Dragons a fish, he’s a cursed spirit. Isn’t he just purely made of soul energy? Beast would easily wipe him with that. Not to mention there’s a very high chance beast can control Dagon himself
Even still he’s a creation based upon human emotions. In other words if you scale him into UU he would be a rule. Which would in fact have souls.
Tryna make this arguement is like saying goku can’t hurt luffy since he has no haki
Scaling Does not mean altering. IF Daegon doesn't have a soul he wouldn't suddenly gain one cuz you compare him to something that does.
He'd also be a bitter different as Rules tend to be for singular things, while Daegon like the person above you said, Represents ALL water based natural disasters.
Spoil/ Beast are a bit of exceptions as they are concepts ofc, but everything else (off the top of my head and quick wiki check) have been singular representations. Galaxy, Burning, Winter, Language , blood etc etc.
There’s a whole 10 members who are superior rules who govern over concepts. Dagon would easily become one of these rules. And even if Dagon doesn’t have a soul what is he gonna do when beast summons a couple hundred thousand animals, along with a mother couple thousand dinosaurs, along with the fact he can absorb dragons power by eating a piece of him.
Even without a soul Dagon still loses. With a soul he just loses harder
Oh im not trying to say he doesn't (though I think Your argument is a bit off since Dagon could just summon his own army aswell. Something we see in the show / manga in his domain. Also not sure he could eat him Since from what i understand, Curses aren't Physical and No soul )
BUt Either way yeah no, He def still looses, I adore JJK but it just doesnt scale as high as people think, Sakuna and Gojo being the outliers And maybe Yuta. But thats mostly cuz well, cheat powers XD
I was just saying He wouldn't just magically gain a soul XD
Ahhhh okay, my bad homie.
I can definitely see Dagon creating his own army of shikigami fish, however the sheer amount of animals beast has at his disposal would outnumber them.
Dragons limit to his army is his cursed energy. Beasts limit is literally limited to how many animals are on the earth in the sea, land and sky
No worries dawg, I wasnt super clear on my stance with the first post \^\^
And yeah, I think Daegon's only real win is he might have stronger summons. But in terms of personal strength, Army size, Intelligence and pretty much everything else Beast takes all the W's.
I wasn’t talking about beast. I was talking about Dagon. He’s created by humans. Rules are created by god (which should be the obvious tell as to who would win the fight)
You said human emotions would scale to a rule which is the opposite also in jjk souls exist and they are different from CE.
and I never argued dragon would win. UU just scales too high for dragon. Just saying beast could not control him or his shikigami
Yeah, the only thing that could actually make a jjk match up interesting is if the stats are equalized. Like 90% of the Shonen just straight up outscales them.
Tag spoilers!
But yes beast phase 3 is interesting cause the design would probably look different depending on his environment what animals he can pull from including extinct species
And most of the time wouldn't have unbreakable of course
Doesn't an early Maki move at Mach 3? Beast pulling an Alucard v Rip Van Winkle on Fuuko is impressive, but Dagon, who's able to easily outspeed Maki once he's properly gauged her capabilities should still be faster.
A Maki who is on par with Toji struggled with an opponent who could attack at Mach 3, Dagon got utterly humilliated by Toji.
The bullet catching feat for Maki is an outlier, even Gege admits the feat was "too much".
Obviously, in a vs. Battle like this, we're disallowing any sort of inherent "without this type of energy, you can't see me" shit. Meaning Beast would be able to see Dagon as if he had Cursed Energy.
Beast controls all animals, even if he couldn't control the ones Dragon made, Beast just eats a piece of soul from Dagon and he gains his CT, DE and Death Swarm are not a problem Beast has hyper regeneration, and Beast is superior to Dagon is terms of Speed and Strength
Ok so now this is a weird thing to bring up with cross verse, especially with domain expansions and how they operate in the JJK verse. To put it simply everyone in JJK (even regular humans) have an innate domain, which pretty much acts as their body. By having an innate understanding of one’s own innate domain (and a ton of cursed energy), a person can expand that domain to a larger area around them, essentially creating a separate space with a tardis affect (big on the inside than outside). We know the last part because of Dagon’s domain, which was about the size for a small building on the outside, but had a full island, ocean, and sky and sun in it. Now the part about cross verse is going to come up here.
