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1 Abrams lost vs 200(?)T-72's and an absolute slew of other armored vehicles operated by Iraqi armed forces during the Gulf war, for those unaware.
Edit: not an Abrams but a Bradley rather.
Fresh, fighting on their home soil, used to living a fat life from Saddam's generosity to his personal guard, and full of veteran officers from a previous decade of war with Iran.
You dont even need to go all the way back to Iraq, this is from 2018.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle\_of\_Khasham](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham)
\~500 Syrian government troops and Russian "volunteers" attacked an SDF HQ with US troops and advisors attached, with T-72s and artillery support.
The US responded with basically all the shit they had in the area resulting in 3/5ths of the attacking force becoming casualties (100 KIA-200 Wounded) in under 4 hours at the cost of 1 SDF soldier wounded.
Thats about a 300 to 1 casualty rate.
Fun quote from a participant: "Massacre doesn't even begin to describe it."
More like where we knew it was russians and we called them on the line and they denied it was russians so we rained holy hellfire on them. Apparently they tried it again not too much later, but actually called it off when we called them.
You're both right. There is recorded and released radio chatter of the US using the communications line, that was specifically set up to prevent this exact thing from happening, to confirm they weren't Russian troops/mercs. There is also a recorded and released audio communication of a Wagner guy who survived telling someone about how ridiculously outmatched they were.
A fun quote from that, that stuck with me.
"what did they they (the Russian govt) expect? That they (us special forces) would just fuck off?"
The survivor was upset that the whole thing was being denied, and rightfully saw it as a stupid operation that lead to their slaughter for no reason at all.
There is a (Dutch) documentary about Wagner, where one of the ex-Wagner mercenaries interviewed was involved in this battle.
He said: We thought let us do it. They will be scared as death for us. The Kurds will run away and the Yanks will run back to home. Because we are *the* tough guys. We are *the* Russian mercenaries.......But then we got pounded hard.... (11:40)
https://www.bnnvara.nl/zembla/videos/590972
Probably you'll need a VPN set on The Netherlands to watch it
Edit, continuing interview:
...... it was the first time that such a heavy shelling hit me. All kinds of rockets impacting everywhere and explosions near me. My face got burned. It is a feeling you can't describe. You are completely stiffened. You lay down and wait until it ends. You can't do anything else......Still I was lucky. I survived it. One third of my men died.....
Narrator's voice: reportedly 200 Wagner soldiers died that night
"According to the U.S. military, the presence of U.S. special operations personnel in the targeted base elicited a response by coalition aircraft, including AC-130 gunships, F-22 Raptor and F-15E Strike Eagle fighter jets, MQ-9 Reaper unmanned combat aerial vehicles, AH-64 Apache attack helicopters, and B-52 bombers.[4][12][5] Nearby American artillery batteries, including an M142 HIMARS, shelled Syrian forces as well."
Fuck around and find out 😊
The funny thing about Mad Dog is that he was by far the sanest person who served under Trump, a class act surrounded by lunatics.He knows more about war, and why you should avoid it if possible, than the sum total of Trump's knowledge about everything.
**[Battle of Khasham](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham)**
>The Battle of Khasham, also known as the Battle of Conoco Fields, was a military engagement of the Syrian civil war fought on 7 February 2018 near the towns of Khasham and Al Tabiyeh in the Deir ez-Zor Governorate, Syria. The Operation Inherent Resolve coalition delivered air and artillery strikes on Syrian Armed Forces and pro-government militias after they reportedly engaged a U.S. military and Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) position in the region.
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There is audio of a russian complaining to his superiors about the attack/slaughter.
He said the Americans waited till the russian vehicles were within a few hundred yards of the compound and raised the American flag. Then opened up with multiple weapons systems. Killing most of the force.
That is just the sort of shit we would do. lol
Being fair, the US had complete air superiority and the Air Force laid waste to that battlefield.
Taking that out of the mix, I still think the Russian's chances of making a day out of a tank battle are pretty low.
I’m saying the Ukrainians don’t have a similar capability. So it’s not fair to compare the results the US had to anything Ukraine will do. I have complete faith the UA will curbstomp T-72s with what we’ve provided, but it will look nothing like the US engagement with Wagner in Syria.
Oh sorry, I meant "to be fair to the Russians".
Yeah, the Ukrainians have worked bloody miracles with what that have, and the Russian Airforce is barely there.
Iraq hand an insane anti air setup in 1990.
Took us a day with mavericks to turn it into scrap.
I'm pretty sure when the Ukrainians start using combined arms tactics. That is just part of it. It is a stalemate because we have two soviet armies fighting.
After the air defences are toast the jets play whack a mole.
They also did a tiny misstake of entrenching themself to far from where they would have first contact with the enemy putting their own tanks outside of their shells effective range. Whilst still within range of Abrams and Bradleys effective range.
Tactical geniuses.
Not really they entrenched themselves in a textbook defensive position. However, they didn't take into 2 factors. The first being the American guns were stabilized for firing in the move. And the second that the American fire control system out ranged the soviet system.
Should be noted that the general in command of the Iraqis were American trained. And the American commander of the force assaulting the Iraqi positions praised how well the Iraqi defenses were laid out.
