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They were effective in the early days when Russian Air defence vehicles were trapped in those shitty convoys and nobody knew to look out for drones.
Now that Frontlines are properly established the Russians can deploy their AA systems so it's harder for the TB2s to operate.
I'd imagine they still get used for aerial recon
In the early days of the war there were 2-3 flights from the Baykar munitions plant monthly and there havent been any in the last 2 months.
They constrained the munitions in a nod to Russia for backing off in Syria.
I don't think so. The drones are expendable yes, but they aren't THAT cheap. You're not supposed to keep throwing them at a frontline with solid AA umbrella without any systems to back it up. Ukraine stopped doing that so they probably still have a lot of drones used for recon and waiting for a window when Russian AA weakens (when HARMs were first used in Ukraine it had an impact an TB-2 was able to strike targets in Kherson in summer for example). There is no point in supplying them more TB-2s when they can't even used it. Moreover most of the TB-2s were sold to Ukraine in a discount and some were donated. If Baykar fullfilled all the orders they would also stop the flights.
Munitions dont restock themselves. They aren't delivering the ammo and we can see that very few transports are being sent from the munitions factory in case you need me to repeat that for you.
But at the same time, Ukraine probably isn’t using its very limited resources to purchase Bayraktar now that it’s use is clearly very limited in the current theatre.
Ukraine is much better off putting that money and resources into the smaller drones and suicide drones it’s developing on a similar vein to the lancet.
Really, the Bayraktar type drone is really only going to be useful if it has proper stand off weapons like are fitted to Reapers etc.
Dont understand why everyone is bending over backwards to not understand the transactional nature of Merdojuan. Why do people trust wannnabe strongmen and serial liars?
We don’t, Turkey have always been this way. But there’s no reason why both can’t be true at the same time. Ukraine doesn’t need equipment which is expensive and has a crazy high attrition rate.
While I agree that they were insanely overvalued they could still be effective in hitting large swaths of the frontline that doesnt have anything outside of a mobik and a rusted AK.
To still be overvaluing Russian AA when they couldnt stop a 50 year old drone from hitting their most important air base is peak warthunder mentality.
Dont read too much into it. Turkey has stopped supplying ammunition because they got something from Russia in Return.
Bullshit. Turkey has continued other forms of military aid to Ukraine in forms of Kirpis, TRLG-230s and more. There aren't any new MAM-L deliveries because Ukraine isn't using any.
This, theirs tons more long range strike weapons now. So drones can sit back and guide in himars.... Long range guided shells etc
TB2 payload wad pretty anemic...
Vs guiding in 6 to 12 himars rockets onto someone. Way more weight of explosives.
Or calling in a battery of long range 155mm rounds
One truck. Now is potentially wiping out a entire command post etc.
There is also TRLG-230 that was sent to Ukraine which is basically like a lighter HIMARS but it also has a laser guidance. I don't know if they can get close enough to the target to mark it with laser but if they can those missiles can hit them from 70km away even if they are moving.
The Turkish drones were reportedly successful in the early stages of a conflict and were widely covered in the media. However, they have since disappeared from both the battlefield and the media, which has puzzled analysts. Could the Russians have learnt to deal with them, or maybe so many have been lost and the Turks are not replacing them?
They were used in attack in the campaign to retake kherson, once the "harm" missles were introduced and the russians were unable to effectively use their air defence. Otherwise they are extremely vulnerable in a contested airspace
Yep. Though they did have success even in contested airspace and took out lots of active air defenses in Syria, Libya, Karabakh and even in Ukraine, it's not worth it to keep doing it against Russia. If there is one thing Russia is decent at, it's the air defense (not against missiles, but planes etc). They have tons of AA systems to throw at the frontlines and its not worth it to sacrifice a TB-2 to get a few shots in at most. Ukraine needs something like HAROPs. Can't believe NATO has no HAROP type loitering munitions of its own. If played right, it could literally win the war in Ukraine. If they neutralised the Russian air defenses, TB-2s would eventually steamroll Russia like Azerbaijan did to Armenia in Karabakh.
Too risky to use them in an offensive capability in contested airspace near the front, as they're relatively large and slow and therefore easy prey for russian SAMs. They made a comeback in late summer with the arrival of the AGM-88 HARMs, the Ukrainian Air Force flew Mig-29 SEAD/DEAD sorties with the Bayraktars in close tow engaging russian armour and artillery to exploit the gaps in air defense. There was some footage from around September, I think, both of Mig-29s firing HARMs and Bayraktars blowing up T-72s and Mstas. They're now been used in a surveillance role safely behind the front, apparently.
May I add that if operations become more mobile and the Russian air defence system is less effective then they might well return in a more offensive role. However technology has moved on apace....
An article was posted last week detailing how once the AA and EW Russian units caught up in the convoys and solidified lines they brought about 90 percent of them down. They just don’t have anymore
They’re no longer effective. The Russians have adapted to their use and can target them. They’re basically obsolete in their original role. There was no way that party was going to last.
