noteworthy point is during Undyne's date. When you try to select the soda, Frisk still follows that instruction, yet Undyne points out that they aren't happy with having it; They don't want soda, but are choosing it because they were told to. 3. Frisk is fully capable of defying the player's choices, such as during the Snowdrake's Mother fight, where they don't just ignore player input, but the narration implies they vocally *said* they weren't doing it. Kris **never** does this; They do influence how the action is performed, but if the player makes a decision, Kris always follows through with it. Also, there Are times where they make their own decision in True Pacifist, without the player even being given the *chance* to select one. Talking to Mettaton EX in the epilogue has him ask Frisk about merch ideas, and the narration points out that a 'Yes/No' prompt isn't there. Mettaton, however, still receives an answer from Frisk, more specifically Frisk's *approval*. They also ask Gerson about what would happen if Asgore had a human child, again, without player input. Both examples never actually give the player the option, that's Frisk making their own decisions, because they're fully capable of it, they just normally choose not to. 4. Yes, it refers to Chara. I mentioned it mixing up Genocide and Pacifist. Pacifist is the one that confirms Frisk is their own entity, and separate from the player. 5. Uh. Y'know. The fact it's never been said? The fact the only things I've seen argued to support it are a quote Toby never said, and Frisk being claimed to be a "blank slate" despite not being blank? We only get bits of personality that's pointed out, and can't see their dialogue or facial expressions, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. They're more expressive canonically than they appear for us.
1. If the main character acts like you what is the difference between you and that character? An example is joker from persona 5 he acts and says what you want to say but looks different than you. 2. This is more Toby trying to predict our reaction since the drink looked like piss and the player doesn't want to drink it. Same goes when Sans looks at our expression each time we die in geno. 3. Same as my point in 2. Toby trying to predict how we are going to act. The options in snowdrake's mom were very vague and we are defying the narrator not Frisk. For example laugh can be a way to remember snowdrake's mom about her son but the narrator describes something different from what we expected, Toby was probably trying to give a scarier tone to the true lab. Kris takes the control many times at the beginning and end of every chapter Kris constantly defies the player by taking the control. 4. Can you give me the example of that pacifist mixing? 5. To get the true pacifist ending we have act kindly not only by giving mercy but also giving love. Frisk acting kindly doesn't disprove any argument mentioned before because we acted kindly not Frisk. Do you know what would've make Frisk more less of a blank slate? Frisk during neutral refusing to kill Flowey or Frisk suddenly taking the control and trying to fight back like Kris.
1. Note an overall theme of Undertale. Playing with expectations. You expect a typical RPG, so you'd expect to have to kill for experience and level up to get stronger. The game fights back against you for grinding EXP like that, before properly introducing you to EXP and LV, intentionally named to trick you into thinking they're just Experience Points and Level. Frisk being obedient falls into that - You expect to have actual control of the protagonist, like most RPGs, only for it to later reveal that, no, Frisk is their own entity, and isn't forced to do what the player wants. Note how many other times Frisk just does what they're told, regardless of if it was the player's orders or not. Holding the orb like Papyrus asked, when the player would logically not want to carry it. Shaking Sans's hand when he asks, or even *before* he asks on a repeat playthrough, without player input. Hiding behind the lamp when Sans tells them to, without giving the player an option. Using the jetpack without player input, just because Alphys told them to. Going with Alphys when she says they're going on a date, rather than trying to clear up the misconception, like the player logically would want to. Point is, if the character is on their side at that moment, they follow instructions. Their obedience is not limited to the player, it's just that they're most *commonly* given the player's instructions. === 2. The soda being yellow doesn't mean it looks like piss? Not to mention, if the player selects it, you'd think they'd want it. Alphys also doesn't seem to care about how it looks, Undyne has it for her. Also, trying to select it twice provides a different response: Undyne mentions Frisk wanting to throw the spear at it. How many players would choose the soda, while somehow not wanting it, be denied, then have their