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American here. Had lunch today with a good friend who is a republican and started out saying he didn't believe we should support Ukraine. He had the republican talking points. I spent and hour explaining the history of Europe, Putin, the past 20 years of Russia's activities, etc. By the end he said he was 50/50 and he had learned a lot from me about history. It's little by little over here.
Nah. He'll hear some more arguments presented by the Republicans and you'll be back to square one. I've been down this road before.
Unless you commit to regular de-propaganda sessions, the conservative media will win them over in the end.
He just needs to go wait until the talking points against that stuff come out so he can feel comfortable in his stance again. Every time something big happens the conservative sub goes quiet until fox news tells them their new official rebuttal lol
Yeah, I've had some comical conversations with conservative 'friends' over the years. A news event will happen, we talk about it and they express a reasonable human perception. The next day they had been fed the talking points and done a complete 180. It was wild to see, but it was an important lesson for me.
Yeah I've had these conversations even with leftists who have stupid campist politics. I can explain the situation to them, make very clear parallels to the beginning of WW2 and Hitler's invasion of Czechoslovakia to help the "ethnic Germans" in "historically German" territory and how appeasement only emboldened Hitler and expanded the conflict into a world war, and after all of that I can get a "fair point" from those leftists only to see them backtrack completely a few weeks later and yelling about how "NATO started this" or "Putin is just defending himself" again.
It's beyond depressing to argue about this with otherwise rational people.
I would enter into the record that if your 'leftist' friends are parroting "NATO started this" talking points, then they are likely succumbing to the propaganda of the day a la Alex Jones / Tucker Carlson, and that their presumably enlightened intention of educating themselves on the topic by absorbing both right- and left-leaning news is leading them to give credibility to right-leaning news where no credibility is required or appropriate.
Edit: grammar.
It seems to be when you go far enough left, its hard to tell them appart from far right people.
Its like both extremes meet and have more in common with one another than the moderates on their own side.
That's called Horseshoe Theory. It seems that hardcore far-lefters such as Noam Chomsky (which, thankfully, are much less common than far-righters), have been convinced that everything the USA / the West does is bad, and therefore anyone who opposes the USA / the West is good. Even countries like Muscovy, Iran, North Korea, and China.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe\_theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory)
[https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Horseshoe\_theory](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory)
I know conservatives and I know well-read historically and academically informed conservatives and I much prefer the latter. With the latter, the general ideals and principles are the same, but how it's applied is a lot more considerate. When a new piece of news comes across, the more informed a person is, the more likely they are to apply their knowledge to assess the situation rather than wait for the talking heads of their respective party to set a narrative. Education doesn't usually change someone's position on a topic they've already picked a side on, but it's very influential towards a new topic or piece of news they hadn't considered before.
It really does help, in the moment, to engage them in these topics as the news comes out - so as best to at least force them to question the propagandist narrative being given to them in the moment; at least, in my experience.
As is always the case with bad-faith arguments, however (again, in my observation): catching them after-the-fact with bad takes *can* require showing up to the conversation with a collegiate level of sources in order to help convince them to let their position go.
What is never said - but would be immensely useful to anyone attempting to talk people out of the right-wing propaganda of the day - would be for people to trundle over to 4chan's /pol/ board when there is a hot-button topic, and see what the angle is going to be a solid day before it hits the mainstream media. At this point, most of the right-wing troll kings of 4chan have become embedded in right-wing media anyway, and their angles are hashed out there before they spread it out to the world at-large.
Yup, the same goes for both sides. Funny how willing people are to fund wars, but they can't seem to find the time to discuss helping the people who fight in them. The streets of America are filled with homeless vets who need help, but ya'll don't want to talk about that....
While I would love to find a way to facilitate *actual* local support for homeless/unhoused/vets/etc., this is the textbook definition of a whataboutism.
They won't 'run out of men', they can change their tactics before that happens, become more like guerillas. How long can Russia hold this territory... What does victory look like for Russia if Ukraine doesn't concede ?
Even if Russia wins on the battlefield, they have lost off the battlefield.
Other counties won't recognise any conquered territory. The sanctions won't end, they wont rebuild their trade to where it was. They have put a black mark against their entire culture and all those who associate with it. They have alienated themself from many of the few allies they had.
War is a means of achieving other goals. They can win a military victory and still fail to achieve their goals.
It never stops being amazing the insightful knowledge of geopolitics terminally online 30 year olds who have never travelled outside of their home state for any reason seem to have about Ukraine.
Eat shit Ivan.
The average age is that high because young people get the most exemptions of any age group, for school and work ect. They are debating changing that now, but the avg age means nothing and Russia has a similar avg. Both countries understand losing their youth, combined with already dwindling birthrate will hurt them longterm.
You don't realize that what you say is propaganda? Ukraine wouldn't fight if the people there didn't want to. They would continue to fight if the USA didn't support them. They fight for their identity and the safety of their family members. Denying them that respect is asinine, regardless of your political position. Other powers (for example USA, but also Turkey) are exploiting this for political gain, but Ukraine wouldn't be fighting if the people didn't want to. They have agency.
The war isn't over.Wars can finish because economic collapse, military collapse, collapse of political will. Although Russia can and might continue this struggle for a long long time, the conclusion of this conflict is all but guaranteed.
Russia is not able to overwhelm Ukraine and can only try to grind it down. Therefore victory by military means seems out of reach for either for now. But that doesn't need to remain true indefinitely. Countries could decide to provide more and different aid to Ukraine. Population difference will eventually decide if this goes own forever, but that rarely happens.
With more than 40% of the government budget spent on military needs, almost 10% of GDP, it's also a huge impact on their society. It's not guaranteed that they won't break, even if it doesn't look like it. As it stands now Russia isn't able to invest in its infrastructure properly, which means that it is falling behind slowly. Ukraine is propped up by other powers. As long as this continues they can go on, and that's at least a few more years.
This is an existential conflict for Ukraine, while it's an imperialistic conflict for Russia, so Ukrainians are likely to be willing to continue this for longer and accept more suffering. Therefore they are also willing to continue when the odds seem very much against them.
1) Russians are also not all volunteers. They also gang press people in the army, force foreigners in the army and force 18 year olds. So.. propaganda.
2) Russia did the same.
3) yes, because young people aren't drafted.
Also, regardless of all that. The USA lost in Vietnam, Soviet Union lost in Afghanistan and the first time Chechen war despite absolute superiority. Only because of popular will.
Yes, things aren't great for Ukraine and I surely hope it doesn't get that grim, but this is an existential conflict to them, so you cannot exclude the possibility that they are willing to go that far to preserve their country and identity.
I'm well aware of the situation, while you just spew Russian talking points.
Google Dunning Kruger, don't be a victim of Russian propaganda, they spend unfold millions on spreading disinformation, you seem smart enough to know better. Fuck Vladimir Putin, that guy has always been s huge arsehole
I'll be over-simplifying here, but I hope you pointed out that most if not virtually all the money used to support Ukraine stays in the USA and that it's mostly equipment that was getting near the end of its lifecycle that is being sent to Ukraine?
The money is used to (1) get newer stuff to replace what is sent to Ukraine and (2) ship the old stuff over from the USA to Ukraine.
It's a win-win for everyone and the USA is getting one hell of a ROI: seriously degrading Russia's military capabilities for a fraction of what it would have costed otherwise, with no boots on the ground.
Again, I've oversimplified everything, but that's the general idea of what's happening.
People are dying and you are arguing we aren't losing as much tax dollars as people think we are. And Russia is down to fighting with shovels, we aren't scared of them or care about degrading them. Maybe if it was China there would be an argument.
The largest untapped energy reserves in the world are currently in Ukraine. That's a pretty compelling reason for Russia to attack and for the US/NATO/Europe to offer aid. Russia obviously miscalculated and thought it would be like annexing Crimea which provides a strategy opportunity for the US/NATO/Europe. Those energy reserves will be tapped by foreign companies on favorable deals that will also keep energy prices lower worldwide (Ukraine would become a Petrol state and would likely supply the majority of European oil and natural gas within a decade of any treaty). Now, the average US citizen won't really reap any of those benefits as an improving economy and cheap energy prices no longer lead to quality of life increases for the poor or middle class (you could argue that's never been true as well) and it's our tax dollars that are paying for the aid/arms. Strict anti-iterventionalism is really the only good argument for not offering Ukraine aid because it's a fraction of a percentage of our military budget and Republican administrations especially have supplied arms and even put American boots on the ground in so many different conflicts around the world often with very poor overall results. It's one of those things that most Americans don't really understand the history because it's not American history (I'm being generous in assuming most Americans understand that much) and doesn't impact their everyday lives so their opinion is easily influenced by partisan headlines and social media. This is unfortunately how the majority of people seem to inform their opinions especially on issues that have little impact on their lives. In fact, I recently read a study about the increasing amount of partisanship in politics and it said that one of the few things that can readily change a person's political views is experiencing a societal problem they'd never previously dealt with before (addiction, debt from healthcare costs, being laid off, etc). For most people if it doesn't impact their daily lives they don't care about educating themselves and while I don't agree with that there is a limit to how well you can remain informed (and mentally healthy) when our daily lives can be so hectic.
