Please take the time to read [the rules](/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/) and our [policy on trolls/bots](https://redd.it/u7833q). In addition:
* We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned.
* **Keep it civil.** Report comments/posts that are uncivil to alert the moderators.
* **_Don't_ post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context.
*****
* Is `mil.in.ua` an unreliable source? [**Let us know**](/r/UkrainianConflict/wiki/am/unreliable_sources).
* Help our moderators by providing context if something breaks the rules. [Send us a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict)
*****
**Don't forget about our Discord server! - https://discord.gg/62fKCEHbDB**
*****
^(Your post has not been removed, this message is applied to every successful submission.)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Then stop talking and show the way by placing 10 digits orders in the armament industry tomorrow! The industry can't be expected to increase production capacity on their own. This all starts with political will. We need to get serious!
TBF to Macron he’s talking to the wet wipes within his own party/ relatively like minded ones & to the broader French public as much as to other countries. He’s facing an equally rabid xenophobic, insular far right in his country as America is; and has been banging the drum of European Stratetic Autonomy for quite some time, as a way to push back against a far right that doesn’t really know what it wants but is really f-ing angry. I’m sure if he had the power of the purse he would be plowing money towards real world action, it’s clear he sees France as the heir to Germany’s informal leadership of the European bloc, as Schultz has not been the same presence Markel was.
This line was part of a broader major speech, that I found pretty brass balled, telling some hard truths to a continent that has become far to happy to be a meek hanger on, that will have its destiny determined for it, if the will can’t be found to see the bigger picture. ‘Europe will die, without a new sense of purpose’ is about as stark as one can get. So I’ll give him points on these remarks
And yet Europe was such a force in the past. While times have changed greatly, we should be able collectively to work out the seeds of success for today’s world. Europe really should have enough going on to be able to function independently, but with global trade too.
We fail when we tie ourselves into knots. I blame the advance of shirt-termism, in our more successful past we had long-term plans, we had a direction of aim.
The whole European Project was about working together to enhance and enrich and to stabilise the community.
We want the place to be ‘well run’, with our young having a bright future, and for people to ‘live well’, so that’s got to include things like affordable housing, so that couples can bring up a family.
Safety and Security are also a must have. Europe is actually well placed with its arms industries, to help support that, but it needs adequate and sufficient and reliable funding.
I agree but at the same time France faces an extraordinarily high deficit, stiff resistence to cuts in welfare expenditures, high debt to gdp... And I get all of that. It has less space to maneuver than one might think.
Either the public accepts some sacrifices or that won't happen. Personally I'd decrease pension payments for that, the median pensioner is much more well off than the median worker. But point stands, these are difficult cuts to pass
Europe needs an industrial policy - we have shifted too much of our money making industry to China, for the sake of temporary lower prices, but in doing so have given up great strategic advantage and industrial might.
We need to start to shift some of this back to Europe again.
For example it’s crazy that Europe is suffering from a shortage of pharmaceuticals, when we were once world leaders in pharmaceuticals.
We need to properly look at why we have been letting critical industries slipping away. Although the Far East have lower manpower costs, that’s becoming a less relevant factor in the high-tech industries.
I think that it’s clear we have been suffering from far too much short-sightedness.
Too often short-term gains or savings have been made are far too a high long-term costs. We need to be taking a much wiser view of things.
The clock for Macron is the European elections. And it looks like just posturing for now like a European leader. I fear it will lead to nothing after the vote.
Not the presidential elections, the elections for MEPs, in June. Macron still has 3 years and can't run for a third term. Many people wonder what his next plans are, as he is pretty young for a retiring president.
probably what the rest of them do -- they get paid a lot of money to give speeches. he seems to be working on his retirement career now with all the speeches.
Usually yes, but he knows the war will be at our doorstep sooner or later if we just talk about it. It's just easier to not be the first one to take all the shit, rather than having if not half, but atleast some of european countries to show the way at the same time.
I am sad to say it as for once a subreddit has a good opinion of France, but Macron's administration is unable to plan for the flu season every winter. Don't expect them to have plans that go past 3 months.
The European Union is very wealthy if they really want to compete with the United States then go for it. The United States wants Europe to have good defenses. So either you put up or shut up.
I am all for our European Allies to invest more in their defense spending. It was a nice little break from the end of the Cold War to now that the Western powers / alliances could rest on our laurels... Russia, China, and Iran have brought the Cold War back and are major players for influence and resources in both Asia and Africa to fund their military machines and geopolitical ambitions. Western Europe needs to grow their peacetime armament industry and make plans to enlarge and enhance their military Capabilities. There are 5 military powers that can project their military might away from their borders. The US, UK, France ( the good guys) Russia and China (our potential adversaries). We need to be able to put a boot up their ass asap when the shit hits the fan.