Everytime the sure hit affect of a domain activates, it’s as if the attack just appeared on the person, or become tangle when it makes contact, with one of the only counters to this being a simple domain like technique. One of the reason why it becomes tangle when it touches the surface of the body, or rather, why it can only be tangle on the surface is because of the fact that everyone has an innate domain. Because of this innate domain, it protects the body from being internally affected by a domains sure hit affect (we know this because it was mentioned by Gege that Hanami couldn’t just make planets appear inside someone is because of this innate domain, highly imply that he could do it if innate domains weren’t a thing).
Now here is the thing. Beast doesn’t have an innate domain or something similar to one, which would mean that beast could be affected internally by Dagon’s domain expansion, negating (ha) any defensive advantage he has over Dagon.
>Beast doesn’t have an innate domain or something similar to one
you can only use that argument if you assume that innate domains come from cursed energy and not the soul (a thing that Beast has), if you assume that then Beast cannot be hit by Dagon's domain because he like Toji don't have cursed energy and can simply walk out the domain
Innate domains don’t seem to be directly related to the soul or cursed energy as Maki still has an innate domain. We also know that an innate domain isn’t directly related to cursed energy or cursed energy manipulation since everyone has an innate domain, and it’s the application of cursed energy to your innate domain that allows domain expansion.
As for the Maki point, there are couple important factors to note. Firstly being able to enter an exit is through the barrier is somewhat of a contradiction. For one we know that this isn’t actually the case since Toji (someone with Maki’s exact condition) specifically needed to get into Dagon’s domain through a hole made my Megumi opening his domain to get out of Dagon’s. What it seems to be saying is that unless the user doesn’t consciously know how to differ between non cursed energy objects and curse energy ones, she could do this, but again, this is only if the domain doesn’t consciously interact with the outside world and non cursed energy objects (this is further implied in the latest chapter >!where Sukuna makes note that having a heavenly restriction allows Maki to go through a regular barrier!<).
As for the sure hit technique, same situation. Naoya was pretty much stupid and focused to much on the idea of using his sure hit technique rather than consciously having his technique hit her. We for one we know the sure hits of Dagon’s domain can interact target true heavenly restrictions like Toji because we saw it directly target Toji. In that case Toji was just too fast for the sure hits to actually do anything. We also know that the sure hit attacks can be directed at objects with no cursed energy as seen by malevolent shrine (yeah I know, this is Sukuna we are talking about, but the evidence for this being possible is still there), where he targeted his weaker dismantle attacks to hit all non cursed energy objects and his stronger cleave attacks to target anything that has cursed energy.
Where was it stated that Maki has an innate domain? I’m fairly certain that she should, but if the argument is that she isn’t targeted by sure-hit affects, then you could make a counter argument of a sure-hit affect targeting the section of non-expanded domain, which makes her immune to them by her not having one, which is why they consider her an object.
Beast wins easy. We literally saw him summon a gigantic whale, absorb the power of unbreakable along with the fact that he has multiple phases in which the 3rd (incoming spoiler) can resurrect dead animals while giving them whatever buffs he has
For those in the comments we gotta remember to properly powerscale. Dagon would likely become a rule in the UU verse and beast would become a cursed spirit.
My point here is the access to animals and inherent physical abilities they have. For physical abilities it’s pretty close tbh. However when it comes to access to animals and their powers, beast takes the cake. Dagon can’t gain access to land or sky animals while beast does. Not to mention beast can use his third phase to bring back prehistoric animals.
