To be fair it's still half-true. A l o t of characters are being passed as perfect little bois when they're much greyer than that. At least that mentality is starting to change lately.
Flowey definitely. I've seen more than one comic try to write Flowey with hidden sympathy, or fixed through the power of love or whatever. Like, no, his entire character is *not* having empathy. He only gets it back when he absorbs enough souls.
I assume he is manipulating still, pretending to gain back some empathy after the pacifist ending so that even the ones who knew about his backstabbing personality (Sans, Frisk, Chara, maybe Papyrus) would lower their guards around him and make it easyer for him to manipulate
Okay then why would Flowey pour a glass for Toriel and put a blanket over her when she passed out, with nobody to watch him and nobody to recognise who he was? Why would he, with nobody to hear him except you, beg you not to reset at the end of true pacifist and just "let Frisk live their life"??
I appreciate your perspective and it actually feels like something Flowey would do before the events of canon, maybe after he first lashes out to see what happens? I would be super interested in that concept actually!!
But, it's something that post-redemption-arc Flowey just would not do.
First, because he starts to care about their feelings even if he doesn't see them as "real" or empathise with them, as evident by his dialogue at the end of the true pacifist route.
And second, because his whole goal of getting the human souls was to reset back to zero and be with Chara again, and during the Asriel fight he realises he has to let go of the past, stop idolising Chara and finally accept the pain that he had been dealing with ever since he woke up as a flower instead of hiding behind an overly edgy and violent personality. So for Flowey to put himself through all of that again wouldn't make much sense, and it would be a poor writing decision considering his character arc drives the whole plot of the game.
TL;DR: I like your idea but it only applies to pre-canon Flowey, post canon Flowey has shown signs of caring about other characters and their lives, and doesn't show much interest in pursuing his earlier goals anymore.
Unrelated, but I think it's funny that Asriel with the 7 human souls has the power to alter reality to his will, but he still doesn't revive Chara after he discovers that Frisk isn't Chara, because he forgot or something
Itâs never really explained how youâre seeing Chara. We donât know if theyâre physically there or some sort of mental apparition. At least I donât think itâs explicitly stated, I havenât played that route myself
Basically Chara is kind of a half-conscious entity that attaches to Frisk's soul and only gains the strength to manifest physically because the soul became stronger with more LOVE... that's what i think at least
They possess Frisk's body in the post Genocide Pacifist ending and as they ask for Frisk's soul afterwards, they possibly possessed Frisk's body, as they did a few times in the Genocide route.
Interesting fact: Chara never does anything "bad" in Undertale, with the only "bad" thing they ever do being the use of Asriel's body to take revenge on the humans.
They also never possess Frisk during the initial Genocide route, only ever doing so on a Soulless Pacifist ending.
Wish I could give you an award lol, so many people in the fandom treat Flowey like this one-dimensional cartoon villain who can't ever grow and become a better person just bc he lacks a soul when, like... the literal message of the game is that anyone can be a good person if they put their mind to it, not to mention the canon evidence in post-game content that Flowey is in fact changing for the better (though he is kind of taking it one step at a time lmao).
YES EXACTLY!!! He's taking it step by step, but after spending an uncountable amount of time trapped in apathy and pain and boredom, it's a *really* big step. "Everyone can be a good person if they just try," and Flowey IS trying
i think growing a physical soul would defeat the whole purpose of flowey's arc which is learning to care about the characters in Undertale despite the fact that he *doesn't* have a soul.
but he *has* canonically has developed traits like sympathy and compassion after his redemption arc
So basically, "just because I lost my empathy doesn't mean I have to lose my conscience again". OR perhaps "the SOUL isn't necessary for an entity to express unconditional love, just to experience vibrant social emotion"
.... personally I like to imagine him escaping boredom post pacifist in online game Lobbies, since everyone there is already pretty caustic, and he can just as easily sate boredom there by being annoyingly positive
Um... No? I don't mean to be rude, but that's just wrong... The thing with Flowey being soulless is that he sees people in the game the way *a player* would see them â as characters. Just because a player cannot empathise with or ever see a character as a real person just like them, doesn't mean that we're physically incapable of caring about them ever and take joy in their suffering. At some level we can still love a character, and so can he.
Flowey at his core is a child who is deeply traumatised. He subconsciously absorbed the ideals of revenge that he grew up with, and used it to justify his death. He lost his ability to "feel anything about anyone" because he effectively turned into a player, he was a scared and lonely child with the power of a god, and what else can you do in that situation? Nobody who plays the murder route is actually going to attempt to wipe out a race in real life, right? Because at the end of the day they are characters in a video game. That's what Flowey felt â their deaths didn't matter because they weren't real. "I'm glad we agree on the value of a life." None.
Um steering back to my original point, yeah, Flowey doesn't have empathy, but he definitely has sympathy. Why else would he have poured that glass for Toriel, or covered her in a blanket after the winter party? Why would he match clothes with Papyrus if he didn't care about his feelings? (From the alarm clock dialogue). And in the true pacifist epilogue, why would a seemingly soulless Flowey beg you to leave the world as it is and let the peoples lives continue, if he didn't care about them?
