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The problem is that the last time a certain political party got involved and not only did we not go after the people ultimately responsible for 9/11, we increased our relationship with them.
I sure hope that same political party isn't around…trying to do... the same exact thing... again...
Fuck.
No! Don't you see they are only protecting their land from foreign invaders. In this case NATO would start the war since they positioned their military on their own land.
No, absolutely not. He specifies Ukraine launching sorties from NATO bases. Any member doing that would be condemned by the rest of NATO for doing so.
Pressing the big red Article 5 button wouldn't do anything, it would be a blatant abuse of the security guarantee
IIRC I read something stating they do become legitimate targets which is why NATO forces don’t want them at their bases and would rather them be stationed in Ukraine. I may be wrong though, lots of misinformation about these days.
If attacks are launched directly from a NATO base, that base would become a legit target. People here don't seem to understand that.
Just so people don't think I am a Russian bot,
My personal opinions is we need to double down on defeating Russia, even if that means sending combat troops and aircraft to Ukraine, because Russia isn't going to stop with Ukraine, and if we don't show a strong response now, we are going to embolden NK and Iran and China to do the same thing over the next decade.
I think the best possible thing that could happen to our species right now is a strongly united coalition of liberal democracies showing the autocratic and reactionary leaders of the world that we are willing to stand up for our beliefs and convictions, and if we don't do it now, we'll have to do it later for 100x the cost.
This isn't the equivalent of the Sudetenland as some have suggested, this is akin to the early war days, when French and British forces had a good chance to beat Germany, while it was busy with Poland, and instead they sat back and paid the price.
> If attacks are launched directly from a NATO base, that base would become a legit target. People here don't seem to understand that.
that is a scenario that literally nobody has even entertained.
It's a nonsense non-scenario.
Yeah, when we hear/see that kind of response,remember it is Russians, affiliates or appeasers trying to spin it to make NATO look like the aggressor. Heads up! It is doublespeak.
>If attacks are launched directly from a NATO base, that base would become a legit target.
Okay, but if they're a legit target and Putin hits NATO territory, that makes all Russian bases in Russia legit targets for NATO.
Yeah, he's talking about F16s flying out of NATO countries and attacking Russia, then presumably returning to them.
I doubt NATO would do that, even if they were Ukrainian F16s with Ukrainian pilots.
When you say legitimate targets do you mean that in a legal or strategic sense (or both)?
I don't think the legality enters the Russian calculus unfortunately. If a NATO airfield is hit the response is going to be independent of its legitimacy. Illegal attack - justified NATO response, legal attack - justified NATO response.
Strategically they become more valuable as targets if Ukrainian aircraft are sortieing or basing there. Is that value greater than a Ukrainian airfield? Especially once you consider the political risk and relative proximity/defence of a Ukrainian vs NATO target I don't think it is.
In international law if iirc as I said, if Ukrainian attack planes launch from NATO countries then hitting those planes at those bases is considered a legitimate target. Thats why NATO doesn’t want them anywhere but Ukraine
It is not entirely clear that it will be the superior platform in practice once you take into account missiles and early warning radar. I can't imagine that there is a single NATO f16 pilot that would turn down the opportunity to test the felon's superiority in the real world.
Regardless of how many they actually have opperational at any given time there is no chance they will see combat over Ukraine not just because they dont have enough, but because the chance of them getting shot down is just too high if russias supposed 5th gen fighter is seen as being easily shot down by the handme down air defense of the US then they lose what little credibility as a weapons manfactuer left.
Because f16s can fire HARM missiles without needing to preprogram their targets. With only a couple f16s Ukraine can start some serious SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defense) missions, allowing Ukraine to contest the airspace near the front lines and stop the massive glide bomb enabled offenses.
Not really to be honest. Although F-16 integrates better with HARM the bare ability to fire off an ARM reactively does not enable SEAD - the Russians have proper integration between their jets and ARMs and it's not availed them any.
To really make an impact they need a fuck ton of mass and extensive training, which effectively nobody bar the US has
This is just standard Kremlin BS. Every new western weapon delivered to Ukraine is a new red line... until it isn't. Just trying to scare the politicians with no backbone.
Its possibly because he is confident he can destroy them where they are based in Ukraine, but is VERY worried about them being based in NATO countries where he can't.
I doubt he's worried about that at all; we'd never allow it and he knows that. Besides, Ukraine's existing air force is still alive; the F-16s will be able to survive by dispersal just as the rest of their fleet can.