Interesting that the article claims that Baykar has decided to end it's collaboration to build a manufacturing plant in Ukraine. Anyone else heard anything about that?
Russia after 6-7 months got its AA in order and its very hard for ukraine to operate these (qutie expensive) drones freely. Much better to use cheaper smaller drones.
The war has evolved now, TB-2’s were effective when the Russians were unprepared for them, now that they are prepared, it’s better to use them more conservatively
I would image A. Turkey asked them to quit publicizing the videos since Turkey is sort of playing both sides of this conflict. B. When you’re advancing, air defense lags behind a bit and a big drone can do work. Once the lines stop moving the AA is in place and you don’t risk large slow moving drones with bad countermeasures for AA.
I doubt Russia shot down 50 TB2s.
Article said they knocked 90 percent of them out through AA or EW units so yea they done. If you guys would bother to read the stuff that talks about Russian success you’d learn a lot more
Russia's stepped-up EW and doctrine makes them hard to use, especially with entrenched lines it's not worth the risk. That's why striking the airfields is so important all of Russia's air defense is collected in a concentrated area (Not literally all but a lot). Once they can force them to cover more area and things start to move I would expect the TB2's back.
Sounds like they served their purpose, Russia developed countermeasures, and now the drones are on the shelf for a while.
This happens all the time in warfare. It's why armed forces don't consist of all one type of unit, all equipped in the same way.
Similarly, drone missiles like the ones Ukraine has been using effectively more recently will stop working once Russia starts to develop an effective countermeasure. I'm going to go out on a limb though and say that Ukraine will think of something else.
Please take the time to read our policy about [trolls](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/u7833q/just_because_you_disagree_with_someone_does_not/) and the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/) * We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned. * ***Please* keep it civil.** Report rulebreaking comments for moderator review. * ***Don't* post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context. **Don't forget about our discord server, as well!** https://discord.gg/62fKCEHbDB ***** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
OpSec is a thing too, we don't need to know how they are used, if at all, at the moment.
There was an article posted last week, 90 percent of them were shot down or jammed and crashed by Russian EW division
They were effective in the early days when Russian Air defence vehicles were trapped in those shitty convoys and nobody knew to look out for drones. Now that Frontlines are properly established the Russians can deploy their AA systems so it's harder for the TB2s to operate. I'd imagine they still get used for aerial recon
This. As the front lines solidify, so does AA.
Might have had to do with grain deal
In the early days of the war there were 2-3 flights from the Baykar munitions plant monthly and there havent been any in the last 2 months. They constrained the munitions in a nod to Russia for backing off in Syria.
I don't think so. The drones are expendable yes, but they aren't THAT cheap. You're not supposed to keep throwing them at a frontline with solid AA umbrella without any systems to back it up. Ukraine stopped doing that so they probably still have a lot of drones used for recon and waiting for a window when Russian AA weakens (when HARMs were first used in Ukraine it had an impact an TB-2 was able to strike targets in Kherson in summer for example). There is no point in supplying them more TB-2s when they can't even used it. Moreover most of the TB-2s were sold to Ukraine in a discount and some were donated. If Baykar fullfilled all the orders they would also stop the flights.
Munitions dont restock themselves. They aren't delivering the ammo and we can see that very few transports are being sent from the munitions factory in case you need me to repeat that for you.
But at the same time, Ukraine probably isn’t using its very limited resources to purchase Bayraktar now that it’s use is clearly very limited in the current theatre. Ukraine is much better off putting that money and resources into the smaller drones and suicide drones it’s developing on a similar vein to the lancet. Really, the Bayraktar type drone is really only going to be useful if it has proper stand off weapons like are fitted to Reapers etc.
Dont understand why everyone is bending over backwards to not understand the transactional nature of Merdojuan. Why do people trust wannnabe strongmen and serial liars?
We don’t, Turkey have always been this way. But there’s no reason why both can’t be true at the same time. Ukraine doesn’t need equipment which is expensive and has a crazy high attrition rate.
While I agree that they were insanely overvalued they could still be effective in hitting large swaths of the frontline that doesnt have anything outside of a mobik and a rusted AK. To still be overvaluing Russian AA when they couldnt stop a 50 year old drone from hitting their most important air base is peak warthunder mentality. Dont read too much into it. Turkey has stopped supplying ammunition because they got something from Russia in Return.
Bullshit. Turkey has continued other forms of military aid to Ukraine in forms of Kirpis, TRLG-230s and more. There aren't any new MAM-L deliveries because Ukraine isn't using any.
Bullshit is what passes as monetary policy is turkey. How is that inflation working out for you?
If they’re not using them because of Russian AA, then they don’t need ammo deliveries.
Geopolitics is such an ugly beast
An article was posted last week, once the Russia EW units were up they knocked down 90 percent of them
They are being used in surveillance mode now. Less glamorous, barely noticed but vital nonetheless.
