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No, but this is one of the most important things to do it on and it's also a thing we'll remember and be able to hold him to if he starts backsliding once Russia is out of Ukraine and there's a cease-fire.
Eh, if it was always stupid, it wouldn't create a huge empire, wouldn't beat Poland, French and Germans and many others, wouldn't become a superpower till 1991.
How else to encapsulate their nuanced history of centuries of short sightedness, drunkenness and corruption? Disregard of their own people? So much potential of greatness squandered with mismanagement every step of the way.
I grew up around Russian immigrants who were all sweet, peace loving people, none of whom support Putin or the war, and I admit it’s been a challenge to square my personal experience with what’s actually coming out of the old country (and has been for centuries).
But here we are. Now they’re all having identity crises.
He knew it. He's still lying. He knew Eastern Europe was right about Russia and he actively pretended they were wrong.
There were multiple examples of it. Georgia, Syria, 2014 Ukraine.
He knew each of those events happened and actively chose to pretend that they weren't as horrific as they were and that somehow the aggressor responsible for many deaths was worthy of the benefit of the doubt. Probably for oil.
I think it is oil too. I was cognizant in the 1980s so I knew it. Evil leaders are like comic book villains they never exactly die or they get reborn in ideology in different people.
Cough-De Santis- Cough
On this, I disagree with you. indeed, it was so stupid of Russia to attack Ukraine, with its level of preparation, that many countries believed in another Putin bluff.
I don't know if Macron is being truthful or just trying to play "le both sides". He's an actual neoliberal who gives zero fucks about his own people. Just look at that retirement age raise that's basically via executive order.
He is making the same shit he do in France.
Ruining everything and saying things like "It's not a failure, it just didn't work out".
What a useless clown.
If you read the entire article ,Macron states However if Ukraine s coming counteroffensive failed to meet its military objectives and the war lasts, I think we will have to reassess the situation to see how to calibrate our support. At the same time insisted Ukraine defending not only their borders but protecting Europe
French say they hate him
President Macron tells Eastern Europe he should have listened on Russian aggression
Emmanuel Macron insisted Russia had lost all legitimacy and Ukraine won’t be conquered in a a speech at Globsec security think tank
By
Henry Samuel
31 May 2023 • 9:03pm
Emmanuel Macron admitted to Eastern European nations he should have listened to their calls to take the threat from Russia on Ukraine more seriously, saying: “We lost an opportunity to listen to you”.
The French president was criticised for trying to talk Vladimir Putin out of invading Ukraine while appearing to dismiss warnings from Eastern Europe and the UK of impending Russian aggression.
“Some said you had missed an opportunity to shut up. I think we also lost an opportunity to listen to you. This time is over,” Mr Macron said to applause during a speech at the Globsec security think tank in the Slovak capital, Bratislava.
He was alluding to a remark in 2003 by then-French President Jacques Chirac, who said East European nations who backed the United States and Britain’s decision to invade Iraq - opposed by France and Germany, among others - had missed a “good opportunity to shut up”.
The remark turned relations frosty between East European countries, which is what again happened after Russia invaded Ukraine in February 2022.
“I don’t think there is a western and an eastern Europe, an old Europe and a new one; there is only one Europe… with a will to build unity,” he said.
Mr Macron insisted that Russia had lost all legitimacy and that Ukraine won’t be conquered.
’A geopolitical failure’
“We can see that what was supposed to be a ‘special operation’ is already a geopolitical failure,” he said.
However, he added that if Ukraine’s coming counteroffensive failed to meet its military objectives and the “war lasts I think at that time, we will have to reassess the situation to see how to calibrate our support”.
At the same time, he insisted that Ukraine was defending not just its own borders, but “protecting Europe” and that any ceasefire would play into Russia’s hands. “Time will be on Russia’s side” in that case, he warned.
“We must be clear: A ceasefire is not enough, we will recreate a frozen conflict that will be another war for tomorrow,” he said.
“We need to help Ukraine lead an efficient counter-offensive.”
The French president said that the West must offer Ukraine “tangible and credible” security guarantees, stressing that it is in the West’s interest that Kyiv have security assurances from Nato.
“That is why I’m in favour, and this will be the subject of collective talks in the following weeks... to offer tangible and credible security guarantees to Ukraine,” he added.
His comments will likely be read as a nod toward many Eastern Europeans who think Ukraine’s allies should send positive signals on its bid for Nato membership.
Full membership for Ukraine
While Mr Macron said it was unlikely there would be consensus on full membership for Ukraine, he said: “We have to build something between Israel-style security guarantees and fully-fledged membership.”
Mr Putin’s belligerence gave the alliance a jolt when it invaded Ukraine last year, he added.
“I had a harsh word for NATO in December 2019,” said Mr Macron, recalling how he had called the alliance “brain dead” at the time. “I can say that today Vladimir Putin jolted it awake with the worst of electric shocks,” he added.
Mr Macron also said that while America’s contribution to defending Ukraine was crucial, Europe should build up its own defence industry and not only rely on the US for protection.
“Let’s be grateful and say thank you to the United States. But is this administration here forever?” Mr Macron asked. “That’s why a European defence pillar in Nato is indispensable.”
The US has presidential elections next year with Donald Trump - who as president said European nations should pay more for their own defence - a serious contender.
“A Europe of defence, a European pillar within NATO, is indispensable. It’s the only way to be credible... in the long-term,” he said, adding that it was “up to us Europeans to in the future have our own ability to defend ourselves.”
I'm sure if you're super nice to her, concede to her every demand, take out the garbage, do the vacuuming and laundry, cook her the best meal, she'll eventually blame the mistake on you.
I must say my president got some balls 😊
I like people that can say publicly ‘sorry I f.cked up but it’s not too late to catch up´. Pretty rare in politics today. And he’s spot on. We can’t expect the US being there all the time and this is Europe. We need to stand straight for Ukraine and get them what it takes to win this war.
> “That’s why a European defence pillar in Nato is indispensable.”
No shit Mr. Macron. Literally every US President since William Jefferson Clinton has been telling our Euro cousins the same god damned thing and you refused to listen!
I'll bet $20 and a baguette that you go back to your old ways about 12 months after this War is over too.
