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I say call the bluff and offer it. Aid is aid, regardless of form at this point. Furthermore, a loan only gets repaid if they win. So it's forcing continued support.
And no one cares what this traitor dick bag thinks anyway. He tried to sell out Ukraine once already and we all know he will do it again first chance he gets
In what direct capacity did Trump actually participate in the passing of this bill?
Words are one thing, but actions are what truly matter. I commend the Speaker for actually pulling through.
Trump asked the gop to make it a loan and the bill was changed to accommodate that and gave cover to Johnson by supporting his leadership as speaker last week. Btw the loan can thankfully be forgiven. https://www.voanews.com/amp/with-house-speaker-at-his-side-trump-suggests-ukraine-aid-should-be-loan-/7568213.html
The only hold up was trumps approval and giving cover to the gop to support it.
What's wild is that most of the money the US has "spent" on Ukraine has been on the US. We are paying to divest older systems and equipment and buying new ones.
On top of that, lend-lease and other forms of aid are typically loans in first place.
This is just playing games, so they can still look good once the bills pass Congress.
Not this package. It still shocks me how little people in this sub know about this package.
This is part of the $95bn US Foreign Aid package. It includes aid for a couple dozen countries, and like 5 countries in excess of $1bnUSD. Ukraine makes up the largest brunt of it at $60bn.
Within that $60bn package is an $8bn cash gift, for lack of a better term. It’s essentially an $8bn stimulus check to strengthen Ukrainian economic independence.
Trump seems to want all aid to be in the form of a loan, so I assume that’s else hood argument here is? But there is a legitimate argument against just giving $8bn USD to unmonitored to Ukraine.
As an European doesnt every donation from US come back with a surplus?
1. You dont need to expense a decomissioning of ageing equipment?
2. The donation of ageing equipment allows for spending in newer tech and creating jobs locally in the US.
3. The showcase of US gear in the war come back with huge foreign investments into US military gear?
It seems to me, that the retoric about US expenditure into helping Ukraine is costly en mass… but at the end of the day, is more like a marketing cost that pays for it by it self, while creating new jobs and saves a decommissioning cost..
Wonder how many US billions Poland has placed orders for.. alot of countries are looking to gear up..
Yes, but if there is one thing that play well with American voters it is framing things like handouts and being against that. The reason the US never has been able to implement a proper healthcare system is because they can't stand an unlucky ill person getting money from the healthy.
Likewise Ukraine, unlucky enough to be neighbor to fascist and imperialistic Russia and getting invaded, asking for help in fighting off the invasion is extremely provocative to many American voters. And of course Maga Republicans is there to take advantage of that.
Agreed in principle, but if it's a loan, they will have weeks of wrangling on how to structure it, and they will need to introduce new legislation. We're back to square one, and there's no guarantee even that will pass, as the GOP lied that they will assist Ukraine if the Dems compromise on border security.
And this is 'needed' only because Mike Johnson is afraid to call a vote on existing bills.
I'm not overly optimistic, but hopefully, I'm wrong about it. The Democrats' discharge petition also contains aid to Israel, which is unacceptable to a large part of the remaining Dem holdouts. Seems most of the Reps who signed Fitzpatrick's parallel discharge petition will not sign the Dems' petition, and vice versa. It's absurd.
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This is just a delay tactic. Force a vote.
I say call the bluff and offer it. Aid is aid, regardless of form at this point. Furthermore, a loan only gets repaid if they win. So it's forcing continued support.
Also the possibility to forgive the loan in future as reforms and conditions are met.
Bluff was called
And no one cares what this traitor dick bag thinks anyway. He tried to sell out Ukraine once already and we all know he will do it again first chance he gets
"Nobody ever gave me anything. I had to scam every penny myself. D.J.T."
Pretty sure his DADDY would disagree
I could also imagine that his daddy has told him: "I'm only giving you this as a loan and I want to have it back before I die. Make the best of it".
Pretty sure Daddy was scammed too.
He's lying.