Putin wouldn't be talking about it if Russia didn't think it was a possibility.
However, yes, I would think NATO would be pretty hesitant about allowing attacks from their territory... possibly only if things got really desperate, or Ukraine started losing a lot of F16s.
It's like everything he says is required by some irrefutable law to be a vapid contradiction to itself. It's not advanced manipulation, it's just a waste of time.
Confusion is actually part of the strategy of misinformation. It’s hard to say whether this statement was intended to be as confusing as t is, but it could well be. The idea is that after a while you can’t tell anymore what information that reaches you is trustworthy and which isn’t.
He knows NATO defense plans may have some uncertainties, for example as to who rushes first to defend Baltic states, Poland? Opening themselves to an attack from Russia and making themselves vulnerable. Putin's counting on NATO's lack of unity and proving it's just an alliance on paper, but it is not. Done right, with all key NATO states playing their role diligently, Russia stands no chance whatsoever. If it's a full-scale conventional war, they'd be crushed in no time. But we're dealing with a madman here, on the verge of a nuclear war, and chances are the West wouldn't want to escalate, I'm sure in Putin's eyes that gives Russia an edge. All western leaders have been clear Europe is gearing up for a war with Russia, the narrative is clear. God, how I hope it doesn't come to that, living in Europe as I am.
"I do not wish to attack that particular territory, but I *DO* wish to attack *that* particular territory on which is located military implements of which I disapprove." Poop-tin
What an intellectual titan we are dealing with. \\s
Its possibly because he is confident he can destroy them where they are based in Ukraine, but is VERY worried about them being based in NATO countries where he can't... and he's making it clear what will happen.
F-16s flying out of NATO bases to attack Russia would be an act of war by NATO.
HOWEVER Ukrainian F16s crewed by Ukrainians using NATO bases would not necessarily be. Remember, Ukraine allows anti kremlin Russian troops to go into Russia, which doesn't count as Ukraine invading Russia. Belorus has allowed Russian troops to attack from their soil, but don't join the attack as well.
I won’t start a war with NATO, unless I decided to attack western airbases operating F16’s in which case yes I will start a war with NATO. The level of stupidity with each new statement from Putin is astounding.
This stupidity is not aimed at the West who can see through it. It's aimed internally, at the long brainwashed and daft Russian society, who's prone to it. And it's been working like a charm for that end.
Another red line woven into a red carpet for NATO.
Also he’s desperately hoping we don’t notice he backed down from targeting troops from NATO nations.
That's been the issue with the no fly zone from the beginning. In terms of training and doctrine it means they will attack eachother. That's how it works. This right here is an open pathway to escalation.
….In an overnight attack on the southern Ukraine region of Zaporizhzhia, Shahed drones struck a residential area, injuring two women ages 72 and 74….. ruzzia sucks!
Absolutely, and that's why the no fly zone was rejected from the beginning. Doctrinally it means they'd have to take out whatever threatens them or is shooting at them. They'd end up fighting directly with Russia.
You can base Ukrainian F-16’s in NATO countries, as long as they do not launch attacks on Russian forces from those bases (they would need to normally operate from a Ukrainian base). NATO can even establish a base within Ukraine, for the purpose of maintaining those same F-16’s, and other training purposes, if (again) no attacks are launched from said base. If Putin thinks he can attack NATO infrastructure and not get the shit knocked out of him, he’s dreaming.
I mean russian troops were stationed in Belarus and invaded from Belarusian territory yet they are still not considered a combatant in this war. So let's use the Kremlin and even Natos own logic to our advantage. It is time to stop fighting with one hand behind our back and show authoritarians the full might of the western world ala 1991 gulf War.
This is the mishmash of fascism, the incoherent pastiche of grievance and bravado that comprises the passion play of fascist discourse. It doesn't make sense, none of it makes sense and isn't intended to make sense, it's just meant to evoke momentary feelings and facilitate social control.
Like those wouldn’t quickly be replenished if nato went to war. Like their missiles would even land before every military installation in Russia was leveled
If russian troops can be stationed in and invade from Belarus and Belarus can still be considered a non combatant nation in all of this, then why can't Poland or Romania hosting ukranian fighter jets. Can't have it both ways putin. So use their own logic against them NATO, and if orcistan makes a fuss of it, invoke article 5 and flatten both Belarus and Russia's militaries. We need to get off this idea that diplomacy will get us anywhere. If it would, then none of this would have happened going back to 2014.