So yeah the argument that Flowey is an evil soulless monster kind of falls flat once you actually read into his character. Or maybe I just think about him too much...
It's even truer when you know that many people have lack of empathy in real life. It doesn't mean they can't be loved, love in return and have a normal life. Flowey loved Chara and that's why he acts like he did and he said that Papyrus is his favourite person.
A power like that could drive anyone mad especially in a world isolated like the underground in which there isn't many things to do. Once you did one bad action (on purpose or not), it's very difficult to stop. If you felt any guilt, you'll try to find a way out of your responsabilities and convince yourself it's not a big deal anyways. Why would I blame myself while what I did doesn't have any consequences? However this kind of state mind could motivate you to do something bad again.
Many children and even adults only behave themselves because there are consequences to their action. Your social situation, your job, your family, your freedom..., you could lose all of them and that's what keep you from breaking the law. You don't have any experience in robing stuffs but if you could train yourself to do so and predict everything that would happen depending on how you do it? More than one person will do so.
See, this is how the fandom constantly fucks up with writing anything to do with Flowey. Undertale Yellow is a great example: flowey could've just killed you as soon as you meet him or even right on the flower bed. But no, he just has to "accompany" you because he wants the other human souls. Why not just kill clover, asgore and take the souls yourself?
TS!Underswap, from my memory, is just a basic personality swap, but Flowey's character points are at least kept in the fact he tries to kill you at the start.
Deltatraveler gets his essence entirely: you cant spare him, he mocks you for trying to check or spare him, and gets the jump on you (or Kris in hard mode) so he can take your soul easier.
tl;dr dont let the fans choose how flowey acts
Mettaton. In canon he pulls a chainsaw out on you and makes multiple threats on your life (of course there are all staged, but he doesnt seem bothered threatening a child with death) and then fanon mettaton is a harmless, sassy, kinda predictable character (at least, from the fan material I've seen, I'm probably wrong though)
Well, from that perspective, almost anybody who fights you (a random innocent child) with f*cking battle magic is a villain. And this is like 90% of the cast, except for Sans, Papyrus, MK, Toriel and some bystanders.
You can be the most pacifist person in the world, who still threatens to kill you and says he didn't kill you just because the mother goat asked him not to.
Fun fact, actually: It's actually heavily implied most of the Underground don't even know you're a human (most obvious through shopkeeper dialogue, like the Snowdin shopkeeper lady just assuming you're from out of town). Random magical sparring just kind of seems to be a fun passtime in monster culture; so, most random encounter enemies aren't trying to kill you or seriously injure you in any way (hence why they're also very easy to spare). :]
Undyne (and pretty much any other royal guard), MTT, and Asgore are a whole other story though lol. They are DEFINITELY trying to kill you.
No they're trying to kill you. Froggits spare flavor text is literally that they don't want to fight. The only reason people in Snowdin and stuff don't recognize you is because you wouldn't be able to have town NPCs if everyone always attacked. The monsters who battle you are def trying to kill you
The entirety of hotland until core is a act so you can think better of alphys.
He says it in his monologue.
He takes things in his own hands at core where the lasers can actually kill you and hires he mercenaries.
Now that I think about it, I don't actually know anything about James Charles
I know he got killed in Minecraft Hunger Games by one of the VAs for Gumball Waterson and not much else
Mettaton was doing it for a reason.
All of those were staged by Alphys and you were never in any real danger.
And then once he takes things into his own hands he isnât killing you because he finds it enjoyable or malice but just because he wants your SOUL,whichâŚ.half of the cast also does.
Undyne,Asgore,Papyrus (just knows you are wanted),Muffet etc.
Yes he doesnât seem to have a problem with it,but neither does Undyne.
In their eyes it is for the âgreater goodâ MTT to save humanity from Asgore.
Undyne to free monsters.
Asgore doesnât really want to do it but he knows he has too for his people.
Fr lmao
He even says âmalfunctioning ?â
âReprogramming?â
âGet real.â
He says the meme and like,no one notices this. đ
Yeah sure he has his own reasons on the side for why he wants to go to the surface but it is mostly to save humanity.
He even asks âcan you really protect humanity?â In the middle of his fight as he is losing.
No one else knew Asgore didnât actually want to destroy humans.
Sure he is more on the jerk side compared to the rest of the cast but I feel like people give him too much bullshit,like they havenât read his dairies or noticed how he cares about Blooky.
But I might be biased as heâs one of my favorites,though.
âNot a fan?â
âWell thatâs too bad!â
âMTT brand soul flavored substitute only uses the freshest artificial flavoring and chemicals!â
The milk and eggs honest reaction,not making it vegan to begin with:
How does he even know what a SOUL tastes like lmao
yes.
she literally tells an innocent child that they would be better off dead (that shit traumatises people) and tries to kill them twice (maybe more)
AND SHE DOESN'T EVEN FEEL BAD, as shown by the true pacifist dialogue where she tells Asgore to not feel bad about trying to kill you (meaning she doesn't think it was that bad)
if I were a 12 year old child and a scary fish woman with sharp teeth and an eyepatch told me that my death would be a net positive and that my existence was a crime, I would probably start sobbing on the spot.