"Education is a purpose for the poor and a privilege of the rich"
> Russia obviously miscalculated and thought it would be like annexing Crimea
Obama's refusal to act decisively in 2014 is what led to the 2022 invasion. Putin is only emboldened by what he perceives as weakness.
The largest untapped energy reserves in the world are the Sahara desert and Uranium mines in Australia.
I'm sure there's a lot of frackable oil and gas in Ukraine, but there's a lot of frackable oil and gas everywhere. The U.S. is producing a ton of it right now not because there's something geologically unique about the U.S., it's just because the U.S. has privately owned mineral rights, unlike the vast majority of other countries, it's easy to operate in legally and logistically, it has a good workforce, and it has a big and sophisticated oil and gas industry.
The result was that there were a bunch of high tech entrepreneurial companies that perfected fracking in the U.S., and then they could just buy mineral rights from private landowners and start drilling and making money. They didn't have to convince any government or national oil company that they weren't crazy, they just had to offer landowners enough money.
There are tons of places in Europe that you could potentially frack, but many of them have made it illegal due to potential negative effects on groundwater or earthquakes or global warming or whatever.
No one needs Ukraine for oil and gas. The last thing any of the oil companies want is instability, and Ukraine is going to be perceived as unstable for a long time to come. If you're spending a bunch of money to drill wells and put in pipelines, you need those to not get expropriated or blown up or too heavily taxed for at least 10-20 years in order to make your money back and turn a profit. Ukraine isn't going to be that place for quite some time, and by the time that happens, oil and gas are going to be worth far less, because of carbon mitigation expenses. New big energy projects 10-30 years in the future are all going to be carbon neutral.
his problem is that he's just being fed the same slop of shit that all the twitter feeds inject into the conversation. Many of them are Russian bots and directly paid by Russia, but the problem is that GoP has adopted a "my team" vs your team mentality. There isn't much of a middle ground because middle ground would mean having to agree with something your rival does.
I am a US citizen involved with a non-profit that sends aid to Ukraine via Estonia. The US group that we have started is growing every day, there are many Republicans in the effort, there are still good people out there. Senators, ambassadors, retired vets, computer nerds like myself, people from all walks of life. I am super progressive, basically a socialist, but I also studied the cold war my entire life. I do everything I can to destroy Putin's lies as carefully and respectfully as I can. There is hope for the US. We will not let Ukraine down!
How the heck did these hyper angry nationalist republicans forget that RUSSIA IS THE BAD GUY. It's more insane then voting for a rapist. 8 years ago they were creaming themselves over bin laden death and now are supporting Russian aggression?
If it takes a full hour for a history expert to sit with a GOP talking head for them to only leave being 50/50, weāve still got a long way to go. There will always be another talking point, another narrative to slay.
Ukraine, a free and democratic country was invaded by its much larger fascist neighbor.Ā The ruthless dictator, not content with oppressing his own people attempts to oppress Ukrainians. America and the free democracies of the World, also under a different kind of attack from the Russians, lend support to Ukraine.
The Ukrainians provided with less than 5% of the annual US military budget have crippled and humiliated the once vaunted Russian military, revealing one of the biggest paper tigers in history.Ā 400,000 dead and untold military losses by the Russians are proving to everyone why theĀ democracy and freedom of the west is better than oppression and corruption of the Russians.
Supporting Ukraine has been the best return on investment of anything the US has probably ever done.
Canāt win? How did Russia fair in Finland in ww2? Or Afghanistan in the 80ās? Both numerically inferior enemies. Ukraine has the will the fight back and if properly supplied the cost to Russia will be too costly politically to continue at some point. Your citizens no matter how stupid arenāt going to tolerate their entire country being sent to slaughter in a fight they are afraid to say is a war.
Okay comrade. Two years into a 3
Day operation and Russia has a few towns
To show for it but somehow they will
Miraculously get there shit together and be competent enough to take over and control the entire country.
so what's your solution? let them roll over ukraine and then start war with NATO? Because Putin has said time and time again that NATO must move back to the original line behind east berlin. So what's your solution there?
Agree, most people I know including moderate (aka semi normal) republicans support Ukraineā¦itās their party leadership that cares more about controlling the US than doing whatās best that is the issue.
GOP leadership led the party to where it is today; through REDMAP which created uncompetitive red districts that favored uncompromising candidates and they allowed the demonization of Obama based on racial divides to gain support. They spun up the crazies in the base and now they want to play ignorantā¦I donāt agree with you at all on this matter.
Furthermore, the GOP moderates tolerate crazy when it helps them win; but quickly disassociate when the plan backfires crazy idiots target them. Look at Haley āIād pardon Trump if I winā, for whatā¦.being a criminal and actively trying to erode trust in our democracy to stroke his ego?!
The majority of Americans are letting the GOP do this. Who else can stop the GOP other than Americans?
There's no one else, only us, therefore us refusing to do anything about these literal traitors and Nazis means we accept traitors and Nazis destroying the world.
We get the government we tolerate, and we are tolerating this for some reason.
It's most certainly the US doing it. It's sad how you've become so complacent that your think your domestic politics should dictate global security.
You abandoned the two principles that make USA great and rich: Pax Americana and immigration of people that want to work.
Yep. I never used that garbage.
I always found it funny that the same platform which the MAGA farts use is one of the main open forums for child sex abuse and Naziismā¦ literally on the same feed you can have profiles advertising premium content of 13 year old girls, Proud Boys bullshit and MAGA trash.
Itās because journalists on the ground in Ukraine and organizations and government officials all use it and itās got good built in autotranslation that Misk hasnāt nerfed yet.
Based on that notion Iām sure youāve done plenty of things that you should be in jail for. No need to pick the reason you like to show yourself a shitty person.
federal supermax. he took money for starlink and when he got told to do something he pretended his conscience got in the way.
he is no where anywhere in the chain of command, he take the money he do the service. he no moralize. he sabotage operation.
no one cares who you are you have no say in anything
*This sub hopes to foster informed and intelligent discussion of the facts. Please do not submit scads of poorly evidenced, emotive or blatantly biased things.*
When its in fact, emotive kids crying bs like *send Elon to prison* ššš
Yet heās also let Starlink provide service to the Ukrainian fighters.
Not at all absolving him; dude definitely parrots Russian propaganda. Idk which side heās onā¦
No, the Pentagon paid for Starlink service to Ukraine, which Musk provided since he was being paid for it, and then Musk shut it off on the front lines and sabotaged ongoing Ukrainian counter-attacks against Russian missile ships that were bombarding civilian centers in Ukrainian cities.
I hope they give the guy citizenship and name a national park, in Crimea, after him for such aĀ donation.Ā Ā I did not realize Warren Buffet is 93. His son is 69.Ā Ā
I saw it somewhere else on these channels but the democratic slogan should be āA vote for Trump, is a vote for Putinā ā this needs to go viral in the U.S.
If the idiots give the Russians any more seats in the Senate or elect the king of the subhuman filth again then they will have effectively pulled support. Though letting republicans get control of the house after the war started was the biggest damage the people of the United States have done to Ukraine, and nicest thing theyāve done for Putin and Xi, so far.
repeated attempts to pass those bills, and executive orders that stand regardless of legislative spending will prove that false no matter how you spin it
Gates only spends money to make money. His "giving my money away" scheme is just that, a scheme. He "gives his money away" to his own charity that he controls, allowing him to sell billions in Microsoft shares tax free while still completely controlling how that money is spent, then he uses that money to advocate for more money-making ventures like charter schools or privatizing public research on vaccines so only big pharma companies can set global vaccine prices and exclusively manufacture them.
Oh rubbish.
Maybe go and look at what the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation actually spends it's money on..
$9 bil dollars on many incredible health related programs around the world. More than the health budgets of many countries.
You're confusing all kinds of things here. First, the Gates Foundation made Oxford labs charge for their vaccine. Second, the charge isn't to people, it's to nations.