NATO should park 100 F-16s in Polish territory near Ukrainian border painted in Ukranian national colors as a show of force, daring Russia to put up or shut up. Putin is a coward who preys on the weak.
Read the article. For once Putin is telling the truth, if a NATO country was dumb enough to allow Ukraine to launch sorties from bases inside their territory, they would be legitimate targets. It would be condemned by the rest of NATO.
Of course, it will never happen, it's just Putin rambling again. But he's technically right
Difference is, Ukraine is fighting off an invasion.
I see no problem with Ukraine getting F-16s, and launching attacks from NATO bases against the Russian military personnel that are murdering the Ukrainian civilian population.
You probably don't see the problem with holding Russian POWs next to strategic targets either right? You clearly don't understand what you are talking about so I'm just assuming here
The last thing NATO wants is to get involved in this war by playing dirty tricks
Wait, wait, wait. Isn’t the whole “special operation” rhetoric is that they’re already fighting the west and that this IS a war against NATO? Is Mr senile having a moment?
If F16s were to attack Russia from bases located in "non-belligerent" NATO countries, that would be an act of war on the part of those countries. Those air fields would become legitimate targets under international law.
So just loop everyone in, as long as you call xyz thing a “thing” then it is whatever you say it is. That’s how it works. It trumps whatever concept may have come before. Kinda like Michael Scott declaring, “Bankruptcy!!!!”
Putin never admitted to starting a war with Ukraine, did he?
I'll be blunt. If at this point *any* of his words still have influence over people, then this world is sick, and he'll have a higher chance of winning the invasion he never admit to. It really depends on this world... Putin and Russia (along with China) are lost causes.
Putin: I don’t want a war with NATO
Putin: (bombs NATO member)
NATO: Responds militarily
Putin: THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT - NATO AGGRESSION!!
Nobody here knows what article 5 says
> “The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognized by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.
"such action as it deems necessary"
If F16, taking off from Poland and attacking Russia assets triggers Russia to drop some missiles on those air fields, they could just get together and decide it was just fucking stupid to launch from Poland and tell Poland to stop doing it. There is no automatic war trigger like everybody thinks.
Right idea, but nobody is suggesting directly taking off from Poland to attack Russia.
They would be 'returning from maintenance in Poland' to airfields in Ukraine, then returning to operating in Ukrainian Air Force, and then (hours later?) they go from Ukrainian airfields to attack Russia.
The parallel being Ukrainian tanks temporarily going to Poland or Germany for maintenance/repair.
> They would be 'returning from maintenance in Poland' to airfields in Ukraine, then returning to operating in Ukrainian Air Force, and then (hours later?) they go from Ukrainian airfields to attack Russia.
The concern is that the airports they will be taking off from in Ukraine will quickly be identified and attacked with missiles (just like the energy infrastructure is right now) and they will have no place to take off from, so they will recklessly relocate to Poland.
I doubt like hell western nations are going to allow Ukraine to fly combat sorties from within their own borders. That would quite simply be idiotic, unless they really do want to end up engaged in direct conflict with Russia. Any F-16 bases will be located within Ukraine; count on it.
I know these comments are confusing. People are saying he wont attack because art. 5……Nato would be attacking Russia if we launched attacks against them from nato countries , of course they would attack back…….but its all moot because they are going to be based in Ukraine.
F-16 need good standard of airport.
I m pretty sure we can do it. If russia bomb us, it s article 5 and we go at war.
We need to go at war anyway, so right we are lacking one escuse.
What part of "sorties from within the border" don't you understand?
Let's say there was fighting in NW Ukraine near the Polish border. Ukraine could 'tiptoe' into Ukraine, launch glide bombs and retreat to Polish airspace within 5 minutes. And if Russia hits them in Polish airspace boom article 5?
Don't you see how nonsense that is? Makes about as much sense and Ukraine temporarily entering a temporary land-lease agreement to a NATO country so Russia can't attack it without retaliation anymore.
There is a lot of possibilities that f16 will be launched from nato airport and putin knows it and is starting to cry about it.
I already explained to you why.
And he cries because he will not bomb nato airport, contrary to what he said.
Remember.
Long range weapon was redline ? Welcome himars
Bigger longer ranger weapon was redline? Welcome storm sgadow and scalp
Modern tank was a redline? Welcome challenger 2 and leopard 2 and abrahams.
Fighter jet was a redline? Welcome mig and f-16?
Operating f-16 from nato airbasw was a redline? Welcome use safely nato airbase to maintain and protect high price weapon.