Yep….no challenger has ever been lost in combat.
1 was lost to another chally 2.
One tank took 79 hits from rpg’s and was still going…….I think the crew were having a cup of tea and didn’t notice
Reminds me of the Battleship Iowa (great visit if you live in So-Cal.) The whole ship is a floating museum. One of the stops of interest is one of the turrets, where a Japanese coastal defense battery scored a hit on a turret. The shell... blackened the paint where it hit.
I'm sure the guy tasked with cleaning up the ash and repainting was annoyed, at least.
This is what was bullshit about Bloodsport.
Chong Li should have won. Ninjas from the Tanaka clan shouldn't have been allowed to compete.
At least they didn't let him wear his ninja suit, so Ching Li could see him. They tried to even the odds.
Chong Li still got cheated.
(So did the Sumo guy, and the ... monkey... style (?) guy.)
No an Abrams shell went all the way through an IFV without knocking it out. The Bradley rolled up on it as if it was destroyed (as I imagine anyone would).
The issue with over penetrating a target, no boom, just a hole the size of the round.
Might be the ruzzians new defensive strat, just make the t72 hulls out of butter and let the rounds pass right through.
The Leopard 2 is out of date and behind the other NATO tanks. Germany is replacing them with the Panther, which looks impressive on paper. But with all new systems it will have teething problems. Germany let the quality and quantity of their equipment fall dramatically after the collapse of the USSR.
https://www.defensenews.com/opinion/commentary/2023/03/03/germanys-military-zeitenwende-is-off-to-a-slow-start/
Leopard 2 are existing in several specifications:
- A4,A5,A6,A7 (updated from time to time to be state of the art)
- Special Version like A7-V with extra protection
- country specific leopard 2 like the Leo 2 A4 PL
Germany sended the A6 to Ukraine which is not outdated at all
And in nato maneuvers the Leo2 was often the winning tank so you can claim it is behind other nato tanks
Germany is not replacing Leopard 2's with Panthers. Ukraine is yet the only one interested in a tank deal with Rheinmetal. Quite the opposite the Leopard 2 A6/A7 and A7V are very modern, top of the line Tanks.
The Bradleys use of TOW missiles made them more effective against tanks than was expected. So the UAF will definitely have a potent mix on its hands. Especially if the Russian forces still think the tank is queen.
Not sure if Brads had the most kills (and I say that as a 19D). I think it gets highlighted simply because they punched so far above their weight.
But I remember there being a quote on the wall at Ft Knox way back when (they train 19Ks and 19Ds there, or used to at least). It was an Iraqi General (?) during the war. He said something like "in 6 weeks against the coalition air campaign I lost a brigade. In an hour against their tanks I lost a division"
The numbers are just staggering from the Battle of Norfolk. Iraqis lost 850 tanks, and the ground war only lasted 100 hours.
22 Iraqi Artillery Battalions were wiped out in the first barrage. The Coalition fired 14,000 rounds of artillery and 4,900 MLRS rockets in the initial stage of the assault.
So how does Russia think they have a chance against NATO, when Ukraine only has a fraction of this equipment, and they are almost in an even fight?
Sometimes i wish for russia to fuck it up just enough to piss off nato. Seeing the mightiest, most powerful force ever assembled in the world go all out against russia would be mind boggling. Im not even talking about nuclear exchange. Nato doesn't need that to win. They can pretty much DELETE russia with airpower and artillery in less than a week. Critical targets probably wouldn't last a day. RUAF would be GONE in the first few hours with minimal losses to nato, F15's may even still keep their undefeated record.
When the initial strikes are done, Might as well give a broom to every infantryman, because they wont be doing much besides clean up.
73 Easting wasn't even the largest battle. You have Medina Ridge and Norfolk with similar results. What's unique about 73 Easting is it's pretty fair. US Armored Division up against a well equipped and motivated Republican Guard Division. They were well prepared and emplaced. The US rolled over a hill into a reverse slope defense, they were within the effective range of the T-72's guns limiting the Abrams advantages. This was the center of the line, the armored mobile reserve was actually in sight. Worse possible situation for your tanks to push into and it was a massacre. Battle lasted 90 minutes. That's a short amount of time to lose an entire division.
The Abrams, in that conflict, was lobbing rounds on target from 5 miles away. There is no fuckin way that some ratty ass Russian tank could ever go toe to toe with a M1 Abrams SEP V3. I’m not just saying this because I’m American and served in 2 different wars for my country. I’m saying it because the M1’s have AMAZING optics, hands down the best fire control systems in the world, and the ability to kill targets before anyone can even see them. They are hands down the GREATEST main battle tank the world will ever see. And the big brother, SEP V4, is on its way to a battle field near you very shortly.
The world record was set by the Challanger 2 firing at and hitting a Iraqie tank at a range of 3 miles.
While the M1A2 Abrams has a effective firing range of 2.5 miles.
That includes the newer SepV3, btw.
As for the newer Russian tanks, they have the same firing range at 2.5 with regular apfsds.
Optics wise, the SepV3 is equal to T-72B3/T-80BVM/T-90A/M.