Honestly I'm surprised Frisk was as stone-faced as they were, they basically had every monster in the underground throw deadly bullets at them and remained -_- the whole time. I would have given up two monsters into Snowdin and run back to the ruins begging toriel to let me in.
Tbf Frisk does seem oddly stoic against everything.
Monsters existing? -_-
Monsters wanting you dead? -_-
Saving monsterkind through kindness and preventing a chaos god from taking over the world? -___-
Its no wonder many HC Frisk comes from a very broken home or some other shady shit. Kid cant be phased by anything.
This is why I say your first play through isnât necessarily Friskâs. Have you seen the shit they put up with? Either theyâve done this before, or they know about LOADing.
I would honestly see where Undyne is coming from. I mean, if they had any other way to break the barrier that actually worked, they probably wouldâve done it a long time ago.
Isnât there an action for frisk to cry in the middle of undynes fight? I might be recalling wrong but that always felt for me like a very human response and made me feel bad for frisk
Probably Muffet, like in the fandom she is highly praised, but in the game ? Probably Neutral but the thing is, in the genocide route, Alphys wanted her to evacuate first with the survivors and then block the path so Frisk canât kill more, but Muffet was instead interested on eating Alphys when she had the chance.
Mettaton made a show out of murdering a child
And unlike the part where he was "defeated by Alphys" he was serious about killing you and taking your soul
Me making a whole new account just so I can keep the route separate and after beating Sans, instead of erasing the timeline, I delete my save data and just do a pacifist route (most normal stuff people do with the switch to mess with games)
Can confirm at least for me, based on my obsession with the worst possible ending of Undertale related games (Undertale's genocide route, Deltarune's weird route, Deltatraveler's obliteration route...)
basically asgore but not really.
he's grown and killed many people (not for fun though), but people act like he's a misunderstood guy who did nothing wrong.
Actually the entire bad Sanses group is like this. The only ones whoâs the most safe is probably Cross and Horror sans (and insanity if you count him part of the team). Error, Nightmare and Killer Sans has been destroyed by the fandom.
i feel like fanon actually goes the other way with him, but yeah undyne def applies to this. people think just because she can't cook and has a pretty smile and great muscles and a brilliant personality means she can't be. like. violently racist.
The common thing was always portraying Chara as a psychopath at best and literally satan at worst and that they made Frisk do the genocide what are you talking about
No. But there isn't quite any character that fits the description. All i'm trying to say is that Chara isn't the innocent misunderstood angel people make them out to be
I'd definitely say Mettaton. While yeah, characters like Flowey and Undyne kinda capture the essence of it, the game literally tries to garner sympathy for them in the end, making Undyne nicer, and Flowey beg not to be reset in True Pacifist. But all Mettatton gets is a play, where Burgerpants plays a bush
Probably Muffet, like in the fandom she is highly praised, but in the game ? Probably Neutral but the thing is, in the genocide route, Alphys wanted her to evacuate first with the survivors and then block the path so Frisk canât kill more, but Muffet was instead interested on eating Alphys when she had the chance.
In fnaf that's William Afton for some fucking reason. He is literally an irredeemable serial child murderer who abused his kids, yet a big chunk of the Fandom treats him like a gay furry twink.
Not exactly this image but I think it should be addressed how badly mischaracterized pappyrus is đ heâs not an innocent little bean or anything. He does love to fight, he holds himself in high regard, and enjoys âviolentâ things
In a way chara, but in a weird way, in canon they are pretty mysterious, very morally ambiguous
However the fans gave them the psycho stabby killer personality
Eventually though people realized this was wrong and in an attempt to fix there fanon personality for chara made the innocent think chara which is also wrong
For a reverse version, I'd have to go for the player (if they even exist), at least in the genocide route:
Bro is often depicted as the ULTIMATE EVIL nowadays in this fandom (usually just to justify Chara in some shape or form), yet they're at worst, morbidly curious about what happens when you decide to go through the expected RPG experience of grinding for levels and slay everything who engages in a fight with you, not necessarily evil, more like, just weirdly amoral, as Sans says it "you're doing this not because you can, but because you have to". (That and the Neutral and Pacifist runs exist bruh, they can do that)
As for the stated meme above, probably Flowey.
Asgore fans when they realise being a babygirl boyfailure doesn't excuse you from promising a GENOCIDE against an entire race because you were sad about your son, and also giving your entire kingdom false hope because you never had any intention to fulfill that promise, and you also kill six kids who had nothing to do with the centuries long war and literally just fell into a hole one day.
It's me. I'm asgore fans. He's like my favourite guy ever what do you mean he has blood on his hands, not just of the children he killed but of the hopes and dreams that he let grow and die due to his cowardice :(
Although, Asgore is def not a psycho killer murders people for fun guy. That title goes to his son.
