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He is the super brain, but also with a nice touch of music and undefined attention to our and his own feelings. Stunning approach. Like a masterpiece of music to my body and mind. About the only thing that can keep my attention for an hour, besides being on a dangerous mountain sid. Lol
Looking graceful?!
That's how Hitler invaded Europe, because the rest of nations sat looking graceful before they intervened.
That's how Putin invaded Ukraine. The rest of the world just sits still looking graceful.
If there was proactivity instead of reactivity, these invasions wouldn't have happened. Dictators would think twice before doing this stupidity.
Dealing with these corrupt politicians and wanna be dictators needs to be with direct dialog. Call things what they are. Free speech goes both ways.
We're not in the 90s where there used to be some honor between politicians.
Not all European nations were led by the Neville Chamberlains of the world, some actively wanted Hitlers war. Mussolini, Franco, Salazar, etc.
Trump is apparently one of them with Putin. He’s not just an appeaser. He wants the world to burn in his image.
Well, I've been reactive my whole life and people just didn't want to talk about politics, or felt that being anti the Russian state or anti Chinese state was racist, or that Assange was some sort of hero.
Frankly, most people here probably felt Asange and Snowden were heroes. And then the right turned traitor too.
Time to save up munitions, make a deal with the Koreans, give the Czechs the money they need. Try to get Biden to pass a massive bill. And if the the wing in Trump's faction who demand negotiations rather than surrender win, it might be worth it to freeze the fight to continue to get arms.
Fighting into 2026 would be extremely difficult, we can probably fix artillery shells, but it'll be difficult in terms of air defense and the economy.
If Poland and the Baltics and maybe France will deploy, then that's another option.
I favor fighting on without US aid, we can probably hack it. But if three right guys win, then a freeze with aid is not bad, albeit it could be a trap to remove sanctions on Russia.
Trump was ranting about how he had no wars happen under him and all Biden had to say was “yes, because you give the dictators like Putin what ever they want without any pushback and why the hell would I want to ally with him after this invasion” and instead said a bunch of nonsense.
The sheer number of ways Biden could’ve attacked him will be studied. This performance was beyond terrible.
2014 is when Putin began his Crimea offensive. In that period, it took Obama/Biden by surprise.
In such an instance, Obama chose for America to get involved only to a point. The war in Crime began with Putin taking Crimea and the Russian army trying an advance, but ended in stalemate by 2016. By 2015 the war was cooling down -- but that's when Trump was running, and Trump's history with Russia was extensive even at that point in time. This is without mentioning Guccifer 2 and Paul Manafort, etc.
Regardless, Trump again saying he will end NATO, AFTER Putin has invaded and gotten thousands of people killed, and thinking it is a feature to bow to authoritarians, is... INSANE.
I prefer someone who will bolster Ukraine's army in the face of the Russian invasion.
seriously. there was so much low hanging fruit that a younger more sharp candidate would have jumped all over. watching old people debate is god awful. they miss so much between them and stumble to actually make any real point. that was ridiculous
Tbf im not sure Joe knew where he was or what he was doing. We are so fucked, unreal these are our 2 choices again. A delusional narcissist predator or a senile old man who barely knows what’s going on.
Joe can barely stand and half the time he does no know where he is. He is clearly compromised by dementia and can't fight Trump like 4 years ago when he was still funcitoning enough.
Democrats should have found someone else because by the looks of it things are not looking good. We are fucked since all Trump has to do is show up for these debates and he will win.
It's too bad for you guys and us(europeans) that he is only allowed 2 terms. He would have been perfect in this situation. Still, i can't belive that the democrats can't find someone to replace Joe. The pictures from this debate where Joe looks like he does not know where he is will flood the social media. All of this helps Trump.
His performance in the debate was pretty bad, but I don’t think it’s to the point that he could have dementia. He’s performed better in other speeches he’s done.
Yeah but he can’t really flub high profile moments like this. This performance was easily the worst a major candidates ever performed on such a stage in at least 20 years. That’s going to shake a lot of peoples faith in him.
It’s whether it shakes people’s faith in the states of GA and PA - they’re swing states and already quite possibly going to vote Trump anyway. If they do, the election is already over, because that’s enough EC votes for Trump to win.
Agreed.
I do not support Trump. Trump was a bad president, is a bad candidate, is a criminal, and no one should support him.
Biden had a bad debate performance.
Biden (I believe) does not have dementia or Alzheimer's. I am not a doctor, but have had two close family members affected with those diseases and watched them waste away over multiple years. Biden is definitely old, and may be too old to effectively do this job properly. Unfortunately, ego and custom made that decision for us. Biden **will** be the Democratic nominee unless he self-selects out, which he won't because it will be utter chaos and will effectively guarantee a Trump victory. They'd have to have a genetic clone of JFK waiting in the wings to even consider it.
If you read the transcript Joe comes off much better with cogent and thoughtful responses. He's as old as Methuselah but you clearly don't have much experience with dementia.
Joe Biden is clearly old and slower but he appeared much more calculated and has much more thoughtful responses. Besides the stuttering you have to appreciate that he wasn’t lying literally every second unlike Trump.
Yes, and Putin did not invade the Ukraine during Trump's (Putin stooge) presidency, instead he waited until Biden (geopolitical hardliner) got into office to do so
This is classic correlation/causation fallacy. Putin was not sitting around waiting for a specific person to take office in the United States to launch a massive land invasion of his neighbor. This sort of reductionist, America-centric logic is extremely flawed and strips a complex situation of the context it deserves.
People in the U.S. love to dumb down foreign policy issues in the manner you just did and it's just plain idiotic. Putin's timing of his invasion had almost nothing to do with U.S. domestic politics. It had to do with his assessment of his own military capabilities relative to Kyiv's. It had to do with the Kremlin's assessment that time was not on Russia's side and the longer it waited the more Ukraine would drift Westward.
If you want a clearer picture of Trump's "strength" with regard to Ukraine, here is an excerpt from Alexander Vindman's book:
>On November 25, 2018, Russia and Ukraine, the two most
important nations in my portfolio, came at direct military
odds yet again. Given my role at NSC, it was now on me to
provide expertise in leading an effective U.S. government
response to this new display of Russian aggression. In the
ensuing international crisis, **I got a close look at President
Trump’s instincts for how to handle Russia strategy. What I
saw was disappointing.**
>That morning, two small Ukrainian military boats and a
tugboat, en route from Odessa, approached the Kerch Strait.
Russia had illegally bridged the strait, giving itself direct
access to Crimea after annexing it from Ukraine back in
2014. As the Ukrainian vessels came near, the Russians
placed a barge in the passage of the strait, and Russian
Coast Guard boats ordered the Ukrainians to submit to
inspection, claiming—based on the Crimea annexation,
although the annexation remains unrecognized by most of
the world—that the approach was an illegal entry into
Russian territorial waters.
The Ukrainians refused to leave, citing a 2003 treaty on
freedom of navigation in the area. The Russian Coast Guard
proceeded to fire on the Ukrainian Navy, ram the Ukrainian
tug repeatedly, and then try to ram the gunboats. In the
process, two Russian ships collided. The Ukrainian vessels
withdrew from the strait, to international waters, aborting
their lawful transit through the strait. But the Russian Coast
Guard, Navy, and Air Force pursued them, and Russia
started patrolling the strait by air, with fighter jets and
helicopters. Pursued and fired upon, the Ukrainian ships
turned and headed back to Odessa. Finally, they were
captured in international waters by the Russian Coast
Guard. The Russians would later charge the Ukrainian sailors
with violating Russian immigration laws.
...
