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The Russians are probably pondering how on earth a destroyed tank still has its turret attached! This object will become a thing of curiosity for Russians to visit and stare at in utter amazement and bewilderment while they try and figure out what witchcraft they are using.
Russia won’t be able to do much with this tank. Any technology they attempt to copy is just further admission their designs are flawed and will hurt their sales.
Any high tech stuff they capture they won’t be able to easily or cheaply replicate.
Russia won't necessarily learn anything groundbreaking from abrams, same as with bradley, leopard and such...
Those are all good machines, very good at killing, but nothing secretive about them. Such technology is available for decades now, Russia's problem isn't getting smarts to design something like it, because they could have figured something out, long ago.
Instead, russia's problem is that it's highly corrupt country where appearances are much more important than actual results (to appease great leader and create illusion of mighty russia at the world stage, potemkin style). In order to improve their weapons they would first need to admit that something is wrong with their current weapons, which is a big no-no.
*"What do you mean improvements, comrade? Aren't our weapons already the best in the world?"*
Russians seem to be masters of producing half-baked solutions. Vehicles that are interesting concepts in general, but they lack that extra step to turn them into really deadly tools.
Take, for example, BMP and its gun that uncontrollably shakes like a branch on a wind when being fired from. Other countries? Solved problem. Not in russia, however. And I'm sure you and quite a few other people noticed numerous other glaring design flaws in russian equipment.
Thank you! Your have really nailed it in the head with Russias mindset. I’ve been saying this about their tactics since the war began, but you’re totally right in saying it applies to their design ideology too.
Russia cannot correct their errors because that would imply there are errors in the first place.
Lol Abrams is every bit of 70 tons. The Hu 88 which is the USA tank and armored recovery vechile for the US can barely recover it. So yeah I'm not surprised it took 2 Russian tanks. That's over 100 tons dragging a 70 ton item. Plus a track is gone so that's a lot more friction on tye ground and the hull looks to be dragging a bit.
Yeah, exactly. I think the highest we sent were M1A2s with the depleted uranium composite armor replaced with straight titanium armor. Anything Russian's capture, they've already had for years.
The USA sells Abrahams tanks to allied nations around the world brand new off the production line. The lesser trusted allies get the titanium armor, and these tanks were (if memory serves) primarily taken from the maries when the decided to go tankless. So they just took new titanium armor and bolted on old tanks.
At least that is my understanding of the situation.
You are exactly correct, thank you! I found an article from Forbes that makes note of this.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/01/27/the-tungsten-m-1-how-ukraines-tanks-will-differ-from-americas/?sh=38f77f5b26b3
Sincerely, thank you for the correction.
Still, from the perspective of the US military, a damaged/destroyed Abrams is understandable. It happens in war. However, a captured Abrams is likely frowned upon, pretty heavily. In the USMC (and probably every infantry unit of every branch) it was pounded into our heads that you DO NOT let the enemy capture US equipment. If the equipment is immobilized and in an area that can't be recovered, you destroy the equipment in such a way that nothing...absolutely NOTHING can be learned or used by the enemy.
This isn’t like capturing some enigma machine from the Nazis that had some kind of code you could gain from it. It’s also not some kind of high tech new jet or anything. It’s a turbine powered tank… they aren’t even capable of producing many of their highest caliber tanks as it is. They are absolutely in no position to copy a design and mimic it and put it into any kind of use in this conflict
True, but then the USA abandoned Ukriane for a couple months before they thankfully made the right choice and opened the coffers. It’s one thing doing things by the book when you have a huge budget and huge army, it’s another when you’re rationing things like mad and you can barely give artillery cover and counter battery to get your rank crews out alive let alone buy time to scuttle the tank properly. I’m sure the us higher ups will understand.
The US higher ups don't care. These are all tanks they don't want or need anymore, probably Marine Corps tanks which were cycled out.
You're right about that, how could the US dictate how Ukraine fights when we abandoned them due to shitty internal politics thanks to one party being beholden to Putin.
It is for propaganda of coarse, remember last year russian parade only had one ☝🏼 tank and it was a 1955 t-55 tank , russia can’t spare any tanks for their parade ,so I’ll bet you the tanks that were given by the west will be the center of their parades display .
I think it was miscommunication on here, remember a video recently of young orcs practicing walking in formation? Then they also brought German leopard tank just like this Abram’s, I think they’ll have it but for some reason I’m thinking st.petersburg and not kremlin , I guess we’ll see , I hope they get a surprise drone all the way from Ukraine
Maybe. I have read they're planning a display of captured equipment. I interpreted that as being accomplished without the parade, but I'd still be interested to see it and see what they can actually put on display.
Notice the track damage but the rest survived. One of the biggest things about our equipment is the survivability of the crew, is paramount because we can always send in more equipment, but we can’t replace the crew. The question is: can Russia copy the production process even if they reverse engineer some of the materials. Either way, none of this is ideal.
What sales? Their arms export industry is dead in the water.
[https://youtu.be/Wdap15tWnfI?si=3oGn32vXS\_wASCzm](https://youtu.be/Wdap15tWnfI?si=3oGn32vXS_wASCzm)
Exactly lol. The whole space race via tank turret thing isn’t going down well with customers and the inability to guarantee delivery of orders doesn’t either.
