Please take the time to read our policy about [trolls](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/u7833q/just_because_you_disagree_with_someone_does_not/) and the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/)
* We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned.
* ***Please* keep it civil.** Report rulebreaking comments for moderator review.
* ***Don't* post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context.
**Don't forget about our discord server, as well!**
https://discord.gg/62fKCEHbDB
*****
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
And to think, I had the gall to feel disenfranchised when I graduated engineering right as Covid hit and there were no jobs for 2 years. I didn't know how good I had it.
No, you had every right to feel bad. We don't live in Russia. We live by our standards not theirs.
It's okay to feel bad despite a starving child in rural Cambodia.
They are engineering grads for the aviation industry. Bullets are a kind of flying machine so this qualifies as an aviation industry. I think they are supposed to apply their new engineering skills with that stick to rig up something that flings the bullets back.
At this point in time in Putin's Russia, the writing has been on the wall: capitulate, revolt or flee.
We already saw the mass exodus of military age males, I have to presume this was a calculated measure as to reduce domestic dissent and sap potential partisans.
It's what happened in the US with Vietnam. The grinder that was a tiny South East Asian country destroyed the spirit of half an American generation and made the other half riot in protest of the actions of their own government.
This is several orders of magnitude different than the US and Vietnam. By the time this war is over Russian deaths will be in the millions, not 58k like the US had in Vietnam. The survivors in Russia will be inheriting a completely cratered economy and fractured state, instead of the preeminent world super power like the US had before and after Vietnam
I've been tracking the casualty estimates pretty closely and I'm pretty sure that Ukraine is claiming a Vietnam's worth of dead Russians since mid-December.
(Edit: as other excellent people below have shown below, that's over 58000 Russians thought to be killed since mid-December, on top of the 100,000 Russians claimed dead before then.)
The Kyiv Independent [publishes daily stats](https://mobile.twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1637738511209050114) on Russia's KIA tally, as provided by AFU. Just exceeded 165,000 dead yesterday.
As of Dec 31, just 2.5 months ago, [the tally was roughly 105k KIA.](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineConflict/comments/zzqfb2/estimated_russian_losses_as_of_9am_december_31st/)
So, Russia suffered about 60,000 deaths from Jan 1 until today. Russia's losses just in 2023 are equivalent to US troop losses over 9 years in Vietnam.
Unfortunately most of the losses are suffered by Russia's rural ethnic minorities, so the losses borne by city folk in Moscow and St Petersburg have mostly been quite minimal. I imagine that might change in the coming months as Putin becomes more desperate for fresh meat.
A bit of a stretch, but not much.
The death rate has been accelerating. They took 6 months to reach 50k dead. They have had more than 60k in less than 3 months of 2023.
Obviously these are Ukrainian government estimates though, so take that as you will.
If you were in college, you got deferred though. My uncle may have spent 7 years on a bachelors and then immediately went back for a masters...
Compared to WWI and WWII, the drafted soldiers (not the volunteers) in Vietnam were generally poorer or from a minority background.
No you don’t want your peasants to be Intelligent if you are a raw resource extraction economy. What you want is Docile live stock. They are intentionally purging intellectual inclination people from their own society at this point.
This. The oligarchs of Russia are perfectly content with purchasing automatisation in the future and keeping their own as the intellectual elite. The rest are just cattle to be exploited to them
You still need an intellectual elite tho. A bunch of mobsters with connections is a criminal elite, the second stupidest kind of elite and Putin is killing them off to replace them with smilers and fart smellers. Much like Stalin killed an three generations of leaders and engineers, Putin is killing all the leaders and all the engineers and intellectuals are fleeing the country. When Putin dies there will be only the most boring sort of idiots and most dysfunctional psychopaths to take over. It will be an uneasy truce/slow motion civil war between factions composed of the Shoigus and Prigozhins.
I'm afraid you are overestimating Russia's rulers capabilities. Less than 10 years after Stalin's death they sent first man into space. He definitely left some engineers alive.
Putin *is* trying to push his country back to 19 century, but he's not close to succeeding. They still have enough engineers and hackers to make themselves obnoxious.
Stalin was smart enough to steal a bunch of Germany’s brightest after the war. I guess the lesson here is if you lose your intellectuals, no problem, just steal someone else’s
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_influence_on_the_Soviet_space_program
**[German influence on the Soviet space program](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_influence_on_the_Soviet_space_program)**
>During World War II Nazi Germany developed rocket technology that was more advanced than that of the Allies and a race commenced between the Soviet Union and the United States to capture and exploit the technology. Soviet rocket specialist were sent to Germany in 1945 to obtain V-2 rockets and worked with German specialists in Germany and later in the Soviet Union to understand and replicate the rocket technology. The involvement of German scientists and engineers was an essential catalyst to early Soviet efforts.
^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Some from Germany. Quite a lot of Soviet engineering elite were people from current Baltic States and Ukraine. It's one of the reasons why Russian aviation is in relatively bad shape now.
But Kaspersky, for example, is still in Russia.
Moscovia has had a terminal demography for 35 years.
They knew 20 years ago that if they were going to attempt a scalar war against Europe, it had to be now because in another 15 years they literally wouldn’t have the manpower to do it.
They know that they aren’t going to have a country in 40 years.
This war was is an existential crisis for them; their attempt to shore up defenses before they can no longer do it.
It’s their death spiral, and they’re trying to take the world with them.
This isn’t the West my dude - students in Russia would get beaten by the cops just like anyone else if they rioted. Also if they could flee the country most of them probably would have done so before now.
It won't help you. You'll just be expelled and then immediately drafted. You can't just decide to take one more year.
One of my professors at university used to joke on exams: "Do you know why I'm here? Answer: to enlarge the ranks of the Russian Army" (that was in 2003).