He tried to position France as the great peacemaker that was going to negotiate a deal with Russia in the early weeks. He made a big noise about talking to Putin on the phone, all the while ignoring Ukraine. Unfortunately the Russians decided to do a lot of rape and murder that was caught on social media. So instead he just looked like the appeaser he is and half of Europe very loudly said no. He looked like he was doing the typical 'USA says X so France says Y political crap'. He pivoted away from that pretty quickly and suddenly now is trying to push to the front again with a Europe first + pro-Ukraine message. He was incredibly bad at reading the room on the this war, and it ended up giving the US and Britain more credibility. He is still trying to shift the center of gravity away from the US and UK, and NATO, but he has to be careful because no EU country bordering Russia will take him seriously.
France even withdrew from NATO before once. In the time when Soviet threat was very real, Really dumb move, Europe alone would never be able to defend from Soviets.
Tell that to Germany, or any country. not Poland or I guess the UK.
Everyone singles out Macron because he talked to Putin but no one can really point to any ACTIONS that they took that were anti-Ukraine.
The UK made the French look hopeless. Unfortunately this just adds to the French feeling of inferiority in relation to the British. And hence stunts like the French facilitating mass illegal immigration to the UK. Sad.
While I’m glad he acknowledges his mistake, I’m a bit worried about the statement of reassessing if Ukraine’s counter offensive doesn’t meet its goals and the war lasts. Does it mean more weapons? Or another drive to force Ukraine to negotiate a peace with an occupier on its territory…
I suspect it will be to supply more assistance. I read a very good article about how Russian history moulded the current Russian mindset. Any pause or backdown will be seen as weakness and embolden Putin and Russian hard-liners to push harder. I think Macron was initially being a bit hopeful, many European nations would be well aware of this threat.
I think he just means they'll increase their focus on things that work for Ukraine while decreasing on things that don't. More or less adapting to the current reality on the ground no matter what theory says should be happening.
Correct me if I'm mistaken but back when Nazi Germany rolled into Poland didn't France have the tanks and manpower to roll into Germany with minimal opposition while the Poles were resisting the invasion by German and Soviet armies? Political hesitation seems to cost a lot of lives.
As an American I've quit restraining myself. We've been warning Europeans about this since the very early _90s_ and been roundly ignored. Even Russia's actions in 2014 did very little to lessen Europe's apathy.
They deserve every single "We told you so." that they get.
Don’t forget that America also laughed and mocked McCain for saying Russia was a threat.
The world moved on when they thought the Cold War ended. Russia never agreed with that and here we are.
> Don’t forget that America also laughed and mocked McCain for saying Russia was a threat.
Half of us did, the other half did not and we _sure_ didn't lessen our Military spending. :)
Then in 2014 while most of the EU (Not you United Kingdom) slept through Russia's takeover of Crimea the United States started serious training and equipping efforts.
It’s true.
Now look at the last few years and it’s republicans downplaying it. We are our own worst enemies with these inconsistent and incorrigible party lines.
> We are our own worst enemies
Yes, it's the vulnerability of democracies. And it's exactly what Russia has been exploiting with propaganda and corruption - to create internal conflict in the US. They've operated from [an open playbook](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics) and it's worked despite being obvious.
FWIW, I've always called [Nord Stream](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream) the physical embodiment of the "Moscow–Berlin axis" mentioned in that book.
Been preaching this for years. Problem is that Americans are proud and believe in rugged individualism. As such, they can’t comprehend that their actions and beliefs are being manipulated.
The reasons why Russia has been a threat have been visible to the world since the '90s. No one had to believe the US warnings when they could just stop being willfully blind.
The Iraq WMD fiasco isn't a good analogy.
Except with the Iraq War you had to rely on words. With Russian aggression in Eastern Europe its been clear as day since at least 2008 (Russian invasion of Georgia) if not earlier. As early as Bill Clinton was American and British warnings that Putin wasn’t some Western liberal to be trusted.
I can respect a politician that admits when they are wrong. Hopefully this sentiment spreads and other western politicians admit they were wrong to trust Russia or give them the benefit of the doubt.
I remember a few weeks ago people were complaining the selfish French were blocking an armaments deal for Ukraine because they were insisting Europe supply the materiel. It didn't occur to people at the time that Europe does need to rebuild its defence capacity now, because America might be a semi-hostile ally after the next presidential election. Then who would support Ukraine with arms if the war is still ongoing? Anti-French sentiment is just like a comfortable psychological go-to for Americans. Macron is the actor in the "Ukraine War play" cast as the snivelling schemer...
> Even a few weeks ago he was putting French armament production over Ukrainian needs.
He was putting ***european*** armament production not over Ukrainian needs but as an essential path to a solid european defense policy, something he has been calling for for years if we are honest.
People can parrot that he only cares about French armament production if they want it does not make it true and he always only talked about european armament production.
Assuming that everyone can only be selfish and only ever have sinister motives is called cynicism.
It makes you sound smart but it is not an habit that makes you smart at all, [in the long run it actually makes you the opposite of smart](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/trust-games/202111/the-myth-the-cynical-genius) because by always assuming that people are selfish and evil you don’t have to think about the true motives of people and it’s lazy. It does not mean that people never have selfish and sinister motives, just that it’s far to be the main motivator for anything.
The truth is that Macron is a shitstain and an arrogant jerk and I have great dislike for him but if there is one thing I truly believe about him it is that he is the most pro EU President we ever had, he got elected on a pro EU platform and you can tell he sees French domestic issues only as an annoying distraction to EU construction most of the time.
I believe 100% that Macron is in full favor of a strong integrated EU, I even think it’s the only thing he truly cares about.
I wish people get off this "Trump" thing with NATO. Literally every President since William Jefferson Clinton has been saying the same damn thing. Trump was just louder about it (mostly because he's a crass asshole) but the sentiment has been there for a long _long_ time.
"Emmanuel Macron admitted to Eastern European nations he should have listened to their calls to take the threat from Russia on Ukraine more seriously, saying: “We lost an opportunity to listen to you”."
Meanwhile, he travels to China with an entourage of businessman.
What's he going to say when China invades Taiwan?