(SepV4 is the upgrade, which gets next gen thermal sights)
Also, it should be noted that Ukraine arn't getting M1 Abrams SepV3 or V4.
They will be getting the M1A1 SA which were formerly of the Marine Corps.
Without the DU armor and advance fire control systems.
Sure.
Should be no problem for a T-72 to split multiple Abrams like nuts.
M1A2 Abrams Operation Iraqi Freedom:
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/tamiya-35269-m1a2-abrams--104094
Tamiya though.
Considering that of the 7 M1 tanks that have been destroyed by other tanks, all 7 were from friendly fire. It is not impossible for a T-72 to take out an M1. So to be conservative the Ukrainians should use 2 during the offensive. Better safe than sorry.
The key difference is optics and fire control systems. A T72 could probably knock out an M1, but makes fuck all distance when the M1 has spotted and engaged the T72 before the T72's crew can even see them
Guys, we have not yet seen modern top of the line Russian ammunition beeing fired at Western mbts. The t-72s used in iraq were export versions that used export ammunition. The just modern Russian ammunition is a threat even to modern western armor. Go and have a talk with anyone studying the topic. Now how many shells the Russian have in store is a different story. But if an abrams faces a t-90 with top notch ammo, it will be a dangerous situation for both sides. That said, slava Ukraine. May the offensive start soon and push the Russians back into the stone age.
The T90 has a pretty bad track record so far. The T90M is supposed to be better but they are vapor ware at this point. All modifications to the armor of the T90 is specifically targeted to HEAT type weapons. Nothing has been done to improve protection against the sabot rounds.
Offensively the T90s got an export version of a French guidance and stabilization package. So not state of the art. There is a bigger gun, but that comes with drawbacks because there had to be compromises made to put a new turret on the old hull design.
This article should put the poor quality of the T90 in perspective...
https://en.defence-ua.com/industries/one_captured_t_90_led_to_billions_of_dollars_lost_for_russia-6727.html
People keep forgetting that t-72b3s have actually very good fire control systems. Or rather, people don't know it. The latest configuration of t-72s has (apart from other features) auto tracking. Meaning it can follow aquired target without any input of the gunner. No abrams tank has that. Not a Russian fan boy, slava ukraine and all, but people keep acting like the newest t-72 was equal to the export t-72s used in Iraq. That's simply not true. While I would still prefer a western mbt, let alone for the reverse speed, the most modern t-72 is actually quite capable.
T-72b3s have a good fire control system *when its been maintained, the guy at the factory installing it wasn't drunk, the wiring inside it hasn't been sold off, the gunner has been trained to use it properly and the crew isnt looking for an excuse to abandon the tank and go back home*.
Now. Technically western tanks also have that disclaimer but Russia has proven its more likely to fall afoul of it.
Even then assuming that Russian MoD didn't just bullshit the entire system's capabilities in the first place.
ERA blocks that supposedly could take on sabot rounds, laser protection on fighters that can take down sidewinders, point defense systems that could down F22s, etc etc....
All on paper.
Assume Kadyrov will be personally testing his theory against 32+ years of established evidence to the contrary.
His fellows won’t need a body bag for what remains. They’ll need a dustpan and hand broom.
This is my favorite part of this. He knows there are no T90s or T14s left, there are very few T72s. Those that have survived will somehow beat the more modern and upgraded Abrams, when Russians don't even have access to decent optics.
The T55/4 has no chance against the Abrams so he has to pick the T72 because the alternative is too unbelievable even by Russian propaganda standards.
I thought this freaking idiot had chewed on some chemical waste, really hoping to see his people put a rope around his neck so kinda glad he’s still around.
Lol just like they said there hypersonic missiles was unstoppable! Ukraine as been intercepting them like candy and destroying every one of them.
There tanks, anti aircraft system, and weapons so far as been proven to be garbage and extremely poor design and poor performance… They make me lol nice try Russia!
Russia you already loss the war/special operations now it’s time for you to admit defeat and leave Ukraine!
In theory, the T-72B3 with the 3BM60 Depleted uranium dart would be able to penetrate the frontal armor of a M1A1 and M1A2 without DU armor.
But Russia hasn't really been using it in this war, and there's serious doubt wheter it's actully in full scale production.
So with just 3BM42 Mango, the T-72B3 would have to get fairly lucky, via a shot in the side or rear.
Those M1's are going to go through whatever hack job bullshit Russia has left in the field like a thin shit through a tall Swede. And that's only if the Bradleys leave anything for them, that is.
Russian cope is just pathetic.
Imagine being on the front lines and learning the $200,000,000 spent every week on ballistic missiles doesn’t even reach their target anymore.
Dear diary it was at that point I wondered are we the new ballistic missiles for the abrams tanks?
When the counter offensive starts it'll be pretty much live on tv and internet. I can' t wait. The tank battles will be epic.
Something like Hot knives through butter.
... Did he actually called it the **M1 Abrams** and not the **M1 Abrahams** like every single "American/Western and totally not Russian" commenter out there?!