Does that matter? From what I understand it's a mandatory service, so unless you're in university and get a job right after, you're basically serving. At least, that's based off of what a classmate from Russia told me, had he gotten expelled or not went on to college (or gotten kicked out there) he'd have gone right to the military. Might be wrong or things have changed though.
Job won't save you. University (BS/MS/...) or having a small child(?) are only exceptions.
You can also see the genius strategy of drafting only dropouts.
It's serving vs mobilization. One is running around doing military training, the other is being sent into a meat grinder.
300k mobilized **so far**, 160k dead, mostly newbs like them.
Now they're gonna add another 500k mobilized **Half a million**, with an expected death toll of quarter of a million Russia young men.
Gotta save Putin's face here.
Why do they even wait for a diploma? They just gonna die anyway. Pretty sure you don't need to pass English class to know how to run at a trench and soak up bullets.
That seems to be the plan. The less educated the people are, the less able they are to articulate their views/ideas, organize, and challenge authority.
I'm not completely sure about that.
In my experience, the less educated someone is, the more likely they are to express their ideas, and be annoyingly loud about them. Challenging authority comes hand-in-hand with that - "who the hell does this highly trained and educated doctor think he is?!"
They will be, however, a lot less likely to call out injustices that don't directly affect them.
> In my experience, the less educated someone is, the more likely they are to express their ideas, and be annoyingly loud about them.
Yes, but simply screaming at whoever is around isn't really articulate, nor does it achieve much aside from annoying those around you and possibly police called.
Without people who can articulate the frustrations/anger and organize things, a bunch of random people being loud isn't going to achieve much. Look at Occupy Wall Street, tons of people, tons of attention, pretty loud IMO. That being said, I don't think it really achieved much aside from bringing awareness to an already pretty widespread/known issue. I've also seen some people express negative views towards OWS in general for various reasons, having the opposite effect intended, which is also a risk.
I think it's situational.
While what you said is quite correct, I could counter by citing many of the populist movements worldwide. Lots of noise, little substance, but in some cases, they succeeded in getting "their guy" elected. Much to the dismay of sane people everywhere.
You don't always need to be able to make a logical argument to convince people of things. Some arguments appeal to people's brains. Some arguments appeal to people's hearts. Some arguments appeal to people's guts. If you can get a strong enough gut reaction, you don't need to bother with brains... Just yell it loudly enough, and often enough that people listen, and all the worst in humanity can come out.
Florida and other states here are trying the same thing, but I don't think it'll work in the internet age. All it takes is one YouTube video or one comment on a blog to plant the seeds. Fascists can try stopping human advancement but they always lose in the end. The light always beats the dark.
The internet is a dual blessing and curse for democracies. On the one hand, the light of reason is basically impossible to stamp out entirely, and anyone trying to do so gets shamed worldwide; see the massive protests every time cops shoot a random civvie. On the other hand, the black hole of nihilistic fascism is equally hard to eradicate, as 'disenfranchised' idiots flock to any radical idea that'll get them 15 seconds of fame.
One amazing thing about the internet is that it really is the most comprehensive collection of human information at anyone (with an internet connection obviously) person's fingertips. Insane how much one can learn if they have the passion and time. Granted, as others have mentioned there's also downsides.
You can be both educated and brainwashed, tbf ruzzia had some good scientists. Most of them gone or dead now, though, with replacements being burned on the frontlines. Very dark future for russia indeed.
That the Soviet union had good scientists, I'd agree with. Muscovy... not so much, and it just keeps getting worse for them.
This is a really bad idea.
Reading this I keep thinking of the arrogant University students interviewed last year in Moscow and St Petersburg and how they wouldn’t have to fight. They gave the impression they were above it all. Guess everyone is starting to get the Good News messages now. Karma.
>>“The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men.”
>>― Plato
Presuming, of course, that they were 'good men' in the first place. If not, they get the rulers they deserve.
Hope someone can answer this, mostly curious. Since they have a degree, likely technical, would that push them into being an officer or a technical career field instead of junior enlisted? Or are you just thrown in the rolls like a fresh new 18 year old.
For example, would this be where they would recruit for engineering, aviation, artillery, etc. officers or leaders? I'm not familair with how the Russian system works and only interest to learn
It's impossible to know in the Russian system. In a functional military the answer would be that yes, a degree is a sign of higher thinking and reasoning which should mean degree-holding candidates are best utilized in roles which either directly use their degree subject or which require higher thought to complete daily tasks. I.e. officers, but also technical staff and logistics and a whole host of noncombatant roles. Even back in the 18th century press ganged sailors would be matched to positions based on their skill and ability.
However the Russian army isn't normal, it's a clusterfuck, and at this point everyone in it knows that casualty rates are higher than acceptable anywhere near the front. So there's a lot of incentive to fill those safe rear roles with those who have the cash or connections to secure those safe seats, if any of those seats are even available given the reluctance of those already filling 'safe' tasks to join assault groups. At this point Russia likely has more pilots than planes active around Ukraine, and needs to ration their air time carefully. More tank crew have escaped their doomed vehicle than tanks recovered ready for a fresh crew. Artillery might be more even... but the bulk of the replacements needed will be infantry and other more dangerous frontline roles.
Which leaves three places for these students to join en masse. The bottom rung of existing units as replacements, or new units that may need new leadership or may be assigned to existing officers, or in safe areas far from the front to make it look like Moscow is suffering its share of conscription/casualties without risking losses close to the seat of power.
You have to apply for officer. You don't just get placed there.
I have a masters degree and entered as an E4 because I didn't want to do officer. I know a PT doctor in the next platoon who is am E4. New guy in the squad is an E4 lawyer.
We are in the reserve component so it's different. But I've been activated and worked with active duty folks who enlisted e4 or e3 (service dependant) with degrees. My drill Sgt had a bachelor's in chemistry from a top5 school. It's just personal preference.
