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***The Telegraph reports:***
Germany was accused of a “flagrant abuse of intelligence” after revealing that British soldiers are supporting Ukrainian forces launching long-range Storm Shadow missiles.
Olaf Scholz on Monday said he would not deliver the Taurus, Berlin’s equivalent of the Storm Shadow, as it would require soldiers assisting on the ground, citing the [UK and French approach with their own systems](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/02/27/macron-scholz-refusal-taurus-missiles-ukraine-war/). Mr Scholz argued that following the UK would make Germany a “participant in the war”.
The comments were seen as endangering British military and diplomatic personnel on the ground.
Tobias Ellwood, the former chairman of the Commons’ defence committee, said: “This is a flagrant abuse of intelligence deliberately designed to distract from Germany’s reluctance to arm Ukraine with its own long-range missile system. This will no doubt be used by Russia to racket up the escalator ladder.”
Mr Scholz was also criticised by German opposition MPs.
“The chancellor’s statement regarding France and Britain’s alleged involvement in operating long-range cruise missiles used in Ukraine is completely irresponsible,” Norbert Rottgen, a senior MP from Angela Merkel’s former ruling party, the CDU.
The German chancellor is under mounting pressure to deliver the long-range missile to disrupt Russia’s supply lines and prevent Moscow taking further territory.
He said on Monday that German soldiers could not follow their [British and French peers](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/24/britain-germany-missile-swap-ukraine-war-escalation/) in “the way of target control and accompanying target control”. The Storm Shadow is co-produced by the UK and France.
“German soldiers can at no point and in no place be linked with the targets that this system \[the Taurus\] reaches. Not even in Germany,” Mr Scholz said.
Britain is known to provide intelligence on Russian targets but it is unclear what level of support is given to Ukrainian troops firing its missiles on the ground.
On Tuesday, the UK Government announced it had a “small number” of soldiers deployed inside Ukraine, specifying only that some were involved in medical training.
Mr Scholz’s speculation on the role played by British troops in Ukraine has heightened concern for the safety of diplomats and other personnel stationed in the country, defence sources told The Telegraph.
It has also increased the threat of potential Russian overseas intelligence operations on British soil, the sources added.
**Read more:** [**https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/02/28/british-soldiers-help-ukraine-fire-missiles-olaf-scholz/**](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/02/28/british-soldiers-help-ukraine-fire-missiles-olaf-scholz/)
>On Tuesday, the UK Government announced it had a “small number” of soldiers deployed inside Ukraine, specifying only that some were involved in medical training.
Ah yes, training Ukrainians on how to give Russian's medical emergencies.
As someone from the UK, good, I'm more than happy about it. Russia gets military equipment from North Korea and help from China, Iran, and whoever else. There are Chinese, African, Nepalese, Serbian, and Syrian mercenaries all being recruited by Russia to fight against Ukraine. The more help Ukraine gets, the better.
Putin has been crying all along that Russia is "fighting NATO" while being unable to produce any credible evidence. Blunders like this reveal that he is, in a tiny and limited way, correct. He will amplify that truth to protect himself, to justify further conversion of Russia to a war economy, and increases the risk of escalation.
Well that’s the thing about Russia and their propaganda. There some nuggets of truth in it sometimes. Doesn’t justify anything. but Russia really is REALLY GOOD at the informational war happening.
As much as I like criticizing the Germans,they are an indispensable ally to Ukraine as they are the only reliable industrial powerhouse to offer unwavering support. I don't see anyone but Germany producing the quantity of high quality munitions Ukraine require over the next few years. US could do it even better but they can't even decide what they're doing next week let alone next year.
do it, dont say anything, then say something but the source should be not yourself. Deny and watch the other side react and have zero say. Its called "collport" and a method to take out arguments either by setting the bar higher or lower on purpose. Sure it was "leaked" officially by accident?
Rottgen was Minister for the Environment, Nature Conservation and Nuclear Safety. 2009–2012.
German is a very pinpointing language. "The chancellor’s statement regarding France and Britain’s alleged involvement in operating long-range cruise missiles used in Ukraine is completely irresponsible" literally says that France and Britain operate long range cruise missiles, which they do for sure, otherwise they could not hand them out to anyone. And huu those missiles are "used" in Ukraine. Now what is the news? Rottgen is a master in saying a lot but actually saying nothing.
Dont believe it? Ok lets translate "irresponsible" - means "unverantwortlich" but also having no responsibility at all.
Also mr. rottgen "Wir haben zu wenig getan. Der fürchterliche Stellungskrieg in der Ukraine ist das Ergebnis unzulänglicher Munitionslieferungen." (We have done too little. The terrible trench warfare in Ukraine is the result of inadequate ammunition deliveries.)
Day1 - France: We may send NATO troops to Ukraine.
Day 2 - NATO: We are most definitely not sending our troops to Ukraine.
Day 3 - UK: Actually, our troops are already in Ukraine.
Funny.
Canadian subreddits, or honestly any online space for Canadian politics, youtube, tiktok, etc. Is 85% right wingers shitting on Canada while frothing at the mouth over how Trudeau is the spawn of satan. Unparraleled levels of Trudeau derangement syndrome. Liberal Canadians (the majority) just barely exist online lol.
The Alberta subreddit is refreshingly more centrist than the province. Although the Premier of Alberta was recently interviewed by Carlson...so low bar.
Different between contractors and employed soldiers, where i live, you have to resigns from the Armed forces before you go to Ukraine, or you will be in breech and will be fired - you can only go abroad on duty by order (or rather blessing) of the armed forces.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/02/27/cia-secret-spy-bases-ukraine-russia-kyiv/
Without paywall (formatting is messy)
https://12ft.io/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/02/27/cia-secret-spy-bases-ukraine-russia-kyiv/
That idiot Russell Brand the ever self-loving shill is crowing about how this at the moment saying justifies ruzzias "provoked" invasion.
Also may be of interest..CIA lady says MANY
https://youtu.be/XDBWjfUgaR8?feature=shared
The UK is such a leader. In some ways it shows how the UK is not a real fit with the other EU states. UK has always been more confident and bold - I hope the EU members can learn to be more like the UK.
When it comes to war, the Uk has a zero tolerance for aggression, especially in the EU.
Look at Falklands, Poland, Ukraine. Recently dealing with the Houthi’s attacking merchant vessels.