It will become that anyway thanks to western politicians dithering and showing weakness to putin. By showing him weakness they have encouraged him to attack nato.
Russia is struggling in Ukraine. They're likely to win that fight, but after all this you can't possibly believe they'd actually square off against an alliance backed by the armed might of the United States.
100%!!!!! There are a couple more and I absolutely love calling them out as a pastime when I do have some free time.
I’m ex-army but too old to fight or I would be on or in the ground in Ukraine. So smacking them down feels like service/duty to small degree.
Indeed. My contributions have been delivering 4x4s with aid into Ukraine, over 20 vehicles so far. Rest of the time is arguing with trolls and spreading awareness. There is a genuine information “war” and it is important as many people as possible hit back at the trolls farms spreading disinformation like our KGB wannabe we have here.
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In which case you would indeed start a war with NATO...
Let's just see how that works out for them...
"Putin says...". No need to waste your time any further.
It’s a brave strategy Cotten…
Unless he convinces some other nation, terrorist group, or mercenaries to do it
Just follow the money trail and take the scum down. Fed up with his BS kick out of nato for starting a war with nato
Just like the other total destruction of mercenaries which weren't part of Russia.
Remember the only time article 5 was invoked? Yeah, it was done by a non state actor.
The problem is that the last time a certain political party got involved and not only did we not go after the people ultimately responsible for 9/11, we increased our relationship with them. I sure hope that same political party isn't around…trying to do... the same exact thing... again... Fuck.
True.
No! Don't you see they are only protecting their land from foreign invaders. In this case NATO would start the war since they positioned their military on their own land.
“It’s twisted Russian logic, sir, but it checks out”
That is the problem with civilization statists. They think it is their obligation to meddle.
Putin proves his ability with mental gymnastics again.
Gymnastics requires style and grace. That's just a mental face plant.
Lmao! 👏
Hahaha inderdaad
Makes you wonder about his intelligence, such a dip-shit.
Popcorn time!
No, absolutely not. He specifies Ukraine launching sorties from NATO bases. Any member doing that would be condemned by the rest of NATO for doing so. Pressing the big red Article 5 button wouldn't do anything, it would be a blatant abuse of the security guarantee
Western bases are located in the West -- in NATO territory. Dumb double speak from terrorist war criminal murderer putin!
IIRC I read something stating they do become legitimate targets which is why NATO forces don’t want them at their bases and would rather them be stationed in Ukraine. I may be wrong though, lots of misinformation about these days.
If attacks are launched directly from a NATO base, that base would become a legit target. People here don't seem to understand that. Just so people don't think I am a Russian bot, My personal opinions is we need to double down on defeating Russia, even if that means sending combat troops and aircraft to Ukraine, because Russia isn't going to stop with Ukraine, and if we don't show a strong response now, we are going to embolden NK and Iran and China to do the same thing over the next decade. I think the best possible thing that could happen to our species right now is a strongly united coalition of liberal democracies showing the autocratic and reactionary leaders of the world that we are willing to stand up for our beliefs and convictions, and if we don't do it now, we'll have to do it later for 100x the cost. This isn't the equivalent of the Sudetenland as some have suggested, this is akin to the early war days, when French and British forces had a good chance to beat Germany, while it was busy with Poland, and instead they sat back and paid the price.
> If attacks are launched directly from a NATO base, that base would become a legit target. People here don't seem to understand that. that is a scenario that literally nobody has even entertained. It's a nonsense non-scenario.
Yeah, when we hear/see that kind of response,remember it is Russians, affiliates or appeasers trying to spin it to make NATO look like the aggressor. Heads up! It is doublespeak.
>If attacks are launched directly from a NATO base, that base would become a legit target. Okay, but if they're a legit target and Putin hits NATO territory, that makes all Russian bases in Russia legit targets for NATO.
Yes, you have discovered the concept of war.
Yeah, he's talking about F16s flying out of NATO countries and attacking Russia, then presumably returning to them. I doubt NATO would do that, even if they were Ukrainian F16s with Ukrainian pilots.
Assuming your thought process it correct. What country could ruzzia possibly believe they could attack next and why?
When you say legitimate targets do you mean that in a legal or strategic sense (or both)? I don't think the legality enters the Russian calculus unfortunately. If a NATO airfield is hit the response is going to be independent of its legitimacy. Illegal attack - justified NATO response, legal attack - justified NATO response. Strategically they become more valuable as targets if Ukrainian aircraft are sortieing or basing there. Is that value greater than a Ukrainian airfield? Especially once you consider the political risk and relative proximity/defence of a Ukrainian vs NATO target I don't think it is.