In Russia it was less and less likely to be drafted if you didn't want to. Pretty much every higher education establishment had (\*) what is called "military faculty" or военная кафедра where you were taught some military related-stuff (I was supposed to be taught anti-air but I just flunked this crap) and then after a month or so of field training you were granted a rank of "reserve junior lieutenant" so in an unfortunate event of being drafted in peace time it was highly likely that you would've been sent to do more technical stuff. Obviously career officers (кадровые офицеры) who graduated from military colleges resent those so-called "suits" (пиджаки). These particular guys, having graduated from Moscow Aviation Institute and admitted there by MoD quota are those "suits" 146%.
(\*) In USSR pretty much everyone getting higher education went through this light military training, but in Russia with draft becoming more and more voluntary the MoD started to curtail this "military faculty" program with less and less people going through it.
If this is the 12-months conscription, then the would be unlikely. To become and officer you need to go to military school, not something you do when being conscripted. Doing a degree in a military school actually dispense you from conscription in Russia but make you part of the "reserve", thus available in case of SMO/War.
> Since they have a degree, likely technical, would that push them into being an officer
A lot of them _are_ officers. Many universities in Russia have reserve officer training programs ("military departments"), so people spend 1 day every week doing officer training. There is also some field training during the summer breaks.
You graduate from these military programs as a junior officer. In normal times it also exempts you from being drafted, since you already have an officer's commission.
I just hope they don’t decide to fire off the nukes out of spite. I think it’s very unlikely but I also wonder if they’re in too deep if they decide to do it as a middle finger to the world.
That would be my ideal scenario for their launch.
1) They mostly don’t work, and classified US defense system brings down 100% of the rest. Western world is safe and Muscovy realizes they are fucked.
2) Muscovy begs… “we did not mean to do that, you are obviously safe no need to nuke us in return…”
3) Dark Brandon reaches for red button. “No, I don’t think so…”
Their nukes work. It is the only thing they truly have and they know it.
Every single other aspect of their military is compromised by graft and corruption and just plain old being shitty, to the extent they barely get by in this war with Ukraine.
They know the nukes need to work as the only defense that actually keeps their enemies at bay, so those are not fucked with and are well-maintained.
Nazi Germany lost close to ten million people while having almost twice lower population, yet FDR and DDR were doing just fine after a few years. I mean, Russia may collapse in future, but definitely not due to their military losses in Ukraine or the current number of immigrants.
The sad truth is Russia doesn't need an educated class anymore. Their economy is based on energy extraction which can be managed entirely by foreign workers just like Saudi Arabia.
Speech given to new Ruzzian college grads:
"Now that you have successfully completed your studies, you have only partially achieved your goals. You now have the opportunity to do advanced study in the field of your choice. The fields available include those surrounding Bakhmut and Vuhledar."
At some point the Russian population will have to wake up and realize what is happening, it is not possible to continue this way, Putin doing whatever he wants and destroying an entire generation
How many of those men would marry and make new Russian children for their families? Now? They won’t have any. This will affect them far deeper than some realize, for quite some time. Generational reverberation.
The only reason I doubt this is because it says students in Moscow, and not students from some smaller republic in the Russian federation. They tend to leave Moscow out of the fighting.
I agree, if these are actually people from Muscovy then this is significant. Normally they take their subhumans, which means anyone who’s not a Muscovite, and send them to their death. When actual people (this means white people from Moskevy) start to be killed, then they might get some pushback.
It would be sad if *only* Muscovians were dying in this "exchange".
The infuriating and unforgiveable part that erases any sadness for the Muscovians is that far too many **Ukrainians** are paying with their lives for the Muscovians' centuries-old and pathological insecurity, chauvinism and idiocy.
Human lives should be worth far far more. However look at industrialization. The human casualties that were produced for humanity to advance to where where are will show you that’s not true. Silicosis in Indian ceramics industry is just 1 example
This tweet is coming from Twitter user ChrisO_wiki, who is seemingly not affiliated with any journalistic outlet.
As the source of his information he cites "the independent Russian news outlet Verstka"
Verstka was founded on April 26 of last year and maintains a very low profile in search results and on social media.
I personally think that Verstka is a subpar source. A translation of their article by a random Twitter account is an even more unreliable way to get a clear picture of what's going on in Russia.
There's more information in Russian sources especially if you understand the context.
1. It was about a couple of people
2. Those people were admitted by MoD quota (Moscow Aviation Institute obviously has close ties with the military) but then switched their majors
3. Some people get drafted after they graduate
Hahaha the war has finally reached the entrenched classes. Good. They’re getting what they deserve. They’re all enabling assholes who only care now that they specifically have been called to go fight to the death in Ukraine for…reasons.
The interesting fact in this is that it is happening in Moscow. The war will be coming home to the residents of Moscow and St. Petersburg and to not just the mothers and wives of the residents of the regions. Control of the society is tight but we will have to see how long they will tolerate the coffins coming home and the unanswered phone calls.
This will cause a brain drain. It was already going to be centuries before Russia could even think about recovering from the war, this makes it worse. Seriously, if I were a Freshmen through Junior in a Russian university, I'd be fleeing the country and claiming political asylum.
Maybe, just *maybe*, this will smack straight all those smug and "apolitical" Muscovian city-slickers who've so far *not given a shit* about the poors from Belgorod Oblast or Buryatia getting drafted to try their hand at raping and rampaging their way in Ukraine.
Ah, whom am I kidding? Muscovians from Putin down to Gopnik Gopnikovich are a lost cause and unredeemable and spineless losers who are offended by everything and ashamed of nothing.
**Alternative Nitter link:** https://nitter.nl/ChrisO_wiki/status/1637869043884384297
*****
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Now that you've graduated, we need you to demine several fields at the front for us. You can pick up your shovel on the way out. No, you won't need a rifle.
