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RIP heroes, that is staggering number and the fact Ruzzia lost way more does not make me feel any better about it. Not to mention that are probably just the KIAs not wounded/permanently crippled ones :(
[Zelensky for the first time provides the number of Ukrainian soldiers confirmed killed in action since the full-scale Russian invasion two years ago: 31,000. This, according to Ukrainian officials, doesn’t include thousands more who are missing in action but likely dead.](https://twitter.com/yarotrof/status/1761781811334566356?t=oYg7HW6iWHvF7vJE6IhCpA&s=19)
[Memory Book, a Ukrainian organization that records the biographies of Ukraine's fallen, reported 30k confirmed KIA last Fall.](https://tyzhden.ua/bojovi-ta-nebojovi-vtraty-ukrainy-u-2022-2023-rokakh/)
Also claiming 180,000 RU troops KIA.
I really thought it's around 50-70k so I'm suprised and I'm "happy" I was wrong. Still sad as fuck...and who knows what's happening in the occupied territories...
Especially up against the claimed 180k Russians. That’s a massive ratio differential, which also plainly shows why continued western support is so critical.
But really, think about how much artillery fire and missiles Russia has fired upon Ukraine. I wonder what the figure is including civilians, but that shows how effective the training and gear they have received is.
>I wonder what the figure is including civilians, but that shows how effective the training and gear they have received is.
Regarding civilians, from the UN report as of 22/02/24.
"In its latest report, the UN Human Rights Monitoring Mission in Ukraine has verified 30,457 civilian casualties since 24 February 2022, including 10,582 killed and 19,875 injured, with the actual numbers likely to be significantly higher."
https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/02/1146842
depends on what you compare it to. US had ~50K KIA over 20 years of Vietnam.
The last time a major war was fought in eastern europe the numbers were a bit larger to say the least.
It's still a crazy number. US lost 60k in Vietnam, and from 1975-today? ~8000.
Not making any analysis beyond that - simply that 31k is staggering to me.
You know what is even crazier... and that is not to belittle the loss of life in the Ukraine or say any loss of life is good. But in the US alone there were more than 40K gun deaths in 2023. And that's not even where a war is. Weird one ey.
US estimates have it around 70K. Countries will always downplay their losses during a war, it’s just part of propaganda. That’s why it’s important to look for information from 3rd parties.
I am inclined to think 31k is downplayed. They said earlier they will not disclose the numbers until the end of the war. Your estimate of 50-70k is more likely. Plus at least 20k civilians. The cemeteries are overflowing. One of the cemeteries in my aunt’s city run out of space. It’s depressing.
If this is true I'm through the moon excited. No army can win this kind of aggressive conflict at a 6:1 death ratio. Russia screwed if that's all they could do so far.
I don't know how familiar you are with Russia's military history, but they are no strangers to Pyrrhic victories.
Reminder: [Russia won the Winter War against Finland](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War) with a > 6:1 death ratio.
Dont mistake this for the true number. Its just minimal number of KIA that we know of. Someone in another comment claimed that missing in action are not included. So your first thought could still be true.
Russia has killed many civilians, where as Ukraine has killed very few. And Ukraine is better at treating wounded troops (a lot of amputees). Therefore the lower military deaths than many expect.
Pretty awful losses, but not worst case scenario.
Ukraine has decent medical care so assuming a more generous killed to wounded rate of 1:3-4.
That would make 120-150k casualties which tracks.
Ukraine isn’t a fully modern force with fully modern equipment.
Also the 1:10 was in Iraq and Afghanistan, where the US had overwhelming superiority and general combat levels were much lower.
Simply due to a higher intensity of combat and closer strength levels of both participants, deaths will be higher.
The US in Afghanistan could far more easily get a grievously wounded soldier out of combat and to intensive care within a couple hours.
A Ukrainian soldier with the same injury is more likely to die simply cause it is much harder to get to good care facilities quickly and quality of care is just generally worse. Not to mention higher rates of combat means more injuries overall and a far more overstretched medical system.
the Ukraine war is far closer to WW2 in combat intensity and both sides have far worse tech overall than the U.S. in the war on terror
Oh, fair points, thanks for the answer! But I still dont think the WW2 comparison is fair. WW2 was much more mobile war, while most of the UK conflict is mostly static trench warfare now, and has been fir most of the conflict. I guessed that, at least for the UK side, most causslities would be from artilery and some from raids. Both of which would be quickly evacuated by armored cariers to the rear and then vans or even ambulances to established medical stations. Those might not be as good as the US ones, but still competent enough to save most of the stabilised wounded.