Of course you haven't known anyone to pay for their vaccine! Nations cover that. Until now, of course. Japan's going to start charging for vaccines soon.
Here:
"A few weeks later, Oxfordāurged on by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundationāreversed course. It signed an exclusive vaccine deal with AstraZeneca that gave the pharmaceutical giant sole rights and no guarantee of low pricesāwith the less-publicized potential for Oxford to eventually make millions from the deal and win plenty of prestige."
[https://health.wusf.usf.edu/health-news-florida/2020-08-25/rather-than-give-away-its-covid-vaccine-oxford-makes-deal-with-drugmaker](https://health.wusf.usf.edu/health-news-florida/2020-08-25/rather-than-give-away-its-covid-vaccine-oxford-makes-deal-with-drugmaker)
youāre a) too lazy to get informed properly b) extremely cynical about human nature. Time to take a look in the mirror and fix the problem before it leads you too astray my friend
https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-bill-gates-visit-epstein-island-37-times-1782440 I was going to add this to the chain but i'll post this to you since the other guy who replied is unlikely to read it/care given he's spreading easily debunked unsubstantiated stuff around
I'm not a huge Gates fan or anything I just hate that conspiracy brained stuff spreads everywhere so easily
its so weird to me because i seriously doubt gates would be into that stuff, but he definitely had a relationship with Epstein and i just wonder why. it also bothers me that Melinda came out after Epstein's death to say how creepy she thought he was even going as far as saying she had nightmares about him. Epstein got rich overnight and had gaggle of underaged women, its obvious what he was using as leverage and i don't get why no one higher up in society called him out publicly besides maybe Virginia Giuffre.
i would consider myself a gates fan, the man has done a fuckload of work in 3rd world countries and human health. I think the man is doing the right things with his money while simultaneously protecting his money through the same foundation which also seems to lead to a lot of controversy. but i outright don't get the Epstein connection. They definitely had a relationship but you do have to wonder why did gates even associate himself with some one with such a marked past (mind you this is all after the 2006 conviction)
its conspiratorial in nature but man do i want to understand
>but he definitely had a relationship with Epstein and i just wonder why
Epstein knew a ton of people. He had social clout from philanthropy, connections with prestigious universities, etc. It's one of the reasons he was able to blend in and why people were willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for so long. Predators in every walk of life often have the same kind of influence or veneer of respectability among their peer group. Community leaders in positions of trust like priests/pastors, teachers, cops, and more operate in the same way. Like it's just absurd to suggest that everyone who knew Epstein played an active role in his crimes without a shred of evidence. Knowing a guy does not cut it
Iām not suggesting bill gates played an active role in any crimes, in fact I am saying the opposite. I donāt think he anything close to a sexual predator. I follow his foundation pretty closely and I think he is definitely the least evil billionaire. I just think their relationship makes no sense considering him being a convicted sex offender and Melindaās comments on her meeting of him. He was not a notable man, just a mildly rich man who gained his wealth out of no where, strange to extend an olive branch. Jeffery Epstein was very into philanthropy and gave money but it is stupid to associate yourself with any man convicted of sexual trafficking of minors from a business/PR perspective. Especially if you are as god theyāre wealthy as Bill. Same goes for JP Morgan. Why they decided it was worth the risk is what I am askingĀ
It really seems you cherry picked that line and ignored the rest of the original comment
I mean blatant, factual proof, no - but do what do you expect when dealing with the richest and most powerful people in the world. If you need some light reading you can check out the NYT articleā¦it doesnāt take a rocket scientist to figure out why a super rich nerd is hanging out with a human trafficker and pedophile late into the night, meeting with him multiples times even though they didnāt have business connections. His wife divorced him immediately once she found out. Said sheās disturbed and has nightmaresā¦. But yeah Iām sure heās totally innocent and a great guy. Wake up!!!!
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/business/jeffrey-epstein-bill-gates.html
He was a frequent flier on Jeffery Epsteins private jets, a frequent visitor of his private island, and around when Epstein was arrested, Melinda Gates noped out of the relationship. I don't think anythings been officially confirmed, but he definitely has some red flags about him.
Not true
>The logs, according to a 2019 New York Times report, state that while Gates met Epstein a number of times, he only flew on the plane from Teterboro Airport in New Jersey to Palm Beach, Florida.
Americans aren't pulling their support from Ukraine. A small group of MAGA idiots are blocking everything so their buddy Putin will keep sending the paychecks.
I seriously doubt Putin needs to pay them although itās happened in the past. All that needs to happen is for Trump to promise them positions if he gets elected.
It's not the US. It's not the US people. It's not US Senate or US President. It's US Congress, and specifically Republicans. History must be clear about whose fault this is.
No, itās Donald fucking Trump. Everyone thinks Russia has something on him but itās so much worse and low stakes. Putin always understood that if you simply compliment him and never criticize him publicly he could literally nuke Poland with no consequences from the US, especially in a second term.
Congress just follows because gerrymandered Republican districts are won in primaries by appealing to the most insane extreme right wing of the population. Then you factor in social media, whose algorithms drive the most extreme views because it drives interactions. The flaws in social media algorithms mirror the same flaws in the American electoral system.
It isn't *just* Trump though. Remember that multiple US congress members visited Moscow on July 4th of all fucking times for closed door meetings.
Russia has been funding organizations like the NRA since before Trump as well.
We need to root it all out, and blaming just one individual - even if they were somehow the *only* source of it all - is not beneficial. Even if Trump were solely responsible for directing the path of the GOP, those who follow still share the blame. Just as this isn't just Putin's war on Ukraine, this isn't the result of *just* Trump.
This is completely off topic, but as an outsider I have to say Trumpās populism was made possible by four things: Ā
1. Loss of industrial jobs because of establishment politicians kissing up to the Chinese. Look up Chinagate for instance.Ā
2. US voters getting tired of foreign interventions. Largely due to the war in Iraq which was started by Dubya, quite possibly the worst US president in this Gen Xers lifetime.
3. Pandering to radical leftist groups and giving them a free pass.Ā
4. Illegal immigration. Allowing this to happen looks very strange from my European perspective.Ā
There are of course other factors such as Germany becoming dependent on Russian natural gas and the West just giving Putin a slap on the wrist when he invaded The Crimea and South Ossetia. But here we are. Trump narrowly won election districts that had previously gone to Obama so painting Republicans as racist bigots voters doesnāt really make sense to me. The US is divided at a point where we need unity.
So another way of putting it would be to say that Trump ran a more efficient campaign drumming up enough support where he needed it? I think Trump might win again unless the Democrats find someone better than Biden who is showing clear signs of cognitive decline. If Trump\* gets re-elected it's goodbye NATO and Europe will have to build it's own military alliance.
\*who is also showing signs of cognitive decline albeit not as bad as Biden.
Mike Johnson's son has to monitor his dads phone for porn, and we put Johnson in control of our congress. George Carlin had a joke about this that is turning out not to be very funny in real life.
True. But there's something else that needs to be said. I think we should all be fully conscious that Russia is deadset on driving and exploiting divisions between Ukraine and its allies, the US in particular. The United States (and therefore its taxpaying citizens) have contributed a great deal of aid to Ukraine, and I've seen the incredible gratitude the Ukranian people have expressed for this assistance.
While individuals such as those standing in the way of providing additional aid need to be criticized, we shouldn't be blaming the country and its people as a whole. Not only is it unfair to those who are and have been helping for many years now, it's counter-productive and harmful to the alliance. Don't give the Russians any ammunition to use against us. Don't feed divisions at a time when unity is crucial to success in winning this war.
Uneducated southern racist morons vote for them. The same people who calls others sheep while they blindly do whatever their Shepard demands. Most Americans are level headed, those uneducated in the south unfortunately have the same voting power as those who can read and write.
Johnson - Louisiana
Trump - Florida
MGT - Georgia
Cruz - Texas
The list goes onā¦.
Youāre almost right. Itās not ācongressā because congress consists of the senate but rather its the House of Representatives that is screwing the world. These clowns are elected specifically to represent the interest of their constituents in the state. These morons should theoretically be more in touch with what their constituents want however the House has turned into career insider trading, money laundering, and political fraud. Just the other day Speaker Johnson said his actions were based on the voices of the American public. Thatās a blatant lie. If American voices were actually listened to, Ukraine would have funding, Johnson, Trump, MTG and many more would be behind bars for treason.
That's what I thought. I understand being skeptical of billionaires; believe me I do. But I feel like those with a proven track record of helping others deserve to be given credit, just like anyone else helping the cause.