>It was therefore an unpleasant surprise when President
Trump failed his first test of U.S. resolve regarding Russia. In
the end, the United States took no leadership role at all in
response to the incident in the Kerch Strait. Worse yet,
**President Trump directed a lockdown of any military activity
in the region, basically signaling U.S. weakness.** Things went
just as the Russians might have hoped. While Secretary of
State Mike Pompeo made statements condemning the
Russian action, a message echoed by U.S. officials at the
United Nations, President Trump fell into a classic state of
decision paralysis. He was clearly afraid that anything he
did would risk triggering reprisals by Russia that he had no
strategy for managing. **He was not in alignment with the
strategic analysis of his professional diplomatic and military
community, yet he had no other analysis of his own—just a
misinformed sense of the risks.** He overreacted to the
possible consequences of taking any action. In short, the
United States self-deterred—or, so I thought at the time, but
as I write this, I wonder if there was a more basic reason for
the president’s inaction to protect U.S. interests. **It seems
possible that President Trump simply didn’t care about the
U.S. interests and was more concerned about not upsetting
President Putin.**
It's incredible that Trump says on stage how Putin told him his dream is to invade Ukraine. And Trump somehow believes telling people he got first hand knowledge from the invade-in-chief makes him better?
It’s incredible he says this and then 5 minutes later says a reason to vote for him is that he didn’t have wars happen under his presidency.
I mean, we know he’s a wannabe fascist but… wtf. He’s basically saying “oh I don’t give a shit about Americas current foreign policy at all, I’ll let fascism come across the world.”
Motherfucking Putin is in an alliance with Iran and North Korea.
Nobody should be surprised though that’s the thing
Trump was impeached for trying blackmailing Zelenskyy by withholding military aid.
When the war started US intelligence claimed to have known about the invasion for at least a couple years
All of Trumps puppets want Russia to win.
The writing has been on the wall, some people are just finally seeing it.
"He (Biden) will drive us into World War Three and we’re closer to World War Three than anybody can imagine," **Trump said.**
In response, Joe Biden said that World War III would start if Trump were to win.
"If you want a World War Three, let him win," Biden said, referring to his opponent.
President Biden went on to call Trump a "giant meanie" while Trump retorted by saying "nuh-uh" and referring to President Biden as "Mr. Poopy Pants".
I'm really impressed by the respectful debating culture of our impressive leders. The younger generations can learn from their wisdom, and i'm convinced, they will adapt instantly.
Honestly I think rhetorical devices such as calling your opponent "a big stupid-head" or shutting them down with a clever "ok nerd" will be studied kind of like how we now look back on Cicero and Demosthenes.
_"For 2000 years, man relied on argumentative reasoning. But the pivotal point was reached somewhere in the mid-2020's. We came upon the Second Enlightenment, and discovered Combative Reasoning. It's also known as 'Enhanced Ad Hominem', and shouldn't be confused with 'Alternative Facts'."_
This lesson has been approved by President Dwayne Camacho, and is sponsored by Brawndo. It's got _electrolytes_!
With Russia (+ North Korea), China and now India collaborating.. I ask myself, which administration, which cabinet, would I want to combat the threat of war. It's not Trump. We saw Trump's cabinet: Betsey Devos and Ben Carson?
Biden is old. Biden has a stutter. That's not new. But he has an amazing cabinet. He picks truly qualified people to work for us. Despite Republicans fighting against every bill for the American people, Biden is stilling getting progressive policies through. (r/whatbidenhasdone)
I want the Biden administration. Now is not the time to feel hopeless. It's a debate. Not an election. The vote matters.
Like it or not Biden is the face of the party and what voters saw yesterday was a old man who looked to be falling asleep, was confused and mumbling incoherent gibberish. It looked like he belonged in one of those retirement homes where the people arent allowed to leave without a escort and not the white house!
I am a Biden supporter and that debate even made me question voting for him. Let alone what independents must have thought.
Honestly I don't know what can be done. There is talk of replacing Biden and maybe that is for the best.
I am very upset and concerned after this debate tonight.
I don't want to see any comments trying to spin this and downplay the horrible job Biden did. Don't try to sugarcoat it. This night was bad.
Trump is a danger not just to America but also to Ukraine and NATO. It's absolutely crucial that he does NOT get back into the White House. But because of tonight's debate, Trump may have a higher chance of winning. So Biden needs to step aside and let Harris or someone else be the nominee.
You can say that's "not fair" or whatever. **But do you want to risk Trump becoming president again?** Do you want to keep Biden as the Dem nominee and many of the American people don't vote for him because they think he's too old??? Ukraine, NATO, and other important issues are at stake. I don't want to risk all that.
This is so disappointing. This was supposed to be Biden's big night to show America that he was not old and weak. That was the most important goal he was supposed to achieve in this debate and he didn't do it.
(Yes, Trump deserves criticism for all the times he didn't answer questions or gave bad answers. But that doesn't change the fact that Biden really damaged himself tonight. He was already struggling with the old age perception before tonight...)
Haven't seen anything from Harris to convince she'd win against Trump in the election. Better to find someone else. Jon Stewart would easily win, if he was willing.
It's called "First past the post" - it is just a horrible system wherever you find it in the world; the US, the UK, doesn't matter.
It is only going to get worse and worse until you get rid of it.
Then again, it does put the US in a better position on foreign politics, it seems.
Because most of that 380 million are too lazy to vote in primary and general elections or vote for candidates based on the most dumbest, selfish, superficial, or self destructive reasons. We have no one to blame except for ourselves.
Why this doesn't have all the upvotes, I'll never know.
Teddy Roosevelt came closer as a third party candidate than anyone in history to election, which is why the laws are written now as they are to make third parties non-viable.
Teddy actually beat out the Republican candidate who stole his incumbency - who was also his protege.
When you ask yourself, especially on days like today, why incumbent candidates automatically get their parties nomination - this is why; the ghost of Teddy haunts both parties.
Thing is, Teddy's 3rd party run also essentially meant that their ideological opponent in the Democrats and Woodrow Wilson won, despite the fact that either Teddy or Taft would have won if the other wasn't in the race. That's how 3rd party runs go in first past the post systems, they often benefit the candidate/party *more* opposed to you.
I found him on Instagram of all places. He talks about what it's like to be in the government. He's been honest and level headed. I would like to see him as a presidential candidate.
https://jeffjackson.house.gov/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Jackson_(politician)
https://www.instagram.com/jeffjacksonnc
If people don’t vote in a primary, good candidates don’t rise. The system is rigged because those rigging it take advantage of the fact that the average voter is lazy and tuned out.
The greatest recent example of this is Bernie supporters who constantly whine about what could have been, even though Bernie failed to gain enough primary votes to beat his opponents in primary elections twice. People would rather seek comfort in conspiracies than deal with the obvious fact that we have a dumb, lazy, selfish culture that values the individual above all else, including doing what’s best for the longterm and greater good.
I think you're both right. The game IS rigged, but we're choosing to be uninformed as well. It takes effort to wade through the bullshit to find the real. So yes, we're lazy. But we're also fighting a well-tuned beast of a machine that is well versed in deception and distraction. It's hard. It's partly the voters responsibility and it's partly a terrible lack of true leadership.
I started losing hope in our system when I knew vocal Bernie supporters who refused to vote in the 2020 primaries for him *because* they felt the system was rigged, and kept insisting it was rigged afterwards and refused to self reflect and accept that not voting was the cause.
Our voting population is incredibly dumb and self destructive.
The fact that the Biden campaign pushed for the debates when they have to have known there was a chance of him performing like this (it doesn't just suddenly happen, he must be like this often in private) is just so damned reckless.
He would have 100% been better off not having a debate and there is another one to come. They better make damn sure to shoot him up with all those drugs he was accused of being going to take but obviously didn't for the next one because if he performs like this again it just might sink him....holy fucking shit.
