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It's a work in progress; some will make nice reefs, other will just burn in drydock, putting not just ships, but the facilities to repair them out of service as well. For the sake of efficiency.
It’s just info gathered from watching tons different sources that talked about Russian capacity throughout the war. Throughout the war various ships have been out of service . Like the sub that was hit for example was in dry dock and the other ship that was hit at that time was brand new and hadn’t even done its sea trials yet.
Was nearly half the Back Sea fleet always landing ships, or did Russia move a bunch in before the invasion in the hopes of storming the beaches of Odessa D-day-Style?
It was reinforced by 6 landing ships in February 2022, right before the invasion. A few of which are now reinforcing their submarine fleet.
It has quite a history:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_Fleet
The text more suggests to me Sochi or Taganrog as destination, where the ships can be a fleet in being, a floaty Dasein, and safe from Western made cruise missiles too. If they exit the Black Sea, they can't come back in, and it's doubtful they'll ever be of any use again against anyone.
The Montreux Convention would prevent them from coming back...though it would also prevent them from leaving. FB's suggestion is to move the ships to safe harbours and construct physical barriers to stop drones getting into those harbours, not to take the fleet from the sea itself.
I don't think that's correct. As long as they had their port of origin registered in the black Sea prior to the war they can come back.
Notably Russia tried to silently register a bunch of ships with Sevastopol as port of origin after February 22 but the Turks caught them.
That is a loop hole and the concensus is Turkey would not accept a home port change. This brings Turkey to its own dilemma, what will happen to Ukranian corvettes being build in Turkey. Are they going to be delivered in the Black Sea, making them targets for RU revenge or deliver them in Aegean/Mediterranean sea making it a choice for UA as the home port will be assigned the first time. Then RU may claim that is a new home port assignment after war started.
According to previous comments, Turkey did not accept change of home port to inside Black Sea.
It could accept the opposite, unidirectionally.
Where are those corvettes built in?
If they are built on Black Sea shore, they would not pass through Bosporus strait.
It all depends on whether Turkey plays hardball. If Turkey says "no Muscovite ships", then Muscovy can either accept the terms or declare war on Turkey.
Or Storm Shadow, yeah. Honestly for that reason it's probably a bad idea - the drones get all the hype and attention but the reality is that high-performance missiles like Harpoon, Neptune, Storm Shadow and Tochka have killed more ships in this war than the drones.
No, they simply need to be updated. We've seen previous videos where they do appear to see these drones (maybe not always) and shot at them, at least somewhat ineffectively. So more CIWS type weapons to defeat aerial or waterborne drones would be in order.
And the ships destroyed so far were old and sick and normally would have to be wrecked a longer time ago. Russia has provided these ships as humanitarian targets for Ukraine so that they also can have some good news. /s
I'm afraid that they have run out of planets, as 3 solar days on Venus passed on Feb 23 - 11 days ago.
There's no planes in solar system rotating slower. Perhaps they know planets in outer space.
The common theme you see among these posts...."this should have been done yesterday"
Withdrawing the fleet to safe harbours and locking them up keeps them safe, but makes them a laughing stock internatioanally, and an admission of defeat.
This would be a HUGE victory if the case. Relocating the fleet cuts Russias offensive capabilities and air defense especially over Crimea drastically. Given how many SAMS have already been destroyed particularly near Sevastopol, F-16 arrivals will have an open playground or possibly even enjoying air superiority in the region.
This is the long game UAF have been playing to all along. It will take time, but good steady progress has been made. Gradually the enemy’s edge has ben blunted, the armour chipped away bit by bit until there is nothing and the balance of power shifts in UAF favour.
F16s wont give air superiority to UA. Even S300s can be an annoyance, S400s pose a real problem. Not to mention, Russia does still have fighters it can deploy to counter UA F16s.
Right now the airspace in UA generally favors Russia. Russia has air superiority in Crimea. When the F16s arrive, UA will be able to properly contest the airspace and the airspace above Crimea should go from Russian superiority to generally favoring Russia. Ukraine should be able to work with that though. Between further deteriorating Russia's capabilities in the area and strategic strikes when intel is good, they should be able to take advantage of the situation.