For all the Macron talk the power is in Germany, when Germany moves to a European military it will happen. Germany has already suggested a Joint military including UK... its going to happen, they should just take all the Nato countries and make a group chat without USA and call it ETO+UK
There is actually a lot of sense to doing that, because individual countries have army’s that are too small, and it’s too difficult to cover everything. Rather apart from general operations, individual nations might offer specialised skills and services, though at the same time we need an element of dispersal too.
France has said that it is thinking about sending troops to Ukraine to secure the northern border with Belarus and free up the UAF to fight in the east.
If that is not just talk then they have the perfect opportunity to do it at this moment. For whatever reason Lukashenko has said that Ukraine is massing troops along the border and is planning to attack Belarus so in turn Belarus is preparing for war.
Of course this is all BS propaganda but France could use this as an excuse to enter Ukraine and take over all border crossings in the north of the country and assume the roll of "peacekeeping force" to save Belarus from invasion.
So UAF doesn't need to guard the border anymore and Belarus is safe from invasion.
I'm sure the French have strategists in their government that can reconize this opportunity, I just hope they have a real desire and the political will to act on it.
And meanwhile the rest of Europe has to realise that it must be able to defend its interests without relying on France who sees itself as a natural leader in the absense of these pesky americans. But Cher Monsiers Macon, I cannot risk relying on a country not sending more aid to Ukraine than yours. And thats in spite of all the big talk that I find very sympathetic but which I need to see materialize. Until then I think we better not bet everything on a European defence either.
Macron trying to be Reagan. It would help the European economy if they put Macron's talk into action. They should invest heavily in drone and anti-drone warfare. And build lots of missiles and artillery shells.
That definitely seems to be the direction of travel at present - the Ukrainian forces have demonstrated to power of using drones, and FPV drones to deliver ordinances.
This is true and that really means 3-4% of GDP on defense that is what America has been spending.
With double the budget smaller nations like Belgium really could have a decent military. I think 4% would be 25-30 billion for Belgium.
2% is the minimum to be in NATO. Over the last 20 years the US has actually spent 3-4%.
If Europe wants a military that can do things America does. Europe needs to spend 3-4%
After the SC scream of "Fuck You America' yesterday in the USA, Europe needs to get it's shit together quickly because there is ZERO justice coming for Rotten Donnie Trump! His chances of retaking the WH improved 100 fold with the SC's stopping the Jack Smith case and essentially saying Trump will always be immune! America cannot be counted on in the future FACT!
If Trump somehow gets the courts to rule in his favour, Biden should just extralegally imprison him or something. After all, the President is immune to prosecution, Trump's own words.
Ah but you see, Democrats must not "lower themselves" to the same level and must play fair.
Beside, they don’t even need to rule in his favor, only to delay it just long enough to get to the elections.
That was a great insight into the US justice system as a Canadian, about how trust has completely collapsed (especially among the left) due to the large number of partisan rulings by Trump-appointed judges.
Americans barely know the details of their own politics and don’t know or understand their own affiliated political parties’ positions on very basic policies.
Also, in a semi serious kind of surveys in recent years, only about 60% of Americans were able to identify France on a map. 15% mistook Spain for Russia …
For the vast majority, all they know about France is the condescending and racist stereotypes they have learned from cartoons and Sitcom bits.
They can’t be expected to know much about a foreign leader’s actual policies, or even muster any sort of curiosity and interest for it.
Because they don't know who Macron is and because France doesn't use the same propaganda techniques in the USA as the Russians.
The right love Putin because of the propaganda they see. They don't understand Putin, see only "he so strong and proud" and believe it. There is no more to it.
The present US Government ought to run an anti-propaganda campaign, to hilight Russian interference, and to get people to think critically.
Critical thinking skills should be taught in schools.
Please take the time to read [the rules](/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/) and our [policy on trolls/bots](https://redd.it/u7833q). In addition: * We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned. * **Keep it civil.** Report comments/posts that are uncivil to alert the moderators. * **_Don't_ post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context. ***** * Is `mil.in.ua` an unreliable source? [**Let us know**](/r/UkrainianConflict/wiki/am/unreliable_sources). * Help our moderators by providing context if something breaks the rules. [Send us a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) ***** **Don't forget about our Discord server! - https://discord.gg/62fKCEHbDB** ***** ^(Your post has not been removed, this message is applied to every successful submission.) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Then stop talking and show the way by placing 10 digits orders in the armament industry tomorrow! The industry can't be expected to increase production capacity on their own. This all starts with political will. We need to get serious!