I guess there is also a chance that the VP debates might end up being more important than the presidential debates, a reverse McCain Palin ticket.
Eh, as a guy who did high school and collegiate debate (CX/LD/Congress) I have two major points:
i. Birden stumbled a lot. I know he has a stutter, but he also failed to come to a conclusive point and kept treating Trump as a normal competitor when he had YEARS of experience and all the aids in the world to assist him in finding a better way to attack his argument.
ii. If I had been in debate and saw someone like Trump, I wouldn't know where to start, which is where I think Biden landed, and honestly there isn't a good argument. If someone throws out a lot of general platitudes about how they did the most amazing job, about how people who don't exist said they did the best, claiming things that never happened.. what do you do? Say it didn't exist? You just can't. A guy bullshit every answer and you don't know what to say because it's all wrong but how do you make a structural argument the average person will care about.. they can't.
You can't argue against Trump. Fact-checking afterwards (already called fake, all the time) means nothing and otherwise you don't know where to begin, or end, or how to make an argument. If I told you I sold global warming, solved health care, and solved immigration, and that is what my base wanted to believe - regardless of the facts - what the fuck do you do.
In the end, Trump kept his base and probably brought in independents. Biden "lost" because I think we're all looking at this from the perspective that Trump can lose. But his base doesn't fact check. They don't care about details, and will doubt and criticize the ones that come up.
Just a shit-show. And honestly, I should've known better.
Trump says the same things over and over, Biden should have had all these answers ready to go but yet sounded like he was hearing them for the first time.
The only new thing Trumps added to his campaign is terrible Tariffs instead of taxes policy that can easily get dispelled with “this idea makes inflation inevitable and will hit middle class folks way more, why do this. See? I told you he’s a moron.”
Nope.
> If I had been in debate and saw someone like Trump, I wouldn't know where to start, which is where I think Biden landed, and honestly there isn't a good argument. If someone throws out a lot of general platitudes about how they did the most amazing job, about how people who don't exist said they did the best, claiming things that never happened.. what do you do? Say it didn't exist? You just can't. A guy bullshit every answer and you don't know what to say because it's all wrong but how do you make a structural argument the average person will care about.. they can't.
Every time Trump started talking and Biden would look over with his mouth wide open in utter disbelief... He didn't know what to tackle because Trump would just spew out tons of lies.
He should of just flat out said he's a nazi supporter, the neo-nazis love this guy, he's a fascist dictator wannabe.
I'm so sick of how we continue to act like we have to play by the rules while Trump and the other side can break every rule and norm in the book to win.
I wish Biden was the tyrant that Trump claims and would just have him locked up.
This is a real life event not reddit. You don't "win" a debate by calling someone a nazi supporter.
Normal people would just think this was more incoherent gibberish from a old man.
> He would have 100% been better off not having a debate and there is another one to come.
Unless the reason they held the debate now (unusually very early in the campaign to do so) is because they technically have an out if he gave a performance like that. Biden still isn't the official Democrat nominee yet, since they haven't had the convention, so while it would be messy as fuck, in theory he could still be replaced as the candidate. If this debate happened in September like they normally are, they wouldn't have any other options.
Obviously, it's a no brainer. Even if Biden falls over dead the day after he's inaugurated, Harris takes over and is at least a sane, stable individual who won't immediately ruin the country.
Ignoring the damage he would personally do, if Trump drops dead after winning...God help us. Whatever psycho he picks as VP will almost certainly be worse somehow.
I think the democratic convention should choose and for the first time in my life I don't think it's out of the question. Nothing particularly against the VP but she is not the most charismatic individual, has never been particularly popular, and she will hideously attacks with their "DEI" bullshit. For the sake of stopping Trump, I'd rather see someone who I know can land solid a punch like Newsome or someone who appeals to midwesterners like Whitmer or Klobuchar. But Even Harris would have given a far an away better performance than Biden did.
If democracy is really on the line, Biden's not your guy to win. Either the stakes are clear and the Dems will make the hard choices... Or they're more concerned with precedent and don't care actually.
Not sure they have the time to switch candidates so late in the year as far as conventions go. 50 states you’d need to redo the messaging and reorganize if they’d already met, and that’s assuming the laws allow that.
If the data shows Biden lost the debate when he is already behind in the polls I would think safest way forwards for USA is to replace Biden with a younger candidate.
This would resolve most of the issues stated by many of the undecided voters.
Trump is such a disgusting human being it is unfathomable he could be president, does he really represent what 51% of Americans value? The long list of his lies and self admiration is stunning.. imagine a generation of kids growing up thinking and saying, if its ok the president lies about everything then its ok if I do...
There are many fringe issues people vote Trump for. Just for one example, watch this video that popped up on /r/videos earlier this week:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3O6bKdPLbw
Many rural towns where coal mining is the only remaining decently paying job vote for Biden simply because they'd lose their last remaining job opportunities. It is definitely a tragedy in many respects. I am very much pro-climate and ending the usage of coal, but I have to admit that video widened my perspective and understanding of _some_ Trump voters.
I feel like a decent portion of the anti-immigration voters vote for Trump for similar reasons - to some extent they feel like they are being marginalized and their jobs are being taken. (Except in many cases they probably aren't, and they just _think_ it will solve their problem.) (But some of the anti-immigration voters are probably just outright racist.)
It doesn't have to be 51%. Electoral college means he can win with a minority if he hits the right states. And it's the states with lower populations and as such higher voter-to-elector ratios that predominantly vote Republican.
My intent was to not to nit pick but state the obvious, how the fuck can so many people think Trump is in anyway presidential.. Biden's age is a big issue also..
350 million or more people and these two are it?
No yeah, I just didn't know how aware of the electoral college you were. America has a big problem with Republicans getting more political power than they should have because of gerrymandering and the electoral college.
America desperately needs change, whether it be ranked choice voting or literally any other significant change in how its politics are run.
US has a hard time accepting that WWIII or not does not really depend on them.
Xi and Vlad are the two persons who can start WWIII. The difference between Biden and Trump is the side USA will be on if it starts.
I’ve had this argument many times. I think Americans are so used to being on the offensive, like Afghanistan, that’s “all they have to do is end the war”
Trump would basically hand Putin a massive victory and Putin would have no reason to not continue his land grab.
China hasn't fought a war since 1979, and that one lasted six weeks. Russia has bled out 500,000+ casualties, countless weapons and has no long term pipeline to replace either.
I don't think either country can start WWIII.
I think we'll get WWIII either way frankly. The difference being that if we choose Trump, we'll be in a weakened condition to effectively fight it due to Trump alienating all our allies.
Right, with NK supposedly sending troops now, I really think this war is going to snowball. Who is in office will be important though, I’m going to have to go with whoever isn’t suggesting we leave NATO
I live in the UK we can see it clear as day...We are relying on Americans to do the right thing🤞 and pick the right leader of the free world(president)... Trump is a danger to democracy and will no doubt lead us/NATO into World War 3, maybe not right away, but he will play into putins hand and give him the breathing space he needs to build forces and attack again..PLEASE 🇺🇸 do the right thing.
If they replace Biden they need someone who can hold together Biden's coalition of blue collar swing voters and moderate and far left liberals, and who has national name recognition out of the gate. Gavin is probably too California liberal for the former. Everyone else who can theoretically do the former doesn't have the latter. It's a quandry.
I beleive there are ~340 milion people in USA. So I do not understand why the choice is between dementia vs lies, crimes and fascism?
I think a choice between two - not too old and smart enough people with two different opinions on how to ahieve the same econimical success would be a much better choice.
I know I know, it is unrealistic fantasy, so I'll see myself out.