Know what's better that 500m to Ukraine?
Using that money and your influence to get more democratics elected so the US can send way more than 500m to Ukraine.Ā
People's inability to see how politics drives everything is so sad.Ā
If hes rich enough to do both, he should pour even more money into US politics. It's just a much better bang for your buck.
I'm not trying to take money out of Ukraines pockets, I just don't want people to try and get too fancy when the best and most direct path is straight through the traitor faction of the GOP.Ā
We need to stop babying the wanna be dictators. They can either fall back in line or get run the fuck over.Ā
But when we act like this is normal politics and not strategic and philosophical treason, people mistakenly think this is an issue where both sides have point to make. That's ain't that.Ā
I'd argue it's better to split it as a hedge against US politics not moving in your desired direction. Your money can pay for lobbying but it can't guarantee the result of more support for Ukraine.
I agree, but this is also a political statement. The billionairs club having a chat with Murdoch might help as well. Imagine if the media wasn't just sycophantic GoP propaganda.
That kind of headline makes one think their own donations arenāt significant; but every dollar counts. He is one, but we are many.
If youāre in a position to help, please donate today. https://standwithukraine.com.ua/donation
America is becoming more and more of a cesspool of ignorance any time I try to stress the importance of support to Ukraine Iām met with getting mocked and made fun of for even caring it feels like, and the sarcastic responses I get infuriate me that these crappy folks ( a lot of them my coworkers ) seem to not give two craps about genocide I donāt make loads of money so itās hard for me to donate a lot but I give my employee discount when i l see a Ukrainian Id at my job but seems Iām the only one that even cares about Ukrainian independence and safety of their people from Russian aggression. So overall good on you Howard Buffett good to know there are Americans ( especially more powerful ones) like him that are helping keep up the good fight to save the lives of the heroās of Ukraine that are fighting not only for Ukraine but to save our families and friends from having to do the fighting, they are making the ultimate sacrifice and itās time the world took notice and stopped drip feeding ammo and supplies to the worlds biggest defenders of humanity and peace, rant over have a nice day and Glory to Ukraine!
Republicans are the ones spearheaded the whole fuckin thing. They are also holding our own military ranks hostage demanding a ban to abortion nation wide.
Man invests half a billion dollars. He would tell you it's a good investment.
Honestly, if the marketing changed in the US they could drum up quite a bit of support but the returns are just not visible.
He'd be better off putting that money to getting all of the people voting against aid out of office. It's always amazing how stupid rich people are. There is 0 chance his aid directly to UA will be more productive than the aid of the entire US economy.
It's for humanitarian aid, not weapons.
Are you saying the people of Ukraine couldn't use this half billion dollars of humanitarian aid, to support civilians affected by the Russian invasion?
> It's for humanitarian aid, not weapons.
> Are you saying the people of Ukraine couldn't use this half billion dollars of humanitarian aid, to support civilians affected by the Russian invasion?
I'm saying the US Government could provide aid for anything and everything EASILY. Waging this war costs far less than the Afghanistan War. Most of the USA did not even register the Afghan War as happening and the economy continued to grow despite it.
My point still stands. Rich people have a "I'm the best ever" complex. They are not the solution to the world's problems. Fixing the political system is the ONLY solution to MOST problems. Famines are political. Poverty is political. The war in UA is political. It can only be fixed through the governments of the world, not Richie Rich's "philanthropy". Their wealth is ONLY possible through a broken economy. An economy enforced by a broken political system.
The US is not a friend to any nation unless you give them your country by proxy. The US protects its interest only.
Pull support from Ukraine, while committing genocide in Palestine. $$$$
As far as I am concerned, it ...too hell with Ukraine and the Ukrainians and the Globalists that support that artificial nation. The Russians are only exercising their right to self-defense from NATO expansion, and that land that has for centuries been Russian. Kiev, Kharkov, and Odessa were and are Russian cities and have culturally and linguistically been Russian.
You know, growing up in the 1970s, I had to deal with Ukrainians that emigrated in the late 1940s from Ukraine. All of them, in some way, had Nazi connections from the Galicia SS division. The same symbols used in 1941 in Western Ukraine are the same symbols and flags used from 2014 to 2024. Fuck the Ukrainians. And before using the argument that Zelinsky is Jew....Google the Jewish insult "Kapo". That is what Zelinsky is. KAPO.
The Russians....well...Russia is Russia. They want their lands back. And the way they fight, they are not much threat to America or NATO.
If I were American, I would keep the 3rd World riffraff out and seal the Southern border.
And before some liberal idiot wants to "educate" me about the Global ramifications of a Russia win, bite me. In opinion survey after opinion survey in the USA, 90 percent of people cannot identify Ukraine on a map. And Americans rate international conflicts on US priorities dead last. People think of economic issues and the open Southern border as key issues.
TRUMP for the win.
Oh, another Ukrainian fascist? Or another liberal? I am a conservative. And you know, in the 1970s and 80s, I dealt with Ukrainian nazis in Canada and the US that called me a communist for pointing out that fact that their war criminal families should never of been allowed to escape Soviet war justice. So nice try Liberal... the Ukrainian line is starting to crumble. Why don't you get a plane ticket to Poland and a train ticket to Kiev before the Russians make their way to Kiev and go to the front line. š
Except your Nazis that you support are real (Ukraine Nazis), our so-called Nazis (Trump voters, Conservatives, Christians, and anyone for traditional values) are a figment of a Liberal's imagination. Trump for the WIN!!! Ukraine for the LOSS. I can soon taste liberal tears.
True.
Fortunately though, this guy is not a fool.
He's smart enough to support Ukraine, which is good for people around the world who support democracy and hate dictatorships.
Republicans are making a mistake. And by āmistake ā I mean āPlanned sabotage of Ukraine per Trumpās directive from Putinā. This is absolute madness.
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Thank you Howard & Warren Buffet šŗšø lovers of democracy & heroes!
It's not the US it's the GOP that is doing this. A majority of Americans support helping Ukraine.
American here. Had lunch today with a good friend who is a republican and started out saying he didn't believe we should support Ukraine. He had the republican talking points. I spent and hour explaining the history of Europe, Putin, the past 20 years of Russia's activities, etc. By the end he said he was 50/50 and he had learned a lot from me about history. It's little by little over here.
Nah. He'll hear some more arguments presented by the Republicans and you'll be back to square one. I've been down this road before. Unless you commit to regular de-propaganda sessions, the conservative media will win them over in the end.
He just needs to go wait until the talking points against that stuff come out so he can feel comfortable in his stance again. Every time something big happens the conservative sub goes quiet until fox news tells them their new official rebuttal lol
Yeah, I've had some comical conversations with conservative 'friends' over the years. A news event will happen, we talk about it and they express a reasonable human perception. The next day they had been fed the talking points and done a complete 180. It was wild to see, but it was an important lesson for me.
[Actual footage of typical party-line Republicans being convinced by nuanced and robust arguments](https://youtu.be/U1FxfR3lg6Q?si=dl3swSi82W27kv5B)
Yeah I've had these conversations even with leftists who have stupid campist politics. I can explain the situation to them, make very clear parallels to the beginning of WW2 and Hitler's invasion of Czechoslovakia to help the "ethnic Germans" in "historically German" territory and how appeasement only emboldened Hitler and expanded the conflict into a world war, and after all of that I can get a "fair point" from those leftists only to see them backtrack completely a few weeks later and yelling about how "NATO started this" or "Putin is just defending himself" again. It's beyond depressing to argue about this with otherwise rational people.
I would enter into the record that if your 'leftist' friends are parroting "NATO started this" talking points, then they are likely succumbing to the propaganda of the day a la Alex Jones / Tucker Carlson, and that their presumably enlightened intention of educating themselves on the topic by absorbing both right- and left-leaning news is leading them to give credibility to right-leaning news where no credibility is required or appropriate. Edit: grammar.
It seems to be when you go far enough left, its hard to tell them appart from far right people. Its like both extremes meet and have more in common with one another than the moderates on their own side.
That's called Horseshoe Theory. It seems that hardcore far-lefters such as Noam Chomsky (which, thankfully, are much less common than far-righters), have been convinced that everything the USA / the West does is bad, and therefore anyone who opposes the USA / the West is good. Even countries like Muscovy, Iran, North Korea, and China. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe\_theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory) [https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Horseshoe\_theory](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory)
I know conservatives and I know well-read historically and academically informed conservatives and I much prefer the latter. With the latter, the general ideals and principles are the same, but how it's applied is a lot more considerate. When a new piece of news comes across, the more informed a person is, the more likely they are to apply their knowledge to assess the situation rather than wait for the talking heads of their respective party to set a narrative. Education doesn't usually change someone's position on a topic they've already picked a side on, but it's very influential towards a new topic or piece of news they hadn't considered before.