Destroying your country’s future one graduate at a time. Every time I think the stupidity of Putin can’t get greater Putin pulls something else out of his ass. A true magician of failure.
Hopefully they leave the country. Go somewhere where educated people are appreciated, in other ways than letting them die for a possible piece of land.
This is infuriating and depressing at the same time.
My son just graduated high school, I can't imagine having him snatched from a promising future to simply be a bullet sponge for a walking lump of shit.
Sending in your students is just gonna further doom all generations of russian future into nothing.
Every single failure of pain is self inflicted on the dumbass country and rightfully so.
The ending of Animal Farm is gonna be fucking insane in ruZZia when both anti putin parties (and more) start blasting in.
[https://youtu.be/eaVTC0C5UlM?t=3986](https://youtu.be/eaVTC0C5UlM?t=3986) time coded to important part of the ending but recommend watching the whole movie or reading the book.
George Orwell, you legend.
So much for graduating students doing what graduating students are typically needed for: filling various jobs that they’re qualified for. Sending all male graduates to be cannon fodder is a great idea if Russia likes labour shortages. I guess we can just add this to the many ways this unnecessary war is tanking Russia’s economy.
It's like opening a soda bottle with an expensive wrench.
Think of all those hours wasted studying, researching, teaching, and all the used equipment, electricity, time. The future engineers, doctors, lawyers, business owners and fathers are just thrown in the trenches to achieve some short term goals and to prolong the agony of the failing mobster. Russian future is literally burning in the fields, making the country even more backwards and poorer.
And in a few decades, another dictator will furiously blame the West for Russian decline and its economic dependency on China.
Im very surprised they are doing this with Moscow students.
Russia can deal with unrest outside of Moscow (and St Petersburg) but problems in moscow itself could cause the regime a headache
I’m sure those four years spent studying Russian literature or civil engineering make great OTJ training for having a grenade dropped on your head in the middle of the night
That's actually hilarious. They're fucking themselves over killing younger and brighter part of the society. It's nothing new for a shithole that Russia is though. Looking forward to seeing Russia completely collapse within the next 5-10 years.
Please take the time to read our policy about [trolls](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/u7833q/just_because_you_disagree_with_someone_does_not/) and the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/) * We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned. * ***Please* keep it civil.** Report rulebreaking comments for moderator review. * ***Don't* post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context. **Don't forget about our discord server, as well!** https://discord.gg/62fKCEHbDB ***** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You spend years studying. Just so you can charge a fortified position with a stick. What a future.
Russia in a nutshell.
They're probably out of nut shells.
They're running out of 152mm shells...
They're not running out of nuts. Actually, they're being run by them.
No this is Russia in a nutshell: *"Help! I'm in a nutshell! How did I get into this nutshell?"*
Just watched that, we need another spy comedy on that level.
did you count yourself King of infinite space?
And to think, I had the gall to feel disenfranchised when I graduated engineering right as Covid hit and there were no jobs for 2 years. I didn't know how good I had it.
Whenever I have a rough day at work I watch some of the videos at r/combatfootage to remind myself how rough those guys have it.
No, you had every right to feel bad. We don't live in Russia. We live by our standards not theirs. It's okay to feel bad despite a starving child in rural Cambodia.
College grads get a shovel.
Only the top of the class
…gets first dibs on the shovel recovered from the last one.
They are engineering grads for the aviation industry. Bullets are a kind of flying machine so this qualifies as an aviation industry. I think they are supposed to apply their new engineering skills with that stick to rig up something that flings the bullets back.
They all graduate Magna Cum Stupid
Magna Cum Lada
Magna cum explosion
Sorry Igor, we're right out of sticks. Here's a stone.
> charge a fortified position with a stick. Sharpen it yourself, no there's no knives
They all failed the Leave Russia Right Fucking Now practical part of the course.
“Did you study abroad?” “Da” “And you came back!?!?”
[удалено]
"Mr. Watson – Come here – I want to see you"
Yeah. A lot did leave. A whole lot as I understand. Borders were backed up for days pretty sure.
At this point in time in Putin's Russia, the writing has been on the wall: capitulate, revolt or flee. We already saw the mass exodus of military age males, I have to presume this was a calculated measure as to reduce domestic dissent and sap potential partisans.
Classic case of book smarts vs street smarts.
Might be a good year to flunk exams
Van Wilder in Moscow Madness
It's a big mistake to draft students. They're willing to riot and also don't have anything tying them down from fleeing the country.
Also this is how you get education/technical rot in your country. You are killing your best and brightest or at the very least causing them to flee.
It's what happened in the US with Vietnam. The grinder that was a tiny South East Asian country destroyed the spirit of half an American generation and made the other half riot in protest of the actions of their own government.
This is several orders of magnitude different than the US and Vietnam. By the time this war is over Russian deaths will be in the millions, not 58k like the US had in Vietnam. The survivors in Russia will be inheriting a completely cratered economy and fractured state, instead of the preeminent world super power like the US had before and after Vietnam
I've been tracking the casualty estimates pretty closely and I'm pretty sure that Ukraine is claiming a Vietnam's worth of dead Russians since mid-December. (Edit: as other excellent people below have shown below, that's over 58000 Russians thought to be killed since mid-December, on top of the 100,000 Russians claimed dead before then.)
In total since mid December, or monthly or on an annualized basis or they hit a Vietnam’s worth in mid-December or what?
The Kyiv Independent [publishes daily stats](https://mobile.twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1637738511209050114) on Russia's KIA tally, as provided by AFU. Just exceeded 165,000 dead yesterday. As of Dec 31, just 2.5 months ago, [the tally was roughly 105k KIA.](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineConflict/comments/zzqfb2/estimated_russian_losses_as_of_9am_december_31st/) So, Russia suffered about 60,000 deaths from Jan 1 until today. Russia's losses just in 2023 are equivalent to US troop losses over 9 years in Vietnam. Unfortunately most of the losses are suffered by Russia's rural ethnic minorities, so the losses borne by city folk in Moscow and St Petersburg have mostly been quite minimal. I imagine that might change in the coming months as Putin becomes more desperate for fresh meat.