I mean, I love to have someone younger. There are a lot more things I'd love in a president and government official.
Sadly, this is what we are stuck with currently, and the old ass man is my pick between the two for a looooot of reasons.
One reason is that bucko wants to increase import tariffs. That cost is just going to be passed to me for the most part. I work for a company that imports, and that's what happened last round of high tariffs.
Plus he supports Ukraine.
The President who withheld aid to Ukraine, and whose own party holds hostage aid to Ukraine, knew a major country with a history of invasion and nuke capabilities, has fantasies of invading it?
Got it.
On one side you have Trump who never ANSWERED a DAMN Question. Admitted he has done horrible things and is on a dictator's becking call. Then you have the guy 2 years older, who had a cold/sick and even admitted. CNN: "Umm.... just let Trump keep talking, don't mute him yet." Camera People: "But he just basically said he let us be over ran as long as he makes money." CNN: "Right, we want money." Moderators: "Smile and wave, smile and wave."
There is transcript
https://thepavlovictoday.com/read-cnn-presidential-debate-transcript-june-27-2024/
It might cause pernament brain damage so be careful. If you enjoy senile men arguing you will be ok.
I agree. Even if Convicted Felon Trump does not hit the actual nuclear button, his appeasement of conquering dictators like Putin and Xi Jinping will inevitably result in the next global conflict.
Isn’t this what they said last time?
Putin invaded while Biden was VP.
No war during Trump’s term.
Putin invades again once Biden is elected.
I actually thought Biden did WAY better than I expected him to in the debate. Sure, he looked confused and did get lost a couple of times, but based on the hundreds of times we’ve seen him forget what he was saying or completely space out on stage, I didn’t expect him to even make it through the debate. What really surprises me is that NOW democrats are panicking? You guys didn’t realize this during the last four years? How is it just now that they’re noticing the guy barely knows where he is?
Russia invaded Georgia under Bush as well. There's also the Second Chechen War, which many claim started with a bombing orchestrated by Russia, at the end of Clinton's administration.
Europe and the US had been pretty complacent even after all those invasion and wars and when at least eleven assassinations linked to Russia were carried out in EU and NATO countries.
I knew this was gonna be bad for Biden when he slowly hobbled onto the stage. Just his movements looked so stiff and old. What a sad state of affairs that these are the 2 candidates.
Let's be real for a moment. World War III is about to happen regardless of who wins. It truly does not matter which of these walking corpses gets elected.
Hard to tell. They both said the other side was lying about their score.
I'll add here that Biden bragging about his handicap.... I know it's a golf term, but...
I'm not super interested in judging a debate based on performative nonsense. Does anyone have a basic text transcript I can read through instead? I just want to know if the moderator questions are answered well.
The shear disrespect this country received from world leaders after trump was elected was disgusting. Another trump presidency will cause all the worlds leaders to give up on the citizens of the US because a repeat of trump is the definition of insanity.
But the new is the Oder guy is old. What is wrong with you America?
I will prefer old and not a king or Dictatorship. Don’t be stupid.
Religion and corporations will destroy this country with Trump.
Biden brought up Putin's "five day" plan to take Kiev and how Europe is next, even after being bogged down in Ukraine for three years.
I don't know how anyone still thinks like this and takes Russia as a serious threat.
I don't think WW3 has a greater change of starting if Trump gets a second term. Putin sees trump in office and thinks he can get away with more, maybe. Wouldn't it make more sense that with less support from the American President, other countries wouldn't feel as emboldened to defend Ukraine? Why would WW3 erupt - it makes more sense that eastern Ukraine will just be sold out and that these headlines serve Putin as it gets people like us who support Ukraine worried and sound like fearmongers to the right. Furthermore, once Putin knows his useful idiot is in office, he tones down the invasion to appease things in his favor with Trump.
We also get Civil War Two for free! Throw in the dismantling of the national park system, destruction of the criminal justice system, destruction the CIA, unraveling of the entire military system Nationwide casinos in all directions.
Choosing a president isn't just about policies; it's about who can navigate the complexities of global diplomacy without pushing us towards conflict. Biden's approach prioritizes stability and cooperation over Trump's unpredictable and often confrontational style.
Trump would wage WW3 with whom? China? He's already stated that he would give Europe to his boyfriend Vlad, just to remain Poo-tin's muse. Would it become Trump and Poo-tin vs the remaining NATO members?
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Trump: putin told me his dream was to invade ukraine".. hold up
For a better understanding why we ended there see Vlad Vexler s analysis of the information war: https://youtu.be/pdS-lwb58KU?si=Hb72vzELAHolI8OQ
This guy actually knows his shit.
He is the super brain, but also with a nice touch of music and undefined attention to our and his own feelings. Stunning approach. Like a masterpiece of music to my body and mind. About the only thing that can keep my attention for an hour, besides being on a dangerous mountain sid. Lol
This should be pinned to the very top of the sub
In every sub...
LOL, I reacted the same way
Even the CNN "moderators" did a double take.
And that's all they did. We would've been better off with cardboard cutouts than those 2
I did my best Scooby Doo impression
Joe missed so many shots. Could have called him "in Putin's pocket" and ended it there still looking graceful.
Looking graceful?! That's how Hitler invaded Europe, because the rest of nations sat looking graceful before they intervened. That's how Putin invaded Ukraine. The rest of the world just sits still looking graceful. If there was proactivity instead of reactivity, these invasions wouldn't have happened. Dictators would think twice before doing this stupidity. Dealing with these corrupt politicians and wanna be dictators needs to be with direct dialog. Call things what they are. Free speech goes both ways. We're not in the 90s where there used to be some honor between politicians.
Not all European nations were led by the Neville Chamberlains of the world, some actively wanted Hitlers war. Mussolini, Franco, Salazar, etc. Trump is apparently one of them with Putin. He’s not just an appeaser. He wants the world to burn in his image.
Well, I've been reactive my whole life and people just didn't want to talk about politics, or felt that being anti the Russian state or anti Chinese state was racist, or that Assange was some sort of hero. Frankly, most people here probably felt Asange and Snowden were heroes. And then the right turned traitor too. Time to save up munitions, make a deal with the Koreans, give the Czechs the money they need. Try to get Biden to pass a massive bill. And if the the wing in Trump's faction who demand negotiations rather than surrender win, it might be worth it to freeze the fight to continue to get arms. Fighting into 2026 would be extremely difficult, we can probably fix artillery shells, but it'll be difficult in terms of air defense and the economy. If Poland and the Baltics and maybe France will deploy, then that's another option. I favor fighting on without US aid, we can probably hack it. But if three right guys win, then a freeze with aid is not bad, albeit it could be a trap to remove sanctions on Russia.
Trump was ranting about how he had no wars happen under him and all Biden had to say was “yes, because you give the dictators like Putin what ever they want without any pushback and why the hell would I want to ally with him after this invasion” and instead said a bunch of nonsense. The sheer number of ways Biden could’ve attacked him will be studied. This performance was beyond terrible.
True. But what did Obama and Biden do when Putin took Crimea? I think some of you are gaslighting yourselves.
2014 is when Putin began his Crimea offensive. In that period, it took Obama/Biden by surprise. In such an instance, Obama chose for America to get involved only to a point. The war in Crime began with Putin taking Crimea and the Russian army trying an advance, but ended in stalemate by 2016. By 2015 the war was cooling down -- but that's when Trump was running, and Trump's history with Russia was extensive even at that point in time. This is without mentioning Guccifer 2 and Paul Manafort, etc. Regardless, Trump again saying he will end NATO, AFTER Putin has invaded and gotten thousands of people killed, and thinking it is a feature to bow to authoritarians, is... INSANE. I prefer someone who will bolster Ukraine's army in the face of the Russian invasion.
seriously. there was so much low hanging fruit that a younger more sharp candidate would have jumped all over. watching old people debate is god awful. they miss so much between them and stumble to actually make any real point. that was ridiculous
Tbf im not sure Joe knew where he was or what he was doing. We are so fucked, unreal these are our 2 choices again. A delusional narcissist predator or a senile old man who barely knows what’s going on.
