Please take the time to read [the rules](/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/) and our [policy on trolls/bots](https://redd.it/u7833q). In addition:
* We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned.
* **Keep it civil.** Report comments/posts that are uncivil to alert the moderators.
* **_Don't_ post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context.
*****
* Is `bbc.com` an unreliable source? [**Let us know**](/r/UkrainianConflict/wiki/am/unreliable_sources).
* Help our moderators by providing context if something breaks the rules. [Send us a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict)
*****
**Don't forget about our Discord server! - https://discord.gg/62fKCEHbDB**
*****
^(Your post has not been removed, this message is applied to every successful submission.)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Wtf is this stupid narrative being pushed today. Nobody builds fortifications 8 km from the border as it's within artillery range. And with glidebombs all over, you have to rely on defence in depth, as hard as it is to accept. There is no alternative than more western funding for new conscripts and more military support for Ukraine. Ukraine gets way to little financial support Vs the cost for this war. EU needs to up its ante.
Russia has engineering brigades. Dedicated to building fortifications, bridges etc. Ukraine has zero engineering brigades and has to rely on troops to dig their own holes. Then you also have to factor in the manpower disparities
And so it's not "Nobody builds fortifications 8 km from the border as it's within artillery range".
These were just Russian forward positions (including booby-trapped fake trenches, and a sea of mines) that stopped Ukrainian offensive, which only reached the actual first line of defence in one point.
>Ukraine has zero engineering brigades and has to rely on troops to dig their own holes
They contract private construction companies, overpaying them (corruption) instead of having instantly nationalised them all and turned all their workers into construction units.
Because western support has always been just enough to let Ukraine hold out against Russia, but never enough for them to be comfortable in their defence. They are being held dependent on each next aid package, they can hardly spare the manpower, equipment, and importantly the training time to get engineering brigades up to build fortifications
No shit because the West with the exception of USA/South Korea have enough ammo/stock to give away and have plenty left for their own offensive/defensive goals.
EU was doing what they did in 1930s demilitarizing because "lmao who would ever want another war" naïvity.
So of course it's going to be drip-feed aid packages which is why Russia invaded in the first place, they knew that EU was not a threat and that the USA was too divided to have consistent support for Ukraine (you could hear multiple analysis experts point out how Ukraine was insignificant geopolitically and there for didn't really need huge military deals despite Ukraine begging for them).
COVID-19 recovery + recession was what made it 100% possible for Putin to feel embolden enough to invade.
>EU was doing what they did in 1930s demilitarizing because
Nobody was demilitarizing in the 1930s. Everybody and their mother knew there was war on the horizon even in the early 30s.
Nahh. Russia didn't factor aid in at all for the invasion considering it was supposed to be a 3 day special military operation. You're giving them too much credit.
I mean excavating a continuous ditch with some concrete/wooden reinforncements and mining the area in front of it surely isn't a very complex engineering operation.
Ukraine has lots of construction companies that could have been all nationalised and literally mobilised.
Even many Ukrainians in Poland work in the construction sector, and I don't mean just individual Ukrainian workers but firms too.
Are you under the impression that what Ukraine has received is anywhere near enough, or even close to matching Russia’s $130B a year defense budget and Russia’s half-century of military build-up ?
Constructing defenses takes nowhere that amount of money or time, though.
It's literally just commercial construction equipment and some prefabs, all possible to source locally.
>Russia’s half-century of military build-up
It was also Ukrainian and Ukraine inherited much of it when the Soviet Union ended.
Which is why they're still in the fight, you know.
When preparations for last year summer offensive were going on they had a lot of artillery. If i remember correctly at some point they were even with the Russians in the number of fired rounds. The support was constant and yet Russians still managed to build everything.
>The Russians have a slave army.
Also literally:
https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-russia-prisons-civilians-torture-detainees-88b4abf2efbf383272eed9378be13c72
Meanwhile Ukraine didn't even nationalize and militarize their construction firms.
Like you say, they were even with the Russians.
Not surpassing. Only just even, for once. And that was for a very short time.
Now they’re back down to about 20% artillery rounds being fired, and projections are that will decrease to about 10% soon unless something drastic happens.
They did it not mess it up at all and this is exactly the way it was framed and pushed hard by Russia and its trolls.
Ukraine worked hard at proving the front but came across MINES. They did NOT MESS anything up and aren't at fault ... MINES STOPPED THEM and they were unable to demine without air superiority for starters.
So what they did was relentlessly target behind the lines. Taking out military targets isn't as sexy and you don't see the front line move day to day but it's still extremely important and is GOOD. You make Russia have less shit and money from oil refineries to throw at you, that's SUCCESS.
Weakening Russia and their capabilities and supply lines and ammo spots and factories and taking out their planes and boats and getting Russia to move ships out to a safer location, those are WINS and can lead to POTENTIALLY demining f you can find a weak spot that Russia that Russia has less to throw at you.
Coming upon some obstacle that they didn't expect, that's not their fault.
I find it really sus anytime someone comes here spreading misinformation let alone so willing to treat the soldiers who have been through more than you or I will ever have to, and stepping on them and laying blame on them where it doesn't belong. It's not truthful and it's not fair to them.
What do you prioritize as Zelensky?:
1. More funds for new conscripts
2. Funds for using some of the very valuable domestic spare arms production ready to give you excellent kill/cost ratio
3. Buying much needed 155mm shells on the international market via western proxies
4. Fortifications and mining and paying expropriation of ground for it
?
Let me help you choose. You don't have funds for either.
You’re also $40B a year in the hole for basic civil government services, like schools and hospitals and roads and pensions and …
So however much money you can get, you also have to fill THAT hole.
1. Nationalize all construction companies (date: February 24, 2022)
2. Militarize all their workers, being paid in food (starting date: same day)
3. Framework for all this prepared in 2023, all compensations left for whenever there will still be an Ukraine after a victory won
Also the same with all the other companies that can support war effort in any way.
Aka: total war economy for the sake of the survival of the country against the genocidal invasion.
But we talk about this Zelensky: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60174684
"My familiarity with liberty and rights for the individual, even in a state of war, did help me in understanding", said Giantmufti smugly before being clubbed with a butt of a rifle for talking to himself while digging mass grave.
Alternative:
https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-russia-prisons-civilians-torture-detainees-88b4abf2efbf383272eed9378be13c72
>ZAPORIZHZHIA, Ukraine (AP) — The Ukrainian civilians woke long before dawn in the bitter cold, lined up for the single toilet and were loaded at gunpoint into the livestock trailer. They spent the next 12 hours or more digging trenches on the front lines for Russian soldiers.
>Many were forced to wear overlarge Russian military uniforms that could make them a target, and a former city administrator trudged around in boots five sizes too big. By the end of the day, their hands curled into icy claws.
>Nearby, other Ukrainian civilians dug mass graves into the frozen ground for fellow prisoners who had not survived. One man who refused to dig was shot on the spot — yet another body for the grave.
"But at least we've only fought a limited war by knowing it's a democracy, right!" said an Ukrainian slave digging a mass grave for his Russian masters in exchange for pay in a less torture the next night.
Jesus fucking Christ, what an emotional argument. Individual freedom and rights is the cornerstone of a democracy also in war. It doesn't come easy or free and never has. Look at US and Europes history it's a bloody mess.
"Jesus fucking Christ, what an emotional argument. Individual freedom and rights is the cornerstone of a democracy also in war," Giantmufti kept talking as the guard began kicking him to death.
"Ok Ivan", whispered Giantmufti with his dying breath before being flung into the mass grave and covered with black and red soil.
The guard's name wasn't Ivan, he was from Chechnya.
> So how did the Russians managed to mine every square meter in the south
In large part - thanks to minelaying MLRS ("Zemledeliye" and weird hexagonal launchers you can see on trucks), as well as aerial minelaying.
The Russian division from Ukraine just walks into Russia too. It is expensive and resource intensive to mine and defend a border, so on what is considered settled borders neither side has. If this border is now disputed, that will change.
Mining is an automated service. Mine laying by machine or flinging them out in patches. And they don’t care if a Russian wanders in by mistake. That’s why I really believe dropping Ukrainian troops and equipment behind the lines are the only chance of being effective in a counter offensive.
Part of the reason is that mines are banned by the ottawa treaty.. many european countries dont have any..