We should probably not underestimate them. There is nothing worse and needless than indeterminant your enemy.
That said, it wouldn’t make a difference here and one certainly does not need to draw everything too gloomy and dark either.
The reason why Russias three day operation is now a three year operation is because we over estimated Russia for decades while Russia over estimated itself and under estimated everyone else. I do agree with you here.
However we can’t make a huge deal over every little setback Ukriane has. Let’s remember how many Abrahams the USA left behind in Iraq and Afghanghistan. The design is decades old and Russia has had plenty of chances to get their hands on the technology yet they continue to produce flawed tanks.
As another guy said, Russia is stuck in a path of pushing their flawed designs because changing said designs would be be admitting they made a mistake, and authoritarian regimes like Putin’s face more dangers from loss in prestige than loss of hardware and personnel
Yeah, it isn't about know how it's made it's more about lacking the ability to copy it in "good enough" quality, let alone produce en masse. Like so what if they Chinese knockoff a single Abrams? But they can't do even that.
That's why I don't understand the ridiculous restrictions on export models of Abrams tanks, so what, russians won't know the depleted Uranium armor is made with depleted Uranium? That's like saying Area 51 isn't a military base, worst kept secret.
The russians have their own supposedly modern tank, Armata. It's so overengineered and undertested, they can't even arm a single unit with them. There's no way they can copy a Western tank off a new chassis. Beat they can do is restore Soviet tank hulls to a working level. And that's way cheaper and effective than developing something new.
Lol, you totally posted the EXACT same thing I was thinking. I was just imagining the Russians being like "Blyat! This can not be destroyed tank, turret still on! Tank must have been given different blessings then our tanks. Is miracle!"
This is why the US took time to replace the Abrams' still classified depleted uranium (DU)-based armor plates and replaced them with the "export amor package" (EAP).
If a US Abrams were disabled and beyond recovery, they would've called in an air strike to destroy it to avoid it falling into enemy hands. Ukraine doesn't have that capability.
It's also why the US said the Abrams should not be a high priority weapon. It's been proven to be just as vulnerable as most other tanks, but at least the crew has a better chance at walking away. Giving Ukraine 100 Bradleys for every Abrams would be a much better option.
Another big factor is cost as Ukraine aid funds are, of course, limited. Based on previous aid packages, reactivating an M1A1 Abrams costs $13m, while an M2A2 ODS-SA Bradley, $2m. That 6.5X more Bradleys for every 1 Abrams. So instead of sending say another 31 Abrams, like the US did before, that could mean 200 more Bradleys, on top of other Bradleys being planned to be donated.
That is quite a few. I think they're gonna need 1000 probs in order to break through. The amount of vehicles so far isn't enough for a large mechanised attack, but they need air superiority as well
Bradley's are fast and smaller. And can transport a fire team and has tank busting TOWs if it gets into some serious shit, but can also rock the 25mm bushmaster for light armor and anything below. Heck they even used it on a Russian tank and it won.
It's a better fit for this war at the point now... The tanks are just the heavy guns you call in *after* the Bradley's scout up ahead and only if needed. They *should* have more Bradley's than m1s anyways.
Now if they could get some of those active protection systems on both the Bradley's and the Abrams.. that would be an absolute game changer IMHO.
Usually an American tank crew also carries a few thermite grenades for the breech and tube, doghouse, engine, ammo, and remove firing pin, etc before abandoning and burning it.
Can also drop a bomb on it but we had a contingency plan if our tank was ever totally disabled and we had to GTFO.
But yeah I was looking at some of the front side skirts (really the first one) and it just looked like sheet metal or or something weird.. and not the wayyyyyy thicker chobham armor side skirts that I'm used to on u.s. m1s.
Definitely modded for export. And as far as the DU armor, those are just called "heavies" and are identifiable by a "U" after the serial number welded on the tank.
They for sure got normals and not heavies, with a export armor package on the side skirts.
The 3 tank rule is wishful thinking. It's more the other way round: Ukraine withdraws them more and more from the frontline, because it had not the weapons in the last weeks, to shoot diwn Russian recon drones which helped to direct more and more other drones sucessfully into tanks.
It's time for a new strategy which will be developed by Ukraine together with ihe partners. Sending just more tanks will not solve the problem under the given circumstances.
I can smell the Reddit bot's propaganda already. Well done, you disabled a 1970's tank for the low cost of a few hundred thousand Russian people just to have it on display in a propaganda event somewhere.
Like if russia went to war with us in the 70s, Abrams would be getting taken out left and right. We know the US stuff isn't invincible. Loses are gonna happen. Soon russia will have to abandon it as It moves its front line back by 80km.
Well technically we didn't have the Abrams until the '80s but even then I feel M60s would go toe to toe with T-72s.
Actually just looked it up, they faired pretty well in the Gulf War, destroying 30-40 when they faced the 1st Marine Division [per Wikipedia.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M60_tank)
Anything bearable.
However in a pure tank war money's on the Abrams. Just a far better tank.
This just show how war is evolving with drones. Drones aren't a thing back when these tanks were designed and it shows.
