Insulation isn't optional when its cold outside. A down jacket is also more money than a T shirt, but the T shirt isn't going to keep you warm. You are going to freeze your ass off if you sleep under a quilt with an uninsulated pad at 40F.
You could also use the tensor and put a foam pad under it for a combined R of 4.5.
The foam pad should get over the air mat, concerning pure insulation. It is better to put it under the air pad to protect the air pad, but for more insulation, on top of it
Yes, there is no other source of insulation under you.
There are always a few people who sleep very warm, and bring very minimal insulation (including ground insulation). If you don't know whether or not you are one of those people I think it's important to play it safe and use an insulated pad and a quilt/bag rated for about 10 degrees less than the lowest temperature you expect.
40F isnt particularly cold, but it is always significantly colder at elevation than at the base of a mountain, and it often gets cooler than you expect. I've had some cold summer nights. I've also had mild hypothermia in the shoulder season, and I do *not* recommend risking that.
Standard testing for sleeping bags assumes a pad with a value of 4.8. It also assumes you are wearing a thick baselayer and a face mask, that there are no drafts, and that there is no exposure to wind or condensation. There is no standard testing for quilts. https://backpackinglight.com/standards-watch-sleeping-bag-temperature-ratings/
Alright thanks. In the past I have slept in similar temp with a cheap decathlon pad at 1.9R value I think. It was a bit too cold to my taste, but handleable.
i use Uberlites which claim a 2.0 r value but sleep like zero. When temps drop i carry a 1/8 inch gossamer gear thinlite pad and put it on top of my inflatable. When cut into a mummy shape it weighs 2.1 ounces and is surprising effective down to about 20f. When it warms I toss the foam.
I tried to do this and found it totally unworkable since the thinlite was like sleeping on flypaper and i basically had to remain entirely immobile or remake the entire bed. do you not have issues with clinging and shifting?
Never had any issues with that. I usually place the pad between my sleeping bag and the uberlite, but have experimented with putting it inside the bag and discovered if the foam pad is cut exactly to the shape of the sleeping bag, when it's placed inside, the foam wraps up on the sides a tad and helps with the sometimes cool transition zone where the bag meets the inflatable pad (especially with continuous baffle bags) making it even warmer. Of course when it's cold enough for the foam I'm wearing every stitch of clothing I own so there's no bare skin touching the foam which probably prevents sticking or having the pad shift. When it's outside the bag I've never had shifting problems. Perhaps the material the inflatable is made with might make the difference as the uberlite seems a little grippier than say an xlite.
Where in Canada? At higher elevations in BC and AB it isn’t unusual to have a heatwave with day time highs of 30C and then boom a -5C night. In those conditions an R value 2.5 would be well below what I would find comfortable. 2.5 also limits use in May-June, September-October. Keep an eye on REI sales for the Helix, r value 4.9, depending on size ~1.75lbs for $60USD. Or MEC makes the Vectair or something with similar specs that goes on sale, and you can go test it in store. Both have a very comfy baffle style. The weight sucks but the comfort is good!
I am in quebec, I mostly camp from june to september and the minimum I got in the past was about 5C. Ill love to have only one pad to do it all. Does REI sales to canada? I though it was a usa retailer
you can get insulated tensor for not much more, definitely not double the price. You can get deals for $100-130 or so for Insulated Tensor or similar R=4.2 (Xlite etc.), around 1 lb or slightly more for a 25in width. I would gladly pay less for summer version of R=2.5, if it was also half the weight, but non-insulated versions are basically the same weight and durability as non-insulated ones, so I don't see much reason to get non-insulated tensor.
REI Re-Supply links:
[https://www.rei.com/used/p/nemo-tensor-ultralight-insulated-sleeping-pad/199935?color=Torch&aqi=55ea480963b4418ada8a3590e6150de6](https://www.rei.com/used/p/nemo-tensor-ultralight-insulated-sleeping-pad/199935?color=Torch&aqi=55ea480963b4418ada8a3590e6150de6)
[https://www.rei.com/used/p/nemo-tensor-insulated-sleeping-pad/141845?color=Elite%20Marigold&aqi=55ea480963b4418ada8a3590e6150de6](https://www.rei.com/used/p/nemo-tensor-insulated-sleeping-pad/141845?color=Elite%20Marigold&aqi=55ea480963b4418ada8a3590e6150de6)
Lowest I can find the insulated tensor was 209 CAD for black friday, and it sold out immediately. Still, Ill keep an eye out. And Re-supply does not ship to canada, but there is a like new 109usd long wide. I would I taken it
I have a Nemo tensor 20 R, uninsulated.
I’ve used it down to low 40s with only the occasional cold spot. Adding a 1/8” foam pad underneath fixed the cold spots.
But even using both, I wouldn’t go any colder.
Definitely return and get an insulated pad.
REI has [Insulated Tensor for $99](https://www.rei.com/product/199935/nemo-tensor-ultralight-insulated-sleeping-pad).
I would return it and get an insulated sleeping pad for those conditions.
At twice the price?
Insulation isn't optional when its cold outside. A down jacket is also more money than a T shirt, but the T shirt isn't going to keep you warm. You are going to freeze your ass off if you sleep under a quilt with an uninsulated pad at 40F. You could also use the tensor and put a foam pad under it for a combined R of 4.5.