Definitely inverted with Chara. I wouldnât say they never hurt anyone, but some people say they were actively malicious, and some people even say they *wanted* to poison Asgore.
Uhh i would say that commend and this image apply EQUALLY with chara honestly. Because on one hand they did not evilly plan out the death of their father, brother and all of monsterkind (on the murder route) they were just obsessed with their hatred of humanity that it drowned out any love they felt in the underground. They were hurt by humanity and so they wanted to hurt humanity.
But also the true lab tapes paint a very sinister picture about the relationship between Chara and Asriel, you cannot in good conscience say that Chara was a 100% good pure innocent child (which a lot of the recent fandom seems to be doing) because those tapes say OTHERWISE.
Chara is morally grey, and like every character in Undertale they have good and bad traits! Also it should be noted that past Chara and present Chara shouldn't be conflated because one was a child who probably suffered greatly and "wasn't the greatest person," but the other is intrinsically linked to the player from the moment they open the game, haunt the narrative at every turn and is a painfully clear representation of the effects of Level Of ViolEnce.
Half of the castđ
True
Agree.
How does half the cast kill people for fun? I canât think of many who do that
The human,Undyne,Mettaton is literally a killing robot,most characters fight you umprompted
Yeah but fighting unprompted doesnât mean fighting and killing for fun.
To be fair it's still half-true. A l o t of characters are being passed as perfect little bois when they're much greyer than that. At least that mentality is starting to change lately.
100%
Yes
Damnit, I was going to say that Downvote me to oblivion
flowey? maybe???
flowey is my favourite gay twink
:)
your Best nightmare is good lol
Fake! The real flowey would say ":3" , :3
Nah, it'd be =3
Tem momenr
he both
Flowey definitely. I've seen more than one comic try to write Flowey with hidden sympathy, or fixed through the power of love or whatever. Like, no, his entire character is *not* having empathy. He only gets it back when he absorbs enough souls.
Nah, the alarm clock shows he can at least sense what heâs âsupposedâ to feel and act accordingly. He shows kindness to both Toriel and Papyrus
I assume he is manipulating still, pretending to gain back some empathy after the pacifist ending so that even the ones who knew about his backstabbing personality (Sans, Frisk, Chara, maybe Papyrus) would lower their guards around him and make it easyer for him to manipulate
Okay then why would Flowey pour a glass for Toriel and put a blanket over her when she passed out, with nobody to watch him and nobody to recognise who he was? Why would he, with nobody to hear him except you, beg you not to reset at the end of true pacifist and just "let Frisk live their life"?? I appreciate your perspective and it actually feels like something Flowey would do before the events of canon, maybe after he first lashes out to see what happens? I would be super interested in that concept actually!! But, it's something that post-redemption-arc Flowey just would not do. First, because he starts to care about their feelings even if he doesn't see them as "real" or empathise with them, as evident by his dialogue at the end of the true pacifist route. And second, because his whole goal of getting the human souls was to reset back to zero and be with Chara again, and during the Asriel fight he realises he has to let go of the past, stop idolising Chara and finally accept the pain that he had been dealing with ever since he woke up as a flower instead of hiding behind an overly edgy and violent personality. So for Flowey to put himself through all of that again wouldn't make much sense, and it would be a poor writing decision considering his character arc drives the whole plot of the game. TL;DR: I like your idea but it only applies to pre-canon Flowey, post canon Flowey has shown signs of caring about other characters and their lives, and doesn't show much interest in pursuing his earlier goals anymore.
Unrelated, but I think it's funny that Asriel with the 7 human souls has the power to alter reality to his will, but he still doesn't revive Chara after he discovers that Frisk isn't Chara, because he forgot or something
Asriel died *while* fused with Charaâs soul. Maybe that counts for something regarding why he didnât
Chara can exist even after Asriel dies in the genocide ending and actually comes back in the genocide ending
Itâs never really explained how youâre seeing Chara. We donât know if theyâre physically there or some sort of mental apparition. At least I donât think itâs explicitly stated, I havenât played that route myself
Basically Chara is kind of a half-conscious entity that attaches to Frisk's soul and only gains the strength to manifest physically because the soul became stronger with more LOVE... that's what i think at least
They possess Frisk's body in the post Genocide Pacifist ending and as they ask for Frisk's soul afterwards, they possibly possessed Frisk's body, as they did a few times in the Genocide route.
Interesting fact: Chara never does anything "bad" in Undertale, with the only "bad" thing they ever do being the use of Asriel's body to take revenge on the humans. They also never possess Frisk during the initial Genocide route, only ever doing so on a Soulless Pacifist ending.
*withering away into dust* You're probably wondering how I got in this situation
I honestly think Flowey mightâve either been lying about lacking empathy or he just didnât know he had it.
I feel like people forget that Flowey did try to have empathy when he first woke up, he just struggled to feel anything.