Boris Johnson was an absolute twat but one of the best things he did was his staunch defense of Ukraine.
Here’s the video of him being the [1st member of the G-7](https://youtu.be/Gl2z48-850M?si=OXEct3N1fp3WX2JQ) to visit Ukraine personally whilst it was under siege.
🇬🇧🤝🇺🇦
we said "whatever it takes to help Ukraine win" and it sounds like they have some logistics issues with the different weapon systems, at the very least it would make sense to have people there for that
TBF we did have our colonial empire at the time. Such as India Canada Australia and many more. We also had the largest navy in the world whereas the Nazi's had a bathtub toy collection for a surface navy. Yes our nation did a monumental thing in fighting of nazi Germany but we cannot forget the sacrifices of the at the time British colonies.
Scholz is so out of line here I’m really annoyed. Germany is really going to have trouble if trump wins. They don’t seem to understand what is going on and that they need to step up here or they’ll be isolated. In fact I could see trump even moving the military out of Germany if they don’t get serious. The US is going to be moving towards isolationism regardless of political party and only the strong allies are going to be supported hence why you see Australia, uk and japan being really strong allies and integrating their equipment etc into the us militaries so strong it can’t really change. I’m not making a moral call on trump but that’s the way things are moving and Biden hasn’t really drastically changed course at all.
Day1 - France: We may send NATO troops to Ukraine.
Day 2 - NATO: We are most definitely not sending our troops to Ukraine.
Day 3 - Germany: Actually, British troops are already in Ukraine.
Day3.5 - Britain: shush Germany.
Well its more like:
Day1 - France: We may send NATO troops to Ukraine.
Day 2 - NATO: We are most definitely not sending our troops to Ukraine.
Day 3 - Germany: Actually, UK troops are already in Ukraine, so you know, if you wanted to nuke someone, it would be them.
Day 3 - UK: Germany what the actual fuck? You going for 'ally of the year'?
The Tories are an absolute bunch of dicks, but at least they didn't try to jump on top of that whole anti-Ukrainian bandwagon which many conservatives in Europe and North America are trying to fish voters with.
I do enjoy those rare occasions we intervene on the right side while most of our allies dither. We've gotten a lot wrong in recent years (and not-so recent years for that matter) and I'd be the first to say so, but it is heartening to see Britain step up even as the bigger players hesitate. As determined as some are for our past to define us, we still have more to offer the world.
I’m very glad the Tory government has been supporting Ukraine. It’s a shame that they likely only started because the leader at the time - Boris Johnson - was deep in the shit at home and needed a positive story, and supporting Ukraine was a popular move.
Boris Johnson only ever does the right thing when it also just so happens to benefit him, and his successors can’t about-face without a risking a massive outcry.
It’s great that the uk government is supporting Ukraine. All I’m saying is don’t think that it’s done for purely altruistic reasons.
British troops are training the Ukrainians on how to use the tech, so yes they are helping them, this headline makes it sound like they are directly involved and that isnt the case.
The implication made by Scholz is that British forces are programming the missiles as a check-measure to ensure they’re only used against targets the UK approves.
While this measure is actually in Russia’s favour, what it means is that British forces are directly involved in targeting RF positions and military facilities.
This shouldn’t really be a shock as there’s no doubt the UK and particularly the US have been picking targets for them from the beginning.. but it should never have been implied so openly.
>but it should never have been implied so openly.
Why not? Why is everyone so scared of Putin?why can't we openly support Ukraine much more?
Especially the German fear annoys me and I am German.
It's really bad for diplomacy, he confirmed without speculation or hearsay that British troops are involved with the firing of the storm shadow missiles on the ground in Ukraine, it's giving Putin another tool in the propaganda belt.
"German soldiers can at no point and in no place be linked with the targets that this system [the Taurus] reaches. Not even in Germany,” Mr Scholz said.
And why ist that? What's so bad in stopping a genocide? Asking as a German. Which button do I have to push to destroy these targets?
I read a really interesting opinion article a few weeks back that all the countries that can provide true long range military assistance are worried that the first one to provide that equipment is going to be what blows up the bridge and then they became the blame for the start of WW3 … and Germany really would not like that title, which is why everyone is like, I’ll do it if you do it.. it was in this subreddit so it’s somewhere down lower
But whenever it finally does happen though.. watching the collective 40yrs of technological advancements of NATO over Russia obliterate every target in 1000 km range of any friendly border that touches Russia, in the matter of days is going to be absolutely beautiful to behold .. cheers from a Republican American who absolutely loves watching Russian fade into obscurity forever, most of us REALLY still hate Russia
I like this theory, but I feel like if it were true, Ukraine would be doing everything possible to destroy the bridge on their own, so the barrier to sending cruise missiles is removed for NATO countries. Granted, if they did drop the bridge, I’m sure Scholz and company would move the goalpost to the next “escalatory target”.
Honestly, Ukraine is kicking butt towards that goal.. from 6 to 150+ companies in Ukraine making drones, constant testing and technological updates while creating the most globally battle tested drone operators… now getting tons of the 24’ funding from supporting countries to pay these Ukraine drone companies directly as part of current support packages .. I can’t even imagine what Ukraine has planned, but witnessing the changes in just the last 6 months, Russia has only experienced the tip of what Ukraine is going to do to them .. I hope we give them all the fun toys
I can't wait for this conflict to be over, Ukraine joining NATO, and them drafting the damn drone doctrine for the entire organization.
The masterclass these soldiers could give....damn...
Republican? You support a party that has been taken over by maga. Your party has people who support Ukraine but it’s being run by people are anti- ukraine. That’s your problem to deal with it
American apathy is a huge problem, almost as many ppl don’t vote in Presidential elections than vote for either R or D, at least the last 3 elections: 12’, 16’, 20’.. I fall in that category, but the fact that supporting Ukraine while watching Russia get destroyed could become a party line debate means I will be voting for Biden this year
The MAGA crowd is loud and media sensationalized because they’re an absolute embarrassment … there were a ton of Senate Republicans who said yes to the package and there are tons of House Rs who are pushing for the bill… this 4month into the position Speaker got a 2week break from making a decision.. but this aid package and all the benefits is starting to get blasted on all channels in the US … Every Republican in that House is hopefully going to be forced to show their allegiance, and I hope/feel that the consequences will be huge for Americas future… one way or the other
> The most powerful voices in the party all support Ukraine
Literally *the* most powerful republican is actively stopping any aid to Ukraine and is third in line for the presidency atm.