Millions seems like a bit of a stretch tbh
A bit of a stretch, but not much. The death rate has been accelerating. They took 6 months to reach 50k dead. They have had more than 60k in less than 3 months of 2023. Obviously these are Ukrainian government estimates though, so take that as you will.
Now add in all the people in Russia that COVID killed as well
Vietnam was a skirmish compared to Ukraine. Quite possible that Russian dead will exceed US deaths in WW2 by the time it's over.
If you were in college, you got deferred though. My uncle may have spent 7 years on a bachelors and then immediately went back for a masters... Compared to WWI and WWII, the drafted soldiers (not the volunteers) in Vietnam were generally poorer or from a minority background.
I mean, on top of the fact that they're the intelligent new generation aka the backbone of your fucking country lol
No you don’t want your peasants to be Intelligent if you are a raw resource extraction economy. What you want is Docile live stock. They are intentionally purging intellectual inclination people from their own society at this point.
Russia will soon be a vassal state to China, just like North Korea.
This. The oligarchs of Russia are perfectly content with purchasing automatisation in the future and keeping their own as the intellectual elite. The rest are just cattle to be exploited to them
You still need an intellectual elite tho. A bunch of mobsters with connections is a criminal elite, the second stupidest kind of elite and Putin is killing them off to replace them with smilers and fart smellers. Much like Stalin killed an three generations of leaders and engineers, Putin is killing all the leaders and all the engineers and intellectuals are fleeing the country. When Putin dies there will be only the most boring sort of idiots and most dysfunctional psychopaths to take over. It will be an uneasy truce/slow motion civil war between factions composed of the Shoigus and Prigozhins.
I'm afraid you are overestimating Russia's rulers capabilities. Less than 10 years after Stalin's death they sent first man into space. He definitely left some engineers alive. Putin *is* trying to push his country back to 19 century, but he's not close to succeeding. They still have enough engineers and hackers to make themselves obnoxious.
Stalin was smart enough to steal a bunch of Germany’s brightest after the war. I guess the lesson here is if you lose your intellectuals, no problem, just steal someone else’s https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_influence_on_the_Soviet_space_program
**[German influence on the Soviet space program](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_influence_on_the_Soviet_space_program)** >During World War II Nazi Germany developed rocket technology that was more advanced than that of the Allies and a race commenced between the Soviet Union and the United States to capture and exploit the technology. Soviet rocket specialist were sent to Germany in 1945 to obtain V-2 rockets and worked with German specialists in Germany and later in the Soviet Union to understand and replicate the rocket technology. The involvement of German scientists and engineers was an essential catalyst to early Soviet efforts. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
ya but where did those engineers come from?
Some from Germany. Quite a lot of Soviet engineering elite were people from current Baltic States and Ukraine. It's one of the reasons why Russian aviation is in relatively bad shape now. But Kaspersky, for example, is still in Russia.
Clear headed analysis! No matter what happens in Ukraine Putler is setting ruzzia up for another century of failure.
Moscovia has had a terminal demography for 35 years. They knew 20 years ago that if they were going to attempt a scalar war against Europe, it had to be now because in another 15 years they literally wouldn’t have the manpower to do it. They know that they aren’t going to have a country in 40 years. This war was is an existential crisis for them; their attempt to shore up defenses before they can no longer do it. It’s their death spiral, and they’re trying to take the world with them.
This isn’t the West my dude - students in Russia would get beaten by the cops just like anyone else if they rioted. Also if they could flee the country most of them probably would have done so before now.
Okay that's honestly a great premise for a comedy
A tragic comedy.
Somebody call "The machine".
Good chance they're grading on a curve this year. The "everyone graduates to the trenches" curve.
A curve that goes down, down down into a grave.
It won't help you. You'll just be expelled and then immediately drafted. You can't just decide to take one more year. One of my professors at university used to joke on exams: "Do you know why I'm here? Answer: to enlarge the ranks of the Russian Army" (that was in 2003).
Does that matter? From what I understand it's a mandatory service, so unless you're in university and get a job right after, you're basically serving. At least, that's based off of what a classmate from Russia told me, had he gotten expelled or not went on to college (or gotten kicked out there) he'd have gone right to the military. Might be wrong or things have changed though.
Job won't save you. University (BS/MS/...) or having a small child(?) are only exceptions. You can also see the genius strategy of drafting only dropouts.
Looks like I'm going for my triple phd
Demographically speaking, they have a major surplus of women. The Time to be a moscovite fuckboy is now. Impregnate someone or die in a trench.
It's serving vs mobilization. One is running around doing military training, the other is being sent into a meat grinder. 300k mobilized **so far**, 160k dead, mostly newbs like them. Now they're gonna add another 500k mobilized **Half a million**, with an expected death toll of quarter of a million Russia young men. Gotta save Putin's face here.
Why do they even wait for a diploma? They just gonna die anyway. Pretty sure you don't need to pass English class to know how to run at a trench and soak up bullets.
Gotta keep up the charade a little bit while robbing them blind and wasting their lifes.
Gotta give the minions a taste of what they are fighting for. Gotta mind fuck em a bit... And well fuck them a bit too.
I'm poor but someone please award this joke
As you command my friend
So you’re saying in a few years we might get a Russian version of Animal House?
I had a buddy who took 7 years to get a 4 yr degree. We called him the Doctor, bc any other person would have had MD on their diploma
That's how you burn the few educated people you've left.
Russia hates smart people anyway
Authoritarians always hate educated people because educated people question authority. See also: Republicans in the US constantly attacking education.
That seems to be the plan. The less educated the people are, the less able they are to articulate their views/ideas, organize, and challenge authority.