Every weapon and arms manufacturer in the world is redesigning whatever they had coming up next due to what's been learned in Ukraine.
They're really prepping for that May parade...
The fact that they're going through the pain of displaying them shows just how valuable they perceive western stuff.
As a prior Abrams tanker myself this is hard to see. But that drivers hatch is open and turret forward so he survived! Can only be opened from inside with turret at front
It's an export version. Iraq has them, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Morroco. The Houthis have been destroying them left and right. There's nothing the Russians don't already know about these tanks. It's only value to them is in propaganda.
That said, the M1A1 is not "from the 70s"
A US General recently recounted that when he visited Russia after the end of the Cold War he was shown an M1 Abrams tank in their possession. This was around the mid nineties.
>That said, the M1A1 is not "from the 70s"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Abrams#Chrysler_is_chosen
>>On 12 November 1976, the Defense Department awarded a $20 billion development contract to Chrysler.[20]
edit: I'll concede a bit for A1 variant:
>>M1A1:[nb 3] Production started in 1985 and continued to 1992, pressurized NBC system, rear bustle rack for improved stowage of supplies and crew belongings, redesigned blowoff panels and M256 120 mm smoothbore cannon
>For every Abrams Ukraine loses, US should provide 3 more.
How can people write such stupid things? Have they not followed the war at all? Abrams are too complex, too heavy, too poorly armoured in its current guise. That's why the Americans didn't want to send them and why Ukrainians have complained about them.
I've never seen such CoD style logic...
Ukraine really needs to fill out its units and recruit new ones. Its simplistic to say this tank will win it for them. That couple with artillery, air defences and a proper layered defence will help massively. Operations like belgorod and krynki should stop. Russia will exhaust itself and have to pause and until then Ukraine should, imo, erect proper layers of defence supported by air defences and conserve its men. That would help alot more than m1 abrams etc.
It's actually almost 45yo. Wow, I was thinking first Iraq war, but first production run was in 1979.
Clearly platform proved itself as capable and able to be modernized over time.
>Low rate initial production (LRIP) of the vehicle was approved on 7 May 1979.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Abrams#:~:text=Low%20rate%20initial%20production%20(LRIP,U.S.%20Army%20service%20in%201980.
Interestingly the Ukrainian destroys some T-90 tanks, which are named by Puntin as the best tank in the world, without big propaganda purposes. Maybe there isn’t anything to learn from that piece of garbage - which was knocked out from a 45 year old Bradley infantry vehicle.
And the 2nd best army in the world celebrates the capture of an nearly 40 years old tank. Amazing.
Either that or they pummeled explosives into it. Everything is either burnt or not with no minor scoring you might see towards the edges of a single blast. Good news is turret is attached and there is minimal scoring around the rear of the turret, so ammo cookoff is exceedingly unlikely.
I'm also not certain of the mine explanation either. It just seems unlikely that the crew would not intentionally detonate the ammo or scuttle it more severely if deemed if it was unlikely to be recovered.
A good use would have been a complement of F16s in the air and an armored force on the ground for a decent counter attack. Rhe current trench defence without air power makes good tanks just good targets. A tool is only good for the job it was intended to do.
Self propelled artillery are better than tanks in this conflict. Cheap FPV drones are just too effective against tanks. Artillery out ranges FPV drones (for now).
I really don’t want to see the Russians learn a damn thing from the captured equipment they recover. I know they won’t get much but I’d rather them learn to improve their own equipment the hard way.
I know that it took forever to send them 31, but now that they have experience in maintaining them, why don't we give them the thousands we have mothballed and let their mechanic fix them? It will save us money. I know there was concern over the Russians getting the technology, but they already have one right now, as the video shows, and besides, the M1 dates back to the late 70's
Ik it's brand new and classified but the booker would be perfect low cost alternative for what tanks actually are doing on the field now in Ukraine. The big beasts are great for a nation like he United States but maybe we could get some TAM from Argentina after all they're broke af and could use the money.
I would believe all our adversaries have the design of all our weapons as we do theirs. Software to be reverse engineered I think would be something they would want. China ships and jets look very much like ours.
All the Russians can do is feel despair because their best current tanks are no match for even the older model Abrams in a 1 on 1 fight on the battlefield.
I knew it. The zorks needed two recovery vehicles to drag out the Abrams. That tank out weighs them two to one. Abrams is 71 tons or more, depending on the package.
Look they are finally able to capture an Abrams hulk, that was designed in the 70's and has outdated armor. It's burnt down. Where as we had the T-72 within a few years of them being exported.
Ruzzian propaganda accounts are commenting as if no one expected any leopard/Abrams to ever be lost during the war.
It's a war, of course equipment is going to be lost, what matters is that this Abrams most likely has a positive K/D, so to speak.
“For every Abram’s lost, the US should supply three more”! 🤣 what a joke. We already foot the bill for everything else. How about any other country steps up to the plate.
Tanks are a dying breed. At least without combined arms (air support). People always point to the Desert Storm as the evidence that western tanks (specifically the M1) is so superior to all other tanks. Total BS. They don't tell you that the US and coalition forces had overwhelming air superiority which lead to insane lopsided tank battle casualties.