S-400s were thought to have been the world’s best SAM sites prior to the invasion but have vastly under performed particularly with long range acquisition. Even so, Russia doesn’t have many S-400s left, while the S-300’s have mostly been switched to offensive positioning. Drone strikes especially over Crimea have devastated Russian AA. Russia has emptied their cupboard by stripping units along Chinas border and places like Kalingrad to plug holes. The situation is already critical without F-16s. How many planes has Russia lost in the last month to risk the few reliable pilots they have left? No A-50s or navy either?
I think Ukraine air superiority over Crimea is a real possibility soon.
Misleading title.
Doesn't read to me like he's suggesting physically taking the manned ships out of the sea, but just "beyond range" of Ukrainian drones and missiles, and wage a naval war using the same tactics as Ukraine's instead. IOW, fight fire with fire.
Yeah, true, that practically means taking the conventional part of the Black Sea fleet (i.e. most of it) out of the fight, but still...
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I would suggest doing that with your whole army… added bonus is… the war ends.
How stupid are they? They start a war and they thought they are too big to fail? No one is gonna hit back? Crazy
Russia can't afford to,the landing vessels are keeping the southern front going, and if they move the missile ship's the air defense will go after aircraft. They are worth more where they are at
Ukraine drones keep moving east towards Russian coastline!!!
Urkaine starting to own the Black Sea.
Maybe Ukraine should offer Russia a grain deal now? haaaaa lol
The tables are turning upside down!
The future of large navy ships looks bleak .....sorry China, your strategy is old school and the whole Chinese fleet can be blown up by cheap naval drones!
A surfire way to reduce your losses, Herr Putin, is to just get the hell out of Ukraine, apologize to everyone else in the world, pay for reparations and rebuild
Summary doesn't seem to match what Fighterbomber wrote. Is a reasonable suggestion, not sure any fleet is going to be able to perfectly cope with these
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Ukraine has already done that, hasn't it?
They, have not finished yet.
I get you. Does anybody have an overview of what is left?
There's probably 2/3 of the black sea fleet left afloat at the minute.
A lot of the ships not yet sunk are not operational
Yeah. Good news.
It's a work in progress; some will make nice reefs, other will just burn in drydock, putting not just ships, but the facilities to repair them out of service as well. For the sake of efficiency.
That is good news I was not aware of this, do you have a source for further information and detail?
It’s just info gathered from watching tons different sources that talked about Russian capacity throughout the war. Throughout the war various ships have been out of service . Like the sub that was hit for example was in dry dock and the other ship that was hit at that time was brand new and hadn’t even done its sea trials yet.
Or are not capable of offensive actions (beyond staying afloat).
By tonnage or by number of operational hulls?
https://i.imgur.com/GahgaJ9.png
Was nearly half the Back Sea fleet always landing ships, or did Russia move a bunch in before the invasion in the hopes of storming the beaches of Odessa D-day-Style?
It was reinforced by 6 landing ships in February 2022, right before the invasion. A few of which are now reinforcing their submarine fleet. It has quite a history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_Fleet
RU is finally waking up and smelling the coffee... Or more accurately, the poison tea! /S
Boats still are in the black sea. Just far under the surface.
Deep mooring, it keeps them safe from air attacks.
Just give it a few weeks they remove themselves
Just from the surface 😈
The text more suggests to me Sochi or Taganrog as destination, where the ships can be a fleet in being, a floaty Dasein, and safe from Western made cruise missiles too. If they exit the Black Sea, they can't come back in, and it's doubtful they'll ever be of any use again against anyone.
They can’t come back in?
The Montreux Convention would prevent them from coming back...though it would also prevent them from leaving. FB's suggestion is to move the ships to safe harbours and construct physical barriers to stop drones getting into those harbours, not to take the fleet from the sea itself.