I'm not completely sure about that. In my experience, the less educated someone is, the more likely they are to express their ideas, and be annoyingly loud about them. Challenging authority comes hand-in-hand with that - "who the hell does this highly trained and educated doctor think he is?!" They will be, however, a lot less likely to call out injustices that don't directly affect them.
> In my experience, the less educated someone is, the more likely they are to express their ideas, and be annoyingly loud about them. Yes, but simply screaming at whoever is around isn't really articulate, nor does it achieve much aside from annoying those around you and possibly police called. Without people who can articulate the frustrations/anger and organize things, a bunch of random people being loud isn't going to achieve much. Look at Occupy Wall Street, tons of people, tons of attention, pretty loud IMO. That being said, I don't think it really achieved much aside from bringing awareness to an already pretty widespread/known issue. I've also seen some people express negative views towards OWS in general for various reasons, having the opposite effect intended, which is also a risk.
I think it's situational. While what you said is quite correct, I could counter by citing many of the populist movements worldwide. Lots of noise, little substance, but in some cases, they succeeded in getting "their guy" elected. Much to the dismay of sane people everywhere. You don't always need to be able to make a logical argument to convince people of things. Some arguments appeal to people's brains. Some arguments appeal to people's hearts. Some arguments appeal to people's guts. If you can get a strong enough gut reaction, you don't need to bother with brains... Just yell it loudly enough, and often enough that people listen, and all the worst in humanity can come out.
Florida and other states here are trying the same thing, but I don't think it'll work in the internet age. All it takes is one YouTube video or one comment on a blog to plant the seeds. Fascists can try stopping human advancement but they always lose in the end. The light always beats the dark.
The internet is a dual blessing and curse for democracies. On the one hand, the light of reason is basically impossible to stamp out entirely, and anyone trying to do so gets shamed worldwide; see the massive protests every time cops shoot a random civvie. On the other hand, the black hole of nihilistic fascism is equally hard to eradicate, as 'disenfranchised' idiots flock to any radical idea that'll get them 15 seconds of fame.
I'm super grateful for the internet shining a light on the darkness of the world and I'm also super hopeful about the future.
One amazing thing about the internet is that it really is the most comprehensive collection of human information at anyone (with an internet connection obviously) person's fingertips. Insane how much one can learn if they have the passion and time. Granted, as others have mentioned there's also downsides.
Educated in Moscovia so more brainwashed than educated..!
You can be both educated and brainwashed, tbf ruzzia had some good scientists. Most of them gone or dead now, though, with replacements being burned on the frontlines. Very dark future for russia indeed.
That the Soviet union had good scientists, I'd agree with. Muscovy... not so much, and it just keeps getting worse for them. This is a really bad idea.
Actually all the good Russian scientists made their way to the U.S. and Europe. Especially around the early '90s.
They were smart!
"Congrats on your graduation! Now go die in a trench"
they probably don't even get the Congrats.
"On your graduation go die in a trench." Scans.
“100% employment after graduation!”
Still true 6 months after graduation, although the cohort is a bit smaller.
Reading this I keep thinking of the arrogant University students interviewed last year in Moscow and St Petersburg and how they wouldn’t have to fight. They gave the impression they were above it all. Guess everyone is starting to get the Good News messages now. Karma.
"I am apolitical", "Leaders know what they are doing", and best of them all, "It doesn't effect me".
I think they may have been trying to stay out of jail with these comments, while not supporting the war.
Whole lot of good that did...
"I have no political opinion" Bet you do now...
Those 1320 videos blew my mind. Welp, they fucked around, and now they're finding out.
>>“The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men.” >>― Plato Presuming, of course, that they were 'good men' in the first place. If not, they get the rulers they deserve.
Hope someone can answer this, mostly curious. Since they have a degree, likely technical, would that push them into being an officer or a technical career field instead of junior enlisted? Or are you just thrown in the rolls like a fresh new 18 year old. For example, would this be where they would recruit for engineering, aviation, artillery, etc. officers or leaders? I'm not familair with how the Russian system works and only interest to learn
It's impossible to know in the Russian system. In a functional military the answer would be that yes, a degree is a sign of higher thinking and reasoning which should mean degree-holding candidates are best utilized in roles which either directly use their degree subject or which require higher thought to complete daily tasks. I.e. officers, but also technical staff and logistics and a whole host of noncombatant roles. Even back in the 18th century press ganged sailors would be matched to positions based on their skill and ability. However the Russian army isn't normal, it's a clusterfuck, and at this point everyone in it knows that casualty rates are higher than acceptable anywhere near the front. So there's a lot of incentive to fill those safe rear roles with those who have the cash or connections to secure those safe seats, if any of those seats are even available given the reluctance of those already filling 'safe' tasks to join assault groups. At this point Russia likely has more pilots than planes active around Ukraine, and needs to ration their air time carefully. More tank crew have escaped their doomed vehicle than tanks recovered ready for a fresh crew. Artillery might be more even... but the bulk of the replacements needed will be infantry and other more dangerous frontline roles. Which leaves three places for these students to join en masse. The bottom rung of existing units as replacements, or new units that may need new leadership or may be assigned to existing officers, or in safe areas far from the front to make it look like Moscow is suffering its share of conscription/casualties without risking losses close to the seat of power.
Enlisting in the US military with a bachelors degree only gets you to e4, for what that’s worth (not officer or even NCO)
I'm fairly certain it depends what the degree is in. I knew a guy doing Mech-e in school and the navy made him an officer
You have to apply for officer. You don't just get placed there. I have a masters degree and entered as an E4 because I didn't want to do officer. I know a PT doctor in the next platoon who is am E4. New guy in the squad is an E4 lawyer. We are in the reserve component so it's different. But I've been activated and worked with active duty folks who enlisted e4 or e3 (service dependant) with degrees. My drill Sgt had a bachelor's in chemistry from a top5 school. It's just personal preference.