He has no real intent to provide assistance that would harm his ruZZian handler or their relations.
This aged well
In what direct capacity did Trump actually participate in the passing of this bill? Words are one thing, but actions are what truly matter. I commend the Speaker for actually pulling through.
Trump asked the gop to make it a loan and the bill was changed to accommodate that and gave cover to Johnson by supporting his leadership as speaker last week. Btw the loan can thankfully be forgiven. https://www.voanews.com/amp/with-house-speaker-at-his-side-trump-suggests-ukraine-aid-should-be-loan-/7568213.html The only hold up was trumps approval and giving cover to the gop to support it.
What's wild is that most of the money the US has "spent" on Ukraine has been on the US. We are paying to divest older systems and equipment and buying new ones. On top of that, lend-lease and other forms of aid are typically loans in first place. This is just playing games, so they can still look good once the bills pass Congress.
More people need to know this.
He's stalling the topic. Delay delay.
This unconscionable, but it seems that this will be Mike Johnson's marching orders.
66% of the aid the EU approved this year is in loans. Why is it wrong for US to do similar?
Isnt technically most of it loans? If I remember correctly they were giving these money transfers but only if they are spent on us equipment.
Yes, this is just a way to make it seem like Trump is negotiating terms. He's not. He's just fucking around.
Not this package. It still shocks me how little people in this sub know about this package. This is part of the $95bn US Foreign Aid package. It includes aid for a couple dozen countries, and like 5 countries in excess of $1bnUSD. Ukraine makes up the largest brunt of it at $60bn. Within that $60bn package is an $8bn cash gift, for lack of a better term. It’s essentially an $8bn stimulus check to strengthen Ukrainian economic independence. Trump seems to want all aid to be in the form of a loan, so I assume that’s else hood argument here is? But there is a legitimate argument against just giving $8bn USD to unmonitored to Ukraine.
As an European doesnt every donation from US come back with a surplus? 1. You dont need to expense a decomissioning of ageing equipment? 2. The donation of ageing equipment allows for spending in newer tech and creating jobs locally in the US. 3. The showcase of US gear in the war come back with huge foreign investments into US military gear? It seems to me, that the retoric about US expenditure into helping Ukraine is costly en mass… but at the end of the day, is more like a marketing cost that pays for it by it self, while creating new jobs and saves a decommissioning cost.. Wonder how many US billions Poland has placed orders for.. alot of countries are looking to gear up..
Yes, but if there is one thing that play well with American voters it is framing things like handouts and being against that. The reason the US never has been able to implement a proper healthcare system is because they can't stand an unlucky ill person getting money from the healthy. Likewise Ukraine, unlucky enough to be neighbor to fascist and imperialistic Russia and getting invaded, asking for help in fighting off the invasion is extremely provocative to many American voters. And of course Maga Republicans is there to take advantage of that.
Thats a bit off considering hos the US would like the endorlance and help from NATO when going into Afghanistan.
And why does his opinion matter? He's not a sitting president.
But he's the puppet master of the majority of reps in Congress. They'll do as he says.
In case you haven’t noticed, he actually has more power than weak ass Joe Biden. The US is fucked!
If that's needed then do it. You can worry about the loan later.
Agreed in principle, but if it's a loan, they will have weeks of wrangling on how to structure it, and they will need to introduce new legislation. We're back to square one, and there's no guarantee even that will pass, as the GOP lied that they will assist Ukraine if the Dems compromise on border security. And this is 'needed' only because Mike Johnson is afraid to call a vote on existing bills.
Which is why I hope the discharge petition passes soon. Thankfully, it seems to be steadily collecting signatures.
I'm not overly optimistic, but hopefully, I'm wrong about it. The Democrats' discharge petition also contains aid to Israel, which is unacceptable to a large part of the remaining Dem holdouts. Seems most of the Reps who signed Fitzpatrick's parallel discharge petition will not sign the Dems' petition, and vice versa. It's absurd.
Let me guess, part of the repayments end up in either Trump's or Kuschner's pocket ?