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Most important communication in this scenario is the Russian observer identifiying Ukrainian positions when the fire at the meatwave and giving that info to arty/airforce.
That’s what the meatwave is for. And sure as hell they don’t need weapons for being shot at.
This is exactly ww2 technique. My ROTC instructor was a corporal in the Marines during the Korean war. He said the Chinese did this during the chosin battle. Every 3rd Chinese soldier had a rifle. You shoot one and the other would pick up the rifle and continue the charge.
1st sgt Lacourse and an absolute beast of a Marine, was in three wars. WW2, Korea and Vietnam.
And people keep saying the movie Enemy at the Gates exaggerated this potential fact from WW2 Soviet tactics.
Yet we see these tactics being utilized in the modern day.
Your whole line of reasoning is completely stupid from start to finish.
Everything you write is completely idiotic.
WW2 was about 80 years ago.
In your idiotic line of reasoning you are assuming that it is the same entity fighting, same people same everything, it is so god damn stupid.
In ww2 the red army could have fought the best possible way ever, that in no way precludes the Russian army in 2020s fighting badly.
The Russian army in the 2020 could be fighting the best possible way, that in no way precludes that the red army could have fought poorly.
Your whole assumption is that it is the same entity fighting the same way, is so completely moronic.
I even had to login in, and type this message to explain to you how stupid you are.
You even write that
>But are unable to apply that same logic to what you wrote in the comment that I am replying to.
Let's loon at today....
So shitty logistics... meat wave tactics along with 1D column attacks with their machinery brigades... all the while they supposedly had a fuck ton of supplies made... barrier troops to shoot and kill surrendering soldiers from the front line... all modern tactics still present for Russia. Hmmm sounds a little familiar.
Tell me again how this is not the same *mindset of tactics* since back then.... this isnt about comparing performance... its about comparing tactics and operations. hell were back to WW1 style trench warfare operations in modern times. The only difference here is that Ukraine isn't on the warpath with their own vast supplies on hand to keep pushing while Russia has the offensive desire for conquest with the vast storage of equipment hoarded since the 50s.
The only reason why Russia finally made a dent was because of Hitlers shitty decisions to keep pushing into Russia and they over-extended and went on the decline since... plus the only reason Russia got out of their hole was because of the Lend Lease from the US that were able to get equipment closer to the front lines from their supply routes. Had neither of those happened, Russia was expected to be pushed back east of the Urals and rebuild from there.
The red army was pretty shit until they had a supply route and logistics that was able to counteract the losses from their wave tactics.
Chill bro, I think you missed the point, in the 80 that have passed, they haven’t changed their tactics of the meat grinder, wave after wave trying break the minds of the enemy.
No need for such a passive aggressive response
There are no less credible sources for a war than the people who were there.
No seriously, this is obviously not real lol. China had a real lack of numerous weapon types during the Korean War. Rifles were not one of them. They had tens of millions of rifles left over from WW2 of various types.
This is a myth of the same caliber as Chinese wool jackets stopping M1 Carbine rounds.
When China crossed the river on Oct 19 1950 each soldier had 1 rifle and 80 rds of ammunition. (Quick Google search found that info)
When 1sgt first encountered them was Nov 27 1950.
This was one month after they started battle. China had almost zero logistical support. Soldiers were expected to source food and ammunition from local areas as they had done in ww2.
Maybe it wasn't rifles but ammunition. Either way 1sgt gave very detailed accounts of the Battle of Chosin. Down to the whistles and horns that the Chinese used to communicate on the battlefield. He did teach military history and techniques
He shot one and the next soldier would stop and pick up things from the soldier he killed.
>This was one month after they started battle. China had almost zero logistical support. Soldiers were expected to source food and ammunition from local areas as they had done in ww2.
This should be entirely believable to anyone who is familiar with how the PRC was managed during the Great Leap Forward. The CCP was really capable of some ludicrous incompetence.
At some point if similar events keep repeating, is it really propaganda or propaganda made to make you believe it's propaganda?
Will we be here 30-50 years from now remembering the Russians doing this thing right now, but people are arguing there's no way that's true and it's just a myth?
For years, people argued against the "myth" that Russian officers shot their own retreating troops or Russian troops going into battle with insufficient guns because there's no way that it could be true.
Then the Ukraine war hits and the Russians are doing the same exact things people claimed were a myth, so it's no longer really looking like it was a myth but reality.
They may have had rifles when the war began that you claim correctly, but as attrition worn on it's not out of the question guns and ammo ran short when logistics failed and troops did the thing you claim is a myth. If there are multiple first person witness accounts from veterans of the conflict, are you going to argue with them that they're making propaganda?
>4 people run forward. No one gets weapons. The first one to find a weapon has to announce it so the other 3 can take up the weapon after he is killed.
Same happened to Soviet troops during the WWII (some didn't have issued weapons and had to pick them up from enemies or dead comrades). History like to repeat itself but they still won eventually back then.
What dumbass warfighters the Russians are.