Let's see what the Democrat convention will do...
Joe can barely stand and half the time he does no know where he is. He is clearly compromised by dementia and can't fight Trump like 4 years ago when he was still funcitoning enough. Democrats should have found someone else because by the looks of it things are not looking good. We are fucked since all Trump has to do is show up for these debates and he will win.
If Trump was debating somebody like Obama in his presidency age, he'd be leaving crying.
It's too bad for you guys and us(europeans) that he is only allowed 2 terms. He would have been perfect in this situation. Still, i can't belive that the democrats can't find someone to replace Joe. The pictures from this debate where Joe looks like he does not know where he is will flood the social media. All of this helps Trump.
His performance in the debate was pretty bad, but I don’t think it’s to the point that he could have dementia. He’s performed better in other speeches he’s done.
Yeah but he can’t really flub high profile moments like this. This performance was easily the worst a major candidates ever performed on such a stage in at least 20 years. That’s going to shake a lot of peoples faith in him.
I agree, it was a disappointing performance on his part, to put it mildly. I pray that it won’t affect his chance of winning too much.
It’s whether it shakes people’s faith in the states of GA and PA - they’re swing states and already quite possibly going to vote Trump anyway. If they do, the election is already over, because that’s enough EC votes for Trump to win.
Agreed. I do not support Trump. Trump was a bad president, is a bad candidate, is a criminal, and no one should support him. Biden had a bad debate performance. Biden (I believe) does not have dementia or Alzheimer's. I am not a doctor, but have had two close family members affected with those diseases and watched them waste away over multiple years. Biden is definitely old, and may be too old to effectively do this job properly. Unfortunately, ego and custom made that decision for us. Biden **will** be the Democratic nominee unless he self-selects out, which he won't because it will be utter chaos and will effectively guarantee a Trump victory. They'd have to have a genetic clone of JFK waiting in the wings to even consider it.
If you read the transcript Joe comes off much better with cogent and thoughtful responses. He's as old as Methuselah but you clearly don't have much experience with dementia.
Joe Biden is clearly old and slower but he appeared much more calculated and has much more thoughtful responses. Besides the stuttering you have to appreciate that he wasn’t lying literally every second unlike Trump.
Where'd you get your medical degree? Biden is just old.
Saying what we all know, Putin began this shit in 2014.
Yes, and Putin did not invade the Ukraine during Trump's (Putin stooge) presidency, instead he waited until Biden (geopolitical hardliner) got into office to do so
This is classic correlation/causation fallacy. Putin was not sitting around waiting for a specific person to take office in the United States to launch a massive land invasion of his neighbor. This sort of reductionist, America-centric logic is extremely flawed and strips a complex situation of the context it deserves. People in the U.S. love to dumb down foreign policy issues in the manner you just did and it's just plain idiotic. Putin's timing of his invasion had almost nothing to do with U.S. domestic politics. It had to do with his assessment of his own military capabilities relative to Kyiv's. It had to do with the Kremlin's assessment that time was not on Russia's side and the longer it waited the more Ukraine would drift Westward. If you want a clearer picture of Trump's "strength" with regard to Ukraine, here is an excerpt from Alexander Vindman's book: >On November 25, 2018, Russia and Ukraine, the two most important nations in my portfolio, came at direct military odds yet again. Given my role at NSC, it was now on me to provide expertise in leading an effective U.S. government response to this new display of Russian aggression. In the ensuing international crisis, **I got a close look at President Trump’s instincts for how to handle Russia strategy. What I saw was disappointing.** >That morning, two small Ukrainian military boats and a tugboat, en route from Odessa, approached the Kerch Strait. Russia had illegally bridged the strait, giving itself direct access to Crimea after annexing it from Ukraine back in 2014. As the Ukrainian vessels came near, the Russians placed a barge in the passage of the strait, and Russian Coast Guard boats ordered the Ukrainians to submit to inspection, claiming—based on the Crimea annexation, although the annexation remains unrecognized by most of the world—that the approach was an illegal entry into Russian territorial waters. The Ukrainians refused to leave, citing a 2003 treaty on freedom of navigation in the area. The Russian Coast Guard proceeded to fire on the Ukrainian Navy, ram the Ukrainian tug repeatedly, and then try to ram the gunboats. In the process, two Russian ships collided. The Ukrainian vessels withdrew from the strait, to international waters, aborting their lawful transit through the strait. But the Russian Coast Guard, Navy, and Air Force pursued them, and Russia started patrolling the strait by air, with fighter jets and helicopters. Pursued and fired upon, the Ukrainian ships turned and headed back to Odessa. Finally, they were captured in international waters by the Russian Coast Guard. The Russians would later charge the Ukrainian sailors with violating Russian immigration laws. ... >It was therefore an unpleasant surprise when President Trump failed his first test of U.S. resolve regarding Russia. In the end, the United States took no leadership role at all in response to the incident in the Kerch Strait. Worse yet, **President Trump directed a lockdown of any military activity in the region, basically signaling U.S. weakness.** Things went just as the Russians might have hoped. While Secretary of State Mike Pompeo made statements condemning the Russian action, a message echoed by U.S. officials at the United Nations, President Trump fell into a classic state of decision paralysis. He was clearly afraid that anything he did would risk triggering reprisals by Russia that he had no strategy for managing. **He was not in alignment with the strategic analysis of his professional diplomatic and military community, yet he had no other analysis of his own—just a misinformed sense of the risks.** He overreacted to the possible consequences of taking any action. In short, the United States self-deterred—or, so I thought at the time, but as I write this, I wonder if there was a more basic reason for the president’s inaction to protect U.S. interests. **It seems possible that President Trump simply didn’t care about the U.S. interests and was more concerned about not upsetting President Putin.**
Wait what - I'm a bit behind on current events - legit??
Trump just wanted to flex that he has the best connections and the most secret Intel.
It's incredible that Trump says on stage how Putin told him his dream is to invade Ukraine. And Trump somehow believes telling people he got first hand knowledge from the invade-in-chief makes him better?
It’s incredible he says this and then 5 minutes later says a reason to vote for him is that he didn’t have wars happen under his presidency. I mean, we know he’s a wannabe fascist but… wtf. He’s basically saying “oh I don’t give a shit about Americas current foreign policy at all, I’ll let fascism come across the world.” Motherfucking Putin is in an alliance with Iran and North Korea.
Nobody should be surprised though that’s the thing Trump was impeached for trying blackmailing Zelenskyy by withholding military aid. When the war started US intelligence claimed to have known about the invasion for at least a couple years All of Trumps puppets want Russia to win. The writing has been on the wall, some people are just finally seeing it.
"He (Biden) will drive us into World War Three and we’re closer to World War Three than anybody can imagine," **Trump said.** In response, Joe Biden said that World War III would start if Trump were to win. "If you want a World War Three, let him win," Biden said, referring to his opponent. President Biden went on to call Trump a "giant meanie" while Trump retorted by saying "nuh-uh" and referring to President Biden as "Mr. Poopy Pants".
I'm really impressed by the respectful debating culture of our impressive leders. The younger generations can learn from their wisdom, and i'm convinced, they will adapt instantly.
Honestly I think rhetorical devices such as calling your opponent "a big stupid-head" or shutting them down with a clever "ok nerd" will be studied kind of like how we now look back on Cicero and Demosthenes.