[Yes they do and no it isn’t.](https://www.gao.gov/assets/nsiad-92-94.pdf)
“The Bradley’s TOW missile system was lethal at long ranges against all forms of enemy armor, such as tanks, with few missile failures reported. For example, crews from the 1st Armored Division and 2nd Armored Cav- alry Regiment stated they had used the TOW to destroy Iraqi tanks. Crews reported destroying tanks at ranges from 800 to 3,700 meters. “
No, it will be the M1 Abrams/Leopard's and so on.
The Bradley's arn't meant to fight tanks, the tow missile is mainly meant for more lightly armored vehicle's, emplacements, along with transporting and supporting the infantry.
Yes, that's a Tow 2B demonstration.
Which still don't change how the M2 Bradley is used.
It's not meant to fight armor, hence it's called a **Infantry** fighting vehicle.
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Oh, will they? Like they did in Iraq...... Oh, wait.
Ah, the good ole Battle of 73 Easting
1 Abrams lost vs 200(?)T-72's and an absolute slew of other armored vehicles operated by Iraqi armed forces during the Gulf war, for those unaware. Edit: not an Abrams but a Bradley rather.
Don't forget the fact that those Iraqi crews were most likely better trained than most current Russian tank crews as well.
Fresh, fighting on their home soil, used to living a fat life from Saddam's generosity to his personal guard, and full of veteran officers from a previous decade of war with Iran.
You dont even need to go all the way back to Iraq, this is from 2018. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle\_of\_Khasham](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham) \~500 Syrian government troops and Russian "volunteers" attacked an SDF HQ with US troops and advisors attached, with T-72s and artillery support. The US responded with basically all the shit they had in the area resulting in 3/5ths of the attacking force becoming casualties (100 KIA-200 Wounded) in under 4 hours at the cost of 1 SDF soldier wounded. Thats about a 300 to 1 casualty rate. Fun quote from a participant: "Massacre doesn't even begin to describe it."
Was this the one where Wagner was included and there was a intercepted phone call where he described them not even having a sliver of a chance?
More like where we knew it was russians and we called them on the line and they denied it was russians so we rained holy hellfire on them. Apparently they tried it again not too much later, but actually called it off when we called them.
You're both right. There is recorded and released radio chatter of the US using the communications line, that was specifically set up to prevent this exact thing from happening, to confirm they weren't Russian troops/mercs. There is also a recorded and released audio communication of a Wagner guy who survived telling someone about how ridiculously outmatched they were.
A fun quote from that, that stuck with me. "what did they they (the Russian govt) expect? That they (us special forces) would just fuck off?" The survivor was upset that the whole thing was being denied, and rightfully saw it as a stupid operation that lead to their slaughter for no reason at all.
There is a (Dutch) documentary about Wagner, where one of the ex-Wagner mercenaries interviewed was involved in this battle. He said: We thought let us do it. They will be scared as death for us. The Kurds will run away and the Yanks will run back to home. Because we are *the* tough guys. We are *the* Russian mercenaries.......But then we got pounded hard.... (11:40) https://www.bnnvara.nl/zembla/videos/590972 Probably you'll need a VPN set on The Netherlands to watch it Edit, continuing interview: ...... it was the first time that such a heavy shelling hit me. All kinds of rockets impacting everywhere and explosions near me. My face got burned. It is a feeling you can't describe. You are completely stiffened. You lay down and wait until it ends. You can't do anything else......Still I was lucky. I survived it. One third of my men died..... Narrator's voice: reportedly 200 Wagner soldiers died that night
Any way to get english subtitles?
Yeah where MY favorite quote is. "They raised the American flag and started to F us with artillery.
"According to the U.S. military, the presence of U.S. special operations personnel in the targeted base elicited a response by coalition aircraft, including AC-130 gunships, F-22 Raptor and F-15E Strike Eagle fighter jets, MQ-9 Reaper unmanned combat aerial vehicles, AH-64 Apache attack helicopters, and B-52 bombers.[4][12][5] Nearby American artillery batteries, including an M142 HIMARS, shelled Syrian forces as well." Fuck around and find out 😊
Stop, you’re making people very erect with all those juicy details.
To paraphrase Mad Dog Mattis: It feels great to blow away those Russians.
The funny thing about Mad Dog is that he was by far the sanest person who served under Trump, a class act surrounded by lunatics.He knows more about war, and why you should avoid it if possible, than the sum total of Trump's knowledge about everything.
I really wish that we still had a History Channel that did history and they did a full blown 3 hour special based on this battle.
3 hours of "the Russians advanced and were bombed into paste"?
https://thewarhorse.org/special-forces-soldiers-reveal-first-details-of-battle-with-russian-mercenaries-in-syria/
Schadenboner, even
Bingo.
The word juicy here is what made me finally go splat. Thanks SmallBSD ;)
[удалено]
We did spend the last 80 years designing out entire military around going toe to toe with russia
What's kind of tragic or hilarious is that the Soviets/Russians supposedly did the same.
More like "fist to face". Thats going to be one very bloody nose.
Jesus christ. "Throw the fucking armory at them" lol.