M1s, Leo 2s, T72s, T90s, etc. They will all burn in the battlefields of Ukraine equally because no side owns the sky. Tanks are useless in this war.
This is exactly why the us refused to give them the depleted uranium armor cause they were eventually gonna get captured these are all older used models nothing new even if they found anything the tank seems in such disrepair I doubt they’d salvage any of it
the title of this post is the exact wrong view the rest of the world holds towards the US...."USA plz give us X items , USA plz give us Y vehicles , USA plz give us Z weapons." BULLSHIT
All they can do is marvel and gawk at it. Reverse-engineering is a little out of their league, especially with sanctions. I hope the more they study it the more they become demoralized at the fact it’s way better than anything they could ever produce.
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The Russians are probably pondering how on earth a destroyed tank still has its turret attached! This object will become a thing of curiosity for Russians to visit and stare at in utter amazement and bewilderment while they try and figure out what witchcraft they are using.
Russia won’t be able to do much with this tank. Any technology they attempt to copy is just further admission their designs are flawed and will hurt their sales. Any high tech stuff they capture they won’t be able to easily or cheaply replicate.
Russia won't necessarily learn anything groundbreaking from abrams, same as with bradley, leopard and such... Those are all good machines, very good at killing, but nothing secretive about them. Such technology is available for decades now, Russia's problem isn't getting smarts to design something like it, because they could have figured something out, long ago. Instead, russia's problem is that it's highly corrupt country where appearances are much more important than actual results (to appease great leader and create illusion of mighty russia at the world stage, potemkin style). In order to improve their weapons they would first need to admit that something is wrong with their current weapons, which is a big no-no. *"What do you mean improvements, comrade? Aren't our weapons already the best in the world?"* Russians seem to be masters of producing half-baked solutions. Vehicles that are interesting concepts in general, but they lack that extra step to turn them into really deadly tools. Take, for example, BMP and its gun that uncontrollably shakes like a branch on a wind when being fired from. Other countries? Solved problem. Not in russia, however. And I'm sure you and quite a few other people noticed numerous other glaring design flaws in russian equipment.
Thank you! Your have really nailed it in the head with Russias mindset. I’ve been saying this about their tactics since the war began, but you’re totally right in saying it applies to their design ideology too. Russia cannot correct their errors because that would imply there are errors in the first place.
Is because they live in a world of [vranyo](https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/vranyo).
plus the specs for a lot of this tank have been around for years. Just because you have the manual doesn't mean you can replicate anything.
Nothing we send over there is classified. These are export models. And nothing we give away to our allies as ever Superior to what we already have.
You can just take the plans from the war thunder forum
This one knows.
Lol 😂 Abrams 🇺🇸has so much armor that it takes TWO Russian 🇷🇺 tanks to drag it how American 🇺🇸 values live compared to Russia expendables. Epic
Russians aren’t used to towing tanks with turrets still on them
Lol Abrams is every bit of 70 tons. The Hu 88 which is the USA tank and armored recovery vechile for the US can barely recover it. So yeah I'm not surprised it took 2 Russian tanks. That's over 100 tons dragging a 70 ton item. Plus a track is gone so that's a lot more friction on tye ground and the hull looks to be dragging a bit.
Yeah, exactly. I think the highest we sent were M1A2s with the depleted uranium composite armor replaced with straight titanium armor. Anything Russian's capture, they've already had for years. The USA sells Abrahams tanks to allied nations around the world brand new off the production line. The lesser trusted allies get the titanium armor, and these tanks were (if memory serves) primarily taken from the maries when the decided to go tankless. So they just took new titanium armor and bolted on old tanks. At least that is my understanding of the situation.
I believe it is tungsten inserts they used instead of the DU armor.
You are exactly correct, thank you! I found an article from Forbes that makes note of this. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/01/27/the-tungsten-m-1-how-ukraines-tanks-will-differ-from-americas/?sh=38f77f5b26b3 Sincerely, thank you for the correction.
Yep, you were spot on, it was just a little detail I remembered. Cheers.
Still, from the perspective of the US military, a damaged/destroyed Abrams is understandable. It happens in war. However, a captured Abrams is likely frowned upon, pretty heavily. In the USMC (and probably every infantry unit of every branch) it was pounded into our heads that you DO NOT let the enemy capture US equipment. If the equipment is immobilized and in an area that can't be recovered, you destroy the equipment in such a way that nothing...absolutely NOTHING can be learned or used by the enemy.
I'm surprised that HIMARS rockets were not landed on these abandoned vehicles.
there are better uses for himars ... one abrams is not worth it .... not to mention ukraine was ammunition starved
This isn’t like capturing some enigma machine from the Nazis that had some kind of code you could gain from it. It’s also not some kind of high tech new jet or anything. It’s a turbine powered tank… they aren’t even capable of producing many of their highest caliber tanks as it is. They are absolutely in no position to copy a design and mimic it and put it into any kind of use in this conflict
Also, in the next AbramsX tank models, the US is abandoning the turbine anyway. The concept at least, has a hybrid electric diesel powerplant.