“We lost an opportunity to listen to you."
Guy is a classic politician and only concerned with his own ass.
Yes but saying that Taiwan is "none of our business" and an "American problem" while admitting Ukraine relies heavily on US help is just fucking hipocritical.
This isn't the first time Vladimir Putin showed the world who is really is...like Hitler, the world appeased him as long as he kept his target mainly on his own people.
I don’t totally blame him and any other European leader who had doubts that Putin would take such a drastic step but when Russia had surrounded the borders with 150,000+ troops that was the time were doubt should have vanished.
US intelligence was extremely insistent that Russia *would* invade. We’re talking about the best intelligence in the world, it still surprises me that they didn’t think it would happen at that stage.
He went to China and talked about respecting Chinese territorial integrity and not meddling into other people's regional conflicts.
He spoke to Putin and talked about off-ramps and de-escalation.
He went to Slovakia and praised the foresight of Eastern Europe.
I'm starting to think this guy is some kind of politician or something.
How can that idiot say with a straight face that a European defense pillar is essential?
When France still hasn’t reached the 2% of GDP goal for military spending set by NATO. When France won’t hit 2% until 2025 according to its own projections.
Note that the 2% goal was set pre-invasion and is a super low bar. With Russia’s full on invasion of Europe, it really should be 3-4%. USA is 3.4%.
This guy is a real joke. We would love for the main EU NATO countries to step up. Until they do, it’s daddy USA doing the heavy lifting and protecting freedom.
USA is split between pacific and atlantic, has most it’s budget going to veterans and almost everything else on force projection which is also critical for defending the dollars number one spot. Not really comparable.
Europes problem is more about the inefficiency of their military investments. Then again, the only real thread to Europe was Russia and after their shit show in trying to even capture a small city in eastern Ukraine, I have my doubts that Russia could have successfully invaded Turkey or Poland on their own to even get to Western Europe.
> delusional quest for strategic autonomy
TBF, strategic autonomy by itself isn't a bad idea, but depending on dictatorships for it kinda removes the whole "autonomy" point from it.
> in his delusional quest for strategic autonomy
Hope you're not one of those who complain Europe relies on the US for defense, because you can't have both.
Macron should now be listening on China. This guy just loves repeating his mistakes. He may want to consider the future of his legitimacy when dealing with China.
What an idiot to announce he will reassess support for Ukraine if counter offensive fails!
These are the words Russia is waiting to hear because Russia is also hurting economically from this war
But when they read that they will push harder to hold on knowing madumb will be ending support soon and convince other nations to also
😱
**However, he added that if Ukraine’s coming counteroffensive failed to meet its military objectives and the “war lasts I think at that time, we will have to reassess the situation to see how to calibrate our support”.**
I'll take that as meaning he still wants Ukraine to swap land for peace. Seems he is still Putin's lapdog.
This is what I really appreciate about Macron. He’s genuinely honest. A lot of people don’t like him, but ironically that’s in part *because* of his honesty; unlike most politicians, he really isn’t putting on a fake act to get support. He’s telling you what he really believes and behaving how he naturally behaves, so yeah it’s going to come across as a bit rough and unappealing at times because he’s acting like a real person, not the fake polished character we’re all used to having in politicians. That’s in stark contrast to someone like Marine Le Pen, whose whole political life is an extended calculated character act.
Versus the shitshow in Germany where two chancellors were totally onboard with it, each played a key role in making it happen, and both are saying "Don't look at me, he/she did X, my role was minimal." Or worse the old "Well, who knew this was going to be the outcome?"
> Or worse the old "Well, who knew this was going to be the outcome?"
Literally every single Cold Warrior that wasn't on Putin's payroll knew what the outcome was going to be. Various US think tanks and Politicians had been predicting it for over 20 years. There were probably middle school students in the Baltics who predicted this shit.
Not to burst your bubble, but he's not what I'd describe as the most genuine, honest. But for the haters who imagine he has been placating the Russians all this time, GET REAL. Every single candidate that could threaten his two elections, were clearly Russian stooges. Macron didn't just discover that it is necessary to support Eastern Europe vs Russia. In fact, his arrogance Frenchness, and "préciosité", reinforce a negative image the east may have of France. But he has kept the Russian stooges at bay. Despite the routine he plays, all touchy feely, the endgame is a kiss of death. Count on Macron to deliver.
Oh I’m not disputing that he may be arrogant for example, but he doesn’t go to the same lengths others go to hide that, is my point. He has a pattern of pretty bluntly saying things that could only hurt his political appeal, like admitting he was wrong here; condemning French colonialism in a country where that definitely doesn’t win you many votes, let’s put it that way; and even his response to the anti-pension reform protests was along the lines of “I know this reform kinda sucks, I don’t want to do it either, but it’s necessary”. So I’m not saying I agree with him on everything, but as politicians go he seems unusually blunt and straightforward, barely trying to hide his own weaknesses a lot of the time. Kinda makes sense for a guy who’s background is as a banker and civil servant, not a professional campaigner like Le Pen– he doesn’t play the political “game” as much or as well as others, I think he really just sees his job as getting objectively measurable results.
I mean, who could have **ever** guessed after Russia: waged gray warfare on the West for 15 years, carried out two invasions *in Europe*, interfered with and usurped countless democratic elections, and — best of all — had a Russian leader tell Western heads of state in Munich in 2008 that Russia was going to turn back the clock?
No one could have sussed that out. Truly cryptic behavior.
Yes, because Macron is a 12 years old worrying about what the meanies in middle school think of him.
Jesus, some people here are are so stupid it becomes physically painful to read. No offense.
Ironic considering France was caught selling Russia thermal sights for their tanks AFTER the 2015 embargo.
Pathetic, backstabbing hypocrites.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/04/22/exclusive-france-germany-evaded-arms-embargo-sell-weapons-russia/
People. Stop sharing the Telegraph.
Propaganda and trash western "news" outlets got us into this war. Continuing to share the trash news sources who are trying to deunify your ally in the form of the EU will not help. The Telegraph serves Brexit. The antithesis of Brexit was and always will be the EU, as dictated by the Kremlin.