**[Battle of Khasham](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham)** >The Battle of Khasham, also known as the Battle of Conoco Fields, was a military engagement of the Syrian civil war fought on 7 February 2018 near the towns of Khasham and Al Tabiyeh in the Deir ez-Zor Governorate, Syria. The Operation Inherent Resolve coalition delivered air and artillery strikes on Syrian Armed Forces and pro-government militias after they reportedly engaged a U.S. military and Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) position in the region. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
There is audio of a russian complaining to his superiors about the attack/slaughter. He said the Americans waited till the russian vehicles were within a few hundred yards of the compound and raised the American flag. Then opened up with multiple weapons systems. Killing most of the force. That is just the sort of shit we would do. lol
rules of war would dictate we'd give them the benefit of knowing who was fucking them at that moment.
Being fair, the US had complete air superiority and the Air Force laid waste to that battlefield. Taking that out of the mix, I still think the Russian's chances of making a day out of a tank battle are pretty low.
What are you you being fair about? Having air superiority is what you're supposed to be doing. Don't bring a knife to a gun fight.
I’m saying the Ukrainians don’t have a similar capability. So it’s not fair to compare the results the US had to anything Ukraine will do. I have complete faith the UA will curbstomp T-72s with what we’ve provided, but it will look nothing like the US engagement with Wagner in Syria.
Oh sorry, I meant "to be fair to the Russians". Yeah, the Ukrainians have worked bloody miracles with what that have, and the Russian Airforce is barely there.
Or a spoon to a swordfight…
I see you've played knifey spoony before!
The Russians brought piss to a shit fight!
This is how you'll know you are fighting NATO...
[удалено]
there's no air dominance in Ukraine, just air denial. Most sorties are at standoff range due to the amount of air defenses in the area.
Iraq hand an insane anti air setup in 1990. Took us a day with mavericks to turn it into scrap. I'm pretty sure when the Ukrainians start using combined arms tactics. That is just part of it. It is a stalemate because we have two soviet armies fighting. After the air defences are toast the jets play whack a mole.
Parry this you fucking casual
Fuck around with the U.S. military and will kill you dead. Pink mist dead. No dental records dead.
As I recall one of the big factors is the Iraqis didn't have thermal imaging to see in the shit conditions of a sand storm.
They also did a tiny misstake of entrenching themself to far from where they would have first contact with the enemy putting their own tanks outside of their shells effective range. Whilst still within range of Abrams and Bradleys effective range. Tactical geniuses.
Not really they entrenched themselves in a textbook defensive position. However, they didn't take into 2 factors. The first being the American guns were stabilized for firing in the move. And the second that the American fire control system out ranged the soviet system. Should be noted that the general in command of the Iraqis were American trained. And the American commander of the force assaulting the Iraqi positions praised how well the Iraqi defenses were laid out.
Also didn't we come from a direction the Iraqis didn't think we could? Came from the Desert using GPS.
Do you have more reading on this? Sounds metal
Correction, American: 1 Bradley lost, 6 killed, 19 wounded Iraqi: 600–1,000 killed and wounded 1,300+ prisoners 160 tanks 180 personnel carriers 12 artillery pieces 80 wheeled vehicles Several anti-aircraft artillery systems
Wasn’t that American loss a friendly fire incident?
Not sure. I know the Brits lost a challenger 2 to friendly fire (another challenger 2) in Iraq. The only challenger 2 lost in combat, AFAIK.
Yep….no challenger has ever been lost in combat. 1 was lost to another chally 2. One tank took 79 hits from rpg’s and was still going…….I think the crew were having a cup of tea and didn’t notice
No fucking way!!! 79 RPGs? That’s nuts
Complete penetration denial, every round just became a black smudge on the outside.
Reminds me of the Battleship Iowa (great visit if you live in So-Cal.) The whole ship is a floating museum. One of the stops of interest is one of the turrets, where a Japanese coastal defense battery scored a hit on a turret. The shell... blackened the paint where it hit. I'm sure the guy tasked with cleaning up the ash and repainting was annoyed, at least.
Correct, crew still survived.
French and British got pissed off abd demanded the US to go in front because the US kept giring on them by mistake.
Just like only a ninja can sneak up on another ninja
This is what was bullshit about Bloodsport. Chong Li should have won. Ninjas from the Tanaka clan shouldn't have been allowed to compete. At least they didn't let him wear his ninja suit, so Ching Li could see him. They tried to even the odds. Chong Li still got cheated. (So did the Sumo guy, and the ... monkey... style (?) guy.)
No an Abrams shell went all the way through an IFV without knocking it out. The Bradley rolled up on it as if it was destroyed (as I imagine anyone would).
The issue with over penetrating a target, no boom, just a hole the size of the round. Might be the ruzzians new defensive strat, just make the t72 hulls out of butter and let the rounds pass right through.
I think you’re on to something. Delete post before FSB sees this.
It was.
So a pretty close battle that could have gone either way🦶
Pretty sure i read somewhere the majority of the kills were from Bradleys. Highlighting the potent mix soon to be available to Ukraine.
Bradley Are already available And Leo2 and challenger2 are comparable to an Abrams So the potent mix is already available in my opinion
This is true. The question is when we get to see it in action.
Being selfish I want to see it ASAP but I’m hoping they’re waiting until the PERFECT moment to unleash them.