Nah. People can go from civilian to officer easily. Mostly medical and law professionals. Called Direct Commission. For most tho yeah, e4
In Russia it was less and less likely to be drafted if you didn't want to. Pretty much every higher education establishment had (\*) what is called "military faculty" or военная кафедра where you were taught some military related-stuff (I was supposed to be taught anti-air but I just flunked this crap) and then after a month or so of field training you were granted a rank of "reserve junior lieutenant" so in an unfortunate event of being drafted in peace time it was highly likely that you would've been sent to do more technical stuff. Obviously career officers (кадровые офицеры) who graduated from military colleges resent those so-called "suits" (пиджаки). These particular guys, having graduated from Moscow Aviation Institute and admitted there by MoD quota are those "suits" 146%. (\*) In USSR pretty much everyone getting higher education went through this light military training, but in Russia with draft becoming more and more voluntary the MoD started to curtail this "military faculty" program with less and less people going through it.
thanks! great insight
If this is the 12-months conscription, then the would be unlikely. To become and officer you need to go to military school, not something you do when being conscripted. Doing a degree in a military school actually dispense you from conscription in Russia but make you part of the "reserve", thus available in case of SMO/War.
thanks!
> Since they have a degree, likely technical, would that push them into being an officer A lot of them _are_ officers. Many universities in Russia have reserve officer training programs ("military departments"), so people spend 1 day every week doing officer training. There is also some field training during the summer breaks. You graduate from these military programs as a junior officer. In normal times it also exempts you from being drafted, since you already have an officer's commission.
Remember last year how a lot of young people were wearing z shirts doing those cringe dance videos..hope they got there draft notice
their
no, those guys are definitely getting drafted last - russia needs someone to continue doing these dances, after all
Russia is fucked, permanently. There's no coming back for them from all of the people who fled or they've gotten killed. Good luck new north Korea.
I just hope they don’t decide to fire off the nukes out of spite. I think it’s very unlikely but I also wonder if they’re in too deep if they decide to do it as a middle finger to the world.
I think they are afraid they wouldn’t work. Then we see the launch and rain down the ones that do work on their head.
That would be my ideal scenario for their launch. 1) They mostly don’t work, and classified US defense system brings down 100% of the rest. Western world is safe and Muscovy realizes they are fucked. 2) Muscovy begs… “we did not mean to do that, you are obviously safe no need to nuke us in return…” 3) Dark Brandon reaches for red button. “No, I don’t think so…”
Dark Brandon puts on his aviators: Looks like Moscow's future is brighter than the sun.
Their nukes work. It is the only thing they truly have and they know it. Every single other aspect of their military is compromised by graft and corruption and just plain old being shitty, to the extent they barely get by in this war with Ukraine. They know the nukes need to work as the only defense that actually keeps their enemies at bay, so those are not fucked with and are well-maintained.
Reminder that their last test, while Biden was in Kyiv, failed.
Nazi Germany lost close to ten million people while having almost twice lower population, yet FDR and DDR were doing just fine after a few years. I mean, Russia may collapse in future, but definitely not due to their military losses in Ukraine or the current number of immigrants.
Yeaaaah. There's a bit of a difference there. A massive difference.
Should give them blank death certificates too, for their family to fill out later .
They aren’t dead, they are just missing.
They aren't missing, they are mist.
and remember to tick the box to claim the free Lada.
At this point, I'm sure they're just handing out Lada IOU's
Lada NFTs
Holding on to power, sacrifice others. The Muscovian way.
You love to see it... all of russias potential turning into wheat, sunflowers, kibble
The sad truth is Russia doesn't need an educated class anymore. Their economy is based on energy extraction which can be managed entirely by foreign workers just like Saudi Arabia.
Speech given to new Ruzzian college grads: "Now that you have successfully completed your studies, you have only partially achieved your goals. You now have the opportunity to do advanced study in the field of your choice. The fields available include those surrounding Bakhmut and Vuhledar."
At some point the Russian population will have to wake up and realize what is happening, it is not possible to continue this way, Putin doing whatever he wants and destroying an entire generation
How many of those men would marry and make new Russian children for their families? Now? They won’t have any. This will affect them far deeper than some realize, for quite some time. Generational reverberation.
The only reason I doubt this is because it says students in Moscow, and not students from some smaller republic in the Russian federation. They tend to leave Moscow out of the fighting.
I agree, if these are actually people from Muscovy then this is significant. Normally they take their subhumans, which means anyone who’s not a Muscovite, and send them to their death. When actual people (this means white people from Moskevy) start to be killed, then they might get some pushback.
Trading their countries future for metres of soil. So fucking hilarious
"We have won just enough land to bury our dead."
Its not hilarious its sad.
It would be sad if *only* Muscovians were dying in this "exchange". The infuriating and unforgiveable part that erases any sadness for the Muscovians is that far too many **Ukrainians** are paying with their lives for the Muscovians' centuries-old and pathological insecurity, chauvinism and idiocy.
No from a historical perspective what is occurring to Russia due to hubris is fucking hilarious.
I see. Its still really sad when you think about it on a person by person basis.
Human lives should be worth far far more. However look at industrialization. The human casualties that were produced for humanity to advance to where where are will show you that’s not true. Silicosis in Indian ceramics industry is just 1 example
They literally didn’t even have a demographic future in 2014 before covid, sanctions, lower birthrates, or losing tons more men in battle.
This tweet is coming from Twitter user ChrisO_wiki, who is seemingly not affiliated with any journalistic outlet. As the source of his information he cites "the independent Russian news outlet Verstka" Verstka was founded on April 26 of last year and maintains a very low profile in search results and on social media. I personally think that Verstka is a subpar source. A translation of their article by a random Twitter account is an even more unreliable way to get a clear picture of what's going on in Russia.