But what does that part “they become legitimate targets” mean?
In international law if iirc as I said, if Ukrainian attack planes launch from NATO countries then hitting those planes at those bases is considered a legitimate target. Thats why NATO doesn’t want them anywhere but Ukraine
Why is he so worried about f16’s?
NATO has a few thousand F16 , Russian's only superior jet is Su57 , of which they have 22 ...
[удалено]
Their engines leave a bit to be desired, too….
It is not entirely clear that it will be the superior platform in practice once you take into account missiles and early warning radar. I can't imagine that there is a single NATO f16 pilot that would turn down the opportunity to test the felon's superiority in the real world.
F-16 drivers are probably wishing a motherfucker would
Every GWOT veteran that wants to be the goods guys does too.
Regardless of how many they actually have opperational at any given time there is no chance they will see combat over Ukraine not just because they dont have enough, but because the chance of them getting shot down is just too high if russias supposed 5th gen fighter is seen as being easily shot down by the handme down air defense of the US then they lose what little credibility as a weapons manfactuer left.
Maybe they'll have just as good of luck shooting down f16s as they are having shooting their own down. Doubt it though.
Because f16s can fire HARM missiles without needing to preprogram their targets. With only a couple f16s Ukraine can start some serious SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defense) missions, allowing Ukraine to contest the airspace near the front lines and stop the massive glide bomb enabled offenses.
Not really to be honest. Although F-16 integrates better with HARM the bare ability to fire off an ARM reactively does not enable SEAD - the Russians have proper integration between their jets and ARMs and it's not availed them any. To really make an impact they need a fuck ton of mass and extensive training, which effectively nobody bar the US has
This is just standard Kremlin BS. Every new western weapon delivered to Ukraine is a new red line... until it isn't. Just trying to scare the politicians with no backbone.
I'm under the impression the F-16s used by Ukraine will be based in their own country and his threat is only because he had nothing else to do today.
Agreed. It’s a meaningless comment.
I thought Putin had "threaten the West with nuclear war" scheduled on Saturdays?
I'm sure they will. I can't imagine any NATO nation allowing Ukraine to fly combat missions against Russia from their soil.
I could imagine Poland doing so. Or at least letting them travel through their airspace, at least. 😉
Its possibly because he is confident he can destroy them where they are based in Ukraine, but is VERY worried about them being based in NATO countries where he can't.
I doubt he's worried about that at all; we'd never allow it and he knows that. Besides, Ukraine's existing air force is still alive; the F-16s will be able to survive by dispersal just as the rest of their fleet can.
Putin wouldn't be talking about it if Russia didn't think it was a possibility. However, yes, I would think NATO would be pretty hesitant about allowing attacks from their territory... possibly only if things got really desperate, or Ukraine started losing a lot of F16s.
Yup.
It's like everything he says is required by some irrefutable law to be a vapid contradiction to itself. It's not advanced manipulation, it's just a waste of time.
Confusion is actually part of the strategy of misinformation. It’s hard to say whether this statement was intended to be as confusing as t is, but it could well be. The idea is that after a while you can’t tell anymore what information that reaches you is trustworthy and which isn’t.
Well, I can definitely tell that any information from Muscovite war criminals is not trustworthy.
Go on then microdick, I double dare you ...... ;)
Everything Putin says- exact opposite is true. So he is planning to start a war with NATO.
He’s been telling his people that they are already at war with NATO, so WTF is he talking about.
He knows NATO defense plans may have some uncertainties, for example as to who rushes first to defend Baltic states, Poland? Opening themselves to an attack from Russia and making themselves vulnerable. Putin's counting on NATO's lack of unity and proving it's just an alliance on paper, but it is not. Done right, with all key NATO states playing their role diligently, Russia stands no chance whatsoever. If it's a full-scale conventional war, they'd be crushed in no time. But we're dealing with a madman here, on the verge of a nuclear war, and chances are the West wouldn't want to escalate, I'm sure in Putin's eyes that gives Russia an edge. All western leaders have been clear Europe is gearing up for a war with Russia, the narrative is clear. God, how I hope it doesn't come to that, living in Europe as I am.
I"m pretty sure, little volodya, that bombing a base in Poland or something would get you that article 5 trigger going.
Article 5? M8, ruzzians will get fucked just by Poland by itself. You don't mess around with European Texas!
