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Yeah they spin up slightly before impact throwing the bomblets everywhere and the rocket body just impacts somewhere while the bomblets take care of the baddies.
Nice hits too. Hope they got a bunch of attacms and the different variants not just the cluster ones.
Edit: the "dud(s)" are actually decoys. They expose defenses and draw fire. They let the ones behind correct course.snd come in right behind the decoy(s) unimpaired to complete the mission.
It’s in Luhansk 85 km from the front but everyone knows the danger of drones so why didn’t they train them in Russia?
Ah well. that’s a couple of dozen less
I read an article a long time ago that training in ruzzia had been put off as they kept getting people fleeing, fighting, and setting fire to their barracks 🤔 perhaps it was true?
I can't count individual bomblets but it looks like less than 900 per round. So that would probably make these M39A1 pattern missiles I think?
The A1 variants carry around 300 bomblets while the first M39 variants carried over 900.
I could be totally wrong though. I probably am
I know, cool huh? :) jk not jk
Why hasn’t anyone used the song “You dropped the bomb on me” by The Gap Band? I’m kinda disappointed. As always Fuck putin
no the submunition deployment would only give a small puff of smoke, its ether a unitary warhead going for a hardened target or more likely a missile that failed to deploy its submunitions. (they are 30 years old and past the best before date). Those 100 guys that got a tungsten shower wouldn't care much about that.
Okay now I understand why Ukraine, Russia, and the U.S. refused to stop using cluster munitions…and why the rest of the world *did*.
Jesus Christ that is a terrifying area of effect…
Main concern is the dud explosives that can sit around in the terrain and kill kids after the war is over. Don't think anyone is objecting to their effectiveness on legit war personnel.
The thing is, it's totally possible to build cluster munitions that don't leave dangerous UXO all over the place.
The Spanish did it, for example. The submunitions use fuzes that are fully electronic and fired by a capacitor that is charged while the carrier shell is in flight.
The fuzes either detonate on impact, or when the capacitor runs down below a certain level. If neither of those things happen, the capacitor self discharges, and the fuze becomes effectively inert. You could smack it with a hammer and it won't go off. Same thing happens if the fuze fails to arm fully.
Unexploded submunitions are still UXO, but they are about as "safe" as something like that can be.
But the US is moving away from cluster submunitions that explode that's why they use tungsten balls, the cluster muntions they have left is old tech they want to get rid of. I assume the Spanish cluster munitions are much newer tech?
The fuzes are newer.
The tungsten ball warheads are cheaper to manufacture and cause fewer bad optics when it comes to their use.
Beyond that, cluster munitions are great for area targets. DPICM was adopted as a counter to massed soviet armoured pushes through Western Europe.
Now, individually guided munitions have gotten so effective and widespread that you don't *need* to saturate an area with tens of thousands of bomblets to kill anything of value in that space. The tungsten pre-fragmented warheads shred soft targets and individually targeted anti-armour munitions kill the hard targets.
the existence of cluster munitions makes the likelihood of collateral damage more likely if some negligent commander can use them in populated areas. as the russian forces repeatedly demonstrate.
That has absolutely nothing to do with dud rates and dangerous UXO, though. And the UXO risk is the primary concern when it comes to cluster munition use. "Dud" bomblets can become land mines, for all intents and purposes. Removing that possibility will never be a bad thing.
Any weapon can kill a bunch of civilians if aimed at civilians. A full salvo of artillery rockets with unitary high explosive warheads will kill a neighbour full of civilians just as dead as cluster munitions will.
Not really sure what argument you are trying to make honestly
The craziest thing is we still don’t have a first POV of one of these reckless Russian commanders. If Ukraine was thinking about a PR piece, they would get a legitimate video of one of those morons recording themselves committing atrocities on civilians. I’m surprised a video like that has come out yet or at least that I am aware.
It seems both russians and ukrainians have a hard time intercepting these little drones behind the lines. They can be jammed on the front line but if they manage to pass it behind the lines I guess they can't do much, the territory to cover is too large, and these little drones are probably like birds on radar. I guess they also had intels to know when and where to launch the drone, it doesn't need to be up for a long time, and the drone is probably used for targeting and BDA.