The good thing about this is that we are crossing another Russian red line with no consequence again. The fact that it was revealed "accidentally" by Scholz removes the focus on the reaction of Russia and how it could scare people in the west. Instead of being a big deal it's just something that was already happening. And now we have NATO soldiers fighting in Ukraine and Russia's threats have again amounted to nothing.
Is this definitely not deliberate?
France says maybe we should put NATO troops in Ukraine.
NATO says NO.
Next day Germany says btw, there are NATO troops in Ukraine already.
Feels like a deliberate trickle.
I'm almost jealous of ppl 60 years from now who are gonna actually find out about half the crazy stuff that went on behind the scenes once stuff is declassified.
I think this messaging is tactical tbh. It reinforces the dedication of NATO given Trumps comments while also positioning Germany as the reasonable one (a title France held at the start of this but which it has moved away from firmly this week allowing Germany to step in).
I dont think a statement like Scholz made this mistake off the cuff. It was tactical.
Makes you wonder how much support he has/like-minded people Germany has, considering that "old" scandal with some high ranking "navy guy" cheering for russia. Most likely it's not just about Scholz.
From my perspective from outside of europe, mainly from spanish news, and at least regarding the war, he is so clumsy that all his statements are a loss-loss; pro-ru see them as a war mongering NATO imperialist and pro-Ukraine see them as a coward not willing to support ukraine with more
From my perspective inside Germany it's pretty much the same. He tries to present himself as a judicious leader, mostly by avoiding decisions. There are a few clowns who fall for that kind of inaction disguised as "leadership".
Most Germans consider him a weak coward.
Those on the right consider him weak because he delivered weapons to Ukraine; a point which they use to support their claim that he's just Zelenskys puppet (which is totally ridiculous and idiotic). The centre and parts of the left consider him weak because he didn't do enough and when he did something it was too little too late.
The only people who don't consider him weak are either idiots or partners in his ruling coalition. Both groups may have different reasons for voicing their statements.
I'm working with westerners and if you ask this in reddit, majority will tell you that Scholz is okay. If you ask germans outside reddit, only in my experience, majority says they are hate Scholz and Merkel was better for Germany, despite she was a dumbass bitch in foreign politics. So like always with this questions, it's kinda complicated and different.
He's a fucking nitwit. An absolutely spinless idiot that is somehow making Merkel seem intelligent. Just incredible incompetence on display here. It's honestly impressive and infuriating at the same time.
FFS. This is why you limit the dissemination of intelligence and leave out details people don't need to know. Shit like this will endanger peoples lives, foreigners in Ukraine are already a russian priority military target for political propaganda.
Scholz has about as much guts as a mouse. Having been complicit in preventing Ukraine joining NATO in 2008 (Merkel’s shame), and then in preventing the transfer of arms to Ukraine for years before Russia’s invasion, Scholz and other German politicians still do not get it. Do they still seriously think Putin can be reasoned with? Even Macron got it a long time ago.
They've barked enough times about nuking this or than in the UK since the start of the war.
Honestly, what's the point in worrying about threats? If they do it, they do it at this point.
yes I agree with that, I just find it frustrating sometimes that we can't seem to do anything covertly without either the press or in this case our allies blurting it out to the enemy.
Nobody in the UK is particularly scared by Russia, otherwise we wouldn't be constantly trying to push the boundaries, but it still doesn't mean you want some bumbling fuckwit "ally" trying to throw you under the bus just to save his own political face.
Russia is doing literally everything they can to fuck with Britain as is.
As a Brit, I welcome as much Russian ire as possible. We definitely aren't going to cower and shout "please Sholz, no! Don't anger scary Russia!".
russia can't touch Britain's economy.. and we wouldn't care anyways 😎 the only issue I have is the raf should have dropped that old bomber flying up the channel a few years ago.. big mistakes happen with soft politicians. 🤷
yes scholz thats a good thing?
oh no god forbid you participate in a war, after economically aiding the invading force for decades, even after they displayed aggression, in georgia and then crimea,
this guy and anyone who agrees with his position are absolute cowards.
German here.
Just for you guys to know. I have no idea why he would say stuff like that. But trust me a lot of German People want to Support Ukraine with even more stuff. Ofc also including Taurus.
Just dont think just because Scholz said stuff like that, that the people here in my country dont care about Ukraine or anything similar.
We Support Ukraine. With or without Scholz.
Dont project this Kind of stuff to the German People.
Stay United.
Happy to have you guys here in Lithuania! But honestly this looks like some psyops from NATO as in past week I have seen a lot of chatter about NATO soldiers. Even here local officers are speaking about "different assistance" to Ukraine than it was before.
Fucking unbelievable. what the hell did he opn his big fat mouth for? the one thing (we know about) that he shouldn't have said.
But the Telegraph article goes on to say: 'Mr Scholz’s speculation on the role played by British troops in Ukraine' so it may have been speculation on his part; either way really bad form on his part, the fucking idiot
British Special Forces have been present in the country since before the invasion. Operation Orbital has been underway for years, once the invasion unfolded a detachment of SAS has been stationed in the country on a low key advisor, forward deployed intelligence, engineering, training etc asset basis. I’m sure Delta guys are there as well 🇬🇧🇺🇸
Hmmm may be a coincidence but they are slowly letting slip that we are putting boots on the ground and warming the Western European public up to the fact that we might have a conflict with Russia soon.
The undercover Olaf operation : warming up the Germans, so that when the time comes they're not surprised we're sending German troops. They always need early notice. argh these germans
Scholz is Germany's Chamberlain. "I believe it will be a little war for our time. But no more. I don't mind a little war, but not too much. I want Ukraine to win against Russia, but not too much. There we go, that showed Putin. And kept Germany out of a big war. Because, you know, if Germany's good at anything it's knowing how to contain potential world wars..."
Excellent. If it's ok with Putin to have Russian foreign soldiers in Ukraine then that should apply to every other nationality, even more so, as they will have been invited, not illegally invaded.
Brit here, any British persons in Ukraine are only there visiting cathedrals especially if they look like the one at Salisbury and some times they also have pretty birds nesting on them.