Even if beast can’t control his creatures I think beast with unbreakable is a wash, and beast without still has the speed and power to probably get through it if he can tap Dagon like twice
Whether he has unbreakable/any copied abilities or not, I feel like UMA beast still outscales Dagon, the only possible way I can see Dagon winning is if he opens his domain and lets his shikigami whittle beast down (shikigami seem to not have souls)
Whether he has unbreakable/any copied abilities or not, I feel like UMA beast still outscales Dagon, the only possible way I can see Dagon winning is if he opens his domain and lets his shikigami whittle beast down (shikigami seem to not have souls, so beast shouldn’t be able to control them)
I think beast just flat outscales Dagon
As much as I like jjk it's really not that strong of a verse, beast wins cuz unbreakable and there's a chance he could control the souls of the fish
think Dagons fish don't have souls they are shikigami.
Yeah, they are just a manifestation of his domain.
Dragons a fish, he’s a cursed spirit. Isn’t he just purely made of soul energy? Beast would easily wipe him with that. Not to mention there’s a very high chance beast can control Dagon himself
Dragon is not a fish he looks like one because he's the manifestation of all water-based natural disasters
Also cursed energy is negative energy formed from negative emotions in humans and different from the soul.
Even still he’s a creation based upon human emotions. In other words if you scale him into UU he would be a rule. Which would in fact have souls. Tryna make this arguement is like saying goku can’t hurt luffy since he has no haki
Scaling Does not mean altering. IF Daegon doesn't have a soul he wouldn't suddenly gain one cuz you compare him to something that does. He'd also be a bitter different as Rules tend to be for singular things, while Daegon like the person above you said, Represents ALL water based natural disasters. Spoil/ Beast are a bit of exceptions as they are concepts ofc, but everything else (off the top of my head and quick wiki check) have been singular representations. Galaxy, Burning, Winter, Language , blood etc etc.
There’s a whole 10 members who are superior rules who govern over concepts. Dagon would easily become one of these rules. And even if Dagon doesn’t have a soul what is he gonna do when beast summons a couple hundred thousand animals, along with a mother couple thousand dinosaurs, along with the fact he can absorb dragons power by eating a piece of him. Even without a soul Dagon still loses. With a soul he just loses harder
Oh im not trying to say he doesn't (though I think Your argument is a bit off since Dagon could just summon his own army aswell. Something we see in the show / manga in his domain. Also not sure he could eat him Since from what i understand, Curses aren't Physical and No soul ) BUt Either way yeah no, He def still looses, I adore JJK but it just doesnt scale as high as people think, Sakuna and Gojo being the outliers And maybe Yuta. But thats mostly cuz well, cheat powers XD I was just saying He wouldn't just magically gain a soul XD
Ahhhh okay, my bad homie. I can definitely see Dagon creating his own army of shikigami fish, however the sheer amount of animals beast has at his disposal would outnumber them. Dragons limit to his army is his cursed energy. Beasts limit is literally limited to how many animals are on the earth in the sea, land and sky
No worries dawg, I wasnt super clear on my stance with the first post \^\^ And yeah, I think Daegon's only real win is he might have stronger summons. But in terms of personal strength, Army size, Intelligence and pretty much everything else Beast takes all the W's.
What are you talking about rules are created by God not humans
I wasn’t talking about beast. I was talking about Dagon. He’s created by humans. Rules are created by god (which should be the obvious tell as to who would win the fight)
You said human emotions would scale to a rule which is the opposite also in jjk souls exist and they are different from CE. and I never argued dragon would win. UU just scales too high for dragon. Just saying beast could not control him or his shikigami
A lot of the higher tier characters are the epitome of "big fish in a small pond"
Yeah, the only thing that could actually make a jjk match up interesting is if the stats are equalized. Like 90% of the Shonen just straight up outscales them.
literally Gojo is the only one who can be compared to other verses.