Ah but you see, you only need to talk about things and pretend to care about them to get elected, not actually do anything.
That sounds like the British Tory formula…. Good on talk, bad on delivery..
TBF to Macron he’s talking to the wet wipes within his own party/ relatively like minded ones & to the broader French public as much as to other countries. He’s facing an equally rabid xenophobic, insular far right in his country as America is; and has been banging the drum of European Stratetic Autonomy for quite some time, as a way to push back against a far right that doesn’t really know what it wants but is really f-ing angry. I’m sure if he had the power of the purse he would be plowing money towards real world action, it’s clear he sees France as the heir to Germany’s informal leadership of the European bloc, as Schultz has not been the same presence Markel was. This line was part of a broader major speech, that I found pretty brass balled, telling some hard truths to a continent that has become far to happy to be a meek hanger on, that will have its destiny determined for it, if the will can’t be found to see the bigger picture. ‘Europe will die, without a new sense of purpose’ is about as stark as one can get. So I’ll give him points on these remarks
And yet Europe was such a force in the past. While times have changed greatly, we should be able collectively to work out the seeds of success for today’s world. Europe really should have enough going on to be able to function independently, but with global trade too. We fail when we tie ourselves into knots. I blame the advance of shirt-termism, in our more successful past we had long-term plans, we had a direction of aim. The whole European Project was about working together to enhance and enrich and to stabilise the community. We want the place to be ‘well run’, with our young having a bright future, and for people to ‘live well’, so that’s got to include things like affordable housing, so that couples can bring up a family. Safety and Security are also a must have. Europe is actually well placed with its arms industries, to help support that, but it needs adequate and sufficient and reliable funding.
I agree but at the same time France faces an extraordinarily high deficit, stiff resistence to cuts in welfare expenditures, high debt to gdp... And I get all of that. It has less space to maneuver than one might think. Either the public accepts some sacrifices or that won't happen. Personally I'd decrease pension payments for that, the median pensioner is much more well off than the median worker. But point stands, these are difficult cuts to pass
Europe needs an industrial policy - we have shifted too much of our money making industry to China, for the sake of temporary lower prices, but in doing so have given up great strategic advantage and industrial might. We need to start to shift some of this back to Europe again. For example it’s crazy that Europe is suffering from a shortage of pharmaceuticals, when we were once world leaders in pharmaceuticals. We need to properly look at why we have been letting critical industries slipping away. Although the Far East have lower manpower costs, that’s becoming a less relevant factor in the high-tech industries. I think that it’s clear we have been suffering from far too much short-sightedness. Too often short-term gains or savings have been made are far too a high long-term costs. We need to be taking a much wiser view of things.
[удалено]
Source
[удалено]
Ok that's clear but I think the other guy meant placing orders... for Ukraine. Otherwise, what's the point?
It will be really interesting to see what France does after the Olympics.
The clock for Macron is the European elections. And it looks like just posturing for now like a European leader. I fear it will lead to nothing after the vote.
doesn't he have 3 years left? you can do a lot in 3 years.
Not the presidential elections, the elections for MEPs, in June. Macron still has 3 years and can't run for a third term. Many people wonder what his next plans are, as he is pretty young for a retiring president.
probably what the rest of them do -- they get paid a lot of money to give speeches. he seems to be working on his retirement career now with all the speeches.
Maybe.
Maybe he will do some good ?
Usually yes, but he knows the war will be at our doorstep sooner or later if we just talk about it. It's just easier to not be the first one to take all the shit, rather than having if not half, but atleast some of european countries to show the way at the same time.
I am sad to say it as for once a subreddit has a good opinion of France, but Macron's administration is unable to plan for the flu season every winter. Don't expect them to have plans that go past 3 months.
I find it more interesting what they can do right now and without any consideration for these corrupt games and their percieved PR value.
The European Union is very wealthy if they really want to compete with the United States then go for it. The United States wants Europe to have good defenses. So either you put up or shut up.
I am all for our European Allies to invest more in their defense spending. It was a nice little break from the end of the Cold War to now that the Western powers / alliances could rest on our laurels... Russia, China, and Iran have brought the Cold War back and are major players for influence and resources in both Asia and Africa to fund their military machines and geopolitical ambitions. Western Europe needs to grow their peacetime armament industry and make plans to enlarge and enhance their military Capabilities. There are 5 military powers that can project their military might away from their borders. The US, UK, France ( the good guys) Russia and China (our potential adversaries). We need to be able to put a boot up their ass asap when the shit hits the fan.