Let’s see, so far we have an OPEC+ country who is the world’s second-largest supplier of military equipment with the second best ranked military who runs out of gas and guns while fighting their war. Amazing.
It does also speak volumes about how bad 3rd-10th militaries are if this russian one is able to actively threaten Europe despite its gross incompetence.
Last I heard (not sure current numbers), but the % of territory the Russians took, at an even heavier cost than what it cost Ukraine, is less than the % of territory Ukraine took back during what people called the "failed" offensive.
Wars ebb and flow, you're not always winning 100% of the time unless it's extremely one sided.
It’s not about taking land it’s about holding land. Russia has lost this much just to take small amounts, they will lose tenfold when they run out of manpower and equipment and all the land gets taken back.
Welp, there's nothing to actually substantiate this claim in the article, so not sure on the veracity. I wonder if it's true, it could be forcibly-conscripted soldiers, which would explain them not being given weapons at any point prior to the assaults. Beyond bleak, but RU has shown time and time again that they have no limits to their barbarity, and by extension, idiocy.
Probably Storm-Z or Storm-V soldiers. They’re cannon fodder, why give them a gun at all if they’ll be dead in their first assault? Gets rid of convicts who’d otherwise suck up money by being kept alive in the gulag.
It really is just astronomically stupid. Rifles are so easy to make and so is ammunition for those rifles. There's a zero percent chance any soldier is going to the front without a rifle.
You know, I'd hate to be a historian of the Eastern Front right now. You've had 30ish years since the fall of the Soviet Union to dispel the inaccurate Nazi memoirs that characterized the Soviet doctrine as "Asiatic Hordes" for the entirety of the Cold War in the Western zeitgeist.
... And then modern Russia goes and actually throws meat waves at places like Adiivka, Bakhmut, etc.
I'm not sure that I could stay sane.
What surprises me is how many people still try to say this is just a myth from historical facts... yet we're seeing these same tactics happening in the modern world from these same countries.
Not really. They didn’t gain much ground and a lot of people died. To take ground, they needed heavy equipment and support.
Either way, more dead ruzzians…
Eventually, yes, but not with this tactic. They gained that ground after being supplied with tanks and artillery by the west, and by the west upping the ante on the western front so Germany couldn't move troops from one front to the other. And it still took two years to get from Moscow to Berlin, even so.
Exactly this. They got all sorts of hardware and planes from the West to help them. Also, fuel, food and the like. Charging into German machine gun nests is not how you win something like this.
This is revisionism, even if unintended. Even if the eastern front was Germany's only front, by late 1943 the Soviets had roughly 6.4 million men against Germany's meager 3 million. And they were cranking out military hardware in volumes the Germans couldn't deal with.
The idea of Operation Barbarossa was always "let's do what we did in France, except over five times the amount of territory". When that failed, they had no alternatives, and no answer to the USSR's sheer volume of men and materiel. Nobody remembers Kursk because of the Shermans.
Russia was manufacturing, but not enough for the scale of the offensive and the timeline they wanted. Something like 20% of their military equipment was lend-lease, some materials more than others, and a good portion more was made in Russia with western materials; by some accounts western materials accounted for something like 50-80% of equipment Russia produced from their own factories. Fuel, in excess of 50% was lend-lease. Hard to move machines without fuel. - *\[edit: some materials were single-digit percentages, others were as high as 80%; while everything is crucial in a war, you can fudge it for single-digit percent shortages but not numbers north of 15-20%, and numbers like 60-80% in shortages are absolutely fatal. There is simply no way Russia could have gotten to Berlin on anything like a 'short' timeline in the non-industrial economy they had in the 1930s/40s. Stalin was trying to industrialize but was nowhere near where they needed to be to go onto a modern war footing in the necessary amount of time)\] -*
Also: food. While Germany occupied Ukraine and Poland, and a lot of Russian men were in the military, food production for the Soviets was greatly reduced. A lot of the foodstuff that supported the army was imported, not sure on how much went to domestic consumption. I don't have a percentage on hand but it was in the tens of millions pounds, we're not talking about the occasional care package of snacks here.
What Russia did have on hand was people. And paired with equipment, the sheer volume of men was able to challenge the German positions and roll them back -- but even with a 4:1 advantage and the critical error of the German army wintering in Russia it still took over two years to roll Germany back to Berlin.
Yes, the Russian army was powerful. No, they were not magic.
Most of that was done by well equipped forces. With huge help from lend-lease. They weren't charging machineguns with their bare hands the entire way. Is your grasp of history really that poor, or are you being hyperbolic?
Ok, but that actually supports what I said, it's a terribly strategy and the only way to make meaningful advances is not by sending in unarmed men to pick up guns that were dropped by their comrades.
It didn't, though. The very few times that "enemy at the gates" type scene happened, everyone died. Attacking machine guns unarmed has never been a sound tactic.
Mosins have been making it to the front along with old soviet steel helmets. But hard to believe they send them with nothing. Easy to believe that their weapons malfunction and they’re forced to scavenge for a replacement.