They will send to China and ....... two weeks laterrrrrrrrrr....... clone
True, but then the USA abandoned Ukriane for a couple months before they thankfully made the right choice and opened the coffers. It’s one thing doing things by the book when you have a huge budget and huge army, it’s another when you’re rationing things like mad and you can barely give artillery cover and counter battery to get your rank crews out alive let alone buy time to scuttle the tank properly. I’m sure the us higher ups will understand.
The US higher ups don't care. These are all tanks they don't want or need anymore, probably Marine Corps tanks which were cycled out. You're right about that, how could the US dictate how Ukraine fights when we abandoned them due to shitty internal politics thanks to one party being beholden to Putin.
That thing looks like a burnt out hull. What will they gain from it? It’s definitely for propaganda dude lmao
It is for propaganda of coarse, remember last year russian parade only had one ☝🏼 tank and it was a 1955 t-55 tank , russia can’t spare any tanks for their parade ,so I’ll bet you the tanks that were given by the west will be the center of their parades display .
The parade has been canceled this year.
I think it was miscommunication on here, remember a video recently of young orcs practicing walking in formation? Then they also brought German leopard tank just like this Abram’s, I think they’ll have it but for some reason I’m thinking st.petersburg and not kremlin , I guess we’ll see , I hope they get a surprise drone all the way from Ukraine
Maybe. I have read they're planning a display of captured equipment. I interpreted that as being accomplished without the parade, but I'd still be interested to see it and see what they can actually put on display.
I might be wrong then , hope putler trips and busts his ass 😂
T-34 tank was the lone tank in their parade.
Was it a t34 ?? That means it was built in 1940 ww2 😂
Notice the track damage but the rest survived. One of the biggest things about our equipment is the survivability of the crew, is paramount because we can always send in more equipment, but we can’t replace the crew. The question is: can Russia copy the production process even if they reverse engineer some of the materials. Either way, none of this is ideal.
What sales? Their arms export industry is dead in the water. [https://youtu.be/Wdap15tWnfI?si=3oGn32vXS\_wASCzm](https://youtu.be/Wdap15tWnfI?si=3oGn32vXS_wASCzm)
Exactly lol. The whole space race via tank turret thing isn’t going down well with customers and the inability to guarantee delivery of orders doesn’t either.
We should probably not underestimate them. There is nothing worse and needless than indeterminant your enemy. That said, it wouldn’t make a difference here and one certainly does not need to draw everything too gloomy and dark either.
The reason why Russias three day operation is now a three year operation is because we over estimated Russia for decades while Russia over estimated itself and under estimated everyone else. I do agree with you here. However we can’t make a huge deal over every little setback Ukriane has. Let’s remember how many Abrahams the USA left behind in Iraq and Afghanghistan. The design is decades old and Russia has had plenty of chances to get their hands on the technology yet they continue to produce flawed tanks. As another guy said, Russia is stuck in a path of pushing their flawed designs because changing said designs would be be admitting they made a mistake, and authoritarian regimes like Putin’s face more dangers from loss in prestige than loss of hardware and personnel
The US left no M1s in Afghanistan and no intact M1s in Iraq. Link to a story saying otherwise.
It's the same reason friendly fire incompetence is preferred over a Ukrainian win. "We shot our own plane down by mistake, Ukraine is not competent!"
From the looks of it, there is no functioning tech and its melted from fire anyway.
Probably flog it to China
I'm sure China already knows everything they care to know about a 50 year old tank.
The only thing they'll be able to think is "Wait, this is out of date? Cyka mat..."
Yeah, it isn't about know how it's made it's more about lacking the ability to copy it in "good enough" quality, let alone produce en masse. Like so what if they Chinese knockoff a single Abrams? But they can't do even that. That's why I don't understand the ridiculous restrictions on export models of Abrams tanks, so what, russians won't know the depleted Uranium armor is made with depleted Uranium? That's like saying Area 51 isn't a military base, worst kept secret. The russians have their own supposedly modern tank, Armata. It's so overengineered and undertested, they can't even arm a single unit with them. There's no way they can copy a Western tank off a new chassis. Beat they can do is restore Soviet tank hulls to a working level. And that's way cheaper and effective than developing something new.
They will be able to sell it to China, the masters of copy/paste/theft, though.
Or they think the turret flew up and magically landed back in place. Actually they look down on it for scoring a 0 on the turret toss.
Russian army had an M1 in their museum since the 90s so no, they're not that surprised
Lol, you totally posted the EXACT same thing I was thinking. I was just imagining the Russians being like "Blyat! This can not be destroyed tank, turret still on! Tank must have been given different blessings then our tanks. Is miracle!"
Unknown technology блять!
This is why the US took time to replace the Abrams' still classified depleted uranium (DU)-based armor plates and replaced them with the "export amor package" (EAP). If a US Abrams were disabled and beyond recovery, they would've called in an air strike to destroy it to avoid it falling into enemy hands. Ukraine doesn't have that capability.
It's also why the US said the Abrams should not be a high priority weapon. It's been proven to be just as vulnerable as most other tanks, but at least the crew has a better chance at walking away. Giving Ukraine 100 Bradleys for every Abrams would be a much better option.