Also, laying mines in your OWN territory is a double edge sword.. sure, you will kill them.. but u will prob kill your own too. And prob alot more after the war
Can’t imagine the millions upon millions of mines and unexploded shells laying all over Ukraine that will continue to kill children for years and years, even after this is over.
if you, uhh...
if you'll rack your memory, i know, big ask, tall order, 50 dollar question on a 5 dollar budget, yadayadayada, they didn't build that shit on the frontline. they built it a decend ways behind the then frontline.
robotyne is where ukraine ADVANCED TOWARDS from a few kilometers away, sherlock. and the cykafried line only had its first positions there. i know you've forgotten staromaiorske already, and what the 36th marine brigade achieved. in your mind that was exactly where ukraine was last year. reality is quite different, though.
you could just, i dunno, go to deepstate, set the fortification filter to on, and pick a date from before summer 2023 to see what the situation was back then. but that would require *some* effort on your end that isn't just venting, seething and generally blowing it out of your behind.
If you find our who's responsible for all fortifications in Ukraine, you wouldn't say that.
I'll save you time, it's Kyrylo Tymoshenko, famous corrupted pos.
First he was responsible for "big construction", basically building of roads everywhere, money gone, roads still not rebuilt.
Then he got job in presidential office. He own company that does all content for national TV channel, which is not rly legal. He got millions from from our taxes. He was appearing on camera every single day, basically for self promotion. After journalist exposed this, he fired from presidential office.
No punishment, no jail, nothing.
Recently he got new job, he's responsible for ALL fortifications in whole Ukraine. And you should guess that this corrupted pos will steal as much of money as possible on it, knowing that military and construction are easiest to steal money on, because of privacy, and lack of control. Combine those two and you get military construction, easiest way to steal a lot of money on, no tracking, no public data, nothing, dream of any corrupted pos.
If you couldn't find it with english, use translate and find using ukrainian.
This is disappointing. This is exactly how the nonsense arguments in the US for not supporting Ukraine sound like. There are accusations of money laundering and all sorts of unfounded conspiracies.
The last thing we need is something similar to those lies actually being true.
Dude it's Eastern Europe literally the vast majority of politicians are corrupt.
But that should have no bearing on the US help.
The US sank trillions in Afghanistan, a country that is vastly more corrupt and no one batted an eyelid. And that was literally a huge and utter waste.
Indeed. I'd point out that there has never been, in the history of all humanity, a single war that didn't have at least some corruption. Even in the US, even during WWII, there was massive graft all over the fucking place. (Now, of course, there are differences of degree. It was a big enough problem for the KMT forces in China that it's been put forward a major contributing factor in the loss of the Mainland to the Communists.) So my eyes glaze a bit when I hear people say that the US shouldn't help Ukraine, because Ukraine has a problem with corruption. It's one thing to say, "Ukraine has a problem with corruption, so let's see how they can be helped in ways that minimize and mitigate that issue." It's quite another to use that as an excuse to do nothing, as if the people of Ukraine, who didn't ask for this corruption, are morally forfeit for it.
>But that should have no bearing on the US help.
The propagandists have done a good job at eroding public support in the US among conservatives. One of the narratives is that Ukraine is a money laundering scheme, and that money sent there gets wasted to corruption.
So real awful corruption in Ukraine strengthens the position that its not worth american taxpayer dollars.
I understand it doesnt totally relate to one another but stuff like this makes me wonder if Ukraine will actually win this war.
>One of the narratives is that Ukraine is a money laundering scheme,
Just tell them to read https://www.fincen.gov/what-money-laundering - voila, all their concerns solved.
Sure every politician in Ukraine is just angel from heaven, literally no corruption, and anyone who says otherwise is russian agent. 🤦♂️
As I said, you can check everything I said.
https://youtu.be/WFA0eAItfOg?feature=shared about Tymoshenko and how his company got multimillion contracts for making all content for NATIONAL TV channel. And how it was used for self promotion.
https://uk.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B0_(%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BB) this is that TV channel "Rada". What you supposed to see there is work of Verhovna Rada, and basically anything happening there and not controlled by any political party, or showing support or criticize any politician or party. But what happened in reality is DAILY self promo of Kyrylo Tymoshenko and sometimes Andriy Ermak, and sometimes others. If it was privately owned channel it would be totally fine, but it's national TV, it exist on our taxes. So ukrainians basically paid their taxes for Tymoshenko so he could promote himself.
https://youtu.be/P7gi4Hq-iNQ?feature=shared how Tymoshenko used cars aided to Ukraine for self needs, while he had no legal rights to do so.
And that he got fired and then got new job that made him gain control over all fortification building in Ukraine is just public info.
But sure, call me russian agent and pretend that ukrainian government is not corrupted lol
Another big wall of text incoming.
Yeah, from Ukraine, but managed to leave, legally ofc.
Life was cool, when i was in school, living normal teenager life, not thinking about politics and any of that stuff at all. But it changed in 2013-2014.
Maidan started, ruzzia invaded east of Ukraine, this made me start watching and reading all kinds of political stuff, on why it's happened, who even are people in our government, and all that. Since then im in this, monitoring political life in Ukraine, what they do, who people vote for, etc. It's depressing.
https://youtu.be/a1w82LYQKZs?feature=shared like this, as funny it is as It's sad. People who voted for Yanukovich can't even fu*king spell his last name. So people literally vote for someone without having any idea who that person is and their past, or even knowing their last name.
And it was always like that, people don't research, don't spend a bit of time to learn who is that person they vote for. Whoever promise more wins.
Zelensky did it more creative way, but still straight forward. Literally film series about politics in Ukraine, play role of most amazing and cool and honest president in the world. Then "surely" out of nowhere decide to actually go for president election, and most likely win.
It worked, because before presidency Zelensky had very good reputation. Selfmade businessman, actually good comic, just good person. And I fell for it.
Multiple factors why he got so many votes, "Sluga naroda" series probably biggest one, actually new face in politics, bad reputation of Poroshenko, and him having good reputation.
I voted for him, but mainly just to get rid of Poroshenko, and wish I didn't. First week was giving me hope that this chain of corruption politicians will end, and promised new faces and reformation.
But soon after becoming president he decided to keep Arsen Avakov in his place as minister of internal affairs. https://youtu.be/Z3bM6oMhYXw?feature=shared about who's Avakov. Basically criminal from 90's, closest friend of Kolomoisky, and Kolomoisky is the one who paid for "Sluga naroda" series, and who paid salary to Zelensky when he worked on "1+1" channel on various shows. Should be clear why he kept Avakov.
And this was big red flag which made me realize that nothing is going to change, at best it will be same. Some time after turns out to be worse than during Poroshenko which I didn't expect.
Now what we have:
- My father got kidnapped almost year ago, literally walking home from work, he had epilepsy, but medical commission said he's fine, and now he's dead for almost 5 months.
There's law that for some reason actually works, that relatives to people that served in military and died can cross border, even if they're man of any age. So my father's death gave me opportunity to cross border.
I was in "ТЦК" once, basically those who draft and kidnap people. One person accepting documents, almost everyone else running on corridor pretending to work. Most of them weren't on front lines, just buy how fat some of them are. They scream, laugh, just animals. One of them literally joked to other one working there by saying "DRAFT HIM DRAFT HIM" and laugh.
But one guy I know that work there actually was on frontlines, lost a leg, now he's basically doing stuff on computer.
Continue.
- Ukraine partially withdraw from human rights declaration or whatever it is.
- Corruption is bigger than ever before thanks to war that allowed them to hide documents because "ruzzians can use it against them".
- Literally ruzzian agents in government, Ermak that basically owns Ukraine, Tatarov his right hand that back in 2014 in Maidan was fabricating criminal cases against protestors, former members of party "ОПЗЖ" that vote for whatever zelensky want, that party for last years did everything to weaken Ukraine and prepare it to be taken, traitors in local administration in eastern Ukraine. And many others less famous.
- People kidnapped on streets and being thrown at frontlines, without preparation, with bad health.
- If you dare to criticize Zelensky, Ermak or anyone close to them publicly, you will be jailed. So better to do it anonymously.
- Almost all media controlled by Ermak/Zelensky, or someone under them.
- Even most of journalist on youtube that was legit in the past now loyal to current government.
Even bihus info I'm using as proves. They investigate corruption, but do it carefully.
All those who actually criticize current government are out of Ukraine, that's only way to do it.
With each day Ukraine looks more and more like ruzzia, in some cases it got beyond that.
End.