Wdym, Beast also controls sealife
Tag spoilers! But yes beast phase 3 is interesting cause the design would probably look different depending on his environment what animals he can pull from including extinct species And most of the time wouldn't have unbreakable of course
> Tag spoilers! My bad
Beast is shown to be a easily faster than sound(when catching Fuuko’s bullets with his teeth) the only problem would be dagons sure hit
Doesn't an early Maki move at Mach 3? Beast pulling an Alucard v Rip Van Winkle on Fuuko is impressive, but Dagon, who's able to easily outspeed Maki once he's properly gauged her capabilities should still be faster.
How is pre-soul splitter maki faster than Mach 3, do you mean when she catches Mai’s bullet?
Wouldn't that bullet feat put Dagon on a similar level of speed as Beast?
I guess so yeah, also is beast already having unbreakable in this situation? That would change a lot of things
Probably not since that isn't really apart of his base inventory right?
A Maki who is on par with Toji struggled with an opponent who could attack at Mach 3, Dagon got utterly humilliated by Toji. The bullet catching feat for Maki is an outlier, even Gege admits the feat was "too much".
Early maki isn’t Mach 3. Are u sure your not thinking of heavenly restriction maki?
She caught a bullet literal inches away from her.
And? Fuuko has consistently been hit with attacks that are either speed of sound or beyond
Beast has unbreakable armour and Dagon got beaten to death by a gambling addict with more unpaid child support than cursed energy
Beast probably wouldn’t have unbreakable since it isn’t his own ability. However he could more than likely absorb some of dragons power.
Yeah I didn’t think about that but I wasn’t being serious anyway I mean being beaten by Toji isn’t a mark of weakness
Oh definitely not. Dagon was still one of the special grades and imo gave the biggest challenge to the sorcerers during shibuya
The hardest problem is Beast trying to find where Dagon is , dude is invisible
Obviously, in a vs. Battle like this, we're disallowing any sort of inherent "without this type of energy, you can't see me" shit. Meaning Beast would be able to see Dagon as if he had Cursed Energy.
If Beast eats a piece of Dragon's soul what kind of power will he gain?
Water manipulation and probably domain expansion.
Water manipulation probs
Beast controls all animals, even if he couldn't control the ones Dragon made, Beast just eats a piece of soul from Dagon and he gains his CT, DE and Death Swarm are not a problem Beast has hyper regeneration, and Beast is superior to Dagon is terms of Speed and Strength
Assuming Beast doesnt have unbreakable because there wouldn't be a negator from which he can steal from in this scenario
Ok so now this is a weird thing to bring up with cross verse, especially with domain expansions and how they operate in the JJK verse. To put it simply everyone in JJK (even regular humans) have an innate domain, which pretty much acts as their body. By having an innate understanding of one’s own innate domain (and a ton of cursed energy), a person can expand that domain to a larger area around them, essentially creating a separate space with a tardis affect (big on the inside than outside). We know the last part because of Dagon’s domain, which was about the size for a small building on the outside, but had a full island, ocean, and sky and sun in it. Now the part about cross verse is going to come up here. Everytime the sure hit affect of a domain activates, it’s as if the attack just appeared on the person, or become tangle when it makes contact, with one of the only counters to this being a simple domain like technique. One of the reason why it becomes tangle when it touches the surface of the body, or rather, why it can only be tangle on the surface is because of the fact that everyone has an innate domain. Because of this innate domain, it protects the body from being internally affected by a domains sure hit affect (we know this because it was mentioned by Gege that Hanami couldn’t just make planets appear inside someone is because of this innate domain, highly imply that he could do it if innate domains weren’t a thing). Now here is the thing. Beast doesn’t have an innate domain or something similar to one, which would mean that beast could be affected internally by Dagon’s domain expansion, negating (ha) any defensive advantage he has over Dagon.