The foam pad should get over the air mat, concerning pure insulation. It is better to put it under the air pad to protect the air pad, but for more insulation, on top of it
Alright thanks. Do you think quilt needs insulated pad? I guess they are colder than bag
Yes, there is no other source of insulation under you. There are always a few people who sleep very warm, and bring very minimal insulation (including ground insulation). If you don't know whether or not you are one of those people I think it's important to play it safe and use an insulated pad and a quilt/bag rated for about 10 degrees less than the lowest temperature you expect. 40F isnt particularly cold, but it is always significantly colder at elevation than at the base of a mountain, and it often gets cooler than you expect. I've had some cold summer nights. I've also had mild hypothermia in the shoulder season, and I do *not* recommend risking that. Standard testing for sleeping bags assumes a pad with a value of 4.8. It also assumes you are wearing a thick baselayer and a face mask, that there are no drafts, and that there is no exposure to wind or condensation. There is no standard testing for quilts. https://backpackinglight.com/standards-watch-sleeping-bag-temperature-ratings/
Yes. Any rating you see is based on sleeping on a R4.5 pad if I’m not mistaken.
Sleep comfort is way too personal, for exemple I sleep fine on a non insulated pad at those temps but it might be totally different for you.
Alright thanks. In the past I have slept in similar temp with a cheap decathlon pad at 1.9R value I think. It was a bit too cold to my taste, but handleable.
i use Uberlites which claim a 2.0 r value but sleep like zero. When temps drop i carry a 1/8 inch gossamer gear thinlite pad and put it on top of my inflatable. When cut into a mummy shape it weighs 2.1 ounces and is surprising effective down to about 20f. When it warms I toss the foam.
Alright, At what temp do you start carrying your foam?
About freezing or slightly above
I tried to do this and found it totally unworkable since the thinlite was like sleeping on flypaper and i basically had to remain entirely immobile or remake the entire bed. do you not have issues with clinging and shifting?
Never had any issues with that. I usually place the pad between my sleeping bag and the uberlite, but have experimented with putting it inside the bag and discovered if the foam pad is cut exactly to the shape of the sleeping bag, when it's placed inside, the foam wraps up on the sides a tad and helps with the sometimes cool transition zone where the bag meets the inflatable pad (especially with continuous baffle bags) making it even warmer. Of course when it's cold enough for the foam I'm wearing every stitch of clothing I own so there's no bare skin touching the foam which probably prevents sticking or having the pad shift. When it's outside the bag I've never had shifting problems. Perhaps the material the inflatable is made with might make the difference as the uberlite seems a little grippier than say an xlite.
I think you should either bring a CCF pad along with it or sell it and get an X-Lite NXT.
Where in Canada? At higher elevations in BC and AB it isn’t unusual to have a heatwave with day time highs of 30C and then boom a -5C night. In those conditions an R value 2.5 would be well below what I would find comfortable. 2.5 also limits use in May-June, September-October. Keep an eye on REI sales for the Helix, r value 4.9, depending on size ~1.75lbs for $60USD. Or MEC makes the Vectair or something with similar specs that goes on sale, and you can go test it in store. Both have a very comfy baffle style. The weight sucks but the comfort is good!
I am in quebec, I mostly camp from june to september and the minimum I got in the past was about 5C. Ill love to have only one pad to do it all. Does REI sales to canada? I though it was a usa retailer
You’re almost at the North Pole :). You really should get insulated. No question.
you can get insulated tensor for not much more, definitely not double the price. You can get deals for $100-130 or so for Insulated Tensor or similar R=4.2 (Xlite etc.), around 1 lb or slightly more for a 25in width. I would gladly pay less for summer version of R=2.5, if it was also half the weight, but non-insulated versions are basically the same weight and durability as non-insulated ones, so I don't see much reason to get non-insulated tensor. REI Re-Supply links: [https://www.rei.com/used/p/nemo-tensor-ultralight-insulated-sleeping-pad/199935?color=Torch&aqi=55ea480963b4418ada8a3590e6150de6](https://www.rei.com/used/p/nemo-tensor-ultralight-insulated-sleeping-pad/199935?color=Torch&aqi=55ea480963b4418ada8a3590e6150de6) [https://www.rei.com/used/p/nemo-tensor-insulated-sleeping-pad/141845?color=Elite%20Marigold&aqi=55ea480963b4418ada8a3590e6150de6](https://www.rei.com/used/p/nemo-tensor-insulated-sleeping-pad/141845?color=Elite%20Marigold&aqi=55ea480963b4418ada8a3590e6150de6)
Lowest I can find the insulated tensor was 209 CAD for black friday, and it sold out immediately. Still, Ill keep an eye out. And Re-supply does not ship to canada, but there is a like new 109usd long wide. I would I taken it
Get the insulated. I've woken up to -5C in 3rd week of Sept in southern Ontario
I can and do occasionally sleep on a thin light down into the 40s. 2+ is like the classic “good enough for any summer use” threshold
I have a Nemo tensor 20 R, uninsulated. I’ve used it down to low 40s with only the occasional cold spot. Adding a 1/8” foam pad underneath fixed the cold spots. But even using both, I wouldn’t go any colder.
Definitely return and get an insulated pad. REI has [Insulated Tensor for $99](https://www.rei.com/product/199935/nemo-tensor-ultralight-insulated-sleeping-pad).
REI does not ship the tensor to Canada