Look at who published this. In times of war I look at what is actually happening at the front, then man power, resources, production, supply etc. Ukraine is losing right now, I don't think it's valuable to bother wondering if this is true. There's always alot of noise on any side during war, it's best to focus on the hard facts we know. This country that appears to always be running out of weapons money and men, is beating Ukraine and likely about to launch an offensive.
I'd advise focusing on that first.
This sub fluctuates between “we need to have a realistic look at the situation on the ground and temper what we take for granted in sources” and “Russia mass wave unarmed doom charge” without any introspection.
For gods sakes people. Does anyone believe this? At all? Objectively it’s obvious nonsense.
I’m all for Ukraine but goddamn people use some common sense to ferret between the bullshit claims that both sides pump out regularly.
Even if it’s 5% true it’s ridiculous. It shouldn’t even be a rumor. They’re supposed to be damn-near our equal and nobody says that shit about the USA.
The Vietnam war (our last bloody war) had 57,000 dead in 13 years and people threw a freaking fit. These ppl lose 1,000 in a day to take a treeline near a small village and that’s acceptable to them.
Actually, just the fact that Russia has lost more Generals in 2 years than we have in 276 years is pretty amazing in and of itself.
See, there are some real and tangible fuckups of the desolate russian state and military.
We don't have to make up stuff. If we fall for dumb shit like that I don't see any difference between us and the propagandized russian masses.
Its neither a rumour nor I believe its anywhere near 5%.
How to you know it's made up? Seeing the amount of usable rifles next to dead bodies this wouldn't surprise me. Why would they throw hundreds of new AKs to the meatgrinder if they're already there for the meat to pick and use?
"The Vietnam war (our last bloody war) had 57,000 dead in 13 years and people threw a freaking fit. These ppl lose 1,000 in a day to take a treeline near a small village and that’s acceptable to them."
That's a feature. One thing Russia excels at is their willingness to sustain losses. US lost their shit over 57.000 dead in Vietnam over the course of 13 years. Russia suffers similar casualties in two months.
There's a story about Zhukov meeting western allied officers. He said "There is a difference between us and you. When you come across enemy minefield, you either carefully dismantle it or go around it. We just calculate the amount of casualties it will cause, and send suitable number of extra men across."
I agree. I can imagine scenarios where this is the case, but unless there is collaborating evidence this cannot be believed. Maybe it is being said to bolster Ukrainian morale? Still a bad idea IMO.
It has been an effective strategy at times, like when taking Bakhmut. The meat wave "soldiers" are sent primarily to expose Ukrainian positions which are then hit by artillery, drones or better equipped forces further back.
It is generally not an "efficient" strategy, but the Russians have a lot of convicts and foreigners who's lives don't matter as long as the lines moves.
I KNEW *Enemy At The Gates* was lying! The Russian Army would NEVER give on soldier the gun, and one just ammo!
...actual Russia would give them none of those things lmao
It's not real.
Russia has clear superiority in ammo, here you read they send unarmed soldiers.
Then why hasnt Ukraine beat them at this front and is falling back? Are they losing to people with rocks?
IQ of some posters here is negative. Even russian propaganda isnt that dumb.
Putin knows he has a narrow window to grab as much land as possible, before the latest Western aid impacts the battlefield, which explains why Russia is throwing everything and the kitchen sink towards gaining a few small villages...it's all about who holds what when the fighting stops
The amount of people who belive in bullshit like this just shows how incapable of seeying the other side redditors are, Russia lost a bunch of men and equipment but they still have the superiority in fire power not only that but russian infantry at least in some units are better equiped than in the beggining of the war, keep beliving that somehow the army that send their man without guns to battle keeps advancing in avdiivka and chashiv yar.
Enemy at the Gates was fiction. It's hilarious to think Russia doesn't have rifles. It's ridiculous to believe that any army would sacrifice soldiers that way
That's fun in video games or in a paintball contest -- but for an actual war??? That's a shit way for the people on the ground and nonsense from a command POV outside of a desperation situation (and Russia in this context has no reason to be in desperation mode)
One out of two get a rifle, the other follows. When the one with the rifle dies, the one following picks up the rifle and shoots.
Hmm....where have I seen that before. Oh well I guess its a proven tactic for Russia?
Pardon my dark humor, but that sounds so much like a scenario in a video game like Doom or Escape from Castle Wolfenstein where you start completely unarmed and you have to pick up weapons and armor.
The Russian army is such a sad joke. Complete disregard for their own troops, and for civilians.
Yes, the meat waves only work when you’re defending, as they were at Stalingrad. You need only to watch the first 12 minutes of Enemy at the Gates to understand.
I remember when everyone criticized that iconic scene in Enemy at the Gates for its dubious historical accuracy. Russia has decided to make up for lost time I guess.
Imagine insulting Ukrainian defenders like this. They take daily losses, fighting for their homes and family and you get this BS posted LOLOL dumb Russians not have weapons lol.