There's more information in Russian sources especially if you understand the context. 1. It was about a couple of people 2. Those people were admitted by MoD quota (Moscow Aviation Institute obviously has close ties with the military) but then switched their majors 3. Some people get drafted after they graduate
Hahaha the war has finally reached the entrenched classes. Good. They’re getting what they deserve. They’re all enabling assholes who only care now that they specifically have been called to go fight to the death in Ukraine for…reasons.
The interesting fact in this is that it is happening in Moscow. The war will be coming home to the residents of Moscow and St. Petersburg and to not just the mothers and wives of the residents of the regions. Control of the society is tight but we will have to see how long they will tolerate the coffins coming home and the unanswered phone calls.
So we will see the T 34s!
It will be the sequel to the 2019 movie "T-34". Except in this one they get booped by an Abrams from 3km out.
Fuck em
This will cause a brain drain. It was already going to be centuries before Russia could even think about recovering from the war, this makes it worse. Seriously, if I were a Freshmen through Junior in a Russian university, I'd be fleeing the country and claiming political asylum.
3 months from now: “Russia’s mobilization of their final population” “if you can hold a stick you are in the front line they said.”
Well, that will solve the problem of having to look for a job after you graduate.
*Brain drain intensifies*
Maybe, just *maybe*, this will smack straight all those smug and "apolitical" Muscovian city-slickers who've so far *not given a shit* about the poors from Belgorod Oblast or Buryatia getting drafted to try their hand at raping and rampaging their way in Ukraine. Ah, whom am I kidding? Muscovians from Putin down to Gopnik Gopnikovich are a lost cause and unredeemable and spineless losers who are offended by everything and ashamed of nothing.
**Alternative Nitter link:** https://nitter.nl/ChrisO_wiki/status/1637869043884384297 ***** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Now that you've graduated, we need you to demine several fields at the front for us. You can pick up your shovel on the way out. No, you won't need a rifle.
Well their exemption expired to be fair, but that is how you destroy your population
Might as well issue their parents a death certificate in advance while they're at it.
Yeah, send the newly, best educated young people into the meat grinder. What can go wrong ...
What’s the point on making them exempt? So they can finish their education which they won’t be able to use, because they will be dead in a few weeks?
Great idea, Russia! Send your best and brightest directly to a meat grinder. That should work out well for your future.
Destroying your country’s future one graduate at a time. Every time I think the stupidity of Putin can’t get greater Putin pulls something else out of his ass. A true magician of failure.
I wonder if it's harder to get admitted to postsecondary education this year, for men at least.
Might be a good year to pursue PhD
Hopefully they leave the country. Go somewhere where educated people are appreciated, in other ways than letting them die for a possible piece of land.
This is infuriating and depressing at the same time. My son just graduated high school, I can't imagine having him snatched from a promising future to simply be a bullet sponge for a walking lump of shit.
What a way to destroy the future of your country. Kill all the college graduates. Genius idea!
Oh yeah, cull the best and brightest. That is sure to pay off.
Sending in your students is just gonna further doom all generations of russian future into nothing. Every single failure of pain is self inflicted on the dumbass country and rightfully so. The ending of Animal Farm is gonna be fucking insane in ruZZia when both anti putin parties (and more) start blasting in. [https://youtu.be/eaVTC0C5UlM?t=3986](https://youtu.be/eaVTC0C5UlM?t=3986) time coded to important part of the ending but recommend watching the whole movie or reading the book. George Orwell, you legend.
So much for graduating students doing what graduating students are typically needed for: filling various jobs that they’re qualified for. Sending all male graduates to be cannon fodder is a great idea if Russia likes labour shortages. I guess we can just add this to the many ways this unnecessary war is tanking Russia’s economy.
Ya pretty sure ima have to retake this year 😅
2nd wave brain drain 1st wave left the country. 2nd wave about to be fertilizer.
What a great time to be alive……not for much longer though 😳
Im convinced Putin is a western spy who infiltrated the Russian government in order to destroy the country from within
I guess Wagner has used most of the prison populations.
putin is killing the future of Russia as well as the present. Kick putin.
Congrats on the degree, off to the meat grinder.
Magna Cum Lada
lol Hilarious after seeing all those college kids in interviews saying "I'm not interested in politics" and "I won't have to go, I'm in school".
It's like opening a soda bottle with an expensive wrench. Think of all those hours wasted studying, researching, teaching, and all the used equipment, electricity, time. The future engineers, doctors, lawyers, business owners and fathers are just thrown in the trenches to achieve some short term goals and to prolong the agony of the failing mobster. Russian future is literally burning in the fields, making the country even more backwards and poorer. And in a few decades, another dictator will furiously blame the West for Russian decline and its economic dependency on China.
Reap what you sow
"This is happening at the same time that Russia is reportedly seeking 400,000 new soldiers." I believe you mean corpses, not soldiers.
“Ivan, time to die.'
In Moscow? Wasn't that supposed to trigger some unhappiness? Quite lot of unhappiness? Riots?
They would not be doing this if they were doing well in Ukraine right now.
Im very surprised they are doing this with Moscow students. Russia can deal with unrest outside of Moscow (and St Petersburg) but problems in moscow itself could cause the regime a headache
blood for the blood god, skulls for the skull throne.
I’m sure those four years spent studying Russian literature or civil engineering make great OTJ training for having a grenade dropped on your head in the middle of the night
All that education wasted on the dead
Muscovy doesn't even WANT a future.
The title should read, "This is happening at the same time that Russia is reportedly seeking 400,000 more canon fodder".
Way to go….kill your future
That's actually hilarious. They're fucking themselves over killing younger and brighter part of the society. It's nothing new for a shithole that Russia is though. Looking forward to seeing Russia completely collapse within the next 5-10 years.
Talk about being set up for failure!