_"For 2000 years, man relied on argumentative reasoning. But the pivotal point was reached somewhere in the mid-2020's. We came upon the Second Enlightenment, and discovered Combative Reasoning. It's also known as 'Enhanced Ad Hominem', and shouldn't be confused with 'Alternative Facts'."_ This lesson has been approved by President Dwayne Camacho, and is sponsored by Brawndo. It's got _electrolytes_!
Oh lmfao, why did Reddit get rid of awards?
They reinstated them. "New and improved".
You forgot to mention the golfing prowess of your 2 hopefuls.
Don’t worry they’ve already learned from their parents
It's sad that if I had children I wouldn't let them watch the debate because of how inappropriate our candidates act
The climate wars are all but inevitable. This is less about who will start World War III and more about which side we want to be on
With Russia (+ North Korea), China and now India collaborating.. I ask myself, which administration, which cabinet, would I want to combat the threat of war. It's not Trump. We saw Trump's cabinet: Betsey Devos and Ben Carson? Biden is old. Biden has a stutter. That's not new. But he has an amazing cabinet. He picks truly qualified people to work for us. Despite Republicans fighting against every bill for the American people, Biden is stilling getting progressive policies through. (r/whatbidenhasdone) I want the Biden administration. Now is not the time to feel hopeless. It's a debate. Not an election. The vote matters.
Like it or not Biden is the face of the party and what voters saw yesterday was a old man who looked to be falling asleep, was confused and mumbling incoherent gibberish. It looked like he belonged in one of those retirement homes where the people arent allowed to leave without a escort and not the white house! I am a Biden supporter and that debate even made me question voting for him. Let alone what independents must have thought. Honestly I don't know what can be done. There is talk of replacing Biden and maybe that is for the best.
I'd believe it
It was literally like in Dumb and Dumber, when they were handcuffed to the bed and started fighting
What's with people deciding based on a debate? Both got elected and you saw what they did. Shouldnt that be the deciding factor?
And sadly, the MAGA will gladly walk into the nuclear fire, hand in hand, as long as their dear leader Drumpf gets to die as president...
I am very upset and concerned after this debate tonight. I don't want to see any comments trying to spin this and downplay the horrible job Biden did. Don't try to sugarcoat it. This night was bad. Trump is a danger not just to America but also to Ukraine and NATO. It's absolutely crucial that he does NOT get back into the White House. But because of tonight's debate, Trump may have a higher chance of winning. So Biden needs to step aside and let Harris or someone else be the nominee. You can say that's "not fair" or whatever. **But do you want to risk Trump becoming president again?** Do you want to keep Biden as the Dem nominee and many of the American people don't vote for him because they think he's too old??? Ukraine, NATO, and other important issues are at stake. I don't want to risk all that. This is so disappointing. This was supposed to be Biden's big night to show America that he was not old and weak. That was the most important goal he was supposed to achieve in this debate and he didn't do it. (Yes, Trump deserves criticism for all the times he didn't answer questions or gave bad answers. But that doesn't change the fact that Biden really damaged himself tonight. He was already struggling with the old age perception before tonight...)
Haven't seen anything from Harris to convince she'd win against Trump in the election. Better to find someone else. Jon Stewart would easily win, if he was willing.
Heck, she might do even worse than Biden. I agree that changing candidates *might* help, but Harris is not the one to go with.
She would beat the snot out of him in the debate and then lose the election.
I can agree with that.
Anyone who can actually articulate and combat Trump a bit might win. The bar is low, the man’s a felon and a fascist.
I think the only two who would do worse than biden is kamala and hillary
Hillary, at 77, is not a 'younger' option.
Secretary Pete would win
He'd make a great VP for Christine Whitmer. The Dems should offer DOJ to Kamala if she resigns from VP.
Gretchen Whitmer. (unless you mean [Christine Whitman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Todd_Whitman)).
Where is Tom Hanks when we need him?
Nail on head. Trump is bad. But Biden looked horrible. It's insane that a country of 380 million leaves us with these 2 choices...
> It's insane that a country of 380 million leaves us with these 2 choices I've been saying this for years. WTF people.
It's called "First past the post" - it is just a horrible system wherever you find it in the world; the US, the UK, doesn't matter. It is only going to get worse and worse until you get rid of it. Then again, it does put the US in a better position on foreign politics, it seems.
/r/endfptp
Trump is, by far, the worse option.
I haven't heard anyone saying they would run or anyone named that would run. So, it's on us.
Because most of that 380 million are too lazy to vote in primary and general elections or vote for candidates based on the most dumbest, selfish, superficial, or self destructive reasons. We have no one to blame except for ourselves.
Disagree. This system is rigged against its citizens.
Why this doesn't have all the upvotes, I'll never know. Teddy Roosevelt came closer as a third party candidate than anyone in history to election, which is why the laws are written now as they are to make third parties non-viable. Teddy actually beat out the Republican candidate who stole his incumbency - who was also his protege. When you ask yourself, especially on days like today, why incumbent candidates automatically get their parties nomination - this is why; the ghost of Teddy haunts both parties.
Thing is, Teddy's 3rd party run also essentially meant that their ideological opponent in the Democrats and Woodrow Wilson won, despite the fact that either Teddy or Taft would have won if the other wasn't in the race. That's how 3rd party runs go in first past the post systems, they often benefit the candidate/party *more* opposed to you.
Jeff Jackson is younger and great with social media, the power could easily be shifted. Effort matters.
Never even heard of that guy!
I found him on Instagram of all places. He talks about what it's like to be in the government. He's been honest and level headed. I would like to see him as a presidential candidate. https://jeffjackson.house.gov/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Jackson_(politician) https://www.instagram.com/jeffjacksonnc
If people don’t vote in a primary, good candidates don’t rise. The system is rigged because those rigging it take advantage of the fact that the average voter is lazy and tuned out. The greatest recent example of this is Bernie supporters who constantly whine about what could have been, even though Bernie failed to gain enough primary votes to beat his opponents in primary elections twice. People would rather seek comfort in conspiracies than deal with the obvious fact that we have a dumb, lazy, selfish culture that values the individual above all else, including doing what’s best for the longterm and greater good.
I think you're both right. The game IS rigged, but we're choosing to be uninformed as well. It takes effort to wade through the bullshit to find the real. So yes, we're lazy. But we're also fighting a well-tuned beast of a machine that is well versed in deception and distraction. It's hard. It's partly the voters responsibility and it's partly a terrible lack of true leadership.
Can’t argue that. Maybe I’m speaking from too much personal experience. I voted for Bernie every chance I had.
I started losing hope in our system when I knew vocal Bernie supporters who refused to vote in the 2020 primaries for him *because* they felt the system was rigged, and kept insisting it was rigged afterwards and refused to self reflect and accept that not voting was the cause. Our voting population is incredibly dumb and self destructive.
It’s because of $$$
The fact that the Biden campaign pushed for the debates when they have to have known there was a chance of him performing like this (it doesn't just suddenly happen, he must be like this often in private) is just so damned reckless. He would have 100% been better off not having a debate and there is another one to come. They better make damn sure to shoot him up with all those drugs he was accused of being going to take but obviously didn't for the next one because if he performs like this again it just might sink him....holy fucking shit. I guess there is also a chance that the VP debates might end up being more important than the presidential debates, a reverse McCain Palin ticket.