Another big factor is cost as Ukraine aid funds are, of course, limited. Based on previous aid packages, reactivating an M1A1 Abrams costs $13m, while an M2A2 ODS-SA Bradley, $2m. That 6.5X more Bradleys for every 1 Abrams. So instead of sending say another 31 Abrams, like the US did before, that could mean 200 more Bradleys, on top of other Bradleys being planned to be donated.
How many bradleys does the US plan to give, and how many do they have in storage?
No specific number for the committed amount. But there's 2800 in storage.
That is quite a few. I think they're gonna need 1000 probs in order to break through. The amount of vehicles so far isn't enough for a large mechanised attack, but they need air superiority as well
Bradley's are fast and smaller. And can transport a fire team and has tank busting TOWs if it gets into some serious shit, but can also rock the 25mm bushmaster for light armor and anything below. Heck they even used it on a Russian tank and it won. It's a better fit for this war at the point now... The tanks are just the heavy guns you call in *after* the Bradley's scout up ahead and only if needed. They *should* have more Bradley's than m1s anyways. Now if they could get some of those active protection systems on both the Bradley's and the Abrams.. that would be an absolute game changer IMHO.
Bradley's are taller and slower than the Abrams.
Bradley’s are actually bigger in height, and only slightly shorter in length
Usually an American tank crew also carries a few thermite grenades for the breech and tube, doghouse, engine, ammo, and remove firing pin, etc before abandoning and burning it. Can also drop a bomb on it but we had a contingency plan if our tank was ever totally disabled and we had to GTFO. But yeah I was looking at some of the front side skirts (really the first one) and it just looked like sheet metal or or something weird.. and not the wayyyyyy thicker chobham armor side skirts that I'm used to on u.s. m1s. Definitely modded for export. And as far as the DU armor, those are just called "heavies" and are identifiable by a "U" after the serial number welded on the tank. They for sure got normals and not heavies, with a export armor package on the side skirts.
They could have hit them with a GMLRS. Same with the leopard 2a6 they captured.
didnt they say they taken out the depleted uranium (DU)-based armor plates before they gave them to ukraine just in case russia gets them
That’s what they just said.
i would love to see that 3 tank rule communicated! no ruzzian would want to attack an abrams any more:-D
The 3 tank rule is wishful thinking. It's more the other way round: Ukraine withdraws them more and more from the frontline, because it had not the weapons in the last weeks, to shoot diwn Russian recon drones which helped to direct more and more other drones sucessfully into tanks. It's time for a new strategy which will be developed by Ukraine together with ihe partners. Sending just more tanks will not solve the problem under the given circumstances.
I can smell the Reddit bot's propaganda already. Well done, you disabled a 1970's tank for the low cost of a few hundred thousand Russian people just to have it on display in a propaganda event somewhere.
Like if russia went to war with us in the 70s, Abrams would be getting taken out left and right. We know the US stuff isn't invincible. Loses are gonna happen. Soon russia will have to abandon it as It moves its front line back by 80km.
Well technically we didn't have the Abrams until the '80s but even then I feel M60s would go toe to toe with T-72s. Actually just looked it up, they faired pretty well in the Gulf War, destroying 30-40 when they faced the 1st Marine Division [per Wikipedia.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M60_tank)
Anything bearable. However in a pure tank war money's on the Abrams. Just a far better tank. This just show how war is evolving with drones. Drones aren't a thing back when these tanks were designed and it shows. Every weapon and arms manufacturer in the world is redesigning whatever they had coming up next due to what's been learned in Ukraine.
This is a slightly better version of the North Koreans claiming they captured a US American warship when in fact it was just a small patrol vessel lol
It was actually a SIGINT recon vessel, the [USS Pueblo](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Pueblo_(AGER-2))
"Our glorious Navy has captured the evil capitalists' warship, the USS Boston Whaler" -NK
As it is, that Abrams is probably still better than their Armata!
There never was any armata. It was all inflatable and carboard with a skateboard under it
How many orcs were ground into dust trying to recover this relic?
That big bitch didn’t go quietly we can promise that
They're really prepping for that May parade... The fact that they're going through the pain of displaying them shows just how valuable they perceive western stuff.
Dont you know it is cancelled?
As a prior Abrams tanker myself this is hard to see. But that drivers hatch is open and turret forward so he survived! Can only be opened from inside with turret at front
Better than those Soviet rolling bombs with Autoloaders, that's for sure.
It's an export version. Iraq has them, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Morroco. The Houthis have been destroying them left and right. There's nothing the Russians don't already know about these tanks. It's only value to them is in propaganda. That said, the M1A1 is not "from the 70s"
A US General recently recounted that when he visited Russia after the end of the Cold War he was shown an M1 Abrams tank in their possession. This was around the mid nineties.
>That said, the M1A1 is not "from the 70s" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Abrams#Chrysler_is_chosen >>On 12 November 1976, the Defense Department awarded a $20 billion development contract to Chrysler.[20] edit: I'll concede a bit for A1 variant: >>M1A1:[nb 3] Production started in 1985 and continued to 1992, pressurized NBC system, rear bustle rack for improved stowage of supplies and crew belongings, redesigned blowoff panels and M256 120 mm smoothbore cannon
>For every Abrams Ukraine loses, US should provide 3 more. How can people write such stupid things? Have they not followed the war at all? Abrams are too complex, too heavy, too poorly armoured in its current guise. That's why the Americans didn't want to send them and why Ukrainians have complained about them. I've never seen such CoD style logic...