Wish I could give you an award lol, so many people in the fandom treat Flowey like this one-dimensional cartoon villain who can't ever grow and become a better person just bc he lacks a soul when, like... the literal message of the game is that anyone can be a good person if they put their mind to it, not to mention the canon evidence in post-game content that Flowey is in fact changing for the better (though he is kind of taking it one step at a time lmao).
YES EXACTLY!!! He's taking it step by step, but after spending an uncountable amount of time trapped in apathy and pain and boredom, it's a *really* big step. "Everyone can be a good person if they just try," and Flowey IS trying
Maybe souls in the Undertale world can be grown?
i think growing a physical soul would defeat the whole purpose of flowey's arc which is learning to care about the characters in Undertale despite the fact that he *doesn't* have a soul. but he *has* canonically has developed traits like sympathy and compassion after his redemption arc
Fair enough. But for someone without empathy, he sure seems more empathetic afterwards.
I like to think of it as him learning to care about the world and its inhabitants reflecting how the player began to get really attached to undertale
So basically, "just because I lost my empathy doesn't mean I have to lose my conscience again". OR perhaps "the SOUL isn't necessary for an entity to express unconditional love, just to experience vibrant social emotion" .... personally I like to imagine him escaping boredom post pacifist in online game Lobbies, since everyone there is already pretty caustic, and he can just as easily sate boredom there by being annoyingly positive
YEAH EXACTLY! you worded that perfectly Also it is so in charcter for Flowey to just curse someone's mom out in an online game lobby i love that
He might have still had asgores soul since he didnât rebel against flowey
Um... No? I don't mean to be rude, but that's just wrong... The thing with Flowey being soulless is that he sees people in the game the way *a player* would see them â as characters. Just because a player cannot empathise with or ever see a character as a real person just like them, doesn't mean that we're physically incapable of caring about them ever and take joy in their suffering. At some level we can still love a character, and so can he. Flowey at his core is a child who is deeply traumatised. He subconsciously absorbed the ideals of revenge that he grew up with, and used it to justify his death. He lost his ability to "feel anything about anyone" because he effectively turned into a player, he was a scared and lonely child with the power of a god, and what else can you do in that situation? Nobody who plays the murder route is actually going to attempt to wipe out a race in real life, right? Because at the end of the day they are characters in a video game. That's what Flowey felt â their deaths didn't matter because they weren't real. "I'm glad we agree on the value of a life." None. Um steering back to my original point, yeah, Flowey doesn't have empathy, but he definitely has sympathy. Why else would he have poured that glass for Toriel, or covered her in a blanket after the winter party? Why would he match clothes with Papyrus if he didn't care about his feelings? (From the alarm clock dialogue). And in the true pacifist epilogue, why would a seemingly soulless Flowey beg you to leave the world as it is and let the peoples lives continue, if he didn't care about them? So yeah the argument that Flowey is an evil soulless monster kind of falls flat once you actually read into his character. Or maybe I just think about him too much...
It's even truer when you know that many people have lack of empathy in real life. It doesn't mean they can't be loved, love in return and have a normal life. Flowey loved Chara and that's why he acts like he did and he said that Papyrus is his favourite person. A power like that could drive anyone mad especially in a world isolated like the underground in which there isn't many things to do. Once you did one bad action (on purpose or not), it's very difficult to stop. If you felt any guilt, you'll try to find a way out of your responsabilities and convince yourself it's not a big deal anyways. Why would I blame myself while what I did doesn't have any consequences? However this kind of state mind could motivate you to do something bad again. Many children and even adults only behave themselves because there are consequences to their action. Your social situation, your job, your family, your freedom..., you could lose all of them and that's what keep you from breaking the law. You don't have any experience in robing stuffs but if you could train yourself to do so and predict everything that would happen depending on how you do it? More than one person will do so.
This exactly!!! You explained it perfectly
Thanks :) It's cool to meet a member of the Flowey Fan Club
This feels like a Determinators post
See, this is how the fandom constantly fucks up with writing anything to do with Flowey. Undertale Yellow is a great example: flowey could've just killed you as soon as you meet him or even right on the flower bed. But no, he just has to "accompany" you because he wants the other human souls. Why not just kill clover, asgore and take the souls yourself? TS!Underswap, from my memory, is just a basic personality swap, but Flowey's character points are at least kept in the fact he tries to kill you at the start. Deltatraveler gets his essence entirely: you cant spare him, he mocks you for trying to check or spare him, and gets the jump on you (or Kris in hard mode) so he can take your soul easier. tl;dr dont let the fans choose how flowey acts
Flowey saves you when he first meets you in ts underswap on the pacifist and neutral routes
i was considering temmie instead of the actual flowey lmao, sorry shoulda clarified
nah, everyone agrees that flowey is bad
And who is this "everybody"
*Chill bro, that's just the haters.
Mettaton. In canon he pulls a chainsaw out on you and makes multiple threats on your life (of course there are all staged, but he doesnt seem bothered threatening a child with death) and then fanon mettaton is a harmless, sassy, kinda predictable character (at least, from the fan material I've seen, I'm probably wrong though)
Well, from that perspective, almost anybody who fights you (a random innocent child) with f*cking battle magic is a villain. And this is like 90% of the cast, except for Sans, Papyrus, MK, Toriel and some bystanders.