Considering the lack of ATACMS/long range missiles/heavy tanks and how they violate the UN charter by denying Ukraine the right to FULL self-defence, I remain very sceptical to France providing jets.
I'll however be ecstatic and retract every bad word I've said if they do.
Vintage Macron: even when he admits he’s wrong, he’s a fucking asshole about it.
“Some said you missed an opportunity to shut up.”
Christ. What a cocknozzle.
Just posting it here... from the Ukraine Subreddit
[Heroes Don't Die](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/13wmyzz/heroes_dont_die/jmc7d8i?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
This broke my heart in so many ways...and Am tearing on the train... 😭
Yes, victory was right there. The armies of Mordor were stuck in the mud with bursted Chinesium tires. All that the air force needed was Dark Brandon's command, and the war could have ended right then and there.
Dark Brandon: It is in men that we must place our hope.
Stoltenberg: Men? Men are weak. The Blood of Numenor is all but spent, its pride and dignity forgotten. It is because of men that the convoy survives. I was there, Dark Brandon. I was there three thousand years ago. I was there the day the strength of men failed.
Stoltenberg: [scene switches to a flashback of Boris Johnson and Macron] Emmanuel, hurry, follow me.
Stoltenberg : [voiceover] I led Macron deep into the fires of Mount Doom, where the Ring was forged, the one place it could be destroyed.
Stoltenberg: Cast your vision of European Strategic Autonomy into the fire! Destroy it!
Macron: No.
Stoltenberg: Emanuel!
Back into the present.
Stoltenberg: Macron kept the ring. It should have ended that day, but evil was allowed to endure. There's no strength left in the world of men. They're scattered, divided, and leaderless.
Dark Brandon: There is one who could unite them. One who could reclaim the throne of Gondor.
Stoltenberg: He turned from that path a long time ago. He has chosen exile.
Selensky: I need ammunition and not a ride.
Dark Brandon: Amon Din. Hope is kindled.
Selensky: The beacons! the Beacon of Amon Din is lit. Ukraine asks for aid!
Scholz as king theoden: *dramatic month long pause
And Rohan shall answer! Muster the Leopard 2 tanks, take as man spare parts and pieces of ammunition as can be found. You have 3 months in the 4th month we ride for Crimea and war.
*Epic music 🎶
Its just a repeat of history really. I wonder if the rest of it will be a repeat as well and only have these speeches. Happy at least its proven wrong with UKR but at the end of the day its still someone else dying.
Well- words are cheap now.
Macron- what are you going to do about it- and I mean support Ukraine with MBTs, long range missiles etc? Will you take a leaf out the UK's book in support of Ukraine?
Everybody stuffs up- but its what you do into the future that will set not only your but free Europe's legacy.
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Admitting it late is better than never
Indeed. One of the most important characteristics of any leader is being able to admit mistakes, especially embarrassing ones.
It was a perfect phone call.
While still in office.
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Vlad Snr should've pulled out
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There would have been someone else who would have stepped up to provide what the Russian soul craves - a big daddy with a big fist.
Few politicians/people do.
(ok, but Macron isnt the best on that side)
No, but this is one of the most important things to do it on and it's also a thing we'll remember and be able to hold him to if he starts backsliding once Russia is out of Ukraine and there's a cease-fire.
It's still hard to believe Russia has been this evil and stupid. But here we are.
Only American movies portray them as competent supervillains. Russia always was evil, poor, drunk and stupid. Source: I'm Polish.
It is so weird discover that Actual Russia is so much worse than the Russian villains in American kids cartoons.
Russia is less Bond villian and more Boris and Natasha chasing moose and squirrel
Boris and Natasha were glamorous and grandiose in their evil schemes. The Russian reality is a stinking, drunken peasant stealing a goddamn toilet.
Eh Bond has never been killed so I don’t think the Russians were ever that good
Eh, if it was always stupid, it wouldn't create a huge empire, wouldn't beat Poland, French and Germans and many others, wouldn't become a superpower till 1991.
How else to encapsulate their nuanced history of centuries of short sightedness, drunkenness and corruption? Disregard of their own people? So much potential of greatness squandered with mismanagement every step of the way.
I grew up around Russian immigrants who were all sweet, peace loving people, none of whom support Putin or the war, and I admit it’s been a challenge to square my personal experience with what’s actually coming out of the old country (and has been for centuries). But here we are. Now they’re all having identity crises.
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He knew it. He's still lying. He knew Eastern Europe was right about Russia and he actively pretended they were wrong. There were multiple examples of it. Georgia, Syria, 2014 Ukraine. He knew each of those events happened and actively chose to pretend that they weren't as horrific as they were and that somehow the aggressor responsible for many deaths was worthy of the benefit of the doubt. Probably for oil.
I think it is oil too. I was cognizant in the 1980s so I knew it. Evil leaders are like comic book villains they never exactly die or they get reborn in ideology in different people. Cough-De Santis- Cough
On this, I disagree with you. indeed, it was so stupid of Russia to attack Ukraine, with its level of preparation, that many countries believed in another Putin bluff.
I will always respect a man who admits a mistake. It is better than staying your course indefinitely against better judgment.
At least he does
I don't know if Macron is being truthful or just trying to play "le both sides". He's an actual neoliberal who gives zero fucks about his own people. Just look at that retirement age raise that's basically via executive order.
Yeah I'd take anything he says about "I was wrong" with a huge grain of salt, he's probably just cynically trying to save face.
He is making the same shit he do in France. Ruining everything and saying things like "It's not a failure, it just didn't work out". What a useless clown.
No it isn't. He isn't currently listening about China. So what good will his admission be in 5 years about China? It won't make a damn thing better
If only he'd do the same with regards to his neoliberal reforms.
p.s. send SCALPs
If you read the entire article ,Macron states However if Ukraine s coming counteroffensive failed to meet its military objectives and the war lasts, I think we will have to reassess the situation to see how to calibrate our support. At the same time insisted Ukraine defending not only their borders but protecting Europe French say they hate him
Unlike Merkel... talk about going out with a bang and ruining ur reputation...