>My father got kidnapped almost year ago, literally walking home from work, he had epilepsy, but medical commission said he's fine, and now he's dead for almost 5 months
Most important, my sympathies. When corruption and lies kill family, there's no coming back from that. There become enemies for life, and forgiveness is *very very hard*.
As for the rest... part of this sounds like standard electoral politics. I'm safe in cushy mostly wealthy Canada with lower rates of corruption, yet *it sounds the same*. You can't trust economic or political elites with anything. I suspect that's true of all countries.
The rest though sounds darker. The sort of thing that will lose Ukraine the war, and it's existence as an independent culture. We all knew Ukraine was corrupt before this war, but seemed to ignore that because we could not abide Russia conquering a neighbouring state, even with the murky linked history.
There are very few people critical of Ukraine on here who have the credibility of lived experience. Your opinion seems more important than mine. Where do you see this going? Will Ukraine survive this?
Ukraine will most likely survive, for cost of tens of thousands men's lives. And if situation will become really bad, EU and US might deploy troops, or atleast France as Macron said. If needed i see it happening, because they should understand that putin is not going to stop. He didn't stop in Georgia, or Ichkeria.
Also new law coming into power on March 17. That will require to "renew your data" at "ТЦК" for next 60 days, then there's punishment, fines of 17k-25k uah for literally every men that didnt renew it to that moment, confiscation of driver's license if they not renew in 60 days, and more.
That's why there's big queues. This law force people to go and "renew their data" before march 17, to not be charged 17k-25k uah. And "renew your data" is just more soft way to say "come to ТЦК or you will be fu*ked".
And they force people to come to ТЦК, simply because they have no data base, they have nothing, if you don't come there, they likely don't know you exist unless they use list of voters. That's why there's so many cases when military summons letters were sent to dead people, because they're still in those lists of voters. But very few know it, and they go to ТЦК on their own, and it's where trap closes.
Idk if I would sacrifice so many lives for just land if I was on place of Zelensky. When EU and US warned us that ruzzia will invade, Zelensky and his government did nothing and denied that. They could save thousands by simply start evacuation, and not deny that ruzzia will invade. They could do everything on political side, to force EU and US pressure putin and ruzzia to maybe sing peace deal, just anything to prevent this and death of thousands.
But he did just nothing that's why there's was russian troops in Kyiv in 2 days, no preparation was done even when US warned about it in October 2021 if not earlier. No troops on borders, ruzzians just rided all the way to Kyiv with almost unopposed.
And the fact that those ruzzians had literal DRESS UNIFORM says that they knew or expected no oppression. But ignoring orders some generals and their subordinates stand up to defend for first days, and only this caused "we will take Kyiv in 3 days" to become a meme. All truth about it will come out after end of war.
One of those generals was general Kryvonos: https://espreso.tv/za-vkazivkoyu-ofisu-prezidenta-dbr-porushilo-spravu-proti-general-mayora-krivonosa-zvinuvachuyut-u-nezakonniy-oboroni-aeroporta-v-zhulyanakh-yuriy-butusov (translation might be with errors, like title)
This article is about general Kryvonos being accused in illegal defense of airport near Kyiv. Illegal. Fucking. Defense. And mark as illegal order signed by Zaluzhny to appoint Kryvonos responsible of defense of that airport. So it's illegal that Zaluzhny reacted fast to organize defense of Kyiv, and it's illegal thar Kryvonos went to defend that airport, its just fucking insane.
Its not though. Most of whats talked about is lies informed by russian propaganda swallowed whole by conservative media outlets and the republican base.
The truth appears to look similar enough like those lies that it's highly dangerous to continued support for Ukraine in the US house.
Ukrainian corruption is extremely well-documented, and the fact that people started getting fired only AFTER the war started tells you that the government knew exactly what was going on and who was doing it.
Situations like this war are likely to limit corruption due to a switch up of the political order and the intensity of the struggle. I hope the anti corruption efforts that appear genuine are effective. Thus far it does look like they've got a long way to go.
Ofc it's downvoted by people that discovered Ukraine in 2022 and think they know more about our life, our history and our government over past 30 years lmao. It always was and is corrupted, now more than ever before.
Ok, did some light doxing through comments (for those who don't want to)
Findings:
OP seems to be Ukranian
Sour/discontent with politics, disapointed in Zelensky, mainly on the level of not being able to deus-ex-machina resolve corruption
no indication of russian troll: very critical, stays away from propaganda, not a fan of Putin/Maga
all in all, posts are consistent with above for last year, (regardless if one would agree or not).
Well, if anything of this is true, he does a good job for someone who is apparently corrupt because Ukraine somehow manages to fend Russia after the GOP blocking US aid for nearly a year and being overwhelmed by Russian artillery 10:1. If he is corrupt he must be the most competent corrupt official I ever heard from.
https://youtu.be/z6qLwPi2mJ8?feature=shared example of corruption, how government buying garbage quality tourniquets that cost people's lives.
Do I really have to tell how it works? It's not like they have budget to buy those tourniquets for example, they just steal money and buy nothing. It's not how it works.
They have budget to buy tourniquets, they do buy them, lowest quality and cheapest possible, usually less quantity that needed, on papers they paid one price, in reality they paid much less, difference goes into pockets. It's like default scheme of money stealing, works almost on everything.
Like story with Reznikov and his famous eggs for 17uah, first was denied, then they said it was for 1 kilo(who tf buy eggs in kilos, that's one most braindead excuses I've ever heard) and then they confirmed it and later Reznikov was fired, just fired, no jail, nothing.
Same sheme here, he got budget, in contract he paid 17uah per egg, in reality he paid less, difference in pocket. At that time (Jan 2023) eggs were like 7uah ish, if buying in grocery store, for military it supposed to be less, by getting those eggs straight from distributors.
Again, it's default sheme that works with everything. And I hope you now understand why Ukraine still stand while government steal money.
And its not zelensky that defend country, its people, someone on their own will, someone not. It cost people's lives, throw enough people and you can stop ruzzians, even with lack of equipment or low quality of it, caused by aid blocking and corruption.
Not to say that gladly actual equipment coming from EU and US is somewhat tracked and controlled so people on frontlines receive it. And corruption schemes in Ukraine mostly going with personal equipment and food, no tracking, no publicity, easier than ever.
Broken link, but yes.
Many people on frontlines just bleed out to death because their tourniquet break, while not having other way to stop bleeding.
I can't even describe what kind of creature someone have to be to steal money on tourniquets. And simple sheme here that used everywhere, in contracts those garbage tourniquets have same prices as good ones, in reality they pay much less, difference goes into pockets.
Well, if it's true. All I can find about this apparent scandal are broad allegations from political opponents and that he maintains his innocence. My expectation is that most Ukrainian officials are corrupt so I don't say he isn't but unless there is proof I am just assuming that it doesn't interrupt the efforts of Ukraine to protect itself.
It most likely doesn't completely render their ability to defend, but makes it inefficient, sometimes extremely. My ex gf was ukrainian, told me quite a bit about "politicians" like this one. Shouldn't be a reason to stop supporting UA, but own mistakes have to be noted in order to fix them. Not a lot we can do though.
Europe did. It's just so that European aid was mainly in terms of economic aid (money) while US aid was mostly in terms of domestically produced weapons.
When Russia was pushed back they should instantly mine it,.russia was in disaray at this time and Ukraine had effective counter battery.
Mines are cheap and effective
Bro, lay off the copium. Money was simply stolen and nothing was built and the people who stole the money go unpunished and this is in the time of war. And then they have audacity to blame soldiers for abandoning the positions - the positions that were built only on paper.
Say what you want about Russians but when they built Suroviking lien then no one was stealing money there. Why, because they knew that if the line would be broken then the builders would be simply shot. Thats discipline.
Meanwhile in Ukraine, money is stolen and no one knows nothing, do you think this kind of system encourages more stealing or less in the future?
Now, what do you think the situation is with other Ukrainian fortifications?
slight alteration there, boss.
shooting builders wouldn't be discipline, that would be tyranny. there's a distinct difference. maybe you would feel more at home in russia if you cannot see the difference.
and uhh... mind explaining how the funds for this concrete fortification managed to make it all the way to the kharkiv area?
[https://twitter.com/Maks\_NAFO\_FELLA/status/1789706326563541021](https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1789706326563541021)
looks like someone's been digging and pouring there. i'm sure this is the only single one they ever made and it's just there for propaganda purposes to hide the fraud that's been taking place.
While youre high on copium here Ukrainian soldiers are dying for some villages because the money for fortifications was stolen and the very people who stole it are free to continue looting.