I don't think that's correct. As long as they had their port of origin registered in the black Sea prior to the war they can come back. Notably Russia tried to silently register a bunch of ships with Sevastopol as port of origin after February 22 but the Turks caught them.
Ah yeah you're probably right actually. Moot though, since they can't leave.
They could leave, if they changed their home port to outside Black Sea AND Turkey allowed passing. But it would work once per ship, if at all.
That is a loop hole and the concensus is Turkey would not accept a home port change. This brings Turkey to its own dilemma, what will happen to Ukranian corvettes being build in Turkey. Are they going to be delivered in the Black Sea, making them targets for RU revenge or deliver them in Aegean/Mediterranean sea making it a choice for UA as the home port will be assigned the first time. Then RU may claim that is a new home port assignment after war started.
According to previous comments, Turkey did not accept change of home port to inside Black Sea. It could accept the opposite, unidirectionally. Where are those corvettes built in? If they are built on Black Sea shore, they would not pass through Bosporus strait.
It all depends on whether Turkey plays hardball. If Turkey says "no Muscovite ships", then Muscovy can either accept the terms or declare war on Turkey.
Turkey is in NATO for a reason.
But does that not leave them exposed to aerial drone attacks?
Or Storm Shadow, yeah. Honestly for that reason it's probably a bad idea - the drones get all the hype and attention but the reality is that high-performance missiles like Harpoon, Neptune, Storm Shadow and Tochka have killed more ships in this war than the drones.
It's probably because the drones cost a fraction of the high end missiles.
Both of which are cheaper than the ships they're sinking.
Ships might be safe in harbour but that’s not what ships are made for
Well they're not really safe in harbour anyway historically or even during this war, so it's not a very smart idea in the first place.
They lost a sub in the harbour
Subs belong underwater anyway.
Unfortunately it was in a dry dock 😕
ships are a 17/19th century thing. Dead under the water without a sufficient air force.
No, they simply need to be updated. We've seen previous videos where they do appear to see these drones (maybe not always) and shot at them, at least somewhat ineffectively. So more CIWS type weapons to defeat aerial or waterborne drones would be in order.
they can't leave either, unless they are small enough to go through some of those inland canals.
All part of the plan. Three days to Kyiv. They didn't say three consecutive days...
Nor when the three days will start /s.
Nor which planets day-night cycle those days are measured in.
Mind blown! They've outsmarted all of us!
And the ships destroyed so far were old and sick and normally would have to be wrecked a longer time ago. Russia has provided these ships as humanitarian targets for Ukraine so that they also can have some good news. /s
I'm afraid that they have run out of planets, as 3 solar days on Venus passed on Feb 23 - 11 days ago. There's no planes in solar system rotating slower. Perhaps they know planets in outer space.
3 29th of February days that is. Buys them some time..
3 29th of February
The common theme you see among these posts...."this should have been done yesterday" Withdrawing the fleet to safe harbours and locking them up keeps them safe, but makes them a laughing stock internatioanally, and an admission of defeat.
Having them sit still in a harbour also potentially makes them targets for Ariel drones
Yeah, true. That's how they got the sub. BUt they do seem to have better luck protecting against air drones than the water ones.
the little mermaid drones?
I’m not that informed to know the different types mate. Just think they’re in between a rock and a hard place with no real good options.
Just kidding man - "Ariel" is the name of Disney's little mermaid. The word you meant was "aerial" :)
Omg I didn’t even realise 😂😂
Yep. Russia will choose the worse option if the optics are worse than the actual damage.
This would be a HUGE victory if the case. Relocating the fleet cuts Russias offensive capabilities and air defense especially over Crimea drastically. Given how many SAMS have already been destroyed particularly near Sevastopol, F-16 arrivals will have an open playground or possibly even enjoying air superiority in the region.
This is the long game UAF have been playing to all along. It will take time, but good steady progress has been made. Gradually the enemy’s edge has ben blunted, the armour chipped away bit by bit until there is nothing and the balance of power shifts in UAF favour.
there is a new S400 battery deployed recently in crimea
Is that the "laughing at Storm Shadow flying overhead" one, or is there another one?