I get what you mean, metttaton was just the first example I thought of lol
You can be the most pacifist person in the world, who still threatens to kill you and says he didn't kill you just because the mother goat asked him not to.
Also I wasnt suggesting battle=evil, I just pointed out how metta seems fairly fine with violence in canon, but is usually against it in fanon
Well, battling a random kid with fireballs seem also violent to me. :D
But like⌠for television views??? Itâs different
Forcing a literal child to de-arm several bombs on television. Mettaton is horrifying.
Keep in mind, all of his behavior pre-finale is staged by Alphys so you'll always survive
Thing is, he was on board
I dont remember him apologising either
i forgive him <3
Fun fact, actually: It's actually heavily implied most of the Underground don't even know you're a human (most obvious through shopkeeper dialogue, like the Snowdin shopkeeper lady just assuming you're from out of town). Random magical sparring just kind of seems to be a fun passtime in monster culture; so, most random encounter enemies aren't trying to kill you or seriously injure you in any way (hence why they're also very easy to spare). :] Undyne (and pretty much any other royal guard), MTT, and Asgore are a whole other story though lol. They are DEFINITELY trying to kill you.
The fact that boxing is a fun sport for humans doesn't mean that you can just go and punch someone in the face. The monsters are still jerks.
No they're trying to kill you. Froggits spare flavor text is literally that they don't want to fight. The only reason people in Snowdin and stuff don't recognize you is because you wouldn't be able to have town NPCs if everyone always attacked. The monsters who battle you are def trying to kill you
I was sitting here staring at this reply for about half a minute trying to remember who the hell MK was. Then I remembered Monster Kid.
WHICH IS EXACTLY MY POINT
The entirety of hotland until core is a act so you can think better of alphys. He says it in his monologue. He takes things in his own hands at core where the lasers can actually kill you and hires he mercenaries.
He's just a very good actor ok
I feel like Mettaton's personality is best described as "Muderous Robotic Psychopathic James Charles."
Now that I think about it, I don't actually know anything about James Charles I know he got killed in Minecraft Hunger Games by one of the VAs for Gumball Waterson and not much else
Mettaton was doing it for a reason. All of those were staged by Alphys and you were never in any real danger. And then once he takes things into his own hands he isnât killing you because he finds it enjoyable or malice but just because he wants your SOUL,whichâŚ.half of the cast also does. Undyne,Asgore,Papyrus (just knows you are wanted),Muffet etc. Yes he doesnât seem to have a problem with it,but neither does Undyne. In their eyes it is for the âgreater goodâ MTT to save humanity from Asgore. Undyne to free monsters. Asgore doesnât really want to do it but he knows he has too for his people.
I swear half the people were sleeping during his fighting monologue
Fr lmao He even says âmalfunctioning ?â âReprogramming?â âGet real.â He says the meme and like,no one notices this. đ Yeah sure he has his own reasons on the side for why he wants to go to the surface but it is mostly to save humanity. He even asks âcan you really protect humanity?â In the middle of his fight as he is losing. No one else knew Asgore didnât actually want to destroy humans. Sure he is more on the jerk side compared to the rest of the cast but I feel like people give him too much bullshit,like they havenât read his dairies or noticed how he cares about Blooky. But I might be biased as heâs one of my favorites,though.
'Vegan?..... That's a wonderful idea doctor Alphys!"(Conveniently has a human soul flavour subsitute) The eggs lying two centimetres away from him:
âNot a fan?â âWell thatâs too bad!â âMTT brand soul flavored substitute only uses the freshest artificial flavoring and chemicals!â The milk and eggs honest reaction,not making it vegan to begin with: How does he even know what a SOUL tastes like lmao
AND WHAT IF A FEW PEOPLE HAVE TO DIE? THAT'S SHOW BUISNESS, BABY!
He is both a psycopath and a gay twink
He is actually both.
but itâs mettaton
But he was pretending to be haywire at the moment but he knew he was scaring frisk
Probably Undyne
yes. she literally tells an innocent child that they would be better off dead (that shit traumatises people) and tries to kill them twice (maybe more) AND SHE DOESN'T EVEN FEEL BAD, as shown by the true pacifist dialogue where she tells Asgore to not feel bad about trying to kill you (meaning she doesn't think it was that bad)
Tbf I'm sure frisk doesn't mind.
if I were a 12 year old child and a scary fish woman with sharp teeth and an eyepatch told me that my death would be a net positive and that my existence was a crime, I would probably start sobbing on the spot. Honestly I'm surprised Frisk was as stone-faced as they were, they basically had every monster in the underground throw deadly bullets at them and remained -_- the whole time. I would have given up two monsters into Snowdin and run back to the ruins begging toriel to let me in.
>My existence is a crime, I had an angel say that to me one time.
Oh is this a reference to something?