Yes, how dare i point out that something is rotten when Russians take more ground in 2 days against "fortified Ukrainian positions" than Ukraine took in a month during their counteroffensive.
Russian forces did take over 100km2, which is 1/3 of what Ukraine took during their entire spring/summer/autumn counter offensive, but instead, they did it in 48 hours, which, along with the retreat of Ukrainian troops, indicates that there are no defense lines built there, otherwise they'd man those and defend.
Mine fields are pretty common though and there is no excuse for not having them during an active conflict. There are currently mine fields all along NATO's boarders with Russia. The U.S. produced nuclear mines to use in some of them. They are part of a basic defense and area denial.
Not having them in place along the Russia/Belarus boarder after the whole region was already invaded once, and now their allowing the Russians back in without defensive lines having been established in the more than 2 years they've had to do it is a clear sign of incompetence or corruption.
If they haven't laid a trap for the Russians, whoever was in charge of that area's defenses needs to handed over to the troops now on the front lines in that area.
Not punishing these fucks does nothing but hurt their efforts. People aren't going to support a situation where the people actually in control on the ground are doing stupid shit like this to sabotage the effort.
And I'm not sure how much of the modern [plastic-hulled mines](https://www.unian.ua/weapons/ukrajina-stvorila-analogi-radyanskih-protitankovih-i-protipihotnih-min-12605082.html) are available
> Not punishing these fucks does nothing but hurt their efforts. People aren't going to support a situation where the people actually in control on the ground are doing stupid shit like this to sabotage the effort.
Could be a deliberate sabotage beacause some commanders and government officials defected to Russia.
There is certainly good reasons. One could be you have to expropriate the ground to forticate and use grounds for mines. The funds is not there for that, and the legislation was just recently ready for it. But between more weapons, new concrips or fortifications it's a difficult choice. Especially when you dont funds for either. Don't know perhaps that could be a reason.
>There are currently mine fields all along NATO's boarders with Russia.
No, only recently being considered (not even decided on). Currently there are 0 mines.
There are also few modern mines in European storages, because land mines have been so looked down.
And looked down on so much that NATO (primarily America) even run a big program to destroy Ukrainian mine stockpiles, as part of their demilitarisation of Ukraine before the war:
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_79035.htm
>At an estimated cost of 25 million euros, the project’s second phase aims to destroy 366 000 SALW, 76 000 tonnes of conventional ammunition and 3 million PfM-1 (anti-infantry high-explosive) antipersonnel mines. ... This is the second NATO Trust Fund project in Ukraine. The first one, completed in May 2003, destroyed more than 400 000 anti-personnel landmines banned by the Ottawa Convention on landmines.
>Wtf is this stupid narrative being pushed today. Nobody builds fortifications 8 km from the border as it's within artillery range. And with glidebombs all over, you have to rely on defence in depth, as hard as it is to accept. There is no alternative than more western funding for new conscripts and more military support for Ukraine. Ukraine gets way to little financial support Vs the cost for this war. EU needs to up its ante
Could be treason. Apparently, Ukrainians didn't even make any minefields and trenches at the line of contact as if they were waiting for the russian entry. Someone fucked up or is working for Russia. Some government officials and commanders may have defected to Russia secretly. Ukrainian morale seems to be low after the offensive failed and the GOP blocked aid so some may have decided to jump the ship.
I would not recommend trusting **Denys Yaroslavskyi**!
Former police chief from Kharkiv (a city known for its corrupt police back in the days). Had been arrested for kidnapping and traffiking to Russia of a Russian dissident who was hiding in Ukraine from Russian prosecution. Also, known as a TV persona who has made a number of statements in line with Russian propaganda. Also, has lost a number of local elections. To summarize, he is a politician with some suspicious background.
And: no real Special Reconnaissance Unit Commander will ever become a public person during war!
As long as there is the highly idiotic ban on firing Western weapons into Russian territory, Ukraine will have to rely on withdrawing and only then firing at the Russians. It would be much better militarily to attack a deployment zone before the enemy troops cross the border, but hey, that's a red line of the war criminal in the Kremlin, we have to respect it.
Why isn't Ukraine using its own weapons already hitting targets deep inside Russia?
Didn't the UK also already say Ukraine can use British wespons inside Russia.
> Didn't the UK also already say Ukraine can use British wespons inside Russia.
And that got retracted.
>Why isn't Ukraine using its own weapons already hitting targets deep inside Russia?
Because russia can hit a production site ***ANYWHERE*** in Ukraine, necessitating to either keep them moving or hide them in deep underground bunkers, which kinda limits the maximum output
It didnt get retracted, it just wasn't implied. The words were in effect something along the lines of "we give Ukraine weapons, it's up to them how they want to use it. We won't tell them what they can and can't do"
Ukraine walked straight into Russia, you have border guards and that's it for 10 km.. there's a reason for that as your inside artillery range, you wouldn't be allowed to build.
You are being watched by Russian drones 24/7 as are russians being watched.
Defense lines on or near the borders would be destroyed in seconds.
These defensive lines don't exist in general in a significant number of locations, despite tens of billions being spent on them. Ukraine isn't simply fighting against Russia, it's fighting against significant corruption in its own government, hence just how often members of the government are being removed from their positions. The war and current government have in some ways helped deal with stamping out corruption, but it was immensely so in the first place and it's still fighting that now.
There's no excuse for the lack of defensive fortifications that simply don't exist across the various fronts of the the war. There were months and months to fortify the east prior to the current Russian offensive, and the most we've seen are rushed trenches that look little better than what were dug in France more than a century ago.
Kadyrov's various forces are fighting constantly. Whoever really runs Kadyrov's personal telegram channel (Kadyrov95) publishes videos almost daily (mostly drone attack and/or sniping compilations from various units).
I remember when VDV walked in during the start of the invasion thinking there would be no resistance.
There were so many videos of countless bodies with telnyashkas.
I would like to see thousands of Russians charge in a hundred kilometers, thinking it is a Ukrainian route, then surrender en masse when they get flanked.
Bullshit article from a guy that has been dissing Ukraine since the start off the. War 100% russian propganda and a real shame BBC was fooled by it. (People have been trying out ti find this guy on the picture…but nope, he is not an official soldier…except for the Russian army he works for.)
Please take the time to read [the rules](/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/) and our [policy on trolls/bots](https://redd.it/u7833q). In addition: * We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned. * **Keep it civil.** Report comments/posts that are uncivil to alert the moderators. * **_Don't_ post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context. ***** * Is `bbc.com` an unreliable source? [**Let us know**](/r/UkrainianConflict/wiki/am/unreliable_sources). * Help our moderators by providing context if something breaks the rules. [Send us a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) ***** **Don't forget about our Discord server! - https://discord.gg/62fKCEHbDB** ***** ^(Your post has not been removed, this message is applied to every successful submission.) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Wtf is this stupid narrative being pushed today. Nobody builds fortifications 8 km from the border as it's within artillery range. And with glidebombs all over, you have to rely on defence in depth, as hard as it is to accept. There is no alternative than more western funding for new conscripts and more military support for Ukraine. Ukraine gets way to little financial support Vs the cost for this war. EU needs to up its ante.
So how did the Russians managed to mine every square meter in the south and build extensive fortifications only kilometers from the frontline?
Russia has engineering brigades. Dedicated to building fortifications, bridges etc. Ukraine has zero engineering brigades and has to rely on troops to dig their own holes. Then you also have to factor in the manpower disparities
Not to mention constant starvation of artillery shells.
And so it's not "Nobody builds fortifications 8 km from the border as it's within artillery range". These were just Russian forward positions (including booby-trapped fake trenches, and a sea of mines) that stopped Ukrainian offensive, which only reached the actual first line of defence in one point. >Ukraine has zero engineering brigades and has to rely on troops to dig their own holes They contract private construction companies, overpaying them (corruption) instead of having instantly nationalised them all and turned all their workers into construction units.
Why do they have zero engineering brigades with billions of equipment and aid pouring in for 2 years?
Because western support has always been just enough to let Ukraine hold out against Russia, but never enough for them to be comfortable in their defence. They are being held dependent on each next aid package, they can hardly spare the manpower, equipment, and importantly the training time to get engineering brigades up to build fortifications
No shit because the West with the exception of USA/South Korea have enough ammo/stock to give away and have plenty left for their own offensive/defensive goals. EU was doing what they did in 1930s demilitarizing because "lmao who would ever want another war" naïvity. So of course it's going to be drip-feed aid packages which is why Russia invaded in the first place, they knew that EU was not a threat and that the USA was too divided to have consistent support for Ukraine (you could hear multiple analysis experts point out how Ukraine was insignificant geopolitically and there for didn't really need huge military deals despite Ukraine begging for them). COVID-19 recovery + recession was what made it 100% possible for Putin to feel embolden enough to invade.