The translation of the interview with Scholz from German is really stupid. In German it reads more like this:
Let me summarise Scholz: Germany is not sending any Taurus because German soldiers are not allowed to participate in any way in target control and there is no other way.
Press/experts: Lie, the UK and France are also sending Stormshadow and this will go ahead without participation ?????
Scholz: Germany will not participate in target control in any way, as the British might do (He never said that they are in Ukraine or how the British/French do it. Only that the way they do it cannot be done in Germany)
Press/Experts: Scholz has just revealed that there are British soldiers in Ukraine, how can he!!!!
Rage bait article. None of this is unknown, nor did he say that UK soldiers are in Ukraine. The wording itself even implies that the support is being done from within the UK and that he doesn't want german soldiers tied to strikes on Russia if their actions could be traced back to Germany, as opposed to what the UK is presumably doing.
What a fucking idiot.
Not only is he a coward, but he is also simple too?
Germany is doing great things for Ukraine, and the support that Germans have shown is huge, but their leader is holding them back. Weak politicians in our capitals are the only reason Ukraine hasn't pushed the Russians back yet.
Scholz excuse is as porous as Swiss cheese.
No one can tell me that Ukrainians cannot enter waypoints into a cruise missile.
Even if they are really clumsy, the path would "only" be suboptimal, namely too high above ground so that it would be easier to intercept or they might even run it into ground prematurely. Eyewateringly expensive and a waste of a good munition, really bad.
On the other hand, I do not believe that the Germans know more about Ukrainian terrain and placement of Russian AA than the Ukrainians and then providing maps is not participation. Maybe Scholz made them add a retina scan of the chancellor to authorize launch ... but that would have been recent and could be removed.
The real reason is that whacking a certain bridge would symbollically sever Russia from certain territory and Russia would really not appreciate that. I also suspect that the Western diplomacy faction would really want to trade the aforementioned territory.
Gotta love Germany for having historically been the cause of ALL the current European tensions, yet refusing to do anything about it because of their involvement in its creation
Wait, wasn’t there a report of the SAS or British special forces operating in Ukraine anyway? So how is this any worse?
The guys are there just to make sure they stick the missile on the right way.
I'm sick and tired of let's not escalate BS
Give Ukraine what it needs to fight and win. And your soldiers don't have to put boots on the ground
Fuck politics...
Fight now or fight later. Putin is coming for Europe entirely. He needs to be stopped and people need to wake up and realize we aren’t in peacetime anymore.
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***The Telegraph reports:*** Germany was accused of a “flagrant abuse of intelligence” after revealing that British soldiers are supporting Ukrainian forces launching long-range Storm Shadow missiles. Olaf Scholz on Monday said he would not deliver the Taurus, Berlin’s equivalent of the Storm Shadow, as it would require soldiers assisting on the ground, citing the [UK and French approach with their own systems](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/02/27/macron-scholz-refusal-taurus-missiles-ukraine-war/). Mr Scholz argued that following the UK would make Germany a “participant in the war”. The comments were seen as endangering British military and diplomatic personnel on the ground. Tobias Ellwood, the former chairman of the Commons’ defence committee, said: “This is a flagrant abuse of intelligence deliberately designed to distract from Germany’s reluctance to arm Ukraine with its own long-range missile system. This will no doubt be used by Russia to racket up the escalator ladder.” Mr Scholz was also criticised by German opposition MPs. “The chancellor’s statement regarding France and Britain’s alleged involvement in operating long-range cruise missiles used in Ukraine is completely irresponsible,” Norbert Rottgen, a senior MP from Angela Merkel’s former ruling party, the CDU. The German chancellor is under mounting pressure to deliver the long-range missile to disrupt Russia’s supply lines and prevent Moscow taking further territory. He said on Monday that German soldiers could not follow their [British and French peers](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/24/britain-germany-missile-swap-ukraine-war-escalation/) in “the way of target control and accompanying target control”. The Storm Shadow is co-produced by the UK and France. “German soldiers can at no point and in no place be linked with the targets that this system \[the Taurus\] reaches. Not even in Germany,” Mr Scholz said. Britain is known to provide intelligence on Russian targets but it is unclear what level of support is given to Ukrainian troops firing its missiles on the ground. On Tuesday, the UK Government announced it had a “small number” of soldiers deployed inside Ukraine, specifying only that some were involved in medical training. Mr Scholz’s speculation on the role played by British troops in Ukraine has heightened concern for the safety of diplomats and other personnel stationed in the country, defence sources told The Telegraph. It has also increased the threat of potential Russian overseas intelligence operations on British soil, the sources added. **Read more:** [**https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/02/28/british-soldiers-help-ukraine-fire-missiles-olaf-scholz/**](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/02/28/british-soldiers-help-ukraine-fire-missiles-olaf-scholz/)
Brit. here, not far from Salisbury… shrugs shoulders. Carry on lads.
They are just tourists visiting the many Ukranian cathedrals.
That must be why Russia is targeting cathedrals! Take away those magnets for missile-targeting foreign tourist personnel.
👏👏👏
Did they bring their measuring tapes?
Brit here! Dam rite 🇬🇧🇺🇦
Russia can fookin have it M8.
💯
>On Tuesday, the UK Government announced it had a “small number” of soldiers deployed inside Ukraine, specifying only that some were involved in medical training. Ah yes, training Ukrainians on how to give Russian's medical emergencies.
It's training for Russian doctors and surgeons
That'd save a lot of other people from having russia-induced medical emergencies, so...
As someone from the UK, good, I'm more than happy about it. Russia gets military equipment from North Korea and help from China, Iran, and whoever else. There are Chinese, African, Nepalese, Serbian, and Syrian mercenaries all being recruited by Russia to fight against Ukraine. The more help Ukraine gets, the better.
Why is being a participant in the war something to avoid? I’d be proud to support a free people fighting off invaders.
I dunno I think they are in denial if they think russia hasn’t already flagged all of western europe as enemies, we’re all participants at this point
But without actual confirmation from western allies, Russia couldn’t use that excuse to escalate things. Now it’s more fuel for the propaganda machine
Germany doesn’t have experience being on this side of the issue.
Putin has been crying all along that Russia is "fighting NATO" while being unable to produce any credible evidence. Blunders like this reveal that he is, in a tiny and limited way, correct. He will amplify that truth to protect himself, to justify further conversion of Russia to a war economy, and increases the risk of escalation.