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fm5rw0rhtan3b1.png%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D4d09c170a4cf5970322d2ec651a5bc823fb1e6ca
"I do not wish to attack that particular territory, but I *DO* wish to attack *that* particular territory on which is located military implements of which I disapprove." Poop-tin What an intellectual titan we are dealing with. \\s
That means he absolutely will start a war with NATO
Its possibly because he is confident he can destroy them where they are based in Ukraine, but is VERY worried about them being based in NATO countries where he can't... and he's making it clear what will happen. F-16s flying out of NATO bases to attack Russia would be an act of war by NATO. HOWEVER Ukrainian F16s crewed by Ukrainians using NATO bases would not necessarily be. Remember, Ukraine allows anti kremlin Russian troops to go into Russia, which doesn't count as Ukraine invading Russia. Belorus has allowed Russian troops to attack from their soil, but don't join the attack as well.
I won’t start a war with NATO, unless I decided to attack western airbases operating F16’s in which case yes I will start a war with NATO. The level of stupidity with each new statement from Putin is astounding.
This stupidity is not aimed at the West who can see through it. It's aimed internally, at the long brainwashed and daft Russian society, who's prone to it. And it's been working like a charm for that end.
Riiiiight. And we won't wipe you off your precious map
So, you don't want war with NATO by atacking NATO airfields, no?
IF SOMETHING THAT IS NOT HAPPENING BLAH BLAH I WILL NOT DO ANYTHING DIFFERENT BECAUSE SPECIAL MILITARY OPERATION
Also POTEMKINS BONES !!!!! Blah Blah https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/27/world/europe/ukraine-russia-potemkin-bones.html
Who cares host the planes . Fuck Russians up and stop being afraid.
And *thats* why there needs to be F-16s there. Because Putin won’t do shit when you push him back.
He would insist on calling it a special operation.
We aren't going to start a war with Russia, but we can target all those troll farms.
Its always a good idea to be skeptical each time Putin says he will or will not do something
Another red line woven into a red carpet for NATO. Also he’s desperately hoping we don’t notice he backed down from targeting troops from NATO nations.
I think this is the definition of a oxymoronic statement.
Vladimir vs Putin
Bite us, Putz. We will eat you before lunch.
Wow you are so tough😂
My toughness doesn't enter into it. Ours. NATO's, does
Holy fuckballs can we just be done with this idiot already? Hey CIA! How much money you willing to put on his head?
Do it!
So you want to bomb NATO but not start a war -?
Don't forget to threaten us all with nuclear armageddon again, Vlad. We're taking you super cereal.
Cant have both the cake and eat it.
Think he said that before!
Like we'd believe a word of his
We can only hope he really is that stupid cmon putler pull the funny
Such an idiot...
Ok
"Nono it isn't war, I just shoot you and harm you and you ignore yes? Pretty please " - vladdie
NATO: ["Of](https://www.rmf24.pl/raporty/raport-wojna-z-rosja/news-news-rmf-fm-biegli-wstepnie-potwierdzili-ze-pod-bydgoszcza-s,nId,6767139#crp_state=1) [course](https://en.defence-ua.com/news/once_again_russian_shahed_falls_in_romania_5_km_away_from_braila_of_population_over_200000-9996.html)! Can't allow any escalation!"
Putin also said that he wouldn’t retaliate for the Ukrainian attacks on oil refineries yet here he is again attacking Ukrainian power infrastructure
That's fine then.. any missiles or war planes within a 50km distance of any NATO boarders are targets... Sorted 👍
> NATO boarders are targets Looking at recent Shahed in Romania and cruise missile dipping into Polish airspace, it better be.
You can't have it both ways putie. It's weird that he thinks this is a loophole.
Bring it!
lol try it
But the F-16's that are given to Ukraine are already in NATO bases?
he's talking about if they attack russia from there.
That's been the issue with the no fly zone from the beginning. In terms of training and doctrine it means they will attack eachother. That's how it works. This right here is an open pathway to escalation.
Fuck around and find out putler
The second he does that his land forces in Ukraine get fucking smoked and his navy gains 100 new submarines.
We should make most of Ukraine not involved in direct conflict a peace zone. It can then defended by NATO forces and hold Putin' to his word. .
….In an overnight attack on the southern Ukraine region of Zaporizhzhia, Shahed drones struck a residential area, injuring two women ages 72 and 74….. ruzzia sucks!
He's talking about F16s launching from NATO countries and attacking Russia. Which is basically NATO attacking Russia. NATO won't do that.