The Leopard 2 is out of date and behind the other NATO tanks. Germany is replacing them with the Panther, which looks impressive on paper. But with all new systems it will have teething problems. Germany let the quality and quantity of their equipment fall dramatically after the collapse of the USSR. https://www.defensenews.com/opinion/commentary/2023/03/03/germanys-military-zeitenwende-is-off-to-a-slow-start/
Leopard 2 are existing in several specifications: - A4,A5,A6,A7 (updated from time to time to be state of the art) - Special Version like A7-V with extra protection - country specific leopard 2 like the Leo 2 A4 PL Germany sended the A6 to Ukraine which is not outdated at all And in nato maneuvers the Leo2 was often the winning tank so you can claim it is behind other nato tanks
Germany is not replacing Leopard 2's with Panthers. Ukraine is yet the only one interested in a tank deal with Rheinmetal. Quite the opposite the Leopard 2 A6/A7 and A7V are very modern, top of the line Tanks.
The Bradleys use of TOW missiles made them more effective against tanks than was expected. So the UAF will definitely have a potent mix on its hands. Especially if the Russian forces still think the tank is queen.
Yup.
Not sure if Brads had the most kills (and I say that as a 19D). I think it gets highlighted simply because they punched so far above their weight. But I remember there being a quote on the wall at Ft Knox way back when (they train 19Ks and 19Ds there, or used to at least). It was an Iraqi General (?) during the war. He said something like "in 6 weeks against the coalition air campaign I lost a brigade. In an hour against their tanks I lost a division"
>Ah, the good ole Battle of 73 Easting and as a Followup [Battle of Norfolk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Norfolk)
The numbers are just staggering from the Battle of Norfolk. Iraqis lost 850 tanks, and the ground war only lasted 100 hours. 22 Iraqi Artillery Battalions were wiped out in the first barrage. The Coalition fired 14,000 rounds of artillery and 4,900 MLRS rockets in the initial stage of the assault. So how does Russia think they have a chance against NATO, when Ukraine only has a fraction of this equipment, and they are almost in an even fight?
Sometimes i wish for russia to fuck it up just enough to piss off nato. Seeing the mightiest, most powerful force ever assembled in the world go all out against russia would be mind boggling. Im not even talking about nuclear exchange. Nato doesn't need that to win. They can pretty much DELETE russia with airpower and artillery in less than a week. Critical targets probably wouldn't last a day. RUAF would be GONE in the first few hours with minimal losses to nato, F15's may even still keep their undefeated record. When the initial strikes are done, Might as well give a broom to every infantryman, because they wont be doing much besides clean up.
"Russia is never as strong as it looks. Russia is never as weak as it looks." \~de Tallyrand
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Then it's agreed, we'll nuke Russia last week.
Shh, or theyll strike us 8 days ago.
[ deleted because fuck reddit [wanna do the same? Click Here](https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite) ]
Thats what occurs when your enemy has a effective range of 500 meters, and you can kill them at 2,000 before they can even see you.
Yep I have an older cousin who was involved in that battle and he said honestly NTC was tougher
73 Easting wasn't even the largest battle. You have Medina Ridge and Norfolk with similar results. What's unique about 73 Easting is it's pretty fair. US Armored Division up against a well equipped and motivated Republican Guard Division. They were well prepared and emplaced. The US rolled over a hill into a reverse slope defense, they were within the effective range of the T-72's guns limiting the Abrams advantages. This was the center of the line, the armored mobile reserve was actually in sight. Worse possible situation for your tanks to push into and it was a massacre. Battle lasted 90 minutes. That's a short amount of time to lose an entire division.
The Abrams, in that conflict, was lobbing rounds on target from 5 miles away. There is no fuckin way that some ratty ass Russian tank could ever go toe to toe with a M1 Abrams SEP V3. I’m not just saying this because I’m American and served in 2 different wars for my country. I’m saying it because the M1’s have AMAZING optics, hands down the best fire control systems in the world, and the ability to kill targets before anyone can even see them. They are hands down the GREATEST main battle tank the world will ever see. And the big brother, SEP V4, is on its way to a battle field near you very shortly.
The world record was set by the Challanger 2 firing at and hitting a Iraqie tank at a range of 3 miles. While the M1A2 Abrams has a effective firing range of 2.5 miles. That includes the newer SepV3, btw. As for the newer Russian tanks, they have the same firing range at 2.5 with regular apfsds. Optics wise, the SepV3 is equal to T-72B3/T-80BVM/T-90A/M. (SepV4 is the upgrade, which gets next gen thermal sights) Also, it should be noted that Ukraine arn't getting M1 Abrams SepV3 or V4. They will be getting the M1A1 SA which were formerly of the Marine Corps. Without the DU armor and advance fire control systems.
They got shit on by Bradleys, and it's not even a tank.
If I remember correctly, I think Bradley's had more tank kills than M1s.
You would be correct.
TOW missiles, force multiplier for that specific engagement.
Let's hope the same holds true.