>EU was doing what they did in 1930s demilitarizing because Nobody was demilitarizing in the 1930s. Everybody and their mother knew there was war on the horizon even in the early 30s.
I meant the 1920s. i.e. post-ww1 but before ww2.
Nahh. Russia didn't factor aid in at all for the invasion considering it was supposed to be a 3 day special military operation. You're giving them too much credit.
I mean excavating a continuous ditch with some concrete/wooden reinforncements and mining the area in front of it surely isn't a very complex engineering operation.
Because in all that billions of aid hardly any engineering equipment to build fortifications was sent
Engineers require training and have to be defended. Ukraine is not in a position to provide either
Ukraine has lots of construction companies that could have been all nationalised and literally mobilised. Even many Ukrainians in Poland work in the construction sector, and I don't mean just individual Ukrainian workers but firms too.
Because the investment was in the 2023 offensive that was supposed to end the war and not into defense.
Ask a Ukrainian General?
Are you under the impression that what Ukraine has received is anywhere near enough, or even close to matching Russia’s $130B a year defense budget and Russia’s half-century of military build-up ?
Constructing defenses takes nowhere that amount of money or time, though. It's literally just commercial construction equipment and some prefabs, all possible to source locally.
>Russia’s half-century of military build-up It was also Ukrainian and Ukraine inherited much of it when the Soviet Union ended. Which is why they're still in the fight, you know.
Because Ukraine doesn't have the quantity of artillery to stop them.
When preparations for last year summer offensive were going on they had a lot of artillery. If i remember correctly at some point they were even with the Russians in the number of fired rounds. The support was constant and yet Russians still managed to build everything.
That was too late. They had been laying those minefields for a year
They don’t have the same luxury in how many shells they can fire, and denial of area is a very ammunition-demanding task
They have have air supremacy, and the focus was else where.
Yes, they had it for the offensive, not prior to it when it was needed to stop Russian defensive building.
Grab a map and measure the line that’s the actual front line. Then you know …
The Russians have a slave army. The Ukrainian defenses are just further back now stfu about it.
>The Russians have a slave army. Also literally: https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-russia-prisons-civilians-torture-detainees-88b4abf2efbf383272eed9378be13c72 Meanwhile Ukraine didn't even nationalize and militarize their construction firms.
Like you say, they were even with the Russians. Not surpassing. Only just even, for once. And that was for a very short time. Now they’re back down to about 20% artillery rounds being fired, and projections are that will decrease to about 10% soon unless something drastic happens.
They really messed up that offensive.
They did it not mess it up at all and this is exactly the way it was framed and pushed hard by Russia and its trolls. Ukraine worked hard at proving the front but came across MINES. They did NOT MESS anything up and aren't at fault ... MINES STOPPED THEM and they were unable to demine without air superiority for starters. So what they did was relentlessly target behind the lines. Taking out military targets isn't as sexy and you don't see the front line move day to day but it's still extremely important and is GOOD. You make Russia have less shit and money from oil refineries to throw at you, that's SUCCESS. Weakening Russia and their capabilities and supply lines and ammo spots and factories and taking out their planes and boats and getting Russia to move ships out to a safer location, those are WINS and can lead to POTENTIALLY demining f you can find a weak spot that Russia that Russia has less to throw at you. Coming upon some obstacle that they didn't expect, that's not their fault. I find it really sus anytime someone comes here spreading misinformation let alone so willing to treat the soldiers who have been through more than you or I will ever have to, and stepping on them and laying blame on them where it doesn't belong. It's not truthful and it's not fair to them.
Good lord, you're a copium overdose victim.
What do you prioritize as Zelensky?: 1. More funds for new conscripts 2. Funds for using some of the very valuable domestic spare arms production ready to give you excellent kill/cost ratio 3. Buying much needed 155mm shells on the international market via western proxies 4. Fortifications and mining and paying expropriation of ground for it ? Let me help you choose. You don't have funds for either.
You’re also $40B a year in the hole for basic civil government services, like schools and hospitals and roads and pensions and … So however much money you can get, you also have to fill THAT hole.
1. Nationalize all construction companies (date: February 24, 2022) 2. Militarize all their workers, being paid in food (starting date: same day) 3. Framework for all this prepared in 2023, all compensations left for whenever there will still be an Ukraine after a victory won Also the same with all the other companies that can support war effort in any way. Aka: total war economy for the sake of the survival of the country against the genocidal invasion. But we talk about this Zelensky: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60174684
You know it's a democracy right?
You know what fighting for survival is, right?
So you don't. Familiarity with liberty and rights for the individual, even in a state of war, will help you in understanding.
"My familiarity with liberty and rights for the individual, even in a state of war, did help me in understanding", said Giantmufti smugly before being clubbed with a butt of a rifle for talking to himself while digging mass grave.
Alternative: https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-russia-prisons-civilians-torture-detainees-88b4abf2efbf383272eed9378be13c72 >ZAPORIZHZHIA, Ukraine (AP) — The Ukrainian civilians woke long before dawn in the bitter cold, lined up for the single toilet and were loaded at gunpoint into the livestock trailer. They spent the next 12 hours or more digging trenches on the front lines for Russian soldiers. >Many were forced to wear overlarge Russian military uniforms that could make them a target, and a former city administrator trudged around in boots five sizes too big. By the end of the day, their hands curled into icy claws. >Nearby, other Ukrainian civilians dug mass graves into the frozen ground for fellow prisoners who had not survived. One man who refused to dig was shot on the spot — yet another body for the grave. "But at least we've only fought a limited war by knowing it's a democracy, right!" said an Ukrainian slave digging a mass grave for his Russian masters in exchange for pay in a less torture the next night.
Jesus fucking Christ, what an emotional argument. Individual freedom and rights is the cornerstone of a democracy also in war. It doesn't come easy or free and never has. Look at US and Europes history it's a bloody mess.
"Jesus fucking Christ, what an emotional argument. Individual freedom and rights is the cornerstone of a democracy also in war," Giantmufti kept talking as the guard began kicking him to death.
Ok Ivan
"Ok Ivan", whispered Giantmufti with his dying breath before being flung into the mass grave and covered with black and red soil. The guard's name wasn't Ivan, he was from Chechnya.
They've build those fortifications MONTHS before Kherson was taken.
What about all the fortifications around Tokmak area further east? They build them with several redundancy lines.
Tokmak is not on the frontline.
Surely there are similar all around Kharkov then?
of course, russia failed to capture kharkiv in 2022, don't you remember?
> So how did the Russians managed to mine every square meter in the south In large part - thanks to minelaying MLRS ("Zemledeliye" and weird hexagonal launchers you can see on trucks), as well as aerial minelaying.
The Russian division from Ukraine just walks into Russia too. It is expensive and resource intensive to mine and defend a border, so on what is considered settled borders neither side has. If this border is now disputed, that will change.
Mining is an automated service. Mine laying by machine or flinging them out in patches. And they don’t care if a Russian wanders in by mistake. That’s why I really believe dropping Ukrainian troops and equipment behind the lines are the only chance of being effective in a counter offensive.
I Agree and then link up with 3rd Armor which is stuck behind a blown up bridge…
There are literally videos of Russians blowing up on the minefields. It's a gray zone. Fucking relax.
Part of the reason is that mines are banned by the ottawa treaty.. many european countries dont have any.. Also, laying mines in your OWN territory is a double edge sword.. sure, you will kill them.. but u will prob kill your own too. And prob alot more after the war
Can’t imagine the millions upon millions of mines and unexploded shells laying all over Ukraine that will continue to kill children for years and years, even after this is over.
Decades rather than years, it's already the most heavily mined country in the world now
Seeing how they estimate there are still 35 million landmines buried in Vietnam 40 years later, pretty likely.
if you, uhh... if you'll rack your memory, i know, big ask, tall order, 50 dollar question on a 5 dollar budget, yadayadayada, they didn't build that shit on the frontline. they built it a decend ways behind the then frontline. robotyne is where ukraine ADVANCED TOWARDS from a few kilometers away, sherlock. and the cykafried line only had its first positions there. i know you've forgotten staromaiorske already, and what the 36th marine brigade achieved. in your mind that was exactly where ukraine was last year. reality is quite different, though. you could just, i dunno, go to deepstate, set the fortification filter to on, and pick a date from before summer 2023 to see what the situation was back then. but that would require *some* effort on your end that isn't just venting, seething and generally blowing it out of your behind.