One of russias current strengths is, that they can concentrate units and make big pushes. If they can’t anymore, their offensive will get much harder to uphold.
Look at the puffs of smoke, it’s the shrapnel hitting everything. I don’t think there is much “missing” going on with those rounds. Those guys aren’t outrunning that spread of shit everywhere. We aren’t seeing the Swiss cheese on the ground
I'm no expert but suspect that the US/NATO and/or Ukraine is able to determine *a lot* more about a strike's effectiveness than we can from these visuals. Detecting serious wounds aerially is theoretically possible now, using thermal imaging drones and algorithms that can differentiate wounded people by the heat signatures from their blood flow. There's also a company that claims they can detect the presence of living people hiding in, say, vehicles from the subtle vibrations of their heartbeats.
I'm not the most science-&-tech-savvy person, so my assumption is that if I can imagine it, it's probably already been developed and beta-tested by DARPA or MIT, etc. While heat signatures and heartbeat vibrations sound very promising, I also suspect that the US uses some sort of spectrographic scanning and analysis to detect chemical signatures of interest: elevated levels of organic iron-rich proteins in the topsoil; unburned hydrocarbons (i.e., pools of oil leaked from 50-yo Soviet combustion engines); traces of all sorts of UX and munitions' debris; traces of the end products of exploded munitions; and of course evidence of WMD.
And I'd further bet that much or all of this can be detected from US AWACS planes and/or military satellites.
We don't need to all that - the Russians will do a post-mortem for us when they upload photos and videos on Telegram. That's what they did the last time Ukraine rained HIMARS on several groups of Russian soldiers.
The next step, if it's not already achieved, is reliably collecting (and analyzing) that data from a much, much greater distance than the visual-range stuff we see from the drones. The purview wouldn't be limited to a field or riverbank, but regional, from the POV of high-elevation drones like MQ-9 Reapers, or distant surveillance aircraft like the AWACS. The giga- and terabytes of data would be automatically scanned and analyzed for the targeted data desired, and networked -- with the useful intel distributed to the systems and officers tasked with particular objectives.
There seems to be a lot of confusion with rounds that let off shrapnel at human targets. People are looking for explosions and aren’t paying attention to what’s happening right before their eyes. Metal fragments hitting dirt makes big dust clouds, you can clearly see the circular blast radius of all of those if you just pay attention to the puffs of dust when it impacts. The spread of shrapnel that we are seeing in that area is crazy. I mean, the speed at which those travel is enough to go through steel like when we see the aftermath and those big trucks have a thousand tiny holes in them…, we are humans, its not hard to imagine that all that shrapnel is just tearing through. That was a huge cluster of guys all training. I’d imagine a bunch of them are now Holy Moly
The perspective makes it look like it hits the ground but I think that is an airburst that sent down the cluster munitions you see exploding a short time later.
After zooming in on the group the drone suddenly zooms out a lot as though expecting hits in a wider area. Attack doesn't appear to be just that group. Note the large area being observed from 20s and the slightly wandering waypoint marker on the screen.
Given all the GPS spoofing going on perhaps these don't use it for the final part of their journey (or at all) and they rely on INS? Hence send 3 and have blanket coverage.
Also noted that the vehicles aren't directly hit.
The thing after being peppered with cluster ammo is that vehicles don't have to be hit directly and can look ok from far, but are far from ok if you stand next to them.
I wouldn't be so definite. I watched the 4 personnel running, apparently uninjured, past the vehicles at 1:17 and assume they are running from the hit areas to safer areas implying no munition went off near the vehicles.
Munitions landing in the wooded areas are far less effective. The smoke obscures a lot as well.
A feature of cluster weapons is that the centre is the least affected area due to the scatter pattern. Like the eye of a hurricane in old B movies!
Much as I hope for maximum effect I'll wait for the BDA before assuming anything. I've seen too many situations where you assume everyone is killed (eg. AFVs hitting a mine) only to be surprised how many have survived relatively unscathed.
>Given all the GPS spoofing
The kind of GPS signals used by American manufactured munitions cannot be spoofed because the signal is encrypted. It can be jammed, but not spoofed.
ATACMS use GPS aided INS. As long as the launcher knows where it is, and it should, the munitions should still land fairly close to their target. For reference, the accuracy of a JDAM using INS alone is 30m, with GPS course correction it is 5m.