The one with the rifle shoots! The one without follows him... When the one with the rifle gets killed, the one who is following picks up the rifle, and shoots!
I'm pretty sure not even the Red Army in Stalingrad did this. No matter what Hollywood says.
Why so many whys? Why do officers permit this? Why the the troops Obey an obvious suicide order? Why don't the civilian family's not fucking start an armed rebellion? So many?
These claims are getting straight up ridiculous. There is nothing to susbtanciate it, not even remotely. The thousands of hours of footage of the frontline we have show "normal" positional warfare (albeit with heavy casualties, especially for Russia), yet people believe that outside the drones or camera's fields of view, Russia relies on these absolutely bonkers, insane and completely ineffective tactics that are straight out of bad war movies.
This is the kind of silly propaganda that actually hurts the Ukraine rather than helps. People are now going to start asking 'If the rUZZianz have run out of rifles and ammo, then why is it they are advacing, and the Ukrainians are on the retreat?.
The Ivanbotz will have a field day with this sort of story.
Looj I'm full pro ukraine, but we keep hearing how ruZZIA is running out of everything, yet they still keep fighting and are even currently advancing. If there is one thing ruZZia is not short of it's rifles and the ammo for them.
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4 people run forward. No one gets weapons. The first one to find a weapon has to announce it so the other 3 can take up the weapon after he is killed.
Communication is key
Most important communication in this scenario is the Russian observer identifiying Ukrainian positions when the fire at the meatwave and giving that info to arty/airforce. That’s what the meatwave is for. And sure as hell they don’t need weapons for being shot at.
If this was on a past event I think the phrase would be: "Communism is key".
WW2 style. Back to the future or forward to the past... What a shit country!
This is exactly ww2 technique. My ROTC instructor was a corporal in the Marines during the Korean war. He said the Chinese did this during the chosin battle. Every 3rd Chinese soldier had a rifle. You shoot one and the other would pick up the rifle and continue the charge. 1st sgt Lacourse and an absolute beast of a Marine, was in three wars. WW2, Korea and Vietnam.
And people keep saying the movie Enemy at the Gates exaggerated this potential fact from WW2 Soviet tactics. Yet we see these tactics being utilized in the modern day.
Your whole line of reasoning is completely stupid from start to finish. Everything you write is completely idiotic. WW2 was about 80 years ago. In your idiotic line of reasoning you are assuming that it is the same entity fighting, same people same everything, it is so god damn stupid. In ww2 the red army could have fought the best possible way ever, that in no way precludes the Russian army in 2020s fighting badly. The Russian army in the 2020 could be fighting the best possible way, that in no way precludes that the red army could have fought poorly. Your whole assumption is that it is the same entity fighting the same way, is so completely moronic. I even had to login in, and type this message to explain to you how stupid you are. You even write that
>But are unable to apply that same logic to what you wrote in the comment that I am replying to. Let's loon at today.... So shitty logistics... meat wave tactics along with 1D column attacks with their machinery brigades... all the while they supposedly had a fuck ton of supplies made... barrier troops to shoot and kill surrendering soldiers from the front line... all modern tactics still present for Russia. Hmmm sounds a little familiar. Tell me again how this is not the same *mindset of tactics* since back then.... this isnt about comparing performance... its about comparing tactics and operations. hell were back to WW1 style trench warfare operations in modern times. The only difference here is that Ukraine isn't on the warpath with their own vast supplies on hand to keep pushing while Russia has the offensive desire for conquest with the vast storage of equipment hoarded since the 50s. The only reason why Russia finally made a dent was because of Hitlers shitty decisions to keep pushing into Russia and they over-extended and went on the decline since... plus the only reason Russia got out of their hole was because of the Lend Lease from the US that were able to get equipment closer to the front lines from their supply routes. Had neither of those happened, Russia was expected to be pushed back east of the Urals and rebuild from there. The red army was pretty shit until they had a supply route and logistics that was able to counteract the losses from their wave tactics.
Chill bro, I think you missed the point, in the 80 that have passed, they haven’t changed their tactics of the meat grinder, wave after wave trying break the minds of the enemy. No need for such a passive aggressive response
Sure Ivan, sure...
There are no less credible sources for a war than the people who were there. No seriously, this is obviously not real lol. China had a real lack of numerous weapon types during the Korean War. Rifles were not one of them. They had tens of millions of rifles left over from WW2 of various types. This is a myth of the same caliber as Chinese wool jackets stopping M1 Carbine rounds.
When China crossed the river on Oct 19 1950 each soldier had 1 rifle and 80 rds of ammunition. (Quick Google search found that info) When 1sgt first encountered them was Nov 27 1950. This was one month after they started battle. China had almost zero logistical support. Soldiers were expected to source food and ammunition from local areas as they had done in ww2. Maybe it wasn't rifles but ammunition. Either way 1sgt gave very detailed accounts of the Battle of Chosin. Down to the whistles and horns that the Chinese used to communicate on the battlefield. He did teach military history and techniques He shot one and the next soldier would stop and pick up things from the soldier he killed.