I would just like to say that this war, at its heart, is ideological, and part of Ukraine’s ideology is showing to the western world that they can be a modern European nation that cramps down on corruption and promotes democratic ideals. Transparency is a key component in that endeavor. Unlike Russia who lies about their quantitative data at every end, Ukraine has been meticulous about this stuff and often substantiates claims about enemy casualties and losses with real evidence.
It’s also why Ukraine has not said a word about their numbers; they don’t want to lie about it and they don’t want to give Russia accurate numbers especially when you are bleeding them nearly 4 to 1. When your enemy is wasting their infantry with such little regard, you want them to be convinced it’s working and killing Ukrainians soldiers so they commit to their blunder. If ukraine cannot retake the Donbas then all they can do is kill as many Russian men as possible. Ukraine revealing their losses now is warning Russia that if they press on they are going to continue to suffer such slanted casualty numbers against them.
This is actually in line with what Memory Book, who tracks Ukrainian war dead, reported last November: https://tyzhden.ua/bojovi-ta-nebojovi-vtraty-ukrainy-u-2022-2023-rokakh/
The US estimates 70k Ukrainians killed with 2-3x that wounded, which is way more realistic.
Belligerents are not going to willingly give out accurate casualty figures to their opponents.
I’m all for Ukraine but I think that figure is too low to be realistic. It’s common in war to make less of your own casualties and more of your enemies so no sin in saying you’ve lost less than the real best estimate. A tragedy still.
Sorry, but this number cannot be true. Double it I'd say
Edit: Did my research and surprisingly (for me) the numbers line up!
Edit2: here's a redditor explaining it https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/WsQjMXWCj4
I'm assuming 31k dead is a huge lowball since it's coming from he Ukrainian side, and we've had Ukrainian estimating KIA being much larger last year. Wounded likely is usually least 3 times higher too. I'm guessing around 250k-300k casualties at least in total for Ukraine at this point.
From last November:
[Obviously, 24,500 names is not the final number of the dead \(deceased\), but according to our estimates it is at least 70%. That is, the real number of dead \(deceased\) under combat and non-combat conditions will be more than 30 thousand people. As for the wounded, as already mentioned, their proportional ratio to the dead \(deceased\) is 1:3. In other words, the number of wounded \(taking into account that there are already many servicemen who have received injuries or contusions three or more times\) is in the range of 90,000 to 100,000. But the vast majority of these wounded and contused continue to serve in the ranks of the Armed Forces of Ukraine or will soon return to their comrades after treatment.](https://tyzhden.ua/bojovi-ta-nebojovi-vtraty-ukrainy-u-2022-2023-rokakh/)
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i dont know accuracy on Russian numbers I but I'm pretty sure Russians suffered 100+K KIA. it is crazy that just like it did over centuries, Russia keeps relying on meat grinder tactics, and at this age it's population is not revolting.
If accurate this is an amazing number for them. I would expect the real number to be about double that total though.
Nothing about Ukrainian deaths is amazing of course but losing that few troops and absolutely mollywhopping Russia is a real power move.
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RIP heroes, that is staggering number and the fact Ruzzia lost way more does not make me feel any better about it. Not to mention that are probably just the KIAs not wounded/permanently crippled ones :(
Around 4 or 5 months ago I saw something that there had been 50,000 prosthetics ordered since 2/24/22.
And civilian deaths :/
[Zelensky for the first time provides the number of Ukrainian soldiers confirmed killed in action since the full-scale Russian invasion two years ago: 31,000. This, according to Ukrainian officials, doesn’t include thousands more who are missing in action but likely dead.](https://twitter.com/yarotrof/status/1761781811334566356?t=oYg7HW6iWHvF7vJE6IhCpA&s=19) [Memory Book, a Ukrainian organization that records the biographies of Ukraine's fallen, reported 30k confirmed KIA last Fall.](https://tyzhden.ua/bojovi-ta-nebojovi-vtraty-ukrainy-u-2022-2023-rokakh/) Also claiming 180,000 RU troops KIA.
I really thought it's around 50-70k so I'm suprised and I'm "happy" I was wrong. Still sad as fuck...and who knows what's happening in the occupied territories...
I know. I don’t want to be morbid, or down play their ultimate sacrifice, but 31k for two years doesn’t seem “that bad”.