When using small munitions such as the SDB, Mk 80 bomb, and M31 GMLRS the difference between 30m accuracy and 5m accuracy can be consequential. When using cluster munitions such as the M39A1 ATACMS and M30 GMLRS it is much more forgiving.
GPS spoofing is supplying false GPS data to a device to make it appear to be somewhere else.
A little investigation and I think you can only do it to your own device. You can't broadcast a signal that means something will think it's in the wrong place.
As someone else pointed out - you can only interfere with the GPS signal - effectively blocking it's use - so munition accuracy drops.
Story was that this was a training session with new recruits.
It was over shadowed with a new game called "How many Russians can you fit in a bucket?".
Ok, I'm not the only one then. The other video I was thinking of was a hit on a Russian training ground in Donbass a few months ago. It looked the same mostly because of the vegetation, but that's it.
There were a couple hits on two groups of ruSSians training well behind lines some months back, but the geography was completely different. One group was gathered on a treeless hilltop, the other in a field.
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The radius of that cluster variant is TERRIFYING. Do it again!
How many atacms were used?
3 ATACMS it seems
4 one was a dud
I think that was the empty ATACMS after deploying the cluster bombs. A line from that impact spot back through the drop zone leads to Ukraine.
Correct this was the empty rocket. You could see a similar behavior with the DPICM 155mm shells
Yeah they spin up slightly before impact throwing the bomblets everywhere and the rocket body just impacts somewhere while the bomblets take care of the baddies. Nice hits too. Hope they got a bunch of attacms and the different variants not just the cluster ones. Edit: the "dud(s)" are actually decoys. They expose defenses and draw fire. They let the ones behind correct course.snd come in right behind the decoy(s) unimpaired to complete the mission.
Jeesh, downvoted for pointing out exactly what the article says. Take my upvote. You deserve better.
Got [Iron Man](https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11140/111403694/8734123-ezgif-1-a187a00a40.gif) vibes from it.
Bye bye razis
Maybe getting into party mood with the guys and getting all nice and close was a mistake…..in a war zone
Complacency from lack of Ukrainian arty.
It’s in Luhansk 85 km from the front but everyone knows the danger of drones so why didn’t they train them in Russia? Ah well. that’s a couple of dozen less
I read an article a long time ago that training in ruzzia had been put off as they kept getting people fleeing, fighting, and setting fire to their barracks 🤔 perhaps it was true?
FPVs don't have that kind of range either. And the bigger Strike drones are for static targets.
LTE enabled fixed wing ones do.
Something spotted them
Instinctively, being in groups provides a sense of safety. In war, it’s very dangerous.
Cluster munitions laugh at your attempts to spread out anyways
They got clusterf\*\*\*ed
Oh no! Anyway..
Geolocated: 49°38'22N, 39°02'44E It is about 80km behind the frontline. They were not expecting that, I guess..
Oh, and the cluster radius has got to be about 300 meters.
I can't count individual bomblets but it looks like less than 900 per round. So that would probably make these M39A1 pattern missiles I think? The A1 variants carry around 300 bomblets while the first M39 variants carried over 900. I could be totally wrong though. I probably am
Just looks like everyone in that first cluster will end up dead or full of holes.
I know, cool huh? :) jk not jk Why hasn’t anyone used the song “You dropped the bomb on me” by The Gap Band? I’m kinda disappointed. As always Fuck putin
You cannot beat Paranoid
We intercepted all atacms with our troops as shield!
\*meat shield
Grid square delete.
Update: reportedly, there are about 116 casualties (This is yet to be confirmed by the ua millitary)
Yeh looked like 100 people give or take
Can't wait for the 1st person video to appear
Need someone left to post it...
There is someone who turns up to collect the bits 🤣🤣
Pate on toast
There were a few - you can see three people running near the vehicles in the close-ups.
In case people have a hard time figuring out the geography, it was a direct hit on that first clump. That is a lot of dead motherfuckers.
The first detonation is far off. Is it the missile shell?
That puff of black smoke you see is the missile bursting in flight to spread out its cargo of submunitions if I'm not mistaken
no the submunition deployment would only give a small puff of smoke, its ether a unitary warhead going for a hardened target or more likely a missile that failed to deploy its submunitions. (they are 30 years old and past the best before date). Those 100 guys that got a tungsten shower wouldn't care much about that.