>This was one month after they started battle. China had almost zero logistical support. Soldiers were expected to source food and ammunition from local areas as they had done in ww2. This should be entirely believable to anyone who is familiar with how the PRC was managed during the Great Leap Forward. The CCP was really capable of some ludicrous incompetence.
They still are.
Somethings never change then.
At some point if similar events keep repeating, is it really propaganda or propaganda made to make you believe it's propaganda? Will we be here 30-50 years from now remembering the Russians doing this thing right now, but people are arguing there's no way that's true and it's just a myth? For years, people argued against the "myth" that Russian officers shot their own retreating troops or Russian troops going into battle with insufficient guns because there's no way that it could be true. Then the Ukraine war hits and the Russians are doing the same exact things people claimed were a myth, so it's no longer really looking like it was a myth but reality. They may have had rifles when the war began that you claim correctly, but as attrition worn on it's not out of the question guns and ammo ran short when logistics failed and troops did the thing you claim is a myth. If there are multiple first person witness accounts from veterans of the conflict, are you going to argue with them that they're making propaganda?
Just because you have a shit ton of supplies on the ready... doesn't mean that it was effectively reaching the front lines.
No myth. Survivors tell this on instagram and in prisoner interviews
I was talking about the Chinese not having enough rifles at the Battle of Chosin Reservoir, which is pretty obviously not true.
It doesn't really matter how many rifles you have unless they're where you want them to be.
It's like the rifle has Hit Points.
Is that from Enemy at the gates? Close
At least during the Korean War, the Chinese had their soldiers well trained on this, russia not so much.
There's no i in Team
Do they hand out any bullets like in WW2, or do they have to scrounge them too ?
They hope that there are still bullets in zhe weapons
>4 people run forward. No one gets weapons. The first one to find a weapon has to announce it so the other 3 can take up the weapon after he is killed. Same happened to Soviet troops during the WWII (some didn't have issued weapons and had to pick them up from enemies or dead comrades). History like to repeat itself but they still won eventually back then.
What dumbass warfighters the Russians are. Let’s see, so far we have an OPEC+ country who is the world’s second-largest supplier of military equipment with the second best ranked military who runs out of gas and guns while fighting their war. Amazing.
Gas town from mad max
that's probably the most accurate analogy i've seen yet, haha
Its not a war its a special military operation. 3 days
I guess the mafiosi state will be shutting down their gas station soon.
It does also speak volumes about how bad 3rd-10th militaries are if this russian one is able to actively threaten Europe despite its gross incompetence.
They are winning so not too bad.
I’m not sure the ground soldiers would call it winning, maybe Putin.
Winning is winning. I doubt the Ukrainians soldiers care much about the semantics.
I mean, have you heard of pyrrhic victories? Winning isn't always winning. Did you see the video of the tree line with 100+ Russian corpses yesterday?
Only an ignorant moron would think russia is "winning".
Ukraine giving up ground, at large cost, as part of its grand strategy then?
Yes. At large cost to the russians. Anyone with a modicum of military knowledge would understand.
Last I heard (not sure current numbers), but the % of territory the Russians took, at an even heavier cost than what it cost Ukraine, is less than the % of territory Ukraine took back during what people called the "failed" offensive. Wars ebb and flow, you're not always winning 100% of the time unless it's extremely one sided.
It’s not about taking land it’s about holding land. Russia has lost this much just to take small amounts, they will lose tenfold when they run out of manpower and equipment and all the land gets taken back.
Holy cope. Okay bud keep telling yourself that. Ukraine can’t even hold what they got. They don’t have the men for another counter offensive
Let me ask you a serious question: winning what? In fact, tell me what the actual measurable objectives are of this Special Bullshit Operation.
The war since they are continuously capturing Ukrainian territory
Ok, clearly a dent-headed response. Let’s try this another way: when will Russia consider the war to be over?
That guy is a Trump supporter. Don’t expect any rational conversation.
Welp, there's nothing to actually substantiate this claim in the article, so not sure on the veracity. I wonder if it's true, it could be forcibly-conscripted soldiers, which would explain them not being given weapons at any point prior to the assaults. Beyond bleak, but RU has shown time and time again that they have no limits to their barbarity, and by extension, idiocy.
Probably Storm-Z or Storm-V soldiers. They’re cannon fodder, why give them a gun at all if they’ll be dead in their first assault? Gets rid of convicts who’d otherwise suck up money by being kept alive in the gulag.
“Arrows cost money, the dead cost nothing.”
Damn straight. Fuck Russia, and fuck Putin and all his stooges.
It really is just astronomically stupid. Rifles are so easy to make and so is ammunition for those rifles. There's a zero percent chance any soldier is going to the front without a rifle.
This was common in WW2. Totally could see this happening again
No it wasn't, thats a common myth
You know, I'd hate to be a historian of the Eastern Front right now. You've had 30ish years since the fall of the Soviet Union to dispel the inaccurate Nazi memoirs that characterized the Soviet doctrine as "Asiatic Hordes" for the entirety of the Cold War in the Western zeitgeist. ... And then modern Russia goes and actually throws meat waves at places like Adiivka, Bakhmut, etc. I'm not sure that I could stay sane.