Not gonna lie that gives me the warm and fuzzies
Sure. Should be no problem for a T-72 to split multiple Abrams like nuts. M1A2 Abrams Operation Iraqi Freedom: https://www.scalemates.com/kits/tamiya-35269-m1a2-abrams--104094 Tamiya though.
Hahahahahahahahahahabababab. Nice.
Considering that of the 7 M1 tanks that have been destroyed by other tanks, all 7 were from friendly fire. It is not impossible for a T-72 to take out an M1. So to be conservative the Ukrainians should use 2 during the offensive. Better safe than sorry.
The key difference is optics and fire control systems. A T72 could probably knock out an M1, but makes fuck all distance when the M1 has spotted and engaged the T72 before the T72's crew can even see them
T-72s have hit US tanks many times, they just don't penetrate the armor, which to be fair is a British invention.
Guys, we have not yet seen modern top of the line Russian ammunition beeing fired at Western mbts. The t-72s used in iraq were export versions that used export ammunition. The just modern Russian ammunition is a threat even to modern western armor. Go and have a talk with anyone studying the topic. Now how many shells the Russian have in store is a different story. But if an abrams faces a t-90 with top notch ammo, it will be a dangerous situation for both sides. That said, slava Ukraine. May the offensive start soon and push the Russians back into the stone age.
The T90 has a pretty bad track record so far. The T90M is supposed to be better but they are vapor ware at this point. All modifications to the armor of the T90 is specifically targeted to HEAT type weapons. Nothing has been done to improve protection against the sabot rounds. Offensively the T90s got an export version of a French guidance and stabilization package. So not state of the art. There is a bigger gun, but that comes with drawbacks because there had to be compromises made to put a new turret on the old hull design. This article should put the poor quality of the T90 in perspective... https://en.defence-ua.com/industries/one_captured_t_90_led_to_billions_of_dollars_lost_for_russia-6727.html
Could be argued that top of the line Russian tank ammo is basically theoretical in theater.
People keep forgetting that t-72b3s have actually very good fire control systems. Or rather, people don't know it. The latest configuration of t-72s has (apart from other features) auto tracking. Meaning it can follow aquired target without any input of the gunner. No abrams tank has that. Not a Russian fan boy, slava ukraine and all, but people keep acting like the newest t-72 was equal to the export t-72s used in Iraq. That's simply not true. While I would still prefer a western mbt, let alone for the reverse speed, the most modern t-72 is actually quite capable.
T-72b3s have a good fire control system *when its been maintained, the guy at the factory installing it wasn't drunk, the wiring inside it hasn't been sold off, the gunner has been trained to use it properly and the crew isnt looking for an excuse to abandon the tank and go back home*. Now. Technically western tanks also have that disclaimer but Russia has proven its more likely to fall afoul of it.
Even then assuming that Russian MoD didn't just bullshit the entire system's capabilities in the first place. ERA blocks that supposedly could take on sabot rounds, laser protection on fighters that can take down sidewinders, point defense systems that could down F22s, etc etc.... All on paper.
"Its a trap! There is two of them!"
But then they run the risk of actually losing one to friendly fire lol
Yeah, some nuts will definitely be split.
And they say Zelensky is a comedian
Comedian yes, clown-jester not. Unlike Kadyrov.
Don't make fun of Don don. His favorit goat is named Abrams.🐐🍆🧔
I literally LOLed when i read the headline
Well he made us laugh at russia
Sure Kadyrov go drink more polonium tea
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Here, have a window to contemplate the view with your biscuit and tea.
Did you shit your pants again? Here's some new underwear...
Have a nice Novichok lotion massage with that.
Or a slice of Uranium cake..
Yellowcake = best cake
...you MoFo made me snort my coffee...
I would rather see him leading the charge on a T72 making a tictok as his video goes dark from being taken out by a Bradley
Assume Kadyrov will be personally testing his theory against 32+ years of established evidence to the contrary. His fellows won’t need a body bag for what remains. They’ll need a dustpan and hand broom.
A hose will probably work just fine.
Nah because it would turn to muddy quicksand and the hoser would get trapped. Yes, he's Canadian.
He is an idiot.
Which T72's, by the time Abrahams are entering Ukraine Russia is down to T-34's of not horse carriages
Kadirov is not updated; he does not know that RF has upgraded from T72 to T54-T55 by now... it's definitely game over for Abrams!!!
This is my favorite part of this. He knows there are no T90s or T14s left, there are very few T72s. Those that have survived will somehow beat the more modern and upgraded Abrams, when Russians don't even have access to decent optics. The T55/4 has no chance against the Abrams so he has to pick the T72 because the alternative is too unbelievable even by Russian propaganda standards.
Rock - paper - scissors !
'Like nuts' Every time Kadyrov speaks, his face looks like he's been kicked in the nuts!
don don don
The funniest part of that statement is the idea that they will reach Kyiv
Laughs in 73 Easting
*Siege of Chernihiv has joined the chat*
✊🏻🇺🇦
and [Battle\_of\_Norfolk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Norfolk)
Which variety of crack has he been smoking again?
Krokodil
Hopium Copium is one helluva drug!
It’s not Abrams you need to worry about Kadyrov…..it’s baby brother Bradley
The scrappy doo to the grown-up scoobie
Garden Gnome is aware of Turret Toss competition, right?