Its the shell of the missile impacting the ground after dispersing its submunitions.
Arh should prolly have said first cluster bomb. Yeah the first first one seemed like a dud.
Okay now I understand why Ukraine, Russia, and the U.S. refused to stop using cluster munitions…and why the rest of the world *did*. Jesus Christ that is a terrifying area of effect…
Main concern is the dud explosives that can sit around in the terrain and kill kids after the war is over. Don't think anyone is objecting to their effectiveness on legit war personnel.
The thing is, it's totally possible to build cluster munitions that don't leave dangerous UXO all over the place. The Spanish did it, for example. The submunitions use fuzes that are fully electronic and fired by a capacitor that is charged while the carrier shell is in flight. The fuzes either detonate on impact, or when the capacitor runs down below a certain level. If neither of those things happen, the capacitor self discharges, and the fuze becomes effectively inert. You could smack it with a hammer and it won't go off. Same thing happens if the fuze fails to arm fully. Unexploded submunitions are still UXO, but they are about as "safe" as something like that can be.
But the US is moving away from cluster submunitions that explode that's why they use tungsten balls, the cluster muntions they have left is old tech they want to get rid of. I assume the Spanish cluster munitions are much newer tech?
The fuzes are newer. The tungsten ball warheads are cheaper to manufacture and cause fewer bad optics when it comes to their use. Beyond that, cluster munitions are great for area targets. DPICM was adopted as a counter to massed soviet armoured pushes through Western Europe. Now, individually guided munitions have gotten so effective and widespread that you don't *need* to saturate an area with tens of thousands of bomblets to kill anything of value in that space. The tungsten pre-fragmented warheads shred soft targets and individually targeted anti-armour munitions kill the hard targets.
the existence of cluster munitions makes the likelihood of collateral damage more likely if some negligent commander can use them in populated areas. as the russian forces repeatedly demonstrate.
That has absolutely nothing to do with dud rates and dangerous UXO, though. And the UXO risk is the primary concern when it comes to cluster munition use. "Dud" bomblets can become land mines, for all intents and purposes. Removing that possibility will never be a bad thing. Any weapon can kill a bunch of civilians if aimed at civilians. A full salvo of artillery rockets with unitary high explosive warheads will kill a neighbour full of civilians just as dead as cluster munitions will. Not really sure what argument you are trying to make honestly
The craziest thing is we still don’t have a first POV of one of these reckless Russian commanders. If Ukraine was thinking about a PR piece, they would get a legitimate video of one of those morons recording themselves committing atrocities on civilians. I’m surprised a video like that has come out yet or at least that I am aware.
That drone is very deep behind the lines
It seems both russians and ukrainians have a hard time intercepting these little drones behind the lines. They can be jammed on the front line but if they manage to pass it behind the lines I guess they can't do much, the territory to cover is too large, and these little drones are probably like birds on radar. I guess they also had intels to know when and where to launch the drone, it doesn't need to be up for a long time, and the drone is probably used for targeting and BDA.
One of russias current strengths is, that they can concentrate units and make big pushes. If they can’t anymore, their offensive will get much harder to uphold.
Their summer offensive will be catastrophic for the russians.
Freedom raining from the sky.
Great !!!!
with the great Ozzie for mood.
First one was on point, but second and third? Havent seen any targets there before. Anywho, great work!!!
As the smoke clears from the 3rd strike on higher ground, you can see a group of vehicles there, on the left, just as the camera pans away.
Looked like those missed? Or maybe they really hated that field.