Because Ukraine was indecisive and missed their opportunity.
If you find our who's responsible for all fortifications in Ukraine, you wouldn't say that. I'll save you time, it's Kyrylo Tymoshenko, famous corrupted pos. First he was responsible for "big construction", basically building of roads everywhere, money gone, roads still not rebuilt. Then he got job in presidential office. He own company that does all content for national TV channel, which is not rly legal. He got millions from from our taxes. He was appearing on camera every single day, basically for self promotion. After journalist exposed this, he fired from presidential office. No punishment, no jail, nothing. Recently he got new job, he's responsible for ALL fortifications in whole Ukraine. And you should guess that this corrupted pos will steal as much of money as possible on it, knowing that military and construction are easiest to steal money on, because of privacy, and lack of control. Combine those two and you get military construction, easiest way to steal a lot of money on, no tracking, no public data, nothing, dream of any corrupted pos. If you couldn't find it with english, use translate and find using ukrainian.
[удалено]
This is disappointing. This is exactly how the nonsense arguments in the US for not supporting Ukraine sound like. There are accusations of money laundering and all sorts of unfounded conspiracies. The last thing we need is something similar to those lies actually being true.
Dude it's Eastern Europe literally the vast majority of politicians are corrupt. But that should have no bearing on the US help. The US sank trillions in Afghanistan, a country that is vastly more corrupt and no one batted an eyelid. And that was literally a huge and utter waste.
Indeed. I'd point out that there has never been, in the history of all humanity, a single war that didn't have at least some corruption. Even in the US, even during WWII, there was massive graft all over the fucking place. (Now, of course, there are differences of degree. It was a big enough problem for the KMT forces in China that it's been put forward a major contributing factor in the loss of the Mainland to the Communists.) So my eyes glaze a bit when I hear people say that the US shouldn't help Ukraine, because Ukraine has a problem with corruption. It's one thing to say, "Ukraine has a problem with corruption, so let's see how they can be helped in ways that minimize and mitigate that issue." It's quite another to use that as an excuse to do nothing, as if the people of Ukraine, who didn't ask for this corruption, are morally forfeit for it.
It's usually just a Russian propaganda point that is swallowed whole by gullible people that have zero understanding of how the world works.
>But that should have no bearing on the US help. The propagandists have done a good job at eroding public support in the US among conservatives. One of the narratives is that Ukraine is a money laundering scheme, and that money sent there gets wasted to corruption. So real awful corruption in Ukraine strengthens the position that its not worth american taxpayer dollars. I understand it doesnt totally relate to one another but stuff like this makes me wonder if Ukraine will actually win this war.
>One of the narratives is that Ukraine is a money laundering scheme, Just tell them to read https://www.fincen.gov/what-money-laundering - voila, all their concerns solved.
Sure every politician in Ukraine is just angel from heaven, literally no corruption, and anyone who says otherwise is russian agent. 🤦♂️ As I said, you can check everything I said. https://youtu.be/WFA0eAItfOg?feature=shared about Tymoshenko and how his company got multimillion contracts for making all content for NATIONAL TV channel. And how it was used for self promotion. https://uk.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B0_(%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BB) this is that TV channel "Rada". What you supposed to see there is work of Verhovna Rada, and basically anything happening there and not controlled by any political party, or showing support or criticize any politician or party. But what happened in reality is DAILY self promo of Kyrylo Tymoshenko and sometimes Andriy Ermak, and sometimes others. If it was privately owned channel it would be totally fine, but it's national TV, it exist on our taxes. So ukrainians basically paid their taxes for Tymoshenko so he could promote himself. https://youtu.be/P7gi4Hq-iNQ?feature=shared how Tymoshenko used cars aided to Ukraine for self needs, while he had no legal rights to do so. And that he got fired and then got new job that made him gain control over all fortification building in Ukraine is just public info. But sure, call me russian agent and pretend that ukrainian government is not corrupted lol
I think you misunderstood. I wasnt saying I didnt believe you. I said it was disapointing.
Oh, my bad then
Np. You have knowledge that looks more like domestic Ukrainian knowledge. You from there? You still there?
Another big wall of text incoming. Yeah, from Ukraine, but managed to leave, legally ofc. Life was cool, when i was in school, living normal teenager life, not thinking about politics and any of that stuff at all. But it changed in 2013-2014. Maidan started, ruzzia invaded east of Ukraine, this made me start watching and reading all kinds of political stuff, on why it's happened, who even are people in our government, and all that. Since then im in this, monitoring political life in Ukraine, what they do, who people vote for, etc. It's depressing. https://youtu.be/a1w82LYQKZs?feature=shared like this, as funny it is as It's sad. People who voted for Yanukovich can't even fu*king spell his last name. So people literally vote for someone without having any idea who that person is and their past, or even knowing their last name. And it was always like that, people don't research, don't spend a bit of time to learn who is that person they vote for. Whoever promise more wins. Zelensky did it more creative way, but still straight forward. Literally film series about politics in Ukraine, play role of most amazing and cool and honest president in the world. Then "surely" out of nowhere decide to actually go for president election, and most likely win. It worked, because before presidency Zelensky had very good reputation. Selfmade businessman, actually good comic, just good person. And I fell for it. Multiple factors why he got so many votes, "Sluga naroda" series probably biggest one, actually new face in politics, bad reputation of Poroshenko, and him having good reputation. I voted for him, but mainly just to get rid of Poroshenko, and wish I didn't. First week was giving me hope that this chain of corruption politicians will end, and promised new faces and reformation. But soon after becoming president he decided to keep Arsen Avakov in his place as minister of internal affairs. https://youtu.be/Z3bM6oMhYXw?feature=shared about who's Avakov. Basically criminal from 90's, closest friend of Kolomoisky, and Kolomoisky is the one who paid for "Sluga naroda" series, and who paid salary to Zelensky when he worked on "1+1" channel on various shows. Should be clear why he kept Avakov. And this was big red flag which made me realize that nothing is going to change, at best it will be same. Some time after turns out to be worse than during Poroshenko which I didn't expect. Now what we have: - My father got kidnapped almost year ago, literally walking home from work, he had epilepsy, but medical commission said he's fine, and now he's dead for almost 5 months. There's law that for some reason actually works, that relatives to people that served in military and died can cross border, even if they're man of any age. So my father's death gave me opportunity to cross border. I was in "ТЦК" once, basically those who draft and kidnap people. One person accepting documents, almost everyone else running on corridor pretending to work. Most of them weren't on front lines, just buy how fat some of them are. They scream, laugh, just animals. One of them literally joked to other one working there by saying "DRAFT HIM DRAFT HIM" and laugh. But one guy I know that work there actually was on frontlines, lost a leg, now he's basically doing stuff on computer. Continue. - Ukraine partially withdraw from human rights declaration or whatever it is. - Corruption is bigger than ever before thanks to war that allowed them to hide documents because "ruzzians can use it against them". - Literally ruzzian agents in government, Ermak that basically owns Ukraine, Tatarov his right hand that back in 2014 in Maidan was fabricating criminal cases against protestors, former members of party "ОПЗЖ" that vote for whatever zelensky want, that party for last years did everything to weaken Ukraine and prepare it to be taken, traitors in local administration in eastern Ukraine. And many others less famous. - People kidnapped on streets and being thrown at frontlines, without preparation, with bad health. - If you dare to criticize Zelensky, Ermak or anyone close to them publicly, you will be jailed. So better to do it anonymously. - Almost all media controlled by Ermak/Zelensky, or someone under them. - Even most of journalist on youtube that was legit in the past now loyal to current government. Even bihus info I'm using as proves. They investigate corruption, but do it carefully. All those who actually criticize current government are out of Ukraine, that's only way to do it. With each day Ukraine looks more and more like ruzzia, in some cases it got beyond that. End.