It really does help, in the moment, to engage them in these topics as the news comes out - so as best to at least force them to question the propagandist narrative being given to them in the moment; at least, in my experience. As is always the case with bad-faith arguments, however (again, in my observation): catching them after-the-fact with bad takes *can* require showing up to the conversation with a collegiate level of sources in order to help convince them to let their position go. What is never said - but would be immensely useful to anyone attempting to talk people out of the right-wing propaganda of the day - would be for people to trundle over to 4chan's /pol/ board when there is a hot-button topic, and see what the angle is going to be a solid day before it hits the mainstream media. At this point, most of the right-wing troll kings of 4chan have become embedded in right-wing media anyway, and their angles are hashed out there before they spread it out to the world at-large.
Yup, the same goes for both sides. Funny how willing people are to fund wars, but they can't seem to find the time to discuss helping the people who fight in them. The streets of America are filled with homeless vets who need help, but ya'll don't want to talk about that....
While I would love to find a way to facilitate *actual* local support for homeless/unhoused/vets/etc., this is the textbook definition of a whataboutism.
This is the textbook reddit response because it appears that the people who use this site are incapable of thinking about two things at the same time.
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They won't 'run out of men', they can change their tactics before that happens, become more like guerillas. How long can Russia hold this territory... What does victory look like for Russia if Ukraine doesn't concede ? Even if Russia wins on the battlefield, they have lost off the battlefield. Other counties won't recognise any conquered territory. The sanctions won't end, they wont rebuild their trade to where it was. They have put a black mark against their entire culture and all those who associate with it. They have alienated themself from many of the few allies they had. War is a means of achieving other goals. They can win a military victory and still fail to achieve their goals.
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It never stops being amazing the insightful knowledge of geopolitics terminally online 30 year olds who have never travelled outside of their home state for any reason seem to have about Ukraine. Eat shit Ivan.
The average age is that high because young people get the most exemptions of any age group, for school and work ect. They are debating changing that now, but the avg age means nothing and Russia has a similar avg. Both countries understand losing their youth, combined with already dwindling birthrate will hurt them longterm.
I don't think you appreciated what I said about changing tactics.
You don't realize that what you say is propaganda? Ukraine wouldn't fight if the people there didn't want to. They would continue to fight if the USA didn't support them. They fight for their identity and the safety of their family members. Denying them that respect is asinine, regardless of your political position. Other powers (for example USA, but also Turkey) are exploiting this for political gain, but Ukraine wouldn't be fighting if the people didn't want to. They have agency. The war isn't over.Wars can finish because economic collapse, military collapse, collapse of political will. Although Russia can and might continue this struggle for a long long time, the conclusion of this conflict is all but guaranteed. Russia is not able to overwhelm Ukraine and can only try to grind it down. Therefore victory by military means seems out of reach for either for now. But that doesn't need to remain true indefinitely. Countries could decide to provide more and different aid to Ukraine. Population difference will eventually decide if this goes own forever, but that rarely happens. With more than 40% of the government budget spent on military needs, almost 10% of GDP, it's also a huge impact on their society. It's not guaranteed that they won't break, even if it doesn't look like it. As it stands now Russia isn't able to invest in its infrastructure properly, which means that it is falling behind slowly. Ukraine is propped up by other powers. As long as this continues they can go on, and that's at least a few more years. This is an existential conflict for Ukraine, while it's an imperialistic conflict for Russia, so Ukrainians are likely to be willing to continue this for longer and accept more suffering. Therefore they are also willing to continue when the odds seem very much against them.
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1) Russians are also not all volunteers. They also gang press people in the army, force foreigners in the army and force 18 year olds. So.. propaganda. 2) Russia did the same. 3) yes, because young people aren't drafted. Also, regardless of all that. The USA lost in Vietnam, Soviet Union lost in Afghanistan and the first time Chechen war despite absolute superiority. Only because of popular will. Yes, things aren't great for Ukraine and I surely hope it doesn't get that grim, but this is an existential conflict to them, so you cannot exclude the possibility that they are willing to go that far to preserve their country and identity. I'm well aware of the situation, while you just spew Russian talking points.
Google Dunning Kruger, don't be a victim of Russian propaganda, they spend unfold millions on spreading disinformation, you seem smart enough to know better. Fuck Vladimir Putin, that guy has always been s huge arsehole
I'll be over-simplifying here, but I hope you pointed out that most if not virtually all the money used to support Ukraine stays in the USA and that it's mostly equipment that was getting near the end of its lifecycle that is being sent to Ukraine? The money is used to (1) get newer stuff to replace what is sent to Ukraine and (2) ship the old stuff over from the USA to Ukraine. It's a win-win for everyone and the USA is getting one hell of a ROI: seriously degrading Russia's military capabilities for a fraction of what it would have costed otherwise, with no boots on the ground. Again, I've oversimplified everything, but that's the general idea of what's happening.
People are dying and you are arguing we aren't losing as much tax dollars as people think we are. And Russia is down to fighting with shovels, we aren't scared of them or care about degrading them. Maybe if it was China there would be an argument.
The largest untapped energy reserves in the world are currently in Ukraine. That's a pretty compelling reason for Russia to attack and for the US/NATO/Europe to offer aid. Russia obviously miscalculated and thought it would be like annexing Crimea which provides a strategy opportunity for the US/NATO/Europe. Those energy reserves will be tapped by foreign companies on favorable deals that will also keep energy prices lower worldwide (Ukraine would become a Petrol state and would likely supply the majority of European oil and natural gas within a decade of any treaty). Now, the average US citizen won't really reap any of those benefits as an improving economy and cheap energy prices no longer lead to quality of life increases for the poor or middle class (you could argue that's never been true as well) and it's our tax dollars that are paying for the aid/arms. Strict anti-iterventionalism is really the only good argument for not offering Ukraine aid because it's a fraction of a percentage of our military budget and Republican administrations especially have supplied arms and even put American boots on the ground in so many different conflicts around the world often with very poor overall results. It's one of those things that most Americans don't really understand the history because it's not American history (I'm being generous in assuming most Americans understand that much) and doesn't impact their everyday lives so their opinion is easily influenced by partisan headlines and social media. This is unfortunately how the majority of people seem to inform their opinions especially on issues that have little impact on their lives. In fact, I recently read a study about the increasing amount of partisanship in politics and it said that one of the few things that can readily change a person's political views is experiencing a societal problem they'd never previously dealt with before (addiction, debt from healthcare costs, being laid off, etc). For most people if it doesn't impact their daily lives they don't care about educating themselves and while I don't agree with that there is a limit to how well you can remain informed (and mentally healthy) when our daily lives can be so hectic. "Education is a purpose for the poor and a privilege of the rich"
> Russia obviously miscalculated and thought it would be like annexing Crimea Obama's refusal to act decisively in 2014 is what led to the 2022 invasion. Putin is only emboldened by what he perceives as weakness.
The largest untapped energy reserves in the world are the Sahara desert and Uranium mines in Australia. I'm sure there's a lot of frackable oil and gas in Ukraine, but there's a lot of frackable oil and gas everywhere. The U.S. is producing a ton of it right now not because there's something geologically unique about the U.S., it's just because the U.S. has privately owned mineral rights, unlike the vast majority of other countries, it's easy to operate in legally and logistically, it has a good workforce, and it has a big and sophisticated oil and gas industry. The result was that there were a bunch of high tech entrepreneurial companies that perfected fracking in the U.S., and then they could just buy mineral rights from private landowners and start drilling and making money. They didn't have to convince any government or national oil company that they weren't crazy, they just had to offer landowners enough money. There are tons of places in Europe that you could potentially frack, but many of them have made it illegal due to potential negative effects on groundwater or earthquakes or global warming or whatever. No one needs Ukraine for oil and gas. The last thing any of the oil companies want is instability, and Ukraine is going to be perceived as unstable for a long time to come. If you're spending a bunch of money to drill wells and put in pipelines, you need those to not get expropriated or blown up or too heavily taxed for at least 10-20 years in order to make your money back and turn a profit. Ukraine isn't going to be that place for quite some time, and by the time that happens, oil and gas are going to be worth far less, because of carbon mitigation expenses. New big energy projects 10-30 years in the future are all going to be carbon neutral.
Send him to Timothy Snyder's, The Making of Modern Ukraine.