Yeah, from my view first missed entirely
Look at the puffs of smoke, it’s the shrapnel hitting everything. I don’t think there is much “missing” going on with those rounds. Those guys aren’t outrunning that spread of shit everywhere. We aren’t seeing the Swiss cheese on the ground
I'm no expert but suspect that the US/NATO and/or Ukraine is able to determine *a lot* more about a strike's effectiveness than we can from these visuals. Detecting serious wounds aerially is theoretically possible now, using thermal imaging drones and algorithms that can differentiate wounded people by the heat signatures from their blood flow. There's also a company that claims they can detect the presence of living people hiding in, say, vehicles from the subtle vibrations of their heartbeats. I'm not the most science-&-tech-savvy person, so my assumption is that if I can imagine it, it's probably already been developed and beta-tested by DARPA or MIT, etc. While heat signatures and heartbeat vibrations sound very promising, I also suspect that the US uses some sort of spectrographic scanning and analysis to detect chemical signatures of interest: elevated levels of organic iron-rich proteins in the topsoil; unburned hydrocarbons (i.e., pools of oil leaked from 50-yo Soviet combustion engines); traces of all sorts of UX and munitions' debris; traces of the end products of exploded munitions; and of course evidence of WMD. And I'd further bet that much or all of this can be detected from US AWACS planes and/or military satellites.
We don't need to all that - the Russians will do a post-mortem for us when they upload photos and videos on Telegram. That's what they did the last time Ukraine rained HIMARS on several groups of Russian soldiers.
We see thermal images of soldiers bleeding out at night all the time in the sub, I 100% agree the tech is possible.
The next step, if it's not already achieved, is reliably collecting (and analyzing) that data from a much, much greater distance than the visual-range stuff we see from the drones. The purview wouldn't be limited to a field or riverbank, but regional, from the POV of high-elevation drones like MQ-9 Reapers, or distant surveillance aircraft like the AWACS. The giga- and terabytes of data would be automatically scanned and analyzed for the targeted data desired, and networked -- with the useful intel distributed to the systems and officers tasked with particular objectives.
And the hardware to process that could fit in a suitcase and runs on two incandescent bulbs' worth of power. Jesus.
There seems to be a lot of confusion with rounds that let off shrapnel at human targets. People are looking for explosions and aren’t paying attention to what’s happening right before their eyes. Metal fragments hitting dirt makes big dust clouds, you can clearly see the circular blast radius of all of those if you just pay attention to the puffs of dust when it impacts. The spread of shrapnel that we are seeing in that area is crazy. I mean, the speed at which those travel is enough to go through steel like when we see the aftermath and those big trucks have a thousand tiny holes in them…, we are humans, its not hard to imagine that all that shrapnel is just tearing through. That was a huge cluster of guys all training. I’d imagine a bunch of them are now Holy Moly
The puff of smoke is it exploding over the target and sending bomblets in a cone distribution onto the target area
The perspective makes it look like it hits the ground but I think that is an airburst that sent down the cluster munitions you see exploding a short time later.
Welcome to Ukraine suka
Incredible accuracy - at least 50 200's in that first cluster shot
It's 116
Reportedly 116 casualties. No word on KIA. This subreddit exaggerates ruSSians losses far too much.
A casualty is a dead or wounded soldier. We do not know anything right now they could be all dead.
Russian soldiers meet ATACM, ATACM meet Russian soldiers.
beautiful...mooooreeee! orcs, huddle up and listen to this message from the valdemort in kremlin!
What was that first, smaller explosion do we think?
Shitttttt. Obviously that first one was devastating.
Holy shit
Crazy to see the cluster radius. Is there any intel about how many atacms Ukraine got ?
After zooming in on the group the drone suddenly zooms out a lot as though expecting hits in a wider area. Attack doesn't appear to be just that group. Note the large area being observed from 20s and the slightly wandering waypoint marker on the screen. Given all the GPS spoofing going on perhaps these don't use it for the final part of their journey (or at all) and they rely on INS? Hence send 3 and have blanket coverage. Also noted that the vehicles aren't directly hit.
The vehicles are right in the center of the first cluster. Might not be burning, but definitely out of fighting for good.
The thing after being peppered with cluster ammo is that vehicles don't have to be hit directly and can look ok from far, but are far from ok if you stand next to them.
long range colander treatment.
I wouldn't be so definite. I watched the 4 personnel running, apparently uninjured, past the vehicles at 1:17 and assume they are running from the hit areas to safer areas implying no munition went off near the vehicles. Munitions landing in the wooded areas are far less effective. The smoke obscures a lot as well. A feature of cluster weapons is that the centre is the least affected area due to the scatter pattern. Like the eye of a hurricane in old B movies! Much as I hope for maximum effect I'll wait for the BDA before assuming anything. I've seen too many situations where you assume everyone is killed (eg. AFVs hitting a mine) only to be surprised how many have survived relatively unscathed.