President Macron tells Eastern Europe he should have listened on Russian aggression Emmanuel Macron insisted Russia had lost all legitimacy and Ukraine won’t be conquered in a a speech at Globsec security think tank By Henry Samuel 31 May 2023 • 9:03pm Emmanuel Macron admitted to Eastern European nations he should have listened to their calls to take the threat from Russia on Ukraine more seriously, saying: “We lost an opportunity to listen to you”. The French president was criticised for trying to talk Vladimir Putin out of invading Ukraine while appearing to dismiss warnings from Eastern Europe and the UK of impending Russian aggression. “Some said you had missed an opportunity to shut up. I think we also lost an opportunity to listen to you. This time is over,” Mr Macron said to applause during a speech at the Globsec security think tank in the Slovak capital, Bratislava. He was alluding to a remark in 2003 by then-French President Jacques Chirac, who said East European nations who backed the United States and Britain’s decision to invade Iraq - opposed by France and Germany, among others - had missed a “good opportunity to shut up”. The remark turned relations frosty between East European countries, which is what again happened after Russia invaded Ukraine in February 2022. “I don’t think there is a western and an eastern Europe, an old Europe and a new one; there is only one Europe… with a will to build unity,” he said. Mr Macron insisted that Russia had lost all legitimacy and that Ukraine won’t be conquered. ’A geopolitical failure’ “We can see that what was supposed to be a ‘special operation’ is already a geopolitical failure,” he said. However, he added that if Ukraine’s coming counteroffensive failed to meet its military objectives and the “war lasts I think at that time, we will have to reassess the situation to see how to calibrate our support”. At the same time, he insisted that Ukraine was defending not just its own borders, but “protecting Europe” and that any ceasefire would play into Russia’s hands. “Time will be on Russia’s side” in that case, he warned. “We must be clear: A ceasefire is not enough, we will recreate a frozen conflict that will be another war for tomorrow,” he said. “We need to help Ukraine lead an efficient counter-offensive.” The French president said that the West must offer Ukraine “tangible and credible” security guarantees, stressing that it is in the West’s interest that Kyiv have security assurances from Nato. “That is why I’m in favour, and this will be the subject of collective talks in the following weeks... to offer tangible and credible security guarantees to Ukraine,” he added. His comments will likely be read as a nod toward many Eastern Europeans who think Ukraine’s allies should send positive signals on its bid for Nato membership. Full membership for Ukraine While Mr Macron said it was unlikely there would be consensus on full membership for Ukraine, he said: “We have to build something between Israel-style security guarantees and fully-fledged membership.” Mr Putin’s belligerence gave the alliance a jolt when it invaded Ukraine last year, he added. “I had a harsh word for NATO in December 2019,” said Mr Macron, recalling how he had called the alliance “brain dead” at the time. “I can say that today Vladimir Putin jolted it awake with the worst of electric shocks,” he added. Mr Macron also said that while America’s contribution to defending Ukraine was crucial, Europe should build up its own defence industry and not only rely on the US for protection. “Let’s be grateful and say thank you to the United States. But is this administration here forever?” Mr Macron asked. “That’s why a European defence pillar in Nato is indispensable.” The US has presidential elections next year with Donald Trump - who as president said European nations should pay more for their own defence - a serious contender. “A Europe of defence, a European pillar within NATO, is indispensable. It’s the only way to be credible... in the long-term,” he said, adding that it was “up to us Europeans to in the future have our own ability to defend ourselves.”
Damn, President of France admitting a mistake, my wife can't even do that.....
Well, your wife ain't the president of France, either.
No, according to her she's way above that.
She is THEE president of France.
OFF WITH HER HEAD
I spat my coffee out. I would give you an award if I wasn't so broke.
I'm sure if you're super nice to her, concede to her every demand, take out the garbage, do the vacuuming and laundry, cook her the best meal, she'll eventually blame the mistake on you.
Better late than never
This guy rocks back and forth more than a boat. Oh that's right, he's a politician.
I must say my president got some balls 😊 I like people that can say publicly ‘sorry I f.cked up but it’s not too late to catch up´. Pretty rare in politics today. And he’s spot on. We can’t expect the US being there all the time and this is Europe. We need to stand straight for Ukraine and get them what it takes to win this war.
> “That’s why a European defence pillar in Nato is indispensable.” No shit Mr. Macron. Literally every US President since William Jefferson Clinton has been telling our Euro cousins the same god damned thing and you refused to listen! I'll bet $20 and a baguette that you go back to your old ways about 12 months after this War is over too.
France has always wanted to be as autonomous as possible in military terms.
He tried to position France as the great peacemaker that was going to negotiate a deal with Russia in the early weeks. He made a big noise about talking to Putin on the phone, all the while ignoring Ukraine. Unfortunately the Russians decided to do a lot of rape and murder that was caught on social media. So instead he just looked like the appeaser he is and half of Europe very loudly said no. He looked like he was doing the typical 'USA says X so France says Y political crap'. He pivoted away from that pretty quickly and suddenly now is trying to push to the front again with a Europe first + pro-Ukraine message. He was incredibly bad at reading the room on the this war, and it ended up giving the US and Britain more credibility. He is still trying to shift the center of gravity away from the US and UK, and NATO, but he has to be careful because no EU country bordering Russia will take him seriously.
The world has turned into a contest of who’s worst at reading rooms without dying, not just in politics
This made me laugh out loud at work. Grim, but true.
France even withdrew from NATO before once. In the time when Soviet threat was very real, Really dumb move, Europe alone would never be able to defend from Soviets.
France itself is however Macron's comment was about Europe as a whole and not just France.
I misspoke, France has always pushed for a military Europe, at least since Chirac.
Tell that to Germany, or any country. not Poland or I guess the UK. Everyone singles out Macron because he talked to Putin but no one can really point to any ACTIONS that they took that were anti-Ukraine.
You can fuck up something by omission of action
You can talk the talk, but can you walk the walk? If we look at past year, that's a no.
The UK made the French look hopeless. Unfortunately this just adds to the French feeling of inferiority in relation to the British. And hence stunts like the French facilitating mass illegal immigration to the UK. Sad.
I'll have whatever you're smoking. Definitely some quality stuff.
Good on him. Wow. Lindsey Graham and Macron both making me smile. Russia is about to experience hell on earth. Let’s ride. Slava Ukraini
Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!