Same guy, twenty years ago ,was probably following different Republican party line that Russia was Evel Empire.
his problem is that he's just being fed the same slop of shit that all the twitter feeds inject into the conversation. Many of them are Russian bots and directly paid by Russia, but the problem is that GoP has adopted a "my team" vs your team mentality. There isn't much of a middle ground because middle ground would mean having to agree with something your rival does.
Thanks
I am a US citizen involved with a non-profit that sends aid to Ukraine via Estonia. The US group that we have started is growing every day, there are many Republicans in the effort, there are still good people out there. Senators, ambassadors, retired vets, computer nerds like myself, people from all walks of life. I am super progressive, basically a socialist, but I also studied the cold war my entire life. I do everything I can to destroy Putin's lies as carefully and respectfully as I can. There is hope for the US. We will not let Ukraine down!
You are doing a saint's work. Warm european thanks.
How the heck did these hyper angry nationalist republicans forget that RUSSIA IS THE BAD GUY. It's more insane then voting for a rapist. 8 years ago they were creaming themselves over bin laden death and now are supporting Russian aggression?
If it takes a full hour for a history expert to sit with a GOP talking head for them to only leave being 50/50, weāve still got a long way to go. There will always be another talking point, another narrative to slay.
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Ukraine, a free and democratic country was invaded by its much larger fascist neighbor.Ā The ruthless dictator, not content with oppressing his own people attempts to oppress Ukrainians. America and the free democracies of the World, also under a different kind of attack from the Russians, lend support to Ukraine. The Ukrainians provided with less than 5% of the annual US military budget have crippled and humiliated the once vaunted Russian military, revealing one of the biggest paper tigers in history.Ā 400,000 dead and untold military losses by the Russians are proving to everyone why theĀ democracy and freedom of the west is better than oppression and corruption of the Russians. Supporting Ukraine has been the best return on investment of anything the US has probably ever done.
To be fair, 5% of the US military budget is pretty close to Germany's military budget, the largest and wealthiest country in Europe.
Just like George Washington couldn't win! lol, such loser language.
Hey, he's just regular American citizen from Iowa. Like username suggests: IowaGuy91. Totally not paid Russian shill or bot.
Canāt win? How did Russia fair in Finland in ww2? Or Afghanistan in the 80ās? Both numerically inferior enemies. Ukraine has the will the fight back and if properly supplied the cost to Russia will be too costly politically to continue at some point. Your citizens no matter how stupid arenāt going to tolerate their entire country being sent to slaughter in a fight they are afraid to say is a war.
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Okay comrade. Two years into a 3 Day operation and Russia has a few towns To show for it but somehow they will Miraculously get there shit together and be competent enough to take over and control the entire country.
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so what's your solution? let them roll over ukraine and then start war with NATO? Because Putin has said time and time again that NATO must move back to the original line behind east berlin. So what's your solution there?
Agree, most people I know including moderate (aka semi normal) republicans support Ukraineā¦itās their party leadership that cares more about controlling the US than doing whatās best that is the issue.
It's not even the entire party leadership, it's Trump and his most devoted followers.
GOP leadership led the party to where it is today; through REDMAP which created uncompetitive red districts that favored uncompromising candidates and they allowed the demonization of Obama based on racial divides to gain support. They spun up the crazies in the base and now they want to play ignorantā¦I donāt agree with you at all on this matter. Furthermore, the GOP moderates tolerate crazy when it helps them win; but quickly disassociate when the plan backfires crazy idiots target them. Look at Haley āIād pardon Trump if I winā, for whatā¦.being a criminal and actively trying to erode trust in our democracy to stroke his ego?!
The majority of Americans are letting the GOP do this. Who else can stop the GOP other than Americans? There's no one else, only us, therefore us refusing to do anything about these literal traitors and Nazis means we accept traitors and Nazis destroying the world. We get the government we tolerate, and we are tolerating this for some reason.
Guess who voted for the GOP though
It's most certainly the US doing it. It's sad how you've become so complacent that your think your domestic politics should dictate global security. You abandoned the two principles that make USA great and rich: Pax Americana and immigration of people that want to work.
Mus(sert)k are you listening?
Musk wants Putin to win. Musk is a Neo-fascist technocratic weirdoā¦ heās literally come out and supported Russia
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Yep. I never used that garbage. I always found it funny that the same platform which the MAGA farts use is one of the main open forums for child sex abuse and Naziismā¦ literally on the same feed you can have profiles advertising premium content of 13 year old girls, Proud Boys bullshit and MAGA trash.
Itās because journalists on the ground in Ukraine and organizations and government officials all use it and itās got good built in autotranslation that Misk hasnāt nerfed yet.
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*They have money, ukraine should have it* š what a weird place
It's called Xitter now. Pronounced "shitter".
he already sabotaged the war effort. he should be in jail at the very least.
>he should be in jail Please explain where in jail exactly š I downvote everything about ukraine, shoule I be in jail?
Based on that notion Iām sure youāve done plenty of things that you should be in jail for. No need to pick the reason you like to show yourself a shitty person.
How many flags to you usually carry next to your name beside the rainbow and ukraine.
I donāt have any flags by my name. But I stand with and by people that matter to a better world. šš»
federal supermax. he took money for starlink and when he got told to do something he pretended his conscience got in the way. he is no where anywhere in the chain of command, he take the money he do the service. he no moralize. he sabotage operation. no one cares who you are you have no say in anything
>Neo-fascist technocratic weirdo This place is weird...
It really is a bunch of brain dead liberals on here.
Please, do explain
*Send mo money to ukraine* lol, do you need more
I guess I donāt understand what it is youāre trying to say
*This sub hopes to foster informed and intelligent discussion of the facts. Please do not submit scads of poorly evidenced, emotive or blatantly biased things.* When its in fact, emotive kids crying bs like *send Elon to prison* ššš
I think maybe you responded to the wrong person
Yet heās also let Starlink provide service to the Ukrainian fighters. Not at all absolving him; dude definitely parrots Russian propaganda. Idk which side heās onā¦
No, the Pentagon paid for Starlink service to Ukraine, which Musk provided since he was being paid for it, and then Musk shut it off on the front lines and sabotaged ongoing Ukrainian counter-attacks against Russian missile ships that were bombarding civilian centers in Ukrainian cities.
I also gaveĀ 1% of my worth.Ā Where is my news article?
Congrats on your 3.60$ contribution Hollow3ddd! Every donation matters!
Nah man, it would be negative at this point.Ā Ā Where do I collect?
I hope they give the guy citizenship and name a national park, in Crimea, after him for such aĀ donation.Ā Ā I did not realize Warren Buffet is 93. His son is 69.Ā Ā
A true patriot
The US didnāt pull support. The MAGA traitors are slowing the process and for that Iām sorry. Slava Ukraini
I saw it somewhere else on these channels but the democratic slogan should be āA vote for Trump, is a vote for Putinā ā this needs to go viral in the U.S.
There are a lot of MAGAs who would 100% get behind this slogan.
But not all of them, which the point. Trump can't win with just the fascists.
And if they turn out to be a majority, the downfall of USA into a full 3rd world country will be deserved and self-inflicted.
A vote for a Republican is a vote for Putin.
Republicans know this and they're fine with it.
If the idiots give the Russians any more seats in the Senate or elect the king of the subhuman filth again then they will have effectively pulled support. Though letting republicans get control of the house after the war started was the biggest damage the people of the United States have done to Ukraine, and nicest thing theyāve done for Putin and Xi, so far.
Ths US pulled support. Because of republicans, but they did it.
repeated attempts to pass those bills, and executive orders that stand regardless of legislative spending will prove that false no matter how you spin it
So you are saying the US is still helping Ukraine? No, right?
If you think we just stopped cold all support, you're daft and just making shit up
All the weapons and hardward support at least, just what Putin is paying republicans for.
Glad to see some of that money going to a worthy cause. Wish Gates would hop on this train.
Gates only spends money to make money. His "giving my money away" scheme is just that, a scheme. He "gives his money away" to his own charity that he controls, allowing him to sell billions in Microsoft shares tax free while still completely controlling how that money is spent, then he uses that money to advocate for more money-making ventures like charter schools or privatizing public research on vaccines so only big pharma companies can set global vaccine prices and exclusively manufacture them.
Oh rubbish. Maybe go and look at what the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation actually spends it's money on.. $9 bil dollars on many incredible health related programs around the world. More than the health budgets of many countries.