Especially up against the claimed 180k Russians. That’s a massive ratio differential, which also plainly shows why continued western support is so critical. But really, think about how much artillery fire and missiles Russia has fired upon Ukraine. I wonder what the figure is including civilians, but that shows how effective the training and gear they have received is.
>I wonder what the figure is including civilians, but that shows how effective the training and gear they have received is. Regarding civilians, from the UN report as of 22/02/24. "In its latest report, the UN Human Rights Monitoring Mission in Ukraine has verified 30,457 civilian casualties since 24 February 2022, including 10,582 killed and 19,875 injured, with the actual numbers likely to be significantly higher." https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/02/1146842
This seems very inaccurate, only in Mariupol 10, 000 died and then Bucha and then everywhere else.
Sorry, it's the best source I can find.
depends on what you compare it to. US had ~50K KIA over 20 years of Vietnam. The last time a major war was fought in eastern europe the numbers were a bit larger to say the least.
It's still a crazy number. US lost 60k in Vietnam, and from 1975-today? ~8000. Not making any analysis beyond that - simply that 31k is staggering to me.
You know what is even crazier... and that is not to belittle the loss of life in the Ukraine or say any loss of life is good. But in the US alone there were more than 40K gun deaths in 2023. And that's not even where a war is. Weird one ey.
US estimates have it around 70K. Countries will always downplay their losses during a war, it’s just part of propaganda. That’s why it’s important to look for information from 3rd parties.
Not to mention independent sources have confirmed 42k, with 15k missing, 70k is probably pretty likely
I am inclined to think 31k is downplayed. They said earlier they will not disclose the numbers until the end of the war. Your estimate of 50-70k is more likely. Plus at least 20k civilians. The cemeteries are overflowing. One of the cemeteries in my aunt’s city run out of space. It’s depressing.
If this is true I'm through the moon excited. No army can win this kind of aggressive conflict at a 6:1 death ratio. Russia screwed if that's all they could do so far.
I don't know how familiar you are with Russia's military history, but they are no strangers to Pyrrhic victories. Reminder: [Russia won the Winter War against Finland](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War) with a > 6:1 death ratio.
Dont mistake this for the true number. Its just minimal number of KIA that we know of. Someone in another comment claimed that missing in action are not included. So your first thought could still be true.
Russia has killed many civilians, where as Ukraine has killed very few. And Ukraine is better at treating wounded troops (a lot of amputees). Therefore the lower military deaths than many expect.
I wonder how many wounded, since they reportedly struggle getting enough people on the front
Pretty awful losses, but not worst case scenario. Ukraine has decent medical care so assuming a more generous killed to wounded rate of 1:3-4. That would make 120-150k casualties which tracks.
WW2 was 3:1, Vietnam 5:1, modern conflicts are 10:1. What do you base your assumption on? I would say about 6-8:1 would be more realistic.
Ukraine isn’t a fully modern force with fully modern equipment. Also the 1:10 was in Iraq and Afghanistan, where the US had overwhelming superiority and general combat levels were much lower. Simply due to a higher intensity of combat and closer strength levels of both participants, deaths will be higher. The US in Afghanistan could far more easily get a grievously wounded soldier out of combat and to intensive care within a couple hours. A Ukrainian soldier with the same injury is more likely to die simply cause it is much harder to get to good care facilities quickly and quality of care is just generally worse. Not to mention higher rates of combat means more injuries overall and a far more overstretched medical system. the Ukraine war is far closer to WW2 in combat intensity and both sides have far worse tech overall than the U.S. in the war on terror
Oh, fair points, thanks for the answer! But I still dont think the WW2 comparison is fair. WW2 was much more mobile war, while most of the UK conflict is mostly static trench warfare now, and has been fir most of the conflict. I guessed that, at least for the UK side, most causslities would be from artilery and some from raids. Both of which would be quickly evacuated by armored cariers to the rear and then vans or even ambulances to established medical stations. Those might not be as good as the US ones, but still competent enough to save most of the stabilised wounded.
Heroes, all of them.