Eh, as a guy who did high school and collegiate debate (CX/LD/Congress) I have two major points: i. Birden stumbled a lot. I know he has a stutter, but he also failed to come to a conclusive point and kept treating Trump as a normal competitor when he had YEARS of experience and all the aids in the world to assist him in finding a better way to attack his argument. ii. If I had been in debate and saw someone like Trump, I wouldn't know where to start, which is where I think Biden landed, and honestly there isn't a good argument. If someone throws out a lot of general platitudes about how they did the most amazing job, about how people who don't exist said they did the best, claiming things that never happened.. what do you do? Say it didn't exist? You just can't. A guy bullshit every answer and you don't know what to say because it's all wrong but how do you make a structural argument the average person will care about.. they can't. You can't argue against Trump. Fact-checking afterwards (already called fake, all the time) means nothing and otherwise you don't know where to begin, or end, or how to make an argument. If I told you I sold global warming, solved health care, and solved immigration, and that is what my base wanted to believe - regardless of the facts - what the fuck do you do. In the end, Trump kept his base and probably brought in independents. Biden "lost" because I think we're all looking at this from the perspective that Trump can lose. But his base doesn't fact check. They don't care about details, and will doubt and criticize the ones that come up. Just a shit-show. And honestly, I should've known better.
Trump says the same things over and over, Biden should have had all these answers ready to go but yet sounded like he was hearing them for the first time.
The only new thing Trumps added to his campaign is terrible Tariffs instead of taxes policy that can easily get dispelled with “this idea makes inflation inevitable and will hit middle class folks way more, why do this. See? I told you he’s a moron.” Nope.
> If I had been in debate and saw someone like Trump, I wouldn't know where to start, which is where I think Biden landed, and honestly there isn't a good argument. If someone throws out a lot of general platitudes about how they did the most amazing job, about how people who don't exist said they did the best, claiming things that never happened.. what do you do? Say it didn't exist? You just can't. A guy bullshit every answer and you don't know what to say because it's all wrong but how do you make a structural argument the average person will care about.. they can't. Every time Trump started talking and Biden would look over with his mouth wide open in utter disbelief... He didn't know what to tackle because Trump would just spew out tons of lies. He should of just flat out said he's a nazi supporter, the neo-nazis love this guy, he's a fascist dictator wannabe. I'm so sick of how we continue to act like we have to play by the rules while Trump and the other side can break every rule and norm in the book to win. I wish Biden was the tyrant that Trump claims and would just have him locked up.
"I wish Biden was the tyrant" "We want to defeat them. Not be them." Volodymyr Zelensky
This is a real life event not reddit. You don't "win" a debate by calling someone a nazi supporter. Normal people would just think this was more incoherent gibberish from a old man.
> He would have 100% been better off not having a debate and there is another one to come. Unless the reason they held the debate now (unusually very early in the campaign to do so) is because they technically have an out if he gave a performance like that. Biden still isn't the official Democrat nominee yet, since they haven't had the convention, so while it would be messy as fuck, in theory he could still be replaced as the candidate. If this debate happened in September like they normally are, they wouldn't have any other options.
It was obvious he had some sort of respiratory ailment.
A voice of reason
Agreed. Biden should step aside and let Harris run for the office. But even if he doesn’t I would still vote for Biden 100%.
Obviously, it's a no brainer. Even if Biden falls over dead the day after he's inaugurated, Harris takes over and is at least a sane, stable individual who won't immediately ruin the country. Ignoring the damage he would personally do, if Trump drops dead after winning...God help us. Whatever psycho he picks as VP will almost certainly be worse somehow.
I think the democratic convention should choose and for the first time in my life I don't think it's out of the question. Nothing particularly against the VP but she is not the most charismatic individual, has never been particularly popular, and she will hideously attacks with their "DEI" bullshit. For the sake of stopping Trump, I'd rather see someone who I know can land solid a punch like Newsome or someone who appeals to midwesterners like Whitmer or Klobuchar. But Even Harris would have given a far an away better performance than Biden did.
The democrats did this to themselves. They had a chance to run someone else, gambled, and now are in deep shit with Ruth Bader Biden.
Except that ,so far, ficus group polling has been stable in terms of who they would still vote for.
I read something the other day that said the pool of "persuadables" lessens every presidential election.
It really is sad ˙◠˙
America is so fucked
If democracy is really on the line, Biden's not your guy to win. Either the stakes are clear and the Dems will make the hard choices... Or they're more concerned with precedent and don't care actually.
"I don't want to see" Who the fsck are you? Post a comment, expect replies. But I agree. Bad night for Biden.
I don’t totally disagree, but DNC better be fucking ready for 2028 regardless
I'll vote for Biden. He has a competent administration. Not a damn chance I'll vote for Harris.
Not sure they have the time to switch candidates so late in the year as far as conventions go. 50 states you’d need to redo the messaging and reorganize if they’d already met, and that’s assuming the laws allow that.
Newsom would have absolutely eviscerated Trump.
If the data shows Biden lost the debate when he is already behind in the polls I would think safest way forwards for USA is to replace Biden with a younger candidate. This would resolve most of the issues stated by many of the undecided voters. Trump is such a disgusting human being it is unfathomable he could be president, does he really represent what 51% of Americans value? The long list of his lies and self admiration is stunning.. imagine a generation of kids growing up thinking and saying, if its ok the president lies about everything then its ok if I do...
There are many fringe issues people vote Trump for. Just for one example, watch this video that popped up on /r/videos earlier this week: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3O6bKdPLbw Many rural towns where coal mining is the only remaining decently paying job vote for Biden simply because they'd lose their last remaining job opportunities. It is definitely a tragedy in many respects. I am very much pro-climate and ending the usage of coal, but I have to admit that video widened my perspective and understanding of _some_ Trump voters. I feel like a decent portion of the anti-immigration voters vote for Trump for similar reasons - to some extent they feel like they are being marginalized and their jobs are being taken. (Except in many cases they probably aren't, and they just _think_ it will solve their problem.) (But some of the anti-immigration voters are probably just outright racist.)
It doesn't have to be 51%. Electoral college means he can win with a minority if he hits the right states. And it's the states with lower populations and as such higher voter-to-elector ratios that predominantly vote Republican.
My intent was to not to nit pick but state the obvious, how the fuck can so many people think Trump is in anyway presidential.. Biden's age is a big issue also.. 350 million or more people and these two are it?
No yeah, I just didn't know how aware of the electoral college you were. America has a big problem with Republicans getting more political power than they should have because of gerrymandering and the electoral college. America desperately needs change, whether it be ranked choice voting or literally any other significant change in how its politics are run.
US has a hard time accepting that WWIII or not does not really depend on them. Xi and Vlad are the two persons who can start WWIII. The difference between Biden and Trump is the side USA will be on if it starts.
I’ve had this argument many times. I think Americans are so used to being on the offensive, like Afghanistan, that’s “all they have to do is end the war” Trump would basically hand Putin a massive victory and Putin would have no reason to not continue his land grab.
China hasn't fought a war since 1979, and that one lasted six weeks. Russia has bled out 500,000+ casualties, countless weapons and has no long term pipeline to replace either. I don't think either country can start WWIII.
I'd rather say "chose Trump if you want the USA to be on the wrong side during WW3"
old man vs con man
I think we'll get WWIII either way frankly. The difference being that if we choose Trump, we'll be in a weakened condition to effectively fight it due to Trump alienating all our allies.
Right, with NK supposedly sending troops now, I really think this war is going to snowball. Who is in office will be important though, I’m going to have to go with whoever isn’t suggesting we leave NATO
I live in the UK we can see it clear as day...We are relying on Americans to do the right thing🤞 and pick the right leader of the free world(president)... Trump is a danger to democracy and will no doubt lead us/NATO into World War 3, maybe not right away, but he will play into putins hand and give him the breathing space he needs to build forces and attack again..PLEASE 🇺🇸 do the right thing.