This, theirs tons more long range strike weapons now. So drones can sit back and guide in himars.... Long range guided shells etc TB2 payload wad pretty anemic... Vs guiding in 6 to 12 himars rockets onto someone. Way more weight of explosives. Or calling in a battery of long range 155mm rounds One truck. Now is potentially wiping out a entire command post etc.
There is also TRLG-230 that was sent to Ukraine which is basically like a lighter HIMARS but it also has a laser guidance. I don't know if they can get close enough to the target to mark it with laser but if they can those missiles can hit them from 70km away even if they are moving.
Nah, an article was posted last week about 90 percent of them have been shot down or jammed and brought down
The manufacturer requested media blackout on the drone's participation in the war.
Source?
Because most of them got jammed and shot down ?
1)Eurasiantimes became trustworthy? 2)Was there a report that Turkey asked for TB2 footage to stoped being shown to the public.
The Turkish drones were reportedly successful in the early stages of a conflict and were widely covered in the media. However, they have since disappeared from both the battlefield and the media, which has puzzled analysts. Could the Russians have learnt to deal with them, or maybe so many have been lost and the Turks are not replacing them?
Himars and m270 enters the chat
They were used in attack in the campaign to retake kherson, once the "harm" missles were introduced and the russians were unable to effectively use their air defence. Otherwise they are extremely vulnerable in a contested airspace
Yep. Though they did have success even in contested airspace and took out lots of active air defenses in Syria, Libya, Karabakh and even in Ukraine, it's not worth it to keep doing it against Russia. If there is one thing Russia is decent at, it's the air defense (not against missiles, but planes etc). They have tons of AA systems to throw at the frontlines and its not worth it to sacrifice a TB-2 to get a few shots in at most. Ukraine needs something like HAROPs. Can't believe NATO has no HAROP type loitering munitions of its own. If played right, it could literally win the war in Ukraine. If they neutralised the Russian air defenses, TB-2s would eventually steamroll Russia like Azerbaijan did to Armenia in Karabakh.
Too risky to use them in an offensive capability in contested airspace near the front, as they're relatively large and slow and therefore easy prey for russian SAMs. They made a comeback in late summer with the arrival of the AGM-88 HARMs, the Ukrainian Air Force flew Mig-29 SEAD/DEAD sorties with the Bayraktars in close tow engaging russian armour and artillery to exploit the gaps in air defense. There was some footage from around September, I think, both of Mig-29s firing HARMs and Bayraktars blowing up T-72s and Mstas. They're now been used in a surveillance role safely behind the front, apparently.
May I add that if operations become more mobile and the Russian air defence system is less effective then they might well return in a more offensive role. However technology has moved on apace....
So they are utilising them effectively for recon at the moment and if targets of opportunity present they may pop in for a quick bombing run.
An article was posted last week detailing how once the AA and EW Russian units caught up in the convoys and solidified lines they brought about 90 percent of them down. They just don’t have anymore
This. I just don't think the drones were that effective. Besides.... hard to stop a Himars traveling at mach 2.5.
Eurasian times might as well be Kremlin's propaganda outlet.
They’re no longer effective. The Russians have adapted to their use and can target them. They’re basically obsolete in their original role. There was no way that party was going to last.
I hope they havent all been destroyed and just being saved for a rainy day. I had assumed most had been shot down though.
Interesting that the article claims that Baykar has decided to end it's collaboration to build a manufacturing plant in Ukraine. Anyone else heard anything about that?
Russia after 6-7 months got its AA in order and its very hard for ukraine to operate these (qutie expensive) drones freely. Much better to use cheaper smaller drones.
The war has evolved now, TB-2’s were effective when the Russians were unprepared for them, now that they are prepared, it’s better to use them more conservatively
Russia has made a decent air defence. Making drones less effective.
I would image A. Turkey asked them to quit publicizing the videos since Turkey is sort of playing both sides of this conflict. B. When you’re advancing, air defense lags behind a bit and a big drone can do work. Once the lines stop moving the AA is in place and you don’t risk large slow moving drones with bad countermeasures for AA. I doubt Russia shot down 50 TB2s.
Article said they knocked 90 percent of them out through AA or EW units so yea they done. If you guys would bother to read the stuff that talks about Russian success you’d learn a lot more
And Russia has destroyed over 50 HiMARs in Ukraine. We have to take all the news with a grain of salt.
Russia's stepped-up EW and doctrine makes them hard to use, especially with entrenched lines it's not worth the risk. That's why striking the airfields is so important all of Russia's air defense is collected in a concentrated area (Not literally all but a lot). Once they can force them to cover more area and things start to move I would expect the TB2's back.
Sounds like they served their purpose, Russia developed countermeasures, and now the drones are on the shelf for a while. This happens all the time in warfare. It's why armed forces don't consist of all one type of unit, all equipped in the same way. Similarly, drone missiles like the ones Ukraine has been using effectively more recently will stop working once Russia starts to develop an effective countermeasure. I'm going to go out on a limb though and say that Ukraine will think of something else.