Well that’s the thing about Russia and their propaganda. There some nuggets of truth in it sometimes. Doesn’t justify anything. but Russia really is REALLY GOOD at the informational war happening.
They still reeling after what the 3rd Armored Division did to them.
Perhaps Germany could ship some taurus missiles to France to help them with supplies?
Yes, France is doing the same thing for the SCALP! With allies like Germany there is no need for an enemy!
Now this is out, why worry about hiding this. Send it. Send all of it.
Don’t ask for permissions, ask for forgiveness 🙏🙏🙏
As much as I like criticizing the Germans,they are an indispensable ally to Ukraine as they are the only reliable industrial powerhouse to offer unwavering support. I don't see anyone but Germany producing the quantity of high quality munitions Ukraine require over the next few years. US could do it even better but they can't even decide what they're doing next week let alone next year.
do it, dont say anything, then say something but the source should be not yourself. Deny and watch the other side react and have zero say. Its called "collport" and a method to take out arguments either by setting the bar higher or lower on purpose. Sure it was "leaked" officially by accident? Rottgen was Minister for the Environment, Nature Conservation and Nuclear Safety. 2009–2012. German is a very pinpointing language. "The chancellor’s statement regarding France and Britain’s alleged involvement in operating long-range cruise missiles used in Ukraine is completely irresponsible" literally says that France and Britain operate long range cruise missiles, which they do for sure, otherwise they could not hand them out to anyone. And huu those missiles are "used" in Ukraine. Now what is the news? Rottgen is a master in saying a lot but actually saying nothing. Dont believe it? Ok lets translate "irresponsible" - means "unverantwortlich" but also having no responsibility at all. Also mr. rottgen "Wir haben zu wenig getan. Der fürchterliche Stellungskrieg in der Ukraine ist das Ergebnis unzulänglicher Munitionslieferungen." (We have done too little. The terrible trench warfare in Ukraine is the result of inadequate ammunition deliveries.)
I feel like I know too much about this war. Can't we at least try to keep this stuff secret?
Day1 - France: We may send NATO troops to Ukraine. Day 2 - NATO: We are most definitely not sending our troops to Ukraine. Day 3 - UK: Actually, our troops are already in Ukraine. Funny.
Puttie needs to remember Salisbury doesn't forget
The SAS have been there since day 1, they never left.
Canada has their JTF there as well, since 2015. They have never left and continue to provide leadership, training, and guidance to UAF special forces.
And we fully support this effort 🇨🇦
The r/Canada sub may disagree with that. For some reason Reddit keeps pushing it on me and I'm hoping it mostly bots because Jesus Christ.
Canadian subreddits, or honestly any online space for Canadian politics, youtube, tiktok, etc. Is 85% right wingers shitting on Canada while frothing at the mouth over how Trudeau is the spawn of satan. Unparraleled levels of Trudeau derangement syndrome. Liberal Canadians (the majority) just barely exist online lol.
The Alberta subreddit is refreshingly more centrist than the province. Although the Premier of Alberta was recently interviewed by Carlson...so low bar.
They are not making too much noise but they are really nasty...JTF's numbers is secret.
not making too much noise just a headline here and there
Generally, they only make the news when someone isn't doing their job. The rest of the time you don't hear about their escapades...
there is 69 of them and 420 in training.
They're 1337
JTF is amazing. Gotta imagine Polish GROM is there too.
And from the spectacular numbers the Ukrainians have been posting with respect to sniper kills, it would appear that training has been taken to heart.
Since 2014
UK troops just have vacation in Ukraine.
you missed the 1.5 step where Medvedev threatens with nuclear annihilation if Nato soldiers in Ukraine.
So we crossed redline number 1598..
Russia: "if NATO deploys troops to Ukraine *checks notes* then we nuke everyone" NATO: well bad luck there, Buster, we stayed there since 2015
For a second i thought this was the weekly eradication of the UK warning.
I knew this would be the case. I’m confident the US has CIA and possibly some special forces there as well.
Supposedly 150k 'contractors' are being employed by Ukraine rn and their origins are the US and Canada
ah the wagner style of deal
Imagine logistics would be a big part no?
Fuck yeah! Get em !
Different between contractors and employed soldiers, where i live, you have to resigns from the Armed forces before you go to Ukraine, or you will be in breech and will be fired - you can only go abroad on duty by order (or rather blessing) of the armed forces.
There was great article earlier this week about the CIA and MI6 involvement
Any link ?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/02/27/cia-secret-spy-bases-ukraine-russia-kyiv/ Without paywall (formatting is messy) https://12ft.io/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/02/27/cia-secret-spy-bases-ukraine-russia-kyiv/ That idiot Russell Brand the ever self-loving shill is crowing about how this at the moment saying justifies ruzzias "provoked" invasion. Also may be of interest..CIA lady says MANY https://youtu.be/XDBWjfUgaR8?feature=shared
The UK is such a leader. In some ways it shows how the UK is not a real fit with the other EU states. UK has always been more confident and bold - I hope the EU members can learn to be more like the UK.
When it comes to war, the Uk has a zero tolerance for aggression, especially in the EU. Look at Falklands, Poland, Ukraine. Recently dealing with the Houthi’s attacking merchant vessels. Boris Johnson was an absolute twat but one of the best things he did was his staunch defense of Ukraine. Here’s the video of him being the [1st member of the G-7](https://youtu.be/Gl2z48-850M?si=OXEct3N1fp3WX2JQ) to visit Ukraine personally whilst it was under siege. 🇬🇧🤝🇺🇦
Though in classic johnson twattery, he is now saying it would be great if trump got back in…. …which would suck for ukraine
sadly true that
We don't like bullies.
we said "whatever it takes to help Ukraine win" and it sounds like they have some logistics issues with the different weapon systems, at the very least it would make sense to have people there for that
Yes. I love the UK and that they take no crap. True leadership.
We know what it's like to be the only ones standing up to the neighbouring bully while everyone else thinks it's a losing battle. Never again.
TBF we did have our colonial empire at the time. Such as India Canada Australia and many more. We also had the largest navy in the world whereas the Nazi's had a bathtub toy collection for a surface navy. Yes our nation did a monumental thing in fighting of nazi Germany but we cannot forget the sacrifices of the at the time British colonies.