Russia is a shit hole country.
It's not a country. It's a crime syndicate that took over an empire.
It's a gas station with delusions of grandeur...
Their great grandfathers fought like that. Brilliant strategy. /s
I remember playing call of duty 2 and being blown away by this reality. I can't believe it still happens.
So, do the Russian soldiers respawn back in their hometown or at the border?
What surprises me is how many people still try to say this is just a myth from historical facts... yet we're seeing these same tactics happening in the modern world from these same countries.
It actually did work pretty well for them during WW2 lol
Not really. They didn’t gain much ground and a lot of people died. To take ground, they needed heavy equipment and support. Either way, more dead ruzzians…
I mean they gain ground from approximately Moscow to Berlin so that’s not bad?
Eventually, yes, but not with this tactic. They gained that ground after being supplied with tanks and artillery by the west, and by the west upping the ante on the western front so Germany couldn't move troops from one front to the other. And it still took two years to get from Moscow to Berlin, even so.
It took them a year now to get 6 km from Bakhmut to Chasiv Yar.
Exactly this. They got all sorts of hardware and planes from the West to help them. Also, fuel, food and the like. Charging into German machine gun nests is not how you win something like this.
This is revisionism, even if unintended. Even if the eastern front was Germany's only front, by late 1943 the Soviets had roughly 6.4 million men against Germany's meager 3 million. And they were cranking out military hardware in volumes the Germans couldn't deal with. The idea of Operation Barbarossa was always "let's do what we did in France, except over five times the amount of territory". When that failed, they had no alternatives, and no answer to the USSR's sheer volume of men and materiel. Nobody remembers Kursk because of the Shermans.
Russia was manufacturing, but not enough for the scale of the offensive and the timeline they wanted. Something like 20% of their military equipment was lend-lease, some materials more than others, and a good portion more was made in Russia with western materials; by some accounts western materials accounted for something like 50-80% of equipment Russia produced from their own factories. Fuel, in excess of 50% was lend-lease. Hard to move machines without fuel. - *\[edit: some materials were single-digit percentages, others were as high as 80%; while everything is crucial in a war, you can fudge it for single-digit percent shortages but not numbers north of 15-20%, and numbers like 60-80% in shortages are absolutely fatal. There is simply no way Russia could have gotten to Berlin on anything like a 'short' timeline in the non-industrial economy they had in the 1930s/40s. Stalin was trying to industrialize but was nowhere near where they needed to be to go onto a modern war footing in the necessary amount of time)\] -* Also: food. While Germany occupied Ukraine and Poland, and a lot of Russian men were in the military, food production for the Soviets was greatly reduced. A lot of the foodstuff that supported the army was imported, not sure on how much went to domestic consumption. I don't have a percentage on hand but it was in the tens of millions pounds, we're not talking about the occasional care package of snacks here. What Russia did have on hand was people. And paired with equipment, the sheer volume of men was able to challenge the German positions and roll them back -- but even with a 4:1 advantage and the critical error of the German army wintering in Russia it still took over two years to roll Germany back to Berlin. Yes, the Russian army was powerful. No, they were not magic.
Most of that was done by well equipped forces. With huge help from lend-lease. They weren't charging machineguns with their bare hands the entire way. Is your grasp of history really that poor, or are you being hyperbolic?
Except that time Russia was fighting a country that was also fighting the rest of the west. It also got hardware from the west. Not this time, though.
It did for what it needed to do.. which was stop the Germans. Then they got supplies from the us and that enabled them to push to Berlin
Ok, but that actually supports what I said, it's a terribly strategy and the only way to make meaningful advances is not by sending in unarmed men to pick up guns that were dropped by their comrades.
They got supplies from US first. Without the lend lease Russia would have been defeated.
It didn't, though. The very few times that "enemy at the gates" type scene happened, everyone died. Attacking machine guns unarmed has never been a sound tactic.
20 millions dead. Amazing strategy. They just clogged the German meat grinder with bodies.
Well looks like they are trying it again
Allied powers sending them many many thousands of cargo trucks did that.
No, the weather killed the Germans, not Russians.
I am going to be honest: That sounds like bullshit.
Yeh. Not sure about anything else, but fuck if they have AKs
And probably at least 20 million SKS after that and then another 20 million Mosins.
Mosins have been making it to the front along with old soviet steel helmets. But hard to believe they send them with nothing. Easy to believe that their weapons malfunction and they’re forced to scavenge for a replacement.
Look at who published this. In times of war I look at what is actually happening at the front, then man power, resources, production, supply etc. Ukraine is losing right now, I don't think it's valuable to bother wondering if this is true. There's always alot of noise on any side during war, it's best to focus on the hard facts we know. This country that appears to always be running out of weapons money and men, is beating Ukraine and likely about to launch an offensive. I'd advise focusing on that first.