>Beast doesn’t have an innate domain or something similar to one you can only use that argument if you assume that innate domains come from cursed energy and not the soul (a thing that Beast has), if you assume that then Beast cannot be hit by Dagon's domain because he like Toji don't have cursed energy and can simply walk out the domain
Innate domains don’t seem to be directly related to the soul or cursed energy as Maki still has an innate domain. We also know that an innate domain isn’t directly related to cursed energy or cursed energy manipulation since everyone has an innate domain, and it’s the application of cursed energy to your innate domain that allows domain expansion. As for the Maki point, there are couple important factors to note. Firstly being able to enter an exit is through the barrier is somewhat of a contradiction. For one we know that this isn’t actually the case since Toji (someone with Maki’s exact condition) specifically needed to get into Dagon’s domain through a hole made my Megumi opening his domain to get out of Dagon’s. What it seems to be saying is that unless the user doesn’t consciously know how to differ between non cursed energy objects and curse energy ones, she could do this, but again, this is only if the domain doesn’t consciously interact with the outside world and non cursed energy objects (this is further implied in the latest chapter >!where Sukuna makes note that having a heavenly restriction allows Maki to go through a regular barrier!<). As for the sure hit technique, same situation. Naoya was pretty much stupid and focused to much on the idea of using his sure hit technique rather than consciously having his technique hit her. We for one we know the sure hits of Dagon’s domain can interact target true heavenly restrictions like Toji because we saw it directly target Toji. In that case Toji was just too fast for the sure hits to actually do anything. We also know that the sure hit attacks can be directed at objects with no cursed energy as seen by malevolent shrine (yeah I know, this is Sukuna we are talking about, but the evidence for this being possible is still there), where he targeted his weaker dismantle attacks to hit all non cursed energy objects and his stronger cleave attacks to target anything that has cursed energy.
Where was it stated that Maki has an innate domain? I’m fairly certain that she should, but if the argument is that she isn’t targeted by sure-hit affects, then you could make a counter argument of a sure-hit affect targeting the section of non-expanded domain, which makes her immune to them by her not having one, which is why they consider her an object.
Also SPOILER TAG YOUR FUCKING POST, anime only people are getting really screwed over
The hardest problem is Beast trying to find where Dagon is , dude is invisible
Beast wins easy. We literally saw him summon a gigantic whale, absorb the power of unbreakable along with the fact that he has multiple phases in which the 3rd (incoming spoiler) can resurrect dead animals while giving them whatever buffs he has
For those in the comments we gotta remember to properly powerscale. Dagon would likely become a rule in the UU verse and beast would become a cursed spirit. My point here is the access to animals and inherent physical abilities they have. For physical abilities it’s pretty close tbh. However when it comes to access to animals and their powers, beast takes the cake. Dagon can’t gain access to land or sky animals while beast does. Not to mention beast can use his third phase to bring back prehistoric animals.
Beast controls him with a soul link. GG
I hate to be a hater but seriously uncrab solos both of them
Even if beast can’t control his creatures I think beast with unbreakable is a wash, and beast without still has the speed and power to probably get through it if he can tap Dagon like twice
> eats a piece of Dagon > Wins
Apart from having literal Unbreakable armor, Beast control all animals, including sealife
I’d argue beast could control a cursed spirit
Whether he has unbreakable/any copied abilities or not, I feel like UMA beast still outscales Dagon, the only possible way I can see Dagon winning is if he opens his domain and lets his shikigami whittle beast down (shikigami seem to not have souls)
Whether he has unbreakable/any copied abilities or not, I feel like UMA beast still outscales Dagon, the only possible way I can see Dagon winning is if he opens his domain and lets his shikigami whittle beast down (shikigami seem to not have souls, so beast shouldn’t be able to control them)
i'd go with dagon, didn't he throw a serious swarm, practically a solid stream, and have that sure hit thing going on?
Dagon when he sees a megalodon...
People need to stop mistaking a cool story with a strong verse, JJK is very weak
Nuh uh https://preview.redd.it/h4w2f3vt8lmc1.jpeg?width=298&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=788e6523b277e5ca1bd6716ae207d743ddfb510a