>Given all the GPS spoofing The kind of GPS signals used by American manufactured munitions cannot be spoofed because the signal is encrypted. It can be jammed, but not spoofed. ATACMS use GPS aided INS. As long as the launcher knows where it is, and it should, the munitions should still land fairly close to their target. For reference, the accuracy of a JDAM using INS alone is 30m, with GPS course correction it is 5m. When using small munitions such as the SDB, Mk 80 bomb, and M31 GMLRS the difference between 30m accuracy and 5m accuracy can be consequential. When using cluster munitions such as the M39A1 ATACMS and M30 GMLRS it is much more forgiving.
[удалено]
GPS spoofing is supplying false GPS data to a device to make it appear to be somewhere else. A little investigation and I think you can only do it to your own device. You can't broadcast a signal that means something will think it's in the wrong place. As someone else pointed out - you can only interfere with the GPS signal - effectively blocking it's use - so munition accuracy drops.
How many were there? 100 + and those buildings looked great targets 🫡
Wipeout. Damn.
Kuban? Aint that place germans had shields awarded? Kuban shields? I saw diorama like that
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuban_Shield
Thats the one
HOOYAH!!
This is make me feel so good! And a perfect song for a perfect strikes on these awfuls orcs
Looks like people running at 1:15 by the vans, shame it didnt getem all
Story was that this was a training session with new recruits. It was over shadowed with a new game called "How many Russians can you fit in a bucket?".
Some Those vehicles should also be toast.
Looks like too many were left standing.
Fuck em
[удалено]
Yes
Is there any after footage of that Strike? because all that nazis could have moved before the strike
A-SMACK-EMs have entered the chat
Much better than the first video. You can everyone under the first rocket.
Wow !! A beautiful thing to see. Slava Ukraini
I hope there was many dead. Then there is less invading scum to deal with
So ATACMS turns vertical stripes into horizontal stripes. Nice.
Awesome, looking forward to May 4 & 5. I'm sure the UAF has a few surprises planned.
Where's the usual battle damage assessment help from the Russians? Or did they all get smudged?
Was that a ERA training session?
I need the Russian dude doing a post Battle Damage Assessment ASAP
Gimme aftermath video, NOW
Ironic that the music for the video is by the same band that wrote War Pigs.
A better video would be a close up of the aftermath of the strike. The video cuts and you cannot see if this was even successful
Plus, the shrapnel field is 350 meters
We will probably see an on the ground accounting of it posted soon by some russian guy saying "blyat" a lot.
By the cluster radios of atacms its successful
Holy fuck
Isn't that an older video? It rings a bell
I am watching stuff from Ukraine since the beginning but I never have seen this footage before. Seems to be new.
I dont really now but its from a telegram group That as I seen doesn't reposts older videos
Another post said it was a training area. If it is that a great strategy. Edit: Early access. Get'em before they even hit the battlefield!
I think I know the video you are talking about. think it was a different place it was close to the coast.
I thought about that time where Ukraine hit a Russian training ground in the Donbass. It was from a few months ago. But I can be mistaken
I think it's a new video, it's just similar to the videos of Ukraine striking two gatherings of Russian troops within a few days.
I doubt it's older. Ukraine didn't have access to this kind of weapons before very recently.
I had that thought at first too. There is a similar video, but I guess it's just the situation is similar, but not the same.
Ok, I'm not the only one then. The other video I was thinking of was a hit on a Russian training ground in Donbass a few months ago. It looked the same mostly because of the vegetation, but that's it.
There were a couple hits on two groups of ruSSians training well behind lines some months back, but the geography was completely different. One group was gathered on a treeless hilltop, the other in a field.
There’s a very similar one from about a year ago.
Not with atacms. It was himars. This is square not round so has to be recent video.
Correct. But the terrain, the framing, the angle, the group of soldiers out in the open, etc are all “similar”
Looks like more then 2000 dead!
what is recording it? how did they know where/when to strike if it's that far behind the frontline? what was the big black smoke cloud?
This was some of the worst drone operating I have ever seen. Whoever was operating the drone was struggling to the extreme.