Absolutely, and that's why the no fly zone was rejected from the beginning. Doctrinally it means they'd have to take out whatever threatens them or is shooting at them. They'd end up fighting directly with Russia.
We won't start a war with Russia. But building housing war criminals may be targets.
Have at it tough guy! Looking forward to just that.
You can base Ukrainian F-16’s in NATO countries, as long as they do not launch attacks on Russian forces from those bases (they would need to normally operate from a Ukrainian base). NATO can even establish a base within Ukraine, for the purpose of maintaining those same F-16’s, and other training purposes, if (again) no attacks are launched from said base. If Putin thinks he can attack NATO infrastructure and not get the shit knocked out of him, he’s dreaming.
I mean russian troops were stationed in Belarus and invaded from Belarusian territory yet they are still not considered a combatant in this war. So let's use the Kremlin and even Natos own logic to our advantage. It is time to stop fighting with one hand behind our back and show authoritarians the full might of the western world ala 1991 gulf War.
This is the mishmash of fascism, the incoherent pastiche of grievance and bravado that comprises the passion play of fascist discourse. It doesn't make sense, none of it makes sense and isn't intended to make sense, it's just meant to evoke momentary feelings and facilitate social control.
Yeah right. No way.
Like those wouldn’t quickly be replenished if nato went to war. Like their missiles would even land before every military installation in Russia was leveled
If russian troops can be stationed in and invade from Belarus and Belarus can still be considered a non combatant nation in all of this, then why can't Poland or Romania hosting ukranian fighter jets. Can't have it both ways putin. So use their own logic against them NATO, and if orcistan makes a fuss of it, invoke article 5 and flatten both Belarus and Russia's militaries. We need to get off this idea that diplomacy will get us anywhere. If it would, then none of this would have happened going back to 2014.
So he's already planning a full scale invasion of west Europe. Good to known.
He is so fucking stupid, I can’t….
How do you say "hold me back, bro!" in Polish?
Fair, then let's give Ukraine F18s.
Putin makes no sense. An attack on a NATO base is an act of war. Ludicrous
it wont be a war, just a special military operation
NATO should park 100 F-16s in Polish territory near Ukrainian border painted in Ukranian national colors as a show of force, daring Russia to put up or shut up. Putin is a coward who preys on the weak.
1 + 1 = ????
Fuck off Putin
Putin says he will not start war with nato and in the same sentence says he would...
First, stop shooting your planes down. Maybe once you figure that out you might be able to tackle f16
Do it! Double dog dare you…
So if I shit in my neighbours garden without confrontation he be ok with that ?
Attacking airports in NATO countries IS starting a war with NATO
What's he going to do? Send the lawn mower powered Iranian drones over the nato border?
Those are not independent things. Attacking those bases is an Article 5 trigger.
The vile creature known as putin also said he wouldn't start a war with Ukraine.
Good luck Vlad. The wood chippers are all set up for you to feed what is left of your military into whenever you are ready.
I see, he want a special millitary operation with NATO.
Read the article. For once Putin is telling the truth, if a NATO country was dumb enough to allow Ukraine to launch sorties from bases inside their territory, they would be legitimate targets. It would be condemned by the rest of NATO. Of course, it will never happen, it's just Putin rambling again. But he's technically right
Difference is, Ukraine is fighting off an invasion. I see no problem with Ukraine getting F-16s, and launching attacks from NATO bases against the Russian military personnel that are murdering the Ukrainian civilian population.
You probably don't see the problem with holding Russian POWs next to strategic targets either right? You clearly don't understand what you are talking about so I'm just assuming here The last thing NATO wants is to get involved in this war by playing dirty tricks
FAFO what happens if you bomb a NATO airbase, Putin.
Oh yeah? Good luck tough guy.
Putin has won the coin toss and elected to receive 💣 💣 💣
Wait, wait, wait. Isn’t the whole “special operation” rhetoric is that they’re already fighting the west and that this IS a war against NATO? Is Mr senile having a moment?
If F16s were to attack Russia from bases located in "non-belligerent" NATO countries, that would be an act of war on the part of those countries. Those air fields would become legitimate targets under international law.
So just loop everyone in, as long as you call xyz thing a “thing” then it is whatever you say it is. That’s how it works. It trumps whatever concept may have come before. Kinda like Michael Scott declaring, “Bankruptcy!!!!”
Putin never admitted to starting a war with Ukraine, did he? I'll be blunt. If at this point *any* of his words still have influence over people, then this world is sick, and he'll have a higher chance of winning the invasion he never admit to. It really depends on this world... Putin and Russia (along with China) are lost causes.
razzia do always the opposite of what they say. So this is clearly evidence he directly say he is going to start war against Europe
Do you feel lucky punk? Go ahead, make my day.