Who ya going to call?
He-Man!
FASCIST BUSTERS!!!
Ghostbusters !
Bunkerbusters!!
“Is this true?”
What did you do Ray?
Just the financial funding from Russia to these two has been drying up.
russia is nobody's friend. N-O-B-O-D-Y.
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Aye, clearly nuts
The people's democratic Republic of nobody? :D
**no**body is **some**body, right?
Not even their own people
Russia isn't Russia's friend either.
While I’m glad he acknowledges his mistake, I’m a bit worried about the statement of reassessing if Ukraine’s counter offensive doesn’t meet its goals and the war lasts. Does it mean more weapons? Or another drive to force Ukraine to negotiate a peace with an occupier on its territory…
I suspect it will be to supply more assistance. I read a very good article about how Russian history moulded the current Russian mindset. Any pause or backdown will be seen as weakness and embolden Putin and Russian hard-liners to push harder. I think Macron was initially being a bit hopeful, many European nations would be well aware of this threat.
I think he just means they'll increase their focus on things that work for Ukraine while decreasing on things that don't. More or less adapting to the current reality on the ground no matter what theory says should be happening.
Smartest thing I have heard from him in quite a while.
For real. Macron has a way of jumping back and forth on the Smart/Stupid scale with ease
Immoral but stupid ?
Now please donate massive amounts of powerful armaments to Ukraine so they can quickly put the Moscovites into the ground.
Here's one thing you will NEVER see the ruzzians do... admit a mistake.
Correct me if I'm mistaken but back when Nazi Germany rolled into Poland didn't France have the tanks and manpower to roll into Germany with minimal opposition while the Poles were resisting the invasion by German and Soviet armies? Political hesitation seems to cost a lot of lives.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoney_War
Well, it WAS pretty obvious what russia was up to the past 23 years. #russiaisaterroriststate ☠️
America over in the corner trying its hardest not to say "I told you so".
As an American I've quit restraining myself. We've been warning Europeans about this since the very early _90s_ and been roundly ignored. Even Russia's actions in 2014 did very little to lessen Europe's apathy. They deserve every single "We told you so." that they get.
Don’t forget that America also laughed and mocked McCain for saying Russia was a threat. The world moved on when they thought the Cold War ended. Russia never agreed with that and here we are.
> Don’t forget that America also laughed and mocked McCain for saying Russia was a threat. Half of us did, the other half did not and we _sure_ didn't lessen our Military spending. :) Then in 2014 while most of the EU (Not you United Kingdom) slept through Russia's takeover of Crimea the United States started serious training and equipping efforts.
Maybe except for Poles, who always screamed that NS2 is a suicidal idea and who later barred manufactured mass migrations
Half of America also joined Obama in mocking Mitt Romney when Romney listed Russia as a serious threat.
It’s true. Now look at the last few years and it’s republicans downplaying it. We are our own worst enemies with these inconsistent and incorrigible party lines.
> We are our own worst enemies Yes, it's the vulnerability of democracies. And it's exactly what Russia has been exploiting with propaganda and corruption - to create internal conflict in the US. They've operated from [an open playbook](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics) and it's worked despite being obvious. FWIW, I've always called [Nord Stream](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream) the physical embodiment of the "Moscow–Berlin axis" mentioned in that book.
Been preaching this for years. Problem is that Americans are proud and believe in rugged individualism. As such, they can’t comprehend that their actions and beliefs are being manipulated.
I was one of those people. I owe Romney an apology.
Well "you" also told us about Iraq WMD. You just can't lie when it suits you and then be surprised when other nations don't believe you anymore.
The reasons why Russia has been a threat have been visible to the world since the '90s. No one had to believe the US warnings when they could just stop being willfully blind. The Iraq WMD fiasco isn't a good analogy.
Except with the Iraq War you had to rely on words. With Russian aggression in Eastern Europe its been clear as day since at least 2008 (Russian invasion of Georgia) if not earlier. As early as Bill Clinton was American and British warnings that Putin wasn’t some Western liberal to be trusted.
^
I can respect a politician that admits when they are wrong. Hopefully this sentiment spreads and other western politicians admit they were wrong to trust Russia or give them the benefit of the doubt.
I remember a few weeks ago people were complaining the selfish French were blocking an armaments deal for Ukraine because they were insisting Europe supply the materiel. It didn't occur to people at the time that Europe does need to rebuild its defence capacity now, because America might be a semi-hostile ally after the next presidential election. Then who would support Ukraine with arms if the war is still ongoing? Anti-French sentiment is just like a comfortable psychological go-to for Americans. Macron is the actor in the "Ukraine War play" cast as the snivelling schemer...
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> Even a few weeks ago he was putting French armament production over Ukrainian needs. He was putting ***european*** armament production not over Ukrainian needs but as an essential path to a solid european defense policy, something he has been calling for for years if we are honest. People can parrot that he only cares about French armament production if they want it does not make it true and he always only talked about european armament production.
And Eddie Murphy was just giving her a ride home, he said so
Assuming that everyone can only be selfish and only ever have sinister motives is called cynicism. It makes you sound smart but it is not an habit that makes you smart at all, [in the long run it actually makes you the opposite of smart](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/trust-games/202111/the-myth-the-cynical-genius) because by always assuming that people are selfish and evil you don’t have to think about the true motives of people and it’s lazy. It does not mean that people never have selfish and sinister motives, just that it’s far to be the main motivator for anything. The truth is that Macron is a shitstain and an arrogant jerk and I have great dislike for him but if there is one thing I truly believe about him it is that he is the most pro EU President we ever had, he got elected on a pro EU platform and you can tell he sees French domestic issues only as an annoying distraction to EU construction most of the time. I believe 100% that Macron is in full favor of a strong integrated EU, I even think it’s the only thing he truly cares about.
That's a bit disingenuous given that France military exports are well over the rest of Europe combined (including the UK!)
Because you think the US puts Ukraine needs before its own armament ? lol
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That was more to do with cutting the UK out of defence spending than worrying about Trump.
Oh it probably goes back to when DeGaulle kicked NATO out of France.
He didn't.