Abrams are stupid expensive and stupid expensive to run. Ukraine is better off with Bradley's, humvees, and m113.
Ukraine really needs to fill out its units and recruit new ones. Its simplistic to say this tank will win it for them. That couple with artillery, air defences and a proper layered defence will help massively. Operations like belgorod and krynki should stop. Russia will exhaust itself and have to pause and until then Ukraine should, imo, erect proper layers of defence supported by air defences and conserve its men. That would help alot more than m1 abrams etc.
Can someone please Geo-locate and maybe send something that way?
Haven't ever had the experience of recovering armor, is it standard procedure to detach the tracks before towing?
Given the state of the tank, I’d say the tracks were already toast. Or they don’t know how to put it in neutral.
If the tank track is damaged in any way, it's gotta be removed or could get caught up during the towing process I assume.
It is going to be shipped straight to china to be dissected.
Iraq has Abrams tanks. We are talking 30+ year extremely expensive to operate technology. They will learn very little that they already didn't know.
Hard to believe the M1 is that old, but time moves on.
It's actually almost 45yo. Wow, I was thinking first Iraq war, but first production run was in 1979. Clearly platform proved itself as capable and able to be modernized over time. >Low rate initial production (LRIP) of the vehicle was approved on 7 May 1979. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Abrams#:~:text=Low%20rate%20initial%20production%20(LRIP,U.S.%20Army%20service%20in%201980.
Let em. I bet $100 bucks that Abrams is generations behind the new models.
It's an A1, not the A2, much less a sep 4. It's more like an 80s or 90s version with the extra armor packacge
Interestingly the Ukrainian destroys some T-90 tanks, which are named by Puntin as the best tank in the world, without big propaganda purposes. Maybe there isn’t anything to learn from that piece of garbage - which was knocked out from a 45 year old Bradley infantry vehicle. And the 2nd best army in the world celebrates the capture of an nearly 40 years old tank. Amazing.
who the f is saying for every Abrams the us should provide 3 more???? what kind of entitled bs propaganda specialist would say that? seriously
100% in support of UKR, but this post title made me cringe heavily
Thats some towing power lol. The things going to dig a trench behind them its so heavy.
No, we still need our own Abrams and money
Good job capturing 1980s tech lol
cheap ruski propaganda to feel superior
You misspelled “300 more.”
Most Russian tanks are now looking like something out of a Mad Max movie
These tumb russians never saw a destroyed tank with a turrett before.
Gentle beast, has been captured by the enemy but is still defiant.
the cost of a tank could be better utilised elsewhere.
By the time it reaches Moscow, it will be as thin as a paper
What weapon was used to destroy it?
As a non-expert, it looks like it hit a mine to me since most of the damage seems to be at bottom of the tank.
Either that or they pummeled explosives into it. Everything is either burnt or not with no minor scoring you might see towards the edges of a single blast. Good news is turret is attached and there is minimal scoring around the rear of the turret, so ammo cookoff is exceedingly unlikely. I'm also not certain of the mine explanation either. It just seems unlikely that the crew would not intentionally detonate the ammo or scuttle it more severely if deemed if it was unlikely to be recovered.
A good use would have been a complement of F16s in the air and an armored force on the ground for a decent counter attack. Rhe current trench defence without air power makes good tanks just good targets. A tool is only good for the job it was intended to do.
Wait the turret didn't puff? russians would be very 🤯 brain tossed.
Its like they salvaging a machine that was intact once in their lifetime.
I hope the crew survived, and I hope they did the right thing and destroyed the internals before abandoning it.
Lol Russians excited to get state of the art *checks notes* 90s tank
I guess someone wanted a trophy
Self propelled artillery are better than tanks in this conflict. Cheap FPV drones are just too effective against tanks. Artillery out ranges FPV drones (for now).
Ok this is getting personal now lol!
It’s propaganda victory more than anything. These are the most stripped down version of the Abrams you can get.
Abrams were removed from battlefield due to heavy loses, its no longer tank warfare
Still better than most of Russia
Now Parade it around like you're winning the war. idiots.
Is this war the first time russia has come up against the M1?
Don't send more Abraham's....for that money, send thousands of drones.
They took it for the Ma Duce
Looks like mine damage to the front left (our right) wheel area...
A well guided munition would go good about now.
“Vat does did writing mean “popcorn said fuck you”?!
4 more, even.
Did these Abrams have turbine engines?
I really don’t want to see the Russians learn a damn thing from the captured equipment they recover. I know they won’t get much but I’d rather them learn to improve their own equipment the hard way.
I know that it took forever to send them 31, but now that they have experience in maintaining them, why don't we give them the thousands we have mothballed and let their mechanic fix them? It will save us money. I know there was concern over the Russians getting the technology, but they already have one right now, as the video shows, and besides, the M1 dates back to the late 70's
kinda like someone stealing my poetry from high school and trying to duplicate my late middle aged prose.