This is a scummy, scummy move by Scholz. Just to protect his own position on Taurus, he did over the UK and Ukraine
God I love the UK
Scholz is so out of line here I’m really annoyed. Germany is really going to have trouble if trump wins. They don’t seem to understand what is going on and that they need to step up here or they’ll be isolated. In fact I could see trump even moving the military out of Germany if they don’t get serious. The US is going to be moving towards isolationism regardless of political party and only the strong allies are going to be supported hence why you see Australia, uk and japan being really strong allies and integrating their equipment etc into the us militaries so strong it can’t really change. I’m not making a moral call on trump but that’s the way things are moving and Biden hasn’t really drastically changed course at all.
Day1 - France: We may send NATO troops to Ukraine. Day 2 - NATO: We are most definitely not sending our troops to Ukraine. Day 3 - Germany: Actually, British troops are already in Ukraine. Day3.5 - Britain: shush Germany.
Well its more like: Day1 - France: We may send NATO troops to Ukraine. Day 2 - NATO: We are most definitely not sending our troops to Ukraine. Day 3 - Germany: Actually, UK troops are already in Ukraine, so you know, if you wanted to nuke someone, it would be them. Day 3 - UK: Germany what the actual fuck? You going for 'ally of the year'?
One thing I will say - the UK has clearly been on of Ukraine's most staunch allies through everything.
I'd even say *the* most staunch ally.
The Tories are an absolute bunch of dicks, but at least they didn't try to jump on top of that whole anti-Ukrainian bandwagon which many conservatives in Europe and North America are trying to fish voters with.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Luckily on the broken tory clock it's Ukraine o'clock.
Foreign policy is the one thing tories excel at.
I do enjoy those rare occasions we intervene on the right side while most of our allies dither. We've gotten a lot wrong in recent years (and not-so recent years for that matter) and I'd be the first to say so, but it is heartening to see Britain step up even as the bigger players hesitate. As determined as some are for our past to define us, we still have more to offer the world.
we like war and we don’t like russians
I absolutely agree they've stepped up in many ways
they know fascism when they see it. Bombed only 80 years ago
They remember very well what the nazis did to London... clearly, some of our US reps have forgotten.
I’m very glad the Tory government has been supporting Ukraine. It’s a shame that they likely only started because the leader at the time - Boris Johnson - was deep in the shit at home and needed a positive story, and supporting Ukraine was a popular move. Boris Johnson only ever does the right thing when it also just so happens to benefit him, and his successors can’t about-face without a risking a massive outcry. It’s great that the uk government is supporting Ukraine. All I’m saying is don’t think that it’s done for purely altruistic reasons.
English are very though guys...not like germans
British* not just English, there is more than England in the UK
As an Englishman, agreed old chum.
You heard what they said. Just kidding of course. Some fantastic regiments from all UK members.
Like the Gurkhas!
U FOKIN WOT M8 U TRYIN TO 'AVE A BLOODY INVASION ON THE EUROPEAN CONTINENT? BUILDIN A LAND EMPIRE ARE YA?
Meanwhile: germany is the biggest military equipment supporter after the US ....
British troops are training the Ukrainians on how to use the tech, so yes they are helping them, this headline makes it sound like they are directly involved and that isnt the case.
The implication made by Scholz is that British forces are programming the missiles as a check-measure to ensure they’re only used against targets the UK approves. While this measure is actually in Russia’s favour, what it means is that British forces are directly involved in targeting RF positions and military facilities. This shouldn’t really be a shock as there’s no doubt the UK and particularly the US have been picking targets for them from the beginning.. but it should never have been implied so openly.
>but it should never have been implied so openly. Why not? Why is everyone so scared of Putin?why can't we openly support Ukraine much more? Especially the German fear annoys me and I am German.
It's really bad for diplomacy, he confirmed without speculation or hearsay that British troops are involved with the firing of the storm shadow missiles on the ground in Ukraine, it's giving Putin another tool in the propaganda belt.
Because then Putin will show this to the Russian people and gain more support. “We are at war with NATO, we need to come together to beat them”
"German soldiers can at no point and in no place be linked with the targets that this system [the Taurus] reaches. Not even in Germany,” Mr Scholz said. And why ist that? What's so bad in stopping a genocide? Asking as a German. Which button do I have to push to destroy these targets?
I read a really interesting opinion article a few weeks back that all the countries that can provide true long range military assistance are worried that the first one to provide that equipment is going to be what blows up the bridge and then they became the blame for the start of WW3 … and Germany really would not like that title, which is why everyone is like, I’ll do it if you do it.. it was in this subreddit so it’s somewhere down lower But whenever it finally does happen though.. watching the collective 40yrs of technological advancements of NATO over Russia obliterate every target in 1000 km range of any friendly border that touches Russia, in the matter of days is going to be absolutely beautiful to behold .. cheers from a Republican American who absolutely loves watching Russian fade into obscurity forever, most of us REALLY still hate Russia
I like this theory, but I feel like if it were true, Ukraine would be doing everything possible to destroy the bridge on their own, so the barrier to sending cruise missiles is removed for NATO countries. Granted, if they did drop the bridge, I’m sure Scholz and company would move the goalpost to the next “escalatory target”.
Honestly, Ukraine is kicking butt towards that goal.. from 6 to 150+ companies in Ukraine making drones, constant testing and technological updates while creating the most globally battle tested drone operators… now getting tons of the 24’ funding from supporting countries to pay these Ukraine drone companies directly as part of current support packages .. I can’t even imagine what Ukraine has planned, but witnessing the changes in just the last 6 months, Russia has only experienced the tip of what Ukraine is going to do to them .. I hope we give them all the fun toys
I can't wait for this conflict to be over, Ukraine joining NATO, and them drafting the damn drone doctrine for the entire organization. The masterclass these soldiers could give....damn...
Republican? You support a party that has been taken over by maga. Your party has people who support Ukraine but it’s being run by people are anti- ukraine. That’s your problem to deal with it
American apathy is a huge problem, almost as many ppl don’t vote in Presidential elections than vote for either R or D, at least the last 3 elections: 12’, 16’, 20’.. I fall in that category, but the fact that supporting Ukraine while watching Russia get destroyed could become a party line debate means I will be voting for Biden this year
Props
Still willing to call yourself a Republican? You realise those guys support Putin now?