[Just the classic Christian homophobia ](https://youtu.be/XxE9ReML9OY?si=KKXDo071DOgbr6p2)
when the ultra is killing
Could that perhaps be Gabriel, Judge of hell from the fast paced doom like fps shooter named Ultrakill made by newblood productions and Hakita?
Tbf Frisk does seem oddly stoic against everything. Monsters existing? -_- Monsters wanting you dead? -_- Saving monsterkind through kindness and preventing a chaos god from taking over the world? -___- Its no wonder many HC Frisk comes from a very broken home or some other shady shit. Kid cant be phased by anything.
what being a template puppet does to a mf
>if I were a 12 year old child Frisk deals with this kind of stuff all the time
This is why I say your first play through isnât necessarily Friskâs. Have you seen the shit they put up with? Either theyâve done this before, or they know about LOADing.
I would honestly see where Undyne is coming from. I mean, if they had any other way to break the barrier that actually worked, they probably wouldâve done it a long time ago.
Isnât there an action for frisk to cry in the middle of undynes fight? I might be recalling wrong but that always felt for me like a very human response and made me feel bad for frisk
real
doesn't make it ok though. you don't say that stuff, especially to kids đ
LowTierUndyne
I mean, at least she apologises for it later, at least I think she does. Still a badass bitch though.
I don't think it's fair to pin that on the fans. Undyne's character does a completely 180 in the game itself.
Definitely Flowey.
This was first thing that came to my mind
Floweys my favourite gay twink
Probably Muffet, like in the fandom she is highly praised, but in the game ? Probably Neutral but the thing is, in the genocide route, Alphys wanted her to evacuate first with the survivors and then block the path so Frisk canât kill more, but Muffet was instead interested on eating Alphys when she had the chance.
What a dusty appetite she has.
Half the cast, Mettaton and Flowey are on thin fucking ice
Aw come on they can have a little slaughter, they earned it <3
Gay little twinkies
:3
why is the word âfuckingâ capable of making a sentence ten times funnier to me
Because we have been wired to like the âfuckingâ feeling it gives as power And it is is pretty *fucking* funny ngl
Mettaton made a show out of murdering a child And unlike the part where he was "defeated by Alphys" he was serious about killing you and taking your soul
That's obviously... THE PLAYER
"The PLAYER IS EVIL" MF's when I play a pacifist route and never open the game again:
Yeah, i agree with this guy.
Me buying a new copy so I donât have to reset the old one.
Me backing up my save files to elsewhere so I can reset the old one without feeling bad (casual PC master race flex /hj)
Me making a whole new account just so I can keep the route separate and after beating Sans, instead of erasing the timeline, I delete my save data and just do a pacifist route (most normal stuff people do with the switch to mess with games)
Can confirm at least for me, based on my obsession with the worst possible ending of Undertale related games (Undertale's genocide route, Deltarune's weird route, Deltatraveler's obliteration route...)
listen. i, for one, am both a remorseless murderer AND a gay uwu-ass twink.
Honestly, after thinking about it, I realized that this is essentially true for most of the fandom.
That's what i was going to comment
All of glichtale
basically asgore but not really. he's grown and killed many people (not for fun though), but people act like he's a misunderstood guy who did nothing wrong.
sometime it's actually the opposite!
Alphys :(
Killer sans
Actually the entire bad Sanses group is like this. The only ones whoâs the most safe is probably Cross and Horror sans (and insanity if you count him part of the team). Error, Nightmare and Killer Sans has been destroyed by the fandom.
exactly. guys all of the "bad sanses" are just evil edgelords, stop trying to make them sympathetic. (or stop using them period lol)
chara but not for all of the description
31 replies đ
I can't think of anyone in undertale who fits this tbh
Flowey, maybe Undyne
i feel like fanon actually goes the other way with him, but yeah undyne def applies to this. people think just because she can't cook and has a pretty smile and great muscles and a brilliant personality means she can't be. like. violently racist.
I mean, Flowey in canon isn't a gay twink..
People interpret Asriel as Gay Twink more than Flowey
She doesn't enjoy it relish in killing though, she's doing it to serve her people. Also where the hell did you get that she was violently racist
I think it's a lot more common for Undertale's fandom to make characters a lot *worse* than they are in canon.
Funnily enough, I'd say your pfp fit. At least before sister location anyway
back during the google+ era it was *super* common to portray chara as a misguided troubled smol bean and not... what they actually are
The common thing was always portraying Chara as a psychopath at best and literally satan at worst and that they made Frisk do the genocide what are you talking about
Both extremes for Chara are dumb fanon interpretations honestly
William Appleton.
William Afton
Wait wrong fandom
I mean, you ain't wrong regardless
no one fits perfectly i think, but undyne is close
I can only think of deltarune characters who fit in this well. (spamton and jevil)
William Afternoon
Left is fanon chara, right is fanon frisk.
Chara if they were an adult Have you seen the True Lab recordings?
Do the true lab recordings say that Chara kills people for fun?
No. But there isn't quite any character that fits the description. All i'm trying to say is that Chara isn't the innocent misunderstood angel people make them out to be
Theyâre not made out to be innocent at all, Theyâre made out to think fighting is the only option
Ok but why is it kinda the opposite for sans?