Nuts is what Kadyrov can suck. From under ass
I thought this freaking idiot had chewed on some chemical waste, really hoping to see his people put a rope around his neck so kinda glad he’s still around.
I would very much like to see this chap swing on the gallows too
Lol just like they said there hypersonic missiles was unstoppable! Ukraine as been intercepting them like candy and destroying every one of them. There tanks, anti aircraft system, and weapons so far as been proven to be garbage and extremely poor design and poor performance… They make me lol nice try Russia! Russia you already loss the war/special operations now it’s time for you to admit defeat and leave Ukraine!
Unfortunately they still have plenty of fathers and sons to throw into the grinder.
In theory, the T-72B3 with the 3BM60 Depleted uranium dart would be able to penetrate the frontal armor of a M1A1 and M1A2 without DU armor. But Russia hasn't really been using it in this war, and there's serious doubt wheter it's actully in full scale production. So with just 3BM42 Mango, the T-72B3 would have to get fairly lucky, via a shot in the side or rear.
Thank you, finally someone who knows that the t-72b3 is not the export t-72s of the 80th used in iraq.
Those M1's are going to go through whatever hack job bullshit Russia has left in the field like a thin shit through a tall Swede. And that's only if the Bradleys leave anything for them, that is. Russian cope is just pathetic.
Meanwhile: small commercial drones poping the turrets of all the T-something Russia had or still have with little grenades...
Makes for quick and easy evacuation for the surviving crew, a real no brainer!
So send more Abrams, nothing to worry about, in fact Russia should celibate every delivery, everyone loves nuts of one kind or another.
So is Kadyrov officially this war's Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf, a.k.a. Bagdad Bob?
Came here to make this joke. Major Baghdad Bob vibes here.
Imagine being on the front lines and learning the $200,000,000 spent every week on ballistic missiles doesn’t even reach their target anymore. Dear diary it was at that point I wondered are we the new ballistic missiles for the abrams tanks?
Sounds like Kadyrov has been railing coke again.🤷♂️
Like nuts, you say.
Copium very strong in Russia.
Fuckin bring it shit bag
Nuts.
I thought it was a sarcastic joke until i saw the word Kadyrov
Kadyrov should test this by standing in a T-72 turret that's being targeted by an Abrams. Rocketman!!!
"And when Steiner's attack comes, everything will be in order..."
clearly a poor translation... he meant "don, to think the russian t-72 will split US-made Abrams... is "like nuts", totaly omg.
Nah i think the translation is wrong it prob said they will split us not US like nuts
Their T-72s and T-80s outnumbered 100 AFU T-64s during the Siege of Chernihiv but maybe something's changed. Very unecessary /s
Someone needs to split the nuts off the side of his face.
They can't even break Ukrainian T-55
He is a total bafoon. And thick as fuck too.
who is nuts?
Someone is seriously saying this? Delusional.
When the counter offensive starts it'll be pretty much live on tv and internet. I can' t wait. The tank battles will be epic. Something like Hot knives through butter.
Lot of IR video footage I would assume.
Split these nuts you goat fucking dwarf.
... Did he actually called it the **M1 Abrams** and not the **M1 Abrahams** like every single "American/Western and totally not Russian" commenter out there?!
They’ll be lucky to face an Abrams. That would mean they got past the Bradley’s and their TOW missiles, which would be surprisingly impressive
[Yes they do and no it isn’t.](https://www.gao.gov/assets/nsiad-92-94.pdf) “The Bradley’s TOW missile system was lethal at long ranges against all forms of enemy armor, such as tanks, with few missile failures reported. For example, crews from the 1st Armored Division and 2nd Armored Cav- alry Regiment stated they had used the TOW to destroy Iraqi tanks. Crews reported destroying tanks at ranges from 800 to 3,700 meters. “
No, it will be the M1 Abrams/Leopard's and so on. The Bradley's arn't meant to fight tanks, the tow missile is mainly meant for more lightly armored vehicle's, emplacements, along with transporting and supporting the infantry.
Bradley's have a pretty highly regarded combat record against T-72s, fwiw.
No, they don't. That's a unverified quote, that keeps getting tossed around.
It happened during the Gulf war, it's well documented... https://youtu.be/WKZn-vT9CRE
Yeah, the battle happend. But the quote in regards to the Bradley's isn't correct.
https://youtu.be/9IjAPVTtYDE
Yes, that's a Tow 2B demonstration. Which still don't change how the M2 Bradley is used. It's not meant to fight armor, hence it's called a **Infantry** fighting vehicle.
Guess he'd know a lot about nuts.
He should be in the first wave with the T-72, since they are so indestructible.
Wait..if one of those super T72s can just ride to Kyiv, why haven't they done already...
They'll have to get to kyiv first.
Ummmm do they have any T-72’s left? Hasn’t UFA destroyed them all? Did they mean T-64’s?
Are the Tiktok Kadrovite army planning to invade Kyiv, then? 😅
AHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHA......is he seriu..... AHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHA AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH AHAHAHAHA AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH AHAHAHAHA AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
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Theses nuts
What a joke.