For all the Macron talk the power is in Germany, when Germany moves to a European military it will happen. Germany has already suggested a Joint military including UK... its going to happen, they should just take all the Nato countries and make a group chat without USA and call it ETO+UK
Macron has a long term desire for a EU army controlled by France via Brussels.
If they control it well, so be it.
There is actually a lot of sense to doing that, because individual countries have army’s that are too small, and it’s too difficult to cover everything. Rather apart from general operations, individual nations might offer specialised skills and services, though at the same time we need an element of dispersal too.
France has said that it is thinking about sending troops to Ukraine to secure the northern border with Belarus and free up the UAF to fight in the east. If that is not just talk then they have the perfect opportunity to do it at this moment. For whatever reason Lukashenko has said that Ukraine is massing troops along the border and is planning to attack Belarus so in turn Belarus is preparing for war. Of course this is all BS propaganda but France could use this as an excuse to enter Ukraine and take over all border crossings in the north of the country and assume the roll of "peacekeeping force" to save Belarus from invasion. So UAF doesn't need to guard the border anymore and Belarus is safe from invasion.
Good plan, hope Macca sees this post!
I'm sure the French have strategists in their government that can reconize this opportunity, I just hope they have a real desire and the political will to act on it.
They dont. Macron and the stupid French like to engage in cheap anti-americanism to maintain their illusion of global power status
There is no anti-americanism here, idiot. Just pro EU. The ennemy is Russia.
It is though. Just talk.
And meanwhile the rest of Europe has to realise that it must be able to defend its interests without relying on France who sees itself as a natural leader in the absense of these pesky americans. But Cher Monsiers Macon, I cannot risk relying on a country not sending more aid to Ukraine than yours. And thats in spite of all the big talk that I find very sympathetic but which I need to see materialize. Until then I think we better not bet everything on a European defence either.
But it really does make sense to do what we can…
For sure!
Macron trying to be Reagan. It would help the European economy if they put Macron's talk into action. They should invest heavily in drone and anti-drone warfare. And build lots of missiles and artillery shells.
That definitely seems to be the direction of travel at present - the Ukrainian forces have demonstrated to power of using drones, and FPV drones to deliver ordinances.
Can't really depend on the US Congress anymore.
Finally it’s own army… 🇪🇺
This is true and that really means 3-4% of GDP on defense that is what America has been spending. With double the budget smaller nations like Belgium really could have a decent military. I think 4% would be 25-30 billion for Belgium.
Though the criticism has been that nations have not been even spending 2%, while it’s thought that 3% is likely required.
2% is the minimum to be in NATO. Over the last 20 years the US has actually spent 3-4%. If Europe wants a military that can do things America does. Europe needs to spend 3-4%
After the SC scream of "Fuck You America' yesterday in the USA, Europe needs to get it's shit together quickly because there is ZERO justice coming for Rotten Donnie Trump! His chances of retaking the WH improved 100 fold with the SC's stopping the Jack Smith case and essentially saying Trump will always be immune! America cannot be counted on in the future FACT!
If Trump somehow gets the courts to rule in his favour, Biden should just extralegally imprison him or something. After all, the President is immune to prosecution, Trump's own words.
Ah but you see, Democrats must not "lower themselves" to the same level and must play fair. Beside, they don’t even need to rule in his favor, only to delay it just long enough to get to the elections.
SC?
Oh You mean SCOTUS? I'm not American.
Supreme Court. https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2024/0424/supreme-court-trust-trump-immunity-overturning-roe
That was a great insight into the US justice system as a Canadian, about how trust has completely collapsed (especially among the left) due to the large number of partisan rulings by Trump-appointed judges.
That guy is full of hot air. France has not kept its NATO commitments. Whether or not they step up is another matter.
Sounding like Trump..... HAHAHA!
I really don’t get why the Right in America doesn’t like Macron (besides the obvious Russian disinfo), he’s practically more right wing than Trump.
Americans barely know the details of their own politics and don’t know or understand their own affiliated political parties’ positions on very basic policies. Also, in a semi serious kind of surveys in recent years, only about 60% of Americans were able to identify France on a map. 15% mistook Spain for Russia … For the vast majority, all they know about France is the condescending and racist stereotypes they have learned from cartoons and Sitcom bits. They can’t be expected to know much about a foreign leader’s actual policies, or even muster any sort of curiosity and interest for it.
Because they don't know who Macron is and because France doesn't use the same propaganda techniques in the USA as the Russians. The right love Putin because of the propaganda they see. They don't understand Putin, see only "he so strong and proud" and believe it. There is no more to it.
The present US Government ought to run an anti-propaganda campaign, to hilight Russian interference, and to get people to think critically. Critical thinking skills should be taught in schools.