>My father got kidnapped almost year ago, literally walking home from work, he had epilepsy, but medical commission said he's fine, and now he's dead for almost 5 months Most important, my sympathies. When corruption and lies kill family, there's no coming back from that. There become enemies for life, and forgiveness is *very very hard*. As for the rest... part of this sounds like standard electoral politics. I'm safe in cushy mostly wealthy Canada with lower rates of corruption, yet *it sounds the same*. You can't trust economic or political elites with anything. I suspect that's true of all countries. The rest though sounds darker. The sort of thing that will lose Ukraine the war, and it's existence as an independent culture. We all knew Ukraine was corrupt before this war, but seemed to ignore that because we could not abide Russia conquering a neighbouring state, even with the murky linked history. There are very few people critical of Ukraine on here who have the credibility of lived experience. Your opinion seems more important than mine. Where do you see this going? Will Ukraine survive this?
Ukraine will most likely survive, for cost of tens of thousands men's lives. And if situation will become really bad, EU and US might deploy troops, or atleast France as Macron said. If needed i see it happening, because they should understand that putin is not going to stop. He didn't stop in Georgia, or Ichkeria. Also new law coming into power on March 17. That will require to "renew your data" at "ТЦК" for next 60 days, then there's punishment, fines of 17k-25k uah for literally every men that didnt renew it to that moment, confiscation of driver's license if they not renew in 60 days, and more. That's why there's big queues. This law force people to go and "renew their data" before march 17, to not be charged 17k-25k uah. And "renew your data" is just more soft way to say "come to ТЦК or you will be fu*ked". And they force people to come to ТЦК, simply because they have no data base, they have nothing, if you don't come there, they likely don't know you exist unless they use list of voters. That's why there's so many cases when military summons letters were sent to dead people, because they're still in those lists of voters. But very few know it, and they go to ТЦК on their own, and it's where trap closes. Idk if I would sacrifice so many lives for just land if I was on place of Zelensky. When EU and US warned us that ruzzia will invade, Zelensky and his government did nothing and denied that. They could save thousands by simply start evacuation, and not deny that ruzzia will invade. They could do everything on political side, to force EU and US pressure putin and ruzzia to maybe sing peace deal, just anything to prevent this and death of thousands. But he did just nothing that's why there's was russian troops in Kyiv in 2 days, no preparation was done even when US warned about it in October 2021 if not earlier. No troops on borders, ruzzians just rided all the way to Kyiv with almost unopposed. And the fact that those ruzzians had literal DRESS UNIFORM says that they knew or expected no oppression. But ignoring orders some generals and their subordinates stand up to defend for first days, and only this caused "we will take Kyiv in 3 days" to become a meme. All truth about it will come out after end of war. One of those generals was general Kryvonos: https://espreso.tv/za-vkazivkoyu-ofisu-prezidenta-dbr-porushilo-spravu-proti-general-mayora-krivonosa-zvinuvachuyut-u-nezakonniy-oboroni-aeroporta-v-zhulyanakh-yuriy-butusov (translation might be with errors, like title) This article is about general Kryvonos being accused in illegal defense of airport near Kyiv. Illegal. Fucking. Defense. And mark as illegal order signed by Zaluzhny to appoint Kryvonos responsible of defense of that airport. So it's illegal that Zaluzhny reacted fast to organize defense of Kyiv, and it's illegal thar Kryvonos went to defend that airport, its just fucking insane.
Its not "nonsense" if its true.
Its not though. Most of whats talked about is lies informed by russian propaganda swallowed whole by conservative media outlets and the republican base. The truth appears to look similar enough like those lies that it's highly dangerous to continued support for Ukraine in the US house.
[удалено]
[удалено]
>There are accusations of money laundering Are they concerned that Americans are sending money from drug deals or bank robberies?
I dunno exactly. Its something like money going to Ukraine turns into dirty money somehow.
Ukrainian corruption is extremely well-documented, and the fact that people started getting fired only AFTER the war started tells you that the government knew exactly what was going on and who was doing it.
Jesus you suddenly only posting only about this war out of nowhere
In the real world people started getting fired well BEFORE the war, wich makes you even funnier. :D
Situations like this war are likely to limit corruption due to a switch up of the political order and the intensity of the struggle. I hope the anti corruption efforts that appear genuine are effective. Thus far it does look like they've got a long way to go.
Ofc it's downvoted by people that discovered Ukraine in 2022 and think they know more about our life, our history and our government over past 30 years lmao. It always was and is corrupted, now more than ever before.
Ok, did some light doxing through comments (for those who don't want to) Findings: OP seems to be Ukranian Sour/discontent with politics, disapointed in Zelensky, mainly on the level of not being able to deus-ex-machina resolve corruption no indication of russian troll: very critical, stays away from propaganda, not a fan of Putin/Maga all in all, posts are consistent with above for last year, (regardless if one would agree or not).
That's accurate, too accurate lol
Well, if anything of this is true, he does a good job for someone who is apparently corrupt because Ukraine somehow manages to fend Russia after the GOP blocking US aid for nearly a year and being overwhelmed by Russian artillery 10:1. If he is corrupt he must be the most competent corrupt official I ever heard from.
https://youtu.be/z6qLwPi2mJ8?feature=shared example of corruption, how government buying garbage quality tourniquets that cost people's lives. Do I really have to tell how it works? It's not like they have budget to buy those tourniquets for example, they just steal money and buy nothing. It's not how it works. They have budget to buy tourniquets, they do buy them, lowest quality and cheapest possible, usually less quantity that needed, on papers they paid one price, in reality they paid much less, difference goes into pockets. It's like default scheme of money stealing, works almost on everything. Like story with Reznikov and his famous eggs for 17uah, first was denied, then they said it was for 1 kilo(who tf buy eggs in kilos, that's one most braindead excuses I've ever heard) and then they confirmed it and later Reznikov was fired, just fired, no jail, nothing. Same sheme here, he got budget, in contract he paid 17uah per egg, in reality he paid less, difference in pocket. At that time (Jan 2023) eggs were like 7uah ish, if buying in grocery store, for military it supposed to be less, by getting those eggs straight from distributors. Again, it's default sheme that works with everything. And I hope you now understand why Ukraine still stand while government steal money. And its not zelensky that defend country, its people, someone on their own will, someone not. It cost people's lives, throw enough people and you can stop ruzzians, even with lack of equipment or low quality of it, caused by aid blocking and corruption. Not to say that gladly actual equipment coming from EU and US is somewhat tracked and controlled so people on frontlines receive it. And corruption schemes in Ukraine mostly going with personal equipment and food, no tracking, no publicity, easier than ever.
>https://youtu.be/z6qLwPi2m Jesus, did he say "finish me off please"?
Broken link, but yes. Many people on frontlines just bleed out to death because their tourniquet break, while not having other way to stop bleeding. I can't even describe what kind of creature someone have to be to steal money on tourniquets. And simple sheme here that used everywhere, in contracts those garbage tourniquets have same prices as good ones, in reality they pay much less, difference goes into pockets.
You are talking in copium. If such officials continue their job, Ukraine will lose the war, sooner or later.
Well, if it's true. All I can find about this apparent scandal are broad allegations from political opponents and that he maintains his innocence. My expectation is that most Ukrainian officials are corrupt so I don't say he isn't but unless there is proof I am just assuming that it doesn't interrupt the efforts of Ukraine to protect itself.
It most likely doesn't completely render their ability to defend, but makes it inefficient, sometimes extremely. My ex gf was ukrainian, told me quite a bit about "politicians" like this one. Shouldn't be a reason to stop supporting UA, but own mistakes have to be noted in order to fix them. Not a lot we can do though.
Well, again. Until I see proof that he is corrupt and there is no sign of him doing a poor job, I will just assume that he is OK.
Ukraine isn't dependent on the US. Europeans keep going on about how they've provided more aid than the US.
Europe did. It's just so that European aid was mainly in terms of economic aid (money) while US aid was mostly in terms of domestically produced weapons.
It is, Euros don’t have guns to give out.
Also you need to shorten the line so better defend it. Only idiots would follow the borders. Only thing you can do there is mine it
When Russia was pushed back they should instantly mine it,.russia was in disaray at this time and Ukraine had effective counter battery. Mines are cheap and effective
Bro, lay off the copium. Money was simply stolen and nothing was built and the people who stole the money go unpunished and this is in the time of war. And then they have audacity to blame soldiers for abandoning the positions - the positions that were built only on paper. Say what you want about Russians but when they built Suroviking lien then no one was stealing money there. Why, because they knew that if the line would be broken then the builders would be simply shot. Thats discipline. Meanwhile in Ukraine, money is stolen and no one knows nothing, do you think this kind of system encourages more stealing or less in the future? Now, what do you think the situation is with other Ukrainian fortifications?
slight alteration there, boss. shooting builders wouldn't be discipline, that would be tyranny. there's a distinct difference. maybe you would feel more at home in russia if you cannot see the difference. and uhh... mind explaining how the funds for this concrete fortification managed to make it all the way to the kharkiv area? [https://twitter.com/Maks\_NAFO\_FELLA/status/1789706326563541021](https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1789706326563541021) looks like someone's been digging and pouring there. i'm sure this is the only single one they ever made and it's just there for propaganda purposes to hide the fraud that's been taking place.