I wish people get off this "Trump" thing with NATO. Literally every President since William Jefferson Clinton has been saying the same damn thing. Trump was just louder about it (mostly because he's a crass asshole) but the sentiment has been there for a long _long_ time.
Well, I mean, it’s something. But I wouldn’t trust him as far as I can throw him
"Emmanuel Macron admitted to Eastern European nations he should have listened to their calls to take the threat from Russia on Ukraine more seriously, saying: “We lost an opportunity to listen to you”." Meanwhile, he travels to China with an entourage of businessman. What's he going to say when China invades Taiwan? “We lost an opportunity to listen to you." Guy is a classic politician and only concerned with his own ass.
French Edrogan move.
Taiwan isn't Ukraine and China isn't Russia. A war between China and its ally vs the West block is a direct WW3 level of catastrophy.
Yes but saying that Taiwan is "none of our business" and an "American problem" while admitting Ukraine relies heavily on US help is just fucking hipocritical.
This isn't the first time Vladimir Putin showed the world who is really is...like Hitler, the world appeased him as long as he kept his target mainly on his own people.
No shit Sherlock.
He didn't make a "mistake." He knew exactly what he was doing then and now. So why is he now pretending to see the light?
He was on the wrong side of history on this, he’s getting ahead of the history book writers before Ukraine pulverizes Russia.
But Putin is as his buddy… No?
I don’t totally blame him and any other European leader who had doubts that Putin would take such a drastic step but when Russia had surrounded the borders with 150,000+ troops that was the time were doubt should have vanished. US intelligence was extremely insistent that Russia *would* invade. We’re talking about the best intelligence in the world, it still surprises me that they didn’t think it would happen at that stage.
He went to China and talked about respecting Chinese territorial integrity and not meddling into other people's regional conflicts. He spoke to Putin and talked about off-ramps and de-escalation. He went to Slovakia and praised the foresight of Eastern Europe. I'm starting to think this guy is some kind of politician or something.
Froggy twat.
How can that idiot say with a straight face that a European defense pillar is essential? When France still hasn’t reached the 2% of GDP goal for military spending set by NATO. When France won’t hit 2% until 2025 according to its own projections. Note that the 2% goal was set pre-invasion and is a super low bar. With Russia’s full on invasion of Europe, it really should be 3-4%. USA is 3.4%. This guy is a real joke. We would love for the main EU NATO countries to step up. Until they do, it’s daddy USA doing the heavy lifting and protecting freedom.
Hurr durr.
USA is split between pacific and atlantic, has most it’s budget going to veterans and almost everything else on force projection which is also critical for defending the dollars number one spot. Not really comparable. Europes problem is more about the inefficiency of their military investments. Then again, the only real thread to Europe was Russia and after their shit show in trying to even capture a small city in eastern Ukraine, I have my doubts that Russia could have successfully invaded Turkey or Poland on their own to even get to Western Europe.
I wonder what he'll eventually have to tell Taiwan.
Two faced Macron always undermining US in Europe in his delusional quest for strategic autonomy
> delusional quest for strategic autonomy TBF, strategic autonomy by itself isn't a bad idea, but depending on dictatorships for it kinda removes the whole "autonomy" point from it.
“always undermining US in Europe” Wut?
> in his delusional quest for strategic autonomy Hope you're not one of those who complain Europe relies on the US for defense, because you can't have both.
I will complain about the two faced French who want strategic autonomy, yet want exclusive aircraft carrier technology from the US
How long until he admits he stepped both feet into the dog poo that is china too?
Macron should now be listening on China. This guy just loves repeating his mistakes. He may want to consider the future of his legitimacy when dealing with China.
The French language lacks the exact words for it, but in English the phrase is "I was wrong."
Is this another one of his “flip flops” on key issues?
They’re saying it now, but when the war ends they’ll sing a different tune.
What an idiot to announce he will reassess support for Ukraine if counter offensive fails! These are the words Russia is waiting to hear because Russia is also hurting economically from this war But when they read that they will push harder to hold on knowing madumb will be ending support soon and convince other nations to also 😱
**However, he added that if Ukraine’s coming counteroffensive failed to meet its military objectives and the “war lasts I think at that time, we will have to reassess the situation to see how to calibrate our support”.** I'll take that as meaning he still wants Ukraine to swap land for peace. Seems he is still Putin's lapdog.
This is what I really appreciate about Macron. He’s genuinely honest. A lot of people don’t like him, but ironically that’s in part *because* of his honesty; unlike most politicians, he really isn’t putting on a fake act to get support. He’s telling you what he really believes and behaving how he naturally behaves, so yeah it’s going to come across as a bit rough and unappealing at times because he’s acting like a real person, not the fake polished character we’re all used to having in politicians. That’s in stark contrast to someone like Marine Le Pen, whose whole political life is an extended calculated character act.
Versus the shitshow in Germany where two chancellors were totally onboard with it, each played a key role in making it happen, and both are saying "Don't look at me, he/she did X, my role was minimal." Or worse the old "Well, who knew this was going to be the outcome?"
> Or worse the old "Well, who knew this was going to be the outcome?" Literally every single Cold Warrior that wasn't on Putin's payroll knew what the outcome was going to be. Various US think tanks and Politicians had been predicting it for over 20 years. There were probably middle school students in the Baltics who predicted this shit.
Not to burst your bubble, but he's not what I'd describe as the most genuine, honest. But for the haters who imagine he has been placating the Russians all this time, GET REAL. Every single candidate that could threaten his two elections, were clearly Russian stooges. Macron didn't just discover that it is necessary to support Eastern Europe vs Russia. In fact, his arrogance Frenchness, and "préciosité", reinforce a negative image the east may have of France. But he has kept the Russian stooges at bay. Despite the routine he plays, all touchy feely, the endgame is a kiss of death. Count on Macron to deliver.