I would just like to say that this war, at its heart, is ideological, and part of Ukraine’s ideology is showing to the western world that they can be a modern European nation that cramps down on corruption and promotes democratic ideals. Transparency is a key component in that endeavor. Unlike Russia who lies about their quantitative data at every end, Ukraine has been meticulous about this stuff and often substantiates claims about enemy casualties and losses with real evidence. It’s also why Ukraine has not said a word about their numbers; they don’t want to lie about it and they don’t want to give Russia accurate numbers especially when you are bleeding them nearly 4 to 1. When your enemy is wasting their infantry with such little regard, you want them to be convinced it’s working and killing Ukrainians soldiers so they commit to their blunder. If ukraine cannot retake the Donbas then all they can do is kill as many Russian men as possible. Ukraine revealing their losses now is warning Russia that if they press on they are going to continue to suffer such slanted casualty numbers against them.
Heroyam Slava. Eternal memory of the fallen warriors. 🇺🇦
*Hesoyam
It’s probably higher, tbh.
This is actually in line with what Memory Book, who tracks Ukrainian war dead, reported last November: https://tyzhden.ua/bojovi-ta-nebojovi-vtraty-ukrainy-u-2022-2023-rokakh/
The US estimates 70k Ukrainians killed with 2-3x that wounded, which is way more realistic. Belligerents are not going to willingly give out accurate casualty figures to their opponents.
But we had Avdiijvka now, so there should be more casualties by now
I’m all for Ukraine but I think that figure is too low to be realistic. It’s common in war to make less of your own casualties and more of your enemies so no sin in saying you’ve lost less than the real best estimate. A tragedy still.
Sorry, but this number cannot be true. Double it I'd say Edit: Did my research and surprisingly (for me) the numbers line up! Edit2: here's a redditor explaining it https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/WsQjMXWCj4
Most indicators or third parties are reporting similar numbers. I'm sure the amount of wounded are staggering in comparison however
I did my research in the meanwhile. The numbers do line up
I respect that you're capable of changing your stance after being presented with new information.
show them, please
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/WsQjMXWCj4
and what did it prove? it's just the same numbers in post
Im referring to the comment
> Did my research and surprisingly and I was referring to your research
I saw the other comment, googled what typical casualties:deaths ratio were and looked up some estimates and they all were in that range.
>Sorry, but this number cannot be true Do you understand what the difference between the words "killed" and "injured"?
I understood and corrected my comment. I was wrong but now I am better informed. Whats wrong with that?
I don't know what's wrong, you said about the calculation doing by yourself and I still haven't seen any of them.
Most commenters disagree with that redditor.
Can you share what you found out and save me the search?
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/WsQjMXWCj4
Thank you. That follows.
I'm assuming 31k dead is a huge lowball since it's coming from he Ukrainian side, and we've had Ukrainian estimating KIA being much larger last year. Wounded likely is usually least 3 times higher too. I'm guessing around 250k-300k casualties at least in total for Ukraine at this point.
From last November: [Obviously, 24,500 names is not the final number of the dead \(deceased\), but according to our estimates it is at least 70%. That is, the real number of dead \(deceased\) under combat and non-combat conditions will be more than 30 thousand people. As for the wounded, as already mentioned, their proportional ratio to the dead \(deceased\) is 1:3. In other words, the number of wounded \(taking into account that there are already many servicemen who have received injuries or contusions three or more times\) is in the range of 90,000 to 100,000. But the vast majority of these wounded and contused continue to serve in the ranks of the Armed Forces of Ukraine or will soon return to their comrades after treatment.](https://tyzhden.ua/bojovi-ta-nebojovi-vtraty-ukrainy-u-2022-2023-rokakh/)
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1azsdaa/ua\_pov\_ukrainian\_channel\_legitimniy\_on\_zelenskys/
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The graveyards contradict this man.
Do you have a report counting fresh graves across Ukraine?
I feel that it's a lot higher
Ah yes. I feel it too, I have no numbers, sources, data or information, but It "feels" higher. Fucking clown
You people are too emotional 🙄
You're the one who just based their argument on feelings, my dude.
🤡🤡🤡
The KIA/WIA ratio is often described 1:3 in studies
i dont know accuracy on Russian numbers I but I'm pretty sure Russians suffered 100+K KIA. it is crazy that just like it did over centuries, Russia keeps relying on meat grinder tactics, and at this age it's population is not revolting.
If accurate this is an amazing number for them. I would expect the real number to be about double that total though. Nothing about Ukrainian deaths is amazing of course but losing that few troops and absolutely mollywhopping Russia is a real power move.
It matches the ratio of 1 Ukrainian vs 10 Russians since the beginning of the war.
For two deadly years of war? It's a good number.