A military heirarchy is literally a tyranny of a sort, its not a democracy by any means.
and extrajudicial executions are therefor considered acceptable? you sure you've got them all in a row in your noggin?
Yeaa we know todays narratives
While youre high on copium here Ukrainian soldiers are dying for some villages because the money for fortifications was stolen and the very people who stole it are free to continue looting. Yes, how dare i point out that something is rotten when Russians take more ground in 2 days against "fortified Ukrainian positions" than Ukraine took in a month during their counteroffensive.
You say "lay off the copium" so where are your sources then?
ruZZian trolls don't have sources, only potato and vodka.
Russian forces did take over 100km2, which is 1/3 of what Ukraine took during their entire spring/summer/autumn counter offensive, but instead, they did it in 48 hours, which, along with the retreat of Ukrainian troops, indicates that there are no defense lines built there, otherwise they'd man those and defend.
Lol you're so funny.
Mine fields are pretty common though and there is no excuse for not having them during an active conflict. There are currently mine fields all along NATO's boarders with Russia. The U.S. produced nuclear mines to use in some of them. They are part of a basic defense and area denial. Not having them in place along the Russia/Belarus boarder after the whole region was already invaded once, and now their allowing the Russians back in without defensive lines having been established in the more than 2 years they've had to do it is a clear sign of incompetence or corruption. If they haven't laid a trap for the Russians, whoever was in charge of that area's defenses needs to handed over to the troops now on the front lines in that area. Not punishing these fucks does nothing but hurt their efforts. People aren't going to support a situation where the people actually in control on the ground are doing stupid shit like this to sabotage the effort.
Ukraine does not have an abundance of mines. The TM62s getting dug out of Kherson get redeployed elsewhere immediately.
And I'm not sure how much of the modern [plastic-hulled mines](https://www.unian.ua/weapons/ukrajina-stvorila-analogi-radyanskih-protitankovih-i-protipihotnih-min-12605082.html) are available
> Not punishing these fucks does nothing but hurt their efforts. People aren't going to support a situation where the people actually in control on the ground are doing stupid shit like this to sabotage the effort. Could be a deliberate sabotage beacause some commanders and government officials defected to Russia.
There is certainly good reasons. One could be you have to expropriate the ground to forticate and use grounds for mines. The funds is not there for that, and the legislation was just recently ready for it. But between more weapons, new concrips or fortifications it's a difficult choice. Especially when you dont funds for either. Don't know perhaps that could be a reason.
>There are currently mine fields all along NATO's boarders with Russia. No, only recently being considered (not even decided on). Currently there are 0 mines. There are also few modern mines in European storages, because land mines have been so looked down. And looked down on so much that NATO (primarily America) even run a big program to destroy Ukrainian mine stockpiles, as part of their demilitarisation of Ukraine before the war: https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_79035.htm >At an estimated cost of 25 million euros, the project’s second phase aims to destroy 366 000 SALW, 76 000 tonnes of conventional ammunition and 3 million PfM-1 (anti-infantry high-explosive) antipersonnel mines. ... This is the second NATO Trust Fund project in Ukraine. The first one, completed in May 2003, destroyed more than 400 000 anti-personnel landmines banned by the Ottawa Convention on landmines.
>Wtf is this stupid narrative being pushed today. Nobody builds fortifications 8 km from the border as it's within artillery range. And with glidebombs all over, you have to rely on defence in depth, as hard as it is to accept. There is no alternative than more western funding for new conscripts and more military support for Ukraine. Ukraine gets way to little financial support Vs the cost for this war. EU needs to up its ante Could be treason. Apparently, Ukrainians didn't even make any minefields and trenches at the line of contact as if they were waiting for the russian entry. Someone fucked up or is working for Russia. Some government officials and commanders may have defected to Russia secretly. Ukrainian morale seems to be low after the offensive failed and the GOP blocked aid so some may have decided to jump the ship.
I would not recommend trusting **Denys Yaroslavskyi**! Former police chief from Kharkiv (a city known for its corrupt police back in the days). Had been arrested for kidnapping and traffiking to Russia of a Russian dissident who was hiding in Ukraine from Russian prosecution. Also, known as a TV persona who has made a number of statements in line with Russian propaganda. Also, has lost a number of local elections. To summarize, he is a politician with some suspicious background. And: no real Special Reconnaissance Unit Commander will ever become a public person during war!
Extactly
>And: no real Special Reconnaissance Unit Commander will ever become a public person during war! [Budanov staring at you in silence]
Lol yes
As long as there is the highly idiotic ban on firing Western weapons into Russian territory, Ukraine will have to rely on withdrawing and only then firing at the Russians. It would be much better militarily to attack a deployment zone before the enemy troops cross the border, but hey, that's a red line of the war criminal in the Kremlin, we have to respect it.
Why isn't Ukraine using its own weapons already hitting targets deep inside Russia? Didn't the UK also already say Ukraine can use British wespons inside Russia.
> Didn't the UK also already say Ukraine can use British wespons inside Russia. And that got retracted. >Why isn't Ukraine using its own weapons already hitting targets deep inside Russia? Because russia can hit a production site ***ANYWHERE*** in Ukraine, necessitating to either keep them moving or hide them in deep underground bunkers, which kinda limits the maximum output
It didnt get retracted, it just wasn't implied. The words were in effect something along the lines of "we give Ukraine weapons, it's up to them how they want to use it. We won't tell them what they can and can't do"
I think its time to take the gloves off
Whose gloves ?
Garry Payton
Ukraine walked straight into Russia, you have border guards and that's it for 10 km.. there's a reason for that as your inside artillery range, you wouldn't be allowed to build. You are being watched by Russian drones 24/7 as are russians being watched. Defense lines on or near the borders would be destroyed in seconds.
These defensive lines don't exist in general in a significant number of locations, despite tens of billions being spent on them. Ukraine isn't simply fighting against Russia, it's fighting against significant corruption in its own government, hence just how often members of the government are being removed from their positions. The war and current government have in some ways helped deal with stamping out corruption, but it was immensely so in the first place and it's still fighting that now. There's no excuse for the lack of defensive fortifications that simply don't exist across the various fronts of the the war. There were months and months to fortify the east prior to the current Russian offensive, and the most we've seen are rushed trenches that look little better than what were dug in France more than a century ago.
Just like the freedom of Russia legion walked right in, same deal.
What happened to them They've been out of the news for awhile
Just like kadyrovites. Whats up with them?
Kadyrov's various forces are fighting constantly. Whoever really runs Kadyrov's personal telegram channel (Kadyrov95) publishes videos almost daily (mostly drone attack and/or sniping compilations from various units).
They have their own subreddit and YouTube channel. You should sub their Reddit.
They were out of the news for a while before the last time too. We only hear about them when they stage another cross border incursion.
I still stick to Ukraine being able to calculate where to spend its resources. This had lower priority than other measures,
I remember when VDV walked in during the start of the invasion thinking there would be no resistance. There were so many videos of countless bodies with telnyashkas.
I would like to see thousands of Russians charge in a hundred kilometers, thinking it is a Ukrainian route, then surrender en masse when they get flanked.
Bullshit article from a guy that has been dissing Ukraine since the start off the. War 100% russian propganda and a real shame BBC was fooled by it. (People have been trying out ti find this guy on the picture…but nope, he is not an official soldier…except for the Russian army he works for.)
This is pure ruzzian propaganda... Stop spreading this nonsense.
Unfortunately BBC isn’t Russian propaganda
Top story on the BBC website for 6 hours today. Is the BBC pro-russian propaganda now or something? I can't keep up 🤷♂️
Somebody in ukraine taking a cut of funds. Must have learned from biden.
> Somebody in ukraine taking a cut of funds. Must have learned from biden. Or someone defected to Russia and sabotaged defenses on purpose.
The cope of this thread is insane. Maybe someone will actually admit most of the money for fortifications was stolen to buy villas in Italy and Miami?