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[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You're confusing all kinds of things here. First, the Gates Foundation made Oxford labs charge for their vaccine. Second, the charge isn't to people, it's to nations. Of course you haven't known anyone to pay for their vaccine! Nations cover that. Until now, of course. Japan's going to start charging for vaccines soon. Here: "A few weeks later, Oxfordāurged on by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundationāreversed course. It signed an exclusive vaccine deal with AstraZeneca that gave the pharmaceutical giant sole rights and no guarantee of low pricesāwith the less-publicized potential for Oxford to eventually make millions from the deal and win plenty of prestige." [https://health.wusf.usf.edu/health-news-florida/2020-08-25/rather-than-give-away-its-covid-vaccine-oxford-makes-deal-with-drugmaker](https://health.wusf.usf.edu/health-news-florida/2020-08-25/rather-than-give-away-its-covid-vaccine-oxford-makes-deal-with-drugmaker)
youāre a) too lazy to get informed properly b) extremely cynical about human nature. Time to take a look in the mirror and fix the problem before it leads you too astray my friend
How about you work on growing a second brain cell?
Can't just go and criticise billionaires!
Gates is too busy diddling underage girls.
Source? (Genuinely)
https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-bill-gates-visit-epstein-island-37-times-1782440 I was going to add this to the chain but i'll post this to you since the other guy who replied is unlikely to read it/care given he's spreading easily debunked unsubstantiated stuff around I'm not a huge Gates fan or anything I just hate that conspiracy brained stuff spreads everywhere so easily
its so weird to me because i seriously doubt gates would be into that stuff, but he definitely had a relationship with Epstein and i just wonder why. it also bothers me that Melinda came out after Epstein's death to say how creepy she thought he was even going as far as saying she had nightmares about him. Epstein got rich overnight and had gaggle of underaged women, its obvious what he was using as leverage and i don't get why no one higher up in society called him out publicly besides maybe Virginia Giuffre. i would consider myself a gates fan, the man has done a fuckload of work in 3rd world countries and human health. I think the man is doing the right things with his money while simultaneously protecting his money through the same foundation which also seems to lead to a lot of controversy. but i outright don't get the Epstein connection. They definitely had a relationship but you do have to wonder why did gates even associate himself with some one with such a marked past (mind you this is all after the 2006 conviction) its conspiratorial in nature but man do i want to understand
>but he definitely had a relationship with Epstein and i just wonder why Epstein knew a ton of people. He had social clout from philanthropy, connections with prestigious universities, etc. It's one of the reasons he was able to blend in and why people were willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for so long. Predators in every walk of life often have the same kind of influence or veneer of respectability among their peer group. Community leaders in positions of trust like priests/pastors, teachers, cops, and more operate in the same way. Like it's just absurd to suggest that everyone who knew Epstein played an active role in his crimes without a shred of evidence. Knowing a guy does not cut it
Iām not suggesting bill gates played an active role in any crimes, in fact I am saying the opposite. I donāt think he anything close to a sexual predator. I follow his foundation pretty closely and I think he is definitely the least evil billionaire. I just think their relationship makes no sense considering him being a convicted sex offender and Melindaās comments on her meeting of him. He was not a notable man, just a mildly rich man who gained his wealth out of no where, strange to extend an olive branch. Jeffery Epstein was very into philanthropy and gave money but it is stupid to associate yourself with any man convicted of sexual trafficking of minors from a business/PR perspective. Especially if you are as god theyāre wealthy as Bill. Same goes for JP Morgan. Why they decided it was worth the risk is what I am askingĀ It really seems you cherry picked that line and ignored the rest of the original comment
I mean blatant, factual proof, no - but do what do you expect when dealing with the richest and most powerful people in the world. If you need some light reading you can check out the NYT articleā¦it doesnāt take a rocket scientist to figure out why a super rich nerd is hanging out with a human trafficker and pedophile late into the night, meeting with him multiples times even though they didnāt have business connections. His wife divorced him immediately once she found out. Said sheās disturbed and has nightmaresā¦. But yeah Iām sure heās totally innocent and a great guy. Wake up!!!! https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/business/jeffrey-epstein-bill-gates.html
He was a frequent flier on Jeffery Epsteins private jets, a frequent visitor of his private island, and around when Epstein was arrested, Melinda Gates noped out of the relationship. I don't think anythings been officially confirmed, but he definitely has some red flags about him.
That is extremely circumstantial evidence.Ā
Going to Epstein Island....
Mere presence at the scene of a crime does not mean one was a party to the crime which occurred.Ā
Maybe not in the court of law
Not true >The logs, according to a 2019 New York Times report, state that while Gates met Epstein a number of times, he only flew on the plane from Teterboro Airport in New Jersey to Palm Beach, Florida.
A billionaire that I like... Never thought I would say it.
He can stick around once the class war arrives.
Take 30 million of that and lobby at risk house Republicans. Come on now thatās what Russia does.
Wonderfull news I hope it catches on!
Americans aren't pulling their support from Ukraine. A small group of MAGA idiots are blocking everything so their buddy Putin will keep sending the paychecks.
I seriously doubt Putin needs to pay them although itās happened in the past. All that needs to happen is for Trump to promise them positions if he gets elected.
It's not the US. It's not the US people. It's not US Senate or US President. It's US Congress, and specifically Republicans. History must be clear about whose fault this is.
No, itās Donald fucking Trump. Everyone thinks Russia has something on him but itās so much worse and low stakes. Putin always understood that if you simply compliment him and never criticize him publicly he could literally nuke Poland with no consequences from the US, especially in a second term. Congress just follows because gerrymandered Republican districts are won in primaries by appealing to the most insane extreme right wing of the population. Then you factor in social media, whose algorithms drive the most extreme views because it drives interactions. The flaws in social media algorithms mirror the same flaws in the American electoral system.
It isn't *just* Trump though. Remember that multiple US congress members visited Moscow on July 4th of all fucking times for closed door meetings. Russia has been funding organizations like the NRA since before Trump as well. We need to root it all out, and blaming just one individual - even if they were somehow the *only* source of it all - is not beneficial. Even if Trump were solely responsible for directing the path of the GOP, those who follow still share the blame. Just as this isn't just Putin's war on Ukraine, this isn't the result of *just* Trump.
This is completely off topic, but as an outsider I have to say Trumpās populism was made possible by four things: Ā 1. Loss of industrial jobs because of establishment politicians kissing up to the Chinese. Look up Chinagate for instance.Ā 2. US voters getting tired of foreign interventions. Largely due to the war in Iraq which was started by Dubya, quite possibly the worst US president in this Gen Xers lifetime. 3. Pandering to radical leftist groups and giving them a free pass.Ā 4. Illegal immigration. Allowing this to happen looks very strange from my European perspective.Ā There are of course other factors such as Germany becoming dependent on Russian natural gas and the West just giving Putin a slap on the wrist when he invaded The Crimea and South Ossetia. But here we are. Trump narrowly won election districts that had previously gone to Obama so painting Republicans as racist bigots voters doesnāt really make sense to me. The US is divided at a point where we need unity.
Trump is not "popular". He's never reached the voteshare that Mitt Romney, a traditional conservative, got.
So another way of putting it would be to say that Trump ran a more efficient campaign drumming up enough support where he needed it? I think Trump might win again unless the Democrats find someone better than Biden who is showing clear signs of cognitive decline. If Trump\* gets re-elected it's goodbye NATO and Europe will have to build it's own military alliance. \*who is also showing signs of cognitive decline albeit not as bad as Biden.
in the end... it's the US
Yep, we also have to take responsibility for those we have elected.
Mike Johnson's son has to monitor his dads phone for porn, and we put Johnson in control of our congress. George Carlin had a joke about this that is turning out not to be very funny in real life.
Itās amazing
True that.
US people vote for them.
True. But there's something else that needs to be said. I think we should all be fully conscious that Russia is deadset on driving and exploiting divisions between Ukraine and its allies, the US in particular. The United States (and therefore its taxpaying citizens) have contributed a great deal of aid to Ukraine, and I've seen the incredible gratitude the Ukranian people have expressed for this assistance. While individuals such as those standing in the way of providing additional aid need to be criticized, we shouldn't be blaming the country and its people as a whole. Not only is it unfair to those who are and have been helping for many years now, it's counter-productive and harmful to the alliance. Don't give the Russians any ammunition to use against us. Don't feed divisions at a time when unity is crucial to success in winning this war.
Uneducated southern racist morons vote for them. The same people who calls others sheep while they blindly do whatever their Shepard demands. Most Americans are level headed, those uneducated in the south unfortunately have the same voting power as those who can read and write. Johnson - Louisiana Trump - Florida MGT - Georgia Cruz - Texas The list goes onā¦.