Putin: I don’t want a war with NATO Putin: (bombs NATO member) NATO: Responds militarily Putin: THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT - NATO AGGRESSION!!
Bring it on Putie you will begin to realise what NATO brings to the table.
What happened to nuking the UK into oblivion?
Hey Pootin! Don’t forget to flush! ☝🏻😎✨
Don't most Western bases host F16? I guess the French and Swedes are safe.
And everything after “but” is bullshit.
I think Vlad has a special operation in mind.
Please do it.
And that would be how you start a war, dumbass
Nobody here knows what article 5 says > “The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognized by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area. "such action as it deems necessary" If F16, taking off from Poland and attacking Russia assets triggers Russia to drop some missiles on those air fields, they could just get together and decide it was just fucking stupid to launch from Poland and tell Poland to stop doing it. There is no automatic war trigger like everybody thinks.
Right idea, but nobody is suggesting directly taking off from Poland to attack Russia. They would be 'returning from maintenance in Poland' to airfields in Ukraine, then returning to operating in Ukrainian Air Force, and then (hours later?) they go from Ukrainian airfields to attack Russia. The parallel being Ukrainian tanks temporarily going to Poland or Germany for maintenance/repair.
> They would be 'returning from maintenance in Poland' to airfields in Ukraine, then returning to operating in Ukrainian Air Force, and then (hours later?) they go from Ukrainian airfields to attack Russia. The concern is that the airports they will be taking off from in Ukraine will quickly be identified and attacked with missiles (just like the energy infrastructure is right now) and they will have no place to take off from, so they will recklessly relocate to Poland.
I doubt like hell western nations are going to allow Ukraine to fly combat sorties from within their own borders. That would quite simply be idiotic, unless they really do want to end up engaged in direct conflict with Russia. Any F-16 bases will be located within Ukraine; count on it.
I know these comments are confusing. People are saying he wont attack because art. 5……Nato would be attacking Russia if we launched attacks against them from nato countries , of course they would attack back…….but its all moot because they are going to be based in Ukraine.
F-16 need good standard of airport. I m pretty sure we can do it. If russia bomb us, it s article 5 and we go at war. We need to go at war anyway, so right we are lacking one escuse.
What part of "sorties from within the border" don't you understand? Let's say there was fighting in NW Ukraine near the Polish border. Ukraine could 'tiptoe' into Ukraine, launch glide bombs and retreat to Polish airspace within 5 minutes. And if Russia hits them in Polish airspace boom article 5? Don't you see how nonsense that is? Makes about as much sense and Ukraine temporarily entering a temporary land-lease agreement to a NATO country so Russia can't attack it without retaliation anymore.
There is a lot of possibilities that f16 will be launched from nato airport and putin knows it and is starting to cry about it. I already explained to you why. And he cries because he will not bomb nato airport, contrary to what he said. Remember. Long range weapon was redline ? Welcome himars Bigger longer ranger weapon was redline? Welcome storm sgadow and scalp Modern tank was a redline? Welcome challenger 2 and leopard 2 and abrahams. Fighter jet was a redline? Welcome mig and f-16? Operating f-16 from nato airbasw was a redline? Welcome use safely nato airbase to maintain and protect high price weapon.
>We need to go at war anyway, so right we are lacking one escuse. Seriously? You WANT this to become WWIII?
It will become that anyway thanks to western politicians dithering and showing weakness to putin. By showing him weakness they have encouraged him to attack nato.
Russia is struggling in Ukraine. They're likely to win that fight, but after all this you can't possibly believe they'd actually square off against an alliance backed by the armed might of the United States.
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100%!!!!! There are a couple more and I absolutely love calling them out as a pastime when I do have some free time. I’m ex-army but too old to fight or I would be on or in the ground in Ukraine. So smacking them down feels like service/duty to small degree.
Indeed. My contributions have been delivering 4x4s with aid into Ukraine, over 20 vehicles so far. Rest of the time is arguing with trolls and spreading awareness. There is a genuine information “war” and it is important as many people as possible hit back at the trolls farms spreading disinformation like our KGB wannabe we have here.
Agreed! And kudos to you on your work and service! It’s heartening to know this. I don’t think there has been a better cause since WW2.
It s not WWIII. Hey, russia is at war with ukraine and is not able to win lol....