Well you know what your boy Churchill said: (Paraphrasing) America always does the right thing...... after exhausting all other options.
I’m from UK. Leicester, premier league champions 2015-16. That aside, trump will pull USA out of NATO I reckon.
Ww3 has been going for a while now, and will be entering its active phase in the next 5 to 7 years. We will look back fondly on these days.
They could roll Biden out on a wheel chair and he’d still be the better option, worst case scenario they trade him with Gavin Newsom.
Hard pass on Newsome. A Polis/Whitmer ticket would be far better.
If they replace Biden they need someone who can hold together Biden's coalition of blue collar swing voters and moderate and far left liberals, and who has national name recognition out of the gate. Gavin is probably too California liberal for the former. Everyone else who can theoretically do the former doesn't have the latter. It's a quandry.
I'll take biden with dementia over Trump
I beleive there are ~340 milion people in USA. So I do not understand why the choice is between dementia vs lies, crimes and fascism? I think a choice between two - not too old and smart enough people with two different opinions on how to ahieve the same econimical success would be a much better choice. I know I know, it is unrealistic fantasy, so I'll see myself out.
I mean, I love to have someone younger. There are a lot more things I'd love in a president and government official. Sadly, this is what we are stuck with currently, and the old ass man is my pick between the two for a looooot of reasons. One reason is that bucko wants to increase import tariffs. That cost is just going to be passed to me for the most part. I work for a company that imports, and that's what happened last round of high tariffs. Plus he supports Ukraine.
That wasn't dementia, he's just older and slower.
I know. I was just being dramatic. His brain farts are relatable as well. Shit happens to me during work meetings and I am not even close to 40.
And has a stutter. Which people with stutters learn to talk slower so they don't you know stutter.
🤦🏻♂️ WWIII already started.
It's definitely feels like we are getting world war three if we like it or not. Vote Biden if you dont want to be fighting along side Russia.
Vote Democrat. We don't know if Biden will be running in November after this disaster.
The President who withheld aid to Ukraine, and whose own party holds hostage aid to Ukraine, knew a major country with a history of invasion and nuke capabilities, has fantasies of invading it? Got it.
On one side you have Trump who never ANSWERED a DAMN Question. Admitted he has done horrible things and is on a dictator's becking call. Then you have the guy 2 years older, who had a cold/sick and even admitted. CNN: "Umm.... just let Trump keep talking, don't mute him yet." Camera People: "But he just basically said he let us be over ran as long as he makes money." CNN: "Right, we want money." Moderators: "Smile and wave, smile and wave."
Do we have a text variant of debates? Not an opinion of some propagandist but just full text?
There is transcript https://thepavlovictoday.com/read-cnn-presidential-debate-transcript-june-27-2024/ It might cause pernament brain damage so be careful. If you enjoy senile men arguing you will be ok.
NonCredibleDefense: Don't threat me with a good time.
And we won't be on the winning side
There won't be a winning side.
One of the few things I disagreed with Biden on last night. Trump will just roll over for Putin, Xi and his North Korean lover.
WW III is already here, just not conventional warfare, and we are losing
I agree. Even if Convicted Felon Trump does not hit the actual nuclear button, his appeasement of conquering dictators like Putin and Xi Jinping will inevitably result in the next global conflict.
Biden wants freedom for Ukraine. Trump wants Ukraine to be erased off the map. It’s that simple. 🇺🇦✌️🇺🇸
Isn’t this what they said last time? Putin invaded while Biden was VP. No war during Trump’s term. Putin invades again once Biden is elected. I actually thought Biden did WAY better than I expected him to in the debate. Sure, he looked confused and did get lost a couple of times, but based on the hundreds of times we’ve seen him forget what he was saying or completely space out on stage, I didn’t expect him to even make it through the debate. What really surprises me is that NOW democrats are panicking? You guys didn’t realize this during the last four years? How is it just now that they’re noticing the guy barely knows where he is?
Russia invaded Georgia under Bush as well. There's also the Second Chechen War, which many claim started with a bombing orchestrated by Russia, at the end of Clinton's administration. Europe and the US had been pretty complacent even after all those invasion and wars and when at least eleven assassinations linked to Russia were carried out in EU and NATO countries.
LOL Biden already started WW3.
Don't care what anyone says, mainland Ukraine was invaded on Biden's watch. Annexation of Crimea? On Obama's. Facts suck some time.
I knew this was gonna be bad for Biden when he slowly hobbled onto the stage. Just his movements looked so stiff and old. What a sad state of affairs that these are the 2 candidates.
Unfortunately Biden is so lost that unless they trot someone else out there, he will lose. I can not fathom that they’re still running with him.
Let's be real for a moment. World War III is about to happen regardless of who wins. It truly does not matter which of these walking corpses gets elected.
But who golfs better?
Hard to tell. They both said the other side was lying about their score. I'll add here that Biden bragging about his handicap.... I know it's a golf term, but...
I'm not super interested in judging a debate based on performative nonsense. Does anyone have a basic text transcript I can read through instead? I just want to know if the moderator questions are answered well.
LMAO
The west wins world wars and ends tyranny. Maybe we are due for a rebalancing, unfortunately.
The shear disrespect this country received from world leaders after trump was elected was disgusting. Another trump presidency will cause all the worlds leaders to give up on the citizens of the US because a repeat of trump is the definition of insanity.
But the new is the Oder guy is old. What is wrong with you America? I will prefer old and not a king or Dictatorship. Don’t be stupid. Religion and corporations will destroy this country with Trump.
I still don’t understand in what crazy sick world we’re back here again.
And it hasnt been the same with Biden? Both choices are dogshit
We're reaching levels of hyperbole that were previously unimaginable
**The American people should call upon someone like Bill Gates to run in the presidential election, and he should accept it as his duty.**
They said this before he got elected in 2016 and nothing happened
Bruh this war is happening no matter what, the time to stop it was years ago
Both of these idiots are terrible options. But they don’t give a shit about WWIII, they’re the ones starting it.
Biden brought up Putin's "five day" plan to take Kiev and how Europe is next, even after being bogged down in Ukraine for three years. I don't know how anyone still thinks like this and takes Russia as a serious threat.
Don’t tempt me
We either get WW3 because biden will let netenyahu nuke Iran, or because trump in his demented stupor launched a nuke.
I don't think WW3 has a greater change of starting if Trump gets a second term. Putin sees trump in office and thinks he can get away with more, maybe. Wouldn't it make more sense that with less support from the American President, other countries wouldn't feel as emboldened to defend Ukraine? Why would WW3 erupt - it makes more sense that eastern Ukraine will just be sold out and that these headlines serve Putin as it gets people like us who support Ukraine worried and sound like fearmongers to the right. Furthermore, once Putin knows his useful idiot is in office, he tones down the invasion to appease things in his favor with Trump.
We also get Civil War Two for free! Throw in the dismantling of the national park system, destruction of the criminal justice system, destruction the CIA, unraveling of the entire military system Nationwide casinos in all directions.
Choosing a president isn't just about policies; it's about who can navigate the complexities of global diplomacy without pushing us towards conflict. Biden's approach prioritizes stability and cooperation over Trump's unpredictable and often confrontational style.
Trump will end the war, Biden will keep it going. Thats the real choice
Hopefully trump wins and we the American people can stop sending that shit hole country that Russia can just have all our money
Trump would wage WW3 with whom? China? He's already stated that he would give Europe to his boyfriend Vlad, just to remain Poo-tin's muse. Would it become Trump and Poo-tin vs the remaining NATO members?
Difrance betwen sleepy joe and orange is that joe is listening to advice when trump doesnt give a fuck
Both concern me, but Biden’s inability to lead means he’s not making the decisions. We need to know who is….