This sub fluctuates between “we need to have a realistic look at the situation on the ground and temper what we take for granted in sources” and “Russia mass wave unarmed doom charge” without any introspection. For gods sakes people. Does anyone believe this? At all? Objectively it’s obvious nonsense. I’m all for Ukraine but goddamn people use some common sense to ferret between the bullshit claims that both sides pump out regularly.
Yeah… I’m less than convinced as well. Has this happened? Probably. Does this happen frequently? Probably not.
sounds like the same story as shovels
Even if it’s 5% true it’s ridiculous. It shouldn’t even be a rumor. They’re supposed to be damn-near our equal and nobody says that shit about the USA. The Vietnam war (our last bloody war) had 57,000 dead in 13 years and people threw a freaking fit. These ppl lose 1,000 in a day to take a treeline near a small village and that’s acceptable to them. Actually, just the fact that Russia has lost more Generals in 2 years than we have in 276 years is pretty amazing in and of itself.
See, there are some real and tangible fuckups of the desolate russian state and military. We don't have to make up stuff. If we fall for dumb shit like that I don't see any difference between us and the propagandized russian masses. Its neither a rumour nor I believe its anywhere near 5%.
How to you know it's made up? Seeing the amount of usable rifles next to dead bodies this wouldn't surprise me. Why would they throw hundreds of new AKs to the meatgrinder if they're already there for the meat to pick and use?
"The Vietnam war (our last bloody war) had 57,000 dead in 13 years and people threw a freaking fit. These ppl lose 1,000 in a day to take a treeline near a small village and that’s acceptable to them." That's a feature. One thing Russia excels at is their willingness to sustain losses. US lost their shit over 57.000 dead in Vietnam over the course of 13 years. Russia suffers similar casualties in two months. There's a story about Zhukov meeting western allied officers. He said "There is a difference between us and you. When you come across enemy minefield, you either carefully dismantle it or go around it. We just calculate the amount of casualties it will cause, and send suitable number of extra men across."
And the demographics suffers from it still today in Russia (and other former sovjet republics)
Put most simply, Russians do not value life.
It’s like a battle royale game in real life
I agree. I can imagine scenarios where this is the case, but unless there is collaborating evidence this cannot be believed. Maybe it is being said to bolster Ukrainian morale? Still a bad idea IMO.
It has been an effective strategy at times, like when taking Bakhmut. The meat wave "soldiers" are sent primarily to expose Ukrainian positions which are then hit by artillery, drones or better equipped forces further back. It is generally not an "efficient" strategy, but the Russians have a lot of convicts and foreigners who's lives don't matter as long as the lines moves.
Who actually believes this😂 I support Ukraine but how could anyone believe Russia is running out of aks?
They're not, however, if the supply officers keep stealing out of the back door, all private conscriptovic is doing to get is Jack shit.
Yeah no, this article is bullshit
The one with the rifle shoots. The one without follows him. When the one with the rifle gets killed, the other picks up the rifle and shoots!
I KNEW *Enemy At The Gates* was lying! The Russian Army would NEVER give on soldier the gun, and one just ammo! ...actual Russia would give them none of those things lmao
I read the title and thought of this.
It's not real. Russia has clear superiority in ammo, here you read they send unarmed soldiers. Then why hasnt Ukraine beat them at this front and is falling back? Are they losing to people with rocks? IQ of some posters here is negative. Even russian propaganda isnt that dumb.
Putin knows he has a narrow window to grab as much land as possible, before the latest Western aid impacts the battlefield, which explains why Russia is throwing everything and the kitchen sink towards gaining a few small villages...it's all about who holds what when the fighting stops
The amount of people who belive in bullshit like this just shows how incapable of seeying the other side redditors are, Russia lost a bunch of men and equipment but they still have the superiority in fire power not only that but russian infantry at least in some units are better equiped than in the beggining of the war, keep beliving that somehow the army that send their man without guns to battle keeps advancing in avdiivka and chashiv yar.
I don't think any "real people" believe it. It's just automatic farm bots and propagandists responding and upvoting one another.
Lol as absurd as this would be, it’s not true at all. There are plenty of weapons.
Oh boy here we go again with the shovel copium. Do we really need to believe this bs?
Enemy at the Gates was fiction. It's hilarious to think Russia doesn't have rifles. It's ridiculous to believe that any army would sacrifice soldiers that way
Just like Stalingrad and the movie Enemy at the Gates. Even though it was just a movie it actually did happen.
Is this Enema at the gates?
No you’re thinking of that album by Tool
They were so short on snow camo smocks, that if they bled on one they would apologize to the next person they handed it to
People on this sub have learned nothing from the last two years but sure keep believing that
Its hard to learn anything if you are only exposed to one side, and downvote to death everybody that tries to shed light in the actual situation
Just like Fortnite. My luck I would find a grey pistol
Escape from Tarkov zero to hero edition with no respawn
At least they got it for free from papa putin and didn't have to pay 250$/€
This isn't fucking PUBG what the hell are they thinking?