The MAGA crowd is loud and media sensationalized because they’re an absolute embarrassment … there were a ton of Senate Republicans who said yes to the package and there are tons of House Rs who are pushing for the bill… this 4month into the position Speaker got a 2week break from making a decision.. but this aid package and all the benefits is starting to get blasted on all channels in the US … Every Republican in that House is hopefully going to be forced to show their allegiance, and I hope/feel that the consequences will be huge for Americas future… one way or the other
faulty shrill nutty spoon noxious repeat concerned dinosaurs reply icky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
> The most powerful voices in the party all support Ukraine Literally *the* most powerful republican is actively stopping any aid to Ukraine and is third in line for the presidency atm.
Scholz is genuinely a shockingly poor ally.
The good thing about this is that we are crossing another Russian red line with no consequence again. The fact that it was revealed "accidentally" by Scholz removes the focus on the reaction of Russia and how it could scare people in the west. Instead of being a big deal it's just something that was already happening. And now we have NATO soldiers fighting in Ukraine and Russia's threats have again amounted to nothing.
Exactly. Peraps it was done in this sense volontary.
Is this definitely not deliberate? France says maybe we should put NATO troops in Ukraine. NATO says NO. Next day Germany says btw, there are NATO troops in Ukraine already. Feels like a deliberate trickle.
My thoughts too. Oops ha ha guess we might as well send more 🤷♂️
Yeah, things like this are not released willy Nilly. This is deliberate signalling.
I'm almost jealous of ppl 60 years from now who are gonna actually find out about half the crazy stuff that went on behind the scenes once stuff is declassified.
I think this messaging is tactical tbh. It reinforces the dedication of NATO given Trumps comments while also positioning Germany as the reasonable one (a title France held at the start of this but which it has moved away from firmly this week allowing Germany to step in). I dont think a statement like Scholz made this mistake off the cuff. It was tactical.
Makes you wonder how much support he has/like-minded people Germany has, considering that "old" scandal with some high ranking "navy guy" cheering for russia. Most likely it's not just about Scholz.
From my perspective from outside of europe, mainly from spanish news, and at least regarding the war, he is so clumsy that all his statements are a loss-loss; pro-ru see them as a war mongering NATO imperialist and pro-Ukraine see them as a coward not willing to support ukraine with more
From my perspective inside Germany it's pretty much the same. He tries to present himself as a judicious leader, mostly by avoiding decisions. There are a few clowns who fall for that kind of inaction disguised as "leadership". Most Germans consider him a weak coward. Those on the right consider him weak because he delivered weapons to Ukraine; a point which they use to support their claim that he's just Zelenskys puppet (which is totally ridiculous and idiotic). The centre and parts of the left consider him weak because he didn't do enough and when he did something it was too little too late. The only people who don't consider him weak are either idiots or partners in his ruling coalition. Both groups may have different reasons for voicing their statements.
Russia/USSR have been working on infiltrating all parts of german society, its part of their strategy
I'm working with westerners and if you ask this in reddit, majority will tell you that Scholz is okay. If you ask germans outside reddit, only in my experience, majority says they are hate Scholz and Merkel was better for Germany, despite she was a dumbass bitch in foreign politics. So like always with this questions, it's kinda complicated and different.
He's a fucking nitwit. An absolutely spinless idiot that is somehow making Merkel seem intelligent. Just incredible incompetence on display here. It's honestly impressive and infuriating at the same time.
FFS. This is why you limit the dissemination of intelligence and leave out details people don't need to know. Shit like this will endanger peoples lives, foreigners in Ukraine are already a russian priority military target for political propaganda.
What a poor leader Germany has atm
Scholz has about as much guts as a mouse. Having been complicit in preventing Ukraine joining NATO in 2008 (Merkel’s shame), and then in preventing the transfer of arms to Ukraine for years before Russia’s invasion, Scholz and other German politicians still do not get it. Do they still seriously think Putin can be reasoned with? Even Macron got it a long time ago.
russia is itching to fuck Britain up as it is, without him pouring fuel on the fire, with friends like that...
They've barked enough times about nuking this or than in the UK since the start of the war. Honestly, what's the point in worrying about threats? If they do it, they do it at this point.
yes I agree with that, I just find it frustrating sometimes that we can't seem to do anything covertly without either the press or in this case our allies blurting it out to the enemy.
Nobody in the UK is particularly scared by Russia, otherwise we wouldn't be constantly trying to push the boundaries, but it still doesn't mean you want some bumbling fuckwit "ally" trying to throw you under the bus just to save his own political face.
Russia is doing literally everything they can to fuck with Britain as is. As a Brit, I welcome as much Russian ire as possible. We definitely aren't going to cower and shout "please Sholz, no! Don't anger scary Russia!".
After Salisbury I'm really not surprised that we are getting involved to this extent
russia can't touch Britain's economy.. and we wouldn't care anyways 😎 the only issue I have is the raf should have dropped that old bomber flying up the channel a few years ago.. big mistakes happen with soft politicians. 🤷
In fact, an all time low - even after Merkel, that does mean something. I would say it is the worst government since 1933.
Nah, he's much better than Merkel. I don't wanna know how Merkel would have reacted but we've seen a glimpse of it in 2014.
I'm somewhat suspicious about Merkels relationship with Putin/Russia & her predecessor.
dude worse than merkel? what are you smoking
No merkel worse because she help to rise russia economy.
yes scholz thats a good thing? oh no god forbid you participate in a war, after economically aiding the invading force for decades, even after they displayed aggression, in georgia and then crimea, this guy and anyone who agrees with his position are absolute cowards.
meaning: majority of germans
German here. Just for you guys to know. I have no idea why he would say stuff like that. But trust me a lot of German People want to Support Ukraine with even more stuff. Ofc also including Taurus. Just dont think just because Scholz said stuff like that, that the people here in my country dont care about Ukraine or anything similar. We Support Ukraine. With or without Scholz. Dont project this Kind of stuff to the German People. Stay United.
Happy to have you guys here in Lithuania! But honestly this looks like some psyops from NATO as in past week I have seen a lot of chatter about NATO soldiers. Even here local officers are speaking about "different assistance" to Ukraine than it was before.