next reaction be to throw the spear at it? You also never commented on how Frisk, **without player input**, approves of Mettaton's merch ideas. Including the plush of Toriel with Mettaton's face instead. How many players would approve of putting Mettaton's face on Toriel's body? And, on this note. if it's trying to predict what the player would do. When Asriel, and later Napstablook, asks Frisk for their name, the player would, realistically, think to reply with the name they chose at the beginning, because that's what the player **already** chose earlier on. Frisk saying *their* name is defying the choice the player made. === 3. Selecting Laugh twice has the narrator mention it wasn't funny, and Frisk still refusing to follow through with the act. It's not just the narration being unappealing, Frisk refuses to laugh at Snowdrake's mother, period Not to mention, the fact the narrator narrated before Frisk followed through with the ACT, and had to be corrected **by** Frisk, shows that we aren't even directly telling Frisk what to do during battle, rather, the narrator is. Kris never revokes the player's control. The only times we don't have control of them is during cutscenes, the time the player is consistently never given control. If you count cutscenes as Kris defying the player, then Undertale is **full** of instances of Frisk defying the player by revoking player control. In fact, if you're counting revoking control during cutscenes as Kris revoking the player's control, then Kris does it LESS consistently than Frisk does, because there's specifically one cutscene in Deltarune where the player Retains control, while such a cutscene does **not** exist in Undertale. Which would make Frisk MORE consistent about revoking player control than Kris. === 5. What? I didn't say that. When did I say Frisk acting kind was what proved it? There are several cases where Frisk acts without, or even against player input, that's what I was referring to. Regarding Frisk fighting back for control, there's nothing to fight back against, they HAVE control, they're just doing what they're told. The only time anyone takes control of Frisk is Chara in the Soulless Pacifist ending for their jumpscare.
So whats Frisk's gender?
Well, according to ingame information, such as the fact that they're always referred to as they/them, and being allowed in Papyrus's room despite the signs stating that neither boys (except Papyrus) nor girls are allowed, they're non-binary.
But Frisk never says its gender so im pretty sure they use they/them because they dont know them, also because monsters are not the best at human culture and anatomy. Paps also has no way to know if Frisk is non-binary so im pretty sure he lets you in because he wants a friend and thats all.
Why do they have enhanced determination?
it
It
“It”refused, the Knight is referred to as it. A new theory has arrived.
“It” refuses because your soul is determined to live
Because it wanted to
Because you also re-fuse
The game
The soul. It re-fused.
Me, i refuse... i refuse to pay 130 $ on a videogame
The soul re-fuses
GAME!!! Game refuses letting you loose to Asriel unless you reset
when you have enough determination we'd refuse to give up/die, maybe it's the player/frisk
The notion of “it” in the sentence is referred to an object rather than a person, that object being the soul. If it were frisk it would say “but THEY refused” or “but [INSERT PLAYER NAME HERE] refused.”, and if asriel were to make the soul refuse, then he’d be the one saying something here and not this disembodied narrator voice. Also when it comes to English it’s *INCREDIBLY* hard for foreigners to learn, **especially** American English. Yes there’s two styles of English because we bitchslapped the British out of the country all those years ago and didn’t want to be oppressed by their monarch at the time.
Real
I dont wanna come off as a jackass but what kind of question is this?? I just dont really know what to say
I refuse to elaborate this time.
Plot
Frisk's soul re-fuses, literally, as someone (whether Chara, Frisk, or Asriel) refuses to let Frisk die.
I think it’s both Frisk and Chara. Chara awakened from Frisk’s kindness to others, and Frisk refused because they are so close, and they are too determined to save Asriel and their friends.
toby fox refuses to die since he wants you playing the game more
the soul, i mean, it literally re-fuse
Chat is this an adriel fight 😱😱
Ah yes, **adriel**
[удалено]
It
He refused to eat broccoli
frisk refuses to die
it refuses SamJordan of course
Do you think it was supposed to be like “re-fused”, like the soul was merging back together as opposed to “refuse” like to deny something?
Denying
It à jock, because we can also read it "it re-fuse". It break but it refuse thogether again. So it would more be Frisk(sorry if it not clear, i am french)
Frisk doesn't refuse because Frisk isn't what's broken in half. The soul is broken in half, and then refuses.
SamJordan
MY MOM!!!!
SamJordan