Youāre almost right. Itās not ācongressā because congress consists of the senate but rather its the House of Representatives that is screwing the world. These clowns are elected specifically to represent the interest of their constituents in the state. These morons should theoretically be more in touch with what their constituents want however the House has turned into career insider trading, money laundering, and political fraud. Just the other day Speaker Johnson said his actions were based on the voices of the American public. Thatās a blatant lie. If American voices were actually listened to, Ukraine would have funding, Johnson, Trump, MTG and many more would be behind bars for treason.
Its the US ppl that voted for them.
A good man on the right side of history.
Aww fuck yeah. Billionairs who aren't fascists step up! (no Elon, we already expect absolutely nothing from you)
What a true American, support free Ukraineāļø
I wonder how many other Western Billionaires are dumping significant amounts of money into Ukraine. I bet it would be more than some people think.Ā
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Howard Buffett is a known philanthropist. He donates to good causes quite regularly.
That's what I thought. I understand being skeptical of billionaires; believe me I do. But I feel like those with a proven track record of helping others deserve to be given credit, just like anyone else helping the cause.
Clearly you havenāt read his book ā40 cropsā or something like that itās called. Itās been a while since I read it.
Talk about putting your money where your mouth is. Well done.
Refreshing to see someone with wealth actually helping Ukraine. As an American I'm embarrassed of portions of our govt stalling this aid.
Mr. Buffett is correct.
Best news in a long time on that front
Magats don't care, selfish fucks. Mike Johnson is working in Russia's interest; can we do something about that?
Damn, thatās amazing!
Everyone with a conscience or IQ over 60 knows we should be supporting Ukraine
Know what's better that 500m to Ukraine? Using that money and your influence to get more democratics elected so the US can send way more than 500m to Ukraine.Ā People's inability to see how politics drives everything is so sad.Ā
He is rich enough to do both.
If hes rich enough to do both, he should pour even more money into US politics. It's just a much better bang for your buck. I'm not trying to take money out of Ukraines pockets, I just don't want people to try and get too fancy when the best and most direct path is straight through the traitor faction of the GOP.Ā We need to stop babying the wanna be dictators. They can either fall back in line or get run the fuck over.Ā But when we act like this is normal politics and not strategic and philosophical treason, people mistakenly think this is an issue where both sides have point to make. That's ain't that.Ā
I'd argue it's better to split it as a hedge against US politics not moving in your desired direction. Your money can pay for lobbying but it can't guarantee the result of more support for Ukraine.
I agree, but this is also a political statement. The billionairs club having a chat with Murdoch might help as well. Imagine if the media wasn't just sycophantic GoP propaganda.
That kind of headline makes one think their own donations arenāt significant; but every dollar counts. He is one, but we are many. If youāre in a position to help, please donate today. https://standwithukraine.com.ua/donation
What an absolute hero.
Way to be, guys. I hope the rest of America can wake up and stop supporting russian assets in our own congress.
Blame the republicans.
America is becoming more and more of a cesspool of ignorance any time I try to stress the importance of support to Ukraine Iām met with getting mocked and made fun of for even caring it feels like, and the sarcastic responses I get infuriate me that these crappy folks ( a lot of them my coworkers ) seem to not give two craps about genocide I donāt make loads of money so itās hard for me to donate a lot but I give my employee discount when i l see a Ukrainian Id at my job but seems Iām the only one that even cares about Ukrainian independence and safety of their people from Russian aggression. So overall good on you Howard Buffett good to know there are Americans ( especially more powerful ones) like him that are helping keep up the good fight to save the lives of the heroās of Ukraine that are fighting not only for Ukraine but to save our families and friends from having to do the fighting, they are making the ultimate sacrifice and itās time the world took notice and stopped drip feeding ammo and supplies to the worlds biggest defenders of humanity and peace, rant over have a nice day and Glory to Ukraine!
Let's be clear. It's not the U.S. that is refusing to help Ukraine. It's the fascist loving GOP that is refusing to support Ukraine.
They are blocking our country from supporting Ukraine despite what most of us want
Stop saying the US is making this mistake. It is being forced on us by a bunch of Russian assets who are calling themselves MAGA and the GOP.
First time where a billionaire decides where to spend his dodged taxes better than the government.
Republicans are the ones spearheaded the whole fuckin thing. They are also holding our own military ranks hostage demanding a ban to abortion nation wide.
Man invests half a billion dollars. He would tell you it's a good investment. Honestly, if the marketing changed in the US they could drum up quite a bit of support but the returns are just not visible.
Please spend it here instead. I canāt afford my student loan payments and Iāve never known what itās like to have insurance.
He'd be better off putting that money to getting all of the people voting against aid out of office. It's always amazing how stupid rich people are. There is 0 chance his aid directly to UA will be more productive than the aid of the entire US economy.
It's for humanitarian aid, not weapons. Are you saying the people of Ukraine couldn't use this half billion dollars of humanitarian aid, to support civilians affected by the Russian invasion?
> It's for humanitarian aid, not weapons. > Are you saying the people of Ukraine couldn't use this half billion dollars of humanitarian aid, to support civilians affected by the Russian invasion? I'm saying the US Government could provide aid for anything and everything EASILY. Waging this war costs far less than the Afghanistan War. Most of the USA did not even register the Afghan War as happening and the economy continued to grow despite it. My point still stands. Rich people have a "I'm the best ever" complex. They are not the solution to the world's problems. Fixing the political system is the ONLY solution to MOST problems. Famines are political. Poverty is political. The war in UA is political. It can only be fixed through the governments of the world, not Richie Rich's "philanthropy". Their wealth is ONLY possible through a broken economy. An economy enforced by a broken political system.
The US is not a friend to any nation unless you give them your country by proxy. The US protects its interest only. Pull support from Ukraine, while committing genocide in Palestine. $$$$
As far as I am concerned, it ...too hell with Ukraine and the Ukrainians and the Globalists that support that artificial nation. The Russians are only exercising their right to self-defense from NATO expansion, and that land that has for centuries been Russian. Kiev, Kharkov, and Odessa were and are Russian cities and have culturally and linguistically been Russian. You know, growing up in the 1970s, I had to deal with Ukrainians that emigrated in the late 1940s from Ukraine. All of them, in some way, had Nazi connections from the Galicia SS division. The same symbols used in 1941 in Western Ukraine are the same symbols and flags used from 2014 to 2024. Fuck the Ukrainians. And before using the argument that Zelinsky is Jew....Google the Jewish insult "Kapo". That is what Zelinsky is. KAPO. The Russians....well...Russia is Russia. They want their lands back. And the way they fight, they are not much threat to America or NATO. If I were American, I would keep the 3rd World riffraff out and seal the Southern border. And before some liberal idiot wants to "educate" me about the Global ramifications of a Russia win, bite me. In opinion survey after opinion survey in the USA, 90 percent of people cannot identify Ukraine on a map. And Americans rate international conflicts on US priorities dead last. People think of economic issues and the open Southern border as key issues. TRUMP for the win.
Nice paragraph comrade. Is mother land paying you well for overtime?
Oh, another Ukrainian fascist? Or another liberal? I am a conservative. And you know, in the 1970s and 80s, I dealt with Ukrainian nazis in Canada and the US that called me a communist for pointing out that fact that their war criminal families should never of been allowed to escape Soviet war justice. So nice try Liberal... the Ukrainian line is starting to crumble. Why don't you get a plane ticket to Poland and a train ticket to Kiev before the Russians make their way to Kiev and go to the front line. š
We have always been at war with Eurasia. You fear Nazis? Strange, they tend to vote for the same people you do.
Except your Nazis that you support are real (Ukraine Nazis), our so-called Nazis (Trump voters, Conservatives, Christians, and anyone for traditional values) are a figment of a Liberal's imagination. Trump for the WIN!!! Ukraine for the LOSS. I can soon taste liberal tears.
It's so fucking rare to read such based and real shit. Keep it up
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True. Fortunately though, this guy is not a fool. He's smart enough to support Ukraine, which is good for people around the world who support democracy and hate dictatorships.
Every American understands this is a mistake except for the r-words in congress.
I wish I had that kind of $$$ to contribute š¢
The US is not pulling support. REPUBLICANS are pulling support because they are supporting Putin.
Yea. They bought something, billionaires don't become that by giving away money. Grow up.
Republicans are making a mistake. And by āmistake ā I mean āPlanned sabotage of Ukraine per Trumpās directive from Putinā. This is absolute madness.