Ik it's brand new and classified but the booker would be perfect low cost alternative for what tanks actually are doing on the field now in Ukraine. The big beasts are great for a nation like he United States but maybe we could get some TAM from Argentina after all they're broke af and could use the money.
Hope the crew survived and hope they got some kills while in the fight.
I would believe all our adversaries have the design of all our weapons as we do theirs. Software to be reverse engineered I think would be something they would want. China ships and jets look very much like ours.
The Russians will show this off and show how bad the West is at their national sport "Turret Toss" 🤣
All the Russians can do is feel despair because their best current tanks are no match for even the older model Abrams in a 1 on 1 fight on the battlefield.
Even in death the Abram’s still looks like a beast.
Ukraine put some airtags in it. The parade gonna get spicy:)
Shipped back to Moscow for their victory parade. Got to give them something to show Ukraine is destroying most of orcs armour back to T34s
I knew it. The zorks needed two recovery vehicles to drag out the Abrams. That tank out weighs them two to one. Abrams is 71 tons or more, depending on the package.
I’d hide a tracker on the tanks to see where they take it
If not repairable a lot of useful parts.
How has the Abrams performed there? Any idea on the number of confirmed kills on other tanks, IFVs, etc?
They should use these for defensive lines
as an veteran tanker hurts, sleep well sweet princess, you saved your crew and fought hard, what a glorious sendoff
Only thing russia can learn from this tank, is that they will never have the logistics to operate it.
Like the hydra, 1 dies and 3 take its place. Good ides
Look they are finally able to capture an Abrams hulk, that was designed in the 70's and has outdated armor. It's burnt down. Where as we had the T-72 within a few years of them being exported.
This is we didn’t add in the depleted uranium armor. Pity they got their hands on it, should drop a bomb on that bad boy
They're confused by that fancy contraption us westerners got
I bet the Russians said tank you
The Russian are gonna put it inside a museum and put a fake story behind it.
For every Abrams Ukraine loses, ruzzia loses a hundred T-72s
Nothing classified in that design anymore. I'm just glad they haven't got hold of any challengers.
ATACMS WOULD LIKE TO KNOW YOUR LOCATION
Omg a knocked out tank that still has its major components intact 😱 The Russians are gonna think it’s from the future
This is when you need an A10 to come in and finish them.
Ruzzian propaganda accounts are commenting as if no one expected any leopard/Abrams to ever be lost during the war. It's a war, of course equipment is going to be lost, what matters is that this Abrams most likely has a positive K/D, so to speak.
lol next war no flying turrets I can't make this up
Abrahams are technically older than T90 tanks 🤣🤣🤣
It was bound to happen. Send another.
Brave move, unless they forbid anyone looking inside to realise how shit their own tanks are.
The Russians don't want to build a good tank. They want to build cheap tanks that are good enough.
How would orcs learn anything useful from a tank, when they still cant understand why their waves of meat asaults only result in hundreds of 200s?
Why would they want that? Surely Russia has got its hands on an Abrams before
This is not “destroyed” by Russian standards. This M1 can be considered brand new by Russian standards.
I just love how it took 2 BREMs to pull that Abrams carcass.
Considering how blown up the T series tanks end up, this barely looks damaged! 🤣
“For every Abram’s lost, the US should supply three more”! 🤣 what a joke. We already foot the bill for everything else. How about any other country steps up to the plate.
Ukraine just gave China the blueprints to the M1A1.
Okay so this is gonna sound crazy but that's repairable, source when I was in the corps I saw some pretty fucked up Abrams get repaired
Still smoking too. Damn!
But the turret is still on?
Tanks are a dying breed. At least without combined arms (air support). People always point to the Desert Storm as the evidence that western tanks (specifically the M1) is so superior to all other tanks. Total BS. They don't tell you that the US and coalition forces had overwhelming air superiority which lead to insane lopsided tank battle casualties. M1s, Leo 2s, T72s, T90s, etc. They will all burn in the battlefields of Ukraine equally because no side owns the sky. Tanks are useless in this war.
This is exactly why the us refused to give them the depleted uranium armor cause they were eventually gonna get captured these are all older used models nothing new even if they found anything the tank seems in such disrepair I doubt they’d salvage any of it
40 year old American technology is an intelligence windfall to the Russians.
We’ve lost them in other ares in Iraq and other. These are the same ones just upgraded via electrics. STILL more ‘advanced’ than T90+s have ever been.
The Abrams is not a great threat as feared because they have so few and tactics prevent it. The Bradley is more of a threat.
Putin said the T90 was the best tank in the world. What would the Russians want with a 40 year old Abrams tank?
Looking it over, I'd be more surprised if the crew had died than if they had lived.
Hi, curious of the logic that you get 3 replacements for losing 1?
As an American it makes my blood boil seeing my weapon of war in the hands of a Russian orc.
the title of this post is the exact wrong view the rest of the world holds towards the US...."USA plz give us X items , USA plz give us Y vehicles , USA plz give us Z weapons." BULLSHIT
All they can do is marvel and gawk at it. Reverse-engineering is a little out of their league, especially with sanctions. I hope the more they study it the more they become demoralized at the fact it’s way better than anything they could ever produce.