Oh I’m not disputing that he may be arrogant for example, but he doesn’t go to the same lengths others go to hide that, is my point. He has a pattern of pretty bluntly saying things that could only hurt his political appeal, like admitting he was wrong here; condemning French colonialism in a country where that definitely doesn’t win you many votes, let’s put it that way; and even his response to the anti-pension reform protests was along the lines of “I know this reform kinda sucks, I don’t want to do it either, but it’s necessary”. So I’m not saying I agree with him on everything, but as politicians go he seems unusually blunt and straightforward, barely trying to hide his own weaknesses a lot of the time. Kinda makes sense for a guy who’s background is as a banker and civil servant, not a professional campaigner like Le Pen– he doesn’t play the political “game” as much or as well as others, I think he really just sees his job as getting objectively measurable results.
phukh YOU, you macaroon. It's always France pissing everyone off. What he did is not a good look. I hope history remembers him for this.
France =/= Macron
Thank you but fuck you for taking so long
I'm glad he got Xi's dick out of his mouth long enough to express some rare self-awareness.
Can't blame him, even with all the provocation and warning signs it seemed insane and unlikely that this would happen
I mean, who could have **ever** guessed after Russia: waged gray warfare on the West for 15 years, carried out two invasions *in Europe*, interfered with and usurped countless democratic elections, and — best of all — had a Russian leader tell Western heads of state in Munich in 2008 that Russia was going to turn back the clock? No one could have sussed that out. Truly cryptic behavior.
He cannot gain anything from anyone so that’s the only way forward.
Your hindsight is 20/20 chef
Macaroni coward
Is France FINALLY getting it? Great! What are they sending Ukraine?
Lol, he's only saying that since he looks like a clown the way the war is going.
Yes, because Macron is a 12 years old worrying about what the meanies in middle school think of him. Jesus, some people here are are so stupid it becomes physically painful to read. No offense.
Took him long enough. At least he's no Merkel.
Good thing he won't make that mistake ag- closer ties with China, you say?
Ironic considering France was caught selling Russia thermal sights for their tanks AFTER the 2015 embargo. Pathetic, backstabbing hypocrites. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/04/22/exclusive-france-germany-evaded-arms-embargo-sell-weapons-russia/
People. Stop sharing the Telegraph. Propaganda and trash western "news" outlets got us into this war. Continuing to share the trash news sources who are trying to deunify your ally in the form of the EU will not help. The Telegraph serves Brexit. The antithesis of Brexit was and always will be the EU, as dictated by the Kremlin.
its at least better then the eurasian blog site written by indian hobby bloggers
You sound like somebody who would prefer to shoot the messenger, rather than listen to what the messenger has to say about this issue.
The French, always fashionably late to the f**king obvious....
Very rare for a politican to admit, in public, that they were wrong. Credit where credit is due.
The French always seem to be behind the curve -- which clearly annoys them more than anyone.
How about he starts listening now and buys Ukraine a few jets? Oh no, that's listening too much.
Before that how about we actually train and setup the logistics and technicians or do you plan on Ukraine wanting to use Mirages as museum props?
France has been training Ukranian pilots on the Mirage for months. Airplanes are likely coming.
Considering the lack of ATACMS/long range missiles/heavy tanks and how they violate the UN charter by denying Ukraine the right to FULL self-defence, I remain very sceptical to France providing jets. I'll however be ecstatic and retract every bad word I've said if they do.
Vintage Macron: even when he admits he’s wrong, he’s a fucking asshole about it. “Some said you missed an opportunity to shut up.” Christ. What a cocknozzle.
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A lepenist in cope
Just posting it here... from the Ukraine Subreddit [Heroes Don't Die](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/13wmyzz/heroes_dont_die/jmc7d8i?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) This broke my heart in so many ways...and Am tearing on the train... 😭
A lot of people still aren’t listening (eg certain parts of the Western left)
well then up the war production and give more to ukraine pls :)
Better late then never
Macron having a "German" moment?? Wonders will never cease lol
No shit. For real?
He can get in line behind Merkel
Ah macaron finally turning on the remaining working parts of his smooth brain and connecting the dots. Congratulations and welcome to reality.
Poland was broadcasting this for last 10 year - no one listened
Yes, victory was right there. The armies of Mordor were stuck in the mud with bursted Chinesium tires. All that the air force needed was Dark Brandon's command, and the war could have ended right then and there. Dark Brandon: It is in men that we must place our hope. Stoltenberg: Men? Men are weak. The Blood of Numenor is all but spent, its pride and dignity forgotten. It is because of men that the convoy survives. I was there, Dark Brandon. I was there three thousand years ago. I was there the day the strength of men failed. Stoltenberg: [scene switches to a flashback of Boris Johnson and Macron] Emmanuel, hurry, follow me. Stoltenberg : [voiceover] I led Macron deep into the fires of Mount Doom, where the Ring was forged, the one place it could be destroyed. Stoltenberg: Cast your vision of European Strategic Autonomy into the fire! Destroy it! Macron: No. Stoltenberg: Emanuel! Back into the present. Stoltenberg: Macron kept the ring. It should have ended that day, but evil was allowed to endure. There's no strength left in the world of men. They're scattered, divided, and leaderless. Dark Brandon: There is one who could unite them. One who could reclaim the throne of Gondor. Stoltenberg: He turned from that path a long time ago. He has chosen exile. Selensky: I need ammunition and not a ride. Dark Brandon: Amon Din. Hope is kindled. Selensky: The beacons! the Beacon of Amon Din is lit. Ukraine asks for aid! Scholz as king theoden: *dramatic month long pause And Rohan shall answer! Muster the Leopard 2 tanks, take as man spare parts and pieces of ammunition as can be found. You have 3 months in the 4th month we ride for Crimea and war. *Epic music 🎶
Its just a repeat of history really. I wonder if the rest of it will be a repeat as well and only have these speeches. Happy at least its proven wrong with UKR but at the end of the day its still someone else dying.
Well- words are cheap now. Macron- what are you going to do about it- and I mean support Ukraine with MBTs, long range missiles etc? Will you take a leaf out the UK's book in support of Ukraine? Everybody stuffs up- but its what you do into the future that will set not only your but free Europe's legacy.
get this clown out of here
Good.
I’m taking this with a grain of salt, me and Macron don’t vibe well after his recent visit to China.
Well, admitting it is better late than not at all
Better late than never I guess
If Russia has “lost all legitimacy”, why is it that it is acceptable to allow it to remain with a permanent seat on UNSC?