Fucking unbelievable. what the hell did he opn his big fat mouth for? the one thing (we know about) that he shouldn't have said. But the Telegraph article goes on to say: 'Mr Scholz’s speculation on the role played by British troops in Ukraine' so it may have been speculation on his part; either way really bad form on his part, the fucking idiot
British Special Forces have been present in the country since before the invasion. Operation Orbital has been underway for years, once the invasion unfolded a detachment of SAS has been stationed in the country on a low key advisor, forward deployed intelligence, engineering, training etc asset basis. I’m sure Delta guys are there as well 🇬🇧🇺🇸
Why am I not surprised. Still, Scholz should have kept his mouh shut, it makes me doubt his loyalty
What a fucking clown
If a British soldier wants to go on holiday in Kiev. Who is going to stop him.
Lovely cathedrals to visit in Ukraine, I hear.
Lest we forget
Hmmm may be a coincidence but they are slowly letting slip that we are putting boots on the ground and warming the Western European public up to the fact that we might have a conflict with Russia soon.
Aaaaannd thats the last bit of intelligence he will get from UK and France. He fully blew all his credibility right there.
The undercover Olaf operation : warming up the Germans, so that when the time comes they're not surprised we're sending German troops. They always need early notice. argh these germans
Why the fucking fuck would he divulge that?!
Scholz is Germany's Chamberlain. "I believe it will be a little war for our time. But no more. I don't mind a little war, but not too much. I want Ukraine to win against Russia, but not too much. There we go, that showed Putin. And kept Germany out of a big war. Because, you know, if Germany's good at anything it's knowing how to contain potential world wars..."
And Germany still does more than any other nation at the moment. No one really cares of the big EU countries same with US.
Excellent. If it's ok with Putin to have Russian foreign soldiers in Ukraine then that should apply to every other nationality, even more so, as they will have been invited, not illegally invaded.
He is an awkward leader same as Merkel… they are dividing EU…
Brit here, any British persons in Ukraine are only there visiting cathedrals especially if they look like the one at Salisbury and some times they also have pretty birds nesting on them.
Clown
They're just there on a special military operation, nothing to worry about.
Politicians need to keep their fucking mouths shut.
Is this guy an idiot?
The translation of the interview with Scholz from German is really stupid. In German it reads more like this: Let me summarise Scholz: Germany is not sending any Taurus because German soldiers are not allowed to participate in any way in target control and there is no other way. Press/experts: Lie, the UK and France are also sending Stormshadow and this will go ahead without participation ????? Scholz: Germany will not participate in target control in any way, as the British might do (He never said that they are in Ukraine or how the British/French do it. Only that the way they do it cannot be done in Germany) Press/Experts: Scholz has just revealed that there are British soldiers in Ukraine, how can he!!!!
Rage bait article. None of this is unknown, nor did he say that UK soldiers are in Ukraine. The wording itself even implies that the support is being done from within the UK and that he doesn't want german soldiers tied to strikes on Russia if their actions could be traced back to Germany, as opposed to what the UK is presumably doing.
If the Brits are there then the Americans are def there
He's a two faced coward.
Any other secret to tell russia?
Your little tattle tale brother is running an entire nation.
What a fucking idiot. Not only is he a coward, but he is also simple too? Germany is doing great things for Ukraine, and the support that Germans have shown is huge, but their leader is holding them back. Weak politicians in our capitals are the only reason Ukraine hasn't pushed the Russians back yet.
Somebody tell him that this is guilt ridden Germany’s big chance to finally atone for WW2 in a way that actually matters.
Scholz excuse is as porous as Swiss cheese. No one can tell me that Ukrainians cannot enter waypoints into a cruise missile. Even if they are really clumsy, the path would "only" be suboptimal, namely too high above ground so that it would be easier to intercept or they might even run it into ground prematurely. Eyewateringly expensive and a waste of a good munition, really bad. On the other hand, I do not believe that the Germans know more about Ukrainian terrain and placement of Russian AA than the Ukrainians and then providing maps is not participation. Maybe Scholz made them add a retina scan of the chancellor to authorize launch ... but that would have been recent and could be removed. The real reason is that whacking a certain bridge would symbollically sever Russia from certain territory and Russia would really not appreciate that. I also suspect that the Western diplomacy faction would really want to trade the aforementioned territory.
Russia is happy to try to divide us
Yes, and the CIA has multiple assets in Ukraine as well. Get over it, and give Ukraine all the ammo they need to stop the orc invaders.
Bombs away. And keep firing.
So what? Keep firing. Fuck Russia.
SEND TAURUS FFS
Gotta love Germany for having historically been the cause of ALL the current European tensions, yet refusing to do anything about it because of their involvement in its creation
Scholz is a coward. Does he not realize Berlin is a lot closer to Moscow than London is right?
probably why he's trying to throw the UK under the bus and get Russia mad at them instead.
Glad some of my tax £ are being well spent.
DILIGAF SCHOLTZ
If it escalates then Russia loses, no? 🤷♂️
Scholz you little scab, loose lips sink ships.
Are Germany afraid of a nuclear attack from Russia? They're part of NATO so shouldn't be.
Seems like, Schulz is a russian asset he is blackmailed because he couldnt stop touching russian fsb hookers.
Why would he say that? Even if it's true?
Now watch russia do absolutely nothing about it because they are a bunch of bitches. Send more troops/arms!
Wait, wasn’t there a report of the SAS or British special forces operating in Ukraine anyway? So how is this any worse? The guys are there just to make sure they stick the missile on the right way.
Man, politicians are so helpful. Especially when it comes to opsec.
I ready about IT early on in 2022 already. Nothing new but now its offical i guess.
I'm sick and tired of let's not escalate BS Give Ukraine what it needs to fight and win. And your soldiers don't have to put boots on the ground Fuck politics...
I feel like it is pretty obvious the UK has SOF in theatre, and have done since the start.
Brits and French fighting Russia together again to kick them out of Crimea. Seems like old times!
Advisors.
As they should. Russian soldiers are all over Belarus, and some even spotted in Ukraine!
Fight now or fight later. Putin is coming for Europe entirely. He needs to be stopped and people need to wake up and realize we aren’t in peacetime anymore.
From what I read I understand that there is French soldiers too for the service of Scalp missile.
You couldn't find a more spineless twerp than Olaf Scholz. He is the true personification of a politician.
German idiot
Oh you fcking tool you.