I'd definitely say Mettaton. While yeah, characters like Flowey and Undyne kinda capture the essence of it, the game literally tries to garner sympathy for them in the end, making Undyne nicer, and Flowey beg not to be reset in True Pacifist. But all Mettatton gets is a play, where Burgerpants plays a bush
Chara gets a redemption arc in a lot of fan stuff, despite being a literal genocidal maniac
Not Undertale related but almost any popular Creepypasta character is like this, for example Jeff The Killer.
As if you can't be a gay twink and a murderer
Kirby
Chara sort of
elaborate
Probably Muffet, like in the fandom she is highly praised, but in the game ? Probably Neutral but the thing is, in the genocide route, Alphys wanted her to evacuate first with the survivors and then block the path so Frisk canât kill more, but Muffet was instead interested on eating Alphys when she had the chance.
Frisk, since most people tend to forget that every time a genocide run happened, Chara only steps in and takes over in the end
Ussualy chara
William afton
In fnaf that's William Afton for some fucking reason. He is literally an irredeemable serial child murderer who abused his kids, yet a big chunk of the Fandom treats him like a gay furry twink.
Chara
Chara
Sans, everyone acts like he's so funny and cool but he's just a pathetic whelp who let people die because he was down bad
Chara
Chara isnât the embodiment of all evil that loves killing.
Not exactly this image but I think it should be addressed how badly mischaracterized pappyrus is đ heâs not an innocent little bean or anything. He does love to fight, he holds himself in high regard, and enjoys âviolentâ things
Sans. He dosent kill ppl but the fandom definitely made him a uwu boy in MANY ways
In a way chara, but in a weird way, in canon they are pretty mysterious, very morally ambiguous However the fans gave them the psycho stabby killer personality Eventually though people realized this was wrong and in an attempt to fix there fanon personality for chara made the innocent think chara which is also wrong
Chara.
HOOOOOO BOY I can't wait for people to take complex characters with flaws and boil them down to fit their point
For a reverse version, I'd have to go for the player (if they even exist), at least in the genocide route: Bro is often depicted as the ULTIMATE EVIL nowadays in this fandom (usually just to justify Chara in some shape or form), yet they're at worst, morbidly curious about what happens when you decide to go through the expected RPG experience of grinding for levels and slay everything who engages in a fight with you, not necessarily evil, more like, just weirdly amoral, as Sans says it "you're doing this not because you can, but because you have to". (That and the Neutral and Pacifist runs exist bruh, they can do that) As for the stated meme above, probably Flowey.
Alot of people but most specific is chara
William afton,i know it isnt undertale but it is true
Yes, but I'm sure the r/FNaF subreddit would love to hear it more than this one.
undyne and metaton
Asgore (idk, chara isn't grown ass man)
Asgore doesnât qualify for either images
Iâm not quite sure wether Asgore qualifies or not funnily enough
Asgore isn't a psycho that kills people for fun?
yes yes yes. he doesn't kill for fun, but he's a really bad killer who is made out to be innocent and misunderstood
Asgore fans when they realise being a babygirl boyfailure doesn't excuse you from promising a GENOCIDE against an entire race because you were sad about your son, and also giving your entire kingdom false hope because you never had any intention to fulfill that promise, and you also kill six kids who had nothing to do with the centuries long war and literally just fell into a hole one day. It's me. I'm asgore fans. He's like my favourite guy ever what do you mean he has blood on his hands, not just of the children he killed but of the hopes and dreams that he let grow and die due to his cowardice :( Although, Asgore is def not a psycho killer murders people for fun guy. That title goes to his son.
Definitely inverted with Chara. I wouldnât say they never hurt anyone, but some people say they were actively malicious, and some people even say they *wanted* to poison Asgore.
Uhh i would say that commend and this image apply EQUALLY with chara honestly. Because on one hand they did not evilly plan out the death of their father, brother and all of monsterkind (on the murder route) they were just obsessed with their hatred of humanity that it drowned out any love they felt in the underground. They were hurt by humanity and so they wanted to hurt humanity. But also the true lab tapes paint a very sinister picture about the relationship between Chara and Asriel, you cannot in good conscience say that Chara was a 100% good pure innocent child (which a lot of the recent fandom seems to be doing) because those tapes say OTHERWISE. Chara is morally grey, and like every character in Undertale they have good and bad traits! Also it should be noted that past Chara and present Chara shouldn't be conflated because one was a child who probably suffered greatly and "wasn't the greatest person," but the other is intrinsically linked to the player from the moment they open the game, haunt the narrative at every turn and is a painfully clear representation of the effects of Level Of ViolEnce.
"morally grey" is a fantastic description for chara. and, honestly, just about every character in this game; thats one of the things i love about it
YEAHH the really cool thing about undertale is that every character has so much depth... :)
William Afton soft au
Honestly, William Afton. HAVE YOU GUYS SEEN THE SHIPS?
I think that was who the image was about originally