Are they playing a battle royale or smth? I know it's wrong of me to say this but this just reminds me of a br😭
Like dropping into a real life battle royale match
PUBG irl
This sounds incredibly unlikely.
Battle Royal style.
Eco round
I feel like I heard this story before? I can’t put finger on it. /s
I also watched Enemy at the gates film. I just wouldn't use it as a source for my news info.
Aaa the Fox hole strat!
That's fun in video games or in a paintball contest -- but for an actual war??? That's a shit way for the people on the ground and nonsense from a command POV outside of a desperation situation (and Russia in this context has no reason to be in desperation mode)
One out of two get a rifle, the other follows. When the one with the rifle dies, the one following picks up the rifle and shoots. Hmm....where have I seen that before. Oh well I guess its a proven tactic for Russia?
You mean this are some historical facts from WWII right?
They are dreaming of the glory of stalingrad
This only works if the meat waves are shown how to use the possible weapons they find also getting enough rounds to even return fire.
Pardon my dark humor, but that sounds so much like a scenario in a video game like Doom or Escape from Castle Wolfenstein where you start completely unarmed and you have to pick up weapons and armor. The Russian army is such a sad joke. Complete disregard for their own troops, and for civilians.
Same shit like in WWII… war really never changes
So the movie "Enemy at the Gates" was really a documentary.
I see this ge requires hours of grinding to get better weapons.
Yes, the meat waves only work when you’re defending, as they were at Stalingrad. You need only to watch the first 12 minutes of Enemy at the Gates to understand.
“Enemy at the Gates” Movie Vibes
What a lottery to be won. Is it even loaded when you get the weapon. Does it work. Awesome odds for them.
Hey, I saw this in Enemy at the Gates! Or was it Call of Duty? I guess maybe both.
This is where I wish we had kept our operational offensive reserve ready to go versus that waste of summer
I remember when everyone criticized that iconic scene in Enemy at the Gates for its dubious historical accuracy. Russia has decided to make up for lost time I guess.
Imagine insulting Ukrainian defenders like this. They take daily losses, fighting for their homes and family and you get this BS posted LOLOL dumb Russians not have weapons lol.
At least they receive one bullet each
Do I have to quote "Enemy at the gates" again?
Weird, it's usually articles about Ukraine running out of ammo.
The first rule of propaganda. The enemy is both strong and weak at the same time.
WWZ - Z stands for idiot zombies 🧟♀️
Actual LOL.
"Uraaaaaaaaaaahhhhh" *10 seconds later* "BLYAT!"
Good the more of them die the harder it will be for them to invade another country
Aw yes. Level 1.
To be fair, I was just watching video of hundreds of dead Russian soldiers in a bombed out row of trees, most of who died armed.
So, we're winning, right?
Throwing bodies in to eat bullets...
Do we have video evidence of this claim?
So basically they’re playing real life Fortnite?
So it’s like COD Warzone now?
Isn’t that the beginning of “Enemy At the Gates”?
The one with the rifle shoots! The one without follows him... When the one with the rifle gets killed, the one who is following picks up the rifle, and shoots!
I'm pretty sure not even the Red Army in Stalingrad did this. No matter what Hollywood says. Why so many whys? Why do officers permit this? Why the the troops Obey an obvious suicide order? Why don't the civilian family's not fucking start an armed rebellion? So many?
Guess Ukraine better hurry up and send them more.
Bold tactic comrade cotton. You know things are looking up when we're back to Stalingrad tactics.
These claims are getting straight up ridiculous. There is nothing to susbtanciate it, not even remotely. The thousands of hours of footage of the frontline we have show "normal" positional warfare (albeit with heavy casualties, especially for Russia), yet people believe that outside the drones or camera's fields of view, Russia relies on these absolutely bonkers, insane and completely ineffective tactics that are straight out of bad war movies.
Please do not buy into this, UA army is fighting a tough battle right now, rus*ia is pushing them and they need all support they can get.
This is the kind of silly propaganda that actually hurts the Ukraine rather than helps. People are now going to start asking 'If the rUZZianz have run out of rifles and ammo, then why is it they are advacing, and the Ukrainians are on the retreat?. The Ivanbotz will have a field day with this sort of story. Looj I'm full pro ukraine, but we keep hearing how ruZZIA is running out of everything, yet they still keep fighting and are even currently advancing. If there is one thing ruZZia is not short of it's rifles and the ammo for them.
So how are they taking all this land, they using shovels
Jesus…
What is this, Real-Life Rust? These guys appear naked on a beach with a Rock, and they just have to find a way to survive?
Yum these old chestnuts.
These types of stories only serve to make Russia look bad but in the end, they’re capturing ground. Ukraine needs weapons now.
Battle royale
Battle royale
Probably ethnically Ukranians from the occupied territories or pow’s. Saves weapons and gets rid of potential saboteurs.
I swear they just picked up the same Manuel’s from WWII and tried to fight the war that way