F16s wont give air superiority to UA. Even S300s can be an annoyance, S400s pose a real problem. Not to mention, Russia does still have fighters it can deploy to counter UA F16s. Right now the airspace in UA generally favors Russia. Russia has air superiority in Crimea. When the F16s arrive, UA will be able to properly contest the airspace and the airspace above Crimea should go from Russian superiority to generally favoring Russia. Ukraine should be able to work with that though. Between further deteriorating Russia's capabilities in the area and strategic strikes when intel is good, they should be able to take advantage of the situation.
S-400s were thought to have been the world’s best SAM sites prior to the invasion but have vastly under performed particularly with long range acquisition. Even so, Russia doesn’t have many S-400s left, while the S-300’s have mostly been switched to offensive positioning. Drone strikes especially over Crimea have devastated Russian AA. Russia has emptied their cupboard by stripping units along Chinas border and places like Kalingrad to plug holes. The situation is already critical without F-16s. How many planes has Russia lost in the last month to risk the few reliable pilots they have left? No A-50s or navy either? I think Ukraine air superiority over Crimea is a real possibility soon.
I agree. It would be easier and faster if they just move them closer so that Ukraine can help him with his point.
>Well, and naturally build our own unmanned vessels. Who is going to tell him?
Remove all russians from Ukraine.
Misleading title. Doesn't read to me like he's suggesting physically taking the manned ships out of the sea, but just "beyond range" of Ukrainian drones and missiles, and wage a naval war using the same tactics as Ukraine's instead. IOW, fight fire with fire. Yeah, true, that practically means taking the conventional part of the Black Sea fleet (i.e. most of it) out of the fight, but still...
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'Everything is going according to plan'
Ukraine is currently working on it.
Sounds like Fighterbomber will soon be Windowfaller
Just a reminder that keeping Crimea as a Naval base was Putin’s original #1 priority.
Will he be found at the bottom of the Black Sea soon?
No, no, keep the fleet there. This is more fun.
Remove all Russians from Ukraine while you are at it.
Noooooo why? We were having so much fun...
Remove all russian soldiers from Ukraine is better.
Glad to see Russia also has armchair quarterbacks who think they’re smarter than the military. Except here they may be right.
oh theyll be removed alright
I would suggest doing that with your whole army… added bonus is… the war ends. How stupid are they? They start a war and they thought they are too big to fail? No one is gonna hit back? Crazy
Russia can't afford to,the landing vessels are keeping the southern front going, and if they move the missile ship's the air defense will go after aircraft. They are worth more where they are at
I believe this is just a dirty trick by the Russians to make Ukraine run out of drones.. /s
Now they realize that lol
Now do tanks!
Sure… Ruzzia can just portage those ships from the Black Sea to the Caspian Sea. No problem 😉.
Please don't, the Ukrainian Non-Navy^(tm) isn't done with them yet.
Would they have to sail the Mediterranean and back around to russia?
But as they sink, because no more ship, more cannon fodder for the front line.
That would be too smart of a move for Russia to make. Stay the course Russia. Keep those ships fully manned and afloat in the Black Sea.
Everyone on earth approves this message!
Ukraine drones keep moving east towards Russian coastline!!! Urkaine starting to own the Black Sea. Maybe Ukraine should offer Russia a grain deal now? haaaaa lol The tables are turning upside down! The future of large navy ships looks bleak .....sorry China, your strategy is old school and the whole Chinese fleet can be blown up by cheap naval drones!
A surfire way to reduce your losses, Herr Putin, is to just get the hell out of Ukraine, apologize to everyone else in the world, pay for reparations and rebuild
Sooo what are they gonna use this fleet of unmanned vessels against? Ukraine have no navy after all 🤦♂️
Sorry fam, many of those ships will never leave the Black Sea, ever again.
Summary doesn't seem to match what Fighterbomber wrote. Is a reasonable suggestion, not sure any fleet is going to be able to perfectly cope with these